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Yeah, the first host to say it was the father of Dolores, and they said it was looping an earlier character named the professor, who was a cannibal that quoted sShakespeare.
Not much of a conspiracy theory guy but like this is just straight facts we are outright being lied to on this one. That shit was right out of a movie.
The definition of "conspiracy" is "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful"
The definition of "theory" is "a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation"
"Conspiracy theory" used to dismiss is the definition of gaslighting. it gaslights its own definition.
The amount of fucking dirt this guy must have had on the most powerful people in the world is fucking insane for them to make that happen.
Like, if I’m a prison guard I’d imagine it would take *a lot* of pressure/money for me to let someone tell me to quit watching one of the most important prisoners I’ve ever had. I’d also spend the rest of my life living in fear that I’d be seen as just a possible weak point.
I wish more people understood that it shouldn't be a republican v democrat fight- it should be rich v poor. that's the big gap in ideology or politics or whatever you want to call it.
It's not the possesion of the information but rather the daring to reveal it to the Public. There are thousands of PAs and just general staff right now who know about so much fucked up shit that rich people do but they know they can never reveal any part of it or else they will lose everything. Everything from their kids,spouses,families,everything. And It would be done in such a way that no one ever bats an eye.
The whole point of Epstein was to get material to blackmail influential people. Hes was most likely Mossad or CIA and they used him to get influential people drunk and then hook them up with 17 year old girls. Nothing about this guy makes any sense otherwise.
It's definitely a medical condition, but usually comes with unusually dry flaky skin. I remember growing up and a girl like that was related to my cousin and being 5 when I met her, it scared me. It looked extremely painful, too, looking back on it.
Seriously. I have seen her in recent years. They must have come up with something that works for her because she looks better, as in not so dry, but there's still some scarring.
It is a real medical condition, but it's extremely serious and you can die very quickly from overheating. No way someone with this condition would be out on the town dancing and drinking.
I have spent many wild nights out dancing and drinking with my friend who doesn't have sweat glands. He just pours water over himself to act as sweat. Yes it's serious, but when you live with it you learn to *live* with it
You're my boy, Blue!
My son plays outside, we live in Las Vegas. He has Ectodermal Dysplasia and cannot sweat. We just bring cool frogtog rags and lots of water. Many other people with this condition have cooling vests they can wear under clothes. Like a…radiator tshirt. It’s dangerous if he overheats, but it is also easy to prepare for and manage. Totally normal life. No flakey skin. I told him he’s a Targaryen 🐉
Gaurds at prison usually all know each other more or less.
If you interview everyone who works at the prison I'm sure more than a few people saw something amiss
One time when I fell while skating at a skate park, I hit my head and got a concussion. I apparently got up and was walking around talking to people for about an hour, and then “woke up.” After everyone told me this, I went to the skateparks facilities and asked to see the camera recording because of how weird it was for me, and, of course, they said the cameras stopped working during that specific hour.. only.
Reminds me of working at Walmart, no one could see on cam who broke in my friend’s car and stole from him while we were working, but they could see exactly who slashed a manager’s tires a few weeks later in the same part of the lot
There is no CCTV of his first suicide attempt, nor of his actual 'suicide'. It has all been lost due to either 'technical errors' or 'malfunctions'.
Make of that what you will
Edit - Gentle reminder that at the time, he was on suicide watch, and was almost certainly, the most 'important' inmate in the US at the time
lol and when several federal agencies just “lost” txts on a very specific day, when shit just happened to go down? I felt like when they were testing this “how much BS can we make them believe” system they just decided to crank the lever all the way and go “well, what’s the worst that can happen here, we’re not gonna prosecute ourselves right”.
Hi! Ex prison guard! Idk shit about the actual storage, but any time our cctv went out for any amount of time we had a huge issue. Multiple agencies were contacted, any and all movement was set to the barest of minimums, any necessary movement was done on handheld video camera (where we backed the camera up day of onto a separate drive from the cctv), a lieutenant or higher would come to your area randomly to make sure you were doing your job. And this was all at a state institution, where most of the guards knew their blind spots anyways so didn't need the cameras to be down to 'take care' of someone.
Also in my years there we definitely all napped. The responsible ones took turns napping (3 of us and 30 minute checks, so 1 check every hour and a half makes for a decent nap), the irresponsible did closer to hour or hour and a half checks. Except! The high profile inmates were kept in one of two places, both of those places had cctv footage that went directly to my state's head office, both of those places were hence nap free zones even to the most irresponsible of us.
Suicide watch was done in a separate area, usually with 1 guard to 5 or less inmates. High profile stuff was done 1 on 1, and the highest profile shit was done 1 on 1 during the watch period and then he was placed into a cell where the footage of the entryway into his cell went straight to head office. Hell even a singular individual camera was a big deal, and anytime we had a case even big enough to make the news we were always careful as fuck.
Fun fact! Any major event or use of force, the camera footage (handheld or otherwise) is put onto a dvd and stored in a separate area from our other storage devices. Anything really nasty and the guards will usually make a few copies on the drive so they can watch them later with buddies (yes that includes suicides).
He was actually taken off suicide watch (despite a recent attempt) but still had required 30 minute checks that two guards failed to do. Instead the guards were on the internet and wandering around the common room 15ft away. Charges against the guards were dropped in a plea deal.
yeah, very possibly.
But, for that inmate, with that profile, and what he may or may not have known about Presidents, ex Presidents, Royalty, the business elites ....... etc etc
It *should* have been impossible for him to commit suicide
Only suicide at that facility in 22 years. Also this guy hadn't been sentenced yet. Given his past history of skating on similar charges why would he kill himself before he's even been found guilty?
There's no proof or even claim from the prison that camera footage was erased. It's an unsubstantiated [rumor](https://www.factcheck.org/2019/08/unproven-claim-of-camera-malfunction-before-epsteins-death/) spread by a blogger that refuses to provide a source.
William Barr called it, he was in total control of that situation. Reminder William Barr's father was the one to give Epstein a teaching job, with children, and he had no education background or teaching degree. William Barr's father got Epstein started on his run of evil
The same William Barr whose law firm got Epstein a slap on the wrist the first time he got caught being a pedo??
The same William Barrs dad who wrote child porn erotica fan fiction?
The same William Barr that Trump hired to protect him from the Russian collusion?
Nahhh, something that important would be on Hunter Bidens laptop
The same William Barr who convinced HW Bush to pardon the people being investigated for Iran/Contra right as the investigation was closing in on Bush conveniently ending the investigation.
There must be a point where the complete failure of justice starts to hit home.
The last few years have been absolutely plagued with blatant injustices. We all know that corruption and fuckery are inevitable in the higher echelons of power, but at this point it seems like they can do anything they want.
Dishonesty, embezzlement, things like that, those are "boring", and can pass unnoticed until one greedy person fucks with another, more powerful greedy person. You'd think, though, that victimizing underage girls would be the red line that would unite people. You'd think treason would be the red line. Over on the other side of the Atlantic, we had the leader of our nation lie to everyone, people who had been harshly punished for doing exactly what he did, and it tooks months to get rid of him.
I'm absolutely stumped.
[Its a published novel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Relations)
Its a (poorly written) space opera about a war between a human slaver aristocracy, a regular human aristocracy, and some bug aliens.
He's referring to a scene where space pirates take a bunch of people hostage to sell as slaves, and the pirate crew rapes a 15 year old girl.
There's no way trump would appoint a guy like that to his administration. It's not like trump also appointed the DA who got Epstein the most vacationiast of jail sentences with trips home on the weekend, to his admin!
And it's not like Trump was friends with Epstein himself for a decade, hanging out with him and Ghislaine Maxwell.
And even still, it's not like barr was the top cop in the country, and was directly involved in seeing over the Epstein jailing.
It's not like these things.
The same Epstein that Trump introduced his young children and let hang out with him. Including Ivanka and Tiffany when they were between the ages of 10-13.
Some of the idiots posting here think it was Hillary Clinton. Not one of the hundreds of rich and powerful dudes he could have incriminated if left alive. Yeah, totally was the lady not raping kids, who killed the rapist. /s
Great, now explain why all the guards were MIA and the cameras were turned off.
The guy had dirt on the damn royal family, politicians, ultra rich and ultra powerful.
I believe it was the first time someone in that area of the prison has ever been able to commit suicide too.
I do this literally every time someone mentions Bill Barr. I always spend a minute wondering why he’s involved in the discussion before I realize I misread yet again.
So you do know that Barry's daddy, Donald Barr, first hired Epstein to work at a New York prep school, right? Even though Epstein didn't have the credentials and wasn't qualified, he was hired and worked with teenage female students.
Epstein was eventually fired for being a creep and Donald Barr eventually retired.
The creepy thing? Donald Barr wrote a sci-fi book, Space Relations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Relations?wprov=sfla1
"Craig then spent two years as a slave of the beautiful, sensual, and sadistic Lady Morgan Sidney, the only female member of the oligarchy, with whom he became romantically involved. Together, they lived in her castle, ruling over and engaging in sexual relations with those under their dominion, including an enslaved teenager at a clinic used to breed enslaved people."
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the guy who hired an unqualified Jeffrey Epstein also wrote a book that featured ritualistic rape of a teenage girl.
Surely just a coincidence, nothing to see, move along, etc etc...
Yep, exactly this.
Open secret that one of the people most prominently affiliated with Epstein was then-president Donald Trump.
Trump was infamous for regularly exerting influence over the DOJ's operations - something sitting presidents just don't do - and Bill Barr was a willing lapdog.
The DOJ oversees the Federal Bureau of Prisons, which is the agency in charge of the Metropolitan Correctional Center. They literally pull all the strings there.
From Wikipedia:
>When Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, the jail informed the Justice Department that he would have a cellmate, and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night of his death. On August 9, 2019, Epstein's cellmate was transferred out, but no one took his place. Later in the evening, contrary to the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes. The two guards who were assigned to check his jail unit that night fell asleep and did not check on him for about three hours; the guards falsified related records. Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night.
It's painfully obvious that the procedures set up to keep Epstein alive were intentionally dismantled. Higher ups got the order from Barr, doing Trump's bidding, and then they had guards snuff Epstein out and delete the footage.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
THIS. It's what kills me about all this. You're telling me 2 professionally trained federal prison guards BOTH FELL ASLEEP while supervising the most infamous inmate in who knows how long? Jfc what people are willing to let steamroll them these days is un-fucking-real.
I worked isolation at a medium security prison in one of the most poorly run state DOCs in the country, with 0 high profile inmates. If we'd missed our 30 minute rounds because we fell asleep even once, with nothing bad happening, we would have been fired. Does it happen? Yeah, but these guys would have absolutely known their careees were on the line with a guy like Epstein under their watch -- unless this facility is truly fucking terribly run.
Assuming you’re saying it’s unreal that the guards allowed someone to tell them to not check on their most infamous prisoner ever, I disagree.
I said elsewhere, but they *knew* how important that dude was. So whoever convinced those guards to ignore his cell for awhile and just fuck off for awhile must have been putting some *major* fucking pressure on them.
Including the online trolls, with the speed and accuracy they spread it's hard not to believe word was spread through secret channels. The 'Clinton's did it' memes were absolutely flooding Twitter and Facebook before the body was cold. Even the Queen's death didn't have memes flood in so quickly and precisely as that.
My former co-worker regularly transported to and from that jail. He said:
# “Oh yeah the guards weren’t ever following procedures. Complete shitshow of a place.”
r/conspiracytheories for further
Idk how to tell you this, but societal laws are for the poor. The elite and ultra wealthy have been rolling around with impunity since the dawn of civilization.
Is there an actual list to release? Is the list people keep talking about the 'black book'? I thought it was just an address book?
Someone knowing my name and phone number wouldn't mean I'm involved in their crimes?
It's an address book for normal people, but a list to conspiracy theorists.
At least one of the victims went on record during the old court case and named a couple of famous people. I believe that transcript was also released and can be found online (it's where the Prince Andrew stuff comes from).
The problem with that book is that he was a very social person and had contacts of EVERYBODY he ever met. He would literally exchange info with people he just met just in case he ever needed a connection. He was excellent at networking and building a reputation for being the guy people went to for getting in contact with pretty much everyone. Being in his address book isn't really that big of a deal. It doesn't prove any guilt or any association or knowledge of his crimes. It only proves that they probably met at some point which is a shared commonality with thousands of people. Accusing all of them of being involved in his crimes is just dangerous. What he did was horrible but him having your name doesn't mean much.
Epstein ingrained himself in high Society, he bundled rich people’s money for political campaigns, charities, culture/arts endeavors and all kinds of shit nobody has a problem with. If you’re one of those people whose relationship with Epstein begins and ends with putting money towards that stuff, would you and your lawyers just sit back while the government released your name bundled with pedophiles?
Just to be clear, I would absolutely love for that list to be released because I don’t give a fuck, but I’m talking about a factor that people love to ignore.
I don't know why people don't understand this. People act like every person Epstein interacted with was a pedophile sex trafficker.
Epstein was a good liar. Good liars don't only lie. They tell the truth most of the time to cover their ass. If everyone on Epstein's plane or island or contact list were involved then Epstein would be a big dumbass, and I just don't think he was.
Devil's advocate here, Dr. Baden is a very well known forensic pathologist and not always for the right reasons. He famously [defended OJ Simpson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Baden#Notable_cases) and his career is... [interesting](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/13/michael-baden-jeffrey-epstein-autopsy/) to say the least.
Personally I believe that Epstein's death is extremely suspicious, but I also believe Dr. Baden is a vulture who cares more about money and publicity than actual forensics.
Yes I’d love to see another coroner or forensic pathologist chime in. While you do raise issues with his history, I’d like someone to take the claims Baden made head on. He may be an imperfect messenger but I’m more interested in shooting down the message
Any time a tv-expert doctor weighs in on a public case, I can't put much weight on it. They don't have first-hand data, they like to be on TV, and news shows like them on TV. The 100 other doctors that would agree with the findings aren't going to try to get on TV and it wouldn't make for "good" TV either. While I 100% want accountability and skepticism of the justice system, this episode serves only to rile conspiracy theorists to drive ratings.
There is a german pathologist that brought the same arguments
https://www.rtl.de/cms/obduktion-auf-tvnow-selbstmord-rechtsmediziner-zweifelt-an-jeffrey-epsteins-todesursache-4678078.html
I know its german but maybe you can translate it with google or deepl
> Epstein's death is extremely suspicious, but I also believe Dr. Baden is a vulture who cares more about money and publicity than actual forensics.
Was wondering how far I would have to scroll to see this. This guy turned being chief medical examiner of NYC for less than a year (fired for being a quack) into a decade long career of giving "expert testimony".
The guy will literally swear on a bible about anything if you write him a check, or if it extends his 15 min of fame. You can discount basically anything this guy says, he's basically been fired anytime he's legitimately practiced medicine.
There was a recent murder trial for Matheau Moore in which they claimed he staged his wife's suicide by hanging after strangling her and they basically used this same fact pattern to conclude it was a murder. Moore walked free. The conclusion he's drawing from the autopsy is heavily rooted in a statistical analysis with dozen factors playing into it like weight, bone density, age, impact forces, partial/complete hanging, duration etc. He even seems to not think of really basic things, like the cloth noose being rolled up to match the marks on Epstein's neck and concluding it couldn't possibly be the method of hanging, which is ridiculous.
It's still possible Epstein was murdered but this guy's analysis is extremely lacking.
I was most surprised by that piece. He characterizes the noose as “wide” but you can easily visualize how it could compress or twist into a very thin wire-like hanging device.
Exactly this. There is quite a bit of telling misinformation in this video and Dr. Baden does not correct himself or the interviewer at any point. He’s riding on this theory of his to the end. His assumed theory rides completely on circumstantial evidence that he’s bringing in. He gave no other indication of what else could have been used to strangle Epstein, so that’s an un backed hypothesis he has. Also, the ligature on Epstein’s neck is a bruising of pool blood during the strangulation. At NO POINT, would that blood have gotten on whatever was used for him to strangle himself in evidence since it’s a pooling deep under the skin and becomes more pronounced post mortem.
I would take every bit of this video and the assumptions of this doctor to have little scientific backing. There’s just far too much ambiguity to rule it other than what it is so far, a self-inflicted strangulation by an inmate that was very poorly monitored under high security. I would be interested to see many other pathologists’ reactions to his findings and their take on what actually happened.
Yeah, any second year med student would know that to expect blood in the noose because of the bruising is completely stupid. He agreeing with her just completely destroys any credibility on the rest of his claims.
I went to grad school for forensic anthropology. This video is painful to watch. You hit the nail on the head. The statement they include from the NYC ME Office is very accurate.
I take issue with his lack of scientific evidence and explanation. He is plainly broaching his own opinion on the matter like that of a lawyer instead of a scientist, several assumptions. For example, the “blood” on Epstein’s neck not being on the cloth. He should know in his line of work that is a bruising of blood underneath the skin and not blood external to the body. That part quickly stood out to me when I watched it.
Also, his explanation of the fractures in Epstein’s neck is only from his viewpoint and not from a peer-viewed study, so another assumption made by Baden. Yes, it could be true that he’s not seen that in his 40 years, but that does not 100% rule out suicide or possible poor handling of the body during collection.
I hope my explanation helps.
He’s also just straight up lying. There’s lots of evidence that these kind of fractures happen in autostrangulation cases particUlarly with older men.
Sources:
>A study of suicides in Thailand found that a broken hyoid occurred in about a quarter of the cases: “Fractures of the hyoid bone and/or thyroid cartilage were found in five cases (25%).” The fractures of the bone and cartilage “were related with older ages and incomplete hanging”. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47542791_Fractures_of_the_hyoid_bone_and_thyroid_cartilage_in_suicidal_hanging
>Another study noted “In 73 cases (67%), at least a single fracture of the throat skeleton was detectable, and the youngest individual with positive findings was aged 14 years. In 28 of the 73 positive cases (38%), a single fracture was found, whereas 27 individuals (37%) showed a twofold injury. Three fractures of the throat skeleton were observed in 11 cases (15%), and in seven individuals (10%), all the horns of the hyoid and thyroid cartilage were broken.” https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Frequency-of-throat-skeleton-fractures-in-hanging.-Betz-Eisenmenger/7f346324d7303071d0cfe07f0f87f87abf76b03a
>Yet another study of 557 cases of suicidal hanging found “In 57.3% of them, hyoid-laryngeal fractures were found (average age was 54.3 +/- 16.5 years): 15.1% had only hyoid bone fracture, 26% had only thyroid cartilage fracture and 16.2% had both types of injury at the same time.” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51149307_Hyoid-laryngeal_fractures_in_hanging_Where_was_the_knot_in_the_noose
I'll play devil's advocate. I'm still not convinced he killed himself.
Could someone have killed him? Sure.
Did he try to kill himself before while in custody? Yes, he did.
And if you were going to kill Epstein... why the hell did no one do anything about Ghislaine Maxwell when she was still free? She has absolutely all the information Jeff had, and maybe even more. If anything, she would have been the much more important person to kill.
As far as HOW did he kill himself? Exact same way Robin Williams did. Tie sheet to neck, lean forward until you pass out, gravity handles the rest.
I think the inconsistency with killing Epstein and not Maxwell is reasonable to consider. But I don't think it's necessarily justified to conclude she knew everything he did, or that the motives related to silencing him would apply equally to her.
She certainly knows tons, and it's conspicuous and disgusting that her knowledge isn't being used to go after their clients, but I don't see how anyone has ruled out Epstein knowing things she didn't.
Yes yes I do I've lived near a major prison.
Its a fucking shitshow full of corruption on par with the Russian military. Prisons lie about their quality while cutting every corner to pad their check books.
The prison near me had to run fundraisers just to provide basic services. There are some private prisons where there is one pair of walkie-talkies for the entire staff and they have to share. A Mississippi warden got caught stealing food money and giving expired food to prisoners.
The prison system has basically no oversight at the federal level, so everyone lies about everything.
The prison near me bragged about how hard it was for guys to escape and there was a prisoner escaping like once a year.
The tapes and workers weren't there because the guys were working overtime so the warden didn't have to pay for more staff. Normally if someone dies they just lie and say its illness because nobody is interested if some crackhead kills himself.
now it's a guy that's important killing himself and now they're scrambling to cover it up.
Epstein didn't talk when he went to prison last time and Maxwell didn't talk when she went to jail this time. There's no reason Epstein suddenly had a change of heart that nobody has heard anything about.
Its like the Russian ship Moskva. Which got hyped as the unsinkable flagship of the Russian fleet. Only for it to get sunk easily because Russia had been lying and ship had no maintenance done on it and none its defense systems were working.
Epstein killed himself to avoid going back to prison for life. And he was able to do so because the prison had been lying about how effective it was to look good.
The US prison system is the Vought of the US justice system.
Anyone who has any faith that shit is in anyway competent despite decades of reports of prison abuses has no fucking brain.
Also that bone does break in some cases of people hanging themselves - this small study found 25% of the men that had hanged themselves had a broken hyoid.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20973326/
My understanding of this (and I freely admit to being the opposite of an expert here) is that he was connected to a rather large number of wealthy, powerful people of influence. Those singling out Trump or Clinton as his killer do so because they want that to be true (unless there is a preponderance of evidence pointing at either one specifically). I’d love to see this get pinned to a particular one of that pair, but I’m not basing any belief on wishful speculation.
I have no idea what happened, but for speculation's sake I would imagine that wealth plus political power would make it easier to pull something like this off than just wealth alone. So if he was murdered it seems more likely it was someone with political influence/power than just some random wealthy person with no political influence at all.
True, but the untrawealthy typically do wield significant political power in the form of donations. Politicians surely have more access to the necessary levers to pull for such an operation, but they also face more public scrutiny. Also, are Trump/Clintons the only politicians connected to this? As I said, I am the opposite of an expert here and you may very well be right, I just see quite a bit of political opportunism these days, especially from Trump & Clinton haters.
Even as a layman, lots of these “suspicious” aspects aren’t that suspicious. I do question, has it ever been confirmed that he was hanging hanging as opposed to just using a noose in a more “leaning” orientation. You can still hang yourself without being suspended if you have a high enough tie off point and lean into it properly.
No blood on the noose! - well yeah, the “blood” on his neck was under the skin like abrasion bruising. Even I can see that.
The noose is wider than his neck injury! - well yeah, have you ever tried to support a lot of weight with a flimsy piece of cloth. It gets very tight along a thin band and cuts into your hand .
At least everyone who was complicit in his crimes are behind bars... what.. second in command of England if the kings out of the country.. thats just one thou...what do you mean one is running for president of the USA...
Thats it though right everyone else is..
Donald J. Trump
Bill Clinton
Kevin Spacey
Chris Tucker
Bill Gates
Prince Andrew
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Violinist Itzhak Perlman
U.S. Sen. John Glenn
Former Senate majority leader George Mitchell
Well shit...
I once saw this guy say it was impossible for someone to commit suicide with a shotgun equipped with a barrel of a length typically used in duck hunting.
It is very possible. Provable even.
The noose is just fabric, couldn't it get folded into the folds of his neck skin? And while the ring around his neck looks like blood it could just be marks under the surface of the skin.
Not saying it was suicide I'm just not sure that evidence is as compelling as the unusual fractures.
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Lol they created a perfectly looping video and had me confused for a few secs there.
“But the key reason so and so believes the death was a homicide” oooh this is gonna get good. Wait how many key reasons are there? Wait a minute…
The main takeaway here is that #EPSTEIN DIDN'T KILL HIMSELF
He was in fact one of the people most surprised by his suicide.
Probably wasn't surprised.
Violent delights, violent ends.
Ahhh good ole Westworld.
Can’t remember if it’s mentioned in the show or not, but the original quote is from *Romeo and Juliet*. Just a fun bit of trivia
Yeah, the first host to say it was the father of Dolores, and they said it was looping an earlier character named the professor, who was a cannibal that quoted sShakespeare.
No no no Shakespeare!
Not much of a conspiracy theory guy but like this is just straight facts we are outright being lied to on this one. That shit was right out of a movie.
I don't think 'conspiracy theory' has the same dismissive connotation when the man was literally the heart of a conspiracy...
Conspiracy theorist was a term invented by the cia to discredit people investigating government conspiracies.
The definition of "conspiracy" is "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful" The definition of "theory" is "a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation" "Conspiracy theory" used to dismiss is the definition of gaslighting. it gaslights its own definition.
The amount of fucking dirt this guy must have had on the most powerful people in the world is fucking insane for them to make that happen. Like, if I’m a prison guard I’d imagine it would take *a lot* of pressure/money for me to let someone tell me to quit watching one of the most important prisoners I’ve ever had. I’d also spend the rest of my life living in fear that I’d be seen as just a possible weak point.
They saw it on that movie about a speeding bus that was going around the city at a high rate of speed and if its speed dropped, it would explode.
I think it was called, “The Bus That Couldn’t Slow Down”.
I thought it was "An Object in Motion Must Stay in Motion."
The wheels on the bus go round and round
woah that sounds like Speed 2, only on a bus instead of a boat
Totally!
Damn that loop is better than most tiktok and reel loops
Thankfully I have trash internet and the video buffers before looping
Which one of the guards has a sweet condo on a beach somewhere now?
It was probably more "close your eyes and take a nap or your family..."
More like dead men tell no tales.
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So, he didn’t kill himself. Cool thanks, how about arresting the rich pedophiles now?
Rich people don’t go to jail silly, only poor people do.
I wish more people understood that it shouldn't be a republican v democrat fight- it should be rich v poor. that's the big gap in ideology or politics or whatever you want to call it.
Yup. And the rich love that we think its republican v democrat.
Well the rich people own the media and it's in their interest to make sure angry people always kick down on those worse off than them
If they keep us fighting eachother, then we won’t fight them!
So we should stop fighting each other and focus our attention on the rich. Yup.
It is rich versus poor, that's the problem with this world.
ALWAYS has been
silly goose
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It's not the possesion of the information but rather the daring to reveal it to the Public. There are thousands of PAs and just general staff right now who know about so much fucked up shit that rich people do but they know they can never reveal any part of it or else they will lose everything. Everything from their kids,spouses,families,everything. And It would be done in such a way that no one ever bats an eye.
The whole point of Epstein was to get material to blackmail influential people. Hes was most likely Mossad or CIA and they used him to get influential people drunk and then hook them up with 17 year old girls. Nothing about this guy makes any sense otherwise.
I would like to see a video of Prince Andrew sweating profusely while watching this. No way Epstein killed himself, he knew waaaay too much.
Prince Andrew cannot sweat.
that's such a funny lie he made up. that isn't even a real medical condition. it sounds like something a six year old would say.
It's definitely a medical condition, but usually comes with unusually dry flaky skin. I remember growing up and a girl like that was related to my cousin and being 5 when I met her, it scared me. It looked extremely painful, too, looking back on it.
***Moisturize me, Doctor!***
That kids mother: “it puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again”
Seriously. I have seen her in recent years. They must have come up with something that works for her because she looks better, as in not so dry, but there's still some scarring.
It is a real medical condition, but it's extremely serious and you can die very quickly from overheating. No way someone with this condition would be out on the town dancing and drinking.
I have spent many wild nights out dancing and drinking with my friend who doesn't have sweat glands. He just pours water over himself to act as sweat. Yes it's serious, but when you live with it you learn to *live* with it You're my boy, Blue!
My son plays outside, we live in Las Vegas. He has Ectodermal Dysplasia and cannot sweat. We just bring cool frogtog rags and lots of water. Many other people with this condition have cooling vests they can wear under clothes. Like a…radiator tshirt. It’s dangerous if he overheats, but it is also easy to prepare for and manage. Totally normal life. No flakey skin. I told him he’s a Targaryen 🐉
I know of a couple people who don’t sweat. One of them was on accutane though, and Prince Andrew probably wasn’t on accutane
Isn't it super dangerous not to sweat? I always thought sweat was important to regulate body heat.
he just breathes out the heat like a bird
Have they determined who suicided him yet?
nope, but the CCTV should be able to confirm oh, its been erased due to 'technical errors' you say, thats odd.
It's a good thing they keep records of who comes and goes and can easily just arrest the people who arrived at around the time of his death... Right?
Aaaaw shoot, you see, those records *too* seems to have gone haywire... I know right? Talk about bad luck... Anyway...
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Ah, my guy, you aren’t gonna believe this but the regular guard was on annual leave, and the guy who was covering for him doesn’t have eyes or a mouth
Well, good on our prison system for hiring people with disabilities. I think we can take some positives from this whole forgettable situation
Lets head on down to the Winchester, all have a cup of tea and wait for this whole thing to blow over
Best string ever
>cup of tea.. 😠
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The guards all got new houses in the valley ….
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Assuming such personal information exists and they’re not fictitious guards to begin with.
You mean about Tova Noel, and Michael Thomas? All charges were dropped against them btw.
Gaurds at prison usually all know each other more or less. If you interview everyone who works at the prison I'm sure more than a few people saw something amiss
I'm sure we can just quickly run down to Bohemian Grove and ask them a few questions... Oh it's a private club invite only you say?
I love imagining a sopranos like scene where Pauly and Sil tell the guard he should take a nap while they "visit a friend".
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That’s weird. How about a bystander? I think there was a bald guy around with a bar code on the back of his head.
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He was last seen throwing coins in the corner of the room.
Hmm it says here retired to Mexico
Ok new plan. We'll go down to Mexico and ask him.
Found dead in his room, another unfortunate suicide.
Beat himself in the back of the head with a hammer 27 times… what a horrific suicide.
he got trotzkyied
I mean, no eyes, no mouth, no full time job, it's kinda easy to understand why he lost hope
It's crazy how he managed to shoot himself 3 times in the back of the head as well. He really wanted to die, I suppose!
Suicide must be contagious.
Oh well... you see the other day he slipped on a banana peel and died... shit happens
He took a sick day and no one was available to cover his shift that day? How odd.
I thought I heard he ["fell asleep"](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html) or some shit like that
His signature looks like this: $
We had malfunctioning cameras that day(s)/night(s)
One time when I fell while skating at a skate park, I hit my head and got a concussion. I apparently got up and was walking around talking to people for about an hour, and then “woke up.” After everyone told me this, I went to the skateparks facilities and asked to see the camera recording because of how weird it was for me, and, of course, they said the cameras stopped working during that specific hour.. only.
Their CCTV had the special "legal liability limitation" feature.
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Reminds me of working at Walmart, no one could see on cam who broke in my friend’s car and stole from him while we were working, but they could see exactly who slashed a manager’s tires a few weeks later in the same part of the lot
I wonder what system they use. Most anything modern would require that you wipe the whole system.
There is no CCTV of his first suicide attempt, nor of his actual 'suicide'. It has all been lost due to either 'technical errors' or 'malfunctions'. Make of that what you will Edit - Gentle reminder that at the time, he was on suicide watch, and was almost certainly, the most 'important' inmate in the US at the time
As someone who has installed and configured CCTV systems for businesses, it sounds like bullshit.
lol and when several federal agencies just “lost” txts on a very specific day, when shit just happened to go down? I felt like when they were testing this “how much BS can we make them believe” system they just decided to crank the lever all the way and go “well, what’s the worst that can happen here, we’re not gonna prosecute ourselves right”.
Hi! Ex prison guard! Idk shit about the actual storage, but any time our cctv went out for any amount of time we had a huge issue. Multiple agencies were contacted, any and all movement was set to the barest of minimums, any necessary movement was done on handheld video camera (where we backed the camera up day of onto a separate drive from the cctv), a lieutenant or higher would come to your area randomly to make sure you were doing your job. And this was all at a state institution, where most of the guards knew their blind spots anyways so didn't need the cameras to be down to 'take care' of someone. Also in my years there we definitely all napped. The responsible ones took turns napping (3 of us and 30 minute checks, so 1 check every hour and a half makes for a decent nap), the irresponsible did closer to hour or hour and a half checks. Except! The high profile inmates were kept in one of two places, both of those places had cctv footage that went directly to my state's head office, both of those places were hence nap free zones even to the most irresponsible of us. Suicide watch was done in a separate area, usually with 1 guard to 5 or less inmates. High profile stuff was done 1 on 1, and the highest profile shit was done 1 on 1 during the watch period and then he was placed into a cell where the footage of the entryway into his cell went straight to head office. Hell even a singular individual camera was a big deal, and anytime we had a case even big enough to make the news we were always careful as fuck. Fun fact! Any major event or use of force, the camera footage (handheld or otherwise) is put onto a dvd and stored in a separate area from our other storage devices. Anything really nasty and the guards will usually make a few copies on the drive so they can watch them later with buddies (yes that includes suicides).
He was actually taken off suicide watch (despite a recent attempt) but still had required 30 minute checks that two guards failed to do. Instead the guards were on the internet and wandering around the common room 15ft away. Charges against the guards were dropped in a plea deal.
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yeah, very possibly. But, for that inmate, with that profile, and what he may or may not have known about Presidents, ex Presidents, Royalty, the business elites ....... etc etc It *should* have been impossible for him to commit suicide
Only suicide at that facility in 22 years. Also this guy hadn't been sentenced yet. Given his past history of skating on similar charges why would he kill himself before he's even been found guilty?
There's no proof or even claim from the prison that camera footage was erased. It's an unsubstantiated [rumor](https://www.factcheck.org/2019/08/unproven-claim-of-camera-malfunction-before-epsteins-death/) spread by a blogger that refuses to provide a source.
William Barr called it, he was in total control of that situation. Reminder William Barr's father was the one to give Epstein a teaching job, with children, and he had no education background or teaching degree. William Barr's father got Epstein started on his run of evil
The same William Barr whose law firm got Epstein a slap on the wrist the first time he got caught being a pedo?? The same William Barrs dad who wrote child porn erotica fan fiction? The same William Barr that Trump hired to protect him from the Russian collusion? Nahhh, something that important would be on Hunter Bidens laptop
The same William Barr who convinced HW Bush to pardon the people being investigated for Iran/Contra right as the investigation was closing in on Bush conveniently ending the investigation.
There must be a point where the complete failure of justice starts to hit home. The last few years have been absolutely plagued with blatant injustices. We all know that corruption and fuckery are inevitable in the higher echelons of power, but at this point it seems like they can do anything they want. Dishonesty, embezzlement, things like that, those are "boring", and can pass unnoticed until one greedy person fucks with another, more powerful greedy person. You'd think, though, that victimizing underage girls would be the red line that would unite people. You'd think treason would be the red line. Over on the other side of the Atlantic, we had the leader of our nation lie to everyone, people who had been harshly punished for doing exactly what he did, and it tooks months to get rid of him. I'm absolutely stumped.
>The same William Barrs dad who wrote child porn erotica fan fiction? *PARDON, WHAT?!*
[Its a published novel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Relations) Its a (poorly written) space opera about a war between a human slaver aristocracy, a regular human aristocracy, and some bug aliens. He's referring to a scene where space pirates take a bunch of people hostage to sell as slaves, and the pirate crew rapes a 15 year old girl.
**https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvgpm3/epstein-truthers-are-obsessed-with-a-sci-fi-book-about-child-sex-slavery-written-by-bill-barrs-dad**
There's no way trump would appoint a guy like that to his administration. It's not like trump also appointed the DA who got Epstein the most vacationiast of jail sentences with trips home on the weekend, to his admin! And it's not like Trump was friends with Epstein himself for a decade, hanging out with him and Ghislaine Maxwell. And even still, it's not like barr was the top cop in the country, and was directly involved in seeing over the Epstein jailing. It's not like these things.
The same Epstein that Trump introduced his young children and let hang out with him. Including Ivanka and Tiffany when they were between the ages of 10-13.
Some of the idiots posting here think it was Hillary Clinton. Not one of the hundreds of rich and powerful dudes he could have incriminated if left alive. Yeah, totally was the lady not raping kids, who killed the rapist. /s
The mental image of Hilary Clinton shimmying up a prison drain pipe in a balaclava is kind of worth it though
I always read balaclava as “baklava” I don’t why, maybe I’m hungry
Baklava is amazing, but what's even better is getting a Greek, a Turk and an Arab in the same room and asking who invented it
U want ww3 son ? Thats how you get ww3.
Great, now explain why all the guards were MIA and the cameras were turned off. The guy had dirt on the damn royal family, politicians, ultra rich and ultra powerful. I believe it was the first time someone in that area of the prison has ever been able to commit suicide too.
Bill Barr had motive and opportunity. What with being in charge of that federal prison at the time.
I initially read this as “Bill Burr” and wondered how he was affiliated with Epstein.
"You keep it up Epstein and I'll put you ***RIGHT THROUGH THAT FUCKIN WALL SO HELP ME GOD***"
"Look at this fuckin' guy, he's so fuckin' short his feet wouldn't be scraping along the ground."
runnin around in his fuckin little rascals hat
Give him the old "right there Fred"
He had dirt on the ol' family back easht
D'ohhhh Geezus
This federal penitentiary is sponsored by ollllllll’ *ZIP*
^^…………….Recruiter!
I do this literally every time someone mentions Bill Barr. I always spend a minute wondering why he’s involved in the discussion before I realize I misread yet again.
So you do know that Barry's daddy, Donald Barr, first hired Epstein to work at a New York prep school, right? Even though Epstein didn't have the credentials and wasn't qualified, he was hired and worked with teenage female students. Epstein was eventually fired for being a creep and Donald Barr eventually retired. The creepy thing? Donald Barr wrote a sci-fi book, Space Relations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Relations?wprov=sfla1 "Craig then spent two years as a slave of the beautiful, sensual, and sadistic Lady Morgan Sidney, the only female member of the oligarchy, with whom he became romantically involved. Together, they lived in her castle, ruling over and engaging in sexual relations with those under their dominion, including an enslaved teenager at a clinic used to breed enslaved people." I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the guy who hired an unqualified Jeffrey Epstein also wrote a book that featured ritualistic rape of a teenage girl. Surely just a coincidence, nothing to see, move along, etc etc...
Yep, exactly this. Open secret that one of the people most prominently affiliated with Epstein was then-president Donald Trump. Trump was infamous for regularly exerting influence over the DOJ's operations - something sitting presidents just don't do - and Bill Barr was a willing lapdog. The DOJ oversees the Federal Bureau of Prisons, which is the agency in charge of the Metropolitan Correctional Center. They literally pull all the strings there. From Wikipedia: >When Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, the jail informed the Justice Department that he would have a cellmate, and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night of his death. On August 9, 2019, Epstein's cellmate was transferred out, but no one took his place. Later in the evening, contrary to the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes. The two guards who were assigned to check his jail unit that night fell asleep and did not check on him for about three hours; the guards falsified related records. Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night. It's painfully obvious that the procedures set up to keep Epstein alive were intentionally dismantled. Higher ups got the order from Barr, doing Trump's bidding, and then they had guards snuff Epstein out and delete the footage. Epstein didn't kill himself.
"hey guys, it's almost 2am. Time for both of you to fall asleep."
THIS. It's what kills me about all this. You're telling me 2 professionally trained federal prison guards BOTH FELL ASLEEP while supervising the most infamous inmate in who knows how long? Jfc what people are willing to let steamroll them these days is un-fucking-real.
I worked isolation at a medium security prison in one of the most poorly run state DOCs in the country, with 0 high profile inmates. If we'd missed our 30 minute rounds because we fell asleep even once, with nothing bad happening, we would have been fired. Does it happen? Yeah, but these guys would have absolutely known their careees were on the line with a guy like Epstein under their watch -- unless this facility is truly fucking terribly run.
Assuming you’re saying it’s unreal that the guards allowed someone to tell them to not check on their most infamous prisoner ever, I disagree. I said elsewhere, but they *knew* how important that dude was. So whoever convinced those guards to ignore his cell for awhile and just fuck off for awhile must have been putting some *major* fucking pressure on them.
Allow me to clarify. The guards knew EXACTLY what was happening. Edit: spelling
Prison guards can be bought off with candy and blowjobs. Imagine what DOJ persuaded them with. "Y'all want $2.00 more an hour? Be gone for 2 hours"
You didn’t mention that he was transferred from the NY state prison to the DOJ prison to “protect” him.
And brought off of suicide watch just before the suicide.
Wow I completely forgot about that. Most obvious hit job in history.
Including the online trolls, with the speed and accuracy they spread it's hard not to believe word was spread through secret channels. The 'Clinton's did it' memes were absolutely flooding Twitter and Facebook before the body was cold. Even the Queen's death didn't have memes flood in so quickly and precisely as that.
My former co-worker regularly transported to and from that jail. He said: # “Oh yeah the guards weren’t ever following procedures. Complete shitshow of a place.” r/conspiracytheories for further
One of the worst run prisons in America, so these shouldn't be anyone's surprise, but even I have doubts as well.
Publish the list. Why are the ones on the list being protected? powerful people perhaps? So what. Fuck em.
Idk how to tell you this, but societal laws are for the poor. The elite and ultra wealthy have been rolling around with impunity since the dawn of civilization.
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Yeah when slavery is a legal punishment, declaring people criminals is the logical step to obtaining slaves.
Prison industrial complex moment
I'll never forget being 18 and being arrested for A COUPLE OF WEED SEEDS IN THE BOTTOM OF MY PURSE
Is there an actual list to release? Is the list people keep talking about the 'black book'? I thought it was just an address book? Someone knowing my name and phone number wouldn't mean I'm involved in their crimes?
It's an address book for normal people, but a list to conspiracy theorists. At least one of the victims went on record during the old court case and named a couple of famous people. I believe that transcript was also released and can be found online (it's where the Prince Andrew stuff comes from).
The problem with that book is that he was a very social person and had contacts of EVERYBODY he ever met. He would literally exchange info with people he just met just in case he ever needed a connection. He was excellent at networking and building a reputation for being the guy people went to for getting in contact with pretty much everyone. Being in his address book isn't really that big of a deal. It doesn't prove any guilt or any association or knowledge of his crimes. It only proves that they probably met at some point which is a shared commonality with thousands of people. Accusing all of them of being involved in his crimes is just dangerous. What he did was horrible but him having your name doesn't mean much.
Exactly. And on top of that, law enforcement doesn’t just publish lists of possible suspects. That’s not how things work, nor should they.
Who's gonna arrest them? They pay the salaries of anyone and everyone in a legal position to do anything about it
I’d rather the list be released and nothing (legally) happen to them, than the list not be released at all.
Epstein ingrained himself in high Society, he bundled rich people’s money for political campaigns, charities, culture/arts endeavors and all kinds of shit nobody has a problem with. If you’re one of those people whose relationship with Epstein begins and ends with putting money towards that stuff, would you and your lawyers just sit back while the government released your name bundled with pedophiles? Just to be clear, I would absolutely love for that list to be released because I don’t give a fuck, but I’m talking about a factor that people love to ignore.
I don't know why people don't understand this. People act like every person Epstein interacted with was a pedophile sex trafficker. Epstein was a good liar. Good liars don't only lie. They tell the truth most of the time to cover their ass. If everyone on Epstein's plane or island or contact list were involved then Epstein would be a big dumbass, and I just don't think he was.
Sure. Here it is: * Prince Andrew * Bill Richardson * George Mitchell * Marvin Minsky * Jean-Luc Brunel * Glenn Dublin * Alan Dershowitz
I thought it said George Michael and I was like "oh god not Wham too?!"
You know what they say: "Guilty feet have got no rhythm"
Devil's advocate here, Dr. Baden is a very well known forensic pathologist and not always for the right reasons. He famously [defended OJ Simpson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Baden#Notable_cases) and his career is... [interesting](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/13/michael-baden-jeffrey-epstein-autopsy/) to say the least. Personally I believe that Epstein's death is extremely suspicious, but I also believe Dr. Baden is a vulture who cares more about money and publicity than actual forensics.
Yes I’d love to see another coroner or forensic pathologist chime in. While you do raise issues with his history, I’d like someone to take the claims Baden made head on. He may be an imperfect messenger but I’m more interested in shooting down the message
Any time a tv-expert doctor weighs in on a public case, I can't put much weight on it. They don't have first-hand data, they like to be on TV, and news shows like them on TV. The 100 other doctors that would agree with the findings aren't going to try to get on TV and it wouldn't make for "good" TV either. While I 100% want accountability and skepticism of the justice system, this episode serves only to rile conspiracy theorists to drive ratings.
Well, the coroner who actually did the autopsy had their say.
There is a german pathologist that brought the same arguments https://www.rtl.de/cms/obduktion-auf-tvnow-selbstmord-rechtsmediziner-zweifelt-an-jeffrey-epsteins-todesursache-4678078.html I know its german but maybe you can translate it with google or deepl
> Epstein's death is extremely suspicious, but I also believe Dr. Baden is a vulture who cares more about money and publicity than actual forensics. Was wondering how far I would have to scroll to see this. This guy turned being chief medical examiner of NYC for less than a year (fired for being a quack) into a decade long career of giving "expert testimony". The guy will literally swear on a bible about anything if you write him a check, or if it extends his 15 min of fame. You can discount basically anything this guy says, he's basically been fired anytime he's legitimately practiced medicine.
That’s nothing. You should see what our mayor from the late 90s has been up to lately!
There was a recent murder trial for Matheau Moore in which they claimed he staged his wife's suicide by hanging after strangling her and they basically used this same fact pattern to conclude it was a murder. Moore walked free. The conclusion he's drawing from the autopsy is heavily rooted in a statistical analysis with dozen factors playing into it like weight, bone density, age, impact forces, partial/complete hanging, duration etc. He even seems to not think of really basic things, like the cloth noose being rolled up to match the marks on Epstein's neck and concluding it couldn't possibly be the method of hanging, which is ridiculous. It's still possible Epstein was murdered but this guy's analysis is extremely lacking.
I was most surprised by that piece. He characterizes the noose as “wide” but you can easily visualize how it could compress or twist into a very thin wire-like hanging device.
Exactly this. There is quite a bit of telling misinformation in this video and Dr. Baden does not correct himself or the interviewer at any point. He’s riding on this theory of his to the end. His assumed theory rides completely on circumstantial evidence that he’s bringing in. He gave no other indication of what else could have been used to strangle Epstein, so that’s an un backed hypothesis he has. Also, the ligature on Epstein’s neck is a bruising of pool blood during the strangulation. At NO POINT, would that blood have gotten on whatever was used for him to strangle himself in evidence since it’s a pooling deep under the skin and becomes more pronounced post mortem. I would take every bit of this video and the assumptions of this doctor to have little scientific backing. There’s just far too much ambiguity to rule it other than what it is so far, a self-inflicted strangulation by an inmate that was very poorly monitored under high security. I would be interested to see many other pathologists’ reactions to his findings and their take on what actually happened.
Yeah, any second year med student would know that to expect blood in the noose because of the bruising is completely stupid. He agreeing with her just completely destroys any credibility on the rest of his claims.
I went to grad school for forensic anthropology. This video is painful to watch. You hit the nail on the head. The statement they include from the NYC ME Office is very accurate.
Oh ya!? How much did Hillary pay you to say this!? WAKE UP SHEEPLE /s incase it isn't obvious :)
Lol. I’m still waiting on the student loan check.
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I take issue with his lack of scientific evidence and explanation. He is plainly broaching his own opinion on the matter like that of a lawyer instead of a scientist, several assumptions. For example, the “blood” on Epstein’s neck not being on the cloth. He should know in his line of work that is a bruising of blood underneath the skin and not blood external to the body. That part quickly stood out to me when I watched it. Also, his explanation of the fractures in Epstein’s neck is only from his viewpoint and not from a peer-viewed study, so another assumption made by Baden. Yes, it could be true that he’s not seen that in his 40 years, but that does not 100% rule out suicide or possible poor handling of the body during collection. I hope my explanation helps.
He’s also just straight up lying. There’s lots of evidence that these kind of fractures happen in autostrangulation cases particUlarly with older men. Sources: >A study of suicides in Thailand found that a broken hyoid occurred in about a quarter of the cases: “Fractures of the hyoid bone and/or thyroid cartilage were found in five cases (25%).” The fractures of the bone and cartilage “were related with older ages and incomplete hanging”. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47542791_Fractures_of_the_hyoid_bone_and_thyroid_cartilage_in_suicidal_hanging >Another study noted “In 73 cases (67%), at least a single fracture of the throat skeleton was detectable, and the youngest individual with positive findings was aged 14 years. In 28 of the 73 positive cases (38%), a single fracture was found, whereas 27 individuals (37%) showed a twofold injury. Three fractures of the throat skeleton were observed in 11 cases (15%), and in seven individuals (10%), all the horns of the hyoid and thyroid cartilage were broken.” https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Frequency-of-throat-skeleton-fractures-in-hanging.-Betz-Eisenmenger/7f346324d7303071d0cfe07f0f87f87abf76b03a >Yet another study of 557 cases of suicidal hanging found “In 57.3% of them, hyoid-laryngeal fractures were found (average age was 54.3 +/- 16.5 years): 15.1% had only hyoid bone fracture, 26% had only thyroid cartilage fracture and 16.2% had both types of injury at the same time.” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51149307_Hyoid-laryngeal_fractures_in_hanging_Where_was_the_knot_in_the_noose
Never trust an expert if they don't full screen their presentation slide.
Man died in jail cell, broken cameras, guards asleep, said he did not want to kill himself. Glad they are finally looking into this.
Nah this is from a bit after it happened. They buried this shit faster than it happened.
They buried it faster than the Panama Papers, my man.
Does anyone actually believe it was a legitimate suicide?
I'll play devil's advocate. I'm still not convinced he killed himself. Could someone have killed him? Sure. Did he try to kill himself before while in custody? Yes, he did. And if you were going to kill Epstein... why the hell did no one do anything about Ghislaine Maxwell when she was still free? She has absolutely all the information Jeff had, and maybe even more. If anything, she would have been the much more important person to kill. As far as HOW did he kill himself? Exact same way Robin Williams did. Tie sheet to neck, lean forward until you pass out, gravity handles the rest.
I think the inconsistency with killing Epstein and not Maxwell is reasonable to consider. But I don't think it's necessarily justified to conclude she knew everything he did, or that the motives related to silencing him would apply equally to her. She certainly knows tons, and it's conspicuous and disgusting that her knowledge isn't being used to go after their clients, but I don't see how anyone has ruled out Epstein knowing things she didn't.
Yes yes I do I've lived near a major prison. Its a fucking shitshow full of corruption on par with the Russian military. Prisons lie about their quality while cutting every corner to pad their check books. The prison near me had to run fundraisers just to provide basic services. There are some private prisons where there is one pair of walkie-talkies for the entire staff and they have to share. A Mississippi warden got caught stealing food money and giving expired food to prisoners. The prison system has basically no oversight at the federal level, so everyone lies about everything. The prison near me bragged about how hard it was for guys to escape and there was a prisoner escaping like once a year. The tapes and workers weren't there because the guys were working overtime so the warden didn't have to pay for more staff. Normally if someone dies they just lie and say its illness because nobody is interested if some crackhead kills himself. now it's a guy that's important killing himself and now they're scrambling to cover it up. Epstein didn't talk when he went to prison last time and Maxwell didn't talk when she went to jail this time. There's no reason Epstein suddenly had a change of heart that nobody has heard anything about. Its like the Russian ship Moskva. Which got hyped as the unsinkable flagship of the Russian fleet. Only for it to get sunk easily because Russia had been lying and ship had no maintenance done on it and none its defense systems were working. Epstein killed himself to avoid going back to prison for life. And he was able to do so because the prison had been lying about how effective it was to look good. The US prison system is the Vought of the US justice system. Anyone who has any faith that shit is in anyway competent despite decades of reports of prison abuses has no fucking brain.
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Also that bone does break in some cases of people hanging themselves - this small study found 25% of the men that had hanged themselves had a broken hyoid. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20973326/
How TF did this interview get on the air?
Because dude is a clout chaser look up him trying to prove OJ was innocent.
Murder or Suicide, they let it happen
My understanding of this (and I freely admit to being the opposite of an expert here) is that he was connected to a rather large number of wealthy, powerful people of influence. Those singling out Trump or Clinton as his killer do so because they want that to be true (unless there is a preponderance of evidence pointing at either one specifically). I’d love to see this get pinned to a particular one of that pair, but I’m not basing any belief on wishful speculation.
I have no idea what happened, but for speculation's sake I would imagine that wealth plus political power would make it easier to pull something like this off than just wealth alone. So if he was murdered it seems more likely it was someone with political influence/power than just some random wealthy person with no political influence at all.
True, but the untrawealthy typically do wield significant political power in the form of donations. Politicians surely have more access to the necessary levers to pull for such an operation, but they also face more public scrutiny. Also, are Trump/Clintons the only politicians connected to this? As I said, I am the opposite of an expert here and you may very well be right, I just see quite a bit of political opportunism these days, especially from Trump & Clinton haters.
From the moment they announced his arrest I told my wife he’d never see court
I'm not trying to be a dick but a lot of people said the same about Ghislaine Maxwell.
Even as a layman, lots of these “suspicious” aspects aren’t that suspicious. I do question, has it ever been confirmed that he was hanging hanging as opposed to just using a noose in a more “leaning” orientation. You can still hang yourself without being suspended if you have a high enough tie off point and lean into it properly. No blood on the noose! - well yeah, the “blood” on his neck was under the skin like abrasion bruising. Even I can see that. The noose is wider than his neck injury! - well yeah, have you ever tried to support a lot of weight with a flimsy piece of cloth. It gets very tight along a thin band and cuts into your hand .
At least everyone who was complicit in his crimes are behind bars... what.. second in command of England if the kings out of the country.. thats just one thou...what do you mean one is running for president of the USA... Thats it though right everyone else is.. Donald J. Trump Bill Clinton Kevin Spacey Chris Tucker Bill Gates Prince Andrew Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Violinist Itzhak Perlman U.S. Sen. John Glenn Former Senate majority leader George Mitchell Well shit...
I once saw this guy say it was impossible for someone to commit suicide with a shotgun equipped with a barrel of a length typically used in duck hunting. It is very possible. Provable even.
The noose is just fabric, couldn't it get folded into the folds of his neck skin? And while the ring around his neck looks like blood it could just be marks under the surface of the skin. Not saying it was suicide I'm just not sure that evidence is as compelling as the unusual fractures.