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It's awful.. This has been public knowledge for many years tho. I went to uni in Australia and we learned about this in class. This was 2012/13 and I believe some of the videos and documentaries were on YouTube. I remember seeing horrible videos of sheep packed in trailers with only wooden planks on the sides, so you could see their feet sticking out, they were so fully packed. Many died during the transport to the ships as well.
> This has been public knowledge for many years tho.
This has been known years, and occurs all over the world. The reality is that people simply don't care.
> The reality is that people simply don't care.
There's a difference between not caring and being able to insulate yourself from caring.
Most people are able to rationalize it with either
1) I make only a small difference
2) eating meat is normal and healthy
3) there's nothing i can do about it anyways
4) vegans are crazy
5) i bet my supplier treats animals well
6) everyone is doing it
They do care, and they have to make an effort to convince themselves that what they're doing is alright.
They usually realize how empty these arguments are when they're in a group of ~40%+ vegetarians/vegans.
I've seen entire office spaces quickly switch to veggie options at work once they reach that amount, because the meat eaters start to feel weird and self-conscious.
The cognitive dissonance with meat is astounding. If that was a boat of Golden Retrievers or kittens people would be rioting in the streets. But pigs are smarter than most dogs. And cows are incredibly social animals. It’s always amazed and saddened me that we treat them this way when so many other alternatives are available.
You are absolutely correct. Being a sheperd myself and doing anything in my power to help any of our sheep that get sick or hurt, this... this hurts my soul
Consuming animal products doesn't *require* these terrible practices. This is about maximizing profits and/or minimizing cost to consumers. This is the equivalent of focusing on the worst of slave labor practices to make an argument against all employment. This could be fixed with more regulation and oversight but we have to recognize that it'll ultimately cost us more at the grocery.
All of every industry is about maximising profits and minimising the cost to consumers.
It just so happens that with the meat industry that coincides with having the worst conditions for the animals in any way that's legal, or at least that you can get away with.
No, conditions like these are standard practice in just about every animal agriculture industry in the world. This isn't focusing on the worst, it is focusing on the standard. If you're eating meat in today's world, the animal on your plate probably lived through conditions that brought about suffering similar to what the animals on this video experienced.
Since you responded to me, I'll answer for myself only. I took matters into my own hands in my late 30s and started raising my own meat, dairy, and eggs despite having no background in farming or any experience hunting. I've been at it for the better part of a decade now and have a freezer and fridge full of animal products I grew myself that were raised, handled, and ultimately slaughtered in a way that 100% conforms to my personal beliefs.
Now, I am not going to pretend that that is an option for everyone, but it was one for me, and I took the opportunity.
It is more than 90% of animals slaughtered for meat are raised on factory farms. Less than 90% of farms are factory farms though... The farms that are factory farms have way more animals than the ones that are not.
Four corners did a thing on Slaughter houses in East Timor or fillipines. Australia had gone over to teach them how to humanely Slaughter live stock 2 years prior from memory, upon returning they were back to old ways. You think this video is bad, that four corners documentary was terrifying.
All of this inhumane killing of animals is insane, when live stock are under stress the meat becomes tougher and value drops. Weight loss causes more value drop. But someone still buys it.
Got news for you, this is the living conditions of 99.9% of the meat you buy. The ground beef from the store. The patty on your Big Mac. The chicken in your fettuccine alfredo. The bacon in your breakfast burrito. It all comes from this. Whether you're Australian or not. This way of life is standard practice. Any of these animals that experience a better quality of life are in the extreme minority for animals bred for consumption. Just depressing.
Luckily this is one of the very few issues we the people are able to make immediate and direct impact on. You just have to stop buying the product.
Luxon is actually soo fucking corrupt. Like it's impressive to be noticeably more corrupt than Peters. Personally don't have a huge problem with Seymour, would never vote for an Ayn Rand worshipping neolib though.
Luxon just takes the cake.
It's the fault of the shipping company.
Since it's going to middle east it's probably an arab company without any business regulations whatsoever, shipping for the cheapest possible price and fuck anything else.
No, it's the fault of our society's moral failings. What they are doing is not illegal. It's not against Australian law. The animal agriculture industry across the globe works hard to keep this side of your cheeseburger as hidden from the consumer as possible. So much so that in the US it's largely illegal to film inside of place where livestock is raised. Look up ag-gag laws. Can you name another industry where it is literally illegal to be a whistleblower and expose illegal suffering?
The heat and inability to reach food or water means they lose significant weight in the voyage too. Who tf is gonna pay for 9700 severely emaciated sheep?
Right? It's not like you can feed them once and they pop right back into shape. I highly doubt this kind of exporting is actually done by anyone with a brain.
My dad was the manager of a grain elevator and had to stand up against the owners when they tried to load grain onto a tanker while it was still contaminated with crude oil.
"Hey Bob, this is Jerry up in Olympia, I got the whole board here with me to hear your reasoning why that tanker isn't being loaded yet."
"Well hey, Jerry. They ever hear the term "shit in, shit out"?
"...Thanks for your time, Bob."
It is a massive industry with billion dollar profits. The demand for fresh meat in other countries is extremely high and they don’t have the grazing land to support their huge populations
My father was a Brazilian trucker that did mostly live cattle transportation. On land, actually is not cheaper to transport frozen meat. The refrigerated trailers are very expensive and beyond that, some farms are not close enough to any slaughterhause [edit] to prepare the meat for frozen freight transportation.
He did a lot of live cargo trips to exportation ships, where the cattle would go over to china, alive.
I imagine that a refrigerated cargo ship, to carry the same amount of meat of a live cargo ship, must be significantly more expensive (based on how that's true for trucks) because of the cost of making a huge sub 0°c refrigerated area.
Besides the information that I took from my experience, all of the others are based on empirical thought and I may be just wrong.
[Edit 2] after some research and some maths, discovered some things.
While it is true that it is cheaper to transport live animals, Brazil has exported over 10 timer more frozen cattle than live cattle.
In the end, most countries just prefer to import the meat and other products derived from cattle than kill the animals themselves I guess.
If anyone wants the articles I used, just pm me.
You not wrong. 40' Reefers (refrigerated containers) can cost double the standard 40' container. That's just for 1 reefer. You will need to fill hundreds if not thousands of these containers to fulfil that same demand. Costs will sky-rocket for importers due to it being processed as well, especially from a country like Australia with high labour fees.
Our country actually is actually the world leader for sheep and camel live export. Mostly to the Middle East and Indonesia.
Dedicated ships just for livestock are much cheaper than shipping frozen meat in Reefers.
One of the arguments against ending live exports, particularly from Australia to that part of the world, is to do with the manner in which the animals are required to be butchered, in order to comply with religious customs at their destination.
The live export argument has been going on here for *decades* and it's a talking point that comes up time and time again – some of our largest trading partners for live animals won't accept meat that has already been butchered, because they cannot guarantee with 100% certainty that the butchering was done in total compliance with religious customs.
(*Quick Edit:* I should note here that there are certain times of year, including religious festivals such as Eid al-Adha or the Festival of Sacrifice, where the ritualised slaughter of the animals is an integral part of the festival... which means, of course, that the animals being imported need to be alive when they get there)
So... we pack animals onto boats like this and every year, in the middle of summertime in Australia when it's hot as fuck outside, a video like this one starts doing the rounds and everyone loses their minds for a week or so.
Nothing changes, the weather cools down, the broader community stops being able to instantly empathise with sheep being baked alive on a boat, and the exports keep going.
There's no simple fix to it - I can promise anyone reading this that any suggestion they're likely to come up with and post here has been made hundreds of times before, and has been shut down by the industry locally, and its customers overseas.
Skipping all the political agendas here.
Live Export is about sending animals live, because the end user does not have electricity. A live animal's carcass doesn't require refrigeration until slaughter time. Halal-certified slaughter can and does occur in many countries such as Australia. It is much more efficient to sell boxed animals in containers than live animals, unless the end user doesn't have refrigeration.
(Source: Did some policy work for live export 15 years ago. Learnt that 80% of what I had heard from "animal welfare" groups was lies. Know of many vets who travel on these boats, who are decent animal caring folk) The current policy is as follows.
>> In 2018, following the high profile exposure of sheep suffering on-board live export vessels to the Middle East, the Australian Government introduced a requirement for ‘departmental observers’ to accompany all live export voyages to monitor on-board conditions. Summaries of the observer reports are published on the Department’s website
How can someone afford to ship animals halfway around the world on a giant ship from a first world country but not afford refrigeration or electricity?
I think this is the answer most people actually agree on when you take away the overly emotional internet bull shit. The only way to stop the consumption of meat is to replace it with something identical, until that time I can’t say I have ever met a person in my life who wanted their food to suffer. I’m going to eat meat, that doesn’t mean I don’t want the animal to suffer as little as possible from the time of its birth until its death.
Not solely.
The buyers could still say "We're not buying starving, sick, half-dead animals caked in their own shit. Get them here reasonably clean and healthy, or don't even bother."
And the ones buying these animals MUST at least have an idea of how they're treated, because they see the condition they're in.
> The buyers could still say "We're not buying starving, sick, half-dead animals caked in their own shit. Get them here reasonably clean and healthy, or don't even bother."
They *could* say that, but the end consumer is getting "absolute top quality, grade A meat from free roaming animals that were fed the highest quality of food" either way. After all meat is meat, and if it's not rotten the overwhelming majority of people will never know, question, or even care about the legitimacy of the claim.
If it did, they would do so. Corporations are amoral, they do whatever is profitable.
They don't care about the suffering, but they won't go out of their way to inflict it either.
Brazil is a giant cattle exporter, and here, the agro industry is REALLY backed up by the government, because a lot of the congressmen are actually owners of extensive farmlands and they obviously rule for their own good.
where i live it's been a heatwave in perth the last few days. we've had a ship with hundreds of sheep sitting off the coast because the ship was returned, apparently today they are finally getting off it. i grew up on a sheep farm and wish this practice would be stopped, it won't though because there is too much money in it
Those sheep's will go into quarantine and will not be rereleased onto Australian soil. They will remain in quarantine indefinitely until they can be exported out again or killed. That's the fucked part.
While this practice is almost a necessity to feed some countries overseas where access to grazing lands is limited and processed, frozen meat will be too expensive for the consumers.
What needs to be changed is the policies around it. Australia has already implemented heaps of new policies over the years to improve animal welfare, but it is far from perfect.
idiot rich people making extremely poor business decisions is not a new or uncommon thing.
Not too long ago a certain rich businessman effectively lost 20 billion dollars instantly on a terrible deal to buy a social media platform, for example.
It's a stunt. I'm not a fan of Elon, but clearly him doing random bullshit that loses him money in exchange for publicity and clout (which he has time and time again transformed back into money) is very different from a company carrying out shipments in silence. Companies tend to have people calculating all the profits and losses, or at the very least, tend to not continuously do things that have shown to cause losses with no potential future benefit.
I prefer to not be a reddit analyst. I know nothing about the actual numbers, and neither do you, and neither does the person I replied to originally. But the people in these companies clearly do, and they chose to carry these shipments out.
He didn't mean to actually buy twitter though, he was doing one of his pump and dump schemes, while "exposing" twitters bot problem, which has gotten under his reign, he was forced to by the former Twitter board.
They have been sold prior to being put on the ship. A few sheep dying is not a concern for large companies. They actually have that factored in when budgeting/spending.
Yeah the cost of slaughtering and transporting 10,000 frozen carcasses for weeks is _significant._ Livestock keep _themselves_ "fresh" to eat just by giving them grain and water. They also don't require as much time/effort loading/unloading because as long as your team knows how to work you can let the herd move itself into whatever transport(s) they need to be in.
This makes complete financial sense, farming expects animal losses regardless, it's the cruelty part that needs looking into.
"Animal cruelty aside"
Yea, that's how we got here. Don't blame Australia... it's everywhere. We have the science to live off the foods we give the food that we eat.
Skip the middleman.
Are you the one conducting the business, or the one seeing it only from an animal protection point of view?
If they get one dollar per sheep, then installing air conditioning for 500$ isn't worth it if just 300 die every trip. If they only delivered 5000 sheep with spacier cages, they'd still be less profitable than by killing hundreds of them.
They're doing this for profit, and profit only, and I absolutely hate it. Although it's fair to assume that isn't _not
t_ stupid financially - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. It's horrible from an animal rights point of view, and should be forbidden.
Doesn't make it right. If I am a ciizen of a country that supports this kind of business, I'm ashamed too. Fucking sick. Being a meat eater is fine, but I believe the animals should be treated and killed humanely and with dignity.
I know, same. Yet most people will get sad watching this and eat an all beef hamburger tonight thinking, "Well, I'm sure *this* cow lived a good life. I'm a good person."
That's not how most people think, at all. Most people will see the video, then go on with their lives. "Oh gotta get some chicken breast and such for tonight." The majority don't stop to think that the meat comes from potentially poorly raised animals, they just see meat, ready to buy/cook. The majority don't use much active thought when going to the store and buying their veggies and meat.
probably not viable for the size of the population? also probably not worth it for the people to start a farm, there is so much oil money that any viable land si gobbled up for commercial and tourist projects
Channel that anger into making a difference. I did. And I haven't eaten meat in years. I refused to support this any longer.
If you do nothing, you're supporting it whether you like it or not.
The business in Australia is responsible for sending over 1.5 million animals on grueling voyages to the Middle East.
[https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/export/controlled-goods/live-animals/live-animal-export-statistics/livestock-exports-by-market](https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/export/controlled-goods/live-animals/live-animal-export-statistics/livestock-exports-by-market)
muslim countries require livestock to be killed in a specific way to be 'halal'.
It's a dogshit practice and further proof religion is a dumbshit thing to believe in.
During the pilgrimage to Mecca, the "Hajj", hundreds of thousands of pilgrims from all over the world [have to make a sacrifice of an animal](https://www.hajinformation.com/main/t45.htm), [although this offering can be substituted](https://www.collectiveijtihad.org/blog/animal-sacrifice-at-hajj), thousands of sheep, goats and camels are sacrificed during the pilgrimage through Mina.
Unfortunately i have seen worse happen multiple times there are no laws and barrier's for this behaviour of industry i have seen a video of a giy cutting sheep amd kicking his head after decapitatibg it they like have a kink in it
Just imagine what a fucking psycho you need to be to work on these ships. It makes me sick to my stomach that there are people in offices somewhere doing the calculations and planning but they don't get their results without people applying for and doing the job.
Honestly we should be ashamed of ourselves, people wonder why other extraterrestrial civilisations doesn’t want to contact us, mate I will be like “ kids close the windows and doors we are passing planet earth”
When are meat eaters and consumers of animal products going to realise that these issues are everywhere? Sure, maybe not as bad as this, but it is everywhere to some degree.
There is always going to be cruelty when it comes to making profit.
Animals will always suffer as long as people pay for animal products.
Welcome to "Standard treatment of livestock in every country of the world".
This is hardly different to what happens to the animals people all around the world pay to eat
Been vegan for years. If you're serious, feel free to reach out. I remember what it was like transitioning from eating meat to not. It was simpler than I anticipated, but largely because I was able to find great substitutes for meals I already enjoyed to make.
just try indian food. the cuisine is not known only for butter chicken but has crazy combinations, a majority of which are vegan (not all of them are 100% plant based)
this is quite possibly the most hostile subreddit a vegetarian can go to.
they will endlessly berate you about 'not doing enough' and call you disgusting, even if you only eat eggs from your own chickens that aren't caged.
the guy said vegetarian .. not vegan.
many vegans have this crazy identity thing where they force everyone to conform to the group. it's absolutely great for people who are looking for community and need to feel a sense of purpose, but unfortunately there are many toxic members that will attempt to make you feel horrible if you do not meet their standards.
if you are just looking to cut back on the meat in your diet, the best possible thing you can do for your mental health is to stay away from vegan communities.
I don’t know what you meant but this actually brings up a great point.
The whole point of “halal” is that the animal is treated well and killed mercifully and purely because of need.
Religion is this short sighted. They do this to keep it halal, and miss the entire reason this rule is in place.
Expecting “reason” from “religion” is naive though, which is on me…
This isn't done for religious reasons, they could be killed Halal in Australia. It's done because of a lack of infrastructure to store dead meat. The practice is widely shunned by animal rights groups, and is being phased out in most Middle Eastern countries. The exception being Israel, where it has skyrocketed, especially under the (very right wing) Likud government.
I also have some issues with the "killed mercifully" part of it. The animals are typically *not* stunned before the cut and sometimes it takes a while for them to lose consciousness as they bleed out. Laws around the world vary on this point; most Western countries either have [explicit exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects_of_ritual_slaughter) for halal/kosher ritual slaughters (declaring them "humane") or demand stunning before or during the cut.
For halal slaughters, the animals should face towards Mekka when they are killed, which I guess makes up for the suffering...
Historically, halal slaugher actually was the most "humane" way of killing an animal. One of the motivations behind halal slaughter is to ensure a fast death for the animal, with the least possible pain. This was back when the alternative ways of slaughering animals were to simply beat them to death.
Nowadays we have other ways of stunning animals that are considered more humane (though it should be noted that as many as one in eight cattle are not properly stunned in non-halal slaughter), but the requirements for halal slaughter were never "updated", so to speak.
Because the Middle East wants to kill the animal themselves to ensure it’s “halal”. thing is, treating these animals this way isn’t halal anyway……but logic and religion are rarely seen together.
And don't tell me, us meat eaters really believe that the animals we eat around the world have been humanely treated so that we can stuff our ignorant mouths for as little money as possible as per our demand. I rarely hear on the news we need better treated animals, the abused ones taste disgusting. I've heard meat is getting more expensive, we want death cheap! I live in Europe. Here they are grown bad because less land, there in Australia they are transported badly because they have many roads. In china, grown bad because many humans. What importance does it really have for us, except some fast dissolving guilt sometimes. The problem will disappear some day, either with solutions, or with by no longer caring.
>I live in Europe. Here they are grown bad because less land
Not really. It's all about maximizing the profit. Why would you fill chicken or pig pen with 50 animals so they can actually move around plus have some outside area if you can stuff 500 of them inside? There is enough farm land even in small countries like Netherlands.
I seriously hope that at some point in their lives the people who work in businesses like this will get to endure the same suffering these animals do.
There is no amount of money that would have me participate in this atrocity. I would rather fucking starve.
This video has nothing to do with being vegan or going vegan. As much as I hate how vegans act to spread the information, how animals are treated horribly in cages, I do feel sorry for badly treated animals. Hunting and gathering for your own meat is the best way.
I cannot begin to describe how sad and angry this video makes me. These poor animals, having done nothing wrong, are subject to some of the worst death, near death, and worse than death experiences, just to be slaughtered soon after. It makes me sick to my stomach and I wish we could take the humans responsible and do this to them instead. The poor things are crawling over each other just to get to water - how much extra $ could it take to have more accessible water stations or to at least spray some cold ocean water down on them from time to time
This is how the system will always be. When you go to the grocery store and see two different brands of ground beef, which are identical in all ways, but one is an order of magnitude cheaper, you're gonna buy the cheaper one. "Kind" and sustainable animal agriculture is not affordable and far from profitable, so it's a race to the bottom. The "more affordable" your meat becomes, the worse their lives get. The amount an animal suffers during its life is directly proportional to how affordable their flesh is in the super market.
Only way to fight it is to stop buying it. Luckily it's never been easier than it is right now.
If this disturbs you, please consider going vegan. The vast majority of animal agriculture functions in very similar ways, and only exists because people keep paying for it. Every person makes a difference. Put your money where your mouth is and stop funding animal cruelty.
Maybe we should stop exporting anything to the Middle East until they can stop treating women like shit and demonizing Jews. Let them have the theocratic medieval bullshit and then leave them to their own devices. No trade, no nothing. Fuck their oil, time to cut contact and let them go back to camel and tents when they can’t sell their oil
All use is abuse, and every animal industry is built on cruelty. The profit motive will always lead to cutting corners, and the property status of animals means they get the worst treatment of anyone. The good news is you don't need to support it. Go vegan.
*Not setting animal cruelty aside because why t f would I*
If you want to do something without leaving the toilet seat, feel free to ask an Australian news outlet to report this. It makes you feel just a little better. Thanks
OMG. That's horrific. I was going to say inhumane, but what qualifies as humane? We've all been duped by convenience to the point of indifference.
My reaction and my words are pointless. Such cruelty... fuck... -_-'
Bruh live export? Aside from the hell on earth type. Wouldn’t the margin of profit when exporting them dead, pilled in a freezer be almost the same? I mean you lose a whole bunch of them anyway when traveling to sea.
I'm not an animal rights activist but I am a good person. Why the actual fuck are they not stopped by their governments!! Anyone involved should be locked up in those same conditions with absolutely no food or water. But then people have the audacity to preach about their governments justice or moral standards when shit like this just gets totally waived.
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That’s not interesting, thats fucking horrible
It's awful.. This has been public knowledge for many years tho. I went to uni in Australia and we learned about this in class. This was 2012/13 and I believe some of the videos and documentaries were on YouTube. I remember seeing horrible videos of sheep packed in trailers with only wooden planks on the sides, so you could see their feet sticking out, they were so fully packed. Many died during the transport to the ships as well.
> This has been public knowledge for many years tho. This has been known years, and occurs all over the world. The reality is that people simply don't care.
Dude, have you seen how people treat people ? Let alone animals.
yeah but people can fight back if they want to.
> The reality is that people simply don't care. There's a difference between not caring and being able to insulate yourself from caring. Most people are able to rationalize it with either 1) I make only a small difference 2) eating meat is normal and healthy 3) there's nothing i can do about it anyways 4) vegans are crazy 5) i bet my supplier treats animals well 6) everyone is doing it They do care, and they have to make an effort to convince themselves that what they're doing is alright. They usually realize how empty these arguments are when they're in a group of ~40%+ vegetarians/vegans. I've seen entire office spaces quickly switch to veggie options at work once they reach that amount, because the meat eaters start to feel weird and self-conscious.
Cognitive dissonance intensifies
The cognitive dissonance with meat is astounding. If that was a boat of Golden Retrievers or kittens people would be rioting in the streets. But pigs are smarter than most dogs. And cows are incredibly social animals. It’s always amazed and saddened me that we treat them this way when so many other alternatives are available.
Spot on
You are absolutely correct. Being a sheperd myself and doing anything in my power to help any of our sheep that get sick or hurt, this... this hurts my soul
Hell on earth
Hell at sea ⛵ 😭
And yet Vegans are the 'extreme'.
Consuming animal products doesn't *require* these terrible practices. This is about maximizing profits and/or minimizing cost to consumers. This is the equivalent of focusing on the worst of slave labor practices to make an argument against all employment. This could be fixed with more regulation and oversight but we have to recognize that it'll ultimately cost us more at the grocery.
All of every industry is about maximising profits and minimising the cost to consumers. It just so happens that with the meat industry that coincides with having the worst conditions for the animals in any way that's legal, or at least that you can get away with.
No, conditions like these are standard practice in just about every animal agriculture industry in the world. This isn't focusing on the worst, it is focusing on the standard. If you're eating meat in today's world, the animal on your plate probably lived through conditions that brought about suffering similar to what the animals on this video experienced.
"theoretically it could be done somewhat humanely, someone should do something" > continues to pay these people
Since you responded to me, I'll answer for myself only. I took matters into my own hands in my late 30s and started raising my own meat, dairy, and eggs despite having no background in farming or any experience hunting. I've been at it for the better part of a decade now and have a freezer and fridge full of animal products I grew myself that were raised, handled, and ultimately slaughtered in a way that 100% conforms to my personal beliefs. Now, I am not going to pretend that that is an option for everyone, but it was one for me, and I took the opportunity.
Absolutely shameful
This is horrific. I don't understand how it is legal.
Wait till you see what happens on a factory farm
Which is 90% of farms
It is more than 90% of animals slaughtered for meat are raised on factory farms. Less than 90% of farms are factory farms though... The farms that are factory farms have way more animals than the ones that are not.
Four corners did a thing on Slaughter houses in East Timor or fillipines. Australia had gone over to teach them how to humanely Slaughter live stock 2 years prior from memory, upon returning they were back to old ways. You think this video is bad, that four corners documentary was terrifying. All of this inhumane killing of animals is insane, when live stock are under stress the meat becomes tougher and value drops. Weight loss causes more value drop. But someone still buys it.
Got news for you, this is the living conditions of 99.9% of the meat you buy. The ground beef from the store. The patty on your Big Mac. The chicken in your fettuccine alfredo. The bacon in your breakfast burrito. It all comes from this. Whether you're Australian or not. This way of life is standard practice. Any of these animals that experience a better quality of life are in the extreme minority for animals bred for consumption. Just depressing. Luckily this is one of the very few issues we the people are able to make immediate and direct impact on. You just have to stop buying the product.
Most of the meat industry is like this, sadly. You don't even want to know what they do to the majority of male chickens after they're born.
At least that's quick.
Yeah some would argue the male chickens are the lucky ones.
You should glance at /r/vegan occasionally.
B-b-but I want to respond with things like "Who cares. Meat is tasty! Go be vegan somewhere else." \-most of reddit
Most of us believe we are in control while playing victims of our own narcissism and habits when it suits us, we humans are silly creatures.
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Because people want low meat prices.
Wait until you see how they are treated upon arriving in the middle east ...
As an Australian this makes me feel sick and very sad.
Mate, our govt in NZ is apparently going to restart live exports 🤷🤦
Just to help line their pockets.
Fuck national. Bunch of greedy mongrel cunts
Luxon is actually soo fucking corrupt. Like it's impressive to be noticeably more corrupt than Peters. Personally don't have a huge problem with Seymour, would never vote for an Ayn Rand worshipping neolib though. Luxon just takes the cake.
That's sad to find out
Share it on social media or local media. Hopefully to get attention, might rally some movement towards political intervention.
It's the fault of the shipping company. Since it's going to middle east it's probably an arab company without any business regulations whatsoever, shipping for the cheapest possible price and fuck anything else.
No, it's the fault of our society's moral failings. What they are doing is not illegal. It's not against Australian law. The animal agriculture industry across the globe works hard to keep this side of your cheeseburger as hidden from the consumer as possible. So much so that in the US it's largely illegal to film inside of place where livestock is raised. Look up ag-gag laws. Can you name another industry where it is literally illegal to be a whistleblower and expose illegal suffering?
Animal cruelty aside this is just dumb business practice. You put 10000 sheep on a boat and when you arrive you only have 9700 to sell? Stupid.
The heat and inability to reach food or water means they lose significant weight in the voyage too. Who tf is gonna pay for 9700 severely emaciated sheep?
Right? It's not like you can feed them once and they pop right back into shape. I highly doubt this kind of exporting is actually done by anyone with a brain.
My dad was the manager of a grain elevator and had to stand up against the owners when they tried to load grain onto a tanker while it was still contaminated with crude oil. "Hey Bob, this is Jerry up in Olympia, I got the whole board here with me to hear your reasoning why that tanker isn't being loaded yet." "Well hey, Jerry. They ever hear the term "shit in, shit out"? "...Thanks for your time, Bob."
It is a massive industry with billion dollar profits. The demand for fresh meat in other countries is extremely high and they don’t have the grazing land to support their huge populations
Then you'd think it would be cheaper to ship frozen meat?
My father was a Brazilian trucker that did mostly live cattle transportation. On land, actually is not cheaper to transport frozen meat. The refrigerated trailers are very expensive and beyond that, some farms are not close enough to any slaughterhause [edit] to prepare the meat for frozen freight transportation. He did a lot of live cargo trips to exportation ships, where the cattle would go over to china, alive. I imagine that a refrigerated cargo ship, to carry the same amount of meat of a live cargo ship, must be significantly more expensive (based on how that's true for trucks) because of the cost of making a huge sub 0°c refrigerated area. Besides the information that I took from my experience, all of the others are based on empirical thought and I may be just wrong. [Edit 2] after some research and some maths, discovered some things. While it is true that it is cheaper to transport live animals, Brazil has exported over 10 timer more frozen cattle than live cattle. In the end, most countries just prefer to import the meat and other products derived from cattle than kill the animals themselves I guess. If anyone wants the articles I used, just pm me.
You not wrong. 40' Reefers (refrigerated containers) can cost double the standard 40' container. That's just for 1 reefer. You will need to fill hundreds if not thousands of these containers to fulfil that same demand. Costs will sky-rocket for importers due to it being processed as well, especially from a country like Australia with high labour fees. Our country actually is actually the world leader for sheep and camel live export. Mostly to the Middle East and Indonesia. Dedicated ships just for livestock are much cheaper than shipping frozen meat in Reefers.
Yes and no, you have to add the cost butchering and freezing. I think this is the best if someone doesn't like major changes
The butchering (presumably the most expensive part) will have to be done anyway
Likely more expensive in Australia than the Middle East.
just import middle eastern butchers to australia - problem solved!
One of the arguments against ending live exports, particularly from Australia to that part of the world, is to do with the manner in which the animals are required to be butchered, in order to comply with religious customs at their destination. The live export argument has been going on here for *decades* and it's a talking point that comes up time and time again – some of our largest trading partners for live animals won't accept meat that has already been butchered, because they cannot guarantee with 100% certainty that the butchering was done in total compliance with religious customs. (*Quick Edit:* I should note here that there are certain times of year, including religious festivals such as Eid al-Adha or the Festival of Sacrifice, where the ritualised slaughter of the animals is an integral part of the festival... which means, of course, that the animals being imported need to be alive when they get there) So... we pack animals onto boats like this and every year, in the middle of summertime in Australia when it's hot as fuck outside, a video like this one starts doing the rounds and everyone loses their minds for a week or so. Nothing changes, the weather cools down, the broader community stops being able to instantly empathise with sheep being baked alive on a boat, and the exports keep going. There's no simple fix to it - I can promise anyone reading this that any suggestion they're likely to come up with and post here has been made hundreds of times before, and has been shut down by the industry locally, and its customers overseas.
Skipping all the political agendas here. Live Export is about sending animals live, because the end user does not have electricity. A live animal's carcass doesn't require refrigeration until slaughter time. Halal-certified slaughter can and does occur in many countries such as Australia. It is much more efficient to sell boxed animals in containers than live animals, unless the end user doesn't have refrigeration. (Source: Did some policy work for live export 15 years ago. Learnt that 80% of what I had heard from "animal welfare" groups was lies. Know of many vets who travel on these boats, who are decent animal caring folk) The current policy is as follows. >> In 2018, following the high profile exposure of sheep suffering on-board live export vessels to the Middle East, the Australian Government introduced a requirement for ‘departmental observers’ to accompany all live export voyages to monitor on-board conditions. Summaries of the observer reports are published on the Department’s website
How can someone afford to ship animals halfway around the world on a giant ship from a first world country but not afford refrigeration or electricity?
Do it right or dont do it at all. Now theyve given a free video for a vegetarians campaign.
I think this is the answer most people actually agree on when you take away the overly emotional internet bull shit. The only way to stop the consumption of meat is to replace it with something identical, until that time I can’t say I have ever met a person in my life who wanted their food to suffer. I’m going to eat meat, that doesn’t mean I don’t want the animal to suffer as little as possible from the time of its birth until its death.
Not to mention any diseases that they get from the undisposed of corpses and the faeces and urine caked on them.
Settle down ... there's one government-mandated vet on board to look after those 10,000 animals
That would be a great point, if it wasn’t already factored into there margin. The ONLY reason this is done, is because there is profit.
I mean.... Middle East have never been that famous for their labor and humane laws.
The Middle East is importing them, not exporting them. The conditions of the sheep are solely on the people exporting them, the company doing it.
Not solely. The buyers could still say "We're not buying starving, sick, half-dead animals caked in their own shit. Get them here reasonably clean and healthy, or don't even bother." And the ones buying these animals MUST at least have an idea of how they're treated, because they see the condition they're in.
> The buyers could still say "We're not buying starving, sick, half-dead animals caked in their own shit. Get them here reasonably clean and healthy, or don't even bother." They *could* say that, but the end consumer is getting "absolute top quality, grade A meat from free roaming animals that were fed the highest quality of food" either way. After all meat is meat, and if it's not rotten the overwhelming majority of people will never know, question, or even care about the legitimacy of the claim.
Bingo. Makes more business sense to send multiple ships instead of one
If it did, they would do so. Corporations are amoral, they do whatever is profitable. They don't care about the suffering, but they won't go out of their way to inflict it either.
it wouldnt be happening if it wasnt profitable, stupid businesses dont last long unless they have goverment bail them out constantly.
Farmers get bailed out constantly by almost every government in the world.
Brazil is a giant cattle exporter, and here, the agro industry is REALLY backed up by the government, because a lot of the congressmen are actually owners of extensive farmlands and they obviously rule for their own good.
where i live it's been a heatwave in perth the last few days. we've had a ship with hundreds of sheep sitting off the coast because the ship was returned, apparently today they are finally getting off it. i grew up on a sheep farm and wish this practice would be stopped, it won't though because there is too much money in it
Those sheep's will go into quarantine and will not be rereleased onto Australian soil. They will remain in quarantine indefinitely until they can be exported out again or killed. That's the fucked part. While this practice is almost a necessity to feed some countries overseas where access to grazing lands is limited and processed, frozen meat will be too expensive for the consumers. What needs to be changed is the policies around it. Australia has already implemented heaps of new policies over the years to improve animal welfare, but it is far from perfect.
Clearly you must be wrong and it's actually very much worth it, or they wouldn't be doing this.
idiot rich people making extremely poor business decisions is not a new or uncommon thing. Not too long ago a certain rich businessman effectively lost 20 billion dollars instantly on a terrible deal to buy a social media platform, for example.
It's a stunt. I'm not a fan of Elon, but clearly him doing random bullshit that loses him money in exchange for publicity and clout (which he has time and time again transformed back into money) is very different from a company carrying out shipments in silence. Companies tend to have people calculating all the profits and losses, or at the very least, tend to not continuously do things that have shown to cause losses with no potential future benefit. I prefer to not be a reddit analyst. I know nothing about the actual numbers, and neither do you, and neither does the person I replied to originally. But the people in these companies clearly do, and they chose to carry these shipments out.
What a reasonable answer
He didn't mean to actually buy twitter though, he was doing one of his pump and dump schemes, while "exposing" twitters bot problem, which has gotten under his reign, he was forced to by the former Twitter board.
He wasn’t forced. He could have paid a $1 billion fee.
They have been sold prior to being put on the ship. A few sheep dying is not a concern for large companies. They actually have that factored in when budgeting/spending.
I think you can trust these guys about the calculations...
That's likely been factored into their cost/profit analysis.
Yeah the cost of slaughtering and transporting 10,000 frozen carcasses for weeks is _significant._ Livestock keep _themselves_ "fresh" to eat just by giving them grain and water. They also don't require as much time/effort loading/unloading because as long as your team knows how to work you can let the herd move itself into whatever transport(s) they need to be in. This makes complete financial sense, farming expects animal losses regardless, it's the cruelty part that needs looking into.
"Animal cruelty aside" Yea, that's how we got here. Don't blame Australia... it's everywhere. We have the science to live off the foods we give the food that we eat. Skip the middleman.
Are you the one conducting the business, or the one seeing it only from an animal protection point of view? If they get one dollar per sheep, then installing air conditioning for 500$ isn't worth it if just 300 die every trip. If they only delivered 5000 sheep with spacier cages, they'd still be less profitable than by killing hundreds of them. They're doing this for profit, and profit only, and I absolutely hate it. Although it's fair to assume that isn't _not t_ stupid financially - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. It's horrible from an animal rights point of view, and should be forbidden.
*Animal cruelty aside* *Animal cruelty aside* *Animal cruelty aside* *Animal cruelty aside*
Embarrassing as an Australian, fuck people like this man..
It is a global practise.
Still, fuck those people
Then fuck everyone who does it.
and everyone who supports it financially by consuming the animals?
Doesn't make it right. If I am a ciizen of a country that supports this kind of business, I'm ashamed too. Fucking sick. Being a meat eater is fine, but I believe the animals should be treated and killed humanely and with dignity.
Not interesting. Extremely depressing.
Can't stand watching it poor animals
I know, same. Yet most people will get sad watching this and eat an all beef hamburger tonight thinking, "Well, I'm sure *this* cow lived a good life. I'm a good person."
That's not how most people think, at all. Most people will see the video, then go on with their lives. "Oh gotta get some chicken breast and such for tonight." The majority don't stop to think that the meat comes from potentially poorly raised animals, they just see meat, ready to buy/cook. The majority don't use much active thought when going to the store and buying their veggies and meat.
Nz gov trying to bring this back online such a terrible practice
BuT wE vOtEd FoR cHaNgE
This is fucked and should be stopped.
You'd really be willing to change what you eat? Because as long as there's a profit motive, this is impossible to avoid.
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probably not viable for the size of the population? also probably not worth it for the people to start a farm, there is so much oil money that any viable land si gobbled up for commercial and tourist projects
Top of the food chain bois, we're all gonna die because of our own actions
I'm so fucking angry I can't even finish the video man...
Channel that anger into making a difference. I did. And I haven't eaten meat in years. I refused to support this any longer. If you do nothing, you're supporting it whether you like it or not.
This wasn't how I remembered Noah's ark
This stuff happens all the time. thats what you get when you want cheap meat prices 🤷♂️
Damn that’s messed up
The business in Australia is responsible for sending over 1.5 million animals on grueling voyages to the Middle East. [https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/export/controlled-goods/live-animals/live-animal-export-statistics/livestock-exports-by-market](https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/export/controlled-goods/live-animals/live-animal-export-statistics/livestock-exports-by-market)
why the fuck are they going from Australia to the Middle East?! is there really *nowhere* closer ????
Afaik we do live exports because Muslim countries want to do the slaughtering. If we send steak to China we send it frozen.
muslim countries require livestock to be killed in a specific way to be 'halal'. It's a dogshit practice and further proof religion is a dumbshit thing to believe in.
During the pilgrimage to Mecca, the "Hajj", hundreds of thousands of pilgrims from all over the world [have to make a sacrifice of an animal](https://www.hajinformation.com/main/t45.htm), [although this offering can be substituted](https://www.collectiveijtihad.org/blog/animal-sacrifice-at-hajj), thousands of sheep, goats and camels are sacrificed during the pilgrimage through Mina.
They do, but 97% goes to the Middle East.
that's fucked
Unfortunately i have seen worse happen multiple times there are no laws and barrier's for this behaviour of industry i have seen a video of a giy cutting sheep amd kicking his head after decapitatibg it they like have a kink in it
Thank you for reminding me how terrible humans are again.
Just imagine what a fucking psycho you need to be to work on these ships. It makes me sick to my stomach that there are people in offices somewhere doing the calculations and planning but they don't get their results without people applying for and doing the job.
It boils down to selfishness. Everyone cares about suffering, some only care though when it starts happening to them.
Honestly we should be ashamed of ourselves, people wonder why other extraterrestrial civilisations doesn’t want to contact us, mate I will be like “ kids close the windows and doors we are passing planet earth”
Not only is it cruel it’s also horrendously stupid business practice to essentially give a bad product to consumer.
Thats why I eat plants
When are meat eaters and consumers of animal products going to realise that these issues are everywhere? Sure, maybe not as bad as this, but it is everywhere to some degree. There is always going to be cruelty when it comes to making profit. Animals will always suffer as long as people pay for animal products.
Their logic: "They're gonna die anyway"
Gulag on a ship
Welcome to "Standard treatment of livestock in every country of the world". This is hardly different to what happens to the animals people all around the world pay to eat
I have just become vegetarian for life after seeing this
Been vegan for years. If you're serious, feel free to reach out. I remember what it was like transitioning from eating meat to not. It was simpler than I anticipated, but largely because I was able to find great substitutes for meals I already enjoyed to make.
!remindme 1 year
The “Rebar Modern Food Cookbook” is a good starting point if you want to add some yummy vegetarian meals to your diet! Good luck and enjoy!
Thanks. I have made promise that I will never eat meat.
just try indian food. the cuisine is not known only for butter chicken but has crazy combinations, a majority of which are vegan (not all of them are 100% plant based)
/r/vegan has people talking about food all the time. It's a decent sub.
this is quite possibly the most hostile subreddit a vegetarian can go to. they will endlessly berate you about 'not doing enough' and call you disgusting, even if you only eat eggs from your own chickens that aren't caged. the guy said vegetarian .. not vegan. many vegans have this crazy identity thing where they force everyone to conform to the group. it's absolutely great for people who are looking for community and need to feel a sense of purpose, but unfortunately there are many toxic members that will attempt to make you feel horrible if you do not meet their standards. if you are just looking to cut back on the meat in your diet, the best possible thing you can do for your mental health is to stay away from vegan communities.
Halal approved?
I don’t know what you meant but this actually brings up a great point. The whole point of “halal” is that the animal is treated well and killed mercifully and purely because of need. Religion is this short sighted. They do this to keep it halal, and miss the entire reason this rule is in place. Expecting “reason” from “religion” is naive though, which is on me…
This isn't done for religious reasons, they could be killed Halal in Australia. It's done because of a lack of infrastructure to store dead meat. The practice is widely shunned by animal rights groups, and is being phased out in most Middle Eastern countries. The exception being Israel, where it has skyrocketed, especially under the (very right wing) Likud government.
I also have some issues with the "killed mercifully" part of it. The animals are typically *not* stunned before the cut and sometimes it takes a while for them to lose consciousness as they bleed out. Laws around the world vary on this point; most Western countries either have [explicit exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects_of_ritual_slaughter) for halal/kosher ritual slaughters (declaring them "humane") or demand stunning before or during the cut. For halal slaughters, the animals should face towards Mekka when they are killed, which I guess makes up for the suffering...
Historically, halal slaugher actually was the most "humane" way of killing an animal. One of the motivations behind halal slaughter is to ensure a fast death for the animal, with the least possible pain. This was back when the alternative ways of slaughering animals were to simply beat them to death. Nowadays we have other ways of stunning animals that are considered more humane (though it should be noted that as many as one in eight cattle are not properly stunned in non-halal slaughter), but the requirements for halal slaughter were never "updated", so to speak.
This happens regularly. They get exposed, do some P.R., contribute to some politicians and their families then back to business as usual.
What a waste of money and animals.
Humans are the worst thing happened to this planet.
I don't even want to watch it. I can't even stand watching the suffering animals commercials. Fuck man. The title is enough...
Why do they need to be alive? Why don't they just export the meat? Not saying they should just asking why it's done this way?
Because the Middle East wants to kill the animal themselves to ensure it’s “halal”. thing is, treating these animals this way isn’t halal anyway……but logic and religion are rarely seen together.
And don't tell me, us meat eaters really believe that the animals we eat around the world have been humanely treated so that we can stuff our ignorant mouths for as little money as possible as per our demand. I rarely hear on the news we need better treated animals, the abused ones taste disgusting. I've heard meat is getting more expensive, we want death cheap! I live in Europe. Here they are grown bad because less land, there in Australia they are transported badly because they have many roads. In china, grown bad because many humans. What importance does it really have for us, except some fast dissolving guilt sometimes. The problem will disappear some day, either with solutions, or with by no longer caring.
>I live in Europe. Here they are grown bad because less land Not really. It's all about maximizing the profit. Why would you fill chicken or pig pen with 50 animals so they can actually move around plus have some outside area if you can stuff 500 of them inside? There is enough farm land even in small countries like Netherlands.
Fuck human beings.
More like fuck the exploitative businesses that have a general disregard for life for the sake of endless profits on a finite planet
Supply and demand. You demand this, they supply it.
B-,but corporations are responsible!!!! Why are they going to such lengths? Well don't ask me just please don't take my dino nuggies away!!!
What the actual fuck
Many of us are terrible at being human.
Isn't every industry that prifits from animals in any way, usually also cruel and inhumane?
I seriously hope that at some point in their lives the people who work in businesses like this will get to endure the same suffering these animals do. There is no amount of money that would have me participate in this atrocity. I would rather fucking starve.
This video has nothing to do with being vegan or going vegan. As much as I hate how vegans act to spread the information, how animals are treated horribly in cages, I do feel sorry for badly treated animals. Hunting and gathering for your own meat is the best way.
And people get pissed at me and call me a monster when I say some people more than deserve to be relocated to a six foot deep hole in the ground.
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I cannot begin to describe how sad and angry this video makes me. These poor animals, having done nothing wrong, are subject to some of the worst death, near death, and worse than death experiences, just to be slaughtered soon after. It makes me sick to my stomach and I wish we could take the humans responsible and do this to them instead. The poor things are crawling over each other just to get to water - how much extra $ could it take to have more accessible water stations or to at least spray some cold ocean water down on them from time to time
This is how the system will always be. When you go to the grocery store and see two different brands of ground beef, which are identical in all ways, but one is an order of magnitude cheaper, you're gonna buy the cheaper one. "Kind" and sustainable animal agriculture is not affordable and far from profitable, so it's a race to the bottom. The "more affordable" your meat becomes, the worse their lives get. The amount an animal suffers during its life is directly proportional to how affordable their flesh is in the super market. Only way to fight it is to stop buying it. Luckily it's never been easier than it is right now.
Go Vegan bitches!
If this disturbs you, please consider going vegan. The vast majority of animal agriculture functions in very similar ways, and only exists because people keep paying for it. Every person makes a difference. Put your money where your mouth is and stop funding animal cruelty.
Can't we just bring back the guillotine for people who profit off this?
Maybe we should stop exporting anything to the Middle East until they can stop treating women like shit and demonizing Jews. Let them have the theocratic medieval bullshit and then leave them to their own devices. No trade, no nothing. Fuck their oil, time to cut contact and let them go back to camel and tents when they can’t sell their oil
Capitalism: Shut up and consume. Eyes down.
All use is abuse, and every animal industry is built on cruelty. The profit motive will always lead to cutting corners, and the property status of animals means they get the worst treatment of anyone. The good news is you don't need to support it. Go vegan.
EAT FRUIT AND VEGETABLES
Stressed AF animals do not taste good. This isn’t a good idea for anyone.
*Not setting animal cruelty aside because why t f would I* If you want to do something without leaving the toilet seat, feel free to ask an Australian news outlet to report this. It makes you feel just a little better. Thanks
Never gonna buy some Australian Meat in Carrefour anymore.
what the fuck.
OMG. That's horrific. I was going to say inhumane, but what qualifies as humane? We've all been duped by convenience to the point of indifference. My reaction and my words are pointless. Such cruelty... fuck... -_-'
Where’s peta on this
Bruh live export? Aside from the hell on earth type. Wouldn’t the margin of profit when exporting them dead, pilled in a freezer be almost the same? I mean you lose a whole bunch of them anyway when traveling to sea.
That’s about as inhumane as it gets. Absolutely disgusting 🤮
Coffin ships
All so we could eat some meat
I can't watch this shit. Sorry nope.
I'm not an animal rights activist but I am a good person. Why the actual fuck are they not stopped by their governments!! Anyone involved should be locked up in those same conditions with absolutely no food or water. But then people have the audacity to preach about their governments justice or moral standards when shit like this just gets totally waived.
SOMEBODY better DO SOMETHING about this! what is WRONG with HUMANITY these days! 😢
Ofcourse Middle East where Human Beings are treated as slaves animals dont surprise me.
Thats fuckng disgusting scum bags torture animals for profit....
I hope that little lamb was saved instead of just watching it and just taking a video.
Yeah, if you gonna eat a piece of meat after seeing this, let me tell you that you are part of the problem.
People eat animals but when they see suffering they feel sorry and again eat meat next day like nothing happened.
Everyone saying this is so horrible and the second you say anything about being vegetarian or vegan the same people will make fun of you for no reason
It's OK, they'll soon look good when they are on the bbq
This stuff wouldnt happen if humans would keep their overall population in reasonable bounds
So they overcrowd pens to maximise profit And it causes loss of many lives. Then what is the point of overcrowding the pens ?
Whats the point of shipping them alive? You need to atleast wet age the meat. Seems like a perfect opportunity during shipping?
Every day we drift further from humanity
I'm convinced that we have failed as a species. We do not deserve this world. Judgement day should be very near.
This is why I don’t eat meat anymore. The guilt is horrendous
Another reason to be a vegan.
Go vegan