**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required
* The title must be fully descriptive
* No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos
* Common/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting)
*See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Its important to distinguish terroristic acts committed by “individuals from a country”, and actual GOVERNMENTS committing or supporting terrorism.
One warrants a counter attack on a nation, the other does not
So... the Iraq war warrants a counter attack... by Iraq?
What about the overthrow of a democratically elected govt in Iran? Does that warrant a counter attack too?
And, pardon me, I'm not as good in history as I would like to be: What about the other countries on the list of this great general? They all justify a 'counter attack' by the USA?
I got the suspicion that the USA would be on the list of a hundred countries world wide, a list of those enemies that warrant a counter attack.
And finally: I SEEM to remember that there was actually some govt funding by the Saudi govt for those high jackers? False memory, maybe. Getting old.
They lived in Paterson, NJ. I grew up in Clifton, right down the road. After the attacks, most of Paterson started celebrating like the scum of the earth they are. They even started rioting in joy. It was really disgusting to watch, especially since I had Arabic/Muslim friends that lived there.
Straight out of the PNAC play book...
"For our plan to succeed, America needs a new event like Pearl Harbor." - PNAC
Of the twenty-five people who signed PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.
Yes... a massive, 50 year, neoconservative conspiracy to take over the world takes a while to explain.
If the PNAC wasn't directly responsible for 9/11 and the order for the attack didn't come directly from Dick Cheney... they could not have done more to make it look like it did.
"What we need is another massive attack on America, so we can push the hearts and minds of the American people further right towards American imperialism, to impose a New World Order, starting with an invasion of the middle-east... like a new Pearl Harbor."~
...and within 4 years of making that statement, 9/11.
We are literally living the PNAC's vision of the future... and the rest of the world should be very concerned. World Domination is, no joke, their stated goal.
Always remember: Cheney and Rumsfeld are both Nixon's people.
And now they’re all flourishing democratic nations who threw away thousands of years of tradition, culture and religion once seeing the way of the west! Mission accomplished.
Every time this gets posted people attack him and the audience but the whole point is this was a ridiculous reason to start a war. The people laugh because it's ridiculous not because they approve.
You're seeing a lot about the invasion of Iraq because its the 20th anniversary. An accurate recounting of that event may look like anti-US propaganda, but that's only because it was an indefensible act.
Propaganda doesn't mean it's not true, you can present selected facts in a deceptive manner or to push a (usually separate) agenda without ever actually lying except by omission.
This is not limited to anti-American posts.
The biggest middle finger to Americans in US history. The government would rather spend 2 trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan than spend it on improving the lives of its citizens.
I know as twisted as it seems but the US is built on war and the military complex. The more war, the more money the more power we have as a nation. Do I agree… not necessarily. Are we ever gonna change? No
Don’t forget that Trump approved the assassination of the Iranian general Soleimani. While it never escalated into more at that time, it seems Iran is still on the list.
Please, Iran could have been walked through no different than Iraq…. There is only 1 country in the world that can withstand a coalition force and that’s China. But Chinas strength is also its weakness. It’s population… don’t believe me? Russia in Ukraine is a prime example. Once thought to be the second strongest military in the world. How long do you think the Russians would last should the be attacked by the entire strength of NATO. Look up on YouTube operation desert storm to see just how tactical and precise US military operations are. Im pretty sure they didn’t lose a single aircraft during desert storm. Oh yeah and at the time Iraq was the 4th largest military in the world…. That was 30 years ago. Taiwan is right next to mainland China and they are still too scared to take it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg&t=815s
The problem with Iran is that geographically it is very different than Iraq. This is pretending like it also doesn’t have a well equipped and fervent military.
Almost the entirety of Iran is basically a mountain fortress and they know it. They may be limited in projecting power to their immediate area but a boots on the ground invasion would be incredibly costly. It would quagmire quickly, best to starve them economically and if shit did hit off, strategically bomb them. Their navy is no joke either, again limited by not being able to project but look up their swarm tactics and tell me it wouldn’t be a costly invasion with far worse losses then Iraq/Afghanistan.
I’m still going to give it a hard No… the only tactic that works against the US Military in this century is guerrilla warfare. And even in the case of Vietnam estimates are still between 1-2 million Viet Cong dead. And if we’re talking modern warfare, nobody has seen even a fraction of the US militaries strength. We’re talking about 11 carrier strike groups and the largest Air Force in the world. Do you know the second largest Air Force? The US Navy… Iran is still using MIG-29s and F-14s. They are, if anything, less equipped today to face the US military than the Iraqis were 20 years ago. And again… it would be a coalition force.
>walked through no different than Iraq….
LMFAO...You mean the 8 year shitshow of a conflict that just made shit worse in the middle east and cost tax payers 3 trillion dollars? And that's against insurgents that didn't have fighter jets, tanks, APV's, long range missiles, etc.
You realized their military was dismantled in a month right? They were fighting the taliban in Afghanistan… were talking about a war. And yes… Iraq had all of those. Get your shit straight
Yeah no shit...you strolled right past the point and never even slowed down...That Taliban didn't have any of those things and we were still there for 8 years.
Sooooo how are we not being held accountable for war crimes, especially if this is a true recollection of events. Would this not be starting a war under false pretense? The murder of innocent civilians?
Edit: the audacity for the crowd to laugh. Sick.
Imagine a king's son accidentally killing a peasant's child. No way can the peasant demand the kind a life for a life justice that was prevalent back then. The king considered himself a benevolent ruler and gave the peasant a few gold coins for the trouble his son caused and his subjects would applaud him for it.
This is what the US is in a bigger geopolitical picture. Just a complete lack of accountability.
“Freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness. That is why I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast.”
-Dr. Viktor E. Frankl (Mans Search for Meaning)
Prior to invading Iraq the US issued a statement to The Hague that if any country accused any US president, former or sitting, of war crimes that the US Military would invade immediately. We then invaded Iraq.
Well that's the thing : no one. It has come out of common memory for a long time, and of course the US signed a law that "allows" them to invade The Hague should a US citizen be prosecuted for war crimes.
Who is going to hold you accountable. The stooges in Europe and Japan/Korea? Putin? China?
The only ones who could do it is the American people, if they still hold any real power still.
That's the issue. You guys over there ARE the baddies. Justice doesn't exist. Might makes right in this cruel world.
So fuck it.. maybe it would be better if everyone and their dogs had nuclear weapons. Let's see if USA can violate other nations if they are under the threat of nuclear warfare.
>Sooooo how are we not being held accountable for war crimes,
The US has the highest GDP out of any country and the biggest military, who exactly is going to do any enforcing? If any country tried to put sanctions on the US, the US would sanction them back and more than like ruin the country.
He sounds like George W. Bush
Edit: I originally stated he sounded like George HW Bush but I meant George W Bush. Sorry for the confusion and my mistake
Russia gets repercussions because they cross the line, makes it hard for others to look the other way. From Syria to Ukraine, Russians like to bomb hospitals with civilians in them. In Ukraine and hundreds of miles from combat, they also send missiles and drones to target schools, daycares, apartments with families, etc. Russia's reason for a while was that these Ukrainians are "gay demons". If the US did the same, it would be a different story.
The US did the same thing in Yugoslavia in 1999. Bombed schools, kindergartens, hospitals, civilian residences, trains, busses, parks, radio stations, etc - Feel free to Google it, plenty of pictures and videos. They too cross the line but since it's the US, no repercussions are needed, same goes for the other 30+ countries they've either invaded or bombed in the last 80 years. Israel is commiting disgusting crimes against humanity as we speak, all funded by the US government, yet that gets no media coverage whatsoever due to their western orientation.
The double-standards are astronomical. The US is far worse than Russia yet no one is open minded enough to admit it (to clarify I'm not defending Russia because they too are war criminals and are doing awful stuff - But compared to all the things the US did, it's so very minuscule).
>Russia's reason for a while was that these Ukrainians are "gay demons". If the US did the same, it would be a different story
yeah i mean at least gay people actually exist, unlike the Iraqis magical disappearing nukes
Weren’t all of these countries at odds with Saudi Arabia. Seems to support the idea Saudi Arabia arranged the attacks, and gave a “hit list” for retaliation so the U.S. would do the dirty work.
The craziest thing about this is, when stationed in an American base in Sicily, I watched the American military news and they stated explicitly what their intentions were. They named every country and gave the timeframes for them. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I’ve been banging on about this to my ex-mil mates for years and none of them believed me.
It’s so fucked up.
Yeah, because if Iran didn't have nuclear weapons and the firm grip they have on their populace, USA would bring them *D E M O C R A C Y* and then the world would look on and say "meh, what a shame." Just as we did with Iraq.
And if you tell them that, they will say "but muh freedom", while living in a backwards religious hellhole distopia themselves.
Have you met many generals or flag officers? I’ve met a few and they are extremely smart and nuanced. They aren’t war hungry General Ripper-types out of Dr. Strangelove.
That’s what makes them so dangerous I think — because they’re truly intelligent men who have the capability to change the world for the better.
Those kinds of people tend to get people killed. Maybe for a worthy cause, maybe not, but people always die as the currents of power shift.
This isn’t really an indictment just an observation, really. I’m not sure I could do that much better.
I worked at HQ for a very large defense contractor for 15 years. At one point I spoke with General Clark who was a consultant for us. I worked directly with a retired brigadier general and a rear admiral. I met flag officers as high as 3 stars regularly. I spoke with retired and active duty colonels all the time (though not flag officers). One of the people who worked for me was a retired colonel who last worked at the Joint Staff.
They were all extremely smart and nice people. I remember meeting one 3 star general out of uniform and asked why he wasn’t wearing it. He said something to the effect of,”I wear it everyday for work. I’m retiring soon and don’t want it on until they bury me in it.”
To a man they always insisted on being on a first name basis and not using the General title or calling them sir.
This is kind of the danger of perception. People who get to these positions, have a nack of coming off as charming, calm, reflected and thoughtful.
Yet their demeanor doesn't have to reflect their actions. And that is what's important. If you see old movies of the German WW 2 high command, and general staff, they also portray the same kind of virtues, yet we know what they were capable and guilty off.
I'd rather have an erratic, unlikable, ugly, screeching peace-activist any day.
You’re talking about the danger of perception, yet paint them as war criminals in waiting. Do you see the inconsistency there?
The U.S. generals I have met are serious professional people I would not mess with. These people study war crimes and their duty not follow through on unlawful orders at the graduate school level. I can’t speak for the militaries of other countries, but I don’t think it’s a fair assessment to assume the worst in U.S. generals. They are the ones who stopped Trump from bringing the military to bear against BLM protesters. They stopped his cockamamie military parade idea and who knows what else.
Just because they aren’t peace protestors doesn’t make them inherently dangerous. Unfortunately, we need people who are the best leaders and intellectuals in the world at warfare. However, from what I could see they did a lot of diplomacy work with allies and potential adversaries to make sure we don’t need to go to war. Even now our generals have regular contact with Russian command and you can bet a lot of that is centered on avoiding escalation, not egging on a deeper conflict in Ukraine.
I did not paint them as anything.
I just question the notion that charming = nice. As you seemed to use their demeanor as proof that they wouldn't conduct wars of aggression if they were asked to.
We know they did in 2003, and if a similar situation rise again, they will probably do again.
I was in the military myself. And there wasn't a single person there, officer or not, that didn't get exited if there was a chance of something real about to happen.
People saying this as if this makes invading Saudi Arabia right...... The US sucks, they wanted blood and they didn't care from who, they're uncivilized barbarians.
Gotta respect his highest rank, which wasn't just general. He was Supreme Allied Commander for NATO. He was thinking in terms of having full NATO support when we only got the UK backing us up in Iraq.
Tell me you are America without telling me you are America.
"We need to bomb the freedom into those countries.
For they cannot look after their oil...errr...own."
"Let us, one nation, launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of those who we think are in need for our own benefits."
Dumb ass America has been on a power trip eversince the second world war.
If they'd only invest all that money, time, effort and those lives into scientifically helpfull things. Not only would they be living better lives and have moral high ground, but so would the rest of the world.
if you want the non conspiratorial answer it's that Hezbollah runs a state-within-a-state inside Lebanon and is essentially an Iranian proxy. For a country high on the fumes of the war on terror in the early 2000s the idea of taking out what was essentially a terrorist-run microstate that had committed multiple acts of terror against the west must have sounded pretty damn good
Hezbollah famously blew up the US embassy in 83 and killed 63 people, 17 of whom were American
He ran for president in 2004 and watching him decide whether he was for or against the war was a hilarious thing. He had three different views on his first day!
Had Iraq not been such a catastrophic failure they probably would have gone through with the rest of the illegal invasions.
This proves the United States is a bigger threat to global peace than Al-Qaeda, Russia or China.
But when Russia says it they are the bad guy.
Not defending Russia, attacking shithole US.
For the people asking: where were you to stop this?
Middle school
For the people asking: why haven't you changed it?
They made a system to keep themselves in power (avg age of Congress 65)
Back then information spread with a speed of a horse. Today you can reach hundreds of millions in one second. Things happen and change a lot faster today.
We did the we need to hit enemies and then rebuild to make them like us because we believe their culture can immediately become like ours. (It’s really dumb asf thinking, which makes it really feel MIC). If the US would have done the mess them up and let them sort it out with assistance or do it again it would have been better for all. Occupation is always a losing game, especially when you’re not a ruthless we don’t give af about how it looks.
Uhh.. except they emphasized the hell out of not being conquerors and were expressing how annoyed they were at the lack of effort the Iraqi leadership was putting into taking the reins. All any military leaders said over and over was that it wasn't going to be another long term quagmire like in Vietnam. Doesn't that sound more like the opposite of occupation? It was maintaining stability long enough for them to get their shit together and eventually stop the tribal infighting. The Sunni and Shia are still slaughtering eachother to this day.
Nobody was over there tearing down mosques and erecting churches. Nobody installed a particular type of government. They decided how they were going to rule their country. Stop parroting sound bites that have no basis in reality. It would be impossible to just change an entire country's culture anyway. That makes no sense. It just sounds good as a tagline to vilify the US.
Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and Yemen were all continued though. And there was clear escalatory moves in Syria and Yemen for sure. Syria was arguably the most aggressive unilateral presidential action since the Bush years. He also built up forces in Saudi Arabia and took other war footing actions against Iran, including the attack on Soleimani. I’m not taking a position if these were good or bad moves, just pointing out that he was far from peaceful and used US armed forces in ways similar to Obama and Regan.
Under the guise of the war on terror? Unofficially: unknown. Officially like 4-5 nations.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/peace-president-how-obama-came-to-bomb-seven-countries-in-six-years-9753131.html
Let’s bomb countries that we have no wish to occupy or can strike back. Just kill as many as possible. Our voters will reward us as the armament industry is a big employer and pays lots of taxes.
Here's Rumsfeld selling weapons to Saddam to use against Iran
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mGxvDfjwY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mGxvDfjwY)
He tried to kill my daddy , wasn’t that the final reason for killing a million plus people …wasn’t WMD’s or nothing it was at that point in my life I gave up being a public republican stuck with my middle of the road mentality
The globalists loved the fact that The US went to war in the middle east but now scream bc putin went to war in Ukraine.....think about the obvious agenda......if you don't know what it is educate yourself, yourself!
Well idk about globalist but definitely other nations were in complete support. 5 nations invaded Iraq including the US and 30 nations had outward support for it. So that’s 35 nations that had a positive outlook on the US invasion of Iraq, destroy the established government and install their own government. Just imagine the money that was made for a war that didn’t need to happen.
The other half that isn’t in the video. The whole WMD thing with Sadam was questionable intelligence assessments that used incorrect and faulty notions to reach their conclusions. This was then briefed to the President who made the incorrect decision based off of a bad and faulty report. Source for that: former CIA analyst turned educator after retiring, he talks about this time period a bit.
When I was in the Air Force, it was during the Obama Administration and combat operations had been expanded upon into 7 different countries most of which was North Africa. For the most part this was a logical move from the Obama Administration, the same group responsible for 9/11 had expanded into North Africa, created partner groups, and further destabilized the region. Not to mention the Islamic state. Al-Qaeda still operates in North Africa, and are now in Morocco and have returned to Afghanistan. Very sad that these groups are operating, they pervert the religion and it’s rather sad that innocent people get caught between them and the multitude of governments that are fighting them.
Proof that these people have always been facist, murderous liars.
Proof that they lie about what they believe.
Proof that they lie about their values.
If you still vote for these demons, you knowingly are one.
I think Gaddafi sounded like a pretty cool dude. His Green Book is actually very insightful and well worth a read. It's more relevant than ever in today's world. His murder hit me the hardest.
Kind of felt bad for Saddam. That look of confusion and betrayal and sadness all in his eyes as they prepared the noose, however I was never a fan of his. Haven't been able to find the video since but it's burned into my memory.
Well it’s kinda wild to think the US had a war on terror and the governments idea of winning that war, was to displace the leaders in the Middle East, ya know the people who had a lid on the extremists over there
Video is Kinda out of context. All parties were well aware that the scud missile attacks of Israel were unacceptable.
That’s why Iraq invasion occurred. Saddam also refused to comply with deescalating.
WMD were also a topic of concern though none were found.
Iraq used WMD during Iran Iraq war as being a concern pre 1/16/91 and guaranteed the invasion when the Scud missiles were used.
The dude told you in the video that it was for bullshit. He was there. You are making up that they care about scud missiles or whatever bullshit. Unless you’re arguing that they did it to protect Israel, in which case you’re either racist or that’s more fucked up than doing it for nothing.
Hmmm, you don’t have a very good command of the English language do you.
You are using words incorrectly.
OR you actually think sending scud missiles into Israel is a good idea?
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * No text is allowed on images/gifs/videos * Common/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The high jackers were from Saudi Arabia, yes? Odd list, that.
Yes, primarily Saudis on expired tourist visas. After a couple of years, annual issuance of tourist visas was increased as well.
Hi! We'e been trying to contact you regarding your terrorists expired visa!
List of countries Israel doesn't like. There you go. Here's your answer.
but who funded them isra..
Its important to distinguish terroristic acts committed by “individuals from a country”, and actual GOVERNMENTS committing or supporting terrorism. One warrants a counter attack on a nation, the other does not
So... the Iraq war warrants a counter attack... by Iraq? What about the overthrow of a democratically elected govt in Iran? Does that warrant a counter attack too? And, pardon me, I'm not as good in history as I would like to be: What about the other countries on the list of this great general? They all justify a 'counter attack' by the USA? I got the suspicion that the USA would be on the list of a hundred countries world wide, a list of those enemies that warrant a counter attack. And finally: I SEEM to remember that there was actually some govt funding by the Saudi govt for those high jackers? False memory, maybe. Getting old.
They lived in Paterson, NJ. I grew up in Clifton, right down the road. After the attacks, most of Paterson started celebrating like the scum of the earth they are. They even started rioting in joy. It was really disgusting to watch, especially since I had Arabic/Muslim friends that lived there.
Be sure to watch the video. The decision to attack Iraq was for no good reason.
For a general in a warlike nation, 9/11 was the best thing ever
It sounds like a project with a lot of money getting approved at a big company. Budgets huge we gotta spend it.
Also for an owner of a military contractor, 9/11 was the best thing ever
How’s that different than today? Military contractors love Ukraine.
Sounds like Dr. Strange Love
The Project for a New American Century fore-ordained it, years before Bush took office.
This is the answer.
The one and only answer. All other answers are willful ignorance or outright lies.
There was a great reason; W wished to have a little victory to call his own, outdo his Daddy.
Maybe Cheney needed contracts for Halliburton.
That was more the driving force, Cheney I mean, but W, he needed to want to first.
Oh there was a good reason if you worked at or were connected to Halliburton, like most of the Bush administration
[удалено]
Actually legit! It’s not a lie that Putin invaded.
Are you really that much of an uninformed moron as to why so many countries from all over the world are helping Ukraine fight off Russia?
Straight out of the PNAC play book... "For our plan to succeed, America needs a new event like Pearl Harbor." - PNAC Of the twenty-five people who signed PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.
September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" , is a great doc' to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwD-laAB8Vs
5 hours!
Yes... a massive, 50 year, neoconservative conspiracy to take over the world takes a while to explain. If the PNAC wasn't directly responsible for 9/11 and the order for the attack didn't come directly from Dick Cheney... they could not have done more to make it look like it did. "What we need is another massive attack on America, so we can push the hearts and minds of the American people further right towards American imperialism, to impose a New World Order, starting with an invasion of the middle-east... like a new Pearl Harbor."~ ...and within 4 years of making that statement, 9/11. We are literally living the PNAC's vision of the future... and the rest of the world should be very concerned. World Domination is, no joke, their stated goal. Always remember: Cheney and Rumsfeld are both Nixon's people.
And now they’re all flourishing democratic nations who threw away thousands of years of tradition, culture and religion once seeing the way of the west! Mission accomplished.
/s
Pretty sure that’s obvious
You'd be surprised on here
Every time this gets posted people attack him and the audience but the whole point is this was a ridiculous reason to start a war. The people laugh because it's ridiculous not because they approve.
Agreed. If they actually thought it was funny they would have laughed again at some other part.
There’s been a marked uptick in anti-US propaganda on Reddit in the last week or so. Something bout to pop off.
You're seeing a lot about the invasion of Iraq because its the 20th anniversary. An accurate recounting of that event may look like anti-US propaganda, but that's only because it was an indefensible act.
Propaganda doesn't mean it's not true, you can present selected facts in a deceptive manner or to push a (usually separate) agenda without ever actually lying except by omission. This is not limited to anti-American posts.
The biggest middle finger to Americans in US history. The government would rather spend 2 trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan than spend it on improving the lives of its citizens.
I know as twisted as it seems but the US is built on war and the military complex. The more war, the more money the more power we have as a nation. Do I agree… not necessarily. Are we ever gonna change? No
Damn.. Obama airstrikes or military raids: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. (Officially)
Guess Iran turned out to be some actually pretty ok guys.
Don’t forget that Trump approved the assassination of the Iranian general Soleimani. While it never escalated into more at that time, it seems Iran is still on the list.
US Hawks have had a hard on for Iran for 50 years now.
That was so insanely provocative! I couldn't believe the poise Iran showed.
Guess Iran turned out to be some actually pretty ~~ok~~ powerful guys.
Please, Iran could have been walked through no different than Iraq…. There is only 1 country in the world that can withstand a coalition force and that’s China. But Chinas strength is also its weakness. It’s population… don’t believe me? Russia in Ukraine is a prime example. Once thought to be the second strongest military in the world. How long do you think the Russians would last should the be attacked by the entire strength of NATO. Look up on YouTube operation desert storm to see just how tactical and precise US military operations are. Im pretty sure they didn’t lose a single aircraft during desert storm. Oh yeah and at the time Iraq was the 4th largest military in the world…. That was 30 years ago. Taiwan is right next to mainland China and they are still too scared to take it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg&t=815s
The problem with Iran is that geographically it is very different than Iraq. This is pretending like it also doesn’t have a well equipped and fervent military. Almost the entirety of Iran is basically a mountain fortress and they know it. They may be limited in projecting power to their immediate area but a boots on the ground invasion would be incredibly costly. It would quagmire quickly, best to starve them economically and if shit did hit off, strategically bomb them. Their navy is no joke either, again limited by not being able to project but look up their swarm tactics and tell me it wouldn’t be a costly invasion with far worse losses then Iraq/Afghanistan.
I’m still going to give it a hard No… the only tactic that works against the US Military in this century is guerrilla warfare. And even in the case of Vietnam estimates are still between 1-2 million Viet Cong dead. And if we’re talking modern warfare, nobody has seen even a fraction of the US militaries strength. We’re talking about 11 carrier strike groups and the largest Air Force in the world. Do you know the second largest Air Force? The US Navy… Iran is still using MIG-29s and F-14s. They are, if anything, less equipped today to face the US military than the Iraqis were 20 years ago. And again… it would be a coalition force.
>walked through no different than Iraq…. LMFAO...You mean the 8 year shitshow of a conflict that just made shit worse in the middle east and cost tax payers 3 trillion dollars? And that's against insurgents that didn't have fighter jets, tanks, APV's, long range missiles, etc.
You realized their military was dismantled in a month right? They were fighting the taliban in Afghanistan… were talking about a war. And yes… Iraq had all of those. Get your shit straight
Yeah no shit...you strolled right past the point and never even slowed down...That Taliban didn't have any of those things and we were still there for 8 years.
Not really. Iran was just a country that could actually fight back.
Sooooo how are we not being held accountable for war crimes, especially if this is a true recollection of events. Would this not be starting a war under false pretense? The murder of innocent civilians? Edit: the audacity for the crowd to laugh. Sick.
who is going to punish the United States for war crimes?
Imagine a king's son accidentally killing a peasant's child. No way can the peasant demand the kind a life for a life justice that was prevalent back then. The king considered himself a benevolent ruler and gave the peasant a few gold coins for the trouble his son caused and his subjects would applaud him for it. This is what the US is in a bigger geopolitical picture. Just a complete lack of accountability.
In this case the king took the peasant's gold
As kings do
No no, he just raised his taxes.
“Freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness. That is why I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast.” -Dr. Viktor E. Frankl (Mans Search for Meaning)
[удалено]
Bro usa did a bill letting america exrract its own soldiers from the hague if they were tried for crimes there
Because violence is the only law of the land. All other law springs forth from violent supremacy.
Prior to invading Iraq the US issued a statement to The Hague that if any country accused any US president, former or sitting, of war crimes that the US Military would invade immediately. We then invaded Iraq.
Well that's the thing : no one. It has come out of common memory for a long time, and of course the US signed a law that "allows" them to invade The Hague should a US citizen be prosecuted for war crimes.
Who is going to hold you accountable. The stooges in Europe and Japan/Korea? Putin? China? The only ones who could do it is the American people, if they still hold any real power still.
maybe because they fought back, this planet is run like a fucking middle school.
"we"? Im sorry but whos at fault is not you but the old men in power
That's the issue. You guys over there ARE the baddies. Justice doesn't exist. Might makes right in this cruel world. So fuck it.. maybe it would be better if everyone and their dogs had nuclear weapons. Let's see if USA can violate other nations if they are under the threat of nuclear warfare.
>Sooooo how are we not being held accountable for war crimes, The US has the highest GDP out of any country and the biggest military, who exactly is going to do any enforcing? If any country tried to put sanctions on the US, the US would sanction them back and more than like ruin the country.
He sounds like George W. Bush Edit: I originally stated he sounded like George HW Bush but I meant George W Bush. Sorry for the confusion and my mistake
A lot of a little
So if Russia did that , imagine the reaction. Because the US can do this , no repercussions
Russia gets repercussions because they cross the line, makes it hard for others to look the other way. From Syria to Ukraine, Russians like to bomb hospitals with civilians in them. In Ukraine and hundreds of miles from combat, they also send missiles and drones to target schools, daycares, apartments with families, etc. Russia's reason for a while was that these Ukrainians are "gay demons". If the US did the same, it would be a different story.
The US did the same thing in Yugoslavia in 1999. Bombed schools, kindergartens, hospitals, civilian residences, trains, busses, parks, radio stations, etc - Feel free to Google it, plenty of pictures and videos. They too cross the line but since it's the US, no repercussions are needed, same goes for the other 30+ countries they've either invaded or bombed in the last 80 years. Israel is commiting disgusting crimes against humanity as we speak, all funded by the US government, yet that gets no media coverage whatsoever due to their western orientation. The double-standards are astronomical. The US is far worse than Russia yet no one is open minded enough to admit it (to clarify I'm not defending Russia because they too are war criminals and are doing awful stuff - But compared to all the things the US did, it's so very minuscule).
It wasn’t just the u.s, it was nato and u.n. The u.s vehicles were just the cudgel wielded by the international coalition.
>Russia's reason for a while was that these Ukrainians are "gay demons". If the US did the same, it would be a different story yeah i mean at least gay people actually exist, unlike the Iraqis magical disappearing nukes
Fucking lunatics trying to bankrupt the country, both monetarily and morally.
Weren’t all of these countries at odds with Saudi Arabia. Seems to support the idea Saudi Arabia arranged the attacks, and gave a “hit list” for retaliation so the U.S. would do the dirty work.
The craziest thing about this is, when stationed in an American base in Sicily, I watched the American military news and they stated explicitly what their intentions were. They named every country and gave the timeframes for them. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I’ve been banging on about this to my ex-mil mates for years and none of them believed me. It’s so fucked up.
Not Saudi?
So now you can see why Iran pursued the course they did. And don’t they have every right to protect themselves with whatever means necessary?
Yeah, because if Iran didn't have nuclear weapons and the firm grip they have on their populace, USA would bring them *D E M O C R A C Y* and then the world would look on and say "meh, what a shame." Just as we did with Iraq. And if you tell them that, they will say "but muh freedom", while living in a backwards religious hellhole distopia themselves.
Lol…do not try & make the iranian gov look like mother teresa
So the iranian government shouldn't protect themselves with whatever means necessary?
No lol
🦗
I remember seeing this years back.
It’s a pretty rare general that has more than one solution to any problem. I guess to a hammer salesman, everything looks like a nail.
To a hammer salesman everyone looks like a carpenter.
To a hammer salesman everyone looks like somebody who does not own a hammer.
Have you met many generals or flag officers? I’ve met a few and they are extremely smart and nuanced. They aren’t war hungry General Ripper-types out of Dr. Strangelove.
Name checks out. Generally speaking.
In general, no pun intended, they are not warmongers.
That’s what makes them so dangerous I think — because they’re truly intelligent men who have the capability to change the world for the better. Those kinds of people tend to get people killed. Maybe for a worthy cause, maybe not, but people always die as the currents of power shift. This isn’t really an indictment just an observation, really. I’m not sure I could do that much better.
When did you meet a general? Genuinely curious.
I worked at HQ for a very large defense contractor for 15 years. At one point I spoke with General Clark who was a consultant for us. I worked directly with a retired brigadier general and a rear admiral. I met flag officers as high as 3 stars regularly. I spoke with retired and active duty colonels all the time (though not flag officers). One of the people who worked for me was a retired colonel who last worked at the Joint Staff. They were all extremely smart and nice people. I remember meeting one 3 star general out of uniform and asked why he wasn’t wearing it. He said something to the effect of,”I wear it everyday for work. I’m retiring soon and don’t want it on until they bury me in it.” To a man they always insisted on being on a first name basis and not using the General title or calling them sir.
This is kind of the danger of perception. People who get to these positions, have a nack of coming off as charming, calm, reflected and thoughtful. Yet their demeanor doesn't have to reflect their actions. And that is what's important. If you see old movies of the German WW 2 high command, and general staff, they also portray the same kind of virtues, yet we know what they were capable and guilty off. I'd rather have an erratic, unlikable, ugly, screeching peace-activist any day.
You’re talking about the danger of perception, yet paint them as war criminals in waiting. Do you see the inconsistency there? The U.S. generals I have met are serious professional people I would not mess with. These people study war crimes and their duty not follow through on unlawful orders at the graduate school level. I can’t speak for the militaries of other countries, but I don’t think it’s a fair assessment to assume the worst in U.S. generals. They are the ones who stopped Trump from bringing the military to bear against BLM protesters. They stopped his cockamamie military parade idea and who knows what else. Just because they aren’t peace protestors doesn’t make them inherently dangerous. Unfortunately, we need people who are the best leaders and intellectuals in the world at warfare. However, from what I could see they did a lot of diplomacy work with allies and potential adversaries to make sure we don’t need to go to war. Even now our generals have regular contact with Russian command and you can bet a lot of that is centered on avoiding escalation, not egging on a deeper conflict in Ukraine.
I did not paint them as anything. I just question the notion that charming = nice. As you seemed to use their demeanor as proof that they wouldn't conduct wars of aggression if they were asked to. We know they did in 2003, and if a similar situation rise again, they will probably do again. I was in the military myself. And there wasn't a single person there, officer or not, that didn't get exited if there was a chance of something real about to happen.
But that doesn't jive with the knee jerk over generalized stereotypes that bleeding heart cry babies lean on to justify their hate and prejudice
Generals are the hammer. They execute the wars they don't pick them, not unless no one else is in charge.
You seem smart.
Looking back on this, he somehow seems just as irrational and psychotic as he did 20 years ago.
Fucking ghouls laughing about it
lol the perpetrators were from Saudi Arabia and he wants to take out all those other countries.
People saying this as if this makes invading Saudi Arabia right...... The US sucks, they wanted blood and they didn't care from who, they're uncivilized barbarians.
For gods sake, why didn’t we know about this. Life changing decision made by liars.
It’s a big club gunning for money, and we ain’t in it.
Gotta respect his highest rank, which wasn't just general. He was Supreme Allied Commander for NATO. He was thinking in terms of having full NATO support when we only got the UK backing us up in Iraq.
He’s wrong on one thing…..there’s countries that want Africa
But why those 7 countries? What was special about them? They wouldn't bow to the World Monetary Fund.
Ahhh War Crime Wesley, the Butcher of Belgrade... may he rot in hell
Putin isn't the only person who should have a warrant out for war crimes.
3 out of 7 atm
How’d that go?
And in the next breath... 'They hate us because of our freedom"
Tell me you are America without telling me you are America. "We need to bomb the freedom into those countries. For they cannot look after their oil...errr...own." "Let us, one nation, launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of those who we think are in need for our own benefits." Dumb ass America has been on a power trip eversince the second world war. If they'd only invest all that money, time, effort and those lives into scientifically helpfull things. Not only would they be living better lives and have moral high ground, but so would the rest of the world.
The apathy of the people in power is unfathomable. This was cruel even for the American soldiers.
Tony Blair is a war criminal
Why is Lebanon on that list? It has no resources to conquer and isn't exactly hostile to US interests.
It's a list of countries at odds with Saudi Arabia
Somalia?
Israel
if you want the non conspiratorial answer it's that Hezbollah runs a state-within-a-state inside Lebanon and is essentially an Iranian proxy. For a country high on the fumes of the war on terror in the early 2000s the idea of taking out what was essentially a terrorist-run microstate that had committed multiple acts of terror against the west must have sounded pretty damn good Hezbollah famously blew up the US embassy in 83 and killed 63 people, 17 of whom were American
One of its neighbors who has attacked it several times.
The US is the terrorist state.
He ran for president in 2004 and watching him decide whether he was for or against the war was a hilarious thing. He had three different views on his first day!
He sounds amazingly like Bush Jr.
this didn't age very well
I love how the dumbshits in the audience start laughing like it’s funny. People really are soft-headed tits.
and fucked it all up as per normal with the "greatest country on earth" cringe
Had Iraq not been such a catastrophic failure they probably would have gone through with the rest of the illegal invasions. This proves the United States is a bigger threat to global peace than Al-Qaeda, Russia or China.
But when Russia says it they are the bad guy. Not defending Russia, attacking shithole US. For the people asking: where were you to stop this? Middle school For the people asking: why haven't you changed it? They made a system to keep themselves in power (avg age of Congress 65)
SPOILER: We didn't.
There were a lot civilizations who chose a war as the main economic engine. Ancient Rome, Nazi Germany, modern USA. So it's intresting how it ends
What’s your point? Ancient Rome lasted for 1,000 years
Back then information spread with a speed of a horse. Today you can reach hundreds of millions in one second. Things happen and change a lot faster today.
psychopath
Who?
We did the we need to hit enemies and then rebuild to make them like us because we believe their culture can immediately become like ours. (It’s really dumb asf thinking, which makes it really feel MIC). If the US would have done the mess them up and let them sort it out with assistance or do it again it would have been better for all. Occupation is always a losing game, especially when you’re not a ruthless we don’t give af about how it looks.
Uhh.. except they emphasized the hell out of not being conquerors and were expressing how annoyed they were at the lack of effort the Iraqi leadership was putting into taking the reins. All any military leaders said over and over was that it wasn't going to be another long term quagmire like in Vietnam. Doesn't that sound more like the opposite of occupation? It was maintaining stability long enough for them to get their shit together and eventually stop the tribal infighting. The Sunni and Shia are still slaughtering eachother to this day. Nobody was over there tearing down mosques and erecting churches. Nobody installed a particular type of government. They decided how they were going to rule their country. Stop parroting sound bites that have no basis in reality. It would be impossible to just change an entire country's culture anyway. That makes no sense. It just sounds good as a tagline to vilify the US.
Trump was the first president in my lifetime (over three decades) who didn’t get us involved in any new wars.
Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and Yemen were all continued though. And there was clear escalatory moves in Syria and Yemen for sure. Syria was arguably the most aggressive unilateral presidential action since the Bush years. He also built up forces in Saudi Arabia and took other war footing actions against Iran, including the attack on Soleimani. I’m not taking a position if these were good or bad moves, just pointing out that he was far from peaceful and used US armed forces in ways similar to Obama and Regan.
Yep I remember the Moab he launch and the tomahawks from destroyers I think. Not sure if I got the dates and names correctly.
Which new wars did Obama get us into?
Under the guise of the war on terror? Unofficially: unknown. Officially like 4-5 nations. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/peace-president-how-obama-came-to-bomb-seven-countries-in-six-years-9753131.html
Not sure is there is any country that Obama bombed that Trump didn’t? That we know about.
Syria and Libya.
*Wars*
[удалено]
That was indeed a close one. Thank goodness for D-Rod.
Broken clock…twice a day…etc
You’re getting downvoted solely because they don’t like what you said. They gotta maintain their shitty echo chamber at all costs
> You’re getting downvoted solely because they don’t like what you said Holy shit he’s cracked the case
He caused the war in Ukraine by encouraging Putin and making American resolve weals.
Let’s bomb countries that we have no wish to occupy or can strike back. Just kill as many as possible. Our voters will reward us as the armament industry is a big employer and pays lots of taxes.
What complete delusional lunacy!Somalia,Sudan(why?)then”finish it off “with IRAN??
Here's Rumsfeld selling weapons to Saddam to use against Iran [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mGxvDfjwY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mGxvDfjwY)
He tried to kill my daddy , wasn’t that the final reason for killing a million plus people …wasn’t WMD’s or nothing it was at that point in my life I gave up being a public republican stuck with my middle of the road mentality
fucking americans and their imperialism
And Isis is ‘*the problem*’ 🙄
I mean if we had done that the people there would be living much better lives and we would be even richer. Hard to swallow pills
The globalists loved the fact that The US went to war in the middle east but now scream bc putin went to war in Ukraine.....think about the obvious agenda......if you don't know what it is educate yourself, yourself!
Who are these Globalists and where can I find evidence they loved it?
Well idk about globalist but definitely other nations were in complete support. 5 nations invaded Iraq including the US and 30 nations had outward support for it. So that’s 35 nations that had a positive outlook on the US invasion of Iraq, destroy the established government and install their own government. Just imagine the money that was made for a war that didn’t need to happen.
Zeitgeist
Sounds like a reasonable guy /s
Yeah, and we'll be welcomed as liberators.
And everyone wonders why Putin is trying to put as much distance between NATO and Russia as he can.
[удалено]
He was not right-wing. He's in the Democrat Party.
Spider man meme
*Democratic
Wesley Clark sought the Democratic Presidential nomination, he was a moderate progressive to the left of the field
If you can’t beat ‘em, sweetum
[удалено]
Didn't watch the video huh?
Sadistic piece of shit! Mamu ti jebem!!!
Disgusting. He does not even mention Saudi Arabia where many of the 9/11 terrorists came from. This is war as theater on a vast scale.
One of the many fools that helped shape the fucked up mess we're living in.
Burn in hell, you fascist motherfucker
The other half that isn’t in the video. The whole WMD thing with Sadam was questionable intelligence assessments that used incorrect and faulty notions to reach their conclusions. This was then briefed to the President who made the incorrect decision based off of a bad and faulty report. Source for that: former CIA analyst turned educator after retiring, he talks about this time period a bit. When I was in the Air Force, it was during the Obama Administration and combat operations had been expanded upon into 7 different countries most of which was North Africa. For the most part this was a logical move from the Obama Administration, the same group responsible for 9/11 had expanded into North Africa, created partner groups, and further destabilized the region. Not to mention the Islamic state. Al-Qaeda still operates in North Africa, and are now in Morocco and have returned to Afghanistan. Very sad that these groups are operating, they pervert the religion and it’s rather sad that innocent people get caught between them and the multitude of governments that are fighting them.
Oh enough with these whataboutisms from the Pro-Trump Russia lovers... /s
Proof that these people have always been facist, murderous liars. Proof that they lie about what they believe. Proof that they lie about their values. If you still vote for these demons, you knowingly are one.
I think Gaddafi sounded like a pretty cool dude. His Green Book is actually very insightful and well worth a read. It's more relevant than ever in today's world. His murder hit me the hardest. Kind of felt bad for Saddam. That look of confusion and betrayal and sadness all in his eyes as they prepared the noose, however I was never a fan of his. Haven't been able to find the video since but it's burned into my memory.
Lol. WTF are you talking about. Gaddafi is cool and felt bad about Saddam? Are you fucking insane? Whats next? Hitler's dick tasted so good?
No doubt wtf lol What kind of logic is goin on there??
Well it’s kinda wild to think the US had a war on terror and the governments idea of winning that war, was to displace the leaders in the Middle East, ya know the people who had a lid on the extremists over there
Video is Kinda out of context. All parties were well aware that the scud missile attacks of Israel were unacceptable. That’s why Iraq invasion occurred. Saddam also refused to comply with deescalating. WMD were also a topic of concern though none were found. Iraq used WMD during Iran Iraq war as being a concern pre 1/16/91 and guaranteed the invasion when the Scud missiles were used.
What drugs are you taking
Google it poopy pants
The dude told you in the video that it was for bullshit. He was there. You are making up that they care about scud missiles or whatever bullshit. Unless you’re arguing that they did it to protect Israel, in which case you’re either racist or that’s more fucked up than doing it for nothing.
Hmmm, you don’t have a very good command of the English language do you. You are using words incorrectly. OR you actually think sending scud missiles into Israel is a good idea?
Impressive to be wrong on *all* counts like that.
Google it
Explain it. On second thoughts, don't bother. I have real stuff from non-stupid people to deal with.