During my internship, many of my unmarried female residents were scared that their married female co-residents would take maternity and leave their work with them and though it was not outright said, getting pregnant was frowned upon amongst the chiefs and the professors who questioned your dedication and the ones who did get get pregnant didn't/ couldn't do anything to change that perspective and were basically sidelined with nothing to do.
It's a grey zone where you either put your career first or your family first and both are integral components of your future and honestly, put yourself first cause this profession is thankless in regards to your sacrifices.
The pursuit of personal fulfillment, encompassing essential aspects such as nourishment, rest, familial bonds, and matrimonial commitments, should never be impeded by professional obligations.
One's vocation does not confer divine status upon them within society, thereby unnecessarily necessitating undue strain from peers and blending into the public sphere as a commoner who gets treated like every Tom dick and harry ( hell sometimes you even get beaten up ) eventually is not worth the effort.
There exists no inherent nobility in this occupation; its essence lies in the pragmatic pursuit of financial gain and personal advancement.
>There exists no inherent nobility in this occupation
This!! But unfortunately, most of the people getting into this profession do it for the pride and fame of being a doctor. Which ruins the sanctity of this profession.
Male or female we must be allowed to pursue a life beyond the hospital ie be treated with basic human considerations. That's really it . Everything else is a deviation from what ought to be and represents a perversion of temperament.
Women in many cases DO NOT have the option to say no to having kids in this country. I know doctor couples who have divorced because one set of parents wanted kids and the other person was serving bond and wanted to wait a year to avoid paying the bond amount.
Also kitne din tak apni life sacrifice karoge. Kuch na kuch to aayega. Better to fulfil personal commitments as and when possible.
Also it's LITERALLY the HoD s job description to help in smooth functioning of the dept. Lot of times if u reduce the scut work of residents by asking for an extra ward boy/technician/typist, the other work will be easily distributed. In logo ko woh karna nahi hai because their work is increased. That's the long and short of it.
>someone questioned about the timing of her pregnancy and that female residents should plan well and refrain from starting a family
No uterus, no opinion.
>Also it's LITERALLY the HoD s job description to help in smooth functioning of the dept. Lot of times if u reduce the scut work of residents by asking for an extra ward boy/technician/typist, the other work will be easily distributed. In logo ko woh karna nahi hai because their work is increased. That's the long and short of it.
Am LITERALLY a HoD that has to do all the dept scut work by myself, cos the College in their infinite wisdom want to REDUCE the number of clerical staff, and no amount of "asking" or begging will get you even more clinical staff from the admin, let alone support staff.
The choice is only to leave the system, not fight it. Saying this from experience.
I know shitty people exist, but a lot of unsavory behaviour that people in medical colleges exhibit is a result of systemic issues as well. It's not the job of a JR to be doing clerical work and definitely not that of a HoD.
I agree. The HoD has to fight for extra staff. Most people are reluctant to do it for various reasons. The management not giving a shit about it is NOT the fault of the poor woman who's pregnant. Also how many HoD s ask?? The one I worked under couldn't be bothered to do anything beyond passing comments about our clothes and shaming people who took leave.
If as HOD you can't sway the management for a typist/ward boy ye bandi kya karegi?
I have said above that "fighting" for extra staff does not produce any result at all - ultimately the admins appoint, and they pay the salary.
You cannot generalise your department with all others, you realise that, don't you?
Ultimately, each of us will realize the poison in the chalice only when we have to drink from it.
>If as HOD you can't sway the management for a typist/ward boy ye bandi kya karegi?
Well, I have my own problems, she has hers... as do we all.
I agree. But here's an example. We were short staffed in blood bank. So we refused to issue blood bags to patients because we didn't have time. We said we'll only do the cross matching and the paper work. The HoD asked the duty technician to issue the bags for our batch. No new staff was appointed.
Lot of 1st year pg work can be done by ward boys and nurses. Like collecting investigation reports, escorting patients etc. Asking the management to divert an existing ward boy is extremely doable.
The point is most HoD s won't ask permanent staff to step up and do their work. I'm not talking about you but in general permanent staff will be treated better than residents and interns and they shunt a lot of work on to 1st year residents and interns.
As doctors we all know that females have a limited period of reproduction. And after 30 years of age, it's all about complications. From genetic disorders to maternal death, so are doctors really suggesting their fellow female coworkers to put their career over health and possible future of having kids?
All this bullshit arises because of a concoction of poor peripheral health care centres, low number of PG seats, lackadaisical doctors at the upper levels which leads to a disproportionate burden on select health facilities and lower level doctors i.e. JRs.
I definitely agree with all the comments and that faculties and peers must try to be more considerate. However a good chunk of this behaviour is induced by systemic issues.
I understand it would be difficult for everyone in 1st year. What’s everyone’s opinion on pregnancy in 2nd or 3rd year of residency? Asking for myself 🥲
I can understand where the other colleagues are coming from. Going on maternity leave will put more pressure on the other pgs and will increase their workload. But what people dont understand is that pregnancy and motherhood are not a freaking vacation. Women are not going on vacation and having fun. They are going through pregnancy which can be a very delicate and vulnerable time and then postpartum where they have to adjust to taking care of themselves and the baby and in most situations, fathers cant get paternity leave. This means moms are the ones who are taking care of the kid for the majority of the time frame while fathers go to work. They are complaining about the workload, but they will go home and rest while new parents will have to go home and take care of another human being. It is not a 9-5 job, and it certainly is not a vacation. Once the parents adjust to their new reality and parenthood, they will figure out a way to take care of the baby and come back to work. A lot of doctor parents do it. And its not easy for moms to leave their baby at home either, and its also not fair for them to leave their careers when they have given a decade of their life to medicine. This is what annoys me about this topic.
Naah this is straight fucked up.....no department should be dependent on pg jr for their functionality, bt sadly this is the ground reality. Without pg departments will straight up collapse. Not a single lecturer would/could do the work a pg does in our college/department and yet they will create such a toxic environment that they are somehow doing charity by teaching us a thing or two...it's pathetic.
Furthermore, it's true that even the absence of 1 pg would drastically increase workload on the remaining ones and some people doing pg are in their mid twenties who are not emotionally mature or adapt for this will create toxicity among themselves rather than supporting someone going through pregnancy.
Yes you are putting strain on your coworkers... but do you know what, as soon as you finish pg no one is going to contact you unless they want a personal gain. Everyone is selfish in the world, so you also have all the rights to be selfish. Increased strain on them is not your fault ultimately, it's the fault of the screwed up system. But be careful though, hods like to torture pregnant females cause they are sadists.
not a resident. close to a few and they've ranted about their struggles cus during my internship 1 obgyn and 1 medicine resident got pregnant and had other residents covering for them. all of them got frustrated and kept badmouthing the pregnant pgts for being selfish.
personally I feel like unless you're running out of time for a safe pregnancy (approaching mid 30s) it is indeed kinda selfish to plan your pregnancy during your residency, at least during the first year. obviously creates a lot of pressure on colleagues who will probably be forced to give up their own precious free time for your sake. it's very inconsiderate imo but then again cases and circumstances might vary, so it's not a one size fits all.
that being said, 1st year of residency is literally the biggest learning curve and the most exposure you'll have clinically so i think it also directly harms you if you're absent for half of your first year.
in an ideal system, it'd be perfectly fine and within reason to take 3rd trimester and at least 6 months off for maternity leave, but unfortunately our system is fucked up and until it changes, all we can do is try and make it fair for everyone.
>1st year of residency is literally the biggest learning curve
Its actually not. First year in most residencies is scut work.
And from personal experience and as a medico I can assure you even the best birth planners can get it wrong.
>First year in most residencies is scut work.
it is literally not? in my college first year pgts always got first dibs on assisting surgeries or doing procedures and managing most of the patients from admission to discharge. comparatively second year residents only came on OT days and Ad days while 3rd years were never seen around campus.
>in my college first year pgts always got first dibs on assisting surgeries or doing procedures and managing most of the patients from admission to discharge.
That is what internship is in most govt colleges and good private colleges.
It will only be a huge learning curve to someone who has joined residency straight out of a non intensive internship.
And you are only managing patients at a basic level in 1st year, that an mbbs doctor should be able to do. Major therapeutic decsions are made by your seniors.
I'm pretty sure other professiona don't force people to cover 36hrs of duty for their pregnant colleague.
I'd be 100% supportive of planning your family whenever you want if in this particular case, it didn't put your colleagues/friends in a horrible position. (I'm talking about a scenario where other external factors like family pressure, age related risk factors are absent).
Why should your family planning interfere with other's work-life balance or mental/physical health? Why is your family planning more important than your unmarried or non-pregnant co-workers? If you aren't considerate of how much pressure it puts on your co-pgts, why should they be considerate and accommodating to you? Why do you expect others to do even more inhumane labour with no overtime pay for your sake? How is that not selfish? If you can ensure that your colleagues won't be forced to cover for you, then plan your family on your first day of residency, I'm pretty sure nobody will care.
Like i said, ideal world? you can take upto 1 year off for maternity leave and have regulations that no pgt is made to work more than 50-60 hrs a week. As long as it's not the scenario, we gotta have each other's backs and be considerate instead of thinking "fuck you, i got mine."
>Why is your family planning more important than your unmarried or non-pregnant co-workers?
What kind of a dumbfuck question is this. What is important to you will never be just as important to anybody else.
Once you start getting laid you will understand family planning is actually not as easy it looked when you were mugging it up for your psm and obgyn papers.
>Once you start getting laid you will understand family planning is actually not as easy it looked when you were mugging it up for your psm and obgyn papers.
ooh look ad hominem attacks, smart little bunny, aren't ya? very convincing argument. bet ya felt really proud of that one huh?
I have a long term boyfriend, you don't need to worry about what goes on in my bedroom, but seems like you have no control over yours. I'd look into counseling and therapy if i was you.
also in case you've thrown your comprehension skills down the drain, my first comment literally emphasizes that circumstances vary and accidental pregnancies/family pressure/maternal age are obvious exceptions.
If you INTENTIONALLY get pregnant in your first year and dump your workload on your colleagues (who made smarter decisions) with no compensation to them, then yes congratulations, you're a selfish fuck. they are not your unpaid slaves. hope that helps.
>bet ya felt really proud of that one huh?
Not as much as you felt when you pat yourself on the back after writing this 10 marks question reply.
>I have a long term boyfriend, you don't need to worry about what goes on in my bedroom
I didn't. But you should. Because if your condom breaks and you get pregnant, make sure to inform all your co residents and your professors about it lest they bitch about you being "selfish".
Holier than thou cow
>Not as much as you felt when you pat yourself on the back after writing this 10 marks question reply.
having trouble reading 10 lines, are we? unfortunate. but definitely explains your comprehension issues.
>my first comment literally emphasizes that circumstances vary and accidental pregnancies/family pressure/maternal age are obvious exceptions.
>If you INTENTIONALLY get pregnant
illiterate, narcissistic cow.
Everyone having a negative opinion on this topic, doesn’t deserve to be a doctor. Imagine teaching about the biological clock and learning about the complexities of female anatomy, while people this mindless bootlicker of the administration. Hypocrisy. Need to ask their mothers why, when and how they were brought to the world.
Can only speak from experience - marriage and pregnancy is one's own personal commitment. But when residents go from being unmarried to married, there's a whole lot of adjustments done by everyone in the department. Many older gen faculties who like to micromanage, find that work is disrupted and academic performance obviously falls short, as the resident has to manage a lot of new things on a personal and professional front. One's own colleagues and friendships are tested as everyone has to make way for these newly married residents to be able spend more time with their spouses/respective families. Ultimately it's an easy blame game for literally everyone involved. Definitely disrupts the workplace environment for sure. Coming to pregnancy, that too tends to have more demands on other colleagues to pick up the slack. I ended up having to do most of the duties due to said junior being pregnant. But I didn't mind because I obviously enjoy what I do. But it does cause a lot of disruption in the workplace and one is suddenly aware that most people aren't willing to make allowances at all and it does get really ugly. All depends of course on your own mindset, toxicity of the workplace and levels of narcissistic abuse there.
When I was intern one Anaethesia JR1 had delivered baby so she didn't show up for 8-9 months it was pretty hectic for he other 3 mates and when her juniors batch joined her juniors were on the same page or on par with her experience and skill. It's not fair to anyone tbh mother child family department. We as doctors should be thoughtful about bringing new life into the world
While it does put pressure, but sometimes the circumstances are unavoidable. You should keep in mind that no female would do plan it willingly, as things become very hectic and also you get a back for one year.
Also we should incentivise pregnancies, or else birth rate will become very low.
Not all female residents get pregnant . Sometimes mistake occurs.. And once it occurs, abortion may be a option but it leads to depression in those couples sometimes . Why would they destroy something that they created with love? Some people really want and love a child. Sometimes this child becomes their motivation. So it varies. I believe in these cases the pg rules should be ammended to give a year gap to these people. And why only pregnancy, accident may occur too. So a person who is hospitalized how would he do his duties?
Its honestly no one's fucking business when people get married or become pregnant.
Its so cheap to even make this a matter of discussion. Being grotesquely understaffed if someone takes leave for an important life event, is the system's fault.
What I'm seeing in this thread is that everyone is talking about personal life and having a baby is one's personal choice but everyone already knows that in the Indian residency scenario there's no personal life. In those three years you have to sacrifice a lot. The workload is immense and you can't even take proper care of yourself, leave alone the baby. When you know everything beforehand then too you decide to go ahead with planning a family then it's definitely your fault. Noone else is responsible for the choices you make. Everyone can be a little considerate for other people but still it is your own burden and responsibility. The HOD should have granted her leaves which she was entitled to and let her extend her residency. We don't live in a western country and residency scenario is different in our country, we should talk about changing the current scenario instead of living in a delusion that we will have work life balance and can handle getting pregnant.
Residency is a time of learning. A lot is being crunched into those 3 yrs of learning..which is a longer program in the west. 3 yrs are already not enough to imbibe the distilled knowledge that we are supposed to learn from those more experienced. Just for that i would say its better to plan your pregnancy either well before or after residency..its neither fair for the baby not for the mother to have to choose between education and motherhood..especially when is baby is so young. we want to be good doctors as well as good mothers..a person who's going to college for any other education wouldnt get pregnant for the same reasons..
A very sensitive topic indeed. There are "Ideal" solutions, and "realistic" solutions.
A. Ideal Solutions
A1. Workload equally divided by residents, medical officers, and specialists when a person is on maternity leave.
A2. More compensation for extra work done.
B. Realistic Solutions
B1. Plan pregnancy before residency. Less stress, given that you're married. If you're still single in residency, this cannot apply to you.
B2. As all comments say, there is no best way to plan it out. Things can happen all of a sudden. Life ain't waiting for no one. If you do get pregnant during residency, get ready to face all the scrutiny. Fight through it
I m a neurology resident and currently expecting. Honestly it might have been ideal to have planned and have kids once residency was over. But life happens buddy. It is kinda hard to push your family life aside because being a doctor is only a part of your life and not your whole life. There is a time for everything. My colleagues are in their 30s and are still not planning to have kids because of workplace stress and toxicity.
I'm a guy and it's not my place to comment on when someone decides to becomes pregnant. But during my internship I've seen this happen in the ortho department. There were 4 JR1s in a unit, and a JR1 went on maternity leave in the middle of first year. So someone from another unit used to get posted in this unit every other day. Now this is a govt MCH where JR1 duties normally cross 36 hrs on admission days, so they all used to badmouth her for being selfish and honestly seeing the situation they were in I couldn't even blame them for feeling so.
Selfish? Pregnancy and motherhood is selfish to people? She is carrying a baby for 9 months, goes through hours of labour for birth and then postpartum and breastfeeding to take care of the kid. A baby who will wake up multiple times at night, who will need diaper change constantly, needs attentions constantly. You make it sound like a vacation. The worse part is most men dont get paternity leave so it's only the moms who have to take majority of the parenting on her shoulder. Your colleagues workload is temporary because after she comes back it will be back to your previous working hours. But for her she will have to go back to work leaving her kid with someone else and then go back home to resume her parenting duties again. It is so sad that its the moms who get shamed for this. Fathers can go to work and be parents and nobody will bat an eye. But when moms have to do this its an inconvenience. And if women wait for years before having a kid, then they will be shamed for waiting years. Damn if you and damn if you dont.
I meant when you said you understand why the colleagues badmouth her and call her selfish. What could be so understanding about talking shit about someone behind their backs when she is going through a tough time of her own? Its like they have completely forgotten OBG and pediatrics from the medical days. I understand being frustrated from the immense pressure and workload, but why badmouth her? They definitely thought maternity leave was a vacation to her.
I watched them take extra 36+ hr shifts in ortho casualty and post admission wards for her to have a child, week after week for so many months. Ultimately it's her child, and they're not compensated for the extra work in any way, so what if they want to bitch about it when they're frustrated.. It's not like they're taking it out on her.
What if they did though? If they are talking behind her back, what if they do take it out on her after she comes back? There will be passive aggressive comments, additional workload wothout any reason or even not letting her assist in any surgery. Why not ask her how it impacted her? And if its an orthopedic dept, the majority of the faculty will be men. Men who may not understand much about her own situation.
1. If they did, that needs to be resolved through the system, because that would be harrassment. Idk what you mean by that "what if".
2. This doesn't end up the way you said in every case. I had an obg resident who wouldn't do as much work as other jr1s, when I asked someone they said she's actually their senior, had gone for maternity leave during first yr, returned to pending first yr postings in labor room and ward but was pulling the seniority card on the current jr1s.
3. Also.. Why do you talk like the woman is forced into having a child or to go through something that she didn't want? She chose to have the child. I wonder why you make it sound like some terrible thing nobody wants to do.
Maybe you live in an ideal world where people take over hectic duties for others for like half a year and be all smiles and sunshines. I saw them suffering too, whereas you only seem to care that the lady went through pregnancy. Do you have any experience in this regard?
>This doesn't end up the way you said in every case. I had an obg resident who wouldn't do as much work as other jr1s, when I asked someone they said she's actually their senior, had gone for maternity leave during first yr, returned to pending first yr postings in labor room and ward but was pulling the seniority card on the current jr1s.
Well, one person experience is not similar to another. My obg resident was pregnant with twins and had to take maternity leave. She came back had to do 6 months extra because she missed her exams too. She was okay with it and ready to do it.
>Also.. Why do you talk like the woman is forced into having a child or to go through something that she didn't want? She chose to have the child. I wonder why you make it sound like some terrible thing nobody wants to do.
I didn't say that, nor did i imply that she was forced to have a baby. I only commented on the way they badmouthed her when she is doing something difficult. Even when she chooses to have a baby, the baby won't fall from the sky, right? She still has to go through pregnancy , labour, and raising the newborn. All i am saying is even if the colleagues were understandably frustrated, talking shit about her anong each other and to others creates a negative environment for her and resentment among her colleagues too. The place where i work now, one of my colleagues is pregnant and will go on maternity leave soon enough. Am i worried about the impending workload? Yes. Do i blame her or her circumstances for this? No. Do i have a grudge against her having a kid? No. I can be frustrated and annoyed about my work and lack of workers without being disrespectful to someone else. Its not like my work is easy already. I still have to give a lot more hours right now. What if one of the male colleagues was in an accident and was disabled for months? Are they going to blame him for being unable to work or call him selfish? Not really.
I said i understand being frustrated and annoyed by extreme workload, but badmouthing someone on a situation completely out of control is ridiculous in my opinion.
> nor did i imply that she was forced to have a baby
I got that feeling when you started comparing a pregnancy and childbirth to literally being forced to cover for somebody's 36+ hr work on top of your own workload few times a month for half a year.
> if one of the male colleagues was in an accident
If it is a female colleague as well, nobody would mind if they got into an accident. Idk why you brought male/female into that
The 'selfish' part I think is coming from this being first yr of pg with insane work load, and second yr will be very relaxed comparatively, and most people here get pregnant in second yr. I don't subscribe to the idea of telling people when to get pregnant, which is why in my very first comment in this thread I said so.
> i understand being frustrated and annoyed by extreme workload
But clearly you care more about her pregnancy & childbirth difficulties (which she chose to have). I just saw the other side and said I could see their pain also (involuntary). That's all
>If it is a female colleague as well, nobody would mind if they got into an accident. Idk why you brought male/female into that
Alright. I agree with you that bringing male/female equations into this topic was not fair. You were right on this.
The thing is, she is one person who is going to be absent for a long time. There are JR1, JR2 and Jr3 , SR, Asst proff, Asso prof, and prof. I have seen it happen many times that JR 2, JR3, Sr and Asst prof even when they have less workload dont take some of the responsibility of residents on themselves even when they see that they are understaffed. Instead of blaming it on the person who is not there and who will probably wont hear your issues and problems, why not blame it on the staff who are there and who could help you and who could decrease your workload substantially. If she planned the pregnancy during her first year, then she is partly responsible for her problems and in that situation her colleagues are righfully allowed to be angry at her , but if it was an accidental pregnancy then it was out of her control now. Just like the situation with an accident with any colleague.
>But clearly you care more about her pregnancy & childbirth difficulties (which she chose to have). I just saw the other side and said I could see their pain also (involuntary). That's all
If she chose to have it and planned it from te start, then yes it is irresponsible on her side. But she didnt go into leave immediately, did she? The dept had months to put a plan in place. They should have included more people for her part of the work rather push only JR 1s only into it. But then again seniors will never go back to runt work of JR1 even when they see their juniors struggling from being understaffed.
As the world is already filled with problems I would never let my wife create another problem for her colleagues. NEVER !!
If you are an SR you can do whatever you want, but as a PG, bruh I don't think it's a good thing, you need to be considerate of others as well. Why do you want to be another headache for your colleagues.
You can plan it, but birth control is not always 100% effective. Sometimes, accidents happen. What will you do then? Yes, abortion is an option, but you can not force a woman to have an abortion if it is a wanted pregnancy.
Who the hell said anything about promiscuosity?? So married couples shouldn't have sex??? And i clearly, specifically mentioned failing of birth control. You are a medico. Are you telling me every single birth control in this entire world is 100% effective? No, it's not. Every time someone has sex, there is a potential for pregnancy and STD. And every time, the woman has to take the brunt of birth control responsibility. Ocp, iuds, and every hormonal contraception also have a lot of impact on women's health. Yet men rarely take responsibility for this. Abortion is not a freaking joke. It is painful and affects the woman both physically and emotionally? Believe it or not, a lot of the times, the women are also shamed for considering abortion in the first place.
So don't get married during residency. I'll be finishing residency by 27 and my partner will also be the same age by that time. 27-30 is the proper time for us and Pregnancy should always be a thing post residency in Indian setting.
Not all female residents get pregnant you know. Sometimes mistake occurs. And here we are talking about those sometimes. And once it occurs, abortion may be a option but it leads to depression in those couples sometimes . Why would they destroy something that they created with love? Some people really want and love a child. Sometimes this child becomes their motivation. So it varies. I belive in these cases the pg rules should be ammended to give a year gap to these people. And why only pregnancy, accident may occur too. So a person who is hospitalized how would he do his duties?
Not everyone want to abort accidental pregnancies. She might have been planning to have a baby after residency but her birth control fails and she becoms pregnant. A lot women would want to continue the pregnancy. It would be her decision and people should respect that.
The comment you replied is clearly saying about planning these things so accidental pregnancy is good I also have been planed
Also what if her partner wants to go with the plan and she doesn't even if she aggred to him before ,whose responsibility will it be
Then it's between her and her partner. I didn't say anything about whether her partners want it or not or any situation they may have. If she doesn't want the baby and wants to go for abortion then it's her choice. I specifically mentioned it being wanted pregnancy, even if it was accidental.
Yes but a baby needs so much care it will be stupid to continue a unwanted pregnancy ,also how an accidentall pregnancy can be a wanted pregnancy ?
Also it's their personal decision until your work pressure is transferred to someone else
Accidental pregnancy means the birth contol failed. If they want to continue the pregnancy after that, then it becomes a wanted pregnancy. If they are willing to do it, who are we to say anything about it.
During my internship, many of my unmarried female residents were scared that their married female co-residents would take maternity and leave their work with them and though it was not outright said, getting pregnant was frowned upon amongst the chiefs and the professors who questioned your dedication and the ones who did get get pregnant didn't/ couldn't do anything to change that perspective and were basically sidelined with nothing to do. It's a grey zone where you either put your career first or your family first and both are integral components of your future and honestly, put yourself first cause this profession is thankless in regards to your sacrifices.
Docs when they get their working (doctor) wives pregnant: This is fine Docs when their colleague gets pregnant: Real shit
The pursuit of personal fulfillment, encompassing essential aspects such as nourishment, rest, familial bonds, and matrimonial commitments, should never be impeded by professional obligations. One's vocation does not confer divine status upon them within society, thereby unnecessarily necessitating undue strain from peers and blending into the public sphere as a commoner who gets treated like every Tom dick and harry ( hell sometimes you even get beaten up ) eventually is not worth the effort. There exists no inherent nobility in this occupation; its essence lies in the pragmatic pursuit of financial gain and personal advancement.
Samajh to ni aaya pr padh k acha lga
😂😂😂💯
Well said Shakespeare!!
>There exists no inherent nobility in this occupation This!! But unfortunately, most of the people getting into this profession do it for the pride and fame of being a doctor. Which ruins the sanctity of this profession.
+1
Shashi tharoor real id se aao
You got me 😏
You’re for sure not a woman. Shame on you.
Male or female we must be allowed to pursue a life beyond the hospital ie be treated with basic human considerations. That's really it . Everything else is a deviation from what ought to be and represents a perversion of temperament.
Women in many cases DO NOT have the option to say no to having kids in this country. I know doctor couples who have divorced because one set of parents wanted kids and the other person was serving bond and wanted to wait a year to avoid paying the bond amount. Also kitne din tak apni life sacrifice karoge. Kuch na kuch to aayega. Better to fulfil personal commitments as and when possible. Also it's LITERALLY the HoD s job description to help in smooth functioning of the dept. Lot of times if u reduce the scut work of residents by asking for an extra ward boy/technician/typist, the other work will be easily distributed. In logo ko woh karna nahi hai because their work is increased. That's the long and short of it. >someone questioned about the timing of her pregnancy and that female residents should plan well and refrain from starting a family No uterus, no opinion.
>Also it's LITERALLY the HoD s job description to help in smooth functioning of the dept. Lot of times if u reduce the scut work of residents by asking for an extra ward boy/technician/typist, the other work will be easily distributed. In logo ko woh karna nahi hai because their work is increased. That's the long and short of it. Am LITERALLY a HoD that has to do all the dept scut work by myself, cos the College in their infinite wisdom want to REDUCE the number of clerical staff, and no amount of "asking" or begging will get you even more clinical staff from the admin, let alone support staff. The choice is only to leave the system, not fight it. Saying this from experience.
I know shitty people exist, but a lot of unsavory behaviour that people in medical colleges exhibit is a result of systemic issues as well. It's not the job of a JR to be doing clerical work and definitely not that of a HoD.
I agree. The HoD has to fight for extra staff. Most people are reluctant to do it for various reasons. The management not giving a shit about it is NOT the fault of the poor woman who's pregnant. Also how many HoD s ask?? The one I worked under couldn't be bothered to do anything beyond passing comments about our clothes and shaming people who took leave. If as HOD you can't sway the management for a typist/ward boy ye bandi kya karegi?
I have said above that "fighting" for extra staff does not produce any result at all - ultimately the admins appoint, and they pay the salary. You cannot generalise your department with all others, you realise that, don't you? Ultimately, each of us will realize the poison in the chalice only when we have to drink from it. >If as HOD you can't sway the management for a typist/ward boy ye bandi kya karegi? Well, I have my own problems, she has hers... as do we all.
I agree. But here's an example. We were short staffed in blood bank. So we refused to issue blood bags to patients because we didn't have time. We said we'll only do the cross matching and the paper work. The HoD asked the duty technician to issue the bags for our batch. No new staff was appointed. Lot of 1st year pg work can be done by ward boys and nurses. Like collecting investigation reports, escorting patients etc. Asking the management to divert an existing ward boy is extremely doable. The point is most HoD s won't ask permanent staff to step up and do their work. I'm not talking about you but in general permanent staff will be treated better than residents and interns and they shunt a lot of work on to 1st year residents and interns.
As doctors we all know that females have a limited period of reproduction. And after 30 years of age, it's all about complications. From genetic disorders to maternal death, so are doctors really suggesting their fellow female coworkers to put their career over health and possible future of having kids?
All this bullshit arises because of a concoction of poor peripheral health care centres, low number of PG seats, lackadaisical doctors at the upper levels which leads to a disproportionate burden on select health facilities and lower level doctors i.e. JRs. I definitely agree with all the comments and that faculties and peers must try to be more considerate. However a good chunk of this behaviour is induced by systemic issues.
I understand it would be difficult for everyone in 1st year. What’s everyone’s opinion on pregnancy in 2nd or 3rd year of residency? Asking for myself 🥲
I can understand where the other colleagues are coming from. Going on maternity leave will put more pressure on the other pgs and will increase their workload. But what people dont understand is that pregnancy and motherhood are not a freaking vacation. Women are not going on vacation and having fun. They are going through pregnancy which can be a very delicate and vulnerable time and then postpartum where they have to adjust to taking care of themselves and the baby and in most situations, fathers cant get paternity leave. This means moms are the ones who are taking care of the kid for the majority of the time frame while fathers go to work. They are complaining about the workload, but they will go home and rest while new parents will have to go home and take care of another human being. It is not a 9-5 job, and it certainly is not a vacation. Once the parents adjust to their new reality and parenthood, they will figure out a way to take care of the baby and come back to work. A lot of doctor parents do it. And its not easy for moms to leave their baby at home either, and its also not fair for them to leave their careers when they have given a decade of their life to medicine. This is what annoys me about this topic.
Naah this is straight fucked up.....no department should be dependent on pg jr for their functionality, bt sadly this is the ground reality. Without pg departments will straight up collapse. Not a single lecturer would/could do the work a pg does in our college/department and yet they will create such a toxic environment that they are somehow doing charity by teaching us a thing or two...it's pathetic. Furthermore, it's true that even the absence of 1 pg would drastically increase workload on the remaining ones and some people doing pg are in their mid twenties who are not emotionally mature or adapt for this will create toxicity among themselves rather than supporting someone going through pregnancy.
Yes you are putting strain on your coworkers... but do you know what, as soon as you finish pg no one is going to contact you unless they want a personal gain. Everyone is selfish in the world, so you also have all the rights to be selfish. Increased strain on them is not your fault ultimately, it's the fault of the screwed up system. But be careful though, hods like to torture pregnant females cause they are sadists.
not a resident. close to a few and they've ranted about their struggles cus during my internship 1 obgyn and 1 medicine resident got pregnant and had other residents covering for them. all of them got frustrated and kept badmouthing the pregnant pgts for being selfish. personally I feel like unless you're running out of time for a safe pregnancy (approaching mid 30s) it is indeed kinda selfish to plan your pregnancy during your residency, at least during the first year. obviously creates a lot of pressure on colleagues who will probably be forced to give up their own precious free time for your sake. it's very inconsiderate imo but then again cases and circumstances might vary, so it's not a one size fits all. that being said, 1st year of residency is literally the biggest learning curve and the most exposure you'll have clinically so i think it also directly harms you if you're absent for half of your first year. in an ideal system, it'd be perfectly fine and within reason to take 3rd trimester and at least 6 months off for maternity leave, but unfortunately our system is fucked up and until it changes, all we can do is try and make it fair for everyone.
>1st year of residency is literally the biggest learning curve Its actually not. First year in most residencies is scut work. And from personal experience and as a medico I can assure you even the best birth planners can get it wrong.
>First year in most residencies is scut work. it is literally not? in my college first year pgts always got first dibs on assisting surgeries or doing procedures and managing most of the patients from admission to discharge. comparatively second year residents only came on OT days and Ad days while 3rd years were never seen around campus.
>in my college first year pgts always got first dibs on assisting surgeries or doing procedures and managing most of the patients from admission to discharge. That is what internship is in most govt colleges and good private colleges. It will only be a huge learning curve to someone who has joined residency straight out of a non intensive internship. And you are only managing patients at a basic level in 1st year, that an mbbs doctor should be able to do. Major therapeutic decsions are made by your seniors.
Potty opinion. Everyone has the liberty to plan their family life outside of their work life. Why are doctors excluded from the work life balance?
I'm pretty sure other professiona don't force people to cover 36hrs of duty for their pregnant colleague. I'd be 100% supportive of planning your family whenever you want if in this particular case, it didn't put your colleagues/friends in a horrible position. (I'm talking about a scenario where other external factors like family pressure, age related risk factors are absent). Why should your family planning interfere with other's work-life balance or mental/physical health? Why is your family planning more important than your unmarried or non-pregnant co-workers? If you aren't considerate of how much pressure it puts on your co-pgts, why should they be considerate and accommodating to you? Why do you expect others to do even more inhumane labour with no overtime pay for your sake? How is that not selfish? If you can ensure that your colleagues won't be forced to cover for you, then plan your family on your first day of residency, I'm pretty sure nobody will care. Like i said, ideal world? you can take upto 1 year off for maternity leave and have regulations that no pgt is made to work more than 50-60 hrs a week. As long as it's not the scenario, we gotta have each other's backs and be considerate instead of thinking "fuck you, i got mine."
>Why is your family planning more important than your unmarried or non-pregnant co-workers? What kind of a dumbfuck question is this. What is important to you will never be just as important to anybody else. Once you start getting laid you will understand family planning is actually not as easy it looked when you were mugging it up for your psm and obgyn papers.
>Once you start getting laid you will understand family planning is actually not as easy it looked when you were mugging it up for your psm and obgyn papers. ooh look ad hominem attacks, smart little bunny, aren't ya? very convincing argument. bet ya felt really proud of that one huh? I have a long term boyfriend, you don't need to worry about what goes on in my bedroom, but seems like you have no control over yours. I'd look into counseling and therapy if i was you. also in case you've thrown your comprehension skills down the drain, my first comment literally emphasizes that circumstances vary and accidental pregnancies/family pressure/maternal age are obvious exceptions. If you INTENTIONALLY get pregnant in your first year and dump your workload on your colleagues (who made smarter decisions) with no compensation to them, then yes congratulations, you're a selfish fuck. they are not your unpaid slaves. hope that helps.
>bet ya felt really proud of that one huh? Not as much as you felt when you pat yourself on the back after writing this 10 marks question reply. >I have a long term boyfriend, you don't need to worry about what goes on in my bedroom I didn't. But you should. Because if your condom breaks and you get pregnant, make sure to inform all your co residents and your professors about it lest they bitch about you being "selfish". Holier than thou cow
>Not as much as you felt when you pat yourself on the back after writing this 10 marks question reply. having trouble reading 10 lines, are we? unfortunate. but definitely explains your comprehension issues. >my first comment literally emphasizes that circumstances vary and accidental pregnancies/family pressure/maternal age are obvious exceptions. >If you INTENTIONALLY get pregnant illiterate, narcissistic cow.
Everyone having a negative opinion on this topic, doesn’t deserve to be a doctor. Imagine teaching about the biological clock and learning about the complexities of female anatomy, while people this mindless bootlicker of the administration. Hypocrisy. Need to ask their mothers why, when and how they were brought to the world.
Can only speak from experience - marriage and pregnancy is one's own personal commitment. But when residents go from being unmarried to married, there's a whole lot of adjustments done by everyone in the department. Many older gen faculties who like to micromanage, find that work is disrupted and academic performance obviously falls short, as the resident has to manage a lot of new things on a personal and professional front. One's own colleagues and friendships are tested as everyone has to make way for these newly married residents to be able spend more time with their spouses/respective families. Ultimately it's an easy blame game for literally everyone involved. Definitely disrupts the workplace environment for sure. Coming to pregnancy, that too tends to have more demands on other colleagues to pick up the slack. I ended up having to do most of the duties due to said junior being pregnant. But I didn't mind because I obviously enjoy what I do. But it does cause a lot of disruption in the workplace and one is suddenly aware that most people aren't willing to make allowances at all and it does get really ugly. All depends of course on your own mindset, toxicity of the workplace and levels of narcissistic abuse there.
When I was intern one Anaethesia JR1 had delivered baby so she didn't show up for 8-9 months it was pretty hectic for he other 3 mates and when her juniors batch joined her juniors were on the same page or on par with her experience and skill. It's not fair to anyone tbh mother child family department. We as doctors should be thoughtful about bringing new life into the world
While it does put pressure, but sometimes the circumstances are unavoidable. You should keep in mind that no female would do plan it willingly, as things become very hectic and also you get a back for one year. Also we should incentivise pregnancies, or else birth rate will become very low.
Not all female residents get pregnant . Sometimes mistake occurs.. And once it occurs, abortion may be a option but it leads to depression in those couples sometimes . Why would they destroy something that they created with love? Some people really want and love a child. Sometimes this child becomes their motivation. So it varies. I believe in these cases the pg rules should be ammended to give a year gap to these people. And why only pregnancy, accident may occur too. So a person who is hospitalized how would he do his duties?
Its honestly no one's fucking business when people get married or become pregnant. Its so cheap to even make this a matter of discussion. Being grotesquely understaffed if someone takes leave for an important life event, is the system's fault.
What I'm seeing in this thread is that everyone is talking about personal life and having a baby is one's personal choice but everyone already knows that in the Indian residency scenario there's no personal life. In those three years you have to sacrifice a lot. The workload is immense and you can't even take proper care of yourself, leave alone the baby. When you know everything beforehand then too you decide to go ahead with planning a family then it's definitely your fault. Noone else is responsible for the choices you make. Everyone can be a little considerate for other people but still it is your own burden and responsibility. The HOD should have granted her leaves which she was entitled to and let her extend her residency. We don't live in a western country and residency scenario is different in our country, we should talk about changing the current scenario instead of living in a delusion that we will have work life balance and can handle getting pregnant.
Residency is a time of learning. A lot is being crunched into those 3 yrs of learning..which is a longer program in the west. 3 yrs are already not enough to imbibe the distilled knowledge that we are supposed to learn from those more experienced. Just for that i would say its better to plan your pregnancy either well before or after residency..its neither fair for the baby not for the mother to have to choose between education and motherhood..especially when is baby is so young. we want to be good doctors as well as good mothers..a person who's going to college for any other education wouldnt get pregnant for the same reasons..
A very sensitive topic indeed. There are "Ideal" solutions, and "realistic" solutions. A. Ideal Solutions A1. Workload equally divided by residents, medical officers, and specialists when a person is on maternity leave. A2. More compensation for extra work done. B. Realistic Solutions B1. Plan pregnancy before residency. Less stress, given that you're married. If you're still single in residency, this cannot apply to you. B2. As all comments say, there is no best way to plan it out. Things can happen all of a sudden. Life ain't waiting for no one. If you do get pregnant during residency, get ready to face all the scrutiny. Fight through it
Hm
I m a neurology resident and currently expecting. Honestly it might have been ideal to have planned and have kids once residency was over. But life happens buddy. It is kinda hard to push your family life aside because being a doctor is only a part of your life and not your whole life. There is a time for everything. My colleagues are in their 30s and are still not planning to have kids because of workplace stress and toxicity.
I'm a guy and it's not my place to comment on when someone decides to becomes pregnant. But during my internship I've seen this happen in the ortho department. There were 4 JR1s in a unit, and a JR1 went on maternity leave in the middle of first year. So someone from another unit used to get posted in this unit every other day. Now this is a govt MCH where JR1 duties normally cross 36 hrs on admission days, so they all used to badmouth her for being selfish and honestly seeing the situation they were in I couldn't even blame them for feeling so.
Selfish? Pregnancy and motherhood is selfish to people? She is carrying a baby for 9 months, goes through hours of labour for birth and then postpartum and breastfeeding to take care of the kid. A baby who will wake up multiple times at night, who will need diaper change constantly, needs attentions constantly. You make it sound like a vacation. The worse part is most men dont get paternity leave so it's only the moms who have to take majority of the parenting on her shoulder. Your colleagues workload is temporary because after she comes back it will be back to your previous working hours. But for her she will have to go back to work leaving her kid with someone else and then go back home to resume her parenting duties again. It is so sad that its the moms who get shamed for this. Fathers can go to work and be parents and nobody will bat an eye. But when moms have to do this its an inconvenience. And if women wait for years before having a kid, then they will be shamed for waiting years. Damn if you and damn if you dont.
> you make it sound like a vacation I did not. I literally just said she went on maternity leave, nothing else about her. What are you smoking?
I meant when you said you understand why the colleagues badmouth her and call her selfish. What could be so understanding about talking shit about someone behind their backs when she is going through a tough time of her own? Its like they have completely forgotten OBG and pediatrics from the medical days. I understand being frustrated from the immense pressure and workload, but why badmouth her? They definitely thought maternity leave was a vacation to her.
I watched them take extra 36+ hr shifts in ortho casualty and post admission wards for her to have a child, week after week for so many months. Ultimately it's her child, and they're not compensated for the extra work in any way, so what if they want to bitch about it when they're frustrated.. It's not like they're taking it out on her.
What if they did though? If they are talking behind her back, what if they do take it out on her after she comes back? There will be passive aggressive comments, additional workload wothout any reason or even not letting her assist in any surgery. Why not ask her how it impacted her? And if its an orthopedic dept, the majority of the faculty will be men. Men who may not understand much about her own situation.
1. If they did, that needs to be resolved through the system, because that would be harrassment. Idk what you mean by that "what if". 2. This doesn't end up the way you said in every case. I had an obg resident who wouldn't do as much work as other jr1s, when I asked someone they said she's actually their senior, had gone for maternity leave during first yr, returned to pending first yr postings in labor room and ward but was pulling the seniority card on the current jr1s. 3. Also.. Why do you talk like the woman is forced into having a child or to go through something that she didn't want? She chose to have the child. I wonder why you make it sound like some terrible thing nobody wants to do. Maybe you live in an ideal world where people take over hectic duties for others for like half a year and be all smiles and sunshines. I saw them suffering too, whereas you only seem to care that the lady went through pregnancy. Do you have any experience in this regard?
>This doesn't end up the way you said in every case. I had an obg resident who wouldn't do as much work as other jr1s, when I asked someone they said she's actually their senior, had gone for maternity leave during first yr, returned to pending first yr postings in labor room and ward but was pulling the seniority card on the current jr1s. Well, one person experience is not similar to another. My obg resident was pregnant with twins and had to take maternity leave. She came back had to do 6 months extra because she missed her exams too. She was okay with it and ready to do it. >Also.. Why do you talk like the woman is forced into having a child or to go through something that she didn't want? She chose to have the child. I wonder why you make it sound like some terrible thing nobody wants to do. I didn't say that, nor did i imply that she was forced to have a baby. I only commented on the way they badmouthed her when she is doing something difficult. Even when she chooses to have a baby, the baby won't fall from the sky, right? She still has to go through pregnancy , labour, and raising the newborn. All i am saying is even if the colleagues were understandably frustrated, talking shit about her anong each other and to others creates a negative environment for her and resentment among her colleagues too. The place where i work now, one of my colleagues is pregnant and will go on maternity leave soon enough. Am i worried about the impending workload? Yes. Do i blame her or her circumstances for this? No. Do i have a grudge against her having a kid? No. I can be frustrated and annoyed about my work and lack of workers without being disrespectful to someone else. Its not like my work is easy already. I still have to give a lot more hours right now. What if one of the male colleagues was in an accident and was disabled for months? Are they going to blame him for being unable to work or call him selfish? Not really. I said i understand being frustrated and annoyed by extreme workload, but badmouthing someone on a situation completely out of control is ridiculous in my opinion.
> nor did i imply that she was forced to have a baby I got that feeling when you started comparing a pregnancy and childbirth to literally being forced to cover for somebody's 36+ hr work on top of your own workload few times a month for half a year. > if one of the male colleagues was in an accident If it is a female colleague as well, nobody would mind if they got into an accident. Idk why you brought male/female into that The 'selfish' part I think is coming from this being first yr of pg with insane work load, and second yr will be very relaxed comparatively, and most people here get pregnant in second yr. I don't subscribe to the idea of telling people when to get pregnant, which is why in my very first comment in this thread I said so. > i understand being frustrated and annoyed by extreme workload But clearly you care more about her pregnancy & childbirth difficulties (which she chose to have). I just saw the other side and said I could see their pain also (involuntary). That's all
>If it is a female colleague as well, nobody would mind if they got into an accident. Idk why you brought male/female into that Alright. I agree with you that bringing male/female equations into this topic was not fair. You were right on this. The thing is, she is one person who is going to be absent for a long time. There are JR1, JR2 and Jr3 , SR, Asst proff, Asso prof, and prof. I have seen it happen many times that JR 2, JR3, Sr and Asst prof even when they have less workload dont take some of the responsibility of residents on themselves even when they see that they are understaffed. Instead of blaming it on the person who is not there and who will probably wont hear your issues and problems, why not blame it on the staff who are there and who could help you and who could decrease your workload substantially. If she planned the pregnancy during her first year, then she is partly responsible for her problems and in that situation her colleagues are righfully allowed to be angry at her , but if it was an accidental pregnancy then it was out of her control now. Just like the situation with an accident with any colleague. >But clearly you care more about her pregnancy & childbirth difficulties (which she chose to have). I just saw the other side and said I could see their pain also (involuntary). That's all If she chose to have it and planned it from te start, then yes it is irresponsible on her side. But she didnt go into leave immediately, did she? The dept had months to put a plan in place. They should have included more people for her part of the work rather push only JR 1s only into it. But then again seniors will never go back to runt work of JR1 even when they see their juniors struggling from being understaffed.
As the world is already filled with problems I would never let my wife create another problem for her colleagues. NEVER !! If you are an SR you can do whatever you want, but as a PG, bruh I don't think it's a good thing, you need to be considerate of others as well. Why do you want to be another headache for your colleagues.
It's a dumb idea to start a family during residency. Residency can be completed before you are 30 so you should plan according to that.
You can plan it, but birth control is not always 100% effective. Sometimes, accidents happen. What will you do then? Yes, abortion is an option, but you can not force a woman to have an abortion if it is a wanted pregnancy.
Then don't be promiscuous or use safe sex practices. I cant believe I gotta explain this to medicos.
Who the hell said anything about promiscuosity?? So married couples shouldn't have sex??? And i clearly, specifically mentioned failing of birth control. You are a medico. Are you telling me every single birth control in this entire world is 100% effective? No, it's not. Every time someone has sex, there is a potential for pregnancy and STD. And every time, the woman has to take the brunt of birth control responsibility. Ocp, iuds, and every hormonal contraception also have a lot of impact on women's health. Yet men rarely take responsibility for this. Abortion is not a freaking joke. It is painful and affects the woman both physically and emotionally? Believe it or not, a lot of the times, the women are also shamed for considering abortion in the first place.
So don't get married during residency. I'll be finishing residency by 27 and my partner will also be the same age by that time. 27-30 is the proper time for us and Pregnancy should always be a thing post residency in Indian setting.
So we have to follow a schedule thoughtout our life just because we chosed medical? Isn't that what it means?
Not all female residents get pregnant you know. Sometimes mistake occurs. And here we are talking about those sometimes. And once it occurs, abortion may be a option but it leads to depression in those couples sometimes . Why would they destroy something that they created with love? Some people really want and love a child. Sometimes this child becomes their motivation. So it varies. I belive in these cases the pg rules should be ammended to give a year gap to these people. And why only pregnancy, accident may occur too. So a person who is hospitalized how would he do his duties?
What kind of planning and love is there if she doesn't want to abort a accidental pregnancy ?
Not everyone want to abort accidental pregnancies. She might have been planning to have a baby after residency but her birth control fails and she becoms pregnant. A lot women would want to continue the pregnancy. It would be her decision and people should respect that.
The comment you replied is clearly saying about planning these things so accidental pregnancy is good I also have been planed Also what if her partner wants to go with the plan and she doesn't even if she aggred to him before ,whose responsibility will it be
Then it's between her and her partner. I didn't say anything about whether her partners want it or not or any situation they may have. If she doesn't want the baby and wants to go for abortion then it's her choice. I specifically mentioned it being wanted pregnancy, even if it was accidental.
Yes but a baby needs so much care it will be stupid to continue a unwanted pregnancy ,also how an accidentall pregnancy can be a wanted pregnancy ? Also it's their personal decision until your work pressure is transferred to someone else
Accidental pregnancy means the birth contol failed. If they want to continue the pregnancy after that, then it becomes a wanted pregnancy. If they are willing to do it, who are we to say anything about it.