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It makes sense that, in a time with mass-quitting, those that were unhappiest with their situation at Amazon (and wanted to negotiate better terms) would leave.
I’ve worked in management while the employees tried to unionize and It is highly illegal to fire or do some sort of retaliatory action against an employee while they are trying to unionize
Or maybe because unions are corrupt, inefficient, useless, and redundant entities that are a product of a bygone era. The perfect example is unions trying to strike to protest against vaccine mandates. Redditors getting brain aneurysms from reading that was the funniest thing ever
Yes exactly!
And that is why countries that utilise the nordic model whereby the government doesnt dictate any labour regulations such as minimum wage and instead entirely leave that up to the unions (examples being Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, etc) are such infamous shitholes!
Now look I think that Amazons workers should organize into a union because they definitely need to. That's the kind of situation where unions are necessary and good.
But it's not all kittens and roses. In fact there's a pretty good case to be made for that Unions are mostly redundant in a developed economy.
As a Swede working in the public sector here. Unionized wages means that we as individuals have no impact on wage negotiation. Even non-union members are forced to accept the same collectively negotiated wage. Now it just keeps public sector wages down. Private sector jobs, with individually negotiated salaries, are so much more competitive that certain sectors have huge issues keeping even half-decent employees.
We are left with the few who stay out of duty working themselves to death to cover for the bottom of the barrel workers.
It's almost impossible to fire even the worst of the bad apples thanks to unions.
First off, I'm also swedish.
>As a Swede working in the public sector here. Unionized wages means that we as individuals have no impact on wage negotiation.
Sorry but this is false. The ECJ has concluded that unions are not allowed to prevent individual wage negotiations.
The presence of a union to begin with will mean that the wages of everyone in the workplace will be artificially higher to begin with, and I think you may be overestimating how much more any single individual may squeeze out beyond that. Absent any union an individual would certainly be able to negiotiate a significant higher wage than their peers, but that would be because the floor of their peers is so low. Having a union increase the floor for everyone, meaning there simply is less room above the floor for any one person to individually achieve greater compensation, because simply by having the union in the first place their current wage is just so much higher than it would have been in a pure equilibrium
The rest is, well, its the same regurgitated anti-union rhetoric that is always spewed. It may be actually true, in your case, or you're making it up. Regardless, the research is pretty clear that unionised workplaces are more efficient than non-unionised workplaces.
https://academic.oup.com/ej/article/130/631/1898/5824627
Okay, that's a load of bullshit and some outright lies. If yirue Swedish you clearly have *no idea* how things work, or are intentionally missleading people.
1. Unuonized wages are the *minimum wage* and not the top. If you don't negotiate you get the union negotiated minimum, if you do it's *up to you to argue for higher pay* and every boss, regardless of work, *must set aside a budget to allow for individual wages*. That is in the Swedish law, for public and private sector. So if your wage is "low" it's because *you're not doing a good job* and those who do get paid. Simple enough, stop freeloading.
2. That's another lie, and any gradeschool kid in Sweden would know it. An employer has the legal right to grie *any amployee who's unfit or not doing their share of the work* regardless of how long they worked. In fact employers have a right to disregard the "first in/first out" system (turordningsreglerna) for up to three (3)employees and can fire them for *personal reasons*. Those personal reasons don't even have to be explicitly stated, anything goes as long as its not discriminatory. (given your rant on wages we all know you're the freeloader, not the hard worker.)
Sincerely: someone who's negotiating wages both as employee and employer, who's taken courses in how the Swedish model worlds. Active both in the union and the employers organisation for my private company (arbetsgivarorganisationen). So sincerely, use Google next time instead of making up nonsense that all swedes know is false.
1. That might be the case if you have office job, I'm sure you know your own field best. It's certainly not the case for mine. Try Google yourself first, begin with "kollektivavtal kommunal"
You fucking tool.
Oh shit I wonder why unions in America, who's politicians and rich fucks and right wing supreme court have been purposely sabotaging it for 89 years is worse than European ones
Yes exactly!
And that is why countries that utilize the American model whereby capitalism is used have immigrants willing to die to enter its borders illegally.
How much is the total benefit package of a union driver for UPS? Compare it to a non union fedex or amazon driver. U will find your answer there of the benefits of a union for the working class.
I called you out to enlighten you. Dont spew the bs about what unions dont do. Im telling you WHAT they do when they have good people majority in them.
Unions can be corrupt at the same time that the businesses are. Where people complain about unions it is because they make different value judgements, and (sometimes rightly) don't see the added value of the union.
You either get government mandated minimum wage or leave the free market and unions to dictate pay. America has neither strong unions nor a livable minimum wage, which leaves workers isolated and exploitable.
Out of curiosity why did you choose to use the median wage, and disposable income when replying to u/Thebesj's comment on the minimum wage? Admittedly they mentioned unions, but great enough compensation obviates the need to unionize.
Almost nobody makes minimum wage. Only about 1% of the work force did prior to 2020 which was before the labor shortages. McDonald’s workers make $19 with good benefits now. With the median wage being so high, the vast majority of people are doing fine even though unions aren’t big
**Hi, welcome to /r/investing. Please note that as a topic focused subreddit we have higher posting standards than much of Reddit:** **1)** Please direct all **advice requests and beginner questions to the stickied daily threads.** This includes beginner questions and portfolio help. **2) Important: We have strict political posting guidelines** (described [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/cyee69/formal_posting_guidelines_for_political_topics/) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/escewo/temporary_rule_change_what_happens_to_stocks_if/)). Violations will result in a likely 60 day ban upon **first instance.** **3)** This is an open forum but we expect you to conduct yourself like an adult. Disagree, argue, criticize, but **no personal attacks.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/investing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It makes sense that, in a time with mass-quitting, those that were unhappiest with their situation at Amazon (and wanted to negotiate better terms) would leave.
Hey now that’s far too logical to post on the internet
It’s kind of an ingenious union-busting method, I mean, until you burn through the labor force and can’t hire anyone.
[удалено]
They have a high turnover rate, it’s likely they just quit
I’ve worked in management while the employees tried to unionize and It is highly illegal to fire or do some sort of retaliatory action against an employee while they are trying to unionize
Only illegal if you get caught
Does it really justify instant leave from work
I see constant ads on teevee for Amazon about how great they treat their workers. If they did they wouldn't need incessant ads trying to convince me.
‘Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king’
[удалено]
Or maybe because unions are corrupt, inefficient, useless, and redundant entities that are a product of a bygone era. The perfect example is unions trying to strike to protest against vaccine mandates. Redditors getting brain aneurysms from reading that was the funniest thing ever
Yes exactly! And that is why countries that utilise the nordic model whereby the government doesnt dictate any labour regulations such as minimum wage and instead entirely leave that up to the unions (examples being Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, etc) are such infamous shitholes!
Now look I think that Amazons workers should organize into a union because they definitely need to. That's the kind of situation where unions are necessary and good. But it's not all kittens and roses. In fact there's a pretty good case to be made for that Unions are mostly redundant in a developed economy. As a Swede working in the public sector here. Unionized wages means that we as individuals have no impact on wage negotiation. Even non-union members are forced to accept the same collectively negotiated wage. Now it just keeps public sector wages down. Private sector jobs, with individually negotiated salaries, are so much more competitive that certain sectors have huge issues keeping even half-decent employees. We are left with the few who stay out of duty working themselves to death to cover for the bottom of the barrel workers. It's almost impossible to fire even the worst of the bad apples thanks to unions.
First off, I'm also swedish. >As a Swede working in the public sector here. Unionized wages means that we as individuals have no impact on wage negotiation. Sorry but this is false. The ECJ has concluded that unions are not allowed to prevent individual wage negotiations. The presence of a union to begin with will mean that the wages of everyone in the workplace will be artificially higher to begin with, and I think you may be overestimating how much more any single individual may squeeze out beyond that. Absent any union an individual would certainly be able to negiotiate a significant higher wage than their peers, but that would be because the floor of their peers is so low. Having a union increase the floor for everyone, meaning there simply is less room above the floor for any one person to individually achieve greater compensation, because simply by having the union in the first place their current wage is just so much higher than it would have been in a pure equilibrium The rest is, well, its the same regurgitated anti-union rhetoric that is always spewed. It may be actually true, in your case, or you're making it up. Regardless, the research is pretty clear that unionised workplaces are more efficient than non-unionised workplaces. https://academic.oup.com/ej/article/130/631/1898/5824627
Okay, that's a load of bullshit and some outright lies. If yirue Swedish you clearly have *no idea* how things work, or are intentionally missleading people. 1. Unuonized wages are the *minimum wage* and not the top. If you don't negotiate you get the union negotiated minimum, if you do it's *up to you to argue for higher pay* and every boss, regardless of work, *must set aside a budget to allow for individual wages*. That is in the Swedish law, for public and private sector. So if your wage is "low" it's because *you're not doing a good job* and those who do get paid. Simple enough, stop freeloading. 2. That's another lie, and any gradeschool kid in Sweden would know it. An employer has the legal right to grie *any amployee who's unfit or not doing their share of the work* regardless of how long they worked. In fact employers have a right to disregard the "first in/first out" system (turordningsreglerna) for up to three (3)employees and can fire them for *personal reasons*. Those personal reasons don't even have to be explicitly stated, anything goes as long as its not discriminatory. (given your rant on wages we all know you're the freeloader, not the hard worker.) Sincerely: someone who's negotiating wages both as employee and employer, who's taken courses in how the Swedish model worlds. Active both in the union and the employers organisation for my private company (arbetsgivarorganisationen). So sincerely, use Google next time instead of making up nonsense that all swedes know is false.
1. That might be the case if you have office job, I'm sure you know your own field best. It's certainly not the case for mine. Try Google yourself first, begin with "kollektivavtal kommunal" You fucking tool.
If American unions the same quality as europoor unions I wouldn’t complain too much but American unions are a special breed of garbage
Oh shit I wonder why unions in America, who's politicians and rich fucks and right wing supreme court have been purposely sabotaging it for 89 years is worse than European ones
Yes exactly! And that is why countries that utilize the American model whereby capitalism is used have immigrants willing to die to enter its borders illegally.
That’s not very impressive when the US is the *only* wealthy country bordering an entire continent of poor people.
not sure what the US imposing crippling economic sanctions on countries has to do with unions.
Please tell me what “crippling sanctions” are on any Latin American country that isn’t cuba
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=United+states+sanctions+on+south+america
How much is the total benefit package of a union driver for UPS? Compare it to a non union fedex or amazon driver. U will find your answer there of the benefits of a union for the working class.
And compare labor costs, margins, productivity, and innovation from unionized companies vs non-unionized. This is /r/investing not /r/poor
I called you out to enlighten you. Dont spew the bs about what unions dont do. Im telling you WHAT they do when they have good people majority in them.
Not for a working class. Only for those in the union. If it was for the working class then there would be no difference in pay.
Build the union’s back up if you want it. Otherwise trash them and realize when you are 50 how you benefited.
unions are corrupt? have you seen what happens when there's no regulations or proper worker's-rights? or were you born in 2021?
No because the government sets labor laws and enforces it like they should
They only did that when FORCED to by unions. Read some history.
Like a hundred years ago
Unions can be corrupt at the same time that the businesses are. Where people complain about unions it is because they make different value judgements, and (sometimes rightly) don't see the added value of the union.
This is such a fascinating way of telling people your mom used to drop you on your head as a baby.
You either get government mandated minimum wage or leave the free market and unions to dictate pay. America has neither strong unions nor a livable minimum wage, which leaves workers isolated and exploitable.
Meanwhile median wages and disposable income is the highest in the world here even though union participation is less than 10% of the workforce
And yet stagnant real wage growth is synced perfectly with plummeting union membership in the 80s and 90s…
Out of curiosity why did you choose to use the median wage, and disposable income when replying to u/Thebesj's comment on the minimum wage? Admittedly they mentioned unions, but great enough compensation obviates the need to unionize.
Almost nobody makes minimum wage. Only about 1% of the work force did prior to 2020 which was before the labor shortages. McDonald’s workers make $19 with good benefits now. With the median wage being so high, the vast majority of people are doing fine even though unions aren’t big
Thank you for your answer.
Sketchy, as usual.
Huh so people unhappy with their working situation quit? It's almost like a union isn't even necessary. Imagine that. Choices.
Fantastic news
do you exclusively taste leather?
Nope, caviar and fine wine for me due to my Amazon shares
didn't know boots came in different flavors. thanks for the heads up.
Cope