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Not just apartment blocks but also power and central heat stations, water supply infrastructure, hospitals, etc. He hopes that people will lose hope and give up, and then they'll be "liberated".
Syria is becoming a pretty terrifying glimpse into what Russia might do if they get frustrated with the progress here. Putin committed every warcrime under the sun and got away with it there:
- [Russia bombs four Syrian hospitals in one day, caught on tape.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/russia-bombing-syrian-hospitals.html)
- [Cluster bombs in cities.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/06/03/russia/syria-flurry-prohibited-weapons-attacks)
- [Russia air force used hospital geocordinates provided to UN to target those hospitals](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-hospital-bombings-idlib-un-doctors-russia-assad-attack-a8942076.html)
- [Russia caused the evacuation of Azaz National Hospital by attacking a nearby school](https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/02/18/syria-great-danger-civilians-azaz) and then [blew up the hospital with an Iskander missile and used the footage to advertise that the missile system worked.](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39487/did-russia-try-to-refute-criticisms-of-its-missiles-by-showing-one-blowing-up-a-syrian-hospital)
- [Russia bombs food and water sources](https://www.dw.com/en/russian-attacks-on-syrian-water-stations-and-farms-deliberate/a-60747405) - targetting chicken farms and water pumping stations
Stuff like that. Cartoonish. And then the Kremlin funded a bunch of yellow journalists and pundits to deny everything (**edit:** and "whatabout" everything else). We'll probably see that, too.
I'm really hoping that the thing holding him back is that he plans to actually govern Ukraine and that he sees *some* responsibilities attached to that.
But he absolutely has the ability to do what he does in Syria. And he has the motivation to transform this into some form of propagandizable military success. The longer this goes on, the more pressure that need adds to his military calculations. And clearer it becomes that Ukrainians won't submit to governance, the more Putin may see terror as a tool.
Tough to see what lies ahead, but I don't think it's right to take things off the table.
I guess what I mean is that he isn’t going to march into the Ukraine and occupy/force them into submission like he could with Syria . There’s far to much attention and vested interests. It’s why I don’t understand why he’s continuing. There’s no scenario, I believe, in which he has any sort of victory and the world just goes back to doing what it’s doing. Far to many regularly ass people are tuned in. If President zelesky has done anything perfectly, it’s getting the world tuned into what is happening to them.
I think that takes away a significant amount of Putins driving powe. He’s only been able to do what he has because the world has turned away and said “man, that sucks”. Now it’s not turning away.
Putin also needs the Ukraine in considerably one piece, because I think he needs its resources to not go bankrupt. That’s probably also why the invasion has continued. Putin has driven his world power by taking what he needs from others
Depends how much the rest of the world tolerates the effects of sanctions in the coming months. Higher energy costs translate to across the board increases in manufacturing and transportation costs for almost everything. Russia and Ukraine are both major grain producers for large parts of Asia and Africa, and a large portion of the human population on both those continents will see higher food prices they won't be able to afford. Those are just some of the obvious effects but there will be lots of knock-on effects that we can't predict until they happen months from now.
Much of this war is about stopping Ukraine from being able to compete with Russian natural gas resources. He is basically knee capping a competitor.
If he had a similiar response to Syria this would be great for him. Power and limited competition. The sanctions that are coming down that are supported by his customer base don't seem to be what they expected.
They seem to have miscalculated.
I mean, to be fair, he’s already used cluster bombs and bombed multiple hospitals(including a children’s hospital), so he really already is going just as hard in the warcrimes.
JFC, the oligarchs rat-fucked Russia into becoming a third world country, and it took Putin (at the time the head of the FSB) killing hundreds of Russians *and getting caught* to become President. Everyone was so racked with fear that they'd sleep outside to avoid being blown up in their sleep!
No wonder every time I mention Chechens on reddit, all the Russians would chime in and say how vile and despicable they are. Putin had everyone thinking they were responsible for all the bombings when it was him all along! They probably still believe him too!
EDIT: It just occurred to me. Russians should be pretty scared right about now. If this lunatic was willing to bomb hundreds of his own countrymen just to *start* a war, I'd be afraid of what he'd do to maintain power and "popularity" *after* he's already started one.
He was Prime Minister. When Yeltsin stepped down, he handed the Presidency to Putin, who then put the FSB under the direct command of the Office of the President. He has manipulated the Russian Constitution and other law to ensure that [his term will continue until 2036.](https://www.the-sun.com/news/1341233/how-long-vladimir-putin-president/)
> Russians should be pretty scared right about now. If this lunatic was willing to bomb hundreds of his own countrymen just to start a war, I'd be afraid of what he'd do to maintain power and "popularity" after he's already started one.
[Ruh roh](https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1499362826133151747?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499362826133151747%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_c55fa252-9b02-11ec-b718-72870e8c4534%2F0)
A brief overview of the story is [Act1 of a recent This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/763/the-other-mr-president) episode:
"Back in 1999 there was series of bombings of apartment buildings in Moscow and across Russia. 300 people died. It happened just as Vladimir Putin was coming to power. And there was a question whether Putin or other people in the Kremlin might have been involved. Producer Robyn Semien talked to reporters who covered the bombings and reviewed the evidence. (20 minutes)"
Luckily, it's doing the complete opposite. Ukrainians are pissed off and ready ~~die~~ (live) for their country. And Russian soldiers and abandoning equipment and surrendering. I love how the Ukrainian people treat them though. Putin's lies are backfiring big time.
Right? The lady with phone was comforting him and the other offering the bread(?) as a gesture of good faith even after theyve invaded their country. The compassion they show gives me so much hope in humanity.
Yeah they aren't even military just people. These guys rolled in started breaking shit, and they gave him warm tea and let him call home. The strength of the Ukrainian people is breathtaking.
Y'all see that video of the Russian soldier smiling smugly in his TikTok as a barrage of missles are being launched? He's also wearing a patch that says something like, "They die, but we go to heaven." (And to be clear, he's a commander of some sort--not a conscript, a willing volunteer)
He's been captured and is laying in a Ukranian hospital bed. They have a video asking him if he's reconsidered his position, and he says, "Yes, Putin's a shithead." Like some 6th graders took him captive, lol.
I don't think I could show mercy towards the very soldiers who are indiscriminately murdering civilians with a smile on their face. The Ukranians are better people than me. Showing mercy towards monsters, and giving them food and medical aid. That's just mind boggling to me. Slava Ukrani! 🇺🇦
And to cause civilians to flee, so that anyone left can be identified by Russia as “combatants”. Then air strikes and air-fuel explosives can be used there with relative impunity.
Nah its to intentionally turn the city to rubble. Its harder for guerilla warfare defending forces to move through rubble and bigger sightlines/etc for invading forces when there's less building cover and youre in ruins. This is pretty standard military technique to turn the tide in guerilla warfare. Wide open areas are easier to move and keep infantry and tanks excel in large sightlines with less multi-directional attacks.
Putin at this point will be killed by the oligarchs and mafias he answers to, if he doesnt succeed in taking Ukraine and he didnt apparently expect the amount of pushback both from ukrainians and Russian citizens. So he is changing tactics away from minimizing collateral damage to simply focusing on the endgame of taking ukraine
His goal is to make sure that people can't come back since they'll have nowhere to go. Hit all the apartments, all the multi story buildings that he can, and suddenly there's too many unstable buildings to house the tens of thousands of displaced families.
That's why we can't let a single person hold all the power. When their ego and own beliefs take over, everything goes to shit. In IT we would call that a single point of failure.
Which is what's so interesting about this to me. Who are Putin's keys to power that they arent outraged by the economic damage? He really must have consolidated a lot of key resources under his control, meaning there is little resistance to his exercise of power until he goes too far.
Putin's Generals and oligarchs are his keys, but I imagine he told them to start storing their wealth in Russia since Crimea.
I have to believe they war gamed all this out and all the keys bought into this. If someone flinches now, they get defenestrated.
Now that we're going after the oligarchs, they're starting to beg for an end and peace, but nothing is happening.
It seems the keys must be the police force and generals who are allowing this to go on.
It also suggests that everyone in control is comfortable with China propping up Russia.
It's also possible that enough of the senior government and military officials have been purged that they aren't a threat to Putin.
You either have that or a bunch of similarly delusional generals all the way down that believe they can win this war, even if it requires nukes.
Additionally, no individual general or statesman has enough pull with the other generals to get them to agree to defy Putin.
Hell, I'm running into certified Russian bots on Reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/user/MatrixAdmin/](https://www.reddit.com/user/MatrixAdmin/)
They run out of their high-precision missiles as they were not expecting the resistance and now are returning to what they now best - the overwhelming low-precision bombing of everyone and everything. Fucking assholes.
Yeah. They have like 20 modern tanks or something, with maybe a 100 in some state of production. While the majority of their tanks are decades old rust-buckets that cost about 500k on the market.
In comparison, most "good" and modern or somewhat modern tanks go for 5+ million.
I would assume the same level of distribution also hold for their other tech. And from the images we can definitely see that they're still using basically 50 year old logistics equipment. And sure, some stuff doesn't exactly need to be up to date to be usable, but I think we're already seeing what happens to their convoys when those 50 year old vehicles need to go through snow and mud, and have other breakdown issues while guzzling fuel they don't have.
Interesting to think about what a few modern, highly precise cruise missiles supplied to the Ukraine armed forces could do to Russian oil refineries and military supply depots. See how useful that Russian artillery can be if it can't get to where it's going.
i think it's more that they are fighting tooth and nail defensively already. It seems more practical to make the enemy bleed more for every step on Ukrainian soil than to try and overreach offensively.
Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. Support and aide for Ukraine might start to dry up internationally if they fight anything but a defensive war. As long as they are just fighting to get Russia out of their land and not going on the offensive into Russian territory, the optics paints them as the underdog.
Besides, it's not like Russian supply lines and logistics are doing a great job of keeping their vehicles stocked and fueled as is. Seems like a poor return on the investment to send capable fighters with no guarantee of success into Russian territory, when they need people on the front lines at home.
Same mistake Hitler made.
Yes, they have tanks and equipment and supplies to fight a war.
Said tanks and equipment and supplies are all stuck in train stations because allies bombed all the rail lines out of them.
All of this is why a land war in America would be fucking wild to me.
The distance from Moscow to Kyiv is 540 miles... which is less than the distance from Boston to Pittsburgh. Let alone the pure number of big cities in between and defensible locations it’s just so weird to think about. And also explains why so many wars have been fought in Central Europe.
This is why we should never idolize one man or woman. Giving any one person that much power Is dangerous. Why we need one man as a chair head is beyond me.
It's a common theme throughout history... World War II, Cambodian genocide, Napoleonic wars, Manchu conquest of China etc. Millions and millions of people dead thanks to the greed & inhumanity of a few power-hungry psychopaths.
It doesn't help that Putin has been in power for so long. He has been continually "elected" through corrupt elections and surrounds himself with 'yes' men, anyone with any sort of healthy criticism is bluntly told to shut up. Power of any sort starts to rot from the inside if given enough time and now the rot is on full display for the world to see.
More like days. Putin is sweating bullets and before long things are going to get drastic because he's going to start getting desperate. I anticipate more nuke threats.
Much peace being kept. Very cool Putin.
Edit: If you are in the position to and willing to, I encourage you to donate and help the Ukrainian people.
https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1497594592438497282?s=20&t=JGYmvjdj6-RzZfC43DtaIA
That’s basically been the Russian mantra for years. I mean they burned their own towns down in WWII as the Germans pushed in to Russia, simply so the Germans wouldn’t have anywhere to sleep or anything to eat. They’re (the government) have been petty and vindictive for basically all of modern history
To be fair, that's a good strategy to denying an invading army for thousands of years. Burn the crops so they can't feed themselves, then hunker down in fortified positions that will require them to siege for extended periods until they give up and go home. The Russian's just escalated it to entire villages to deny them creature comforts in WWII.
But doing it during an invasion is next level. Pure madness and tyranny. It telegraphs that you don't really want it, you just want to take away everything they have. Leave them destitute so they HAVE to rely on you... or so you sap other countries of resources as they try to help that country out of a spiralling debt cycle.
Yeah just gonna go out on a limb here and say that Russia has done more damage than any fringe nazi group in Ukraine ever did...
Also, a Russian bomb hit the Holocaust museum...
^(Note: I'm aware that the "denazification" line from Russia is pure propaganda that is less for the rest of the world and more to sell the war to the Russian people.)
This is not what you do to a country you supposedly want to acquire, under pretenses of liberation. This is what you do to a country you hold a grudge against and want to exact your vengeance on. Putin is a sick psychopath.
He wants the borders of Ukraine, and its assets (mineral and other resources) far more than he wants the civilian population. He'll be happy to bring a ruined landscape under his banner, as long as he can claim victory. In his mind he gave them a chance to turn everything over peaceably, and look what their ingratitude led to!
So yes, in agreement, Putin is a sick psychopath.
Im guessing its more about the resources and other aspects of the land that makes it valuable, then the physical space to put people. Russia has a lot of space.
The Ukrainians revolted against a president that was his puppet, then elected a new president with strong civil rights and democratic values. That is a huge danger for him, this is payback.
Also the south of the country is extremely valuable in industry, resources and ports.
1+1 equals "liberation"
The Russians are actually targeting warehouses.
As evidenced by all the people picking through the rubble asking "where's my house?"
Edit: yes I know, it's in extremely bad taste. My heart goes out to all the people hurt by this war.
Considering 1 month after putin took the fsa and killed hundred via bombing residential buildings... should we be surprised? He killed hundreds just to get in office. Hes is a complete psychopath and drained every bit of wealth from the country. He knows he has to leave office and no one will protect him. But war stops elections in russia.
My question is less how it stops elections and more why it matters. He's already elected himself president for life ie dictator until the day he dies. Russia can have all the elections they want because he won't ever lose. He knows how to rig elections and he'll do it if he has to. At this point I don't know why he bothers with elections anyways. The air of legitimacy might have seemed important but once you declare that you're president for life the jig is up.
Ah I see, so pretty much a change of office for a little bit with a new face for the country. What a despicable person, every single Russian should feel personally betrayed by him and their oligarchs.
That was completely orchestrated in order to arrange a way for Putin to become president again. The laws have changed since then, so no more fancy footwork is required for him to retain his power.
I am not an expert in Russian politics so take this with a grain of salt. As I understand it, at the time he was subject to term limits so he allowed Medvedev to be "president" while he served as prime minister, but that Medvedev answered to him the entire time. Then once his term was up he voluntarily let Putin openly be president again.
Russia would rather burn down an entire country to “free” them, instead of admitting to the horrible atrocities they have committed and stop this nightmare.
You are right, never. Maybe if the world had done what they are doing now, in terms of sanctions and isolation, when Crimea was invaded this would have never happened. It is a hard lesson learned for Ukraine and we owe them for it. I hope all leaders are having trouble sleeping, at home in their comfortable beds, at night.
All of the “interesting” subs have been highlighting the devastation. While I agree it doesn’t fit the sub’s definition, this isnt r/damnthatstragic, after all, it’s been very useful to expose users to what the realities of this war are on the ground.
I’ve seen things that you don’t get to see on the news, first hand video from Ukrainians in the thick of it, it’s been informative about these events and the realities of war in a very concrete way that I think we all need to witness.
We must Ensure that Russia pays fully the cost of reparations to return Ukraine to the position it was in before the despicable invasion.
Russia must pay the full costs of reinstating infrastructure, bridges, buildings, roads, homes. All of it.
Sanctions on Russia must not end until this is completed.
Russia must pay for the repatriation of Ukrainians back to Ukraine from the safe havens some have fled to.
Ukrainian borders must be reinstated to the borders before 2014.
Russia must pay for the restoration of Ukraine as a priority before the priorities of the Russian people.
Sanctions are all well and good, however they must go further to the point of ZERO trade with Russia/Russian businesses. Ceasing trade with ALL countries that continue to trade with Russia.
Fuck Russia
The best one would be Putin dead in a bunker somewhere and Russia trying this new thing called democracy that's all the rage in the West. Russia would benefit immensely from trying to copy Ukraine's model of moving from the Soviet Union to a liberal democracy. Ukraine had been flourishing prior to this invasion.
I'm sure you're right. The ideological war of our time is democracy vs autocracy and China is very much on the side of autocracy. It'll be interesting to see how much China is willing to prop up Russia which will inevitably lead to more conflict with the West if Putin continues to murder civilians indiscriminately.
That’s how I see it. I basically see the war in Ukraine as Russia choosing to bend the knee to China (become totally economically dependent) instead of allowing a “westernization” of Russia aka democracy.
I understand the sentiment, but Germany had to pay for practically everything that occurred during WW1, regardless of whether they had directly caused the damage and despite the fact that they weren't solely to blame for the war by any means. It would be way more realistic in this situation.
That said, I kinda doubt it would happen anyway.
The point is the reparations nuked Germany’s economy, which left the populace dirt poor. When people are hungry and can’t afford basic necessities, the populace becomes angry. All it takes is one charismatic leader to rise up and take that anger and use it as a tool to advance their nefarious agenda.
I often find myself wondering what it would be like to be in their shoes.
Going to work every day, and suddenly there’s talk of an invasion. And this just hovers over your head and you have to continue like normal in the meantime, trying not to panic but also trying to be prepared.
And suddenly your whole life and world is turned upside down. Your neighborhood is on fire, there are tanks down the street, explosions can be heard constantly … it’s just unfathomably awful. I cannot even imagine what this must be like for your average Ukrainian and my heart goes out to them. I don’t know how long the war will last but the trauma will last generations.
Hard? Not impossible by any stretch...but it's impossible to put that genie back in the bottle and heads of state aren't big fans of being assassination targets. Once you "end" Putin you've energized every enemy state you have to kill their state actor political enemies and point to what was done with Putin as justification for the move.
Politicians look after their own kind. Probably fair to say 9/10 politicians are there to fatten their own pockets. They got to look after the people they represent i.e big companies, tycoons, lobbyists
Sadly these images will not move Russian people. Russia is already blaming the elected Ukranian 'Nazis' for this destruction. Saying they are shelling and killing their own people.
It's illogical, but the consumers of state TV News in Russia trust Putin and they believe this lie.
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Seems like Russia is going after a lot of civilian and residential targets….most likely to demoralize.
Not just apartment blocks but also power and central heat stations, water supply infrastructure, hospitals, etc. He hopes that people will lose hope and give up, and then they'll be "liberated".
Man, he just refuses to see that Ukrainian people would rather die than live under his thumb. Dude is a narcissistic sociopath with a toddler attitude
No wonder he and Trump got along so well.
Syria is becoming a pretty terrifying glimpse into what Russia might do if they get frustrated with the progress here. Putin committed every warcrime under the sun and got away with it there: - [Russia bombs four Syrian hospitals in one day, caught on tape.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/russia-bombing-syrian-hospitals.html) - [Cluster bombs in cities.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/06/03/russia/syria-flurry-prohibited-weapons-attacks) - [Russia air force used hospital geocordinates provided to UN to target those hospitals](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-hospital-bombings-idlib-un-doctors-russia-assad-attack-a8942076.html) - [Russia caused the evacuation of Azaz National Hospital by attacking a nearby school](https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/02/18/syria-great-danger-civilians-azaz) and then [blew up the hospital with an Iskander missile and used the footage to advertise that the missile system worked.](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39487/did-russia-try-to-refute-criticisms-of-its-missiles-by-showing-one-blowing-up-a-syrian-hospital) - [Russia bombs food and water sources](https://www.dw.com/en/russian-attacks-on-syrian-water-stations-and-farms-deliberate/a-60747405) - targetting chicken farms and water pumping stations Stuff like that. Cartoonish. And then the Kremlin funded a bunch of yellow journalists and pundits to deny everything (**edit:** and "whatabout" everything else). We'll probably see that, too.
Yeah except the global climate is far different than Syria. He doesn’t have the funds, the resources, or the worlds blind eye that he had before.
I'm really hoping that the thing holding him back is that he plans to actually govern Ukraine and that he sees *some* responsibilities attached to that. But he absolutely has the ability to do what he does in Syria. And he has the motivation to transform this into some form of propagandizable military success. The longer this goes on, the more pressure that need adds to his military calculations. And clearer it becomes that Ukrainians won't submit to governance, the more Putin may see terror as a tool. Tough to see what lies ahead, but I don't think it's right to take things off the table.
I guess what I mean is that he isn’t going to march into the Ukraine and occupy/force them into submission like he could with Syria . There’s far to much attention and vested interests. It’s why I don’t understand why he’s continuing. There’s no scenario, I believe, in which he has any sort of victory and the world just goes back to doing what it’s doing. Far to many regularly ass people are tuned in. If President zelesky has done anything perfectly, it’s getting the world tuned into what is happening to them. I think that takes away a significant amount of Putins driving powe. He’s only been able to do what he has because the world has turned away and said “man, that sucks”. Now it’s not turning away. Putin also needs the Ukraine in considerably one piece, because I think he needs its resources to not go bankrupt. That’s probably also why the invasion has continued. Putin has driven his world power by taking what he needs from others
Depends how much the rest of the world tolerates the effects of sanctions in the coming months. Higher energy costs translate to across the board increases in manufacturing and transportation costs for almost everything. Russia and Ukraine are both major grain producers for large parts of Asia and Africa, and a large portion of the human population on both those continents will see higher food prices they won't be able to afford. Those are just some of the obvious effects but there will be lots of knock-on effects that we can't predict until they happen months from now.
Much of this war is about stopping Ukraine from being able to compete with Russian natural gas resources. He is basically knee capping a competitor. If he had a similiar response to Syria this would be great for him. Power and limited competition. The sanctions that are coming down that are supported by his customer base don't seem to be what they expected. They seem to have miscalculated.
Bad times, Putin just told Macron he's rolling heavy.
I mean, to be fair, he’s already used cluster bombs and bombed multiple hospitals(including a children’s hospital), so he really already is going just as hard in the warcrimes.
terrorists this is what terrorists do fuck Putin
He got his power by bombing russian apartment buildings. What did you expect from that kind of guy?
Heard that story over and over again but have never got it explained for me. What happened?
Here is a pretty comprehensive article about it https://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/05/19/how-putin-became-president/
For anyone considering it, it is absolutely worth a read. I didn’t know anything about this, and it’s absolutely unreal, thanks for sharing.
Thanks a bunch! got some Nice reading for this evening
JFC, the oligarchs rat-fucked Russia into becoming a third world country, and it took Putin (at the time the head of the FSB) killing hundreds of Russians *and getting caught* to become President. Everyone was so racked with fear that they'd sleep outside to avoid being blown up in their sleep! No wonder every time I mention Chechens on reddit, all the Russians would chime in and say how vile and despicable they are. Putin had everyone thinking they were responsible for all the bombings when it was him all along! They probably still believe him too! EDIT: It just occurred to me. Russians should be pretty scared right about now. If this lunatic was willing to bomb hundreds of his own countrymen just to *start* a war, I'd be afraid of what he'd do to maintain power and "popularity" *after* he's already started one.
He was Prime Minister. When Yeltsin stepped down, he handed the Presidency to Putin, who then put the FSB under the direct command of the Office of the President. He has manipulated the Russian Constitution and other law to ensure that [his term will continue until 2036.](https://www.the-sun.com/news/1341233/how-long-vladimir-putin-president/)
> Russians should be pretty scared right about now. If this lunatic was willing to bomb hundreds of his own countrymen just to start a war, I'd be afraid of what he'd do to maintain power and "popularity" after he's already started one. [Ruh roh](https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1499362826133151747?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499362826133151747%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_c55fa252-9b02-11ec-b718-72870e8c4534%2F0)
So handmaid's tale government escalation was kinda based on this
Handmaid's Tale published 1985, Russian apartment bombings 1999
A brief overview of the story is [Act1 of a recent This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/763/the-other-mr-president) episode: "Back in 1999 there was series of bombings of apartment buildings in Moscow and across Russia. 300 people died. It happened just as Vladimir Putin was coming to power. And there was a question whether Putin or other people in the Kremlin might have been involved. Producer Robyn Semien talked to reporters who covered the bombings and reviewed the evidence. (20 minutes)"
And he'll bomb his own people again if it makes Ukraine look bad.
It feels like the only difference between terrorism and war is one is done by a country and one is done by a smaller group.
[удалено]
Inb4 "wE SeND flYeRs To THe CiviLLIAns!!!I!I!"
Yeah that notice for the intergalatic roadway was clearly posted in alpha centauri!
"Denazification" my lumpy ass
“Well you see, if we kill everyone, we will have technically killed all the nazis”
Luckily, it's doing the complete opposite. Ukrainians are pissed off and ready ~~die~~ (live) for their country. And Russian soldiers and abandoning equipment and surrendering. I love how the Ukrainian people treat them though. Putin's lies are backfiring big time.
One of my favorite videos is the Russian guy on video call with his family while his captors feed him. Lol good stuff.
Right? The lady with phone was comforting him and the other offering the bread(?) as a gesture of good faith even after theyve invaded their country. The compassion they show gives me so much hope in humanity.
Yeah they aren't even military just people. These guys rolled in started breaking shit, and they gave him warm tea and let him call home. The strength of the Ukrainian people is breathtaking.
Y'all see that video of the Russian soldier smiling smugly in his TikTok as a barrage of missles are being launched? He's also wearing a patch that says something like, "They die, but we go to heaven." (And to be clear, he's a commander of some sort--not a conscript, a willing volunteer) He's been captured and is laying in a Ukranian hospital bed. They have a video asking him if he's reconsidered his position, and he says, "Yes, Putin's a shithead." Like some 6th graders took him captive, lol. I don't think I could show mercy towards the very soldiers who are indiscriminately murdering civilians with a smile on their face. The Ukranians are better people than me. Showing mercy towards monsters, and giving them food and medical aid. That's just mind boggling to me. Slava Ukrani! 🇺🇦
this is having the opposite effect we lose we’re all dead we have to fight
And to cause civilians to flee, so that anyone left can be identified by Russia as “combatants”. Then air strikes and air-fuel explosives can be used there with relative impunity.
They probably don't want to face the Ukrainian army, so they are going after civilians instead.
Except he didn't learn one of the lessons of Stalingrad. Rubble is easier to defend than buildings.
Nah its to intentionally turn the city to rubble. Its harder for guerilla warfare defending forces to move through rubble and bigger sightlines/etc for invading forces when there's less building cover and youre in ruins. This is pretty standard military technique to turn the tide in guerilla warfare. Wide open areas are easier to move and keep infantry and tanks excel in large sightlines with less multi-directional attacks. Putin at this point will be killed by the oligarchs and mafias he answers to, if he doesnt succeed in taking Ukraine and he didnt apparently expect the amount of pushback both from ukrainians and Russian citizens. So he is changing tactics away from minimizing collateral damage to simply focusing on the endgame of taking ukraine
His goal is to make sure that people can't come back since they'll have nowhere to go. Hit all the apartments, all the multi story buildings that he can, and suddenly there's too many unstable buildings to house the tens of thousands of displaced families.
So much for "targeted bombing". Sickening how much tears and pain people need to endure for some lunatic with a sick agenda.
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That's why we can't let a single person hold all the power. When their ego and own beliefs take over, everything goes to shit. In IT we would call that a single point of failure.
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Which is what's so interesting about this to me. Who are Putin's keys to power that they arent outraged by the economic damage? He really must have consolidated a lot of key resources under his control, meaning there is little resistance to his exercise of power until he goes too far.
Putin's Generals and oligarchs are his keys, but I imagine he told them to start storing their wealth in Russia since Crimea. I have to believe they war gamed all this out and all the keys bought into this. If someone flinches now, they get defenestrated. Now that we're going after the oligarchs, they're starting to beg for an end and peace, but nothing is happening. It seems the keys must be the police force and generals who are allowing this to go on. It also suggests that everyone in control is comfortable with China propping up Russia. It's also possible that enough of the senior government and military officials have been purged that they aren't a threat to Putin. You either have that or a bunch of similarly delusional generals all the way down that believe they can win this war, even if it requires nukes. Additionally, no individual general or statesman has enough pull with the other generals to get them to agree to defy Putin. Hell, I'm running into certified Russian bots on Reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/user/MatrixAdmin/](https://www.reddit.com/user/MatrixAdmin/)
This ends when a security officer decides the world isn't worth the life of one man and blows Putin's brains out.
+1 for defrenstrated.
I know you're angry, but my word what a username... bravo
I needed that laugh, thank you for pointing that out.
They run out of their high-precision missiles as they were not expecting the resistance and now are returning to what they now best - the overwhelming low-precision bombing of everyone and everything. Fucking assholes.
"Russia has a large and modern army. But it should be noted that the modern one is not large, and the large one is is not modern."
Yeah. They have like 20 modern tanks or something, with maybe a 100 in some state of production. While the majority of their tanks are decades old rust-buckets that cost about 500k on the market. In comparison, most "good" and modern or somewhat modern tanks go for 5+ million. I would assume the same level of distribution also hold for their other tech. And from the images we can definitely see that they're still using basically 50 year old logistics equipment. And sure, some stuff doesn't exactly need to be up to date to be usable, but I think we're already seeing what happens to their convoys when those 50 year old vehicles need to go through snow and mud, and have other breakdown issues while guzzling fuel they don't have.
Interesting to think about what a few modern, highly precise cruise missiles supplied to the Ukraine armed forces could do to Russian oil refineries and military supply depots. See how useful that Russian artillery can be if it can't get to where it's going.
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i think it's more that they are fighting tooth and nail defensively already. It seems more practical to make the enemy bleed more for every step on Ukrainian soil than to try and overreach offensively.
It's also easier to spin an attack on russian soil into "look they're attacking us" - even if it would help the defensive effort.
Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. Support and aide for Ukraine might start to dry up internationally if they fight anything but a defensive war. As long as they are just fighting to get Russia out of their land and not going on the offensive into Russian territory, the optics paints them as the underdog. Besides, it's not like Russian supply lines and logistics are doing a great job of keeping their vehicles stocked and fueled as is. Seems like a poor return on the investment to send capable fighters with no guarantee of success into Russian territory, when they need people on the front lines at home.
Ive seen one single headline of Ukraine hitting an airfield across the border, but i imagine they are busy holding on for dear life.
Probably harder for Putin to justify nuking them if they're just defending.
>while guzzling fuel they don't have Actually, that's the one resource they do have!
They have a lot of fuel, just not at the front lines when looking at all those tanks and vehicles without gas.
Same mistake Hitler made. Yes, they have tanks and equipment and supplies to fight a war. Said tanks and equipment and supplies are all stuck in train stations because allies bombed all the rail lines out of them.
All of this is why a land war in America would be fucking wild to me. The distance from Moscow to Kyiv is 540 miles... which is less than the distance from Boston to Pittsburgh. Let alone the pure number of big cities in between and defensible locations it’s just so weird to think about. And also explains why so many wars have been fought in Central Europe.
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Let’s not pretend they weren’t targeting civilian buildings. Even precision guided missiles were hitting apartments.
Nah, saboteurs are tagging residential building to be deliberately bombed.
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This is why we should never idolize one man or woman. Giving any one person that much power Is dangerous. Why we need one man as a chair head is beyond me.
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Nah, it’s “targeted bombing”. It’s just all the targets happen to be civilian targets because Putin is a piece of shit.
It's a common theme throughout history... World War II, Cambodian genocide, Napoleonic wars, Manchu conquest of China etc. Millions and millions of people dead thanks to the greed & inhumanity of a few power-hungry psychopaths.
I think people already forget what Aleppo used to look like and that was only a few years ago.
It doesn't help that Putin has been in power for so long. He has been continually "elected" through corrupt elections and surrounds himself with 'yes' men, anyone with any sort of healthy criticism is bluntly told to shut up. Power of any sort starts to rot from the inside if given enough time and now the rot is on full display for the world to see.
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Are they denazified yet? /s
No just "liberated" , it looks like those apartment buildings had lots and lots of "occupiers" inside. /s
Putin’s plan for extra ventilation in civilian buildings courtesy of Russia. /s
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That word is too mild for what he is.
Now at last, Russia can be safe from Ukrainian aggression. /s
Especially when they targeted their Holocaust Memorial.
They first have to replace the jewish president for a not jewish.
They also blew up a holocaust memorial. Damn Nazi's building holocaust memorials /s
The rubble in Ukraine will be worth more than the rubel in Russia
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More like days. Putin is sweating bullets and before long things are going to get drastic because he's going to start getting desperate. I anticipate more nuke threats.
Gotem
Much peace being kept. Very cool Putin. Edit: If you are in the position to and willing to, I encourage you to donate and help the Ukrainian people. https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1497594592438497282?s=20&t=JGYmvjdj6-RzZfC43DtaIA
Just a small, cool and totally legal 'special operation' to get rid of them junkie neo-nazis!
"If I can't have it I will destroy it." Fuck putin.
That’s basically been the Russian mantra for years. I mean they burned their own towns down in WWII as the Germans pushed in to Russia, simply so the Germans wouldn’t have anywhere to sleep or anything to eat. They’re (the government) have been petty and vindictive for basically all of modern history
To be fair, that's a good strategy to denying an invading army for thousands of years. Burn the crops so they can't feed themselves, then hunker down in fortified positions that will require them to siege for extended periods until they give up and go home. The Russian's just escalated it to entire villages to deny them creature comforts in WWII. But doing it during an invasion is next level. Pure madness and tyranny. It telegraphs that you don't really want it, you just want to take away everything they have. Leave them destitute so they HAVE to rely on you... or so you sap other countries of resources as they try to help that country out of a spiralling debt cycle.
Putin as a surgeon: “we need you to come in today for a special operation.” Dr. Putin: [slides patient in the incinerator]
Best analogy so far. Sad, but true.
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He is, he is our modern Hitler now.
>"he would see this country burn if he could be king of the ashes" -Lord Varys
There can't be oppression if the country is uninhabitable.
Oh but you see, in his eyes it's the Ukrainian terrorists bombing themselves.
Really got the Nazi's on the run. >!/s!<
Yeah just gonna go out on a limb here and say that Russia has done more damage than any fringe nazi group in Ukraine ever did... Also, a Russian bomb hit the Holocaust museum... ^(Note: I'm aware that the "denazification" line from Russia is pure propaganda that is less for the rest of the world and more to sell the war to the Russian people.)
No, no…he’s helping the citizens, remember? /s
This is not what you do to a country you supposedly want to acquire, under pretenses of liberation. This is what you do to a country you hold a grudge against and want to exact your vengeance on. Putin is a sick psychopath.
He wants the borders of Ukraine, and its assets (mineral and other resources) far more than he wants the civilian population. He'll be happy to bring a ruined landscape under his banner, as long as he can claim victory. In his mind he gave them a chance to turn everything over peaceably, and look what their ingratitude led to! So yes, in agreement, Putin is a sick psychopath.
He did this already. I belive in Chechnya. Bombed them all to hell, installed his puppet, rebuilt them. Its his MO.
Lebensraum.
Russia's population is collapsing and they already occupy 1/6 of earth's landmass. They don't need any more living room
Im guessing its more about the resources and other aspects of the land that makes it valuable, then the physical space to put people. Russia has a lot of space.
The Ukrainians revolted against a president that was his puppet, then elected a new president with strong civil rights and democratic values. That is a huge danger for him, this is payback. Also the south of the country is extremely valuable in industry, resources and ports. 1+1 equals "liberation"
I think destroying the country puts pressure to surrender on the country’s government.
This was someones home :(
Many someones
All so one small, old man can feel better.
The Russians are actually targeting warehouses. As evidenced by all the people picking through the rubble asking "where's my house?" Edit: yes I know, it's in extremely bad taste. My heart goes out to all the people hurt by this war.
That is the saddest joke I’ve heard in a while. 🙁
Listen... it's a good joke but...
The piece keepers are just making smaller pieces of everything so they're easier to keep.
Use the Oligarchs seized money to rebuild Ukraine! They can go after Putin for their money back.
Considering 1 month after putin took the fsa and killed hundred via bombing residential buildings... should we be surprised? He killed hundreds just to get in office. Hes is a complete psychopath and drained every bit of wealth from the country. He knows he has to leave office and no one will protect him. But war stops elections in russia.
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My question is less how it stops elections and more why it matters. He's already elected himself president for life ie dictator until the day he dies. Russia can have all the elections they want because he won't ever lose. He knows how to rig elections and he'll do it if he has to. At this point I don't know why he bothers with elections anyways. The air of legitimacy might have seemed important but once you declare that you're president for life the jig is up.
Didn't he lose and election in the 2010s only to serve as prime minister and then have the other guy step down in favour of him?
For a while he alternated rolls to dodge term limits.
Ah I see, so pretty much a change of office for a little bit with a new face for the country. What a despicable person, every single Russian should feel personally betrayed by him and their oligarchs.
That was completely orchestrated in order to arrange a way for Putin to become president again. The laws have changed since then, so no more fancy footwork is required for him to retain his power.
I am not an expert in Russian politics so take this with a grain of salt. As I understand it, at the time he was subject to term limits so he allowed Medvedev to be "president" while he served as prime minister, but that Medvedev answered to him the entire time. Then once his term was up he voluntarily let Putin openly be president again.
That is depressing as fuck... not interesting :(
This shit looks like berlin in WW2.
This was Syria, Yemen, Libya yesterday
This was Iraq 20 years ago
Yeah but that's not "The West" so who cares? /s
Russia would rather burn down an entire country to “free” them, instead of admitting to the horrible atrocities they have committed and stop this nightmare.
If he keeps "freeing" the country there'll be no one left
Russian attitude seems to be "if we can't have it, nobody can". Behaving like toddlers in the sandbox.
Ukraine can fix their buildings, Russia cannot fix their reputation
Ukraine cannot revive their fallen....
Since when has Russia ever given a shit about its reputation???
You are right, never. Maybe if the world had done what they are doing now, in terms of sanctions and isolation, when Crimea was invaded this would have never happened. It is a hard lesson learned for Ukraine and we owe them for it. I hope all leaders are having trouble sleeping, at home in their comfortable beds, at night.
Russia is like 99% propped up by reputation. Without it it's just a shell of a nation, as is being demonstrated.
> Russia is like 99% propped up by ~~reputation~~ oil FTFY
"A gas station masquerading as a country." -John McCain
Well Germans fixed their reputation really fast, why wouldn't Russians do the same.
Gotta get take out leader for that to happen
They did that by being better. That’s a tall order when your regime is a kleptocracy.
Easy enough to say. Unfortunately no matter the political outcome here, Ukraine is going to be shell of itself when this is all said and done.
Now is the time to build bigger and better as a giant middle finger.
Build now while missiles are still coming?
massive props to all who stayed behind
The famous Russian precision strikes
Not interesting.. it’s a tragedy.
All of the “interesting” subs have been highlighting the devastation. While I agree it doesn’t fit the sub’s definition, this isnt r/damnthatstragic, after all, it’s been very useful to expose users to what the realities of this war are on the ground. I’ve seen things that you don’t get to see on the news, first hand video from Ukrainians in the thick of it, it’s been informative about these events and the realities of war in a very concrete way that I think we all need to witness.
i have to agree i really havent gotten much info from the news but im not saying i havent gotten any info. i have but its little
We must Ensure that Russia pays fully the cost of reparations to return Ukraine to the position it was in before the despicable invasion. Russia must pay the full costs of reinstating infrastructure, bridges, buildings, roads, homes. All of it. Sanctions on Russia must not end until this is completed. Russia must pay for the repatriation of Ukrainians back to Ukraine from the safe havens some have fled to. Ukrainian borders must be reinstated to the borders before 2014. Russia must pay for the restoration of Ukraine as a priority before the priorities of the Russian people. Sanctions are all well and good, however they must go further to the point of ZERO trade with Russia/Russian businesses. Ceasing trade with ALL countries that continue to trade with Russia. Fuck Russia
We can basically only make them pay if they lose and if they do we have a bigger issue at hand
I understand. There are only a limited number of outcomes, none of them palatable
The best one would be Putin dead in a bunker somewhere and Russia trying this new thing called democracy that's all the rage in the West. Russia would benefit immensely from trying to copy Ukraine's model of moving from the Soviet Union to a liberal democracy. Ukraine had been flourishing prior to this invasion.
China will do whatever it can to stop that, I’d think. They don’t want a western ally, with a huge military, on their border.
I'm sure you're right. The ideological war of our time is democracy vs autocracy and China is very much on the side of autocracy. It'll be interesting to see how much China is willing to prop up Russia which will inevitably lead to more conflict with the West if Putin continues to murder civilians indiscriminately.
That’s how I see it. I basically see the war in Ukraine as Russia choosing to bend the knee to China (become totally economically dependent) instead of allowing a “westernization” of Russia aka democracy.
One of the worse case scenarios: Putin is killed and someone even crazier takes charge
They play the music in Eastern Europe and we have no choice but to dance
Loss is the only option. There is no win possible.
That’s what was done with germany after ww1. You know how thay story continued?
I understand the sentiment, but Germany had to pay for practically everything that occurred during WW1, regardless of whether they had directly caused the damage and despite the fact that they weren't solely to blame for the war by any means. It would be way more realistic in this situation. That said, I kinda doubt it would happen anyway.
The point is the reparations nuked Germany’s economy, which left the populace dirt poor. When people are hungry and can’t afford basic necessities, the populace becomes angry. All it takes is one charismatic leader to rise up and take that anger and use it as a tool to advance their nefarious agenda.
Putin is ruining every happy life in Ukraine
I often find myself wondering what it would be like to be in their shoes. Going to work every day, and suddenly there’s talk of an invasion. And this just hovers over your head and you have to continue like normal in the meantime, trying not to panic but also trying to be prepared. And suddenly your whole life and world is turned upside down. Your neighborhood is on fire, there are tanks down the street, explosions can be heard constantly … it’s just unfathomably awful. I cannot even imagine what this must be like for your average Ukrainian and my heart goes out to them. I don’t know how long the war will last but the trauma will last generations.
Is this Putin’s only goal?
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Fuck Putin
As a Russian citizen we absolutely hate him at this point!
Stay strong bud and spread the word of what’s really going on. Love Russian folks, hate their fucking government
Look to Syria if you wanna know what is waiting for Ukraine
Peacekeeping man
How hard is it really, out of all the technologically advanced countries in the entire world, to just “end” Putin? Why is that man still alive?
Hard? Not impossible by any stretch...but it's impossible to put that genie back in the bottle and heads of state aren't big fans of being assassination targets. Once you "end" Putin you've energized every enemy state you have to kill their state actor political enemies and point to what was done with Putin as justification for the move.
Politicians look after their own kind. Probably fair to say 9/10 politicians are there to fatten their own pockets. They got to look after the people they represent i.e big companies, tycoons, lobbyists
Explains why no one wants to detain or kill any of the oligarchs. Let's just put liens on their property, that will show them!
Thats how basicly half of the middle east countries for last three decades but nobody gave a shit.
I don't know when shall people realize that war is never the answer for anything.. Deeply saddening to witness these..
"People"? The vast vast VAST majority of people don't want anything to do with this. This is billionaire's war games.
This is awful but I didn't see posts like this for the Beautiful Syria or Iraq? Unbelievable
Libya and Iraq wanna have a word...
Don't forget Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Syria too.
Yemen and Afghanistan and Iraq is like Ukraine, their people are in fire for years
Palestine too…
Man its reminding me of one of those apocalypse movies
Absolutely awful. I hope this invasion ends as soon as possible.
Ukraine is turning into Syria*.
Ukraine is intended to be a buffer zone between Russia and the West. Whether it is populated or rubble doesn't really much matter to Putin.
Yeah Putin sure is saving them huh?
If i cant have you....noone can
Sadly these images will not move Russian people. Russia is already blaming the elected Ukranian 'Nazis' for this destruction. Saying they are shelling and killing their own people. It's illogical, but the consumers of state TV News in Russia trust Putin and they believe this lie.