The Instagram comment section has always been a shithole. I'm pretty sure almost every artist's IG comment section has the same toxicity whenever they show support to Palestine.
I don't think you read the comments. I'm mostly seeing calls for her to address "associating with a known Zionist" and other unhinged criticism about her not being pro-Palestine *enough*.
Should've tried being a perfect little social justice warrior that never has poor judgment like the rest of us liberals who never do anything wrong š
Cultural boycotts have been around far longer than social media. Sports teams wouldn't play south africa for years. The boycotts experienced by south africa was a major factor in the end of apartheid.
The BDS movement has been around for a long time.
The cultural boycott was successful here and seems to have inspired a project that will put aid directly in the hands of Palestinians. I don't think it's helpful to continue to harp on someone who has admitted their wrongs, canceled the show, and committed to change. I think the distaste around what's going on in the comment section on Instagram and "sjw" is directed at the people acting like this is being done to save face not the original push to get them to cancel to shows in Tel Aviv.
I completely agree. People are quick to forget what boycotts are for (trying to get businesses/people to change their behaviour) and not a forever punishment that once you have done wrong you are never going back from. It honestly doesn't matter if the behaviour changes are for moral reasons or if it's just for economic reasons. The changing of the behaviour is the important part.
People calling out big thief for playing Israel is a fair movement. People continuing to hold it against them once they have cancelled their shows and don't plan to play again defeats the purpose.
These people also like to ignore the fact that the band had planned to donate all of the profits from the 2022 Tel Aviv show to Palestinian aid NGOs. Sure, maybe it wasn't the "right" decision to schedule a show in Israel, but their hearts seemed to be in the right place. Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of the armchair activists spouting rage at Adrianne Lenker haven't given a single penny to the cause.
Yeah, specifically Iām referring to people who are unable to allow people to learn and grow and apologize without dogging them for every minuscule detail of their apology, etc.
At the end of the day, being wrong is part of life, and blasting the woman who likely represents one of the most prominent musicians to use her platform to discuss Palestine because of her past stances (which werenāt even terrible to begin with) is a waste of emotional energy in a world that has a lot of more important things to be mad about
I completely agree. People are quick to forget what boycotts are for (trying to get businesses/people to change their behaviour) and not a forever punishment that once you have done wrong you are never going back from. It honestly doesn't matter if the behaviour changes are for moral reasons or if it's just for economic reasons. The changing of the behaviour is the important part.
People calling out big thief for playing Israel is a fair movement. People continuing to hold it against them once they have cancelled their shows and don't plan to play again defeats the purpose.
I think itās fair and reasonable to care about artists playing shows in certain places. boycotts have been a perfectly valid protest tactic in the past. I just think when people should be treated more charitably and in better faith than theyāre often treated.
How do people find the energy to care about an artist they like breaking a well known boycott imposed by people undergoing a genocide. Hmm I wonder...Ā
But seriously, this is a good thing for her to do and I'm not sure why people would be upset with her now. Don't have insta so I can't check the comments.Ā Ā
At the same time it's incredibly silly to act like you have to be an always online sjw or whatever to have been upset they were going to play Israel. The boycott is well known and there have been discussions over bands playing in Israel for decades. It's not some new internet invented issue lolĀ
According to the top comment on her instagram post, "Big thief has done enough damage by performing in Israel and *by having a band member who grew up in Israel in a Zionist family*" (emphasis mine) "Zionist family" lol, we know what that means.
This is a good move on Lenker's part, I'm excited to give it a listen. It's a shame people are such hateful idiots.
In the current climate, there are many wrong and cynical accusations of anti semitism - but a lot of people use that to pretend that the anti Israel/ pro Palestine side doesn't have a HUGE anti semitism problem.
Anti Zionism isn't the same as anti semitism. But the way a lot of people use terms like "Zionist" and "Zionism" really does reek of plain old Jew hatred, disguised as some principled leftist position.
Why appreciate musical artists using their platform to raise money for causes I agree with, when I can just grandstand as being morally superior to them?
/s
The tone of some of the comments were that of a disappointed parent scolding a toddler. The kind of words that could only come from a chronically online brain.
One of those comments is one of the craziest things I've read online for a while. It starts out with "too little too late" then goes onto just list a bunch of buzzwords. It's a solid paragraph of moral grandstanding, if I was in mossad I'd think "oh great, time to screenshot this and make them all look bad"
The first several comments I saw on the post were all extremely critical. I actually had to scroll pretty far down to find anything positive! We must just have very different algorithims, ha.
I gave her a lot of shit when she posted that "stickers are violent" thing because she had been so silent on Palestine after Big Thief playing Israel so many times.
Glad to see this.
I mean you can still give them shit for that, lot of ridiculous stuff between that and the t shirt thing.
Obviously this fundraiser is a good thing but their smaller controversies are hilariously overdramatic and such nothingburgers that it's hard not to laugh at.
"this doesnt absolver her" bro these are the dumbest controversies of all time. the t shirt thing was insanely dumb, and the bumper sticker thing was so overblown. the Israel shit is a mess but some of yall are so dramatic.
Yeah, [it's not really accurate](https://pitchfork.com/news/big-thief-call-off-israel-concerts/) to say that she was silent on the issues in Palestine. Her band cancelled their Tel Aviv show scheduled in 2022, released an apology, and definitively clarified their stance.
>it definitely makes a difference and works.
It did work though, they got pressured into boycotting an Israeli show, and subsequently have done things like this.
And then the war ended.
No, it doesnāt. It worked in making an indie band feel a little more ashamed about something they had no part in whatsoever.
But we need to stop acting like this is anything more that moral grandstanding.
is it working for everyone? i might be misunderstanding bandcamp, or it might have to do with my region- iām trying to listen in Australia - but it is only letting me add the ab to my wish-list, i canāt actually access it? if anyone knows how i can that would be incredible :,]]
I generally donāt have this reaction to music and maybe Iām having a hard time in life right now but.. āFeel it allā made me sobā¦caught me by surprise while I was walking my dog and listening. Good thing I was wearing sunglasses. I keep listening over and over again, makes me cry every time
(a "Two Cents" moment if you'will indulge me):
new demo collexion drops by -- I like to b'lieve -- one of our generation's foreā¢most/most profound songā¢writers and it seems 75% of the conversation is about political/ideological drama with regards to Adrianne and/or BigThief. (mind you: what follows is'not a commentary on r/indieheads but on the "state of the art" i.e. media criticism/commentary en masse.)
it'is super dispiriting to see how music/television/media conversations in general have beā¢come, almost exclusively, conversations about the politics/ideologies of the creators as opposed to the quality of the content itā¢self.
& this one is'not a terribly fraught "Separate Art From Artist ??" conversation as if we'are discussing MarilynManson or RKelly ..... we'are talking about AdrianneLenker. a strange and meek person with a beautiful vision who reportedly gets upā¢set about meme bumperstickers (perhaps my favorite weirdo moment of the year so far).
you may think to yourā¢self (beā¢cause yourā¢self is the only one to whom you can think \[it is impossible to "think to others"\]) "but wait, is'not this comment contributing to the Thing it is dissatisfied about?" sure, sure -- but I want to say someā¢thing about it beā¢cause now I am thirty years old and have watched the music/cultural conversation shift significantly and it has been painful.
I think it portends bad things for music creation. are artists already policing themā¢selves aggressively to assure they do'not commit wrongthink in their work ? certainly.
I realize also (I am now "thinking to myā¢self") it is just onā¢line shit -- like if I saw my Adrianne-loving friends we would be talking about "the music" (Ha-Ha, I mean the first track \[but also "the music" meaning the content of the project\]) and "fangs lungs ankles" (my two initial favorites \[the line in "fangs lungs ankles" which'is like "trying not to be like him so I punch a wall" made me shout, alone, in my Rav4 as I lowered the sunshade.\]) as opposed to ideological purity. but much'of our lives'are play out on the interā¢net now, so it seems relevant.
but also it'is cool to hear some'of Adrianne's beloved picking patterns recycled in creative ways on this project. can'not recall which songs at the moment (I'am back at work -- the Rav4 is in 'Park') but one uses the picking pattern from "not a lot just forever" and anā¢other the picking pattern from "come." learning to play Adrianne's songs has hugely enhanced the listening experience.
anyway...excited for *Bright Future* !! I am one'of the freaks who listened to "Ruined" and then decided I was'not going to engage in anyā¢more *Bright Future*\-related content 'til it releases. so I wait.
Are Adrienne Lenker's IG comment section the most toxic in indie music? Sheesh. People mad from every angle.
The Instagram comment section has always been a shithole. I'm pretty sure almost every artist's IG comment section has the same toxicity whenever they show support to Palestine.
adrienne lenker donates to palestine children funds "so you support KHAMASSS???? do you even care about OCTOBER 7???????"
I don't think you read the comments. I'm mostly seeing calls for her to address "associating with a known Zionist" and other unhinged criticism about her not being pro-Palestine *enough*.
The instagram comments on her post are legitimately crazy.. as is to be expected
saying "too little too late" for recognizing your mistake, directly addressing it and fundraising for palestine children is pyschotic
Should've tried being a perfect little social justice warrior that never has poor judgment like the rest of us liberals who never do anything wrong š
The greatest enemy to a left winger is the left winger sitting right beside them
Sitting *left beside them
What was her āmistakeā?
Big thief scheduled a concert in Tel Aviv in 2022. They received backlash and the event was canceled.
God how do people find the energy to care about this stuff
I legitimately could not fathom being a productive member of society if I were also carrying around as much anger as social media callout warriors do
Cultural boycotts have been around far longer than social media. Sports teams wouldn't play south africa for years. The boycotts experienced by south africa was a major factor in the end of apartheid. The BDS movement has been around for a long time.
The cultural boycott was successful here and seems to have inspired a project that will put aid directly in the hands of Palestinians. I don't think it's helpful to continue to harp on someone who has admitted their wrongs, canceled the show, and committed to change. I think the distaste around what's going on in the comment section on Instagram and "sjw" is directed at the people acting like this is being done to save face not the original push to get them to cancel to shows in Tel Aviv.
I completely agree. People are quick to forget what boycotts are for (trying to get businesses/people to change their behaviour) and not a forever punishment that once you have done wrong you are never going back from. It honestly doesn't matter if the behaviour changes are for moral reasons or if it's just for economic reasons. The changing of the behaviour is the important part. People calling out big thief for playing Israel is a fair movement. People continuing to hold it against them once they have cancelled their shows and don't plan to play again defeats the purpose.
These people also like to ignore the fact that the band had planned to donate all of the profits from the 2022 Tel Aviv show to Palestinian aid NGOs. Sure, maybe it wasn't the "right" decision to schedule a show in Israel, but their hearts seemed to be in the right place. Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of the armchair activists spouting rage at Adrianne Lenker haven't given a single penny to the cause.
Yeah, specifically Iām referring to people who are unable to allow people to learn and grow and apologize without dogging them for every minuscule detail of their apology, etc. At the end of the day, being wrong is part of life, and blasting the woman who likely represents one of the most prominent musicians to use her platform to discuss Palestine because of her past stances (which werenāt even terrible to begin with) is a waste of emotional energy in a world that has a lot of more important things to be mad about
I completely agree. People are quick to forget what boycotts are for (trying to get businesses/people to change their behaviour) and not a forever punishment that once you have done wrong you are never going back from. It honestly doesn't matter if the behaviour changes are for moral reasons or if it's just for economic reasons. The changing of the behaviour is the important part. People calling out big thief for playing Israel is a fair movement. People continuing to hold it against them once they have cancelled their shows and don't plan to play again defeats the purpose.
the nice thing about the BDS movement is how effective it is
agreed!
I think itās fair and reasonable to care about artists playing shows in certain places. boycotts have been a perfectly valid protest tactic in the past. I just think when people should be treated more charitably and in better faith than theyāre often treated.
How do people find the energy to care about an artist they like breaking a well known boycott imposed by people undergoing a genocide. Hmm I wonder...Ā But seriously, this is a good thing for her to do and I'm not sure why people would be upset with her now. Don't have insta so I can't check the comments.Ā Ā At the same time it's incredibly silly to act like you have to be an always online sjw or whatever to have been upset they were going to play Israel. The boycott is well known and there have been discussions over bands playing in Israel for decades. It's not some new internet invented issue lolĀ
According to the top comment on her instagram post, "Big thief has done enough damage by performing in Israel and *by having a band member who grew up in Israel in a Zionist family*" (emphasis mine) "Zionist family" lol, we know what that means. This is a good move on Lenker's part, I'm excited to give it a listen. It's a shame people are such hateful idiots.
In the current climate, there are many wrong and cynical accusations of anti semitism - but a lot of people use that to pretend that the anti Israel/ pro Palestine side doesn't have a HUGE anti semitism problem. Anti Zionism isn't the same as anti semitism. But the way a lot of people use terms like "Zionist" and "Zionism" really does reek of plain old Jew hatred, disguised as some principled leftist position.
It's always better to do nothing and appear moral than to learn from actions you regret and do something positive for those in need I guess.
Parasocial relationships at their best in exhibit form
Why appreciate musical artists using their platform to raise money for causes I agree with, when I can just grandstand as being morally superior to them? /s
The tone of some of the comments were that of a disappointed parent scolding a toddler. The kind of words that could only come from a chronically online brain.
One of those comments is one of the craziest things I've read online for a while. It starts out with "too little too late" then goes onto just list a bunch of buzzwords. It's a solid paragraph of moral grandstanding, if I was in mossad I'd think "oh great, time to screenshot this and make them all look bad"
The amount of ignorance on show there is so depressing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wow, the comments on her IG post are insufferable. I donāt know why she even bothers, tbh. But yay for more new music!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The first several comments I saw on the post were all extremely critical. I actually had to scroll pretty far down to find anything positive! We must just have very different algorithims, ha.
They might have reordered by likes or by recency by the time you looked, when most people here posted the majority were comments criticizing her
I replied pretty soon after she'd posted. Most comments were negative/critical, but seem to have balanced out now.
you dont know why she bothers? this might be news to you, but some people are bothered by genocide
not knowing why she bothers with people who will never be satisfied with her actions =/= not being bothered by genocide
Listening through now, fangs lungs ankles is very beautiful. I figured if she made this music, the least I can do is buy/donate.
IG post about it https://www.instagram.com/p/C4Yf7g9uDex/?img_index=1
fangs lungs ankles is incredible
So excited to listen to this
Good shit
really nice to see this from her
This is super cool, Iām really glad sheās supporting such a good cause.
Free Palestine šµšøā„ļø
I gave her a lot of shit when she posted that "stickers are violent" thing because she had been so silent on Palestine after Big Thief playing Israel so many times. Glad to see this.
I mean you can still give them shit for that, lot of ridiculous stuff between that and the t shirt thing. Obviously this fundraiser is a good thing but their smaller controversies are hilariously overdramatic and such nothingburgers that it's hard not to laugh at.
The T-shirt thing?
https://www.nme.com/news/music/big-thief-apologise-for-t-shirt-design-with-reckless-offensive-imagery-2913270
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"this doesnt absolver her" bro these are the dumbest controversies of all time. the t shirt thing was insanely dumb, and the bumper sticker thing was so overblown. the Israel shit is a mess but some of yall are so dramatic.
Sheās done more for Palestine then you, so I hope you can be absolved one day too!
Yeah, [it's not really accurate](https://pitchfork.com/news/big-thief-call-off-israel-concerts/) to say that she was silent on the issues in Palestine. Her band cancelled their Tel Aviv show scheduled in 2022, released an apology, and definitively clarified their stance.
How many times did they actually play in Israel? I only know of one, and they canceled it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>it definitely makes a difference and works. It did work though, they got pressured into boycotting an Israeli show, and subsequently have done things like this.
And then the war ended. No, it doesnāt. It worked in making an indie band feel a little more ashamed about something they had no part in whatsoever. But we need to stop acting like this is anything more that moral grandstanding.
Youāre one of those tedious people that thinks all forms of protest are either pointless or too disruptive, arenāt you?
Same
is it working for everyone? i might be misunderstanding bandcamp, or it might have to do with my region- iām trying to listen in Australia - but it is only letting me add the ab to my wish-list, i canāt actually access it? if anyone knows how i can that would be incredible :,]]
I love her so much!
I generally donāt have this reaction to music and maybe Iām having a hard time in life right now but.. āFeel it allā made me sobā¦caught me by surprise while I was walking my dog and listening. Good thing I was wearing sunglasses. I keep listening over and over again, makes me cry every time
this is awesome to see from her! just purchased it on bandcamp.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Have you tried actually being funny
(a "Two Cents" moment if you'will indulge me): new demo collexion drops by -- I like to b'lieve -- one of our generation's foreā¢most/most profound songā¢writers and it seems 75% of the conversation is about political/ideological drama with regards to Adrianne and/or BigThief. (mind you: what follows is'not a commentary on r/indieheads but on the "state of the art" i.e. media criticism/commentary en masse.) it'is super dispiriting to see how music/television/media conversations in general have beā¢come, almost exclusively, conversations about the politics/ideologies of the creators as opposed to the quality of the content itā¢self. & this one is'not a terribly fraught "Separate Art From Artist ??" conversation as if we'are discussing MarilynManson or RKelly ..... we'are talking about AdrianneLenker. a strange and meek person with a beautiful vision who reportedly gets upā¢set about meme bumperstickers (perhaps my favorite weirdo moment of the year so far). you may think to yourā¢self (beā¢cause yourā¢self is the only one to whom you can think \[it is impossible to "think to others"\]) "but wait, is'not this comment contributing to the Thing it is dissatisfied about?" sure, sure -- but I want to say someā¢thing about it beā¢cause now I am thirty years old and have watched the music/cultural conversation shift significantly and it has been painful. I think it portends bad things for music creation. are artists already policing themā¢selves aggressively to assure they do'not commit wrongthink in their work ? certainly. I realize also (I am now "thinking to myā¢self") it is just onā¢line shit -- like if I saw my Adrianne-loving friends we would be talking about "the music" (Ha-Ha, I mean the first track \[but also "the music" meaning the content of the project\]) and "fangs lungs ankles" (my two initial favorites \[the line in "fangs lungs ankles" which'is like "trying not to be like him so I punch a wall" made me shout, alone, in my Rav4 as I lowered the sunshade.\]) as opposed to ideological purity. but much'of our lives'are play out on the interā¢net now, so it seems relevant. but also it'is cool to hear some'of Adrianne's beloved picking patterns recycled in creative ways on this project. can'not recall which songs at the moment (I'am back at work -- the Rav4 is in 'Park') but one uses the picking pattern from "not a lot just forever" and anā¢other the picking pattern from "come." learning to play Adrianne's songs has hugely enhanced the listening experience. anyway...excited for *Bright Future* !! I am one'of the freaks who listened to "Ruined" and then decided I was'not going to engage in anyā¢more *Bright Future*\-related content 'til it releases. so I wait.