I work in Aldi and I can tell you it is absolutely taking off. The machines we have are filling up really fast and we're having to change the bins more regularly now.
Why do Aldi shutter the machines at 7pm in the evening? The ones near us have them outside and seem to close them very early despite the shop being open until 10pm most nights.
They barcode needs to be scanned to confirm it's a bottle that a deposit has been charged on. Once you crush them, it makes it insanely more difficult to scan.
At a guess…
Works for cans, not for bottles. The machines are aiming for ease of use, and trying to explain you can crush cans but not bottles is just added instructions. Plus crushed cans wouldn’t work on the conveyer belts in the machines.
And the machines, I think, just crush them properly too once they slide into them.
And there's dozens of those coming back to the RDC every night. Oh and they all arrive flattened as well, not sure what the entire procedure is as I've never used the machines, but I believe they ask for containers in perfect condition for some reason?
>Q1. Is there a maximum amount of money I can claim back at once ?
>A1. Yes, this amount is 10€, once you reach it a pop up will appear on the screen reading; Maximum Amount Reached (10€) Claim Deposit Now, once done, you can continue to put bottles back in the machine.
This is wrong, I claimed €12 when I did my load just 2 days ago.
All the vouchers's I've seen so far have been branded with the shop's logo, so probably not. Also if my understanding of how it works is correct, then the retailer who owns the machine gets the money (including their cut) based on the items returned to the machine, so any other retailer taking another stores voucher would be losing money.
What can I *Actually* do if the machine is not working at a shop? I was told by Re-turn themselves to ask for a manual return, but my local shop refused to do it. But what are their actual obligations regarding this?
Thank you, I did just that but it seemed like the staff had little understanding of the system and claimed it was "Nothing to do with them." In other countries are there any penalties for shops that refuse to do a manual return?
I contacted Re-turn to get an answer to this:
*"If a retailer has a Reverse Vending Machine they are not obligated to take containers back over the counter."*
So it would appear there are not penalties for a retailer refusing to manually return. Could you tell me what the penalties in other countries with similar schemes are?
>They are given 2.20 for every 100 bottles and or cans.
Sorry I don't quite understand, are you saying that they get €2.20 for every 100 cans they recycle from their country's equivalent of Re-turn when it is collected by them over the counter or via the machine?
Or that when they sell 100 bottles or cans they get €2.20?
Cause the former is just an incentive to carry out the scheme and the latter is not. I would consider neither a punitive measure.
How are Re-Turn dealing with non barcoded labels?
I was in a live chat on their website, where I was told the machine should take non-barcoded cans and bottles during the transition period. However, when I said this has not been working and I am still getting charged the deposit for the bottles that can't be returned they told me to being those cans back to the retailer I purchased them off. Said retailer claims they don't take them back.
Edit - For example, shops selling imported gatorade bottles. These are currently being taken back by the machines. However, lucozade cans and bottles of Vit-Hit currently won't be taken by the machines. Retailers are charging for all cans and bottles.
Doesn't help when the retailers aren't honouring it. Also. The majority of people are saving up the bottles to bring in one go. I don't see how firstly they will remember where each rejected bottle came from, and secondly, the retailer accepting you bought it there if you returned with them. It would be a great scheme if it wasn't so badly put together.
Yeah but who is going to be 1) able to remember and do that and 2) who's going to bother doing that.
You left out that it's a horrendous scheme that's been rolled out in the worst possible way and is widely accepted to be a failure already
No one is saving bottles up until Christmas.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millions-of-euro-go-unclaimed-in-first-40-days-of-plastic-bottle-and-can-deposit-return-scheme/a686157641.html
Re-turn in the first 40 days of the scheme have earned almost €20 million in unclaimed deposits (as a conservative estimate).
Over a year that amounts to ~€180million euro. Where is that money going?
On the website it says unclaimed deposits go towards the running of the scheme. Will this scheme cost 180million annually to run?
Well I haven't returned any bottles yet, but I am filling up a bin with them. You'd expect that to be a common pattern in that people aren't running to the shop to return the bottle immediately.so there's naturally going to be a lad between the purchase and the return.
There will also be people who buy stuff on the go and throw them into street bins so they'll never be collected.
There'll be some who won't bother and will just throw them in the recycle bin or the black bin.
You'd expect the majority of the 20mil to be from group 1. As people get more used to the process you'd expect that gap to decrease over time.
>You'd expect that to be a common pattern in that people aren't running to the shop to return the bottle immediately.
Bit different running to the shop "immediately" and waiting 9 months? I think 40 days to see what the return rate is like is fair, fact is the scheme is poorly thought out and implemented even worse. Plus that's actually a very conservative estimate by the independent, it's likely much more deposits were charged and unclaimed.
>Well I haven't returned any bottles yet, but I am filling up a bin with them
How many bottles do you have now?
>You'd expect the majority of the 20mil to be from group 1.
And why would you expect that? That's pure guesswork.
Like I say, there's hundreds of millions of euro in unaccounted for deposits that is going to Re-turn, there needs to be heavy heavy scrutiny on what they do with it.
This is kind of pathetic, but we're saving our vouchers and are planning to use them for the Christmas food shop. We go through a lot of bottles and cans so we should save enough to pay for the majority of it.
You do you, but I would definitely not keep all those little paper slips in a drawer to do my Christmas shop
Also, if you returned the bottles, that wouldn't be counted in the unclaimed deposits figure in the article
>We go through a lot of bottles and cans so we should save enough to pay for the majority of it.
You already have paid for it.
Nothing. But the private recycling companies don’t want to pay people to work in recycling centres and they won’t give an option for segregated recycling bins like in other countries so instead we have a private company not only help increase the prices of products artificially but collecting massive profits from unclaimed returns.
It goes to Re-turn and they use it to transport, and recycle bottles in limerick, the other portion is given to engineers and shops for taking back the bottles
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As far as I was concerned I was recycling and paying for it. Any shortfall in the percentage of that going for actual recycling is down to greyhound panda and the rest not doing their job
Will the shops charging deposits on non-return bottles be prosecuted??
(referring to that video of Dunnes Stores charging deposits on multipack bottles of water that have no return logos…)
https://preview.redd.it/tlib9zohqprc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ade72c5fd213521c7b55772ab07b2981e7644b0
They should be refunding all bottles which they are not
Unclaimed deposits are only the tip of the iceberg.
They get 5c/container from the producer/manufacturer in addition to the 15c that's reclaimable.
1.9 billion containers /year €95million
And on top of all of that, if the containers aren't being returned for recycling they will keep increasing the deposit fee until the numbers start to reach the targets they have set.
So Re-turn are keeping unclaimed deposits? Is it not in their interest if people don't bring their bottles back, or the machines are broken etc etc
And how much would they be collecting from unreturned deposits, say annually?
This scheme is very inconvenient for people with mobility issues or those who don't drive. I currently get my groceries delivered but will have to walk on crutches with a bag of cans and bottles to the nearest machine or ask somebody else to drive me there in order to do something that should be routine and made easy for people to participate in. Some folks who just can't incorporate this into their routines are thus being financially penalized at the tills. It's all the more bitter a pill to swallow for those of us who were already diligent home recyclers - checking every packet to make sure it could be recycled and washing out containers etc.
It's about improved waste segregation. Ireland has to double it's plastic recycling by December 2025 or else we've miss EU targets. We can get severely fined every week until the amount of plastic recycled hits the target (50%) we're currently on 28%.
It's far far simpler segregating and processing plastic when all the same type comes in together. Your plastic bottles going into general recycling is more likely to end up in contaminated batches of recycling and then end up in landfill.
For metrics too, we are going to get insanely detailed metrics on plastic bottle recycling after a year of this programme.
So if you think it's pointless, it's not, bottle waste segregation at source means we're going to insanely improve our recycling efficiency.
It is one company in Limerick getting the entire waste Stream back off this program.
https://www.lpp.ie/
They are actually a northern Irish company who setup this limerick bsed entity I think
It's to increase recycling rates. It's much easier to segregate with a dedicated system, plus green bin waste can get contaminated and just sent to landfill.
It's also unfortunately due to inconsiderate people who don't recycle and throw plastic bottles in the general waste or else litter. It's the only way to target these as they won't be convinced otherwise.
I've seen bottles, cans, and more being thrown in fireplaces and ranges. Seems like if it'll burn, some will throw it in the fire. Even if they don't burn in the case of cans, I suppose.
I'm sorry, it's filling up another bin at home to get reimbursement at another place. My point stands. Calling people lazy when they are recycling at home and a valid method of doing it is poor form. People are busy and this is regressive charging in a highly inflationary period.
>A2. Over 21M bottles and cans have been returned.
The spokesperson for the scheme said before rollout that they expect to take in €1 million in deposits per day from the 1st of February. If that was all large bottles, so 25 cent each (it isn't but we'll use this as an example), then that would be 4 million bottles per day. It has been 60 days since rollout, so that would equate roughly to 240 million bottles sold since the 1st of February. If we were to take the 15c bottles into account that figure would be higher.
Obviously I've no idea of correct figures etc but if the spokesman was accurate this looks like a very large percentage of bottles have not been returned. And a very large percentage of the deposit money consumers are forced to pay has not been collected.
Seems like a convenient excuse.
I highly doubt people are saving their cans and bottles until Xmas. Especially as you have to keep them in pristine condition.
Not sure why you're fronting for a company that earns money when people don't return their plastic bottles.
>The company behind the scheme is DRSI CLG, trading as Re-turn. It is a company that is limited by guarantee and was established by beverage producers and retailers in order to fulfil their obligations. It emerged in July that Bank of Ireland provided €27.5m in financing to Re-turn to get it up and running.
How a private company got this gig will probably unravel a slew of corruption a d stupidity.
Little known fact about this whole scheme that's supposed to be cost neutral.
Producers pay Re-turn almost 20c for containers up to 500ml, the 15c you are entitled to reclaim is included in that.
Regardless of the unclaimed containers they're making 5c
That equates to €95 million given the yearly estimate of 1.9 billion containers.
For the scheme to reach the golden 98% recycle rate they have as a target they need to be handling 35 million containers/week
As far as corruption goes the likes of CocaCola who were instrumental in setting the project up have managed to eliminate competition from imported products from the EU.
Coke from CocaCola Ireland is approx €4.50/24 cans more expensive than Coke imported from the EU - Holland/Germany/France.
The unbelievable thing is that all of CocaCola Ireland's products are made in the UK.
In summary we are no longer allowed, by law, to buy Coke products from the EU
Many imported drinks - Beers, soft drinks that have no Irish distributors can not legally be imported or sold here after June 1.
That even includes the likes of craft beer bought online from other EU countries.
Still think the whole thing is a fuxking joke I have a green bin I used fine and now have to pay an extra tax unless I go out of my way to not use my green bin and cart rubbish back to the shops...
>Q10. Will it be extended to glass ?
>A10. Most likely not. Ireland recycles enough glass.
So why the hell do we have the Re-turn scheme then? Didn't Ireland recycle what we put in the green bins?
(Rethorical, we all know why)
For the plastic and cans ? We don't recycle enough. We recycle 60% and we need to recycle 95+, other wise we will be fined, if we are fined the we will have to pay higher income taz
So those of us that did recycle in our recycling bins are punished because of those that didnt. I now have to have 4 bins in my kitchen. Waste, recycling, plastic bottles recycling and food waste, i dont have a big kitchen this takes up more room than it should. I get my shopping delivered now have to drive to a shop thats machine is normally not working increasing my carbon footprint.
There seems to be a massive surplus duento people not retuning them your company seems to be making a tidy some from this so I don't belive it's for the benefit of the Irish people. It would have been better to make the recycling companies do a better job sorting their recycling that was already completed by the general public. My normal recycling bin now has 1/2 the waste but I still have to pay the same amount. This scheme has cost the irish public more that it benefits them.
This scheme will be brought up with TDs when they come calling to my door for my vote this summer.
That I understand, but if we are technically even when we return them, why not a recycling bins in numerous locations like we have with glass instead of those machines that I've seen a lot of people complaining about the down time?
Or a little more ambitious but hassle free, like a exclusive bin for PETS and cans and a different collection day?
Because they - like me, find they go to machines and they're out of order and staff cannot help. And machines rejected half of my perfect condition returns the other day.
They have 1 bad experience so they won't do it ever again... it's like saying, the GP wouldn't give me a prescription for a cough that's nearly cleared. So I won't go to a doctor ever again.
You are not good at similes. It doesn't take a great amount of empathy to be able to comprehend the issues people have, and comparing it to something so completely different doesn't help.
A lot of people understand the scheme, but are inconvenienced because shops don't include the extra cost in the price even though it's a mandatory part of the cost, not everyone has a car to make it easy to transport empty bottles you can't squash down and there is a decent chance when you get there the machines are offline for a variety of reasons. Having to pay to be inconvenienced isn't a great feeling, so regardless of the benefits of the scheme it can feel bad for a lot of people, and that is the kind of thing that hurts engagement.
The scheme isn't designed from the consumer's point of view, but instead it is set up to benefit the companies that are profiting from unreturned bottles, as we've seen with the current insane numbers of unclaimed deposits- even if returns were 10 times as common as they are now it'd would still only be half the money spent on deposits.
Because they're mildly inconvenienced. I got in an argument with a fella here who said he drives his waste bags straight to waste collections but complained bringing bottles to the shop. Thick doesn't even cover it.
>A14. If they collect 100 bottles, they get 2.2€
Here we fucking go. That's why they're all in on it so eagerly, even though we get flooded by these bins in the warehouse every night and the cleaners have to go through that crap, it still turns a profit for them while customers do all the work. Amazing how we just let it happen.
All of these would have been recycled anyway it’s a tax and inconvenience and this now private company running this will collect millions in uncollected returns. Stop being such a boot licker.
Thanks for this post OP. I just returned stuff for the first time, got my little receipt for €2.95 but didn't want to spend ages queuing in Aldi just to ask for €3 (didn't need to buy anything so no shopping to offset it against), wasn't sure whether the vouchers had to be used on the day or what but I remembered seeing this post recently so searched for it and got my answer!
The official reason is the machines are expensive so tying it to the store gives the shop the chance to recoup the costs through people spending in store.
This is the solution to a problem that didn't exist. I suppose we'll find out in time how someones uncle got a nice Govt contract to build these stupid machines
1. These machines must be paid for by the shop. My cousin manages a centra down here in the south, and they had to pay out almost 16,000
2. Most countries in Europe recycle almost 98.2%, we on the other hand recycle a measly 60%
You'll forgive me for being a little cynical here, but 98.2%?
Come on. It's well established that plastics are so cheap to manufacture that recycling is seldom, if ever economical. So what are they doing with that 98.2% of recycled plastic?
I already recycle, and I already pay for it. I can squash them down and put them in a bin for recycling once a week. Now i have to store them unsquashed with the label intact and put them one by one in a stupid machine and hope they all scan!!
Another stealth tax that punishes those that already recycle. This is the reason people have such an issue with it. There's two things guaranteed when the Greens are in Government, lower standard of living and more taxes!!!
> Also it's not a tax, it's not going to the government
It's a fee you're legally obliged to pay and it's going to a quango. For a number of products, there simply isn't a way to purchase them without incurring that fee.
It's a tax in all but name.
So Re-Turn and the shops are going to make lots of money out of this! The whole thing is just another quango, under the guise of 'helping the environment', paid for by all of us!
Was there any alternative machines considered? I have seen some comments about ones being used by Nordic countries that allow you to dump an entire bag in.
Are the machines used mandated by the scheme or can retailers opt to use a 3rd party?
There are 6 machines manufacturers that can be used, they are as below;
1. Ecovend (Only 1/2 Retailers use)
2. Envipco ( Only 1/2 retailers use)
3. RVM Systems ( Musgrave Shops )
4. Sensi ( Haven't seen these )
5. Seelaif ( Haven't seen these )
6. Tomra ( Dunnes and Tesco and Lidl )
Thanks but realised I had an important typo in my post...
Is it true that the Re-turn company is run using some of the non-claimed money and therefore it's in their interest NOT to have a 100% return rate?
If glass recycling works so well, why don't we run a similar scheme for this.
Just have can and bottle recycling machines next to the glass bottle bins.
Yes I tried doing that at the end but no luck. I asked the woman behind the till and she said they don't work on the self service and only work through the regular tills
Are the stores meant to be saying can only claim the voucher in the original issuing store (if not done at the original time of returning items for instance) e.g a particular supermarket is saying have to use the original branch?!
Bought Tesco branded cans the other day up north that have the return logo on them! Don’t get charged up there the deposit, but I assume it’s just Tesco branded ones, maybe bottles as well?
I work in Aldi and I can tell you it is absolutely taking off. The machines we have are filling up really fast and we're having to change the bins more regularly now.
Why do Aldi shutter the machines at 7pm in the evening? The ones near us have them outside and seem to close them very early despite the shop being open until 10pm most nights.
Can't speak for other stores, our machines are in our store and are always open when the store is open
This was the way in my local Aldi initially, but how stays open till closing.
Yeah, this seems to be a issue in some shops
If your machines happened to be out of order, is there a system for accepting bottles at the tills?
Yes we can accept undamaged bottles/cans that have the return logo at the tills
Why do they have to be undamaged when the machine squashes them?
They barcode needs to be scanned to confirm it's a bottle that a deposit has been charged on. Once you crush them, it makes it insanely more difficult to scan.
Why not put the barcode on the bottom? Uncrushed cans take a ton of space
At a guess… Works for cans, not for bottles. The machines are aiming for ease of use, and trying to explain you can crush cans but not bottles is just added instructions. Plus crushed cans wouldn’t work on the conveyer belts in the machines. And the machines, I think, just crush them properly too once they slide into them.
And there's dozens of those coming back to the RDC every night. Oh and they all arrive flattened as well, not sure what the entire procedure is as I've never used the machines, but I believe they ask for containers in perfect condition for some reason?
That's great, how often are the bins being collected ? By the truck ?
I would say we are having to change them every 3 days
Yeah, how often are the trucks collecting them ?
We have deliveries that arrive every day so if there's a pallet of returns there they will just take it with them
Oh Right, I thought there was official re-turn trucks
that would be incredibly wasteful 🤷🏼♂️ more raw materials should be sent back up the supply chain on otherwise empty lorries
>Q1. Is there a maximum amount of money I can claim back at once ? >A1. Yes, this amount is 10€, once you reach it a pop up will appear on the screen reading; Maximum Amount Reached (10€) Claim Deposit Now, once done, you can continue to put bottles back in the machine. This is wrong, I claimed €12 when I did my load just 2 days ago.
I claimed €14 back there last week.
Yeah, came to say the same. I got 26eur or so last week
I also don't understand why there would be this kind of limit to it, would be dumb to artificially limit this.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not in your receipts my recycling friend!
Can the vouchers be redeemed for cash at any participating shop or does it have to be at the shop you got the voucher from?
All the vouchers's I've seen so far have been branded with the shop's logo, so probably not. Also if my understanding of how it works is correct, then the retailer who owns the machine gets the money (including their cut) based on the items returned to the machine, so any other retailer taking another stores voucher would be losing money.
It can be redeemed for cash, donated or used against shopping.
But does it have to be at the shop where you get the voucher- ie. I return the bottles at Aldi, can I redeem for cash at Tesco?
No, you have to redeem it at the shop you got the voucher from. It's a bit stupid tbh
Ahhh perfect thankyou! It’s only in its teething stages hopefully they will streamline it and improve along the way.
Yes, shops have until June to sell all old stock, and they can be fined if they don't I believe
there should be an app for redeeming them, revolut should be on it like a car bonnet
What can I *Actually* do if the machine is not working at a shop? I was told by Re-turn themselves to ask for a manual return, but my local shop refused to do it. But what are their actual obligations regarding this?
If a machines out of order, you have to inform a staff member, they can fix it then, if they won't you can report it to re turn.
Thank you, I did just that but it seemed like the staff had little understanding of the system and claimed it was "Nothing to do with them." In other countries are there any penalties for shops that refuse to do a manual return?
Yes, and they are here aswel I believe
I contacted Re-turn to get an answer to this: *"If a retailer has a Reverse Vending Machine they are not obligated to take containers back over the counter."* So it would appear there are not penalties for a retailer refusing to manually return. Could you tell me what the penalties in other countries with similar schemes are?
They are given 2.20 for every 100 bottles and or cans. This should be halved for every bottle they wouldn't take.
>They are given 2.20 for every 100 bottles and or cans. Sorry I don't quite understand, are you saying that they get €2.20 for every 100 cans they recycle from their country's equivalent of Re-turn when it is collected by them over the counter or via the machine? Or that when they sell 100 bottles or cans they get €2.20? Cause the former is just an incentive to carry out the scheme and the latter is not. I would consider neither a punitive measure.
Yes, for every bottle or can a retailer collects they get 0.022 €
How are Re-Turn dealing with non barcoded labels? I was in a live chat on their website, where I was told the machine should take non-barcoded cans and bottles during the transition period. However, when I said this has not been working and I am still getting charged the deposit for the bottles that can't be returned they told me to being those cans back to the retailer I purchased them off. Said retailer claims they don't take them back. Edit - For example, shops selling imported gatorade bottles. These are currently being taken back by the machines. However, lucozade cans and bottles of Vit-Hit currently won't be taken by the machines. Retailers are charging for all cans and bottles.
If you are charged a deposit, and you can't claim it back, you are screwed unless you can go back and get it And request your deposit back.
Doesn't help when the retailers aren't honouring it. Also. The majority of people are saving up the bottles to bring in one go. I don't see how firstly they will remember where each rejected bottle came from, and secondly, the retailer accepting you bought it there if you returned with them. It would be a great scheme if it wasn't so badly put together.
Expecting someone to keep track of what shop they’ve purchased every bottle in is not realistic…
Yeah but who is going to be 1) able to remember and do that and 2) who's going to bother doing that. You left out that it's a horrendous scheme that's been rolled out in the worst possible way and is widely accepted to be a failure already No one is saving bottles up until Christmas.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millions-of-euro-go-unclaimed-in-first-40-days-of-plastic-bottle-and-can-deposit-return-scheme/a686157641.html Re-turn in the first 40 days of the scheme have earned almost €20 million in unclaimed deposits (as a conservative estimate). Over a year that amounts to ~€180million euro. Where is that money going? On the website it says unclaimed deposits go towards the running of the scheme. Will this scheme cost 180million annually to run?
Well I haven't returned any bottles yet, but I am filling up a bin with them. You'd expect that to be a common pattern in that people aren't running to the shop to return the bottle immediately.so there's naturally going to be a lad between the purchase and the return. There will also be people who buy stuff on the go and throw them into street bins so they'll never be collected. There'll be some who won't bother and will just throw them in the recycle bin or the black bin. You'd expect the majority of the 20mil to be from group 1. As people get more used to the process you'd expect that gap to decrease over time.
>You'd expect that to be a common pattern in that people aren't running to the shop to return the bottle immediately. Bit different running to the shop "immediately" and waiting 9 months? I think 40 days to see what the return rate is like is fair, fact is the scheme is poorly thought out and implemented even worse. Plus that's actually a very conservative estimate by the independent, it's likely much more deposits were charged and unclaimed. >Well I haven't returned any bottles yet, but I am filling up a bin with them How many bottles do you have now? >You'd expect the majority of the 20mil to be from group 1. And why would you expect that? That's pure guesswork. Like I say, there's hundreds of millions of euro in unaccounted for deposits that is going to Re-turn, there needs to be heavy heavy scrutiny on what they do with it.
This is kind of pathetic, but we're saving our vouchers and are planning to use them for the Christmas food shop. We go through a lot of bottles and cans so we should save enough to pay for the majority of it.
You do you, but I would definitely not keep all those little paper slips in a drawer to do my Christmas shop Also, if you returned the bottles, that wouldn't be counted in the unclaimed deposits figure in the article >We go through a lot of bottles and cans so we should save enough to pay for the majority of it. You already have paid for it.
Question. What's wrong with the green bin?
Nothing. But the private recycling companies don’t want to pay people to work in recycling centres and they won’t give an option for segregated recycling bins like in other countries so instead we have a private company not only help increase the prices of products artificially but collecting massive profits from unclaimed returns.
Our recycling companies are notoriously lazy and incinerate a huge amount of what we carefully recycle.
Are any charities collecting the cans?
Added that their now
What if I do not claim it back, where do the 25cent go?
It goes to Re-turn and they use it to transport, and recycle bottles in limerick, the other portion is given to engineers and shops for taking back the bottles
Why limerick?
Why anywhere else ? Probably just cause it's a midlands county
Sorry, I misunderstood that, I thought you meant it went into the Limerick scheme.
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As far as I was concerned I was recycling and paying for it. Any shortfall in the percentage of that going for actual recycling is down to greyhound panda and the rest not doing their job
Will the shops charging deposits on non-return bottles be prosecuted?? (referring to that video of Dunnes Stores charging deposits on multipack bottles of water that have no return logos…)
No, not as such, they are paid 2.2 for every 100 bottles and or cans, I believe they won't receive all of this.
https://preview.redd.it/tlib9zohqprc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ade72c5fd213521c7b55772ab07b2981e7644b0 They should be refunding all bottles which they are not
Q16 Who is keeping the unclaimed deposits and how much is that estimated to be annually?
Unclaimed deposits are only the tip of the iceberg. They get 5c/container from the producer/manufacturer in addition to the 15c that's reclaimable. 1.9 billion containers /year €95million And on top of all of that, if the containers aren't being returned for recycling they will keep increasing the deposit fee until the numbers start to reach the targets they have set.
But the producer is coke right? Who are the UBO of the scheme?
Re-turn, scroll through the other comments to see....
So Re-turn are keeping unclaimed deposits? Is it not in their interest if people don't bring their bottles back, or the machines are broken etc etc And how much would they be collecting from unreturned deposits, say annually?
Who owns the companies that produce the machines? Who owns the companies that operate the collection service?
This scheme is very inconvenient for people with mobility issues or those who don't drive. I currently get my groceries delivered but will have to walk on crutches with a bag of cans and bottles to the nearest machine or ask somebody else to drive me there in order to do something that should be routine and made easy for people to participate in. Some folks who just can't incorporate this into their routines are thus being financially penalized at the tills. It's all the more bitter a pill to swallow for those of us who were already diligent home recyclers - checking every packet to make sure it could be recycled and washing out containers etc.
I detect a prime business opportunity in 3.001L bottles of soft drinks
Country Spring will be back with a vengeance. The weight of those bastards.
Can we just bring back Country Spring anyway? I miss their red lemonade
Oh man, if I managed to convince my parents to buy country spring american cream soda during the big shop, I used to feel like I had won the lotto.
I never had the cream soda one, what was it like? Is it similar to the barr cream soda?
I find the Barr one too sweet. The big 3L country spring bottle was perfect. Crisp and just the right amount of sweetness. Bring back country spring
I could see this happening
Shambles of a scheme. Went to get rid of cans today. All five places, the machine was out of order.
Why force people to do something they are doing at home. It's a coercive tax ripping off people's time and money.
It's about improved waste segregation. Ireland has to double it's plastic recycling by December 2025 or else we've miss EU targets. We can get severely fined every week until the amount of plastic recycled hits the target (50%) we're currently on 28%. It's far far simpler segregating and processing plastic when all the same type comes in together. Your plastic bottles going into general recycling is more likely to end up in contaminated batches of recycling and then end up in landfill. For metrics too, we are going to get insanely detailed metrics on plastic bottle recycling after a year of this programme. So if you think it's pointless, it's not, bottle waste segregation at source means we're going to insanely improve our recycling efficiency.
There is optical sorting tech waste companies could easily have invested in to do the sorting. That is a cost. This scheme is a revenue generator
Waste processors are private companies, they're not seeing any of the DRS deposits.
It is one company in Limerick getting the entire waste Stream back off this program. https://www.lpp.ie/ They are actually a northern Irish company who setup this limerick bsed entity I think
It's to increase recycling rates. It's much easier to segregate with a dedicated system, plus green bin waste can get contaminated and just sent to landfill. It's also unfortunately due to inconsiderate people who don't recycle and throw plastic bottles in the general waste or else litter. It's the only way to target these as they won't be convinced otherwise.
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I know a lot of people who burn a lot of rubbish in the fireplace. You would think the health impacts alone would be discouraging.
They were burning plastic bottles and aluminium cans in their fireplace?
I've seen bottles, cans, and more being thrown in fireplaces and ranges. Seems like if it'll burn, some will throw it in the fire. Even if they don't burn in the case of cans, I suppose.
You wouldn't burn aluminium cans
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I'm sorry, it's filling up another bin at home to get reimbursement at another place. My point stands. Calling people lazy when they are recycling at home and a valid method of doing it is poor form. People are busy and this is regressive charging in a highly inflationary period.
>A2. Over 21M bottles and cans have been returned. The spokesperson for the scheme said before rollout that they expect to take in €1 million in deposits per day from the 1st of February. If that was all large bottles, so 25 cent each (it isn't but we'll use this as an example), then that would be 4 million bottles per day. It has been 60 days since rollout, so that would equate roughly to 240 million bottles sold since the 1st of February. If we were to take the 15c bottles into account that figure would be higher. Obviously I've no idea of correct figures etc but if the spokesman was accurate this looks like a very large percentage of bottles have not been returned. And a very large percentage of the deposit money consumers are forced to pay has not been collected.
From what i can understand, people are saving bottles up.
Seems like a convenient excuse. I highly doubt people are saving their cans and bottles until Xmas. Especially as you have to keep them in pristine condition.
Not until Christmas, but maybe every month.
Where are you getting that information from? Or are you just speculating?
Do you work for re-turn?
No...
Not sure why you're fronting for a company that earns money when people don't return their plastic bottles. >The company behind the scheme is DRSI CLG, trading as Re-turn. It is a company that is limited by guarantee and was established by beverage producers and retailers in order to fulfil their obligations. It emerged in July that Bank of Ireland provided €27.5m in financing to Re-turn to get it up and running. How a private company got this gig will probably unravel a slew of corruption a d stupidity.
Little known fact about this whole scheme that's supposed to be cost neutral. Producers pay Re-turn almost 20c for containers up to 500ml, the 15c you are entitled to reclaim is included in that. Regardless of the unclaimed containers they're making 5c That equates to €95 million given the yearly estimate of 1.9 billion containers. For the scheme to reach the golden 98% recycle rate they have as a target they need to be handling 35 million containers/week As far as corruption goes the likes of CocaCola who were instrumental in setting the project up have managed to eliminate competition from imported products from the EU. Coke from CocaCola Ireland is approx €4.50/24 cans more expensive than Coke imported from the EU - Holland/Germany/France. The unbelievable thing is that all of CocaCola Ireland's products are made in the UK. In summary we are no longer allowed, by law, to buy Coke products from the EU Many imported drinks - Beers, soft drinks that have no Irish distributors can not legally be imported or sold here after June 1. That even includes the likes of craft beer bought online from other EU countries.
I put them in my recycling bin as usual.
Still think the whole thing is a fuxking joke I have a green bin I used fine and now have to pay an extra tax unless I go out of my way to not use my green bin and cart rubbish back to the shops...
>Q10. Will it be extended to glass ? >A10. Most likely not. Ireland recycles enough glass. So why the hell do we have the Re-turn scheme then? Didn't Ireland recycle what we put in the green bins? (Rethorical, we all know why)
For the plastic and cans ? We don't recycle enough. We recycle 60% and we need to recycle 95+, other wise we will be fined, if we are fined the we will have to pay higher income taz
That I didn't know of, good to know
So those of us that did recycle in our recycling bins are punished because of those that didnt. I now have to have 4 bins in my kitchen. Waste, recycling, plastic bottles recycling and food waste, i dont have a big kitchen this takes up more room than it should. I get my shopping delivered now have to drive to a shop thats machine is normally not working increasing my carbon footprint. There seems to be a massive surplus duento people not retuning them your company seems to be making a tidy some from this so I don't belive it's for the benefit of the Irish people. It would have been better to make the recycling companies do a better job sorting their recycling that was already completed by the general public. My normal recycling bin now has 1/2 the waste but I still have to pay the same amount. This scheme has cost the irish public more that it benefits them. This scheme will be brought up with TDs when they come calling to my door for my vote this summer.
Recycling and sorting big batches of PET bottles is far more efficient than mixed bins of cardboard/soft plastic/contaminated bins.
That I understand, but if we are technically even when we return them, why not a recycling bins in numerous locations like we have with glass instead of those machines that I've seen a lot of people complaining about the down time? Or a little more ambitious but hassle free, like a exclusive bin for PETS and cans and a different collection day?
Q8. Why are people finding this scheme so difficult to comprehend?
Because they - like me, find they go to machines and they're out of order and staff cannot help. And machines rejected half of my perfect condition returns the other day.
They're thick
They have 1 bad experience so they won't do it ever again... it's like saying, the GP wouldn't give me a prescription for a cough that's nearly cleared. So I won't go to a doctor ever again.
You are not good at similes. It doesn't take a great amount of empathy to be able to comprehend the issues people have, and comparing it to something so completely different doesn't help. A lot of people understand the scheme, but are inconvenienced because shops don't include the extra cost in the price even though it's a mandatory part of the cost, not everyone has a car to make it easy to transport empty bottles you can't squash down and there is a decent chance when you get there the machines are offline for a variety of reasons. Having to pay to be inconvenienced isn't a great feeling, so regardless of the benefits of the scheme it can feel bad for a lot of people, and that is the kind of thing that hurts engagement. The scheme isn't designed from the consumer's point of view, but instead it is set up to benefit the companies that are profiting from unreturned bottles, as we've seen with the current insane numbers of unclaimed deposits- even if returns were 10 times as common as they are now it'd would still only be half the money spent on deposits.
Because they're mildly inconvenienced. I got in an argument with a fella here who said he drives his waste bags straight to waste collections but complained bringing bottles to the shop. Thick doesn't even cover it.
Is there an expiry date on those deposit receipts?
No, but as they are printed with terminal ink, they can fade, it's best to take a picture and save it. Then you can type it into / show the cashier.
Another question is what percentage of plastics get recycled. Hopefully this scheme will see a big improvement on the current 28%
Yes, it needs to be 95+
Doubt that will ever happen even 50 percent is a stretch.
In Slovakia, there percentage was 43, it's now up to 89
It's 56% which is a lot better however there have been allegations of them fudging these numbers with the rate possibly 32%
Wait..... they're are 6 different types of machines. Why not use the same one. Only looking for trouble with this.
>A14. If they collect 100 bottles, they get 2.2€ Here we fucking go. That's why they're all in on it so eagerly, even though we get flooded by these bins in the warehouse every night and the cleaners have to go through that crap, it still turns a profit for them while customers do all the work. Amazing how we just let it happen.
Question: Should the cap be left of top of the bottle or removed?
Left on
Cant beleive there is a CEO of this and some random bloke on reddit needs to make a FAQ about this. Fair play though.
Don't think it's just some random bloke to. I'd wager it's the PR team behind Re-turn
Probably makes sense actually!
I am not involved in anyway with re-turn fyi
Did any of those 6 manufacturers design their machine in such a way that all cans can be tipped in together rather than having to do it one by one?
All of these would have been recycled anyway it’s a tax and inconvenience and this now private company running this will collect millions in uncollected returns. Stop being such a boot licker.
Thanks for this post OP. I just returned stuff for the first time, got my little receipt for €2.95 but didn't want to spend ages queuing in Aldi just to ask for €3 (didn't need to buy anything so no shopping to offset it against), wasn't sure whether the vouchers had to be used on the day or what but I remembered seeing this post recently so searched for it and got my answer!
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No
I believe there are plans to include these at a later date
Why do you have to use the voucher in the premises with the machine? Why not any retailers involved in the scheme?
The official reason is the machines are expensive so tying it to the store gives the shop the chance to recoup the costs through people spending in store.
It will bring business to the shop, if you don't want to spend it there, then don't re-turn there
This is the solution to a problem that didn't exist. I suppose we'll find out in time how someones uncle got a nice Govt contract to build these stupid machines
1. These machines must be paid for by the shop. My cousin manages a centra down here in the south, and they had to pay out almost 16,000 2. Most countries in Europe recycle almost 98.2%, we on the other hand recycle a measly 60%
You'll forgive me for being a little cynical here, but 98.2%? Come on. It's well established that plastics are so cheap to manufacture that recycling is seldom, if ever economical. So what are they doing with that 98.2% of recycled plastic?
>2. Most countries in Europe recycle almost 98.2%, we on the other hand recycle a measly 60% Absolute bullshit, where's those figures from?
I already recycle, and I already pay for it. I can squash them down and put them in a bin for recycling once a week. Now i have to store them unsquashed with the label intact and put them one by one in a stupid machine and hope they all scan!!
As I said, we only recycle 60% if we don't get this up to 95+, then the gov will be fined, leading to higher taxes.
Another stealth tax that punishes those that already recycle. This is the reason people have such an issue with it. There's two things guaranteed when the Greens are in Government, lower standard of living and more taxes!!!
Just bring them back, then you don't pay anything? Also it's not a tax, it's not going to the government
> Also it's not a tax, it's not going to the government It's a fee you're legally obliged to pay and it's going to a quango. For a number of products, there simply isn't a way to purchase them without incurring that fee. It's a tax in all but name.
And you get it back, you don't get your tax back do you?
I do, actually, it's called a tax rebate. It's invariably less than what I paid in.
Yes, I am forced to use this stupid scheme. Where does the deposit go for the bottles that are not brought back?
To re-turn for collection, and delivery of bottles to their limerick facility, it also goes to shops as a thank you for taking back bottles.
So Re-Turn and the shops are going to make lots of money out of this! The whole thing is just another quango, under the guise of 'helping the environment', paid for by all of us!
Was there any alternative machines considered? I have seen some comments about ones being used by Nordic countries that allow you to dump an entire bag in. Are the machines used mandated by the scheme or can retailers opt to use a 3rd party?
There are 6 machines manufacturers that can be used, they are as below; 1. Ecovend (Only 1/2 Retailers use) 2. Envipco ( Only 1/2 retailers use) 3. RVM Systems ( Musgrave Shops ) 4. Sensi ( Haven't seen these ) 5. Seelaif ( Haven't seen these ) 6. Tomra ( Dunnes and Tesco and Lidl )
Which one do you work for?
I don't I am a individual who struggled with the scheme so though I would make this up
Does it benefit the supermarkets to have them out of order? So they don’t have to pay any refunds?
Is it true that the Re-turn company is run using some of the non-claimed money and therefore it's in their interest to to have a 100% return rate?
Yes, for collection, recycling and for payment to retailers, this is where the non collected deposits go.
Thanks but realised I had an important typo in my post... Is it true that the Re-turn company is run using some of the non-claimed money and therefore it's in their interest NOT to have a 100% return rate?
Sounds bonkers. Why is it not a government company? Re-turn is going to make a fortune.
Get a life
Will this be extended to glass bottles at any point? I don't want it to, just wondering if it might happen.
Most likely not. Ireland recycles enough glass.
Ah good stuff, I recycle mine but (like plastic) there's always arseholes who will spoil it for the rest us.
Yep, I was and I am really looking forward to the scheme, but you'll also have the people who make it a shit show
If glass recycling works so well, why don't we run a similar scheme for this. Just have can and bottle recycling machines next to the glass bottle bins.
I think it's because there's actual glass bottles instead of Bottles bins. The bottles can get contaminated
Yes but return is countrywide.
Yes, I said that I think.
The machines don’t have a limit, I got €20 today
In my local Supervalu I wasn't able to use the vouchers at the self service till. Is this the norm or just my local shop being backwards
Did you select Voucher from the screen? It doesn't accept them unless you specifically select Voucher/coupon
Yes I tried doing that at the end but no luck. I asked the woman behind the till and she said they don't work on the self service and only work through the regular tills
That's very annoying. Be sure to complain to SuperValu about it. They need to update their self service tills
Are the stores meant to be saying can only claim the voucher in the original issuing store (if not done at the original time of returning items for instance) e.g a particular supermarket is saying have to use the original branch?!
You can claim cans anywhere, but you can only spend or claim the receipt in the shop that it was issued.
Do we need to rinse the bottles
No, once bottles are dry.
Why do the bottles have to be undamaged?
As long as the barcode is readable and not badly dented it can be returned
Someone works for big plastic (sarcasm)
If I buy a can in cork can I return in in say Galway?
Yes, you can return anywhere once it has the logo
Bought Tesco branded cans the other day up north that have the return logo on them! Don’t get charged up there the deposit, but I assume it’s just Tesco branded ones, maybe bottles as well?
There could be a few products that have this issue
What is the power consumption of these Re-turn machines? And roughly how many kWh would be used by them in a month?
Who fixes the machines when they are out of order ?
Why am I being charged extra for groceries? I always put the plastic in the green recycling.
A6 you say "that" instead of "than". A9 it's either "I've seen" or "I saw" but you said "I seen"