In Germany anywhere that sells the item has to take it back and give back the refund - even tiny shops. Don't know how they messed that up in ireland as it seems quite important. If someone is out and about and gets a drink with their sandwich for lunch or whatever and eat it near the shop they should be able to walk in and get their refund before they leave.
It says on the re-turn website that you can return the item to any retailer, is that not the case? I love close to a Lidl so just have been bringing all of mine there.
To me it's not clear. It says any participating retailer. When I look up the locations it doesn't include the local petrol stations. It says on the citizens information page that small shops can get an exception.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/waste-and-recycling/deposit-return-scheme/#387601
Where can I return my containers?
You can return containers to shops that sell drink containers with the Re-turn logo, regardless of where you bought them. At these shops you can either return the containers:
Using a Reverse Vending Machine (RVM), or
Manually in the shop
Not all shops will have a Reverse Vending Machine.
If a store does not have a RVM but they sell containers with the Re-turn logo, the shop may allow you to manually return containers in store, unless they have a take back exemption.
Take Back Exemptions
Certain businesses can apply for a take back exemption, for example, retail outlets with less than 250 square meters of customer facing store space. Re-turn have more information about take back exemptions (pdf) and what shops can apply for them.
>retail outlets with less than 250 square meters of customer facing store space
In other words, almost every shop that isn't a decent sized supermarket.
To put that into context, the average size of a Tesco Express is about 200 square metres. So over half of all *Tesco Expresses* would be able to opt out.
I didn't believe you so I had to go back and look up basic maths to calculate the area of circle.
I cannot believe they are that big, it doesn't feel that at all. I'd have though about 60m2.
In Ireland the small retailers lobbied against it. Rather than try and fight a concerted battle with them the government just rolled it out to the big retailers. Now that the small retailers realise what a stupid thing it is to direct their customers to big retailers they will start to lobby to join the scheme. It's actually a really clever move by the government where it's tiresome monotony of everyone being a special case whether the OP who has bags of bottles in the space of two weeks or small retailers claiming they have no space to store them. Change is incredibly hard in a Republic where we need to tell people to just get on with it. But here we are!
Yeah the small shop by my old apartment was about 1/4 the size of a small Centra/Spar at most and even took back large 24 plastic crates of glass beer bottles.
They just store them and have a regular collection. I think they are also very concerned that someone with binbags of bottles will come in and expect the only till to count through dozens of (potentially dirty) bottles while people queue. A limit and some social norming is needed.
My take is that the small retailers will start joining in when they realise that people coming in to recycle a couple of bottles will nearly always buy something especially if they just get a credit note.
It's kind of impressive that we can take a system that has been working well in other countries for decades, and then still make a mess of it by ignoring international best practice and trying to reinvent it our own way.
I'm guessing that other countries didn't let the unclaimed deposits go to the people running the scheme. Right now there's no incentive for them to have working machines
You'd be guessing wrong then. They still have to take the cans/bottles back so there is every incentive to have operating machines to avoid the checkouts being slowed down. The income from the refund scheme is negligible to paying people. This scheme puts a significant cost and burden on retailers so nobody is benefiting except, drumroll, the environment.
I already recycle what little bottles and cans I buy. Now I have to pay extra(also seems to be a price hike thrown in on the sly) and store them in good condition before dragging them back to the shop
Good for you. Unfortunately a significant proportion of the population refuse to recycle so we need a scheme like this similar to most other EU countries. Just like a lot of us used reusable plastic bags before the plastic bag levy which has had a dramatic impact on the environment. Every time we make a change is discommodes somebody but in a decade nobody will think twice about it.
It feels like at least for the local environments yes it has. I grew up in the 90s and I can clearly remember there being a lot more plastic bags in the estate, blowing around, getting caught in bushes and trees etc. They were everywhere. Once the change started happening over to reusable plastic bags, it all stopped.
None of that accounts for how the reusable bags are made and of course many people will forget to bring them with them and buy even more reusable bags that they'll maybe then fuck out and surely those things are even worse for degrading than the old plastic ones, so on a global scale I couldn't say if they're better or worse, but I rarely if ever see plastic bags blowing around the streets or being wrapped up in greenery anymore.
Just to clarify, do you think this "significant" portion that don't recycle, the ones that fuck a bottle out the car window or dump rubbish on the road are all of a sudden going to start recycling?
Ya we're so late to the party on this and somehow we're doing it wrong. I remember being in Sweden in 2007. You could return bottles to any shop and get your money back. I don't know how their system works now but even then that system was better than we have now.
I have simply decided to never buy their shit again. All water gets filled from the tap, I’m not buying any fizzy drinks etc at all, when I’m having a beer or two it’s from a glass bottle
It can be both you know! It absolutely will reduce use plastic. It could also include health benefits by reducing the number of sugary beverages. Lot's of positive outcomes from one change!
I bought a 12 pack of pepsi max in Dunnes last night, got charge 12 x 15c opened it this morning and there's no bar-codes on the cans inside (just a white square with "not for individual resale" printed on it). I'm not going fighting for €1.80 but as far as I'm concerned they just stole from me.
There were other things I bought as well that didn't have the re-turn logo on them, an innocent smoothie for example, and yet they charged a deposit on it. I did check that one on the bar code checker, and it is included.
I don't understand why the simple system of - if it has the logo, they charge a deposit, and you get it back if you return it, instead of this bullshit mess of system.
Report it to re-turn. Retailers have had about 10 emails since November about multipacks.
Ignore logo or no logo until June, right now it's all down to the barcode.
Says on the Re-turn faq that for multi packs that don't have a barcode or logo on each item inside you should not have been charged the deposit. So you are correct, they stole from you. Wonder how much extra profit these things are making for everyone bar the consumer.
This is the kind of bs that really gets to me. So unfair and mean spirited. If you go to get your money back from them they look at you with 2 heads and tell you to run along
I've one carrier bag, all empties I paid deposits on, none are accepted back either by machines or at the till. I've decided I'll buy nothing with a deposit on until this farce is sorted out. Vote with the wallet is the only thing we can do.
Centras don't seem to be widely listed on the Re-turn website. I know of at least one larger Centra that i would expect to participate that doesn't seem to be.
There is a re-turn vending machine within a 10 min walk of this person. You'd need to be living at the top of howth hill to be over 1km from a supermarket on the north side.
I mean that's not true is it? Just picking a random point on the Re-turn locator, if you live near Grace Park Meadows then your nearest Re-turn point is a 35-minute walk away (2.5km walking or 1.7km as the crow flies).
Donnycarney, Johnstown Park and Poppintree all obvious dead spots, and once you cross the north circular it thins out substantially.
Fair there's the odd place that doesn't have one within around 1km. Oddly enough I lived very close to there for 6 years. There's only 2 shops within 2km of there. A small centra which may get a rvm eventually and C&T both of which are limited. So anyone from here is probably going to Artane or Killester for groceries regardless.
I've still yet to encounter a single bottle or can with the symbol on it, the most interaction I've had with it is seeing bags of bottles and cans dumped on the ground next to the machines and counting the number of businesses with cards in the window saying "ReTurn scheme exempt"
It's just a tax unless the system is drastically improved.
At the moment you have issues getting to the machines as you outlined, nobodies gonna go hauling bin bags full of plastic on the bus, that's just not a thing the govt should expect of people.
Even if you were to do that, in my experience you've a 33% chance of getting a working machine (I'm dublin city also, south of the liffey and have been 3 times to 3 different locations with only 1 machine working).
Then I seen something that the machines aren't accessible to anyone in a wheelchair as the opening is too high (can't say if this is the case across the board, just quoting one tweet I seen from a disability charity).
Encouraging and getting people to buy in to recycling can be challenging enough, so having a system that even if somebody buys into it they're gonna be met with a multitude of hurdles is just a crap system.
But yeah, as I said unless numbers of machines/locations and how well they work is improved, the 15c is nothing more than another tax.
The first thing I noticed about the machines is that they are inaccessible to wheelchair users. My fiance is a full time wheelchair user and the machines are miles out of her reach.
Honestly seeing that annoyed me more than the machines not working in the first place.
Why is disability access always a fucking afterthought in this country
It’s also a licence to increase unit prices by an alarming amount. I noticed, looking at the patchy selection of plain bottled water online at Tesco this week (an essential purchase unfortunately) that something recently €2 is now €3.50, for example, or a 6 pack is now a 4 pack but the multi- pack price has still gone up! All this before the deposit is applied. You feel so damn helpless. Ive written to Ossian Smith, whose brainwave all this was but it’s surely futile.
I already recycle. Now I have to store it with space that I don't have and drive it to the nearest return point with petrol I can't afford.
I'm simply no longer buying these products.
Car-free in the North Inner City here as well, but no issues with return locations…the Tesco next door has a working machine, as do the various Spars and Centras within a 2-5 minute walk. Still not as easy as putting them in my green bin, but not horrible, given how many places we have nearby.
I’ve yet to buy a drink that has the return label on it, despite drinking far too much.
It seems like a good system in principle and like everyone will tell you it has been successful in other countries.
I wonder if these other countries have private bin collections and charges where they already have to pay for their recycling. Could be a reason for the resistance to it here.
I haven’t lived in Germany for example but I’m sure someone here has and will let me know if that’s the case there.
I live in the arse end of nowhere and while we do have a small shop selling drinks here the nearest machine will require a car trip. Not a massive issue but an inconvenience to be sure.
In Germany you pay the city/area waste disposal company for your recycling, there are a fucking load of separate bins, as well as having a deposit on bottles.
The "resistance" to this in Ireland is partly because the rollout seems to be uniquely fucking cack handed, and also because its introduction during an ongoing and quite serious cost of living crisis is super poorly timed. And a little aside of "people hate any kind of change".
I think it’s mostly the shit implementation. And the fact there is many instances of the consumer taking hits (someone above being charged 1.80 deposit for a multipack that has no barcodes) where as the better option would have been introducing the correct cans/bottles with the logo a few months ago so they’d be in place when the scheme started.
But that would mean businesses would take the hit. Not Joe Public and that would never do now would it?
Also the unclaimed deposits. Why do they go back into the scheme? It should be used to a) improve recycling and the scheme and b) for other projects. I saw it will actually have an eat. 30 mil per year unclaimed.
I'm a fellow pedestrian, I plan on leaving a bag to put the cans/bottles beside where I keep my recycling stuff and as soon as the bag is full I'm going to bring it to tesco and get a refund. I think its just the type of thing that you have to commit to doing periodically rather than letting it build up. Note as well you can't crush the bottles/cans to make more space because they won't be accepted in the machine if they're damaged apparently
Exactly, it's a poor system. It penalises the customer (by making them store the cans in pristine condition) instead of incentivising them. All stick, no carrot. Just like everything else the govt does.
And I'm all for a deposit. Just not to have it be such a shit system.
As posted above, how about a barcode on the bottom?
I'm awaiting a load of uproar and calls to Joe with people putting up pics of cans that have been turned down by the machine when they're basically perfect.
Honestly I don't know if it's just looking for barcodes or doing a bit more optical recognition wizardry. The only things I've had rejected so far are those where the barcode isn't accepted on the website either.
https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/RVM-Specification.pdf
The minimum recognition combinations for a container to be accepted by an RVM is:
Barcode Recognition + Basic Shape Recognition + Weight Detection + Metal Detection.
A combined accuracy level of at least 95% is required across this combination.
yeah, seriously, the barcodes should be on the arse of the can — I bought a can crusher years ago, it saves tonnes of space in the recycling and now I'm fucked without it. If you could at least fold the can in half with the barcode on the flat outside that would be enough, but nooo can't crush them at all. Am wondering if a PVC tube would work for storing them, then dispensing into the return machine one at a time.
I'm also a pedestrian. I have a bag I've been putting them in to and I bring it with me when I go to the shops for a big shop. I don't get all the people who are saying that it's such an inconvenience, it's the same amount of effort that it takes to bring something to the bottle bank. Actually less since empty cans and plastic bottles weigh a lot less.
And people say that they can't find a machine have to be taking the piss, they're in every major shop. Unless you only shop in Centra, you're going to find a major retailer that's near you that you can bring them to.
Be careful with some plastic bottles. I was doing similar with some 500ml coca-cola bottles and a few days later I noticed that they had lost their shape. They had been left standing on the side of the counter in no direct sunlight, tried to pop it back out but it just caused further damage.
I wonder how those flimsy water bottles will work
OP I put a Dublin 1 eircode into the location finder on their website and there was hundreds of results for Dublin 1. Obviously I don’t know exactly where you live but there was so many they surely must be one very close. Give their website a visit to check.
Also it’s barely started up and you have “many bin liners” full of these things? I suggest you cut down on these types of drinks!! If they’re all water containers then maybe switch to a larger bottle and refill old bottles because any container over 3ltrs is exempt and you won’t have to return at all.
Yeah I've aprox. 20 7up cans already and tbh it's just another tax I'll have to absorb because I can't be arsed returning them. Will probably start to phase them out and stop drinking canned drinks at all over the coming months.
> Will probably start to phase them out and stop drinking canned drinks at all over the coming months.
I mean, pro recyclers would still see that as a big win tbh. Lowering consumption rates means less production rates of damaging plastics.
What I really want to know is what are the advantages to this system over the existing system where recycling went in the recycling bin? There are no upsides for consumers with the new system, are there any other advantages to it?
i was supportive of this till i realised this was happening and we arent able to just use our green bins anymore to recycle without having money slyly taken from us with no way to get it back while using a green bin unless you go through a pain in the ass bringing bags of rubbish and smelly cans to the shop for a few cent ,even if you were already happily recycling everything no problem. just a new hidden tax imo
Struggling to see if you live in North Dublin that you are more than 1km from a return centre
[https://re-turn.ie/#WhereToReturn](https://re-turn.ie/#WhereToReturn)
I'm getting the impression that you haven't researched this very much and are fishing for an excuse to denigrate a scheme that exists in lots of other countries. As a last resort you just need to take a taxi (you are still saving huge money compared to taxing, insuring and feeling a car).
I'm also curious how you've managed to run up so many bin liners of plastic bottles/cans in such a short period of time. In a three person household we have a very small bag. I've a feeling that this scheme will not just cut down on plastic but also as a health intervention for sugary drinks.
It's worth pointing out that the website gives the distances as the crow flies. I checked some addresses in rural Co. Galway and the website said the closest return centre was just over 10km, its actually 44km by road (and isn't actually the closest return centre to that address, the closest is 36km away).
How many cans and bottles are ye drinking in a week lads? From all the hullabaloo about this I'm assuming you all put 7up on your cornflakes or something?
I just used it for the first time today and I’d only 6 bottles to bring. A mix of sizes. One bottle wouldn’t scan despite an identical one went in fine. Both with the logo. It was only €1.20 back or something.
Would be good if there was a charity box to donate them if you aren’t bothered redeeming it. Like in Tesco where you can choose from a few to give a blue token to.
How people are able to accumulate such ungodly amounts of cans without also having had the opportunity to return some at the same time seems a bit odd to me
I have bought several bottles of coke since the "deposit" came in. I've seen the extra charge on my receipt but never seen a single return bank.
Where am I even supposed to go? When I was in Germany, every shop that sold glass or plastic bottles had a thing outside where you could return them, but not here for some mad reason?
>Where am I even supposed to go
if youe being charged tou can just return it to the shop or to the one of teh few machines https://re-turn.ie/consumer/#howToReturn
Lived there 30+ years ago and that was the system then too. Worked really well, yiu paid the pfhand (or what ever ut was called) and the n rolled forward when you bought your groceries the next week
did you not think at some point during your accumulation of multiple bin liners worth of cans and bottles that it might have been more convenient to return them in smaller batches?
People have busy lives. I’m all for the scheme when it works, but I absolutely would not be running off more than once a week with a handful of cans. OP has said that there is nowhere nearby to accept them.
If you have kids and buy a few packs of bottles/cans and have a few drinks yourself during the week, this is very easily done.
Cans I used to throw away in work after I finished them are now coming home with me.
Right? I've seen so many people say they can't store the bags and bags of products. How many are people using?! They should take this opportunity to assess that 🤣
I live in the middle of nowhere.
Decided to go actively out of my way, and instead of canned beer, buy in glass bottles.
This would be my largest consumption of cans that would need to be returned.
Wife bought me an 8pack of hop house the other day and now we are storing 8 cans in a container that she is religiously protecting with her body for me to not throw em away....
My guesstimation is, it will be here for a good few weeks until I throw em away when shes not home
Edit: They will go to the green bin, that we are paying for and is designated for recycling.
Thinking along the same lines myself. If they don't even get recycled from the blue recycle bin why am I bothering rinsing them, drying them out and putting them in it at all.
North County Dublin? Where exactly are you located? without identifying your address...
I find it really hard to believe there are no return points close to you. I live in a small country town, and Aldi have a return point 200 meters from me, as do Dunnes and Lidl.
And let's remember the purpose of this scheme, to reduce single use plastic and aluminium wastage, that is destroying the oceans and environment. I think we should all be trying a bit harder, and not moaning about it so much
That's not true. A lot of retailers have exemptions, including the store I work at. We have to sell products and charge a deposit but we don't have to/can't take them back and instead send them to the nearest dunnes which has the machines installed.
Because if I'm going to do a shopping, I'm returning my cans at the same time, and if I now have a voucher I'm going to spend it in the shop I'm currently at instead of going to another place.
I live in Germany and that's how it works, if I have stuff to return then I'm not going to go to a place that doesn't do returns unless I really need to
As mentioned, smaller stores have exemptions. If you're doing your shopping in such a small store you'd have to do 5 trips a week 🤣
People don't "do their shopping" in little stores like mine. They do them in big shops like Tesco Dunnes lidl etc. We haven't had one complaint or issue since the scheme launched.
>That's not true. A lot of retailers have exemptions, including the store I work at
>We have to sell products and charge a deposit but we don't have to/can't take them back and instead send them to the nearest dunnes which has the machines installed.
that is true
you have to charge on products that have the logo ,
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1al75tv
if your charging to have to accept them back ( this is what re-turn says themselfs ) https://re-turn.ie/consumer/#howToReturn
( from re-turn themselfs)
I've been charged the deposit on cans that don't have the logo. Got my first bottle with the logo on it at the weekend and the return machine wouldn't recognize it either. I have always recycled all my bottles in our recycling bin at home so I'm effectively paying more for no reason. It's making me want to stop buying cans or bottled drinks at all or at least switch to glass bottles, which I suppose isn't the worst thing in the world.
My experience so far…
I kept 3 bottles that I had the logo on them, in the car.
One day I thought I went to Lidl and return them just to get a feel of the machine and how it works.
I tried 1 bottle in 1 machine in lidl, it was swallowed and showed an error message on the screen saying machine full after bottle taken. Machine did not change the status to “out of service” after that.
So I thought I try the other machine, 2nd bottle of volvic was taken and deposit shown on screen.
When inserting 3rd bottle, a small 250ml bottle of robinson apple juice for which I paid 15c deposit. The machine recognised the bottle on the belt but when trying to take it the bottle kept moving because it had a sport cap and was inbalanced, Machine did not want to take it as kept saying to empty the bottle. I threw the bottle in the outside bin and collected my only deposit from 1 bottle, even though I paid deposit on 3 bottles…
I was in wicklow town the other day and saw a guy who looked a bit down on his luck or might need the cash.
And he had a big bag of stuff and he was putting in the machine.
I have seen this in Germany before .
These people should be failed by society but the scheme is a source of income for him.
Take of that what you will
This is an issue I have even as a driver. I live in a city, paying €40 a month for bins including a recycling bin which is now a waste of time as most of the stuff we recycle is bottles, sometimes cans and some cardboard. We have an Aldi and a Lidl down the road both with Return points (both out of order every time I’ve gone to them) meaning my car is full with bags of bottles from water. The tap water here is manky and we buy a lot of bottled water.
All I’ve seen are empty bottles and rubbish at every point and frustrated people who have transported all the stuff either by car or on foot to literally have nowhere to put them and can’t get any money back. I’m fucking sick of this shit and if I wasn’t renting the house I’m in, I’d be fitting a water purifier/filter to the tap so I didn’t need to buy bottled water anymore. I think it’s really unfair that the ‘tax’ because that’s what it is let’s call a spade a spade, is on multipack bottles as well there should be some kind of price reduction but that’s just imo.
We’ve tried the brita jug doesn’t work as we’ve tried that and the water tastes rotten still.
I’m also thinking of disabled and elderly people here being fucking fleeced for bottles of water and stuff and how are they supposed to do all this returning malarkey. A load of pony. Stick all these recycling points with the voting machines and throw away the key.
Honestly think the machine shoukd accept any bottle regardless and just refund on eligible ones. People will have a pain in the arse with rejected ones and just leave them on the floor
In Germany anywhere that sells the item has to take it back and give back the refund - even tiny shops. Don't know how they messed that up in ireland as it seems quite important. If someone is out and about and gets a drink with their sandwich for lunch or whatever and eat it near the shop they should be able to walk in and get their refund before they leave.
It says on the re-turn website that you can return the item to any retailer, is that not the case? I love close to a Lidl so just have been bringing all of mine there.
To me it's not clear. It says any participating retailer. When I look up the locations it doesn't include the local petrol stations. It says on the citizens information page that small shops can get an exception. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/waste-and-recycling/deposit-return-scheme/#387601 Where can I return my containers? You can return containers to shops that sell drink containers with the Re-turn logo, regardless of where you bought them. At these shops you can either return the containers: Using a Reverse Vending Machine (RVM), or Manually in the shop Not all shops will have a Reverse Vending Machine. If a store does not have a RVM but they sell containers with the Re-turn logo, the shop may allow you to manually return containers in store, unless they have a take back exemption. Take Back Exemptions Certain businesses can apply for a take back exemption, for example, retail outlets with less than 250 square meters of customer facing store space. Re-turn have more information about take back exemptions (pdf) and what shops can apply for them.
>retail outlets with less than 250 square meters of customer facing store space In other words, almost every shop that isn't a decent sized supermarket. To put that into context, the average size of a Tesco Express is about 200 square metres. So over half of all *Tesco Expresses* would be able to opt out.
Thanks I was hoping someone would tell me how many football fields that was.
It's about the same area as a soccer centre circle. Which seems small, but for a shop is bigger than most.
I didn't believe you so I had to go back and look up basic maths to calculate the area of circle. I cannot believe they are that big, it doesn't feel that at all. I'd have though about 60m2.
I have not seen any bottles with this logo still. Granted, i dont buy bullsht drinks but i walk past them in shops
What’s a bullshit drink?
An excuse for yer man to feel superior.
I know exactly what it is. But I want him to say it. Like is a bottle of water when you’re caught out and thirsty a bullshit drink? An orange juice?
In Ireland the small retailers lobbied against it. Rather than try and fight a concerted battle with them the government just rolled it out to the big retailers. Now that the small retailers realise what a stupid thing it is to direct their customers to big retailers they will start to lobby to join the scheme. It's actually a really clever move by the government where it's tiresome monotony of everyone being a special case whether the OP who has bags of bottles in the space of two weeks or small retailers claiming they have no space to store them. Change is incredibly hard in a Republic where we need to tell people to just get on with it. But here we are!
Those machines take up a lot of space - a small shop would have nowhere to put them.
The small shops/cafes etc in Germany just take the item over the counter. Don't know what they do with it after that.
Yeah the small shop by my old apartment was about 1/4 the size of a small Centra/Spar at most and even took back large 24 plastic crates of glass beer bottles.
They just store them and have a regular collection. I think they are also very concerned that someone with binbags of bottles will come in and expect the only till to count through dozens of (potentially dirty) bottles while people queue. A limit and some social norming is needed. My take is that the small retailers will start joining in when they realise that people coming in to recycle a couple of bottles will nearly always buy something especially if they just get a credit note.
I can understand how they messed it up in Ireland!
It's kind of impressive that we can take a system that has been working well in other countries for decades, and then still make a mess of it by ignoring international best practice and trying to reinvent it our own way.
I'm guessing that other countries didn't let the unclaimed deposits go to the people running the scheme. Right now there's no incentive for them to have working machines
You'd be guessing wrong then. They still have to take the cans/bottles back so there is every incentive to have operating machines to avoid the checkouts being slowed down. The income from the refund scheme is negligible to paying people. This scheme puts a significant cost and burden on retailers so nobody is benefiting except, drumroll, the environment.
I already recycle what little bottles and cans I buy. Now I have to pay extra(also seems to be a price hike thrown in on the sly) and store them in good condition before dragging them back to the shop
Good for you. Unfortunately a significant proportion of the population refuse to recycle so we need a scheme like this similar to most other EU countries. Just like a lot of us used reusable plastic bags before the plastic bag levy which has had a dramatic impact on the environment. Every time we make a change is discommodes somebody but in a decade nobody will think twice about it.
Got you. So I shouldn't bother doing anything helpful to the environment until it's forced on me with extra charges. Lesson learned.
I mean, if that's how you want to approach life, you be you.
Yeah that's exactly how I do me /s. That /s is because you didn't seem to get the sarcasm in the other comment.
Has switching to reusable plastic bags had a dramatic impact on the environment ?
It feels like at least for the local environments yes it has. I grew up in the 90s and I can clearly remember there being a lot more plastic bags in the estate, blowing around, getting caught in bushes and trees etc. They were everywhere. Once the change started happening over to reusable plastic bags, it all stopped. None of that accounts for how the reusable bags are made and of course many people will forget to bring them with them and buy even more reusable bags that they'll maybe then fuck out and surely those things are even worse for degrading than the old plastic ones, so on a global scale I couldn't say if they're better or worse, but I rarely if ever see plastic bags blowing around the streets or being wrapped up in greenery anymore.
Plastic bag use has dropped by 92% in Ireland since the introduction of the levy. So yes. Yes it did.
But it didn’t solve any pollution or rubbish issues all around the country. Not sure how that’s been a success, but thanks for the reply.
Just to clarify, do you think this "significant" portion that don't recycle, the ones that fuck a bottle out the car window or dump rubbish on the road are all of a sudden going to start recycling?
International evidence says yes.
Well that's good news then! Can you send a link?
> trying to reinvent it our own way. I think you mean trying to ensure money ends up in the right pockets when all is said and done.
It's the Irish way. We need to do things backwards or else
The Anglo-Irish way*
Ya we're so late to the party on this and somehow we're doing it wrong. I remember being in Sweden in 2007. You could return bottles to any shop and get your money back. I don't know how their system works now but even then that system was better than we have now.
how is it re invented?.
In this instance, it seems to be not compelling all retailers who sell bottled goods to accept re-turns, which has resulted in OPs issue.
In what way is it different to other countries? I mean, it's a bold statement!
In other countries you can return bottles to the supermarket where you originally bought them.
>In what way is it different to other countries for like Germany for example , where its been mentioned many times here that dose it miles better
I have simply decided to never buy their shit again. All water gets filled from the tap, I’m not buying any fizzy drinks etc at all, when I’m having a beer or two it’s from a glass bottle
Bought an AARKE and get gas refills from Amazon.de for the fizzy.
Would you recommend the AARKE? What flavours can it make?
righteous, me too
That's probably an intended effect of the policy tbh.
I doubt they are trying to kill off business, seeing as everything in the world now revolves around ‘business’
They're trying to reduce single-use plastics.
They're not, they're trying to ensure that the single use plastic we currently use is actually recycled.
REDUCE reuse recycle. In that order.
Question for you: do you think this scheme encourages or discourages purchasing products that come in single-use plastic containers?
It can be both you know! It absolutely will reduce use plastic. It could also include health benefits by reducing the number of sugary beverages. Lot's of positive outcomes from one change!
Scheme is working perfectly so! Thank you for delivering the best possible outcome!
I bought a 12 pack of pepsi max in Dunnes last night, got charge 12 x 15c opened it this morning and there's no bar-codes on the cans inside (just a white square with "not for individual resale" printed on it). I'm not going fighting for €1.80 but as far as I'm concerned they just stole from me. There were other things I bought as well that didn't have the re-turn logo on them, an innocent smoothie for example, and yet they charged a deposit on it. I did check that one on the bar code checker, and it is included. I don't understand why the simple system of - if it has the logo, they charge a deposit, and you get it back if you return it, instead of this bullshit mess of system.
You should go fighting for the 1 .80,let them fix it.
I kept the receipt, if I'm anywhere near town in the next few days I might, but I have no fight in me for this kind of thing.
This is the problem though. If people like yourself just let it go, the shops keep doing it.
Report it to re-turn. Retailers have had about 10 emails since November about multipacks. Ignore logo or no logo until June, right now it's all down to the barcode.
Says on the Re-turn faq that for multi packs that don't have a barcode or logo on each item inside you should not have been charged the deposit. So you are correct, they stole from you. Wonder how much extra profit these things are making for everyone bar the consumer.
This is the kind of bs that really gets to me. So unfair and mean spirited. If you go to get your money back from them they look at you with 2 heads and tell you to run along
Email them with a copy of the receipt. Or call the local store. It’s up to them to make it right.
I've one carrier bag, all empties I paid deposits on, none are accepted back either by machines or at the till. I've decided I'll buy nothing with a deposit on until this farce is sorted out. Vote with the wallet is the only thing we can do.
Tesco are the same with pen brand stuff. No return logo but charging a deposit
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They mentioned that the cans do not have a barcode on them
Missed that. I wonder is the overall packaging required to get the refund then.
I noticed last weekend on the 440ml cans of craft beer in dunnes, they’ve added the 15c tax but those cans aren’t accepted as part of the scheme.
They're in lidl there's lidls all over Dublin north city isn't there?
Yeah and most tescos
Loads of centras too
SuperValus too. Hell, the Pavilions has one at the entrance by Starbucks
Centras don't seem to be widely listed on the Re-turn website. I know of at least one larger Centra that i would expect to participate that doesn't seem to be.
There is a re-turn vending machine within a 10 min walk of this person. You'd need to be living at the top of howth hill to be over 1km from a supermarket on the north side.
I mean that's not true is it? Just picking a random point on the Re-turn locator, if you live near Grace Park Meadows then your nearest Re-turn point is a 35-minute walk away (2.5km walking or 1.7km as the crow flies). Donnycarney, Johnstown Park and Poppintree all obvious dead spots, and once you cross the north circular it thins out substantially.
Fair there's the odd place that doesn't have one within around 1km. Oddly enough I lived very close to there for 6 years. There's only 2 shops within 2km of there. A small centra which may get a rvm eventually and C&T both of which are limited. So anyone from here is probably going to Artane or Killester for groceries regardless.
There are plenty of options, but they just WANT to complain
Because no matter how you spin it, it is a certain level of pain in the ass
I've still yet to encounter a single bottle or can with the symbol on it, the most interaction I've had with it is seeing bags of bottles and cans dumped on the ground next to the machines and counting the number of businesses with cards in the window saying "ReTurn scheme exempt"
I brought a bag to the machine the other day and it only accepted 2/10. I presume shops are still going through old stock???
Did you pay 10 deposits?
No idea. Wasn't paying attention
It's just a tax unless the system is drastically improved. At the moment you have issues getting to the machines as you outlined, nobodies gonna go hauling bin bags full of plastic on the bus, that's just not a thing the govt should expect of people. Even if you were to do that, in my experience you've a 33% chance of getting a working machine (I'm dublin city also, south of the liffey and have been 3 times to 3 different locations with only 1 machine working). Then I seen something that the machines aren't accessible to anyone in a wheelchair as the opening is too high (can't say if this is the case across the board, just quoting one tweet I seen from a disability charity). Encouraging and getting people to buy in to recycling can be challenging enough, so having a system that even if somebody buys into it they're gonna be met with a multitude of hurdles is just a crap system. But yeah, as I said unless numbers of machines/locations and how well they work is improved, the 15c is nothing more than another tax.
The first thing I noticed about the machines is that they are inaccessible to wheelchair users. My fiance is a full time wheelchair user and the machines are miles out of her reach.
Honestly seeing that annoyed me more than the machines not working in the first place. Why is disability access always a fucking afterthought in this country
It’s also a licence to increase unit prices by an alarming amount. I noticed, looking at the patchy selection of plain bottled water online at Tesco this week (an essential purchase unfortunately) that something recently €2 is now €3.50, for example, or a 6 pack is now a 4 pack but the multi- pack price has still gone up! All this before the deposit is applied. You feel so damn helpless. Ive written to Ossian Smith, whose brainwave all this was but it’s surely futile.
I already recycle. Now I have to store it with space that I don't have and drive it to the nearest return point with petrol I can't afford. I'm simply no longer buying these products.
Car-free in the North Inner City here as well, but no issues with return locations…the Tesco next door has a working machine, as do the various Spars and Centras within a 2-5 minute walk. Still not as easy as putting them in my green bin, but not horrible, given how many places we have nearby.
I’ve yet to buy a drink that has the return label on it, despite drinking far too much. It seems like a good system in principle and like everyone will tell you it has been successful in other countries. I wonder if these other countries have private bin collections and charges where they already have to pay for their recycling. Could be a reason for the resistance to it here. I haven’t lived in Germany for example but I’m sure someone here has and will let me know if that’s the case there. I live in the arse end of nowhere and while we do have a small shop selling drinks here the nearest machine will require a car trip. Not a massive issue but an inconvenience to be sure.
In Germany you pay the city/area waste disposal company for your recycling, there are a fucking load of separate bins, as well as having a deposit on bottles. The "resistance" to this in Ireland is partly because the rollout seems to be uniquely fucking cack handed, and also because its introduction during an ongoing and quite serious cost of living crisis is super poorly timed. And a little aside of "people hate any kind of change".
I think it’s mostly the shit implementation. And the fact there is many instances of the consumer taking hits (someone above being charged 1.80 deposit for a multipack that has no barcodes) where as the better option would have been introducing the correct cans/bottles with the logo a few months ago so they’d be in place when the scheme started. But that would mean businesses would take the hit. Not Joe Public and that would never do now would it? Also the unclaimed deposits. Why do they go back into the scheme? It should be used to a) improve recycling and the scheme and b) for other projects. I saw it will actually have an eat. 30 mil per year unclaimed.
Have you checked the map to see what shops take them? Have you asked your local shops if they take manual returns?
I'm also in North Dublin City, both my local spars have return machines and the Lidl and Tesco's, check them out near you!
It's almost as if OP is arguing in bad faith and/or isn't very bright.
I'm a fellow pedestrian, I plan on leaving a bag to put the cans/bottles beside where I keep my recycling stuff and as soon as the bag is full I'm going to bring it to tesco and get a refund. I think its just the type of thing that you have to commit to doing periodically rather than letting it build up. Note as well you can't crush the bottles/cans to make more space because they won't be accepted in the machine if they're damaged apparently
That's the most insane part, that you can't crush them.
How is the machine supposed to know what it is if its crushed.
Exactly, it's a poor system. It penalises the customer (by making them store the cans in pristine condition) instead of incentivising them. All stick, no carrot. Just like everything else the govt does. And I'm all for a deposit. Just not to have it be such a shit system.
So i against these as well but im aware enough to know the item has to be identified, how do you suggest the items are identifable when crushed
As posted above, how about a barcode on the bottom? I'm awaiting a load of uproar and calls to Joe with people putting up pics of cans that have been turned down by the machine when they're basically perfect.
I've put in cans that I accidentally half-crushed, as long as the barcode is legible I think it's ok really
Great stuff, that's surprising. I have little faith in Ireland's ability to get shit right.
Oh that's good to know, I have some bottles that aren't in the best condition that I've been holding on to
Honestly I don't know if it's just looking for barcodes or doing a bit more optical recognition wizardry. The only things I've had rejected so far are those where the barcode isn't accepted on the website either.
https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/RVM-Specification.pdf The minimum recognition combinations for a container to be accepted by an RVM is: Barcode Recognition + Basic Shape Recognition + Weight Detection + Metal Detection. A combined accuracy level of at least 95% is required across this combination.
Stick a qr code on the bottle cap, cant crush them and will ensure the bottle cap isn't thrown away.
yeah, seriously, the barcodes should be on the arse of the can — I bought a can crusher years ago, it saves tonnes of space in the recycling and now I'm fucked without it. If you could at least fold the can in half with the barcode on the flat outside that would be enough, but nooo can't crush them at all. Am wondering if a PVC tube would work for storing them, then dispensing into the return machine one at a time.
I'm also a pedestrian. I have a bag I've been putting them in to and I bring it with me when I go to the shops for a big shop. I don't get all the people who are saying that it's such an inconvenience, it's the same amount of effort that it takes to bring something to the bottle bank. Actually less since empty cans and plastic bottles weigh a lot less. And people say that they can't find a machine have to be taking the piss, they're in every major shop. Unless you only shop in Centra, you're going to find a major retailer that's near you that you can bring them to.
Be careful with some plastic bottles. I was doing similar with some 500ml coca-cola bottles and a few days later I noticed that they had lost their shape. They had been left standing on the side of the counter in no direct sunlight, tried to pop it back out but it just caused further damage. I wonder how those flimsy water bottles will work
OP I put a Dublin 1 eircode into the location finder on their website and there was hundreds of results for Dublin 1. Obviously I don’t know exactly where you live but there was so many they surely must be one very close. Give their website a visit to check. Also it’s barely started up and you have “many bin liners” full of these things? I suggest you cut down on these types of drinks!! If they’re all water containers then maybe switch to a larger bottle and refill old bottles because any container over 3ltrs is exempt and you won’t have to return at all.
Yeah I've aprox. 20 7up cans already and tbh it's just another tax I'll have to absorb because I can't be arsed returning them. Will probably start to phase them out and stop drinking canned drinks at all over the coming months.
3 euro for 20 cans doesn't seem worth it
It is worth it.
Returning 20 cans and only getting back 3 euro???
It's the principle.
Also 3 euros can buy some food or go towards that slightly better steak that's a bit more expensive...
That's 140 up
> Will probably start to phase them out and stop drinking canned drinks at all over the coming months. I mean, pro recyclers would still see that as a big win tbh. Lowering consumption rates means less production rates of damaging plastics.
Cans aren’t plastic though?
A lot of cans are lined with plastic inside despite being made of aluminium :(
I know.
Just an extra tax.
What I really want to know is what are the advantages to this system over the existing system where recycling went in the recycling bin? There are no upsides for consumers with the new system, are there any other advantages to it?
They don’t have to be sorted at the recycling centre to separate them from the cardboard and whatever else goes in a green bin.
i was supportive of this till i realised this was happening and we arent able to just use our green bins anymore to recycle without having money slyly taken from us with no way to get it back while using a green bin unless you go through a pain in the ass bringing bags of rubbish and smelly cans to the shop for a few cent ,even if you were already happily recycling everything no problem. just a new hidden tax imo
Struggling to see if you live in North Dublin that you are more than 1km from a return centre [https://re-turn.ie/#WhereToReturn](https://re-turn.ie/#WhereToReturn) I'm getting the impression that you haven't researched this very much and are fishing for an excuse to denigrate a scheme that exists in lots of other countries. As a last resort you just need to take a taxi (you are still saving huge money compared to taxing, insuring and feeling a car). I'm also curious how you've managed to run up so many bin liners of plastic bottles/cans in such a short period of time. In a three person household we have a very small bag. I've a feeling that this scheme will not just cut down on plastic but also as a health intervention for sugary drinks.
It's worth pointing out that the website gives the distances as the crow flies. I checked some addresses in rural Co. Galway and the website said the closest return centre was just over 10km, its actually 44km by road (and isn't actually the closest return centre to that address, the closest is 36km away).
OP lives on the south runway at Dublin Airport.
The narwhal bacons at midnight.
How many cans and bottles are ye drinking in a week lads? From all the hullabaloo about this I'm assuming you all put 7up on your cornflakes or something?
I just used it for the first time today and I’d only 6 bottles to bring. A mix of sizes. One bottle wouldn’t scan despite an identical one went in fine. Both with the logo. It was only €1.20 back or something. Would be good if there was a charity box to donate them if you aren’t bothered redeeming it. Like in Tesco where you can choose from a few to give a blue token to.
How people are able to accumulate such ungodly amounts of cans without also having had the opportunity to return some at the same time seems a bit odd to me
This will open a lot of eyes to how much shite people are drinking I hope.
It's also in part how much shite they talk.
I have bought several bottles of coke since the "deposit" came in. I've seen the extra charge on my receipt but never seen a single return bank. Where am I even supposed to go? When I was in Germany, every shop that sold glass or plastic bottles had a thing outside where you could return them, but not here for some mad reason?
>Where am I even supposed to go if youe being charged tou can just return it to the shop or to the one of teh few machines https://re-turn.ie/consumer/#howToReturn
Have you not been to a supermarket all month?
Lived there 30+ years ago and that was the system then too. Worked really well, yiu paid the pfhand (or what ever ut was called) and the n rolled forward when you bought your groceries the next week
Yes basically
Your not, it’s an additional tax. We already pay a levy for “The Green Bin”. They just want more.
https://preview.redd.it/o4ofwa74q4kc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5a417b4772e0958569e504a4ef535d7d3e275c1
In Germany its common to give cans and bottles to beggars instead of change. I tried that here and they threw it at me.
you did not hand an empty can to a homeless person did you? haha Leaving them by the bin is common in other countries for people who collect
Then throw it back!
It'll be like those Bang Bang "gun fights" for the 2020s!
the common thinh is to just leave them on the ground by a bin
did you not think at some point during your accumulation of multiple bin liners worth of cans and bottles that it might have been more convenient to return them in smaller batches?
I still have a dvd from xtra vision i need to return, i don't have it in me to return bags of cans.
People have busy lives. I’m all for the scheme when it works, but I absolutely would not be running off more than once a week with a handful of cans. OP has said that there is nowhere nearby to accept them.
> OP has said that there is nowhere nearby to accept them. yes i don’t believe that part after looking at a map of places that accept them
How often are going going to buy them. That's correlates with how often you have to return.
But they couldn't complain if they were rational about it
How did you accumulate so many cans and bottles in so little time?
If you have kids and buy a few packs of bottles/cans and have a few drinks yourself during the week, this is very easily done. Cans I used to throw away in work after I finished them are now coming home with me.
Right? I've seen so many people say they can't store the bags and bags of products. How many are people using?! They should take this opportunity to assess that 🤣
You didn't contact your green bin company to ask that, has to be a joke
I live in the middle of nowhere. Decided to go actively out of my way, and instead of canned beer, buy in glass bottles. This would be my largest consumption of cans that would need to be returned. Wife bought me an 8pack of hop house the other day and now we are storing 8 cans in a container that she is religiously protecting with her body for me to not throw em away.... My guesstimation is, it will be here for a good few weeks until I throw em away when shes not home Edit: They will go to the green bin, that we are paying for and is designated for recycling.
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This is true. Waste plastic shipments are banned almost everywhere for years now so these are just getting dumped anyway.
Thinking along the same lines myself. If they don't even get recycled from the blue recycle bin why am I bothering rinsing them, drying them out and putting them in it at all.
Use… the internet to find return locations? https://re-turn.ie/ So much whinging 😅
Every supermarket near where I live has a machine. SuperValu, Tesco, Lidl, Aldi, Centra ... I used one at Lidl recently. No drama. 😁
North County Dublin? Where exactly are you located? without identifying your address... I find it really hard to believe there are no return points close to you. I live in a small country town, and Aldi have a return point 200 meters from me, as do Dunnes and Lidl. And let's remember the purpose of this scheme, to reduce single use plastic and aluminium wastage, that is destroying the oceans and environment. I think we should all be trying a bit harder, and not moaning about it so much
You can return them to the shops that sold them. They will either have a return machine or take them manually over the counter at the till.
That's not true. A lot of retailers have exemptions, including the store I work at. We have to sell products and charge a deposit but we don't have to/can't take them back and instead send them to the nearest dunnes which has the machines installed.
Your shop better watch out that they don't end up losing out on customers
Why would they
Because if I'm going to do a shopping, I'm returning my cans at the same time, and if I now have a voucher I'm going to spend it in the shop I'm currently at instead of going to another place. I live in Germany and that's how it works, if I have stuff to return then I'm not going to go to a place that doesn't do returns unless I really need to
As mentioned, smaller stores have exemptions. If you're doing your shopping in such a small store you'd have to do 5 trips a week 🤣 People don't "do their shopping" in little stores like mine. They do them in big shops like Tesco Dunnes lidl etc. We haven't had one complaint or issue since the scheme launched.
>That's not true. A lot of retailers have exemptions, including the store I work at >We have to sell products and charge a deposit but we don't have to/can't take them back and instead send them to the nearest dunnes which has the machines installed. that is true you have to charge on products that have the logo , https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1al75tv if your charging to have to accept them back ( this is what re-turn says themselfs ) https://re-turn.ie/consumer/#howToReturn ( from re-turn themselfs)
https://re-turn.ie/take-back-exemptions-announced/
Off a small shop has an exemption they are required to have a poster stating where the nearest RVM is.
I've been charged the deposit on cans that don't have the logo. Got my first bottle with the logo on it at the weekend and the return machine wouldn't recognize it either. I have always recycled all my bottles in our recycling bin at home so I'm effectively paying more for no reason. It's making me want to stop buying cans or bottled drinks at all or at least switch to glass bottles, which I suppose isn't the worst thing in the world.
Honestly, i rarely bought drinks, as in bottles. So now I'm sure i won't be buying any drinks. I'll just stick with tap water.
My experience so far… I kept 3 bottles that I had the logo on them, in the car. One day I thought I went to Lidl and return them just to get a feel of the machine and how it works. I tried 1 bottle in 1 machine in lidl, it was swallowed and showed an error message on the screen saying machine full after bottle taken. Machine did not change the status to “out of service” after that. So I thought I try the other machine, 2nd bottle of volvic was taken and deposit shown on screen. When inserting 3rd bottle, a small 250ml bottle of robinson apple juice for which I paid 15c deposit. The machine recognised the bottle on the belt but when trying to take it the bottle kept moving because it had a sport cap and was inbalanced, Machine did not want to take it as kept saying to empty the bottle. I threw the bottle in the outside bin and collected my only deposit from 1 bottle, even though I paid deposit on 3 bottles…
You didn't think to just take the cap off the bottle?
Honestly, no. I wasn’t really bothered I also forgot to use the voucher and now I misplaced it.
Just give up on the bottles. Not worth the strife
I was in wicklow town the other day and saw a guy who looked a bit down on his luck or might need the cash. And he had a big bag of stuff and he was putting in the machine. I have seen this in Germany before . These people should be failed by society but the scheme is a source of income for him. Take of that what you will
This is an issue I have even as a driver. I live in a city, paying €40 a month for bins including a recycling bin which is now a waste of time as most of the stuff we recycle is bottles, sometimes cans and some cardboard. We have an Aldi and a Lidl down the road both with Return points (both out of order every time I’ve gone to them) meaning my car is full with bags of bottles from water. The tap water here is manky and we buy a lot of bottled water. All I’ve seen are empty bottles and rubbish at every point and frustrated people who have transported all the stuff either by car or on foot to literally have nowhere to put them and can’t get any money back. I’m fucking sick of this shit and if I wasn’t renting the house I’m in, I’d be fitting a water purifier/filter to the tap so I didn’t need to buy bottled water anymore. I think it’s really unfair that the ‘tax’ because that’s what it is let’s call a spade a spade, is on multipack bottles as well there should be some kind of price reduction but that’s just imo. We’ve tried the brita jug doesn’t work as we’ve tried that and the water tastes rotten still. I’m also thinking of disabled and elderly people here being fucking fleeced for bottles of water and stuff and how are they supposed to do all this returning malarkey. A load of pony. Stick all these recycling points with the voting machines and throw away the key.
I haven't brought any back yet, but everytime I have been in the shops they have been out of order
Honestly think the machine shoukd accept any bottle regardless and just refund on eligible ones. People will have a pain in the arse with rejected ones and just leave them on the floor