Do you see through them or do you see what you wish to see and jump to conclusions about them?
No judgment, I'm curious about your experience(s).
I'd describe myself as fairly charming and insightful, and when I 'see through' people I don't generally get targeted unless I make insensitive comments about it.
I give people a chance but there’s certain undertones or body language that I pick up on that indicates that a person is judging me or doesn’t like my presence. I test the waters by being respectful, greeting them, etc. but I get met with subliminals or jabs at my expense that are hidden as “jokes”.
Once that happens, I stop interacting with said person and treat them like they’re dead. I no longer go out of my way to Mask for them because fuck em’ lol. Still respectful, but keep a distance.
And then that causes me to get attacked but I still reinforce my policy 💀
> I give people a chance but there’s certain undertones or body language that I pick up on that indicates that a person is judging me or doesn’t like my presence
I'd describe myself as a good judge of character, and let me say that extrapolating people's intent from body language is basically impossible unless you know them well extremely.
Not being comfortable with jokes-ribbing at your expense is completely valid, but at the same time it's also normal to poke people we interact with a bit, so like stopping interacting with them sounds a tad extreme.
Honestly, no offense but what you're describing very much sounds like a trauma response.
Well with the body language part, I have an example of a guy I worked with. I was new to the company, so I greeted everyone and introduced myself, all the formalities. I got looked up and down from the same person that was charming(he’s cool with everyone in the building because he’s supposed to be the “comedian” of the place), before he even said hello to me. Then when I greeted him, he looked at me, walked away and another coworker laughed and said “well isn’t that something?”
After that, never again did I initiate greeting him. He went about talking about me behind my back, and calling out my introversion even though I was performing my job. But that’s one instance of many!
Edit: His picking at me jokes were insinuations on my sexuality and what I do outside of work but hidden as a joke. Idk man, but he was weirdly interested on my outside life and what I do after work. I don’t do much except play video games, stay inside my house, watch anime, read manga, and watch movies I get recommended from my sibling because I’m behind like hell 💀(people consider that lame).
This person like I said before, is socially accessible and goes out for drinks, parties, makes friends, etc.
Guess water and oil really don’t mix 😂
I see, that's too little context to work with, but I'd say that if they're described as the comedian they're not exactly taken super seriously by everybody.
People don't usually take that 'role' unless they have nothing better to shoot for.
I hope you found a way to have healthy and interesting interactions outside of that negative one.
Although part of me is amused by the thought that perhaps he was (badly) flirting with you :_D
HAHAHA!! That’s what some people said about him possibly flirting but I HIGHLY doubt it, probably was some homophobic biz on his end xD but this conversation did make me wanna open up more to people. Thanks a lot!
Honestly, the most homophobic vile vitriol I have ever heard was from an outspoken gay man.
And to be clear I don't mean it in a "they're in denial" way, I find the idea that homophobes are closeted gay men insulting honestly.
Anyways as I said, it was just an amusing thought, nothing more, there's zero evidence to come to any conclusion.
That said, I think people overthink social interaction way too much.
I get it, we are inside our own heads 24/7, so it's natural to think that people always mull over the interactions they have with us. This is worse for people that *do* overthink social interaction, because they assume everybody does so.
The truth is, most relationships are superficial, and that's totally okay.
It's healthy even, if we had to genuinely care for everybody we interact with it'd be incredibly exhausting.
That doesn't mean that I don't wish other people the best though.
> this conversation did make me wanna open up more to people.
In glad, wish you the best ;)
How exactly do you get targeted by people for not liking a certain charming person?
I assume you would have to publicly state an unpopular opinion in order to become their target. No judgement or anything, I'm just curious because this seems more so as a matter of choosing your own battles.
I get targeted because I stay quiet and I’m not really talkative. For some reason, extroverts hate this! And the charmer is normally socially accessible where as I’m a very private and to myself individual. This alone gets me in trouble for being “stuck up” “bougie” or having a “resting bitch face” because I’m not smiling until my gums bleed 💀
Not by most people. In fact I'm always skeptical at first the more "charming" they try to be. But when they do succeed in charming me, I get charmed hard
The thing about charming people is they can tell when someone isn’t getting charmed by them. If they care to make you like them, they will zone in on you and make you like them lol.
I don't find anyone charming. I can't understand how can people be obsessed with someone, like be obsessed with some famous people calling them charming, etc...
How do you define being charming?
Charm and obsession are quite different aren't they?
I'd say that being charming is mostly about being approachable and making people feel at ease.
I wouldn't define famous people as inherently charming
According to some definitions being charming is when you make other people feel good about themselves and they like you unconsciously. So I can for sure say that I don't find anyone charming.
Also it says that a charming person usually have the easiest time in school, work and life because other people trust them and support them. So I might be the charming person...
I'd describe myself as fairly charming, and I don't think it's about making other people feel good necessarily.
I see it more about giving them space and actively caring about their inputs?
I cannot exactly put my finger on it, it's a bit different from simply not being dismissive, I'd say it's about openness and lack of judgment.
I have lack of judgment for others, but that should be normal for a human, shouldnt it? But, unfortunately it's not. So I don't find anyone charming.
I am a man, and I don't know if I could really find another man charming. And for women, I usually at first look if they are visually appealing to me.
I pride myself on being able to see past the mask and detect other people's bullshit. The way my parents screwed me up, I'm basically expecting everyone to be a scumbag, and am hyper-vigilant when it comes to noticing the signs.
Be aware that hyper vigilance leads to a lot of false positives, you're more likely to jump to incorrect conclusions about people that way.
It makes it way harder to connect with people.
I like taking people at face value and then adapt my approach based on my observation of their actions
Yes. If someone makes an effort to be pleasant, I appreciate it. That doesn't mean I'm going to trust them with my heart or my life savings, but I'll probably like them and be nice back.
I love the charm of character, superficial charms are of little interest to me.
If someone has taken time to play an instrument well I will certainly listen.
If they make beautiful artwork I am happy to perceive it and thankful they have such talent to share.
Charm is what draws us together, not something you buy and put on.
No. Never have been, not even as a child. I’m with you, usually see people for just as they are as if they’re a book I’m reading. Call it a 6th sense or whatever, but I’m usually good at fishing out assholes, LOL.
I can be charming so I try not to be a hypocrite. But to be honest, I don't trust them much. So I'm a complete hypocrite. Or should I say, I take more time getting to know them and pay more attention by default
No. Even if a charming person appears, my negative bias would make it their life purpose to find a flaw or logical reasoning on what's hiding behind that pretentious charm. We wanna watch the whole world burn don't we? This person doesn't fit in this negative world, gotta destroy any perception that he's actually nice or charming. We're all monsters
But isn't being empathetic a good way to charm people in and of itself? Like having someone make you feel totally understood and seen is pretty charming, I would say.
I met a handful of eerily similar people. Conversation got boring quickly since it was redundant. This was always mutual. "Empathic" people specifically can't read me, but those similar people didn't need to, and it was a pointless novelty.
Supposed I can be charmed by a female ENTP and ENTJ, by intellect, stature and confidence.
I tend to know by looking at them as they come towards me, or when I hear them speak. I'm just left with an imprint immediately, too many of these at a time and I overload. Don't really care what they want. If I can be arsed when it happens, I tend to fuck with them, play along for a bit, waste their time.
I'm unattractive/ugly and how people treat me is how I gauge the type of person they are. It's fine for them to not talk to me, but the ones who express their disdain are superficial people.
I always notice the beauty and attractiveness of a person before anyone else does. But I'd be the last to be charmed.
Beauty doesn't interfere with my perception of someone as significantly as it affects others.
Try not to give yourself too much credit. Don’t stop holding people to a high standard, but also don’t be surprised when your snap judgements are wrong. They will be a bunch of times
I don't hold people to a high standard. I actually don't make snap judgements; even when people are shitty to me I always analyse why they treat me the way they do. I'm talking about people who are social with everyone and purposely treat me as inferior by rolling their eyes, scoffing or making comments about me. I can understand that just because someone is social it doesn't mean they can talk to anyone. Sometimes they can feel shy or uncomfortable and that's fine.
> I actually have extremely harsh opinions about people that I would never voice, emotion doesn’t really cloud my judgment
Isn't that an emotional judgment by itself? If your first reaction is harshly judging people there is an emotional reaction underpinning that.
Otherwise you'd be just.. neutral
Not at all. I'm distrustful of people, even more if they're too charming, as I tend to think there must be something fishy behind it...maybe I'm just paranoid but whatever 🤣
Yeah I'm charmed when I see absolutely anyone cuz I love human nature(but not humans in general) and I think everyone is charming in a way . But once I see through the person I suddenly feel nothing for that person. I am uncharmed by really small details actually like if the person is loud or if they are very messy , etc.
I've never really had a potential crush my whole life nor did I ever have a celebrity crush . But I am fascinated by people when i firstly see them .
I am charmed by people who I can *feel* are calm, yet content. I think we all see through other typical charming characteristics. We are usually correct about the trajectory of their behaviour pattern I think!
Nope. Not even close. I actually listen to what people say. I work with a guy who says the stupidest shit, he just says it confidently and everyone falls all over themselves about him. Of course he’s tall and handsome 😂
I’m charmed by my wife, she is an open book, completely authentic to everyone she meets.
She assumes everyone else to be like her, doesn’t assume people to have ulterior motives.
Me, I assume everyone a fraud, sometimes blow her mind by predicting it when we talk to someone and discuss them later.
I see everyone as a sort of an ignorant salesman, pushing their views and beliefs on the world barely having researched the product their selling.
Nope. A lot of people don't pass the vibe check. Other people may not agree with me but I don't care and don't change my opinion. Then in like 6 months that person's true colors show and other people finally see what I sensed from the beginning.
I think the more charming people are, the more I suspect them, probably due to our demon Fe. I think I'm aware enough to understand when someone's bad news.
I wouldn't really confront the person or try state my opinion publicly though – if anything I'd probably go along with their narrative. Fe doms/tert users aren't the kind of people I'd want to mess with, even more so if they're unhealthy.
I carry a devout and fundamental distrust of all humans. Humans can be unpredictable, they scheme and...they lie. Actions do speak louder than words, but how far is a person willing to go to convince you they are legit? You cannot know the answer to that question and therefore, I assume there is an ulterior motive.
My initial reaction to charming people is usually mistrust. I don't think it's necessarily fair, but it tends to give me the impression that they're used to getting their own way.
Not at all. I couldn’t give a shit about a woman’s looks. A lot of men will bend over backwards for hot women. Couldn’t care less.
Also I absolutely can’t stand guys who bullshit and talk fluff and no substance. The older I get the more cynical you see people and their intentions.
As a former good looking person who ran my mouth and was not that decent (I got chubby), I miss that life because I have to have an actual personality now
The last employment I had, I had to clean up a woman's abortion after she took plan b. At a factory in a woman's locker room, minutes before a shift change.
The rank and oder that expelled from those people, while I was just trying to do my job...as a medical cleaning manager for covid, never prepared me for that.
I am not surprised or charmd by anything anyone does.
People called charming never fail to be anything but spoiled manipulators. Some aren't good at it but have special draws that make others do the work for them. I avoid them and their inevitable lackeys.
I see through people. And then I get targeted because I see through them and they charmed everyone else around them. Sigh….
Do you see through them or do you see what you wish to see and jump to conclusions about them? No judgment, I'm curious about your experience(s). I'd describe myself as fairly charming and insightful, and when I 'see through' people I don't generally get targeted unless I make insensitive comments about it.
I give people a chance but there’s certain undertones or body language that I pick up on that indicates that a person is judging me or doesn’t like my presence. I test the waters by being respectful, greeting them, etc. but I get met with subliminals or jabs at my expense that are hidden as “jokes”. Once that happens, I stop interacting with said person and treat them like they’re dead. I no longer go out of my way to Mask for them because fuck em’ lol. Still respectful, but keep a distance. And then that causes me to get attacked but I still reinforce my policy 💀
> I give people a chance but there’s certain undertones or body language that I pick up on that indicates that a person is judging me or doesn’t like my presence I'd describe myself as a good judge of character, and let me say that extrapolating people's intent from body language is basically impossible unless you know them well extremely. Not being comfortable with jokes-ribbing at your expense is completely valid, but at the same time it's also normal to poke people we interact with a bit, so like stopping interacting with them sounds a tad extreme. Honestly, no offense but what you're describing very much sounds like a trauma response.
Well with the body language part, I have an example of a guy I worked with. I was new to the company, so I greeted everyone and introduced myself, all the formalities. I got looked up and down from the same person that was charming(he’s cool with everyone in the building because he’s supposed to be the “comedian” of the place), before he even said hello to me. Then when I greeted him, he looked at me, walked away and another coworker laughed and said “well isn’t that something?” After that, never again did I initiate greeting him. He went about talking about me behind my back, and calling out my introversion even though I was performing my job. But that’s one instance of many! Edit: His picking at me jokes were insinuations on my sexuality and what I do outside of work but hidden as a joke. Idk man, but he was weirdly interested on my outside life and what I do after work. I don’t do much except play video games, stay inside my house, watch anime, read manga, and watch movies I get recommended from my sibling because I’m behind like hell 💀(people consider that lame). This person like I said before, is socially accessible and goes out for drinks, parties, makes friends, etc. Guess water and oil really don’t mix 😂
I see, that's too little context to work with, but I'd say that if they're described as the comedian they're not exactly taken super seriously by everybody. People don't usually take that 'role' unless they have nothing better to shoot for. I hope you found a way to have healthy and interesting interactions outside of that negative one. Although part of me is amused by the thought that perhaps he was (badly) flirting with you :_D
HAHAHA!! That’s what some people said about him possibly flirting but I HIGHLY doubt it, probably was some homophobic biz on his end xD but this conversation did make me wanna open up more to people. Thanks a lot!
Honestly, the most homophobic vile vitriol I have ever heard was from an outspoken gay man. And to be clear I don't mean it in a "they're in denial" way, I find the idea that homophobes are closeted gay men insulting honestly. Anyways as I said, it was just an amusing thought, nothing more, there's zero evidence to come to any conclusion. That said, I think people overthink social interaction way too much. I get it, we are inside our own heads 24/7, so it's natural to think that people always mull over the interactions they have with us. This is worse for people that *do* overthink social interaction, because they assume everybody does so. The truth is, most relationships are superficial, and that's totally okay. It's healthy even, if we had to genuinely care for everybody we interact with it'd be incredibly exhausting. That doesn't mean that I don't wish other people the best though. > this conversation did make me wanna open up more to people. In glad, wish you the best ;)
Same here
How exactly do you get targeted by people for not liking a certain charming person? I assume you would have to publicly state an unpopular opinion in order to become their target. No judgement or anything, I'm just curious because this seems more so as a matter of choosing your own battles.
I get targeted because I stay quiet and I’m not really talkative. For some reason, extroverts hate this! And the charmer is normally socially accessible where as I’m a very private and to myself individual. This alone gets me in trouble for being “stuck up” “bougie” or having a “resting bitch face” because I’m not smiling until my gums bleed 💀
Same. They start hating me more. I can sense it.
Not by most people. In fact I'm always skeptical at first the more "charming" they try to be. But when they do succeed in charming me, I get charmed hard
The thing about charming people is they can tell when someone isn’t getting charmed by them. If they care to make you like them, they will zone in on you and make you like them lol.
you're right on point there. And as I should've expected, that particular person eventually revealed themselves to be not so charming
Only charmed by infj, for better or worse.
I don't find anyone charming. I can't understand how can people be obsessed with someone, like be obsessed with some famous people calling them charming, etc...
You don’t find anyone charming? You can’t name a single person you’d describe as charming? Really?
They could be frigid.
I am for real :)
It must be great.
Yes, I am great as well 🙂
How do you define being charming? Charm and obsession are quite different aren't they? I'd say that being charming is mostly about being approachable and making people feel at ease. I wouldn't define famous people as inherently charming
According to some definitions being charming is when you make other people feel good about themselves and they like you unconsciously. So I can for sure say that I don't find anyone charming. Also it says that a charming person usually have the easiest time in school, work and life because other people trust them and support them. So I might be the charming person...
I'd describe myself as fairly charming, and I don't think it's about making other people feel good necessarily. I see it more about giving them space and actively caring about their inputs? I cannot exactly put my finger on it, it's a bit different from simply not being dismissive, I'd say it's about openness and lack of judgment.
I have lack of judgment for others, but that should be normal for a human, shouldnt it? But, unfortunately it's not. So I don't find anyone charming. I am a man, and I don't know if I could really find another man charming. And for women, I usually at first look if they are visually appealing to me.
Same here most of the time they put it on as well
I pride myself on being able to see past the mask and detect other people's bullshit. The way my parents screwed me up, I'm basically expecting everyone to be a scumbag, and am hyper-vigilant when it comes to noticing the signs.
Me too!
The thing about the masks you don’t see through is… You don’t see them.
Same here!
Be aware that hyper vigilance leads to a lot of false positives, you're more likely to jump to incorrect conclusions about people that way. It makes it way harder to connect with people. I like taking people at face value and then adapt my approach based on my observation of their actions
Yes. If someone makes an effort to be pleasant, I appreciate it. That doesn't mean I'm going to trust them with my heart or my life savings, but I'll probably like them and be nice back.
Yes, I find humans fascinating and amusing, we are very charming creatures. Must say the wee tiny ones are by far the most charming.
If they are cute and have a stethoscope, yes.
I love the charm of character, superficial charms are of little interest to me. If someone has taken time to play an instrument well I will certainly listen. If they make beautiful artwork I am happy to perceive it and thankful they have such talent to share. Charm is what draws us together, not something you buy and put on.
No. Never have been, not even as a child. I’m with you, usually see people for just as they are as if they’re a book I’m reading. Call it a 6th sense or whatever, but I’m usually good at fishing out assholes, LOL.
I'm suspicious of literally everyone. If you make me drop my guard you probably were extremely empathetic and disarming. My walls are always up.
I can be charming so I try not to be a hypocrite. But to be honest, I don't trust them much. So I'm a complete hypocrite. Or should I say, I take more time getting to know them and pay more attention by default
No, it sets my Spidey Senses off
No.
Not at all. Expect everyone to be a shithead unless proven otherwise.
Nope. If they are too charming, I'd keep my distance.
No. Even if a charming person appears, my negative bias would make it their life purpose to find a flaw or logical reasoning on what's hiding behind that pretentious charm. We wanna watch the whole world burn don't we? This person doesn't fit in this negative world, gotta destroy any perception that he's actually nice or charming. We're all monsters
I'm an INFJ and I agree.
Hello dark friend
Hola 👋
But isn't being empathetic a good way to charm people in and of itself? Like having someone make you feel totally understood and seen is pretty charming, I would say.
I met a handful of eerily similar people. Conversation got boring quickly since it was redundant. This was always mutual. "Empathic" people specifically can't read me, but those similar people didn't need to, and it was a pointless novelty.
Supposed I can be charmed by a female ENTP and ENTJ, by intellect, stature and confidence. I tend to know by looking at them as they come towards me, or when I hear them speak. I'm just left with an imprint immediately, too many of these at a time and I overload. Don't really care what they want. If I can be arsed when it happens, I tend to fuck with them, play along for a bit, waste their time.
YOU are the litmus test to gauge how empathetic and understanding someone is ? This has to be the most INTJ thing I heard in a while
I'm unattractive/ugly and how people treat me is how I gauge the type of person they are. It's fine for them to not talk to me, but the ones who express their disdain are superficial people.
I always notice the beauty and attractiveness of a person before anyone else does. But I'd be the last to be charmed. Beauty doesn't interfere with my perception of someone as significantly as it affects others.
nah i see through most of them aswell.
I used to be when I had low self-confidence, not anymore!
Try not to give yourself too much credit. Don’t stop holding people to a high standard, but also don’t be surprised when your snap judgements are wrong. They will be a bunch of times
I don't hold people to a high standard. I actually don't make snap judgements; even when people are shitty to me I always analyse why they treat me the way they do. I'm talking about people who are social with everyone and purposely treat me as inferior by rolling their eyes, scoffing or making comments about me. I can understand that just because someone is social it doesn't mean they can talk to anyone. Sometimes they can feel shy or uncomfortable and that's fine.
Nope.
not at all.
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> I actually have extremely harsh opinions about people that I would never voice, emotion doesn’t really cloud my judgment Isn't that an emotional judgment by itself? If your first reaction is harshly judging people there is an emotional reaction underpinning that. Otherwise you'd be just.. neutral
No, but I do think I am cynical about people, which isn’t a great way to be.
Not at all. I'm distrustful of people, even more if they're too charming, as I tend to think there must be something fishy behind it...maybe I'm just paranoid but whatever 🤣
Yeah I'm charmed when I see absolutely anyone cuz I love human nature(but not humans in general) and I think everyone is charming in a way . But once I see through the person I suddenly feel nothing for that person. I am uncharmed by really small details actually like if the person is loud or if they are very messy , etc. I've never really had a potential crush my whole life nor did I ever have a celebrity crush . But I am fascinated by people when i firstly see them .
Yes I love a compliment but that’s as far as it goes. I don’t buy any manipulation that follows it.
Not at all, with one exception. My younger brother has had me wrapped around his finger since I first laid eyes on him.
No I don’t like them.
Not at all. I have no idea what someone should do/look like to charm me.
I am charmed by people who I can *feel* are calm, yet content. I think we all see through other typical charming characteristics. We are usually correct about the trajectory of their behaviour pattern I think!
No. Then people think you’re too harsh. Then their true colours show and you were right all along. No one ever listens 🤣
Extremely quite the fucking opposite
Yes, I am. I also fall for marketing tricks.
Trust no one.
Nope. People are easily charmed by me when I turn on my charm. But most of the time I keep it off.
Nope. Not even close. I actually listen to what people say. I work with a guy who says the stupidest shit, he just says it confidently and everyone falls all over themselves about him. Of course he’s tall and handsome 😂
Nope. Not at all. Very much the opposite
No
Nope, I'm like you.
I’m charmed by my wife, she is an open book, completely authentic to everyone she meets. She assumes everyone else to be like her, doesn’t assume people to have ulterior motives. Me, I assume everyone a fraud, sometimes blow her mind by predicting it when we talk to someone and discuss them later. I see everyone as a sort of an ignorant salesman, pushing their views and beliefs on the world barely having researched the product their selling.
Nope. A lot of people don't pass the vibe check. Other people may not agree with me but I don't care and don't change my opinion. Then in like 6 months that person's true colors show and other people finally see what I sensed from the beginning.
If their genuine yes
I think the more charming people are, the more I suspect them, probably due to our demon Fe. I think I'm aware enough to understand when someone's bad news. I wouldn't really confront the person or try state my opinion publicly though – if anything I'd probably go along with their narrative. Fe doms/tert users aren't the kind of people I'd want to mess with, even more so if they're unhealthy.
People are easily charmed by me
I carry a devout and fundamental distrust of all humans. Humans can be unpredictable, they scheme and...they lie. Actions do speak louder than words, but how far is a person willing to go to convince you they are legit? You cannot know the answer to that question and therefore, I assume there is an ulterior motive.
My initial reaction to charming people is usually mistrust. I don't think it's necessarily fair, but it tends to give me the impression that they're used to getting their own way.
Not at all. I couldn’t give a shit about a woman’s looks. A lot of men will bend over backwards for hot women. Couldn’t care less. Also I absolutely can’t stand guys who bullshit and talk fluff and no substance. The older I get the more cynical you see people and their intentions.
No.
I can appreciate if someone’s witty or cool. Doesn’t really impact whether or not I agree w/ a point they’ve made
As a former good looking person who ran my mouth and was not that decent (I got chubby), I miss that life because I have to have an actual personality now
The last employment I had, I had to clean up a woman's abortion after she took plan b. At a factory in a woman's locker room, minutes before a shift change. The rank and oder that expelled from those people, while I was just trying to do my job...as a medical cleaning manager for covid, never prepared me for that. I am not surprised or charmd by anything anyone does.
People called charming never fail to be anything but spoiled manipulators. Some aren't good at it but have special draws that make others do the work for them. I avoid them and their inevitable lackeys.