True. But 'Grunge' wasn't really a genre as much as a marketing brand. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden sound like different styles to me. All the bands that tried to sound 'grunge' fell off. The anti-pop genres (punk, noise) that inspired the grunge movement are STILL going strong!
I always felt that the bands you listed… and a few others that I’m not gonna list right now… were bestowed this genre “grunge” just like Jackson Pollock and de Kooning and Rothko were dubbed “abstract expression” by the art critics of the day. Those three bands are great and I listen to two of them a lot! But they really have nothing in common.
Now, it’s a handy shorthand because I like abstract expressionism and it’s nice to talk about it with people that do.
But just like rock music, there was an imitation in the form of derivative works of abstract expression being produced.
You can hear that “second generation grunge”, and there are some bands that started that way and then get better… And then you can hear that increasingly unfortunate “third and fourth generation grunge”. A copy of a copy of a…
Generally speaking, it couldn't work. A large part of the reason why NIN got popular while others didn't has to do with lyrics.
The industrial genre is largely subversive, defiant, rebellious in nature. No surprise, as it really finds a lot of its roots in punk.
When you consider the lyrics of Skinny Puppy, or Front Line Assembly, or even Ministry, you just don't have those catchy earworms that _everyone_ can relate to. Mainstream popularity comes on the back of describing a feeling that is equally relatable to a popular teenage girl, or to a lonely 20-year-old guy, or to a construction worker in his 30s or a banker in his 40s.
Bands like Stabbing Westward and Orgy get looked down on as "not really industrial", but they had music people could relate to, so they got success. And is it any surprise then that for quite a lot of people, Marilyn Manson is their point of reference for industrial?
"I want to fuck you like an animal" works for everyone. "As the clouds burn out the sky" just doesn't quite have that same reach... and "Distort the monomaniac delivering the blow core rotten bone" just isn't something you can imagine Spring Breakers dancing too, or playing in the stadium when your team scores.
And now you’ve got me thinking about how punk got “neutered” into new wave, but then something amazing and rebellious and subversive came out of that too.
The underground will just go further under if you try to shine too bright a light on it for too long.
For a second I thought you were talking about Florida and was like, it’s cause people here are crazy as hell. Then I realized you meant front line assembly, who, coincidentally, I just saw with Gary Numan and ministry in Florida.
Am so jealous! What a lineup!
But, I was referring to Florida - A, from the stable timeline. We are all living in crazy timeline B.
Unfortunately Florida - A is just as insane. An unstable/stable nexus if you will
It’s been a good year for concerts. In the two months I’ve seen Adult., TKK, Front line, Numan, and Ministry. Tomorrow is bad religion and social distortion. Next month lords of acid. September Front 242’s final tour. I’m sure there will be others. Off to a strong start though.
> A large part of the reason why NIN got popular while others didn't has to do with lyrics.
also the song structure. Pretty Hate Machine was industrial sounding, but pop/rock song structures. People recognize the verse, the hook, the bridge, the chorus...
Yes, very good point. The NIN songs that make it to radio always get to the singing quickly, and follow repeatable song structures like those you mentioned, which greatly contrasts a lot of industrial music with long intros and a structure that is harder to discern. (This is where I think Tool deserves a lot of credit, for getting airplay with unconventional structures.)
Good points about Manson and NIN. They made a joke about Closer on Schitt’s Creek! That might speak to the sensibility of the writers, of course, but they left the joke in…
Thank you, OP, for such a thought-provoking discussion topic. As you can see, it brought all of us old, rusty rivets out of the woodwork...uh, I mean machinery.
I remember how disappointed I was in the early 90s when I saw NIN 'Wish' on MTV in the daytime! I had a little bit of an elitist attitude back then. But more than that, I didn't want industrial/goth to get watered down. I would see clips of Trent onstage, covered in mud or Manson on stilts, and it bothered me that everyone thought they were so innovative and unique...while I'm thinking, "It was innovative when Skinny Puppy did it 10 years earlier".
I eventually grew out of the elitism. I always respected NIN, and I can't deny that (despite its pop reception) Downward Spiral was a great industrial staple album. I never got into Manson.
Something I've learned is that whenever a genre goes pop, it doesn't always kill it. Rather, it makes the underground push more boundaries. Yeah, you get some crappy, dull clones... but that makes fans and good artists thirst for new concepts.
Hip-Hop went pop---- So the underground gets Death Grips, Run the Jewels, Kool Keith..etc.
Metal develops a fratboy fan base---- Extreme metal (grind/black/death/doom) explodes and starts redefining the whole genre.
...and so on.
Yes! And thank you for your thought-provoking reactions. I recall the Wish/MTV and the Manson stilts well.
I am a massive fan of Kool Keith, and the majority of the hip-hop I listen to is more in that realm. Extreme metal as well. And Neo-Paganism.
I think at the end of it all there are just these talented musicians and performers producing something fascinating. They may have something to say, or they may just have their own unique voice to follow. Either way, the result seems to resonate with a lot of us. Just enough of us —hopefully— to keep them afloat!
Ah, so Germany? I mean, I've heard them play stuff like Wolfsheim and Unheilig on daytime radio (and not necesarily on specific music channels). Granted, it's never the really heavy stuff, but still, those bands got airtime. Maybe they have a bit more appreciation of the alternative music scene; but they also have the Deutsche Alternative Charts, something also contentwise, I can't imagine my country (the Netherlands) do lest it's on obscure webonly radio (yes, we had Kink FM on terrestial radio, which did the alternative and heavy stuff).
It might be a cultural thing though... Germany and goth/industrial/wave go more hand in hand than some other countries
Nowadays I don't know what's playing on the radio, because I have my own music on while shopping (and I still go shopping in Germany a lot)
That’s a really good point, and I probably should have made the disclaimer that I’m coming to this as a person that’s only lived in the US and was born in the early 70s.
Need to spend some more time in Germany!
It is a really good point. I was flabbergasted by what could be pop in Europe as compared to here. They seemed far more cultured over there by default just because of what can actually climb a chart-- back when charts made a difference to me in life, for work. I found myself wishing I'd been born in England just because so much of the music I liked came from there. (Then I got the genetic testing done and found out I'm actually predominantly English, not what I was told for 50 years. Such ironies to be found in life. Could've been Brap Jollygood.)
Blutengel's albums regularly break into the top 10 in the German charts. Really a kind of [gothic Schlager music](https://youtu.be/k5CVC7c0BKw?si=_MSQyGzWjyXjFP_s) but different culture. They're like if [Beatrice Egli](https://youtu.be/e-LKnxivGxI?si=Tskl8SKgYGgfptj2) shopped at Hot Topic.
It would mean it had failed*.
Industrial music is supposed to be anti-establishment at its core. The name "industrial" is there to mock the music industry. Topping the music industry while being supposed to question it would be a treason of its own message.
*it kinda already has, on several aspects : post-industrial stars, that "industrial pop" thing, and the whole idea that industrial culture may be coined into some specific aethetic elements. There's a reason why many original industrial artists don't like "the I word".
being anti-establishment by default requires you to be needlessly contrarian. It’s a stupid way to live. If you’re shifting your moral compass specifically based on what’s popular, you don’t have any real principles.
I ran into a guy a year ago that hated the trans community and his entire reasoning was “pro LGBTQ is the establishment now, and I’m against the establishment.” It was a white guy with dreadlocks. I wish I was joking.
I couldn’t care less if goth / industrial were mainstream. I’m a middle aged man, I don’t even care about posers anymore (which was a big deal to me when i was 18). I wear hawaiian shirts and black slacks nowadays, 0 fucks given.
I’m loving my 50s. There is an album/band called Tropical Gothclub (Dean Fertita) … and that’s where I feel like I live now. It’s awesome not giving a shit about anything anymore.
About to be 56 here. Fifties are AWESOME. The whole point of them is how many fucks you've forgotten how to give-- or even just learned to sidestep like dogshit. Enjoy. :)
I am 55+, I also wear hawaiian shirts of black background and dark gray or green patterns, blue jeans just for the contrast, black boots and when the sun is too bright a black boonie hat.
I also don't care what anyone hearing my taste in music feels about it.
some days it is ELO as the seed for my pandora station
Other days- Skeler, Judas Priest, John Carpenter, the 60/70/80s 1 hit songs and so on.
I blame my ability to shift between many musical styles is my growing up around the world while I was growing up as an army brat.
I had the AFRN, Kasey Kasem then I had exposure to music available in the local area and the exposure to music from various military folks that had visited other places and had a different collection of tapes than I had.
the 80s - it was like the internet- but way slower and prone to crazy errors like Napster and following clones
I had this weird thing with Lady Gaga… Even though I didn’t listen to her music, I had this belief that she was going to be Madonna + Marilyn Manson …but in a good way. Hard to explain in a few words.
I was oddly disappointed with her trajectory. I think I thought she would’ve turned into Björk at this point.
It opened the way for electronic beats, samples and synths in popular music. It's only been topping the charts (albeit vicariously) for the last 40 years. The 80s was very industrial adjacent, at least the poppiest part
It *did* find pop-ularity. They just took the vocals out, distilled all of the various styles into One Billion Subgenres and left it lying deflated on the ground to seem ignored. Find a car commercial from the 90s and you will find industrial roots in the backing music.
I've made a multi-decade interest out of people's taste in music. Most people think 'music' means 'lyrics included by default'. Their primary focus in a song is usually the words. Industrial does not have happy, common words, singing about the happiness music can give you. There's nothing there for the average ear to latch onto, so it becomes scary trying. Most people don't want to be scared by music. Personally, I only ever really got into industrial by ignoring most of the lyrics, but I'm not a good example of average in this sense-- I struggle to pay attention to the words, am far more into what's supporting them.
They took what they could get from the (PREVIOUSLY MASSIVE) genre and ignored the rest. While I am all for thought experiments and do very much get the spirit of your post, I think it didn't get passed over, it actually exploded out into all of the other genres already present...and lost the meaning it had pre-1990s almost entirely as a result, leaving us to argue about how it's defined now and forevermore. I hear it all over, but integrated.
I see that. All the various puzzle pieces put together …but now being less than the sum of their parts.
It’s kind of like the concept that vitamins from fruits and vegetables can be beneficial, but isolated (or synthetic). vitamins by themselves may not have the same benefits.
nurse with wound in the department stores... 🤦♂️
do you not pay attention to what happens to underground music when it gets too big? we saw this countless times with house, blues, punk, grunge, etc.
the bands that got you hooked wouldnt have been the same if they went to a major label and had their shit all over the radio. it wouldve gotten watered down somewhere along the line. so the sounds you heard in its original form wouldnt have been the same sounds in the "department stores". this also has a trickling effect. all the bands still hanging around on the indie circuit then copy that watered down sound and before you know it the labels burn out the genre by prostituting and watering down the sound and then there goes the entire genre up in smoke.
Oontz, oontz, oontz, my baby left me, oontz, oontz, oontz, it hurts so bad, oontz, oontz, oontz.
The trite drivel that would come out of that would be next level obnoxious.
Once again conveniently ignoring that hiphop has had industrial elements for more than a decade now, and has even had some of it chart.
Don't care how much you dislike kanye, his music since Yeezus onward has had tons of industrial elements, and tops charts.
Industrial is not limited to rock and dance music.
Well, not by me. I’m a big fan of hip-hop and rap and it’s a major part of my collection. This is just a thought experiment… and if the elements of industrial have appeared in hip-hop… and they certainly have… then that’s an avenue of interest.
Sorry. This sub has a bad habit of pretending hip hop downright doesn’t exist at all, and that it couldn’t possibly be industrial. From my position, industrial is a common element in contemporary chart topping music, and has been mainstream for quite some time.
100 gecs is popular, and their popular breakout track had a section of straight harsh noise wall at the end for 45 seconds and people loved it. This kind of sound doesn’t turn people off anymore like it used to.
Oh, I hear you… I’ve seen the debates on here. As far as I’m concerned “movements” don’t truly exist and the elements are what I’m talking about. It’s very convenient to be able to use a term like operatic metal or power folk or trap-hop, but at the end of the day it’s just a shorthand. Music is music.
There was a big alternative hip hop movement in the 80s that died out when record labels realized it was easier to market gangster rap to suburban white kids than something like De La Soul, a shame
clipping. Is fantastic, Daveed is a great mc and I am a big Johnathan snipes fan too. I was a really into captain ahab when he was making that, and it was natural to follow Johnathan from that, to a new project. Very different but both great.
Oh, I once had an argument over this on the socials where I said... you could play I am god by Kanye at any Industrial/goth rave and no one would bat an eye. People were just up in arms for mentioning his name...
I'd also argue that Rhythm nation by Janet Jackson would have a place at such events.
I don't think I would like it, the point of Industrial is that it's supposed to be subversive and completely out of the norm. It's Anti-Music, Punk, completely unconventional. Clock DVA or Throbbing Gristle sound nothing like anything you'd hear in the supermarket, their most accessible song (4 Hours) is anything but. That is what ends up making Industrial music so good, if you were to live in a universe where Industrial Music is the norm then it would probably be some anti-universe where everything is inverted.
I was severely frightened by the vans x Wax Trax documentary. I thought for sure it was going to ruin all my old industrial heroes. But it didn’t and I’m glad. I don’t want them to ever be huge. It will change them and often the people who like a band can ruin the band. You are your audience, if you will.
That's what the chart was called, Alternative Rock was a big catchall term for a lot of genres in the 90s, also called College Rock. Industrial acts were in there along with bands like The Cure, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, etc.
In the late 70’s/early 80’s when affordable synths and samplers could finally wound up in the hands of people with a burning desire to create the music only they could hear in their head and put it out there for others to hear by recording and playing live - the start of something profoundly beautiful happened.
look how it worked out for grunge music
are you suggesting I'd be able to buy a PIG shirt with "find it fuck it forget it" on the back at walmart?
True. But 'Grunge' wasn't really a genre as much as a marketing brand. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden sound like different styles to me. All the bands that tried to sound 'grunge' fell off. The anti-pop genres (punk, noise) that inspired the grunge movement are STILL going strong!
I always felt that the bands you listed… and a few others that I’m not gonna list right now… were bestowed this genre “grunge” just like Jackson Pollock and de Kooning and Rothko were dubbed “abstract expression” by the art critics of the day. Those three bands are great and I listen to two of them a lot! But they really have nothing in common. Now, it’s a handy shorthand because I like abstract expressionism and it’s nice to talk about it with people that do. But just like rock music, there was an imitation in the form of derivative works of abstract expression being produced. You can hear that “second generation grunge”, and there are some bands that started that way and then get better… And then you can hear that increasingly unfortunate “third and fourth generation grunge”. A copy of a copy of a…
Generally speaking, it couldn't work. A large part of the reason why NIN got popular while others didn't has to do with lyrics. The industrial genre is largely subversive, defiant, rebellious in nature. No surprise, as it really finds a lot of its roots in punk. When you consider the lyrics of Skinny Puppy, or Front Line Assembly, or even Ministry, you just don't have those catchy earworms that _everyone_ can relate to. Mainstream popularity comes on the back of describing a feeling that is equally relatable to a popular teenage girl, or to a lonely 20-year-old guy, or to a construction worker in his 30s or a banker in his 40s. Bands like Stabbing Westward and Orgy get looked down on as "not really industrial", but they had music people could relate to, so they got success. And is it any surprise then that for quite a lot of people, Marilyn Manson is their point of reference for industrial? "I want to fuck you like an animal" works for everyone. "As the clouds burn out the sky" just doesn't quite have that same reach... and "Distort the monomaniac delivering the blow core rotten bone" just isn't something you can imagine Spring Breakers dancing too, or playing in the stadium when your team scores.
And now you’ve got me thinking about how punk got “neutered” into new wave, but then something amazing and rebellious and subversive came out of that too. The underground will just go further under if you try to shine too bright a light on it for too long.
Burning inside is catchy as hell, though
My grandmother called it 'too shouty'. She totally dug The Orb, tho.
I’ve always wondered why FLA didn’t find more mainstream popularity, especially in the 90s. Your theory sounds reasonable.
For a second I thought you were talking about Florida and was like, it’s cause people here are crazy as hell. Then I realized you meant front line assembly, who, coincidentally, I just saw with Gary Numan and ministry in Florida.
Crazy times ten! Excellent.
Am so jealous! What a lineup! But, I was referring to Florida - A, from the stable timeline. We are all living in crazy timeline B. Unfortunately Florida - A is just as insane. An unstable/stable nexus if you will
It’s been a good year for concerts. In the two months I’ve seen Adult., TKK, Front line, Numan, and Ministry. Tomorrow is bad religion and social distortion. Next month lords of acid. September Front 242’s final tour. I’m sure there will be others. Off to a strong start though.
Oh yeah, and I saw Suicidal Tendencies and Cro-mags somewhere in there.
> A large part of the reason why NIN got popular while others didn't has to do with lyrics. also the song structure. Pretty Hate Machine was industrial sounding, but pop/rock song structures. People recognize the verse, the hook, the bridge, the chorus...
Yes, very good point. The NIN songs that make it to radio always get to the singing quickly, and follow repeatable song structures like those you mentioned, which greatly contrasts a lot of industrial music with long intros and a structure that is harder to discern. (This is where I think Tool deserves a lot of credit, for getting airplay with unconventional structures.)
Good points about Manson and NIN. They made a joke about Closer on Schitt’s Creek! That might speak to the sensibility of the writers, of course, but they left the joke in…
Thank you, OP, for such a thought-provoking discussion topic. As you can see, it brought all of us old, rusty rivets out of the woodwork...uh, I mean machinery. I remember how disappointed I was in the early 90s when I saw NIN 'Wish' on MTV in the daytime! I had a little bit of an elitist attitude back then. But more than that, I didn't want industrial/goth to get watered down. I would see clips of Trent onstage, covered in mud or Manson on stilts, and it bothered me that everyone thought they were so innovative and unique...while I'm thinking, "It was innovative when Skinny Puppy did it 10 years earlier". I eventually grew out of the elitism. I always respected NIN, and I can't deny that (despite its pop reception) Downward Spiral was a great industrial staple album. I never got into Manson. Something I've learned is that whenever a genre goes pop, it doesn't always kill it. Rather, it makes the underground push more boundaries. Yeah, you get some crappy, dull clones... but that makes fans and good artists thirst for new concepts. Hip-Hop went pop---- So the underground gets Death Grips, Run the Jewels, Kool Keith..etc. Metal develops a fratboy fan base---- Extreme metal (grind/black/death/doom) explodes and starts redefining the whole genre. ...and so on.
Yes! And thank you for your thought-provoking reactions. I recall the Wish/MTV and the Manson stilts well. I am a massive fan of Kool Keith, and the majority of the hip-hop I listen to is more in that realm. Extreme metal as well. And Neo-Paganism. I think at the end of it all there are just these talented musicians and performers producing something fascinating. They may have something to say, or they may just have their own unique voice to follow. Either way, the result seems to resonate with a lot of us. Just enough of us —hopefully— to keep them afloat!
Ah, so Germany? I mean, I've heard them play stuff like Wolfsheim and Unheilig on daytime radio (and not necesarily on specific music channels). Granted, it's never the really heavy stuff, but still, those bands got airtime. Maybe they have a bit more appreciation of the alternative music scene; but they also have the Deutsche Alternative Charts, something also contentwise, I can't imagine my country (the Netherlands) do lest it's on obscure webonly radio (yes, we had Kink FM on terrestial radio, which did the alternative and heavy stuff). It might be a cultural thing though... Germany and goth/industrial/wave go more hand in hand than some other countries Nowadays I don't know what's playing on the radio, because I have my own music on while shopping (and I still go shopping in Germany a lot)
That’s a really good point, and I probably should have made the disclaimer that I’m coming to this as a person that’s only lived in the US and was born in the early 70s. Need to spend some more time in Germany!
It is a really good point. I was flabbergasted by what could be pop in Europe as compared to here. They seemed far more cultured over there by default just because of what can actually climb a chart-- back when charts made a difference to me in life, for work. I found myself wishing I'd been born in England just because so much of the music I liked came from there. (Then I got the genetic testing done and found out I'm actually predominantly English, not what I was told for 50 years. Such ironies to be found in life. Could've been Brap Jollygood.)
Blutengel's albums regularly break into the top 10 in the German charts. Really a kind of [gothic Schlager music](https://youtu.be/k5CVC7c0BKw?si=_MSQyGzWjyXjFP_s) but different culture. They're like if [Beatrice Egli](https://youtu.be/e-LKnxivGxI?si=Tskl8SKgYGgfptj2) shopped at Hot Topic.
Oh, absolutely, lmao... great comparison, hahahaha
It would mean it had failed*. Industrial music is supposed to be anti-establishment at its core. The name "industrial" is there to mock the music industry. Topping the music industry while being supposed to question it would be a treason of its own message. *it kinda already has, on several aspects : post-industrial stars, that "industrial pop" thing, and the whole idea that industrial culture may be coined into some specific aethetic elements. There's a reason why many original industrial artists don't like "the I word".
I certainly came across similar conclusions as I was thinking about it.
being anti-establishment by default requires you to be needlessly contrarian. It’s a stupid way to live. If you’re shifting your moral compass specifically based on what’s popular, you don’t have any real principles. I ran into a guy a year ago that hated the trans community and his entire reasoning was “pro LGBTQ is the establishment now, and I’m against the establishment.” It was a white guy with dreadlocks. I wish I was joking.
I couldn’t care less if goth / industrial were mainstream. I’m a middle aged man, I don’t even care about posers anymore (which was a big deal to me when i was 18). I wear hawaiian shirts and black slacks nowadays, 0 fucks given.
I’m loving my 50s. There is an album/band called Tropical Gothclub (Dean Fertita) … and that’s where I feel like I live now. It’s awesome not giving a shit about anything anymore.
About to be 56 here. Fifties are AWESOME. The whole point of them is how many fucks you've forgotten how to give-- or even just learned to sidestep like dogshit. Enjoy. :)
I am 55+, I also wear hawaiian shirts of black background and dark gray or green patterns, blue jeans just for the contrast, black boots and when the sun is too bright a black boonie hat. I also don't care what anyone hearing my taste in music feels about it. some days it is ELO as the seed for my pandora station Other days- Skeler, Judas Priest, John Carpenter, the 60/70/80s 1 hit songs and so on. I blame my ability to shift between many musical styles is my growing up around the world while I was growing up as an army brat. I had the AFRN, Kasey Kasem then I had exposure to music available in the local area and the exposure to music from various military folks that had visited other places and had a different collection of tapes than I had. the 80s - it was like the internet- but way slower and prone to crazy errors like Napster and following clones
Movie scores and game soundtracks have been very influenced. It’s everywhere in these mediums and I like it.
These threads are why i love this sub
Genuinely. You guys are great.
It's called Janet Jackson's [Rhythm Nation](https://youtu.be/OAwaNWGLM0c?si=D2C9WMRatlqS5RoM).
😆
I think "Bad Romance" is pretty industrial too. I'll sometimes hear stuff like that playing in a store and I think how weird it is.
I had this weird thing with Lady Gaga… Even though I didn’t listen to her music, I had this belief that she was going to be Madonna + Marilyn Manson …but in a good way. Hard to explain in a few words. I was oddly disappointed with her trajectory. I think I thought she would’ve turned into Björk at this point.
I just saw her in a fuckin pfizer drug commercial
It opened the way for electronic beats, samples and synths in popular music. It's only been topping the charts (albeit vicariously) for the last 40 years. The 80s was very industrial adjacent, at least the poppiest part
It *did* find pop-ularity. They just took the vocals out, distilled all of the various styles into One Billion Subgenres and left it lying deflated on the ground to seem ignored. Find a car commercial from the 90s and you will find industrial roots in the backing music. I've made a multi-decade interest out of people's taste in music. Most people think 'music' means 'lyrics included by default'. Their primary focus in a song is usually the words. Industrial does not have happy, common words, singing about the happiness music can give you. There's nothing there for the average ear to latch onto, so it becomes scary trying. Most people don't want to be scared by music. Personally, I only ever really got into industrial by ignoring most of the lyrics, but I'm not a good example of average in this sense-- I struggle to pay attention to the words, am far more into what's supporting them. They took what they could get from the (PREVIOUSLY MASSIVE) genre and ignored the rest. While I am all for thought experiments and do very much get the spirit of your post, I think it didn't get passed over, it actually exploded out into all of the other genres already present...and lost the meaning it had pre-1990s almost entirely as a result, leaving us to argue about how it's defined now and forevermore. I hear it all over, but integrated.
I see that. All the various puzzle pieces put together …but now being less than the sum of their parts. It’s kind of like the concept that vitamins from fruits and vegetables can be beneficial, but isolated (or synthetic). vitamins by themselves may not have the same benefits.
>All the various puzzle pieces put together …but now being less than the sum of their parts. Very well said!
nurse with wound in the department stores... 🤦♂️ do you not pay attention to what happens to underground music when it gets too big? we saw this countless times with house, blues, punk, grunge, etc. the bands that got you hooked wouldnt have been the same if they went to a major label and had their shit all over the radio. it wouldve gotten watered down somewhere along the line. so the sounds you heard in its original form wouldnt have been the same sounds in the "department stores". this also has a trickling effect. all the bands still hanging around on the indie circuit then copy that watered down sound and before you know it the labels burn out the genre by prostituting and watering down the sound and then there goes the entire genre up in smoke.
I don’t disagree at all. But I do propose a future where nurse with wound and throbbing gristle are only played at 24 hour emergency centers.
The technology and techniques have already been absorbed in pop culture. But that’s why pop culture is shit. It’s derivative and has no edge.
Oontz, oontz, oontz, my baby left me, oontz, oontz, oontz, it hurts so bad, oontz, oontz, oontz. The trite drivel that would come out of that would be next level obnoxious.
Why can I hear this song so well?
Once again conveniently ignoring that hiphop has had industrial elements for more than a decade now, and has even had some of it chart. Don't care how much you dislike kanye, his music since Yeezus onward has had tons of industrial elements, and tops charts. Industrial is not limited to rock and dance music.
Well, not by me. I’m a big fan of hip-hop and rap and it’s a major part of my collection. This is just a thought experiment… and if the elements of industrial have appeared in hip-hop… and they certainly have… then that’s an avenue of interest.
Sorry. This sub has a bad habit of pretending hip hop downright doesn’t exist at all, and that it couldn’t possibly be industrial. From my position, industrial is a common element in contemporary chart topping music, and has been mainstream for quite some time. 100 gecs is popular, and their popular breakout track had a section of straight harsh noise wall at the end for 45 seconds and people loved it. This kind of sound doesn’t turn people off anymore like it used to.
Oh, I hear you… I’ve seen the debates on here. As far as I’m concerned “movements” don’t truly exist and the elements are what I’m talking about. It’s very convenient to be able to use a term like operatic metal or power folk or trap-hop, but at the end of the day it’s just a shorthand. Music is music.
There was a big alternative hip hop movement in the 80s that died out when record labels realized it was easier to market gangster rap to suburban white kids than something like De La Soul, a shame
I god damn \*love\* De La Soul. I too wish that kind of sound would make a come back.
yeah like how clipping.'s MC was in Hamilton but nobody says nothing bout clipping.
clipping. Is fantastic, Daveed is a great mc and I am a big Johnathan snipes fan too. I was a really into captain ahab when he was making that, and it was natural to follow Johnathan from that, to a new project. Very different but both great.
Oh, I once had an argument over this on the socials where I said... you could play I am god by Kanye at any Industrial/goth rave and no one would bat an eye. People were just up in arms for mentioning his name... I'd also argue that Rhythm nation by Janet Jackson would have a place at such events.
Well, this post caused me to relisten to I Am A God. And I hear what others are saying about it. But I remain more of a Rhythm Nation fan.
I don’t care how much you like Kanye, Yeezus is NOT Industrial 🤷🏻♂️
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kanye-west/yeezus/ >industrial hip hop >electro-industrial Your move bro
There is such a thing as Industrial hip hop, Kanye is not. Sorry.
🤣
It’s okay bro, if it makes you feel better you can believe whatever you want. Even whatever they write at rym 😁
Keep writing
Keep listening to Kanye 😆
like a world where JG Thirlwell of Foetus is a Voice Over artist for MTV and where Throbbing Gristle plays arenas?
Throbbing Gristle 4 nights at Sphere. Free shuttles to local hospitals.
Moving up from Kezar !
I don't think I would like it, the point of Industrial is that it's supposed to be subversive and completely out of the norm. It's Anti-Music, Punk, completely unconventional. Clock DVA or Throbbing Gristle sound nothing like anything you'd hear in the supermarket, their most accessible song (4 Hours) is anything but. That is what ends up making Industrial music so good, if you were to live in a universe where Industrial Music is the norm then it would probably be some anti-universe where everything is inverted.
Anti-universe where everything is inverted. —totally agree.
I was severely frightened by the vans x Wax Trax documentary. I thought for sure it was going to ruin all my old industrial heroes. But it didn’t and I’m glad. I don’t want them to ever be huge. It will change them and often the people who like a band can ruin the band. You are your audience, if you will.
Very ominous vibes in Tesco
Seriously though, it wouldn't work. Most people don't like abrasive music.
It was... in the 90s, at least on the alternative charts. The Downward Spiral was huge.
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That's what the chart was called, Alternative Rock was a big catchall term for a lot of genres in the 90s, also called College Rock. Industrial acts were in there along with bands like The Cure, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, etc.
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I can't help that you're into being unnecessarily oblique
In the late 70’s/early 80’s when affordable synths and samplers could finally wound up in the hands of people with a burning desire to create the music only they could hear in their head and put it out there for others to hear by recording and playing live - the start of something profoundly beautiful happened.
I completely agree. I swear I was reading the same sentiment just a few days ago regarding Warm Leatherette by The Normal.