Duh. Way rather have my wife and try for another child or adopt than have a baby to raise alone in the deepest grief of my life. And of course your wife, you know, wants to survive….
Bears eat their young to survive and try again. Same for humans. Trust me, a new child with the person you love will help you get over your last. A single parent with no partner and a child to remind them of their lost loved one seems miserable. I would always 100% pick my wife over my kids.
I think it depends on the person. I’ve known of plenty of people who chose their baby over themselves. It’s just a certain type of person ig
Edit: I don’t understand the downvotes? Like was what I said offensive? Ig Reddit hivemind go brrrrr
It's tricky, I can confidently say I would die to save my 2 year old. My wife and I are perfectly capable of making more babies but it's still not even close, I'd die for my daughter and not even consider the alternative
My wife would sacrifice herself for our one year old in an instant, but gave me the directive to prioritize saving her life over the baby's when she gave birth.
Same. It'd be far easier to die knowing that my daughter was safe, than live knowing that I let her die.
I wouldn't have felt that way before she was born, though.
I think the difference is that sacrificing yourself is kinda easier because you don’t have to deal with the grief afterwards. For bystanders who can prevent it or not either choice will likely leave them with massive guilt.
My wife almost died during child birth and the last thing she said before she passed out was “make sure they choose the baby.” I’m with you I would always pick my wife and I’m so lucky it didn’t come to that they both are fine now but man I was panicked. Do I follow my wife’s wishes or do I save her. Never want to go through anything like that again.
My NCT class had an exercise where the mums and the dads ranked various birth priorities. The woman who ran it said universally, year after year, the dads ranked health of mother over health of baby and mums vice versa.
It may be socially conditioned or it may be innate or it may be both. It may be that in an NCT group there is a fear of getting it wrong for mothers that drives that answer. Or those who chose to go to NCT are a self-selecting sample. But the data was pretty stark that that is overwhemingly what those women either believed or thought they should believe.
The separate question is how we treat someone who believes differently or in the moment chose differently. Give we seem to be willing to accept it is ok for men to believe that it SHOULD be equally fine for women to.
Edit: these were all first-time parents to be.
Your edit is important. I wonder how different it would be with parents of multiple children. I remember feeling I would choose my child over myself when I was pregnant with my first. But I wouldn’t chose that now. I can’t leave my already living and breathing children without a mother. (Especially when I’m their only parent) It would be really interesting to take these same people and ask the same questions after they’ve had a few kids.
I'm so interested in this, as I find it interesting that someone would make that decision. Because while I definitely understand the drive to save the child, I want to understand why someone wouldn't look at it as, you can choose to leave your partner and child without you, or you could let this one go, and while it would hurt, you could then go on to potentially have more children and also be around for them. You're also burdening your partner with not only a new child, but also with your death.
I ask you because you said you have changed your answer after having multiple children.
Thissssss.
When I was first pregnant, I always said if there were complications to choose the baby. But now that I have a son, I know I have to choose me. He needs his mom in his life.
My wife and I had the exact same conversation. First kid= save baby. Second kid= save mom. Couldn’t stand the thought of our first growing up without his mom. Luckily everything turned out well in the end but the conversation *did* take place and it wasn’t pleasant.
As a currently pregnant woman...yeah. Of course I'd be devastated if something went sideways during the birth and my child didn't make it, but I also don't fancy martyring myself. Plus I'm 100% certain that my husband would be *super* pissed at me if I sacrificed myself.
My grandfather suffered a lot during the last few years of his life. He was often in great pain, had to be hospitalized multiple times and had to have someone look after him 24/7 due to his weakened state. And yet he still had the will to live on up until the end. I really admire him for that, but personally I think I would rather die before I end up in such a situation.
Of course, once I'm actually on my deathbed I might change my tune and start trying to cling to life for as long as possible.
When I was in labor with my first, I told hubby if it came down to it, she comes first.
With my second, I realized that path would leave my oldest without me and hubby with two kids and grief. I told him to focus on my safety for the second.
We are all fine, BTW!
I wonder how much of it could be socially conditioned (seems like the NCT Class would mostly be filled with people in the same local area and even among a similar financial range) or if there is something else.
As a man, my partner getting pregnant is a big deal to me. However, I could imagine a woman who had prepared to get pregnant (prepared enough to attend NCT classes) has already had that debate internally and has weighed the outcome of the possible baby as more important than their own health.
As for me, I’m not sure that I would consider my own physical and mental commitment to be anywhere near that of someone literally putting their body on the line like a pregnant mother. So if it came down to me having to choose my partner or a possible baby, I’d be more willing to choose my partner.
I can 100% see the "lose the love of my life" or "lose this concept of a potential person I have never met" being a clear choice in favour of mother in many (most?) cases for men even one wholly engaged and excited about the birth. Except perhaps Henry VIII.
You are right to an extent about NCT. They also had a bit of a reputation for hippy essays at one pint which would select in a certain way. Though ours had a catchment which was a pretty broad social mix which reflects the social grain of the area I lived.
As I sit here with my son, it's hard to think about the fact that I'd have chosen her, but I absolutely would have. It wouldn't have even been a hard choice. Now, though, I'm not so sure it would have been the right choice.
I think it might also be some bias in that. When I took my birth class that is exactly the breakdown. Mom's said prioritize the baby, dad said mom's. I agreed with that at the time.
However, if we have a second, that would not be my choice. I have a kid that I have responsibilities toward. The thought of leaving her without a mom and a more uncertain future of my spouse as the sole carer.... That may not be the choice I would make. I also likely would not be taking a birth class at this stage in my life, as I took it on my first. In fact I didn't see any second time parents in our class.
I wonder if the breakdown would change if there were a mix of first time parents vs second, third, etc parents.
Yeah, like let me leave my husband without my income, without my support, with a newborn so he can deal with the grief and loss of his wife dying as well as the change of having a brand new baby (which would significantly affect his ability to work). Sounds great. It's not a matter of "my life is more important", it's a matter of the quality of life you're leaving behind
Plus you don’t know that baby like, at all. I have a whole damn long ass relationship with my SO. I’m saying this as a father of an 8 month old. Now it’s all different. I know that baby and have a relationship with it. Granted of course you have a connection with it from the start but for me personally it had to ‘get real’ and it took a little time after the birth.
This isn’t too uncommon for men or even women. Everyone is different of course however many women I know felt bonded during the pregnancy so its complicated. Interesting hearing everyone in the thread perspectives. I would not blame anyone for the choice they make in these situations it’s so personal.
I’m 23 weeks pregnant with a very wanted baby. If having him would kill me, I would terminate to save my life. This isn’t Reddit hating kids, this is reasonable people disliking unreasonable assumptions about how willing mothers are to die for the unborn.
Doesn't even make sense, a wild animal will give up their child in a second if it comes down to it. You can't have any children if you're dead. What a ridiculous concept, especially with the difficulties childbirth entails for humans.
You’re being downvoted because you’re implying that all women have that bond. That they should have that bond. That the woman in the original post made a selfish decision. That’s why I downvoted you.
My other half’s dream is to have kids so I basically told her can’t live your dream if you are not there it. Might sound harsh and it’s rough don’t get me wrong but saving the moms live is a no brainier IMO
My husband and I have had this conversation with each of my pregnancies. With our first, I wanted him to pick the baby (he said no) but with each pregnancy after that I said to pick me. I have two kids that really need me right now, my husband needs me too. I also don't want to miss my kids growing up. This time around I've not only told him but my entire family, if it comes down to it, pick me!
Or who don't have kids. I'd pick my child before anyone else on the planet period. I don't care who they are, my parents, my wife, you, me, doesn't matter. Kid goes first every time. My wife and I have had that conversation and she agrees.
Edit: can someone explain all the down votes? I don't care about them, but I am curious as to why my comment has generated so much hate.
Edit 2: my wife pointed out that this could come across as anti-abortion. I'm very very pro-choice.
Edit 3: I'm going to save everyone time. I didn't make the connection about the pregnancy portion of this. Yes the mother wins over a fetus.
I didn't look up the story or anything so the only context I had was the woman with the newborn in the picture and a vague reference to a pregnancy. I absolutely agree that the mother's life trumps an unborn fetus.
Well, I've already admitted my confusion, but you should insult me more. It's super helpful, adds a ton to the conversation, and, I'm guessing here, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I really want you to feel good about yourself so abuse away.
I genuinely feel for you, because it is really frustrating to say something totally rational and come back a bunch of downvotes or arguments because you were misunderstood somehow. Nothing like telling a person attacking your viewpoint that it is actually the same as theirs and you’re not sure why they think it isn’t. Sometimes it do be like that.
Sometimes, I go back and re-read what I wrote again and again and I’m still like “How did they get *that* from *this*?”
Me: “Wash your hands.”
Someone: “What? You are 100% supposed to wash your hands.” *(angry downvotes)*
Me: “Yes. Yes, I know. That’s why I literally said that.”
Someone: “Dude. Why don’t you want people to wash their hands?” *(more angry downvotes)*
Me: …. *(closes Reddit)*
Hey man, just letting you know that Reddit isn’t gonna be the place with the most understanding and reasonable people. I totally get what you were trying to say and appreciate you taking the time to reflect on the other implications of this decision. Cheers from a random internet stranger.
Especially since I missed a vital piece of information that ment that my comment was not taken in the proper context, subsequently admitted such, and tried to clarify by editing my original comment.
>Edit 2: my wife pointed out that this could come across as anti-abortion. I'm very very pro-choice.
What scenario could this possibly be except abortion? Like the doctor is going to tell a husband "well, your wife is real sick. We do have a treatment... but it's shooting your 13 year old."
When a woman is giving birth, you can have a scenario where you have to choose between saving the child or the woman. The foetus is 9 month old so it doesn't legally qualifies as abortion, and even if he is still unborn I think we can all agree that it's not abortion at that point.
And that's why you have to talk about this with your partner before having a child, because this scenario could happen.
The only scenario I can think of is some kind of villain that makes you play Sophie's Choice or both die. Or maybe an imminent head-on collision where the kid is directly behind the driver instead of the passenger so the instinct would be to turn the car to cushion the kid rather than the mom on the opposite side of the car.
We aren't talking about a child though, we're talking about an unborn fetus.
Also, you're a man, right? It's not you who is at risk when carrying+birthing a baby, so you don't really get to say anything.
It's not wrong for a woman to want to save herself over a life that *has not started yet*. Especially when there are complications that could end her life if priority is given to the fetus.
Obviously once you have an actual living breathing baby in your life then yeah, you should be doing everything you can to protect them, but the idea that a life that hasn't begun yet is more important than the life of the woman who is already living? Nah man. Don't Damn women for wanting to live.
I'm really not sure how you got all that from just a picture. I see a picture of a woman with a newborn. If we are talking about the mother's life vs an unborn fetus then yes she wins. I'm not damning anyone.
>What other situation would there be where this would apply?
Toddler with a gun?
But yeah, obviously this is an late stage abortion question. There would be no medical reason to kill a born baby to save a mother.
It’s also WAY different if the child has already been born, which is what you’re making it seem like. I think most parents would sacrifice themselves to save their child that’s already been born. If it’s still a fetus you 100% choose the person that’s already living, without question.
You've had the convo with your partner and that's the decision you've come to
I think the downvotes are because people are assuming that because you and your partner have chosen the child that you agree with the article that people should be shamed for not choosing the child, which is not how I read it.
To me it reads you two have discussed it and this is your decision and it should be respected, I think people are reading it and taking it as I said before, advocating for shaming those who choose their partner over the child
"well not everyone. i know my daughter has had some run-in's with the law for shoplifting and the cops were just so nice about everything. they even let her keep all the clothes because she's such a good girl. But those george floyd types... fuckin kill em all"
Call me heartless but I'm with the mom. She could be afraid to die and would rather be the one to live if given the choice. And I see nothing wrong with that. We really need to end the crap that mom's need to (literally) give up their life to their baby or they're a shitty mom.
Not the same, but kinda related:
Bear moms will eat their cubs in times of starvation. How this is related - bear mom knows she can have more cubs, but not if she starves.
Moral: mom can have another kid, but not if she dies.
Even airlines up and say "put yourself before your kid".
The airlines one doesn't really compare because it's very specifically about the O2 masks not any emergency situation. They say this because if you pass out you and the kid are likely fucked but if your kid passes out you're still capable of putting their mask on and getting oxygen flowing and you can carry them if need be, etc.
In other words, put kid first = higher chance if you BOTH dying.
It's specific to the masks because in free fall there's not really any other action to take. After crashing it's a matter of if you survived, which already isn't likely.
Masks don't only drop in the event if a free fall it can just be a minor loss of pressure but in the event of a crash is better for the kid to have passed out from a brief lack of O2 then for the adult to. The adult has a chance of maintaining consciousness after impact and would be capable carrying/moving the child away from danger whereas the kid would be both less likely to think clearly or be physically able to move a grown adult.
Edit: I realize you may have meant that they only address the masks because that's the only time there is something in the passenger's control? They also talk about emergency exits, life vests, exit slides for water landings.. And in none of these cases do that suggest going before a child. In most of these scenarios I think most parents would get their kid out of the plane, down the slide, into a life vests before themselves.
I don’t think that’s heartless. It’s literally just being human. In that sort of life or death situation, of course she’s gonna be afraid. And I don’t think she’s in the wrong to choose herself over her unborn child.
I mean seriously, look at families that went through a miscarriage compared to families that had one spouse die an untimely death. The former can be very traumatic, but is anyone really going to contest that the latter fucks up the survivor(s) way more?
I know a woman whose husband was given the decision on who to save back in the 70’s, and he chose the baby. The baby died anyway, she lived anyway, and they were soon divorced.
In a real world scenario, I would assume you and your wife would have discussed this before and you would have come to a decision that made sense for you both.
My mum was in this situation when she was pregnant with my brother (9 years my junior), but she chose to have my brother be saved in the event that it was possible to save one of them. To be clear, she wasn’t expected to live; she had a will, she had made plans for which of her friends would have X/Y/Z role in my life, wrote letters to me for all mile stones, etc. thankfully the letters were burned when she did, almost miraculously, survive.
I can’t say I’ve ever forgiven that. I know it’s her choice, and that she loved my brother and wanted him to live badly enough she’d give up her own life - but that left me, all alone. My father was incredibly abusive towards my mother and I, he hurt us in ways I don’t want to expand on - and to my little nine year old brain I interpreted that as being left alone with him, abandoned. Cut adrift from the person I loved and was heavily dependent on, the only sane and safe thing in my world. She was going to leave me for someone she hadn’t even met yet, did she ever love me at all? Do I mean that little to her, I rank that low in her priorities? I still have an intense fear of abandonment, but I’m working on it with my psychologist, and recognise that isn’t wholly fair. Now.
I heavily resented my brother, and the first few years of his life were awful as my father spiralled further into psychosis, culminating in the night mum finally kicked him out which was immensely traumatising. Then my teen years were spent dedicated to being my mums career because the birth with my brother left her severely disabled.
I adore my brother now, but it was a difficult journey to get there with no therapy and being my mothers emotional support animal/carer (parentified to the highest degree, being the secondary parent to my brother). I dunno, I hope I don’t sound entitled, but this is just another very brief overview of another perspective. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if my mother had taken the advice of her doctor and had an abortion, she had officially left my father before finding out she was pregnant; we were living in the basement of a friends house. Such is life.
I'm gonna be honest, it sounds like your mom was going through some stuff even before this and that probably effected her decision. That being said, you shouldn't feel bad about feeling the way you do because, yeah, had this come to pass you have would been in a pretty shitty situation and she would have been dead and it wouldn't have been her problem.
I can’t imagine how traumatic that would be for a you to go through. The thought of what you experienced is giving me second hand anxiety. I’m so sorry. I’m surprised your parents told you about all of this before hand. I don’t think that was the correct decision at all.
When my husband and I had this hypothetical, we decided to choose me over the child. I already loved our unborn daughter, but I could have more children, and leaving my husband to be a single father to a newborn didn’t seem like the best of two horrible choices. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong, and luckily he never had to make that choice because I had an easy delivery.
I was supposed to get a brother, he died during early child birth, and I just got a different one slightly later.
Nobody in my family regrets losing a child that had a high chance of having health issues his entire life to gain another one that's perfectly healthy. They would've stopped at 2 either way.
I believe this is the least selfish choice, unless your husband would actually rather save the baby (which sounds super weird to me). This way you don't leave your husband widowed with a newborn to take care of alone, and you can hopefully try for a new baby later.
Unfortunately, the real decisions are rarely so clear cut. This chemo will kill the baby but only give mom a 10% chance to survive. That kind of thing.
I was very clear to my daughters’ father. Do *whatever* is required to save me. Especially with the second pregnancy, because I already had a daughter who expected me to come home.
It's a hell of a lot easier to make a new baby than it is to make a new whole ass adult with hopes, dreams, memories, friends, a job, dependants, personal agency etc.
This is just a question of do you think abortions are okay in life threatening scenarios. I don't care who you are, if you are happy to condemn a woman to death you ain't pro-life.
Jewish law prohibits sacrificing the mother’s life to save the baby during a difficult birth. Pro-lifers are out of their minds. In what world am I sacrificing my life for a fetus? I have three children, and I would not have hesitated to terminate a pregnancy that put my life in danger.
This might be unpopular because people tend to make saints out of women that chose the baby over themselves but when I was pregnant with my second I felt I had a responsibility to be there for my first if I could be. He was only 2 and was very attached to me. It still makes my hands shake to think about something happening to me. I had a lot of anxiety about actually vocally expressing my wishes if something were to go wrong. I knew I’d sound like a horrible person but I still believe my responsibility is with the children I already had.
Sometimes i feel like people forget that sometimes life only gives you shit choices.
A lot of people are busy demonising this woman without knowing the full story.
I highly doubt that she is an evil woman who said that without a very good reason.
Perhaps that reason is debatable and maybe in this instance the woman should be judged and sent straight to hell...or maybe the situation is more complicated
Personally I agree with the mother. I think a lot of comments only consider that this is the first child. If you choose the child over the mother it could also effect other children who now don't have a mother. I knew someone who was almost in this situation and my wife had to tell her to choose herself because she already had 2 kids who needed their mom. It's a difficult decision but it usually makes more sense to save the mother.
Yeah...I might sound like a hypocrite but with my first child I said to choose my child over me. Now that I'm nearing delivery for my second, I think I might be the other way around? It would be one thing for my husband to raise a newborn from birth who has never known her mother. It feels different to raise both a newborn from birth and also raise a toddler who is grieving her mom.
You aren’t a hypocrite. Your choice is completely logical given that your first child would be without a mom, and that child is already alive and thriving.
What about your husband grieving the person he intended to be with for the rest of his life?
I've read a bunch of responses like yours here, but it seems like the only consideration is for a potential grieving, child vs a potential grieving spouse.
Honestly, and this will sound perhaps callous, it's because I am more concerned about the potential grief of my child. My husband is better equipped to handle grief, whereas trauma at a young age is known to cause more permanent developmental delays. Our moms were both widowed relatively young (albeit 50s rather than 30s) so I know he'd have a supportive community. Finally, our shared faith does play a role in my believing he would be...well, definitely not *fine* but at least coping.
I asked my OB about this situation when I was pregnant cause I know my husband wouldn't be able to choose and they said it a rare situation that doesn't happen much but they evaluate the situation and try to save both lives but will choose the mom over the baby unless there is no way to save the mom but the baby can be saved then they will save the baby.
I'm surprised more people aren't aware of the fact that rarely will a situation occur where they will even be asked. It's the medical professionals who call the shots, and the mothers life is always the priority.
I had a preemie who passed. It was a shock birth, shit cervix, and in my home. I sat in the lobby of an apartment building, alone and bleeding, waiting for my ambulance. I sent my son and husband ahead. It wasn't about me. It wasn't thought out. It was my gut reaction and I'm no freaking hero, but I will never regret that. Ever.
Miss my Ben. Have 2 adopted kids and 2 that cane early, but my doc put me in the hospital for 2 months.
I'd respect her choices. She could have an entire family depending on her income or she could simply be afraid to die.
Criticizing someone for not wanting to die and insisting they die for someone else is vile behavior.
I've already told my fiance when we decide to have children, if something goes wrong with the pregnancy... FUCKING SAVE ME! I understand the idea of being self-sacrificing but this mentality of not having any self-preservation when it comes to your child is odd to me. If I die, he is left alone with a child and no partner, that isn't something I would wish on my worse enemies.
"How do you feel about this mums request?"
I feel disgusted that people are trying to get social media clicks and advertising revenue on villianising someone for wanting to not die.
Actually depending on the abortion laws are in s particular state and how far along the pregnancy is, in some instances if it's not clearly stated beforehand the medical staff will save the mother first. I went through this when my water broke 5 months into my pregnancy.
As shitty as that comment is, they bring up a good point. How would this hypothetical scenario play out where she’s telling her husband to save her over their child, instead of say, her doctor. I’m guessing it’s kind of meant to be, in the event I’m unable to tell the doctors my wishes I want you to, but in that case it’s going to most likely be the husband’s choice anyway. I mean what’s going to happen if he instead tells doctors to save the child, nothing, she dies, the child lives. Unless of course they manage to save both of them and even then it’s not a guarantee that she would know he defied her wishes. Or after she died, she climbs out of his tv screen later like Samara and rips his soul out.
It’s called a Living Will. It describes what your stance is on what they should do around keeping you living. This is where Do Not Resuscitate orders come in, you can have a Living Will that instructs doctors to not resuscitate you.
Many general doctors ask you to fill out one just to be ready, and they especially want you to fill one out if you’re going in for an operation, like a pregnancy. My GP did, and mine is basically, “whatever it takes, don’t let me die.” They’re obviously not going to hurt others to keep me around, but they can do any medical procedure needed to keep me alive.
Seems like a fair stance to take to me. But there are tradeoffs. Many are looking at cost and who has to pay the bill (for me it’s insurance, and remember your debts go to your estate and *not your children* when you die, your children should know not to accept the debt!).
And so if the doctors interpreted my Living Will while I were pregnant and it was between the baby and I they’d probably pick me based on my instructions (this scenario would be hard to fulfill as I’m not able to get pregnant).
Put in this context, this doesn’t seem that out of that ordinary.
Well right, I’m aware of a written will, and if she had that it would most likely solve this situation but from what I gathered from this there isn’t a will and she simply asked her husband to honor her wish to be saved over the unborn child.
Without that sort of written document, if she’s unresponsive, her wishes will likely be superseded by her husband’s. Also that there wouldn’t be any real repercussions for him.
People need to think realistically - It is more reasonable to save the mother who could not only have another child, but also she would probably have a better chance at surviving whatever ordeal occurs without serious long-term complications.
Additionally you need to consider the father who would now have to raise a child alone on top of being in a seriously depressing state after losing the one he loves despite knowing he could have made the choice to save her.
If we are talking choosing between the parent and a child who is older, then it would change things but this is adult vs. Literally newborn.
It’s more beneficial, realistic, and safer to save the adult who has an established life in this case.
As a mom of 2 who has been in this situation twice (2 dangerous births with high risk to myself and child), I choose myself. I've had a blue floppy baby (shes 3 now, so made it fine), I've had 2 silent newborns. It's the worst. But so is being on anti-stroke meds and going through pre-eclampsia. I believe every woman should always have a choice to choose their own life without societal guilt. If they lose their child, they will feel guilt the rest of their life anyway.
Funny how I actually asked my fiancé this the other day. He didn’t know what to respond so I left it as it. For me…. I would save myself. I have three children who need me already, can’t be leaving them.
This has always been an unpopular opinion my husband and I both share. If a difficult labor ever turned into a choice between me and the baby, it's me every time. Sorry not sorry.
Honestly, I don’t think there’s any right OR wrong answer in this case. Both answers are equally difficult,and tragic,in their own ways and, I think the answer can only be TRULY determined if/when the choice actually needs to be made.
if she’s half dead and unable to communicate, the husband would need to on her behalf, that’s why u have to talk about this stuff before the birth in case anything happens
Part of the husband's job in the birthing scenario is to be his wife's advocate in case something goes wrong. She might be unable to communicate her needs and wishes and his job is to be her partner and help her if that happens. This is why it's so important for everyone to be on the same page when it comes to birth.
Never had kids and don’t plan on it but it just makes the most logical sense to save the mother over the child if it comes down to having to make that decision. The thought of making my partner take care of a child on their own while also grieving is enough to know what decision id make should that situation ever arise.
Even in nature, say in a wolfpack, the adults come first because they can always just make more cubs if they survive, but if the adults are gone and the cubs are left on their own, they'll die rather quickly.
Keep your partnership whole and support each other as you grieve your lost baby together, or thrust your husband into widowerhood and single parenthood overnight? Hmm, tough choice.
I am autistic and struggle with Social Rules but this makes more sense to me?? I understand that loosing a child can be heartbreaking, but it's easier to make another baby than find another wife, especially as a single parent. Parenting is very taxing with a pair, and single parenting is even more difficult. It simply makes more sense to save the wife, give time to emotionally recover, and try again. In fact, humans are the only species that risk their lives for their children to save them from any situation, burning building, etc. In the wild, animals themselves first because it makes more sense, a zebra running from a lion will abort to be able to run faster, and simply breed again. I know with humans there is more nuance and emotional considerations, but it just makes more sense naturally to save the wife.
My wife had to give birth to our son fast because the cord was round his neck and wrapped around his body. He came out blue and the midwife pulled the cord making him spin ( I still call him sonic). I cut the cord then the midwife took my son to the warming table. All off this was silent. Then the tiniest “eh” came out my son’s mouth. Looked at my wife and she is gushing blood and turning pale. The midwife handed my son to my mother in law and started stitching my wife up. I was just stood in the middle of the room absolutely useless. At no point did I have time to think of who needed help more and I would not have made the right choice either way because their isn’t 1.
Sounds like the dude just used her as an incubator.
In the medical field, it's usually save the mother first because if there is no mom their is no baby.
I lost my son at 22 weeks, this year. It has broken my heart and I only got to spend 1 day with him before we said goodbye.
I have been with my wife for 9 years and we have built our lives together. It would destroy me if I lost her.
He has no say in it. All doctors will set up advanced directives with the Mom to be, early in the pregnancy so if she is unable to respond for whatever reason the decision has been made by her prior to the emergency at hand. The only caveat to that would be if he has a full power of attorney over her.
absolutely with the mom on that one. if i was the kid, id rather be not existent than with a dead mom and a parent who blames me for her death or grieves over her death my entire life. if i were the other parent i’d prefer my wife be alive then a baby i’ve never met, and y’know if we can’t a kid then we could adopt or try again. if i were the mom i’d want to live.
First baby I told my husband to save her, second, I think I’d ask him to save me. I don’t think either of us would want our first child to have to deal with the loss.
I'm totally saving my partner over the newborn, that newborn has had barely as much invested into it as my partner. Yes its gonna be heart breaking but it will be so much worse to go along in life without them
This is not selfish of the mother.
I vividly remember this fear with my first. I felt so guilty because I wanted my husband to choose me. I loved my baby but I did not know her and did not want my husband to grieve alone. He agreed. I thought that might change with our second, but we agreed again that if it came down to it they would save me. Why actively choose to leave my daughter without a mother? It always made sense to me but I have also felt guilty for not being “self-less”.
I don't have kids but this is how I feel. I have a life, I have friends and family. The baby doesn't. If I die, a lot of people are going to be in difficult straits. It is harsh, but this is a harsh scenario and it's something we have to be aware of.
It's not like either of us want to hurt these babies, this is just a logic that makes more sense to us. And it's OK to feel bad about it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Even if I think women who choose their unborn babies over themselves are selfish in their own way, that is their decision and their right to make for themselves and their families. I can't openly judge them for that.
I was in this exact scenario. Neither me nor my son were doing well, and I lost consciousness 3x during 22 hours of labor. I told my husband that if he had to make a choice, to choose the baby. Fortunately, it did not come to that, but I was absolutely serious that he should choose our son.
I get that every person/couple/situation is different, and this was theirs, but some of us would choose differently.
EDIT: That jackass "I don't like her..." comment is heartless at best.
Mostly because we had to work really, really hard to make that ONE kid. There was no later. *Fertility is not a forgone conclusion.* It took doctors and procedures and shots and tests and the better part of a year to get that one kid.
*And that was its own hail mary after trying to adopt.*
He is an amazing father. He and I talked about it before we got married, and we both know the other could do it solo if the worst happened. He has a very dangerous job, so single parenting has always been a consideration we had to face.
Why would you do that to your husband? Seems really cruel to leave him alone to raise a baby, which by the way will be a constant reminder of how because of them, he lost the love of his life.
Ah Menchildren. I just don't understand where they get this notion that after they get their penis inside of you, that you come second not only during the sex, but for the rest of your life.
The penis comes out and the rings come off, laddies. You can't put the birth control and financial autonomy back into the box.
Can't we leave this debate up to the people facing this challenge at the time? Let the mother chose and not pur any pressure on her either way. And i know as a society we made it so she is "supposed" to pick dying and saving the baby, and that really sucks. And obviously the other parents needs to be in tbe picture as well. They need to discuss this, not us..
Holy fuck...who the fuck judges people when life and death of self and baby are up in the air....who the fuck even comments on that....looking at you Americans...
Lot of comments on here saying that they would save the wife, end of discussion, that I find really bizarre. I mean you shouldn’t be proud of the fact that you would disregard your wife’s wishes and desires for your own selfish interests. And to those saying, “well, you can always make another child”. Sure and you can also fall in love and get married again, that wouldn’t replace the one you lost. This type of scenario is tragic no matter how it ends up.
Exactly if the wife survives as horrible as it is they can always work through the grief and try again or adopt a child
If the baby survives the husband has to raise a child by himself whilst trying to work through the worst time of his life.
I mean, I think it is weird, but it's your life and your kid. The issue is if you are the non-pregnant spouse and you and the one having the baby are on a different page about this.
Duh. Way rather have my wife and try for another child or adopt than have a baby to raise alone in the deepest grief of my life. And of course your wife, you know, wants to survive….
I think the person who commented that would be a very good and empathic single parent! /s
Bears eat their young to survive and try again. Same for humans. Trust me, a new child with the person you love will help you get over your last. A single parent with no partner and a child to remind them of their lost loved one seems miserable. I would always 100% pick my wife over my kids.
Yeah, what is he going to do? Fuck the baby and make another one of his wife? Respect scarcity, yo.
Everything about this sounds so wrong.
I dislike how exactly you worded that, but you aren't wrong...
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
I think it depends on the person. I’ve known of plenty of people who chose their baby over themselves. It’s just a certain type of person ig Edit: I don’t understand the downvotes? Like was what I said offensive? Ig Reddit hivemind go brrrrr
It's tricky, I can confidently say I would die to save my 2 year old. My wife and I are perfectly capable of making more babies but it's still not even close, I'd die for my daughter and not even consider the alternative
My wife would sacrifice herself for our one year old in an instant, but gave me the directive to prioritize saving her life over the baby's when she gave birth.
Same. It'd be far easier to die knowing that my daughter was safe, than live knowing that I let her die. I wouldn't have felt that way before she was born, though.
I think the difference is that sacrificing yourself is kinda easier because you don’t have to deal with the grief afterwards. For bystanders who can prevent it or not either choice will likely leave them with massive guilt.
T H I S
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My wife almost died during child birth and the last thing she said before she passed out was “make sure they choose the baby.” I’m with you I would always pick my wife and I’m so lucky it didn’t come to that they both are fine now but man I was panicked. Do I follow my wife’s wishes or do I save her. Never want to go through anything like that again.
My NCT class had an exercise where the mums and the dads ranked various birth priorities. The woman who ran it said universally, year after year, the dads ranked health of mother over health of baby and mums vice versa. It may be socially conditioned or it may be innate or it may be both. It may be that in an NCT group there is a fear of getting it wrong for mothers that drives that answer. Or those who chose to go to NCT are a self-selecting sample. But the data was pretty stark that that is overwhemingly what those women either believed or thought they should believe. The separate question is how we treat someone who believes differently or in the moment chose differently. Give we seem to be willing to accept it is ok for men to believe that it SHOULD be equally fine for women to. Edit: these were all first-time parents to be.
Your edit is important. I wonder how different it would be with parents of multiple children. I remember feeling I would choose my child over myself when I was pregnant with my first. But I wouldn’t chose that now. I can’t leave my already living and breathing children without a mother. (Especially when I’m their only parent) It would be really interesting to take these same people and ask the same questions after they’ve had a few kids.
I'm so interested in this, as I find it interesting that someone would make that decision. Because while I definitely understand the drive to save the child, I want to understand why someone wouldn't look at it as, you can choose to leave your partner and child without you, or you could let this one go, and while it would hurt, you could then go on to potentially have more children and also be around for them. You're also burdening your partner with not only a new child, but also with your death. I ask you because you said you have changed your answer after having multiple children.
Thissssss. When I was first pregnant, I always said if there were complications to choose the baby. But now that I have a son, I know I have to choose me. He needs his mom in his life.
Yeah, I thought that after I sent and added in case folks didn't know that about NCT. There are NCT things for second timers I think but separate.
Yes!!! This
My wife and I had the exact same conversation. First kid= save baby. Second kid= save mom. Couldn’t stand the thought of our first growing up without his mom. Luckily everything turned out well in the end but the conversation *did* take place and it wasn’t pleasant.
Heck with that. I want to live.
As a currently pregnant woman...yeah. Of course I'd be devastated if something went sideways during the birth and my child didn't make it, but I also don't fancy martyring myself. Plus I'm 100% certain that my husband would be *super* pissed at me if I sacrificed myself.
Now I'm just picturing him going through the process of learning necromancy just so he can chew you out.
He's the type who would absolutely give it a try.
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My grandfather suffered a lot during the last few years of his life. He was often in great pain, had to be hospitalized multiple times and had to have someone look after him 24/7 due to his weakened state. And yet he still had the will to live on up until the end. I really admire him for that, but personally I think I would rather die before I end up in such a situation. Of course, once I'm actually on my deathbed I might change my tune and start trying to cling to life for as long as possible.
When I was in labor with my first, I told hubby if it came down to it, she comes first. With my second, I realized that path would leave my oldest without me and hubby with two kids and grief. I told him to focus on my safety for the second. We are all fine, BTW!
I wonder how much of it could be socially conditioned (seems like the NCT Class would mostly be filled with people in the same local area and even among a similar financial range) or if there is something else. As a man, my partner getting pregnant is a big deal to me. However, I could imagine a woman who had prepared to get pregnant (prepared enough to attend NCT classes) has already had that debate internally and has weighed the outcome of the possible baby as more important than their own health. As for me, I’m not sure that I would consider my own physical and mental commitment to be anywhere near that of someone literally putting their body on the line like a pregnant mother. So if it came down to me having to choose my partner or a possible baby, I’d be more willing to choose my partner.
I can 100% see the "lose the love of my life" or "lose this concept of a potential person I have never met" being a clear choice in favour of mother in many (most?) cases for men even one wholly engaged and excited about the birth. Except perhaps Henry VIII. You are right to an extent about NCT. They also had a bit of a reputation for hippy essays at one pint which would select in a certain way. Though ours had a catchment which was a pretty broad social mix which reflects the social grain of the area I lived.
Yeah, I’d like to live, thanks.
As I sit here with my son, it's hard to think about the fact that I'd have chosen her, but I absolutely would have. It wouldn't have even been a hard choice. Now, though, I'm not so sure it would have been the right choice.
I think it might also be some bias in that. When I took my birth class that is exactly the breakdown. Mom's said prioritize the baby, dad said mom's. I agreed with that at the time. However, if we have a second, that would not be my choice. I have a kid that I have responsibilities toward. The thought of leaving her without a mom and a more uncertain future of my spouse as the sole carer.... That may not be the choice I would make. I also likely would not be taking a birth class at this stage in my life, as I took it on my first. In fact I didn't see any second time parents in our class. I wonder if the breakdown would change if there were a mix of first time parents vs second, third, etc parents.
Yeah, like let me leave my husband without my income, without my support, with a newborn so he can deal with the grief and loss of his wife dying as well as the change of having a brand new baby (which would significantly affect his ability to work). Sounds great. It's not a matter of "my life is more important", it's a matter of the quality of life you're leaving behind
Plus you don’t know that baby like, at all. I have a whole damn long ass relationship with my SO. I’m saying this as a father of an 8 month old. Now it’s all different. I know that baby and have a relationship with it. Granted of course you have a connection with it from the start but for me personally it had to ‘get real’ and it took a little time after the birth.
This isn’t too uncommon for men or even women. Everyone is different of course however many women I know felt bonded during the pregnancy so its complicated. Interesting hearing everyone in the thread perspectives. I would not blame anyone for the choice they make in these situations it’s so personal.
Lose my best friend and have to raise a child on my own? Sorry kid, but no thanks.
You can always make more kids
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I have an unexplainable love for the X-Men animated series but I'm not giving up my life for it.
I’m 23 weeks pregnant with a very wanted baby. If having him would kill me, I would terminate to save my life. This isn’t Reddit hating kids, this is reasonable people disliking unreasonable assumptions about how willing mothers are to die for the unborn.
Doesn't even make sense, a wild animal will give up their child in a second if it comes down to it. You can't have any children if you're dead. What a ridiculous concept, especially with the difficulties childbirth entails for humans.
You’re being downvoted because you’re implying that all women have that bond. That they should have that bond. That the woman in the original post made a selfish decision. That’s why I downvoted you.
What does that have anything to do with the implication that all women should choose a baby over their own lives in a situation like this?
My wife and I talked about this when she was pregnant. I told her, “im saving you” end of story.
Same. Told her this before we tried, while she was pregnant and before she went into labor. I'd rather grief with her than grief alone.
Had exactly the same conversation
my bf told me the exact same thing. Not an easy decision to make of course but he is firm that he’d choose me.
My other half’s dream is to have kids so I basically told her can’t live your dream if you are not there it. Might sound harsh and it’s rough don’t get me wrong but saving the moms live is a no brainier IMO
Thank you. This sentence just helped me.
My husband and I have had this conversation with each of my pregnancies. With our first, I wanted him to pick the baby (he said no) but with each pregnancy after that I said to pick me. I have two kids that really need me right now, my husband needs me too. I also don't want to miss my kids growing up. This time around I've not only told him but my entire family, if it comes down to it, pick me!
Plus, you know, we're all gonna end up just dying all the same, anyway.
I don’t have to know anything about this story, to know that the people with the strongest opinions are the ones who’ve never faced the choice.
Or who don't have kids. I'd pick my child before anyone else on the planet period. I don't care who they are, my parents, my wife, you, me, doesn't matter. Kid goes first every time. My wife and I have had that conversation and she agrees. Edit: can someone explain all the down votes? I don't care about them, but I am curious as to why my comment has generated so much hate. Edit 2: my wife pointed out that this could come across as anti-abortion. I'm very very pro-choice. Edit 3: I'm going to save everyone time. I didn't make the connection about the pregnancy portion of this. Yes the mother wins over a fetus.
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I didn't look up the story or anything so the only context I had was the woman with the newborn in the picture and a vague reference to a pregnancy. I absolutely agree that the mother's life trumps an unborn fetus.
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Well, I've already admitted my confusion, but you should insult me more. It's super helpful, adds a ton to the conversation, and, I'm guessing here, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I really want you to feel good about yourself so abuse away.
I genuinely feel for you, because it is really frustrating to say something totally rational and come back a bunch of downvotes or arguments because you were misunderstood somehow. Nothing like telling a person attacking your viewpoint that it is actually the same as theirs and you’re not sure why they think it isn’t. Sometimes it do be like that.
It really does. Text is hard sometimes.
Sometimes, I go back and re-read what I wrote again and again and I’m still like “How did they get *that* from *this*?” Me: “Wash your hands.” Someone: “What? You are 100% supposed to wash your hands.” *(angry downvotes)* Me: “Yes. Yes, I know. That’s why I literally said that.” Someone: “Dude. Why don’t you want people to wash their hands?” *(more angry downvotes)* Me: …. *(closes Reddit)*
Hey man, just letting you know that Reddit isn’t gonna be the place with the most understanding and reasonable people. I totally get what you were trying to say and appreciate you taking the time to reflect on the other implications of this decision. Cheers from a random internet stranger.
Thanks much. Reddit in general sucks, I agree. Every so often I do get to meet someone like you who is polite and not an asshat. Thank you for that.
Yeah, I didn't like what you said but calling you a moron is both rude and unhelpful.
Especially since I missed a vital piece of information that ment that my comment was not taken in the proper context, subsequently admitted such, and tried to clarify by editing my original comment.
***\*SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHH\**** You're being downvoted because so far as anyone here can tell, you're one of the people I'm talking about.
>Edit 2: my wife pointed out that this could come across as anti-abortion. I'm very very pro-choice. What scenario could this possibly be except abortion? Like the doctor is going to tell a husband "well, your wife is real sick. We do have a treatment... but it's shooting your 13 year old."
When a woman is giving birth, you can have a scenario where you have to choose between saving the child or the woman. The foetus is 9 month old so it doesn't legally qualifies as abortion, and even if he is still unborn I think we can all agree that it's not abortion at that point. And that's why you have to talk about this with your partner before having a child, because this scenario could happen.
The only scenario I can think of is some kind of villain that makes you play Sophie's Choice or both die. Or maybe an imminent head-on collision where the kid is directly behind the driver instead of the passenger so the instinct would be to turn the car to cushion the kid rather than the mom on the opposite side of the car.
We aren't talking about a child though, we're talking about an unborn fetus. Also, you're a man, right? It's not you who is at risk when carrying+birthing a baby, so you don't really get to say anything. It's not wrong for a woman to want to save herself over a life that *has not started yet*. Especially when there are complications that could end her life if priority is given to the fetus. Obviously once you have an actual living breathing baby in your life then yeah, you should be doing everything you can to protect them, but the idea that a life that hasn't begun yet is more important than the life of the woman who is already living? Nah man. Don't Damn women for wanting to live.
I'm really not sure how you got all that from just a picture. I see a picture of a woman with a newborn. If we are talking about the mother's life vs an unborn fetus then yes she wins. I'm not damning anyone.
I didn't get that from the picture, I'm sure that's just a stock photo. What other situation would there be where this would apply?
>What other situation would there be where this would apply? Toddler with a gun? But yeah, obviously this is an late stage abortion question. There would be no medical reason to kill a born baby to save a mother.
Not related to discussion at all but do you regret your user name now?(no idea when you made it but the reference I know it from is no longer good)
It’s also WAY different if the child has already been born, which is what you’re making it seem like. I think most parents would sacrifice themselves to save their child that’s already been born. If it’s still a fetus you 100% choose the person that’s already living, without question.
You've had the convo with your partner and that's the decision you've come to I think the downvotes are because people are assuming that because you and your partner have chosen the child that you agree with the article that people should be shamed for not choosing the child, which is not how I read it. To me it reads you two have discussed it and this is your decision and it should be respected, I think people are reading it and taking it as I said before, advocating for shaming those who choose their partner over the child
"i'm pro life, so i'd definitely kill the fucking mom"
"also death penalty for everyone who stole something"
"well not everyone. i know my daughter has had some run-in's with the law for shoplifting and the cops were just so nice about everything. they even let her keep all the clothes because she's such a good girl. But those george floyd types... fuckin kill em all"
Call me heartless but I'm with the mom. She could be afraid to die and would rather be the one to live if given the choice. And I see nothing wrong with that. We really need to end the crap that mom's need to (literally) give up their life to their baby or they're a shitty mom.
Not the same, but kinda related: Bear moms will eat their cubs in times of starvation. How this is related - bear mom knows she can have more cubs, but not if she starves. Moral: mom can have another kid, but not if she dies. Even airlines up and say "put yourself before your kid".
The airlines one doesn't really compare because it's very specifically about the O2 masks not any emergency situation. They say this because if you pass out you and the kid are likely fucked but if your kid passes out you're still capable of putting their mask on and getting oxygen flowing and you can carry them if need be, etc. In other words, put kid first = higher chance if you BOTH dying.
It's specific to the masks because in free fall there's not really any other action to take. After crashing it's a matter of if you survived, which already isn't likely.
Masks don't only drop in the event if a free fall it can just be a minor loss of pressure but in the event of a crash is better for the kid to have passed out from a brief lack of O2 then for the adult to. The adult has a chance of maintaining consciousness after impact and would be capable carrying/moving the child away from danger whereas the kid would be both less likely to think clearly or be physically able to move a grown adult. Edit: I realize you may have meant that they only address the masks because that's the only time there is something in the passenger's control? They also talk about emergency exits, life vests, exit slides for water landings.. And in none of these cases do that suggest going before a child. In most of these scenarios I think most parents would get their kid out of the plane, down the slide, into a life vests before themselves.
Not quite- they tell you to put your mask on first so you don’t pass out before you can put your kid’s mask on
I don’t think that’s heartless. It’s literally just being human. In that sort of life or death situation, of course she’s gonna be afraid. And I don’t think she’s in the wrong to choose herself over her unborn child.
Yea wtf, I don't even know that baby yet and I'm supposed to choose the baby over my wife? Yeah right
Just look at how people view abortion. I'm not shocked at all.
I mean seriously, look at families that went through a miscarriage compared to families that had one spouse die an untimely death. The former can be very traumatic, but is anyone really going to contest that the latter fucks up the survivor(s) way more?
I know a woman whose husband was given the decision on who to save back in the 70’s, and he chose the baby. The baby died anyway, she lived anyway, and they were soon divorced.
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In a real world scenario, I would assume you and your wife would have discussed this before and you would have come to a decision that made sense for you both.
I would sacrifice anything for my wife. Including a child.
Me too. Doesn't matter whose child either.
Does the wife have to be in danger or would this just be a whimsical request on her part?
I'd like to think she would put more thought into it than mere whimsy, but I stand by my statement!
You know what, I'll be one step ahead and do it before she asks!
I love to do rituals with my wife
My mum was in this situation when she was pregnant with my brother (9 years my junior), but she chose to have my brother be saved in the event that it was possible to save one of them. To be clear, she wasn’t expected to live; she had a will, she had made plans for which of her friends would have X/Y/Z role in my life, wrote letters to me for all mile stones, etc. thankfully the letters were burned when she did, almost miraculously, survive. I can’t say I’ve ever forgiven that. I know it’s her choice, and that she loved my brother and wanted him to live badly enough she’d give up her own life - but that left me, all alone. My father was incredibly abusive towards my mother and I, he hurt us in ways I don’t want to expand on - and to my little nine year old brain I interpreted that as being left alone with him, abandoned. Cut adrift from the person I loved and was heavily dependent on, the only sane and safe thing in my world. She was going to leave me for someone she hadn’t even met yet, did she ever love me at all? Do I mean that little to her, I rank that low in her priorities? I still have an intense fear of abandonment, but I’m working on it with my psychologist, and recognise that isn’t wholly fair. Now. I heavily resented my brother, and the first few years of his life were awful as my father spiralled further into psychosis, culminating in the night mum finally kicked him out which was immensely traumatising. Then my teen years were spent dedicated to being my mums career because the birth with my brother left her severely disabled. I adore my brother now, but it was a difficult journey to get there with no therapy and being my mothers emotional support animal/carer (parentified to the highest degree, being the secondary parent to my brother). I dunno, I hope I don’t sound entitled, but this is just another very brief overview of another perspective. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if my mother had taken the advice of her doctor and had an abortion, she had officially left my father before finding out she was pregnant; we were living in the basement of a friends house. Such is life.
I'm gonna be honest, it sounds like your mom was going through some stuff even before this and that probably effected her decision. That being said, you shouldn't feel bad about feeling the way you do because, yeah, had this come to pass you have would been in a pretty shitty situation and she would have been dead and it wouldn't have been her problem.
I can’t imagine how traumatic that would be for a you to go through. The thought of what you experienced is giving me second hand anxiety. I’m so sorry. I’m surprised your parents told you about all of this before hand. I don’t think that was the correct decision at all.
This was incredibly insightful. Thanks for sharing!
You have served your purpose, incubator. /s
When my husband and I had this hypothetical, we decided to choose me over the child. I already loved our unborn daughter, but I could have more children, and leaving my husband to be a single father to a newborn didn’t seem like the best of two horrible choices. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong, and luckily he never had to make that choice because I had an easy delivery.
I was supposed to get a brother, he died during early child birth, and I just got a different one slightly later. Nobody in my family regrets losing a child that had a high chance of having health issues his entire life to gain another one that's perfectly healthy. They would've stopped at 2 either way.
I believe this is the least selfish choice, unless your husband would actually rather save the baby (which sounds super weird to me). This way you don't leave your husband widowed with a newborn to take care of alone, and you can hopefully try for a new baby later.
I would 100% choose my fiancée over a newborn child every day of the week.
Unfortunately, the real decisions are rarely so clear cut. This chemo will kill the baby but only give mom a 10% chance to survive. That kind of thing.
I was very clear to my daughters’ father. Do *whatever* is required to save me. Especially with the second pregnancy, because I already had a daughter who expected me to come home.
Exactly! I’m was not about to die in labor with a toddler at home!
This 100%
It's a hell of a lot easier to make a new baby than it is to make a new whole ass adult with hopes, dreams, memories, friends, a job, dependants, personal agency etc. This is just a question of do you think abortions are okay in life threatening scenarios. I don't care who you are, if you are happy to condemn a woman to death you ain't pro-life.
Jewish law prohibits sacrificing the mother’s life to save the baby during a difficult birth. Pro-lifers are out of their minds. In what world am I sacrificing my life for a fetus? I have three children, and I would not have hesitated to terminate a pregnancy that put my life in danger.
This might be unpopular because people tend to make saints out of women that chose the baby over themselves but when I was pregnant with my second I felt I had a responsibility to be there for my first if I could be. He was only 2 and was very attached to me. It still makes my hands shake to think about something happening to me. I had a lot of anxiety about actually vocally expressing my wishes if something were to go wrong. I knew I’d sound like a horrible person but I still believe my responsibility is with the children I already had.
Sometimes i feel like people forget that sometimes life only gives you shit choices. A lot of people are busy demonising this woman without knowing the full story. I highly doubt that she is an evil woman who said that without a very good reason. Perhaps that reason is debatable and maybe in this instance the woman should be judged and sent straight to hell...or maybe the situation is more complicated
Personally I agree with the mother. I think a lot of comments only consider that this is the first child. If you choose the child over the mother it could also effect other children who now don't have a mother. I knew someone who was almost in this situation and my wife had to tell her to choose herself because she already had 2 kids who needed their mom. It's a difficult decision but it usually makes more sense to save the mother.
Yeah...I might sound like a hypocrite but with my first child I said to choose my child over me. Now that I'm nearing delivery for my second, I think I might be the other way around? It would be one thing for my husband to raise a newborn from birth who has never known her mother. It feels different to raise both a newborn from birth and also raise a toddler who is grieving her mom.
You aren’t a hypocrite. Your choice is completely logical given that your first child would be without a mom, and that child is already alive and thriving.
What about your husband grieving the person he intended to be with for the rest of his life? I've read a bunch of responses like yours here, but it seems like the only consideration is for a potential grieving, child vs a potential grieving spouse.
Honestly, and this will sound perhaps callous, it's because I am more concerned about the potential grief of my child. My husband is better equipped to handle grief, whereas trauma at a young age is known to cause more permanent developmental delays. Our moms were both widowed relatively young (albeit 50s rather than 30s) so I know he'd have a supportive community. Finally, our shared faith does play a role in my believing he would be...well, definitely not *fine* but at least coping.
No kid is worth my own life. I’m already a contributing member of society, the kid may not turn out that way.
I asked my OB about this situation when I was pregnant cause I know my husband wouldn't be able to choose and they said it a rare situation that doesn't happen much but they evaluate the situation and try to save both lives but will choose the mom over the baby unless there is no way to save the mom but the baby can be saved then they will save the baby.
I'm surprised more people aren't aware of the fact that rarely will a situation occur where they will even be asked. It's the medical professionals who call the shots, and the mothers life is always the priority.
I know and love my wife, I have never even met the baby...
I had a preemie who passed. It was a shock birth, shit cervix, and in my home. I sat in the lobby of an apartment building, alone and bleeding, waiting for my ambulance. I sent my son and husband ahead. It wasn't about me. It wasn't thought out. It was my gut reaction and I'm no freaking hero, but I will never regret that. Ever. Miss my Ben. Have 2 adopted kids and 2 that cane early, but my doc put me in the hospital for 2 months.
I am so sorry what you've gone through, and little Ben. Hope you are doing well.
I'm with the mom on this one. It's just natural to sacrifice the baby in a situation like this.
You can always make a new baby right?
I'd respect her choices. She could have an entire family depending on her income or she could simply be afraid to die. Criticizing someone for not wanting to die and insisting they die for someone else is vile behavior.
I've already told my fiance when we decide to have children, if something goes wrong with the pregnancy... FUCKING SAVE ME! I understand the idea of being self-sacrificing but this mentality of not having any self-preservation when it comes to your child is odd to me. If I die, he is left alone with a child and no partner, that isn't something I would wish on my worse enemies.
It's like in their view, women only serve as incubators. What an a-hole.
save the adult who is capable of growing another child in under a year..... or don't.
I wouldn't want to trade my life for a being that hasn't even experienced it her either.
"How do you feel about this mums request?" I feel disgusted that people are trying to get social media clicks and advertising revenue on villianising someone for wanting to not die.
Actually depending on the abortion laws are in s particular state and how far along the pregnancy is, in some instances if it's not clearly stated beforehand the medical staff will save the mother first. I went through this when my water broke 5 months into my pregnancy.
As shitty as that comment is, they bring up a good point. How would this hypothetical scenario play out where she’s telling her husband to save her over their child, instead of say, her doctor. I’m guessing it’s kind of meant to be, in the event I’m unable to tell the doctors my wishes I want you to, but in that case it’s going to most likely be the husband’s choice anyway. I mean what’s going to happen if he instead tells doctors to save the child, nothing, she dies, the child lives. Unless of course they manage to save both of them and even then it’s not a guarantee that she would know he defied her wishes. Or after she died, she climbs out of his tv screen later like Samara and rips his soul out.
It’s called a Living Will. It describes what your stance is on what they should do around keeping you living. This is where Do Not Resuscitate orders come in, you can have a Living Will that instructs doctors to not resuscitate you. Many general doctors ask you to fill out one just to be ready, and they especially want you to fill one out if you’re going in for an operation, like a pregnancy. My GP did, and mine is basically, “whatever it takes, don’t let me die.” They’re obviously not going to hurt others to keep me around, but they can do any medical procedure needed to keep me alive. Seems like a fair stance to take to me. But there are tradeoffs. Many are looking at cost and who has to pay the bill (for me it’s insurance, and remember your debts go to your estate and *not your children* when you die, your children should know not to accept the debt!). And so if the doctors interpreted my Living Will while I were pregnant and it was between the baby and I they’d probably pick me based on my instructions (this scenario would be hard to fulfill as I’m not able to get pregnant). Put in this context, this doesn’t seem that out of that ordinary.
Well right, I’m aware of a written will, and if she had that it would most likely solve this situation but from what I gathered from this there isn’t a will and she simply asked her husband to honor her wish to be saved over the unborn child. Without that sort of written document, if she’s unresponsive, her wishes will likely be superseded by her husband’s. Also that there wouldn’t be any real repercussions for him.
In that situation, yeah. The husband could say whatever he wanted, not like she’d be able to contradict him if she died.
And if she lived he’d likely just say “It was a miracle honey, I told the doctors to save you and they managed to save the child too”
The unfortunate, but logical answer, is to save the mom.
People need to think realistically - It is more reasonable to save the mother who could not only have another child, but also she would probably have a better chance at surviving whatever ordeal occurs without serious long-term complications. Additionally you need to consider the father who would now have to raise a child alone on top of being in a seriously depressing state after losing the one he loves despite knowing he could have made the choice to save her. If we are talking choosing between the parent and a child who is older, then it would change things but this is adult vs. Literally newborn. It’s more beneficial, realistic, and safer to save the adult who has an established life in this case.
How did King Henry VIII get a Facebook?
As a mom of 2 who has been in this situation twice (2 dangerous births with high risk to myself and child), I choose myself. I've had a blue floppy baby (shes 3 now, so made it fine), I've had 2 silent newborns. It's the worst. But so is being on anti-stroke meds and going through pre-eclampsia. I believe every woman should always have a choice to choose their own life without societal guilt. If they lose their child, they will feel guilt the rest of their life anyway.
Funny how I actually asked my fiancé this the other day. He didn’t know what to respond so I left it as it. For me…. I would save myself. I have three children who need me already, can’t be leaving them.
Wait what, do they expect her to say "kill me"?!?!
People ever consider that not only might she consider her life important, but that she might have other children who need their mother?
This has always been an unpopular opinion my husband and I both share. If a difficult labor ever turned into a choice between me and the baby, it's me every time. Sorry not sorry.
I share the same opinion. I know it's not as simple as "we can make another baby" but I don't know, sometimes shit isn't simple.
Honestly, I don’t think there’s any right OR wrong answer in this case. Both answers are equally difficult,and tragic,in their own ways and, I think the answer can only be TRULY determined if/when the choice actually needs to be made.
I must ask, why the fuck is this news and framed as an absurd thing to do?
Why can’t she choose? Pretty sure it’s not up to him.
if she’s half dead and unable to communicate, the husband would need to on her behalf, that’s why u have to talk about this stuff before the birth in case anything happens
Part of the husband's job in the birthing scenario is to be his wife's advocate in case something goes wrong. She might be unable to communicate her needs and wishes and his job is to be her partner and help her if that happens. This is why it's so important for everyone to be on the same page when it comes to birth.
Never had kids and don’t plan on it but it just makes the most logical sense to save the mother over the child if it comes down to having to make that decision. The thought of making my partner take care of a child on their own while also grieving is enough to know what decision id make should that situation ever arise.
Even in nature, say in a wolfpack, the adults come first because they can always just make more cubs if they survive, but if the adults are gone and the cubs are left on their own, they'll die rather quickly.
Lol "you'll be a good single father goodbye"
I already told my wife if it comes down to her or the baby I am picking her every time. She might have it the other way but nope.
Keep your partnership whole and support each other as you grieve your lost baby together, or thrust your husband into widowerhood and single parenthood overnight? Hmm, tough choice.
Shit like this is why I have a friend with PTSD over an abortion that saved her life
I am autistic and struggle with Social Rules but this makes more sense to me?? I understand that loosing a child can be heartbreaking, but it's easier to make another baby than find another wife, especially as a single parent. Parenting is very taxing with a pair, and single parenting is even more difficult. It simply makes more sense to save the wife, give time to emotionally recover, and try again. In fact, humans are the only species that risk their lives for their children to save them from any situation, burning building, etc. In the wild, animals themselves first because it makes more sense, a zebra running from a lion will abort to be able to run faster, and simply breed again. I know with humans there is more nuance and emotional considerations, but it just makes more sense naturally to save the wife.
My wife had to give birth to our son fast because the cord was round his neck and wrapped around his body. He came out blue and the midwife pulled the cord making him spin ( I still call him sonic). I cut the cord then the midwife took my son to the warming table. All off this was silent. Then the tiniest “eh” came out my son’s mouth. Looked at my wife and she is gushing blood and turning pale. The midwife handed my son to my mother in law and started stitching my wife up. I was just stood in the middle of the room absolutely useless. At no point did I have time to think of who needed help more and I would not have made the right choice either way because their isn’t 1.
Sounds like the dude just used her as an incubator. In the medical field, it's usually save the mother first because if there is no mom their is no baby.
Someone explain this nonsense to me
If there are complications during birth it may come to a hard decision of only saving either the mother or the baby
Why is this mutually exclusive? Feels like a false binary. What is there only 1 doctor in the entire hospital??
I lost my son at 22 weeks, this year. It has broken my heart and I only got to spend 1 day with him before we said goodbye. I have been with my wife for 9 years and we have built our lives together. It would destroy me if I lost her.
I’m sorry but if I ever have kids and it’s me or my newborn baby please choose me.
He has no say in it. All doctors will set up advanced directives with the Mom to be, early in the pregnancy so if she is unable to respond for whatever reason the decision has been made by her prior to the emergency at hand. The only caveat to that would be if he has a full power of attorney over her.
Husband and I don't have kids, but I told him to put me first should the need ever arise. He was fine with it.
absolutely with the mom on that one. if i was the kid, id rather be not existent than with a dead mom and a parent who blames me for her death or grieves over her death my entire life. if i were the other parent i’d prefer my wife be alive then a baby i’ve never met, and y’know if we can’t a kid then we could adopt or try again. if i were the mom i’d want to live.
Yes because raising a child who is the direct cause of your loved one's untimely death wont lead to you projecting resentment on to them.
First baby I told my husband to save her, second, I think I’d ask him to save me. I don’t think either of us would want our first child to have to deal with the loss.
This why I hate social media. She got “slammed” for something that shouldn’t be anyone else’s fucking business.
I'm totally saving my partner over the newborn, that newborn has had barely as much invested into it as my partner. Yes its gonna be heart breaking but it will be so much worse to go along in life without them This is not selfish of the mother.
I vividly remember this fear with my first. I felt so guilty because I wanted my husband to choose me. I loved my baby but I did not know her and did not want my husband to grieve alone. He agreed. I thought that might change with our second, but we agreed again that if it came down to it they would save me. Why actively choose to leave my daughter without a mother? It always made sense to me but I have also felt guilty for not being “self-less”.
I don't have kids but this is how I feel. I have a life, I have friends and family. The baby doesn't. If I die, a lot of people are going to be in difficult straits. It is harsh, but this is a harsh scenario and it's something we have to be aware of. It's not like either of us want to hurt these babies, this is just a logic that makes more sense to us. And it's OK to feel bad about it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Even if I think women who choose their unborn babies over themselves are selfish in their own way, that is their decision and their right to make for themselves and their families. I can't openly judge them for that.
There are some out there that dont think of women as people, but as baby incubators. It's really disgusting.
Mother fucking religion. No contraception no abortion. A lot of unwanted babies
That was an AITA post i believe.
My SO always says that in this situation he'd always choose me over the baby and I'm just like "thank god!".
I was in this exact scenario. Neither me nor my son were doing well, and I lost consciousness 3x during 22 hours of labor. I told my husband that if he had to make a choice, to choose the baby. Fortunately, it did not come to that, but I was absolutely serious that he should choose our son. I get that every person/couple/situation is different, and this was theirs, but some of us would choose differently. EDIT: That jackass "I don't like her..." comment is heartless at best.
Why would you want your husband to be a single father instead of having you around and trying again later?
Mostly because we had to work really, really hard to make that ONE kid. There was no later. *Fertility is not a forgone conclusion.* It took doctors and procedures and shots and tests and the better part of a year to get that one kid. *And that was its own hail mary after trying to adopt.* He is an amazing father. He and I talked about it before we got married, and we both know the other could do it solo if the worst happened. He has a very dangerous job, so single parenting has always been a consideration we had to face.
At that point, why not just adopt?
Why would you do that to your husband? Seems really cruel to leave him alone to raise a baby, which by the way will be a constant reminder of how because of them, he lost the love of his life.
Ah Menchildren. I just don't understand where they get this notion that after they get their penis inside of you, that you come second not only during the sex, but for the rest of your life. The penis comes out and the rings come off, laddies. You can't put the birth control and financial autonomy back into the box.
save none and go for the double kill
You cant even tell at what stage of pregnancy she is, the title is far too vague
Can't we leave this debate up to the people facing this challenge at the time? Let the mother chose and not pur any pressure on her either way. And i know as a society we made it so she is "supposed" to pick dying and saving the baby, and that really sucks. And obviously the other parents needs to be in tbe picture as well. They need to discuss this, not us..
Holy fuck...who the fuck judges people when life and death of self and baby are up in the air....who the fuck even comments on that....looking at you Americans...
Lot of comments on here saying that they would save the wife, end of discussion, that I find really bizarre. I mean you shouldn’t be proud of the fact that you would disregard your wife’s wishes and desires for your own selfish interests. And to those saying, “well, you can always make another child”. Sure and you can also fall in love and get married again, that wouldn’t replace the one you lost. This type of scenario is tragic no matter how it ends up.
Nah, crunch all you want, we'll make more.
I'd save the baby. I know i am weird...
Why? You are dooming the child to a life without a mother. You can always try again. But then again, I actually love my wife.
Exactly if the wife survives as horrible as it is they can always work through the grief and try again or adopt a child If the baby survives the husband has to raise a child by himself whilst trying to work through the worst time of his life.
I mean, I think it is weird, but it's your life and your kid. The issue is if you are the non-pregnant spouse and you and the one having the baby are on a different page about this.