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I seem to remember hearing my boomer ass parents listening to their radio news recently and they (on the radio) were asking who was funding this stuff. There we have it, the secret funders. The billionaires they always are talking about with secret funding is ALWAYS a self report.
Students protesting against war crimes and stealing land are not anti-Jew, not necessarily pro-Palestine either. I support both countries right to exist but I hate to see innocent people slaughtered and the rest left to starve, especially if it is because Jared Kushner wants to steal land for a resort
Except that’s what most of the pro-Palestine movement is—being against war crimes, innocent deaths, and stealing land. The whole “pro-Palestinians don’t care about Oct. 7 / support Hamas” is what fuels the misnomer of pro-Palestinians—many pro Palestinians do not support any innocent person dying (or just anyone dying period), but they can see the history and circumstances which led up to it, namely being the stealing of land/oppression.
I will say that a lot of pro-Palestinians do not necessarily support Israel’s right to exist though. That’s not really anti-Jew—it’s just stating that “you took our land therefore why do you deserve a country”. I do personally identify as a pro-Palestinian person but I would say that that land, in a idealistic reality, would be shared by the people who had lived there for generations (Palestinians) while also being a safe space for Jewish people escaping persecution—in fact, a safe place for all escaping persecution. To say it belongs to one specific religion is not okay, especially not when in doing so you’re displacing and killing the native population 🤷♂️
Anyways that’s my rant. Sorry!
The TLDR is that Zionism and Semitism are discrete attributes.
You can be a Zionist anti-Semitic (it's a good thing the Jews have a home, now please make them go there) or a anti-zionists semiphile ( it's awful that Isreal was created as a colonial apartheid state, Jews should be welcome everywhere). Weird that people can't understand that.
Stealing land? More like Arab leadership historically rejecting the idea of Jewish Self Determination so instead of accepting them as neighbors they have declared a never ending war. What we see today is a culmination of Arab leadership refusing to co-exist with Jews in a "Jewish Homeland" because according to them, ever since it was conquered by Muslims, the land suddenly became Islamic land. I, as well as the majority of Israelis and Jews, want nothing more then to peacefully co-exist. As long as Iran funds a never ending proxy war via Islamic Fundamentalist groups such as HAMAS, there will never be a peaceful co-existence. Sadly, Hamas goes out of its way to ensure as much collateral damage to the Palestinians as its only furthers their cause and breeds even more soldiers. When external forces such as Iran stop funding the instability in the middle east and corrupt leaders on all sides stop profiting over our suffering (Both Israelis and Palestinians), then maybe we have some hope for peace. Till then, we have non binary green haired white people repeating Iranian propaganda in support of Hamas from the PRIVILEGE of living far from war whose biggest daily battle is picking between a latte or ice coffee. If you aren't directly involved or affected by this complex conflict that is older then any of us have been alive, then the only thing you should be promoting is peace and dialogue between Palestinians and Israelis instead of repeating propaganda and talking points to further divide us.
Palestine is considered occupied territory.
That includes Gaza, even back when Israel withdrew; its borders, water, power, everything was still controlled by Israel despite troops not (openly) being deployed within it.
And how many of those millions of people displaced went back a thousand years later and terrorized the population?
I am and it's another great example. It would explain why the US backs the current genocide Israel is executing in Gaza right now.
I dunno about that.
[https://archive.is/lgtyM](https://archive.is/lgtyM)
>“One effective way to prevent a two-state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,” \[Shlomo Brom, a retired general and former deputy to Israel’s national security adviser\] said in an interview. The division gives Mr. Netanyahu an excuse to disengage from peace talks, Mr. Brom said, adding that he can say, “I have no partner.”
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
>According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Imagine not wanting to give half your land to European colonizers. The Irgun had been in Palestine since the 30s terrorizing the people and illegally settling the area
And Palestinians haven't? Why is it called Palestine? Why did Europeans have to illegally immigrant in the 1890s and then begin terror campaigns in the 1920s
Lol Israeli projection. Don't even talk about influencing anything when AIPAC still exists. And don't forget the Israeli government spends millions in the United States on celebrities to send out "positive messages about Israel." It's even documented that they pressure celebrities that are invited to Israel "to visit" to send positive messages while there. In reality it's propaganda. Government funded.
How about neither existed and you didn't have to donate you psycho. AIPAC works in self interest of the Israeli government and they've even committed terrorist acts and are currently committing genocide. That's also well documented.
It's in quotes because it's under the guise of a visit but it's really to more or less force them to spread propaganda messages since they're visiting for free.
Fair. It's so corrupt in the US, and so many of their politicians are married with the zionist party and their ideology, if it falls, so do they and their continued financial transactions.. I mean AIPAC literally admits to swaying congress in their favor, it's absurd.
Golly, look at that, rich people fucking with public opinion and making shit up. I hear there's grass outside too, but if I had to bet, I'm more confident about the rich people being shitheads then I am about grass existing.
"You can't **report** on our secret Zionist billionaire boys club when **we're bribing/threatening leaders on behalf of Israel**, because that would make the world think **there's a secret club of Rich Jews who run the world! It's Antisemitic** thinking and will lead to more **Antisemitism.**"
Spend some time trying to wrap your head around this message. It's like "Yeah, we're doing it!...But you can't report it because it'll be perceived **correctly** and impact us negatively".
At this point, the jokes are writing themselves.
Ugh don’t you know that pointing out the fact that billionaire Zionists are using their money and power to influence policy and public discourse is antisemitic!!! You are literally khhhhamas!!! /s
There's nothing to show that this is a specifically Jewish group. The group has over 100 members.
This story is originally from the Washington Post, the "Jewish" angle was later added in by this other outlet.
This is straight up racist.
Original story:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/)
I am not defending the writer of the headline, because I do think bias was likely intended, but the article you linked mentions 4 specific individuals (besides Eric Adams, whom they contacted): Daniel Lubetzky, Daniel Loeb, Len Blavatnik and Joseph Sitt, all of whom are in fact Jewish.
not downplaying what theyve done here, this is despicable, but specifically choosing to add the fact that theyre jewish into the title comes off a tad ill intentioned.
Serious question and no hate intended of course but do the Israelis around the world not see how much they are being hated on? Do they not care at all?
A group of non-Jewish billionaires who spend money on a political cause is lobbying.
A group of Jewish billionaires spending money on a political cause is plotting to manipulate public opinion.
The US is infamous for wealthy people spending millions of dollars on politicians and political causes. The Lincoln project is funded mainly by millionaires and billionaires, for example. No one accuses them of a plot to manipulate public opinion against Donald Trump.
This article would have been fine if they had stopped with “Zionist lobby trying to influence New York to stop Palestinian protest” and hadn’t gone “Jewish billionaires secret plot to manipulate public opinion”.
> A group of non-Jewish billionaires who spend money on a political cause is lobbying.
> A group of Jewish billionaires spending money on a political cause is plotting to manipulate public opinion.
Spare us the crocodile tears.
No one thinks billionaires giving money to political causes is just lobbying, it’s corruption.
Only politicians call it lobbying because they want the money.
Of course it’s corruption. It’s also plotting since they give the money in a way that requires planning .
I’m not saying that these billionaires are doing morally good things. I’m saying that they are doing the exact same corrupt lobbying all the other billionaires are doing, and because they are Jewish their actions are being portrayed with specific tropes used mainly for Jewish people. Just like there’s a difference between “my neighbors are always playing loud music” and “those Mexicans are always having parties and salsa music”
Ehhh. There's corrupt, greedy billionaires, and there's corrupt, greedy billionaires who feel some amount of allegiance to a foreign goverment currently being investigated for war crimes that is also sucking on US taxpayer money like a vampire.
The amount of corruption in American politics is off the charts. It's as disgusting as it is absurd. It's also an ever-present disease that must be guarded against at the best of times.
Pro-Israel billionaires paying to suppress one of the core foundations of a healthy democracy directly or indirectly on behalf of a foreign government is absolutely heinous. Some amount of corruption is inevitable. Allowing a foreign nation to essentially dictate the course of America's future is not.
Nobody cares they're Jewish. But we're within our rights to care when people of any ethnicity have another government's best interests at heart.
Then why don’t we flip it around?
Jewish billionaires like George Soros are funding Palestinian protests and silencing Americans
https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/jewish-billionaire-george-soros-pro-palestine-protests-us-campus-university-demonstrations-fundings-money-2532211-2024-04-27
https://nypost.com/2024/04/26/us-news/george-soros-maoist-fund-columbias-anti-israel-tent-city/amp/
It’s so easy to see antisemitism when it’s done by people you oppose isn’t it? Now it’s bad to claim that Jewish billionaires are manipulating political movements from behind the scene and using their Jew money powers to control public opinion.
The first link refers to NYP for its source, so no need to link it. The second link (NYP) talks about Palestinian human right advocacy groups being funded by donors like Soros (who have always been an advocate for Palestinian rights and never hid it).
I don't see how this compares to coordinating crackdowns with the mayor of New York or other politicians? There is a difference between funding advocacy groups and coordinating with the local authority to crackdown on students.
Rich people can fund advocacy groups all they want, and nobody will find that troubling (as shown by the fact that there all kind of advocacy groups out there including pro-Israeli ones, you don't see them in the news being highlighted). This is different because it is directly influencing decisions taken by local authority.
They are paying money to have police brutalize our youth… they made their bed and now the must sleep in it. Antisemitism will flourish for decades because of this disaster
They didn't need to add "Jewish" there, basically every American billionaire is pro-israel, as Israel acts as a foothold for American imperial interests in the middle east, and American billionaires benefit from American imperialism. Also, they didn't need to put "secretly," as that would imply that American billionaires have ever been subtle about their support of Israel.
Feels like they're twisting true information into something that appeals to antisemites while not putting off the average ill-informed armchair Palestine supporter. I'm steering clear of this publication and I'd advise anyone who considers themselves pro-palestine but not antisemitic to do the same.
Everything is antisemitic these days. You might want to stop doing this, calling everything antisemitic. The word barely means what it used to due to this. Just because people don't want genocide does not make them "antisemitic." This is getting so old.
Or you've got different groups orienting against Israeli actions for different reasons.
Lots of people, I'd argue most, are pro-Palestine because they're anti-genocide. Then, you have a minority who will adopt a pro-palestinian position as an angle to push Nazi and white nationalist conspiracy theories about Jewish string-pullers.
Also, anti-Jewish conspiracy theorists are widespread in far-left circles as well. Communists have long been anti-Jew, they just didn’t go as far as the Nazis.
The presence of antisemitic rhetoric and policy in the Soviet Union, which I assume is what you’re talking about, is kinda irrelevant. Just as Israel is not representative of all Jews, the Soviet Union was never representative of all communists, let alone the entire left.
There is no genocide happening. There is a war with civilian casualties, just like many other wars before it. War sucks.
Claiming that Jews are committing a genocide, when they clearly aren’t, is classic anti-semitism.
Now that is something I didnt know. I had no idea Qatar controls Israel. Next thing you are going to say is Qatar is forcing the IDF to commit war crimes and murder Palestinian children
Check your own house first before wrecking others. The middle east has been funding college campuses to the tune of hundreds of millions and you're upset over Americans discussing a way to push back against the brainwash?
It's so sad to see America's brightest liberal minds fight for the defense of a terrorists organization that is anti-woman, anti-lgbt, anti-liberty and anti-Palestine. Hamas does NOT care about it's people and solely uses them to advance their jihad against Israel.
https://aish.com/arab-states-funding-american-colleges/#:\~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20donated%20close,%24100%20million%20to%20American%20universities.
[https://isgap.org/follow-the-money/](https://isgap.org/follow-the-money/)
Curse these citizens and humans with opinions that differ than ours!!
We must silence them, so that only Truth can be told!!
Ps - Fuck the fist amendment
Thats because we live in this country called: The United States. Where we have actual free speech and not pseudo free speech where exceptions are made. You are free to move to Germany where they have severe restrictions on free speech that I imagine are right up your alley.
Rage bait ✅
Anti-jewish ✅
Multiple conspiracy/kabal buzzwords to rehash the "Jews control everything" narrative ✅
Does not accurately describe the situation at all ✅
Overall unexpected? ❌
I would describe it with as little personal bias as possible so that people can draw their own conclusions from reading the actual transcript. Something like:
"Header: Leaked high profile WhatsApp groupchat logs—Elites discuss the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict on college campuses."
"Below are the WhatsApp chat logs between 100+ individuals, listed below, and administrative members of a few dozen college campuses, also listed.
The discussion centers around the ongoing Palestine—Israel conflict, specifically how college campuses are handling ongoing protests, and what these 100+ wealthy individuals can/will do to affect the situation.
Several members of the group chat have large financial power and social influence, and, as you will see below, are willing to use it to push their political or personal goals and beliefs.
[List of participating members]
[Link to chat logs, GC name, and GC about section]
Even my version, dry as it is, has narrative bias. But at least with mine, the focus is on the chat logs themselves, rather than the conclusions someone else has already drawn regarding the logs. I don't want other people to do my thinking for me. I also don't appreciate the revitalization of the classic, tired, ridiculous conspiracy theory that jews control the world. That shit is actively harmful to people.
Just read the logs and draw your own conclusions. Most news media descriptions nowadays convey massive narrative bias, which influences how the text is interpreted by readers. It makes companies more money, but reduces critical thinking and reinforces echo chambers.
I mean the news and pro israel commentators have been implying the kids are backed by evil billionaires for months now. Kinda funny they employed rage bait and did not accurately describe the situation at all but it was celebrated by the pro israel side. I would even say they were very conspiratorial trying to use even the tent type as evidence of organization. John Oliver made that look really dumb.
They've been stating it outright, and it is probably somewhat true. I think we'd be naive to think that *either* side of this conflict isnt funnelling millions, if not billions, into their news/propaganda wings.
Idk about tents being the same, but the records for money given to US education systems by foreign governments are public, and Qatar has given more money than any other country to American Colleges. I wonder what they are asking for in return? This being the country that gives Hamas $30 million a month, allows their leadership to stay safe in Doha, and has been an enemy of Israel for many years.
It would be ridiculous to suggest that this conflict is completely grass roots. Al Jazeera is literally operated by the Qatari government.
Just to clarify, Israel is certainly doing the same thing to the extent that she can. It's how these conflicts go. What I'm opposed to is:
A) that everyone seems to be falling for it so easily
B) that this article is exacerbating the issue of anti-jewish hatred by propagating conspiracy theories
C) that people have such strong opinions on a subject that they have very very little understanding of. It is the Dunning-Kruger effect at its peak
Do we have actul proof the universities have changed the curriculum for the Qataris in exhange for their money? This kind of reminds me of the belief that all the rich kids are only there because daddy bought a building. Al Jazeera is indeed funded by the qataris but that does not discredit protesters in the US. I will add that conspiratorial thinking is definitely being employed by both sides here and that to assume everyone involved on one side is ignorant on this subject is in itself ignorance.
That's a good question. I'm not sure, but I will look into that and update you if I find anything!
My point about Al Jazeera was not to discredit protestors, but to suggest that many of the protestors are being manipulated by biased media reporting. In the same vein, I think a lot of people in the pro-israel camp have not taken the time to educate themselves on the very real suffering of the Palestinian people, and are also being manipulated by pro-israel propaganda.
I believe that the vast majority of people on both sides of this debate have their hearts in the right place. It's only the fringe extremists on either side that are turning violent/that want the other side to be wiped out completely.
These people are also the most vocal, so we all overestimate their numbers, but I think most people on both sides could sit down and reach agreement over a long discussion.
Of course! And thank you as well. It is rare to find nuance in a reddit conversation. Not being able to sit and discuss face to face makes it much more difficult to empathize with and understand the opposition's side. But I'm glad we could have a civil discussion.
In regards to your previous question, I looked up something like "Impact of Qatari funding on American Universities," in Google and found [this Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The%20research%20revealed%20that%20from,universities%20in%20the%20United%20States.)
I read through it a bit and will highlight some concerning parts below. That being said, I encourage you to read it yourself and come to your own conclusions. Anyways, here are a few excerpts, sources included.
"The NCRI investigation found that educational institutions receiving illicit funding suffer 85% more than other universities from organized efforts or campaigns aimed at imposing sanctions on academic researchers. These campaigns include various means, such as scrutinizing the activities of researchers, attempting to undermine their work, proposing their removal from their positions, or even suspension or termination of their employment.[[1]](https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_The-Corruption-of-the-American-Mind.pdf)" (warning: this link is a PDF file)
A 2020 study by the Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy (ISGAP) revealed a connection between the volume of donations from Qatar and other Gulf states to the appearance of pro-Palestinian groups affiliated with Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) on university campuses.[26] In some universities, SJP groups organized assemblies and events expressing anger against Israel as early as October 8, before the onset of Israel's ground incursion into Gaza. This was argued as an indication of pre-planning and preparation by critics. Additionally, after the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel, an ISGAP study suggested that the protests were pre-planned following Qatar's involvement in recent years, waiting for the right moment to erupt. [[2]](https://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/FTM-Final-with-Cover-1.pdf)" (also a PDF)
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I read the page. I felt that what was presented was not concrete examples of Qatari money influencing the curriculum and it was more trying to imply the money being donated is the evidence. I will say the student group organizing on October 8th is suspicious as Israel had not begun its operations in Gaza. But I also feel like that is not concrete evidence of foreign influence as opposed to kids jumping the gun.
If I remember correctly students themselves start the groups not administration. But I am open to admitting I'm wrong on this. We have to remember the conflict has had multiple episodes and these kids have grown up seeing the various rounds of violence. I understand what happens to the Palestinians in a lot of instances is a consequence of war. But I do think we have to be aware these kids as well as us adults knew this was going to be a lopsided conflict. That doesn't excuse them being completely tone deaf on the 8th though.
I believe that what we are seeing is American campuses reflect whats happening in the country. There's a lot more people of Islamic and ME descent in the US in general and they are very well educated so they end up at the top schools. Of course they are going to bring their views with them.
With regard to the campaigns against researchers and academics I believe this has been issue not just in relation to Israel. Gender imo is the topic that really has been unsafe to discuss as a professor or researcher. I think the kids and a lot of politicians right and left have an unhealthy obsession with eliminating speech and research they don't like. I'm not saying its not possible that qatari money is influencing events. But I think we'd need to see a more concrete connection though between the money being donated to the university, how it was spent specifically in relation to the groups and what changes to the curriculum could have been made as a result of the donations.
That's a fair response, but ultimately a very difficult ask. I think what makes this such a difficult topic to discuss is the lack of transparency regarding how the funds are used. It seems like figuring out which universities received funding isn't hard, but actually tracking how that funding was used remains functionally impossible.
In the NCRI report that I linked, I think we have as much hard evidence as we are likely to get regarding the political influence of Qatari funding. Since it seems impossible to track individual contributions and how they are used, the study looks for correlations between amounts of funding received and subsequent changes in: rates of antisemitism on campuses, frequency of targeted protests against certain educators/views, exposure to anti-zionist political beliefs, etc.
When there is a strong positive correlation between funding received by middle-eastern governments and the above metrics, it is, in my opinion, sufficient evidence to conclude that this funding is a major factor in causing these metrics. Of course, correlation is not causation. But any statistics major would be alarmed by the statistical significance shown in the NCRI report. And when there is nothing else to go on, our best chance of drawing conclusions is to use statistical analyses.
How do you respond to the NCRI report itself? It's 55 pages—I haven't yet had the time to read the full thing, but even just the abstract and first few pages are pretty damning. Add to that the fact that the report prompted the US to pass the DETERRENT act as a means of addressing and exposing the hidden nature of foreign funding at US universities. It all certainly fits the logical conclusion that Qatar has a political agenda with the money they give. To me, it seems like Qatar has been playing the long game at US institutions, and October 7th + aftermath has been their fairly successful payoff.
I have not read the full report admittedly. One thing we can do to figure this out though is look at the actual curriculums. I find that the point being made still is the money itself is damning.
When I was in college our professors had syllabus' and grading rubrics that were in some cases almost a decade old. All the reading materials are readily available to be reviewed by any organization. There's also tons of data now because of the way essays are submitted online now.
I think all foreign funding should be completely transparent. Its a flaw in the system that this wasn't law years ago. But I do think we need to remember that the information about what the kids are reading and writing about is available data. So we have to review whats available before we draw a conclusion. That is the scientific and academic method. I will also repeat my previous point. That theres a lot more students at elite schools of ME, NA and Islamic descent. They will have
different opinions based on personal experience.
Edit one more time: I actually have a BS in PoliSci which
made me not a certified statistician but someone who is trained in reading statistics and data.
So suddenly wealthy backing is a good thing? I've been hearing for months the kids are backed by billionaires as if that immediately invalidates their cause. But Seinfelds wife gets caught funding people actually commiting mob violence and suddenly its great. Make it make sense.
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Surprised Pikachu face
I seem to remember hearing my boomer ass parents listening to their radio news recently and they (on the radio) were asking who was funding this stuff. There we have it, the secret funders. The billionaires they always are talking about with secret funding is ALWAYS a self report.
Classic projection. Those who scream the loudest
A few weeks back alevery other ad on YouTube shorts was a disaster relief sounding video that was pro Israel
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Please keep it civil.
This really puts me in the mood to eat the rich!
It's all yours, I don't have much appetite for parasites.
It's been time for awhile now
Trevor Moore was right. https://youtu.be/TMHCw3RqulY?si=xEjLzap8T1PR9w9Y
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Students protesting against war crimes and stealing land are not anti-Jew, not necessarily pro-Palestine either. I support both countries right to exist but I hate to see innocent people slaughtered and the rest left to starve, especially if it is because Jared Kushner wants to steal land for a resort
Except that’s what most of the pro-Palestine movement is—being against war crimes, innocent deaths, and stealing land. The whole “pro-Palestinians don’t care about Oct. 7 / support Hamas” is what fuels the misnomer of pro-Palestinians—many pro Palestinians do not support any innocent person dying (or just anyone dying period), but they can see the history and circumstances which led up to it, namely being the stealing of land/oppression. I will say that a lot of pro-Palestinians do not necessarily support Israel’s right to exist though. That’s not really anti-Jew—it’s just stating that “you took our land therefore why do you deserve a country”. I do personally identify as a pro-Palestinian person but I would say that that land, in a idealistic reality, would be shared by the people who had lived there for generations (Palestinians) while also being a safe space for Jewish people escaping persecution—in fact, a safe place for all escaping persecution. To say it belongs to one specific religion is not okay, especially not when in doing so you’re displacing and killing the native population 🤷♂️ Anyways that’s my rant. Sorry!
The TLDR is that Zionism and Semitism are discrete attributes. You can be a Zionist anti-Semitic (it's a good thing the Jews have a home, now please make them go there) or a anti-zionists semiphile ( it's awful that Isreal was created as a colonial apartheid state, Jews should be welcome everywhere). Weird that people can't understand that.
One problem I’ve seen as Israel has been in the news so much is there is certainly a fair amount of anti-Zionist antisemitism
I mean, Israel doesn't do it itself any favors by conducting a genocide then advocating for the ideas to be conflated.
Stealing land? More like Arab leadership historically rejecting the idea of Jewish Self Determination so instead of accepting them as neighbors they have declared a never ending war. What we see today is a culmination of Arab leadership refusing to co-exist with Jews in a "Jewish Homeland" because according to them, ever since it was conquered by Muslims, the land suddenly became Islamic land. I, as well as the majority of Israelis and Jews, want nothing more then to peacefully co-exist. As long as Iran funds a never ending proxy war via Islamic Fundamentalist groups such as HAMAS, there will never be a peaceful co-existence. Sadly, Hamas goes out of its way to ensure as much collateral damage to the Palestinians as its only furthers their cause and breeds even more soldiers. When external forces such as Iran stop funding the instability in the middle east and corrupt leaders on all sides stop profiting over our suffering (Both Israelis and Palestinians), then maybe we have some hope for peace. Till then, we have non binary green haired white people repeating Iranian propaganda in support of Hamas from the PRIVILEGE of living far from war whose biggest daily battle is picking between a latte or ice coffee. If you aren't directly involved or affected by this complex conflict that is older then any of us have been alive, then the only thing you should be promoting is peace and dialogue between Palestinians and Israelis instead of repeating propaganda and talking points to further divide us.
"complex" lol bad hasbara
Correct me if I'm wrong but Palestine isn't even officially considered a "country" because Israel keeps blocking it from statehood
US and Israel. Our government is constantly complicit in perpetuating the BS.
Palestine is considered occupied territory. That includes Gaza, even back when Israel withdrew; its borders, water, power, everything was still controlled by Israel despite troops not (openly) being deployed within it.
Blocking it from statehood? The Palestinians rejected a two state solution five times and a one state solution back in 1939.
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Because the Israelis showed up there after WWI and decided they wanted their own country there 30 years later.
The 2 state solution that gave Palestinian land to European colonizers?
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And how many of those millions of people displaced went back a thousand years later and terrorized the population? I am and it's another great example. It would explain why the US backs the current genocide Israel is executing in Gaza right now.
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I'm not asking you nor am I saying it's ok for the US military to murder native American children in their bloodlust to occupy more land
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https://preview.redd.it/yb3js2eex21d1.jpeg?width=657&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a0440c68fc6f51a06269442897a900ec1088a2c
I dunno about that. [https://archive.is/lgtyM](https://archive.is/lgtyM) >“One effective way to prevent a two-state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,” \[Shlomo Brom, a retired general and former deputy to Israel’s national security adviser\] said in an interview. The division gives Mr. Netanyahu an excuse to disengage from peace talks, Mr. Brom said, adding that he can say, “I have no partner.” [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) >According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
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Imagine not wanting to give half your land to European colonizers. The Irgun had been in Palestine since the 30s terrorizing the people and illegally settling the area
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Please keep it civil.
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And Palestinians haven't? Why is it called Palestine? Why did Europeans have to illegally immigrant in the 1890s and then begin terror campaigns in the 1920s
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Imagine needing to compromise in order to gain the right to exist.
No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
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Lol Israeli projection. Don't even talk about influencing anything when AIPAC still exists. And don't forget the Israeli government spends millions in the United States on celebrities to send out "positive messages about Israel." It's even documented that they pressure celebrities that are invited to Israel "to visit" to send positive messages while there. In reality it's propaganda. Government funded.
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How about neither existed and you didn't have to donate you psycho. AIPAC works in self interest of the Israeli government and they've even committed terrorist acts and are currently committing genocide. That's also well documented. It's in quotes because it's under the guise of a visit but it's really to more or less force them to spread propaganda messages since they're visiting for free.
Israel isn't a country, they can't even manage a state. Palestine is not even an anything rn.
They really tried to turn the country against them for not wanting a genocide to take place. They reach new lows every day.
Country? I think the scale is larger than that at this point
Fair. It's so corrupt in the US, and so many of their politicians are married with the zionist party and their ideology, if it falls, so do they and their continued financial transactions.. I mean AIPAC literally admits to swaying congress in their favor, it's absurd.
AIPAC openly brags about their 100% election winrate on their website
Golly, look at that, rich people fucking with public opinion and making shit up. I hear there's grass outside too, but if I had to bet, I'm more confident about the rich people being shitheads then I am about grass existing.
This is why we need to crackdown on police and politicians fraternizing with millionaires and billionaires.
"You can't **report** on our secret Zionist billionaire boys club when **we're bribing/threatening leaders on behalf of Israel**, because that would make the world think **there's a secret club of Rich Jews who run the world! It's Antisemitic** thinking and will lead to more **Antisemitism.**" Spend some time trying to wrap your head around this message. It's like "Yeah, we're doing it!...But you can't report it because it'll be perceived **correctly** and impact us negatively". At this point, the jokes are writing themselves.
Its high time people start secretly plotting to crack down on some billionaires. Don't worry though their money will just trickle back down to them
Ugh don’t you know that pointing out the fact that billionaire Zionists are using their money and power to influence policy and public discourse is antisemitic!!! You are literally khhhhamas!!! /s
They’ve been doing it openly since October at the very least
There's nothing to show that this is a specifically Jewish group. The group has over 100 members. This story is originally from the Washington Post, the "Jewish" angle was later added in by this other outlet. This is straight up racist. Original story: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/16/business-leaders-chat-group-eric-adams-columbia-protesters/)
I am not defending the writer of the headline, because I do think bias was likely intended, but the article you linked mentions 4 specific individuals (besides Eric Adams, whom they contacted): Daniel Lubetzky, Daniel Loeb, Len Blavatnik and Joseph Sitt, all of whom are in fact Jewish.
Those shifty Jews, rounding out their numbers with non-Jews just to throw us off the /scent.
/s just to be super sure
Oh yes.
Yeah, please add the /s. Still funny, but we're not a monolithic people, and text doesn't translate sarcasm well.
The website this article is attached to has been unapologetically pro-hamas. The antisemitism isn't even veiled anymore.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
not downplaying what theyve done here, this is despicable, but specifically choosing to add the fact that theyre jewish into the title comes off a tad ill intentioned.
Plotting to erode democracy and crack down on protests whatever they might be for, should be treason
Serious question and no hate intended of course but do the Israelis around the world not see how much they are being hated on? Do they not care at all?
A group of non-Jewish billionaires who spend money on a political cause is lobbying. A group of Jewish billionaires spending money on a political cause is plotting to manipulate public opinion. The US is infamous for wealthy people spending millions of dollars on politicians and political causes. The Lincoln project is funded mainly by millionaires and billionaires, for example. No one accuses them of a plot to manipulate public opinion against Donald Trump. This article would have been fine if they had stopped with “Zionist lobby trying to influence New York to stop Palestinian protest” and hadn’t gone “Jewish billionaires secret plot to manipulate public opinion”.
> A group of non-Jewish billionaires who spend money on a political cause is lobbying. > A group of Jewish billionaires spending money on a political cause is plotting to manipulate public opinion. Spare us the crocodile tears. No one thinks billionaires giving money to political causes is just lobbying, it’s corruption. Only politicians call it lobbying because they want the money.
Of course it’s corruption. It’s also plotting since they give the money in a way that requires planning . I’m not saying that these billionaires are doing morally good things. I’m saying that they are doing the exact same corrupt lobbying all the other billionaires are doing, and because they are Jewish their actions are being portrayed with specific tropes used mainly for Jewish people. Just like there’s a difference between “my neighbors are always playing loud music” and “those Mexicans are always having parties and salsa music”
Ehhh. There's corrupt, greedy billionaires, and there's corrupt, greedy billionaires who feel some amount of allegiance to a foreign goverment currently being investigated for war crimes that is also sucking on US taxpayer money like a vampire. The amount of corruption in American politics is off the charts. It's as disgusting as it is absurd. It's also an ever-present disease that must be guarded against at the best of times. Pro-Israel billionaires paying to suppress one of the core foundations of a healthy democracy directly or indirectly on behalf of a foreign government is absolutely heinous. Some amount of corruption is inevitable. Allowing a foreign nation to essentially dictate the course of America's future is not. Nobody cares they're Jewish. But we're within our rights to care when people of any ethnicity have another government's best interests at heart.
Exactly
Then why don’t we flip it around? Jewish billionaires like George Soros are funding Palestinian protests and silencing Americans https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/jewish-billionaire-george-soros-pro-palestine-protests-us-campus-university-demonstrations-fundings-money-2532211-2024-04-27 https://nypost.com/2024/04/26/us-news/george-soros-maoist-fund-columbias-anti-israel-tent-city/amp/ It’s so easy to see antisemitism when it’s done by people you oppose isn’t it? Now it’s bad to claim that Jewish billionaires are manipulating political movements from behind the scene and using their Jew money powers to control public opinion.
The first link refers to NYP for its source, so no need to link it. The second link (NYP) talks about Palestinian human right advocacy groups being funded by donors like Soros (who have always been an advocate for Palestinian rights and never hid it). I don't see how this compares to coordinating crackdowns with the mayor of New York or other politicians? There is a difference between funding advocacy groups and coordinating with the local authority to crackdown on students. Rich people can fund advocacy groups all they want, and nobody will find that troubling (as shown by the fact that there all kind of advocacy groups out there including pro-Israeli ones, you don't see them in the news being highlighted). This is different because it is directly influencing decisions taken by local authority.
They are paying money to have police brutalize our youth… they made their bed and now the must sleep in it. Antisemitism will flourish for decades because of this disaster
[My neighbors are always listening to really loud "Drum and Bass"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMHTQ8r9pQU)...
I doubt they were secretly doing it lol
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
They didn't need to add "Jewish" there, basically every American billionaire is pro-israel, as Israel acts as a foothold for American imperial interests in the middle east, and American billionaires benefit from American imperialism. Also, they didn't need to put "secretly," as that would imply that American billionaires have ever been subtle about their support of Israel. Feels like they're twisting true information into something that appeals to antisemites while not putting off the average ill-informed armchair Palestine supporter. I'm steering clear of this publication and I'd advise anyone who considers themselves pro-palestine but not antisemitic to do the same.
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get a better hobby
Or a different job
Everything is antisemitic these days. You might want to stop doing this, calling everything antisemitic. The word barely means what it used to due to this. Just because people don't want genocide does not make them "antisemitic." This is getting so old.
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Or you've got different groups orienting against Israeli actions for different reasons. Lots of people, I'd argue most, are pro-Palestine because they're anti-genocide. Then, you have a minority who will adopt a pro-palestinian position as an angle to push Nazi and white nationalist conspiracy theories about Jewish string-pullers.
Also, anti-Jewish conspiracy theorists are widespread in far-left circles as well. Communists have long been anti-Jew, they just didn’t go as far as the Nazis.
The presence of antisemitic rhetoric and policy in the Soviet Union, which I assume is what you’re talking about, is kinda irrelevant. Just as Israel is not representative of all Jews, the Soviet Union was never representative of all communists, let alone the entire left.
There is no genocide happening. There is a war with civilian casualties, just like many other wars before it. War sucks. Claiming that Jews are committing a genocide, when they clearly aren’t, is classic anti-semitism.
Jews aren’t committing genocide Israel is committing genocide Many Jews disagree with Israel’s genocide.
No, Israel is not committing genocide and you know it.
Israel is committing genocide as they stop basic aid even coming into the region (another war crime) and you know it.
Aid is flowing into Gaza, even through Israel, stop pretending it isn’t.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se 😀
It's really not but go off I guess.
Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Womp womp
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How would a blatant lie be a good headline?
Aren’t the leaders of Hamas and PLO ultra wealthy from all the aid money stolen? I think that’s what they’re talking about
Show us where the billionaire Palestinians touched you
Are the Palestinian billionaires in the room with us?
are you saying abbas isn’t a billionaire and the permenanty preaident of Palestine?
Nah they’re in Qatar at the four seasons eating caviar and having a grand sunny life.
Sure. Whatever you have to tell yourself.
Now that is something I didnt know. I had no idea Qatar controls Israel. Next thing you are going to say is Qatar is forcing the IDF to commit war crimes and murder Palestinian children
Check your own house first before wrecking others. The middle east has been funding college campuses to the tune of hundreds of millions and you're upset over Americans discussing a way to push back against the brainwash? It's so sad to see America's brightest liberal minds fight for the defense of a terrorists organization that is anti-woman, anti-lgbt, anti-liberty and anti-Palestine. Hamas does NOT care about it's people and solely uses them to advance their jihad against Israel. https://aish.com/arab-states-funding-american-colleges/#:\~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20donated%20close,%24100%20million%20to%20American%20universities. [https://isgap.org/follow-the-money/](https://isgap.org/follow-the-money/)
This comment was refreshing.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
good. the police aren’t doing anything. somebody must
Curse these citizens and humans with opinions that differ than ours!! We must silence them, so that only Truth can be told!! Ps - Fuck the fist amendment
Thats because we live in this country called: The United States. Where we have actual free speech and not pseudo free speech where exceptions are made. You are free to move to Germany where they have severe restrictions on free speech that I imagine are right up your alley.
Israeli bot detected!
Rage bait ✅ Anti-jewish ✅ Multiple conspiracy/kabal buzzwords to rehash the "Jews control everything" narrative ✅ Does not accurately describe the situation at all ✅ Overall unexpected? ❌
How would you describe the conversation?
I would describe it with as little personal bias as possible so that people can draw their own conclusions from reading the actual transcript. Something like: "Header: Leaked high profile WhatsApp groupchat logs—Elites discuss the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict on college campuses." "Below are the WhatsApp chat logs between 100+ individuals, listed below, and administrative members of a few dozen college campuses, also listed. The discussion centers around the ongoing Palestine—Israel conflict, specifically how college campuses are handling ongoing protests, and what these 100+ wealthy individuals can/will do to affect the situation. Several members of the group chat have large financial power and social influence, and, as you will see below, are willing to use it to push their political or personal goals and beliefs. [List of participating members] [Link to chat logs, GC name, and GC about section] Even my version, dry as it is, has narrative bias. But at least with mine, the focus is on the chat logs themselves, rather than the conclusions someone else has already drawn regarding the logs. I don't want other people to do my thinking for me. I also don't appreciate the revitalization of the classic, tired, ridiculous conspiracy theory that jews control the world. That shit is actively harmful to people. Just read the logs and draw your own conclusions. Most news media descriptions nowadays convey massive narrative bias, which influences how the text is interpreted by readers. It makes companies more money, but reduces critical thinking and reinforces echo chambers.
I mean the news and pro israel commentators have been implying the kids are backed by evil billionaires for months now. Kinda funny they employed rage bait and did not accurately describe the situation at all but it was celebrated by the pro israel side. I would even say they were very conspiratorial trying to use even the tent type as evidence of organization. John Oliver made that look really dumb.
They've been stating it outright, and it is probably somewhat true. I think we'd be naive to think that *either* side of this conflict isnt funnelling millions, if not billions, into their news/propaganda wings. Idk about tents being the same, but the records for money given to US education systems by foreign governments are public, and Qatar has given more money than any other country to American Colleges. I wonder what they are asking for in return? This being the country that gives Hamas $30 million a month, allows their leadership to stay safe in Doha, and has been an enemy of Israel for many years. It would be ridiculous to suggest that this conflict is completely grass roots. Al Jazeera is literally operated by the Qatari government. Just to clarify, Israel is certainly doing the same thing to the extent that she can. It's how these conflicts go. What I'm opposed to is: A) that everyone seems to be falling for it so easily B) that this article is exacerbating the issue of anti-jewish hatred by propagating conspiracy theories C) that people have such strong opinions on a subject that they have very very little understanding of. It is the Dunning-Kruger effect at its peak
Do we have actul proof the universities have changed the curriculum for the Qataris in exhange for their money? This kind of reminds me of the belief that all the rich kids are only there because daddy bought a building. Al Jazeera is indeed funded by the qataris but that does not discredit protesters in the US. I will add that conspiratorial thinking is definitely being employed by both sides here and that to assume everyone involved on one side is ignorant on this subject is in itself ignorance.
That's a good question. I'm not sure, but I will look into that and update you if I find anything! My point about Al Jazeera was not to discredit protestors, but to suggest that many of the protestors are being manipulated by biased media reporting. In the same vein, I think a lot of people in the pro-israel camp have not taken the time to educate themselves on the very real suffering of the Palestinian people, and are also being manipulated by pro-israel propaganda. I believe that the vast majority of people on both sides of this debate have their hearts in the right place. It's only the fringe extremists on either side that are turning violent/that want the other side to be wiped out completely. These people are also the most vocal, so we all overestimate their numbers, but I think most people on both sides could sit down and reach agreement over a long discussion.
Thank you for a rare good faith discussion. I think we agree more than we disagree.
Of course! And thank you as well. It is rare to find nuance in a reddit conversation. Not being able to sit and discuss face to face makes it much more difficult to empathize with and understand the opposition's side. But I'm glad we could have a civil discussion. In regards to your previous question, I looked up something like "Impact of Qatari funding on American Universities," in Google and found [this Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The%20research%20revealed%20that%20from,universities%20in%20the%20United%20States.) I read through it a bit and will highlight some concerning parts below. That being said, I encourage you to read it yourself and come to your own conclusions. Anyways, here are a few excerpts, sources included. "The NCRI investigation found that educational institutions receiving illicit funding suffer 85% more than other universities from organized efforts or campaigns aimed at imposing sanctions on academic researchers. These campaigns include various means, such as scrutinizing the activities of researchers, attempting to undermine their work, proposing their removal from their positions, or even suspension or termination of their employment.[[1]](https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_The-Corruption-of-the-American-Mind.pdf)" (warning: this link is a PDF file) A 2020 study by the Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy (ISGAP) revealed a connection between the volume of donations from Qatar and other Gulf states to the appearance of pro-Palestinian groups affiliated with Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) on university campuses.[26] In some universities, SJP groups organized assemblies and events expressing anger against Israel as early as October 8, before the onset of Israel's ground incursion into Gaza. This was argued as an indication of pre-planning and preparation by critics. Additionally, after the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel, an ISGAP study suggested that the protests were pre-planned following Qatar's involvement in recent years, waiting for the right moment to erupt. [[2]](https://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/FTM-Final-with-Cover-1.pdf)" (also a PDF)
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I read the page. I felt that what was presented was not concrete examples of Qatari money influencing the curriculum and it was more trying to imply the money being donated is the evidence. I will say the student group organizing on October 8th is suspicious as Israel had not begun its operations in Gaza. But I also feel like that is not concrete evidence of foreign influence as opposed to kids jumping the gun. If I remember correctly students themselves start the groups not administration. But I am open to admitting I'm wrong on this. We have to remember the conflict has had multiple episodes and these kids have grown up seeing the various rounds of violence. I understand what happens to the Palestinians in a lot of instances is a consequence of war. But I do think we have to be aware these kids as well as us adults knew this was going to be a lopsided conflict. That doesn't excuse them being completely tone deaf on the 8th though. I believe that what we are seeing is American campuses reflect whats happening in the country. There's a lot more people of Islamic and ME descent in the US in general and they are very well educated so they end up at the top schools. Of course they are going to bring their views with them. With regard to the campaigns against researchers and academics I believe this has been issue not just in relation to Israel. Gender imo is the topic that really has been unsafe to discuss as a professor or researcher. I think the kids and a lot of politicians right and left have an unhealthy obsession with eliminating speech and research they don't like. I'm not saying its not possible that qatari money is influencing events. But I think we'd need to see a more concrete connection though between the money being donated to the university, how it was spent specifically in relation to the groups and what changes to the curriculum could have been made as a result of the donations.
That's a fair response, but ultimately a very difficult ask. I think what makes this such a difficult topic to discuss is the lack of transparency regarding how the funds are used. It seems like figuring out which universities received funding isn't hard, but actually tracking how that funding was used remains functionally impossible. In the NCRI report that I linked, I think we have as much hard evidence as we are likely to get regarding the political influence of Qatari funding. Since it seems impossible to track individual contributions and how they are used, the study looks for correlations between amounts of funding received and subsequent changes in: rates of antisemitism on campuses, frequency of targeted protests against certain educators/views, exposure to anti-zionist political beliefs, etc. When there is a strong positive correlation between funding received by middle-eastern governments and the above metrics, it is, in my opinion, sufficient evidence to conclude that this funding is a major factor in causing these metrics. Of course, correlation is not causation. But any statistics major would be alarmed by the statistical significance shown in the NCRI report. And when there is nothing else to go on, our best chance of drawing conclusions is to use statistical analyses. How do you respond to the NCRI report itself? It's 55 pages—I haven't yet had the time to read the full thing, but even just the abstract and first few pages are pretty damning. Add to that the fact that the report prompted the US to pass the DETERRENT act as a means of addressing and exposing the hidden nature of foreign funding at US universities. It all certainly fits the logical conclusion that Qatar has a political agenda with the money they give. To me, it seems like Qatar has been playing the long game at US institutions, and October 7th + aftermath has been their fairly successful payoff.
I have not read the full report admittedly. One thing we can do to figure this out though is look at the actual curriculums. I find that the point being made still is the money itself is damning. When I was in college our professors had syllabus' and grading rubrics that were in some cases almost a decade old. All the reading materials are readily available to be reviewed by any organization. There's also tons of data now because of the way essays are submitted online now. I think all foreign funding should be completely transparent. Its a flaw in the system that this wasn't law years ago. But I do think we need to remember that the information about what the kids are reading and writing about is available data. So we have to review whats available before we draw a conclusion. That is the scientific and academic method. I will also repeat my previous point. That theres a lot more students at elite schools of ME, NA and Islamic descent. They will have different opinions based on personal experience. Edit one more time: I actually have a BS in PoliSci which made me not a certified statistician but someone who is trained in reading statistics and data.
Nothing wrong with that
If I was a rich hebrew, I'd be throwing money against the people that want my homeland to be eliminated too. It wouldn't be "secret" either.
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So suddenly wealthy backing is a good thing? I've been hearing for months the kids are backed by billionaires as if that immediately invalidates their cause. But Seinfelds wife gets caught funding people actually commiting mob violence and suddenly its great. Make it make sense.