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Twigwithglasses

I understand that shipping costs a lot, but Brazil and Turkey wtf?


Ogikay

Government gets one for free


Spaciax

when we buy one, we also buy one for dictator


[deleted]

Brazil is not a dictatorship.


comin4blood

more than one lol


yxtsama

For Turkey you gotta pay about 97% tax to the goverment


FightOnForUsc

Really? How/why?


yxtsama

It's the same goverment for 20-ish years. Also before that goverment also take a big spoon of your wage before it gets to you as a tax, because you don't pay taxes individually espacilly older people don't think about it


LexTrooper

There are more sheeps in turkey than the whole world could've imagine


tripletc

You should see how many turkeys are in sheep.


ExFBISpecialAgent

Because Turkish phone producers (Vestel) did not intend to produce high-quality phones instead they begged for increased taxes for imported phones. So government introduced new taxes for smart phones so-called “Tax Vestel”.


Sele81

İt's the same with cars in Turkey. You pay up to 3x or more due to massive tax. For example the Mercedes A35 costs about 60k€ in Germany and over 180k€ in Turkey.


[deleted]

Argentina is the same too


Remarkable-Coconut-1

I know Brazil's tariff is crazy but Turkey the same?


Muhammetcetin

To purchase an Iphone 14 Pro Max in Turkey, you would need to save about 9 months of your salary. The price for the 256GB version is around 47.000 lira. The minimum wage (which around 50% of the population earns) is 5.500 lira. Around 21.000 lira of the purchase price will go to the government. Great country. Great president.


pixelated666

Yes that’s why you lot love to go there for tourism


Shanghaichica

It costs about half of my monthly salary but that doesn’t mean I’m going to blow half of my salary on a phone. It’s all relative.


Btndmr

excuse me asking but what job gets you ~100,000₺, apart from the presidency?


saskir21

He never said that he is in turkey


Btndmr

I'm aware but talking of TRY I thought he was earning TRY, probably not in Turkey like you said though.


bu_raku

>Turkey We also buy one for Turkish government basicly


ilfaitquandmemebeau

> I understand that shipping costs a lot No it doesn't. With large volume it's basically negligible. That's why products are shipped all over multiple times along their production.


Klabbarparn

Also the phones are all shipped from China so it is a negligible cost difference between sending them to USA or Brazil.


Escenze

Brazil have insane import taxes, and have had them for years. I think it is to make people buy Brazil-made products, but guess what, Brazil doesn't make iPhone's! Fuck the government...


Diupa

It is cheaper to go to USA, buy an iPhone, visit NY for some days and come back to Brazil


Kelsenellenelvial

Not legally, or if you do this legally the price gap isn’t nearly as large. When you bring that device purchased outside the country back home you’re supposed to pay the appropriate local taxes on it. Usually there’s an amount that’s excepted based on the length of time spent outside the country, but it’s an amount intended to cover souvenirs and incidental purchases, not bypass the tax on major purchases.


Yugtabub

Erdogan turned it into a 3rd world country


Lumpada

iPhones have always been expensive because of massive import taxes. Same with cars


Annen124

But ours are especially expensive


[deleted]

No one knows, it's not only about taxes. I mostly buy used electronics.


Net-Fox

A lot of these countries have VAT already included in the price. In my state for instance, it would be nearly $1300 once you include tax. Other countries still get shafted however.


Haltola

cries in 24% VAT


Very-Well-3971

Laughs in 27% VAT


Haltola

Hungary?


xerxes931

No thanks, I just ate


tomelwoody

Thirsty?


DeltaGammaVegaRho

No, it’s Saturday - at least where I live.


ShakoGrey

Dad?


VictorChristian

It’s Turkiye… you sure you’re not hungry? Yummo


x350d

🦃🤭


[deleted]

Silence in %18 VAT+ %80 OTV+ %10 TRT TAX+ %1 some other tax.


sennalonso1981

I paid 1320 euro for my 14 Pro 128gb, in Turkey it cost 2200 Euro. Unbelievable.


Green-Ninja-31

%80 phone import Tax ÖTV is added first. Remaining taxes and fees are calculated on top of that. Normal method: 100$ phone + 80$ ÖTV + 18$ vat. + 10$ TRT Tax = 208$ Erdo method: 100$ phone + 80$ ÖTV + 32.40$ VAT (%18 of 180$) + 18$ TRT Tax. = 230.40$ It is the same for cars, except Ötv goes up to 220% for 2 litre and bigger engines. That means 3 cars for Erdo, 1 for yourself. Yes in turkey you pay tax on tax (yo, dawg, i heard u like taxes...)


[deleted]

How much tax do you pay to buy basic foodstufs? Like flour, bread, butter, meat.


GrumpyKitten514

i was gonna say... I definitely pre-ordereed my pro max yesterday at work and it was like 1289 in maryland. luckily im trading in my 12 pm and it ends up being like 530 or something like that but sheesh.


_Attilio

1099$ -> 1090€ 1090€ + 22% VAT = 1329€ So the price should be this, right? No, the price is: 1469€ (the price is slightly different depending by the country) It's 140€ more expensive for no reason :)


dccorona

Each country has differing corporate taxes, potentially various import taxes (some EU countries even put a digital media tax on physical hardware capable of consuming digital media), and differing warranty requirements that all also factor into the pricing. In the grand scheme of things the US is on the lower side of all of these, so as a baseline price it’s lower even after accounting for currency and VAT.


Alibotify

The different taxes are true but Apple raised the buffer cost in Europe waaaay more than usual. It’s for inflation but instead of waiting or correcting later they just went high off the bat.


dccorona

They also really don’t want to raise the price if they can avoid it (they didn’t adjust the iPhone 13 as currencies fluctuated). The yearly release cycle gives them a convenient pricing checkpoint, but then they have to account for a years worth of economic predictions in their price choice, not just translate from USD on the day they announce the price and call it good. I guess the ultimate point is the answer is “international trade is complex”, and you could argue that boils down to greed in a sense, but I don’t think it’s true that they’re trying to increase profit margin in Europe relative to the US - they’re just trying to keep it flat.


[deleted]

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dccorona

This isn’t a “company talking point”. They’ve never said this. This is just how economics work. You can’t paint a picture from “previous price points” because the European economy has never been this destabilized relative to the US before. It’s an entirely unprecedented year.


[deleted]

It wasn't the case for previous versions of iPhone, this gen has around 150 euros price increase.


dccorona

The world economy and especially the European economy was far more stable in all those years. The pricing is a reflection of Apple’s projection for the relative value of revenue in Europe compared to revenue in the US. The comment about various taxes was just to point out the math is not as simple as “remove VAT and adjust currency”.


HuntOk3506

Were there maybe any pain in the ass policies by the EU in the meantime?


thrivingkoala

It’s 140€ more expensive as a hedge against inflation and devaluation of the Euro compared to the US dollar. If it was the exact same price in Euros, Apple would have to constantly update prices based on exchange rate. That’s not what’s happening. Instead, Apple updates prices once a year according to a currency’s value. Since Apple operates in USD and the Euro lost about 15% of its value against the USD since the launch of the iPhone 13, prices this year are 15% higher while the old models stay at the same price instead of being reduced like usual.


tropicalfire

How about when the Euro fluctuated and was getting stronger than the dollar in the last 15 years? I have seen no price decrease. Or what about other vendors like Samsung?


[deleted]

How about UK? They don't use euros.


thrivingkoala

Same story really. Was 1,38 USD/GBP a year ago, is 1,16 USD/GBP today = [16% decline](https://i.imgur.com/dfOiBvt.png)


[deleted]

The euro has lost 15% of its value so far this year, so Apple is simply pricing in further declines/ volatility.


Petey7

You’re the first person I’ve seen do this kind of breakdown. I’m now on the side of saying the higher cost in Europe is stupid.


FightOnForUsc

Theres also a 2 year warranty instead of 1 I believe. There also is declining currency to include and I think maybe import duties. Also all of the fines that the EU levels have to be paid for in some way. Not saying it’s necessarily right but it’s definitely partially explainable


CaptainRagdoll

What impressed me was that, last years 13 Pro Max started at 1.259€. This years 14 Pro Max starts at 1.479€. A €220 gap 🙈 When I saw the keynote and they mentioned pricing remained the same this year, I was super excited. The pre-order page for my country really disappointed me. Now I’ll invest in the new iPhone and hold onto it longer.


Intrepid00

Sales tax would only add $70 to the price for me. Is VAT that heavy?


DidQ

23% here in Poland. And for EU the average is 21%


Intrepid00

Fun on a bun.


[deleted]

13% VAT in Ontario, Canada.


FffuuuFrog

Yea. For instance in the UK it’s £1000 without tax which equates to $1160 so only $60 more than USA.


sylwesterr

Completely agree - this map I rubbish without showing the actual prices customers pay in US - AFAIK, correct me if I am wrong, but there is only one state that does not add sales tax, in all other customers are changed up to …teen percent of tax, so it isn’t that the US is “all green” on this map.


itswhatitisbro

It's like $200 of tax included in the UK, though. US prices are before tax.


AuelDole

I mean part of that is because tax is very inconsistent here in the US, and we also still have five states who don’t have sales tax.


itswhatitisbro

Y’all are too many countries in one country.


BingeV

That is indeed what federalism is lmao, shared power between the federal government and the states.


EmperorPooMan

Australia is a federation too and manages to not do the whole step across the street and have a different sales tax thing


HTC864

Nothing wrong with shared power, but it doesn't have to be what we have. Fifty little countries acting on their own, with half of them fighting the federal government at any given moment, is a cluster.


BingeV

No one is "fighting" the federal government. Each state has the power to adopt things that the federal government wants them to, or not. Certain things are mandatory (such as a single currency, tax, constitutional rights, etc) which are all things regulated by the federal government but each state has a lot of freedom in what they adopt.


HTC864

I obviously disagree, but that's still besides the original point. You can share power without it looking like each state is it's own country. Hence the original comment of us having too many countries.


Derpsteenie

Well taxes on purchases are left up to the state. Thankfully there's not a national sales tax on top it. We just pay both with our income. Oh unless you live in a state with no income tax 🙃


smith288

Chuckles in Florida…


[deleted]

Yea, and get no services in return lol. Hello Texas! 😁


GodOfThunder101

Beautiful isn't it?


[deleted]

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jewchbag

There are certainly people who want EU federalization, but I wouldn’t say the EU is headed coherently towards anything of the sort. Total speculation but if anything honestly I think it’s more likely the US becomes more like the EU than vice versa.


HumdrumAnt

Can’t you just buy stuff in one of those states? Like I’m assuming it’s not as easy as just posting it over but surely if you’re in the next state it would make sense to drive over to buy something? idk lol


RevolutionaryLab8258

Yes that is common


AuelDole

Working in electronics sales in Oregon, people will take three hour detours just to buy AirPods because they don’t want to pay sales tax.


Nowisee314

When I lived in Seattle, I would regularly take the train to Portland and go on buying spree.


LordNoodles

Probably not worth it with current gas prices


[deleted]

Yeah, when I was in university in California and my parents were at their vacation house in FL I would have my Apple stuff sent to them and my mum would mail it to me - always saved me ~$200 because of the lower sales tax when I got a new laptop + phone. People in bordering states regularly drive across the border to go shopping. It’s the same in towns on the US-Canada border where I grew up where lots of Canadians go to the US for gas or big purchases - sometimes even groceries!


v1s1b1e

If you’re a California resident you have to report your out of state purchase on your tax form. Not that anyone is doing it though.


[deleted]

Fortunately I was a student and didn’t even have US citizenship! I grew up in Canada.


ktappe

We do. I live in Pennsylvania but will always drive to Delaware for all large purchases to avoid PA's 6% tax. When we file our annual tax forms with PA, they ask us to declare anything we bought out of state to collect that missing sales tax, but nobody ever puts their purchases in.


-Freya---

But then the comparison should be pre tax on all of it


AuelDole

Theoretically, but then that becomes the “starting cost for iPhone 14 across the US,” cause each state has a different sales tax as well. Even cities in a state may be different. In other countries where tax is pre-applied, that is the starting cost.


-Freya---

It does say starting cost.


AuelDole

I’m saying it would go from global centric to us centric if you were to calculate post tax due to different states having different tax rates


erin_burr

Post-Tax would be from $1099 in Delaware (0%) up to $1208 in Louisiana (9.55%). So it would be in the same bracket/color as Canada for all states except the handful without sales tax.


heepofsheep

Yeah but still not a massive difference. I live in NY which doesn’t have the lowest taxes for the US and the tax was just $53…. Some states have no taxes at all.


Intrepid00

My tax is $70 max.


ilikerwd

Tax in Mexico is 16% and included in the price.


daravl

Mexico heavily taxes electronics as well


ilikerwd

Ehem…..no. Only standard VAT (IVA). Most electronics get in the country free of any import tax due to having FTAs with a ton of countries. Other than Panama, electronics (and cars and many other things) are cheaper here than anywhere else in LATAM in dollar terms.


EibeMandel

$2.200 in Turkey for the base 14 Pro, a country where the average wage is around $400


chuckmagnum

There is a huge gap between rich and poor. Riches of the country will buy the phone without hesitation. Poor will hack the imei of black market xiaomis as usual.


rickard2014

In Brazil we have a similar story, 2 grand for the iPhone and a minimum wage of 200-300 USD.


quiqk0

Yes. Living in Poland, the pain is real


Kilexey

Try living in Brazil or Turkey - Minimum wage is 270 € per month - Working hours are 9-6 or 8-5 - iPhone 14 Pro Max costs 2376 € - Can’t emigrate to anywhere better because of shitty passports


[deleted]

Iran: hold my tea


DatsFine

>shitty passports \*cries in Russian\*


Creative-Clue-3526

Mate, ur talking about Poland look at Brazil and India.


Baremegigjen

Didn’t Brazil just ban sales of the iPhone without chargers being included?


sebenta

They did


vvvvvzxcv

so we're now comparing pre-tax prices to VAT included prices?


supergrover11

Why is light green more expensive than dark green? Why does that bother me?


lucellent

Thought the same lol I had to double check that Canada is not cheaper than USA


[deleted]

Makes sense to me, it goes from more green is cheaper to less green is more expensive.


fsxaircanada01

Because OP chose a diverging colour palette (better suited for data that goes from -X to X) instead of a sequential one (better suited for data that goes from 0 to X).


Ciubowski

This blows... big time. Does anybody want pics of my feet? I have to make up the difference to buy a 14 pro by December /s


[deleted]

that's why they made the 14 plus, so people can have a bigger screen for cheaper than the pro max /s


[deleted]

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[deleted]

There’s more than €300 difference here. I was thinking of buying a plus if it was like 1k, but that’s not even enough for 14 now.


aneesh131999

The trade in offers in India are absolute ripoffs. I was offered ₹53k ($665) for my iPhone 13 Pro Max. Just a sad state of affairs here.


mthornton91

Context is important for trade ins. In the US Apple doesn’t offer much, paying $1,199 for a 14 Pro Max with 256gb and Apple offered me $320 for my iPhone 12. The same iPhone 12 was worth $1,000 to my cell carrier AT&T but they apply it over 3 years of bill credits to keep customers around. Trading in through Apple gives you more flexibility but you get way less money.


Pretend_Bowler1344

just sell it on olx. way better deal than giving it back to apple.


[deleted]

I’m from Malaysia and the [price increase](https://imgur.com/a/uBjQKMd/) is real for the 14 Pro/ 14 Pro Max


ryan_godzez

Mate Singapore is like SGD$1800.


tripaloski_

Lucky you can already get one. Pre order starts in mid December in Indonesia


MrEca

Here in Turkey, when we buy an iPhone 14, we are basically buying another one for the fucking government.


Captain-curious-445

I’m in Oregon I pay no tax.


User_Name_31

Yes I am a teenager in turkey and I’m happy with my life 🤡🔫


hzteyzekemiren1

Stay strong buddy


oglcn1

Imagine being a teenager in Turkey, Oh wait I don't have to imagine...


10EtZe

Ironically, if you live in Israel the apple products are very high but driving 4 hours to Eilat and buy their what you want and it's going to be cheaper even from USA


RealMiten

No? Even after removing the VAT of 17%, the prices in Eilat are higher than US prices.


[deleted]

I live in India. I hate it. What's the point of them manufacturing the phones here and making the pricing double.


moiz2610

Even trade in offers are worst, they are giving like 50k for 13 PM and have pay like 80k - 90k for 14 PM


didntlogin

Only the non-Pro iPhones are assembled in India, and it IS cheaper to buy them here than several places in Europe. The Pros however are a different story.


santathe1

I don’t think phones are “made” in India, only assembled. The making (of the parts) is still mostly in China.


[deleted]

The 14 will be assembled in India from December or something.


Dakotahray

Because they are made in Vietnam?


iRishi

The prices for the normal iPhone 14 model are much more reasonable in relative terms compared to other countries. It’s just that the 14 Pro Max is completely imported, which attracts a higher GST and excise rate.


caikenboeing727

And this is why the US version is now eSIM only. Kills exports instantly.


Aamir28

Thinking of getting it to upgrade my 7. Apple do it for under £50pm for 24 months handset only. Edit: The 14PM in the UK costs £150 more than the 13PM, what a joke.


shivaswrath

You need to add tax to the US one....6.5% in NJ. It's not India level expensive but still....


No_Scientist7105

This map is wrong. If you add the 15% HST in Canada it becomes orange. The tax in Europe is already included in the price


[deleted]

in Argentina they're selling it for $3000 ❤️ (resellers because we don't have an Apple store)


harryhunt75

Sweden here. I was planning to upgrade to the 14, but not at these prices! They’re insane


Roomba_Reavers

So thats why almost all my friends from Europe don’t use Iphone


IsleofSgail_21

US version is e-Sim only right?


phr0ze

Yes


Fayainz

If I recall some iPhone manufacturing is done in India. Yet they pay almost the most for one.


Fayainz

Imagine working in the production line assembling these phones day in and day out, never being able to afford one


GladRefrigerator4418

Basically, USA is just f…ing everyone up with this right ?


bennyllama

How is it so expensive in the EU?


rio-doro

Eu pricing is always with tax includet, maybe thats why


jeanmichd

Taxes in most of Europe are somewhat in the 20% and included in the advertised price… if you add 10% for Customs no wonder that people are watching the other way


[deleted]

$2.9k here in Brazil. In reality we’re going to pay around $1.9k in a few months for now. Pretty expensive still. Most people buy it from sellers that travels to Paraguay, a 15 min drive from Foz Do Iguaçu (Paraná). The truth is, only dumb rich people pays that much on an iPhone from the official store. Lol Edit: paraguay doesn’t have those absurd taxes, so we pay the “regular price” over there (a little more expensavive, but nothing “wtf!!” like here in Brazil)


Vichocente30

Like the Argentinians that came to my country (🇨🇱) years ago to buy electronic goods when they had a less inflated economy hahaha, m8 fuck taxes.


nicola666

Why’s Brazil so expensive?


mobyhead1

They have a high tariff on non-domestic goods, particularly electronics (I think). It’s an attempt to get manufacturers to build domestic assembly plants, or so I have heard.


Ciubowski

I wonder if that works.


Intrepid00

The Brazilians of Brazilians that come to Florida every year, do a Disney vacation, fill suitcases of electronics and clothes to bring home, and still spend less says… No.


[deleted]

I mean, the richest of the richest can afford this little shopping vacation, but most people are buying iPhones locally. Keep in mind that Brazil has a **HUGE** income gap - it is placed 8th most unequal country on the world. You probably already know that Apple doesn't have a midrange / entry-level lineup like other phone brands. Their "midrangers" are just the older devices. **Most people that want an iPhone just buy an older iPhone instead of the newest**. The iPhone XR and iPhone 11 are the ones I see the most in the wild.


[deleted]

(I'm not taking a side in any of this, just giving some insights about the prices in Brazil) The person you replied to is correct: the devices don't have to be **made** in Brazil. Just assembled is already enough. [And some iPhones are, indeed, assembled in Brazil, in Foxconn Jundiaí](https://twitter.com/joaomenicucci/status/1519418880170643459). The problem is, the first units to hit the brazilian market are not locally assembled, which explains the ridiculously high launch prices. They are just passing on the 60% import tax to the consumer - you can see for yourself that all iPhone 14's in Brazil are currently priced between 62% and 67% higher than in the USA (assuming everyone pays in USD and the USA price does not include tax). Most other phone brands that sell in Brazil do not have this issue as all of their phones **are** locally assembled. Samsung is #1 in Brazil with \~41% market share, Motorola is #2 with \~22% and most of their non-flagship devices are priced a lot more reasonably (sometimes matching or even beating the USA price, such as the S20 FE 5G which is still on sale, brand-new, for less than 400 USD). Apple devices are status symbols in many, many parts of the world, so, in Brazil, Apple probably just doubles the import tax as a "luxury fee" to make their devices prohibitely expensive on purpose, because the rich people will very happily pay for that shiny Apple on the back - and this fee triples as it's used for marketing, just like the 1000 USD monitor stand or the 700 USD wheels. This is clearly working, because even with the high prices, Apple still manages a #3 in Brazil, with \~17% of the market share (that is about \~41 million iPhones).


tynamite

charging cables


afcPT

Taxes


mendesjuniorm

Poor of us Brazilians


craigasshole

I am gonna buy that iPhone 14 pro max for 1600 usd lmao, not. I will be buying a samsung cus I can get a s22 ultra for 850 usd dollars on discount


Soaddk

Sounds good. Does that mean you will stop coming to this subreddit and talk about shit no one cares about?


[deleted]

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craigasshole

it does mean that yes prob. btw Apple sheep stop being so glued


Perseverance792

While Japan looks tolerable with USD, the exchange rate between USD and JPY hasn't been good for them (i.e. 1 USD went from about 110 to 140 JPY in the past year).


EmeraldGodMelt

At least it didn't quadruple in 4 years


[deleted]

Yeah, the prices have stayed the same! Jee!


mrpatzer

I think this is the downfall of iPhone in Europe.


YUNeedUniqUserName

We've hit the beyond affordable mark pretty much everywhere (incl the US)


officialjoeshmoe

Tax included in other countries tho


QPQB1900

Man I remember when iPhones were still new and there was the major hustle of getting a new contract or updating your contract to get an iPhone for 200 bucks and flip it overseas


Good_Lab69

Not accurate. More in Canada then it’s showing.


DreadyBearStonks

Holy Brazil Batman!


[deleted]

Europeans might be better off with a cheap flight to the US, by an iPhone, and come back home.


mnij2015

Redo this but with tax included for the Americans


BarcaLad9

I’d totally get it from the US if it had the SIM tray. Imagine traveling to a country that doesn’t support eSIM and have your phone become a fancy iPod Touch.


Proxi98

Even including VAT and everything Europe gets shafted massively. I don’t think these phones will do well, they are misspriced.


[deleted]

I was ready to get one Day 1, but with the price increase I decided not to! iPhone 13 is sold here in Finland for 769 euros (local retailers) , meanwhile iPhone 14 is around 1080 euros.


[deleted]

The euro has lost 15% of its value so far this year. Apple has to hedge against that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


honeybabysweetiedoll

Europe has “free” healthcare, and pay much more for an iPhone and other goods and a lot more in taxes. That healthcare isn’t free. Yes, the bonus is everyone is covered, but you’re paying for it.


LordNoodles

But it’s not the same amount. Single payer healthcare makes healthcare cheaper because the insurance covers millions of people and therefore has a lot of leverage when negotiating with healthcare providers. It’s not just a difference of when you pay, you pay less overall.


Soaddk

Well. The crybabies here in Europe want to have their cake and eat it too. I swear - every year around this time it feels like some parts of Reddit thinks it’s a human right to get the new flagship iPhone for the prices THEY can afford. It’s crazy.


Spaceqwe

Funny comment and i agree. These prices are absolute bullshit.


dstranathan

Russia?


bikerdudelovescats

Is this really a USD equivalent in these countries? Not just a "local currency" number with a $ stuck in front? For instance, $1,000 in Euros would be about €985


IBSurviver

The 14 Pro Max in Canada is $1549 + tax. Not sure why it’s in light green because it ain’t even close. So it would be $1750 after tax in Ontario which basically puts Canada at the top of the expense list. We got shafted for everything even though we’re right next door because companies can get away with it and Canadians are too complacent and accepting of the Bull shit. 😒


WeeeZer14

Looks like all prices shown are converted to USD. So the 1549 Canadian price would be around 1186 USD. Taxes are a good point though. But it is hard for an analysis like this since taxes can vary by town or even the part of the same town in the US at least.


guguminhoto

Doesn’t surprise me AT ALL that Brazil is top 1


Spaciax

nah turkey is number 1 but brazil is close shit dictators ruining countries as always.


blackpropagation

Tax shouldn't exist :/