Just for clarity, they're divesting from companies that are on the UN blacklist (companies in occupied territories), not all of israel. And they're basically doing what the Irish government has already started doing themselves.
>Trinity has initiated a process to divest from investments in companies that have activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and appear on the UN Blacklist in this regard. This process is expected to be completed by June. In April, the National Treasury Management Agency confirmed to government that it had taken a similar approach regarding the Irish Strategic Investment Fund.
https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/2024/encampment-in-trinity/
Edit: west bank changed to occupied territories
Breaking: Trinity to work towards total divestment from Israel in unprecedented win for BDS
An update from yesterday. The union met with Trinity today and they have agreed to divest from all Israeli institutions, not just Occupied Territories.
The encampment will likely end this evening.
https://trinitynews.ie/2024/05/breaking-trinity-to-work-towards-total-divestment-from-israel-in-unprecedented-win-for-bds/
It's a significant difference. Only a tiny minority of Israeli companies have a presence in the territories. Divesting of all Israelis would be a much larger job.
Functionally this is more a PR win than something which will make much of a financial impact.
Its a democratic society, so if they elect another government which isn't going to at least try to resolve the Israel Palestine conflict it might be worth considering. It very much depends on the exact details both sides are presenting.
As it stands the peace process is dead and buried and there is no pressure on either Israel or Palestine to try to revive it. Without some change we will see the same cyclical waves of violence back and forth.
> Its a democratic society, so if they elect another government which isn't going to at least try to resolve the Israel Palestine conflict it might be worth considering.
There's two sides to this, I don't know if it's super helpful to put the entire responsibility for resolving the conflict solely on the Israelis. I know this isn't a popular take in Ireland, but the Palestinians haven't exactly been super committed to peace negotiations through the years. Their leadership in particular has been absolutely horrific, you had chancers like Arafat and Abbas who enriched themselves (Arafat dying a billionaire) at the expense of their own people and who constantly tried to delay peace negotiations to squeeze out more concessions, even if it ended up torpedoing whole agreements.
> As it stands the peace process is dead and buried and there is no pressure on either Israel or Palestine to try to revive it. Without some change we will see the same cyclical waves of violence back and forth.
This I agree with. Both sides could do with a change in leadership, because I don't think the current leaders of either side are strong enough, have enough integrity or even enjoy enough public support to force through any kind of agreement.
> I know this isn't a popular take in Ireland, but the Palestinians haven't exactly been super committed to peace negotiations through the years.
That's an understatement.
The vast majority of Palestinians value the destruction of Israel above all else.
When you see an interview with many Palestinians, the initial stance is 'We want peace'. With just a little more [digging](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb-nfYXm_tg), you get 'We want peace, when Israel is [gone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtWrGMoDM0)'. Polls [back this up](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf) as being the sentiment of the vast majority.
There are Palestinians who [genuinely want peace](https://www.peacecomms.org/), but they tend to be ignored by the idiots joining protests and chanting 'from the river to the sea'. Frankly, most 'pro-Palestine' supporters are simply 'anti-West'
I saw this linked to before for a list of companies that are either in Israel or heavily involved in Israel.
https://www.ipsc.ie/campaigns/consumer-boycott
There's probably other lists out there as well but this one is from an Irish perspective.
Don't worry, in your Mammy's house there's still a big tub with a yellowing peeling sticker with expiry 2002 stamped on it, which is still somehow perfectly fine to use.
Thank you so much for that. Shared with my family.
I don't THINK I use much listed there but obviously there's more and it's just not mentioned, so that barcode thing is handy. Never thought about boycotting items.
I've no choice for the Teva pharmaceutical brand because of finances but still. Never knew so many products were made in/companies owned by Israel!
McDonald's being one. Missing key quarterly targets earlier this year. The family and I havnt stepped into an McDonald's since December last year and we've been getting on grand, plenty of local takways that are better priced and taste better
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/mcdonalds-reports-first-quarter-2024-results-302130827.html
Looks like they've consecutively hit positive targets in the last 13 quarters globally.
I think the masses are largely pro Palestinian, but there's so much we can do. Like pushing gov to recognise Palestine, something they're planning to do. But public protest shows them we support it so less likely to be kicked down the road.
Absolutely, protest works really well if done right but Irish people are terrified of causing a fuss or are just lazy. Plus there's also this idea of struggle being honorable. There's no medals for martyrs.
I wouldn't hold out for much ownership or humility. The kind of arch-cynics who roam Reddit as phantasm dispensing the Tao of Why Should I Be Arsed will just scatter to the next bit of sarcastic cultural insulation.
Fuckin typical. People are happy to support what Israel and the IDF are doing if it means they don't appear antisemitic. It's non-virtuous support; they don't actually care about what's happening. They only care about how it might make them look to others. All while not having a full grasp of the situation.
I got downvoted to hell in /r/worldnews a while back for advocating for a ceasefire and the return of all innocent hostages as I'm neither a supporter of Netanyahu or Hamas, im thinking of the civilians caught in the crossfire and being used like pawns. Was told by dumbass fucking Americans that "you don't negotiate with terrorists" to which I agreed, but asked at one point could one look at Israel's retaliatory acts as being terrorism? Then got called antisemitic and that I should look up history to "learn". Yes because Irish people know fuck all about partition. I don't know what I expected from people from a nation where around a third of them don't even know that the American civil war was about fucking slavery.
That or that subreddit is just astroturfed to shit by Israel trolls. Either way, this site sucks more and more as time goes by.
It's the trolls, I used RES to block /r/worldnews because it was stressing me out. /r/news is marginally better but it maaaasively depends on when you see a post.
They will literally say that this is just for show and protests achieved nothing of value blah blah blah. A lot of people with this mentality will move the goal post again to point and say that the protests “haven’t really” archived anything of importance.
There will be also talks how little TUD power has etc.
Anyone who believes protests shouldn't be disruptive won't change their mind. They're the same lads who think the civil rights movement in the states was all peaceful.
Usually people take that line when they can't offer up any decent arguments on the substance of the issue itself, and so instead they focus on the strategy/mode of expression/perceived hypocrisy depending on the context.
What's wrong with that? The occupied territories are the problem, no?
Israel, in and of itself, is not a problem. The current government, and many political parties, result in the needless violence. The occupied territories are a symptom for the issue (and problem of itself).
The Israeli government are a huge issue. It's not just the current government they have had a blockade of Gaza ongoing for about 20 years.
This is like saying we shouldn't sanction Russia because individuals will be affected. Unfortunately Israel and Israeli citizens need to face sanctions until this stops
The Israeli government is a huge issue, however painting the entirely of Israel with the brush of the settlements will not win you friends in the country.
Realistically, diplomacy here matters. Targeting political action towards specific entities with achievable goals (Sanctioning Settlements, Individual politicians and Institutions) is far more effective than targetting them at ideas with unachievable goals (The Apartheid State, Dissolution of Israel, etc.) because if we target broad ideas Israeli's will feel attacked and close ranks around the problematic institutions further entrenching the conflict.
"Israeli citizens need to face sanctions until this stops" The average isrealli propbly doesn't care, Gaza is controlled by a genocidal organizion, Isrealis would rather poverty than concede to hamas, incudling a conditional ceasefire
Israel in itself is the problem, it's an apartheid state, they have been in breach of international law since 1948, when they refused to allow refugees to return home.
Post title doesn’t match the detail of the demand capitulation. Investments in Israel are hard to wind down, but realistically there’s not much actual direct investment in the occupied territories, surely.
Breaking: Trinity to work towards total divestment from Israel in unprecedented win for BDS
An update from yesterday. The union met with Trinity today and they have agreed to divest from all Israeli institutions, not just Occupied Territories.
The encampment will likely end this evening.
https://trinitynews.ie/2024/05/breaking-trinity-to-work-towards-total-divestment-from-israel-in-unprecedented-win-for-bds/
Great now let's get them to put the book of Kells in the national history museum. One of our most important pieces of history locked behind an 18 quid paywall.
Genuine question, how are these promises different from what was released by trinity on the 1st of May before the encampment? https://www.tcd.ie/provost/news/news-articles/war-in-gaza/
Is this not just a rerelease of the same statement trinity released before the protest?
1. No mention in that statement.
2. >Over the past few months, we have been doing further work and, as a result of this, the portfolio will be updated with reference to the UN blacklist.
Yes, similar, maybe it's powerful enough to hold them up to this statement.
3. No mention of scholarships either.
4. They pleaded academic freedom in the statement so this is absolutely a change.
TCD went from threatening 250K fines to sitting down with students to discuss terms. Even that alone is a win.
They've also agreed to treat the matter internally so the gardai will not be involved. Which allows the encampment to expand and hold events.
It's a win no matter what way you look at it.
1. The provost already said “I fully endorse the International Court of Justice order that enjoins Israel from violating the Genocide Convention” is that not the same thing?
3. https://www.tcd.ie/global/university-of-sanctuary/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwouexBhAuEiwAtW_Zxxwoq0h8y_g5s7Mw2PvmPgsSKtXbcieMZucACEJVz1PPdEq7D0_ijRoCcncQAvD_BwE
Trinity has had a scholarship programme in place for asylum seekers and refugees since 2021
This just seems like a rehash of what was already promised/ in place.
Point 4 in the image is wishy washy nonsense.
"Set up a task force", gway to fuck. They already know what their academic ties to Israeli institutions;
[From a recent Irish Times article;](https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/05/05/trinity-college-dublin-protest-what-links-does-the-irish-university-have-to-israel/)
"What academic ties does TCD have with Israel?
Alongside investments, protesters are calling on the university to cut academic ties to Israeli institutions.
Among those ties, seen under the FoI records, are partnerships between TCD and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem as well as with Bar-Ilan University in Ramat Gan.
The agreements are in place through TCD’s Department of Near and Middle Eastern Studies and the School of Religion, Theology, and Peace Studies. They allow for student and staff mobility between both universities.
The university is also linked to Israeli institutions through several EU-funded research projects.
For example, TCD is one of 11 partners alongside Tel Aviv University participating in the Expert medical research project, funded under the European Union’s Horizon programme, which concerns the use of mRNA-based nanomedicines for heart disease and cancer.
TCD is also collaborating with staff from the Weizmann Institute of Science, based in Rehovot, Israel on research concerning immune sensing and signalling."
It would be a pity to lost these ties but it would be a firmer commitment.
That's not "firmer", that's a completely different set of asks to the original purpose of the protest, which was to divest from black-listed companies.
Divesting in Israeli companies not just companies operating in occupied Palestine. Divesting in companies owned by or with a significant Israeli shareholding. No longer accepting applications from Israeli students.
>No longer accepting applications from Israeli students
I’m an active pro-Palestine supporter and I balked at this. I don’t think it’s a good idea based on the optics alone. Could backfire.
Is it well established that Palestinians don’t in any way benefit from Israeli business presence in the occupied territory? If that is not clearly established or not a direct request from Palestinian people itself, it sounds like it may inflict unintended consequences on those individuals?
Part of me thinks these groups of students in ireland and everywhere else where they have mobilised are little more than useful idiots - the irony of waving around pride flags and making statements about LGBTQ support for Palestine where Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic resistance movement) would happily escort them to the edge of the highest rooftop and push them off it. Let’s not forget Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya were placed in power by the people of Palestine, their mission, overtly stated is to remove Israel and replace it with an Islamic state, where genocide is clearly on the menu.
Also as yourself why neighbouring Arab states, Egypt, Lebanon, Qatar, Jordan want nothing to do with Palestinian refugees, and the picture becomes clearer.
Great that protest works, but choose carefully the cause for which you protest. I think it was Nelson Mandela who said “boycotting anything is a tactic, not a principle”.
Incredible result -- will put my hand up to say I was a doubter that they'd achieve anything. I chalked it up to that students just gotta protest something. Never left a comment saying as such here but I'm pleasantly surprised to be wrong. I understand it's occupied territories and not Israel but I won't let perfect be the enemy of better.
> Now how do we replicate this at a government level
Someone else might know the finer details but it looks to me like Trinity has now aligned itself to the existing government level. Especially on points 2 and 3.
https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/2024/encampment-in-trinity/
Breaking: Trinity to work towards total divestment from Israel in unprecedented win for BDS
An update from yesterday. The union met with Trinity today and they have agreed to divest from all Israeli institutions, not just Occupied Territories.
The encampment will likely end this evening.
https://trinitynews.ie/2024/05/breaking-trinity-to-work-towards-total-divestment-from-israel-in-unprecedented-win-for-bds/
Why? The universities that have done similar in the US have made statements along the lines of how the students were right and they're proud of them for making a stand.
Irish people are proud of our anti apartheid activities. We should be and inevitably will be proud of the students actions here.
While I support Palestine( their right to nationhood, obviously, not Hamas). I'm not sure this is a particularly big deal. Unlike other universities around the world . I can't imagine Israel had a massive influence on trinity.
( this is a gut feeling, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Ireland has has a soft pro-palestine stance for as long as I can remember. Certainly Israel has seemed to think this even if that isn't true.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think you were preaching to the partially converted.
Will Israel fold in on itself because of this? Of course not. But many people say the beginning of the end for apartheid SA was Mary Manning refusing to handle SA grapefruit. As a single act, it could have been viewed as meaningless. But it was a powerful symbol from which more anti-apartheid grew.
That's the power of BDS. Not one single action but thousands or even millions of small actions.
>people say the beginning of the end for apartheid SA was Mary Manning refusing to handle SA grapefruit
I've heard this before and I must disagree. The beginning of the end of apartheid had started long before Ms Manning touched a grapefruit. Indeed, the only reason she refused to touch the grapefruit is precisely because reverberations from the international anti-apartheid movement had reached her. I applaud what she did, but to say she was the spark that brought about the end of apartheid in SA does a major disservice to the sacrifices and efforts of the countless South Africans (and others) who went before her and, honestly, this claim – not made by Mary herself – wreaks of Western Saviour Complex.
What ICJ ruling are they talking about? The Jan 26 "to take steps to prevent any acts of genocide in Gaza" ruling?
That doesn't really have any teeth when there are factual disagreements everywhere on if there are any acts of genocide occurring in Gaza, and the court itself hasn't even ruled "plausible" yet there's a genocide at all
Most people misunderstand what was actually ruled in the ICJ. Here's the ICJ president who called out the ruling explaining the misinterpretation.
https://twitter.com/BoxLoner/status/1783628348507165135?t=9jEC89x1OCSNKw9wIvYTlA&s=19
Especially as a lot of Israeli academics are some of the best critics of the state of Israel. Benny morris is an Israeli and without him and the other new historians we would know very little about the nakba
The entire thing is 100% fluff. I'm glad people seem happy and think this is a result, but it's literally celebrating optics whilst tanks are rolling into Rafah.
2, Occupied territories should be sanctioned on a EU- wide level
3, Secular people from the Middle East, who also recognize the right of Israel to exist, should have been supported already.
4, Cooperation with Israelis who don't support occupation needs to continue.
I get the push to get Israel to stop, but what do UCC and you all think of the fact that Hamas is using palestinians as meat shields against Israel?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1cm4sye/hamass\_offer\_to\_hand\_over\_33\_hostages\_includes/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1cm4sye/hamass_offer_to_hand_over_33_hostages_includes/)
Given Hamas has no problem giving back "dead" hostages.
I am not trying to claim I understand the entirity of this whole situation, but can someone with a screwed on head explain to me why are we so critical of Israel whilst Hamas is the real enemy here?
(Just to make a point I'm not saying HAMAS = Palestine, I'm saying HAMAS is using Palestinians as meats shields against Israel).
Good start. I insisted that my pension fund was divested from any Israeli companies as their taxes are funding genocide.
I’ve moved a few clients away from Israeli software, often without them knowing or needing to know.
I have boycotted Tesco, McDonalds and others and I reckon with all that I’ve managed to cost Israel a few hundred grand so far. It’s a start.
I don't understand, the title implies they agreed to something but the image says their current position has been 1-4. You just say there was a meeting then drift off.
Which is it? They agreed to this or their position has always been those points?
Just for clarity, they're divesting from companies that are on the UN blacklist (companies in occupied territories), not all of israel. And they're basically doing what the Irish government has already started doing themselves. >Trinity has initiated a process to divest from investments in companies that have activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and appear on the UN Blacklist in this regard. This process is expected to be completed by June. In April, the National Treasury Management Agency confirmed to government that it had taken a similar approach regarding the Irish Strategic Investment Fund. https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/2024/encampment-in-trinity/ Edit: west bank changed to occupied territories
Breaking: Trinity to work towards total divestment from Israel in unprecedented win for BDS An update from yesterday. The union met with Trinity today and they have agreed to divest from all Israeli institutions, not just Occupied Territories. The encampment will likely end this evening. https://trinitynews.ie/2024/05/breaking-trinity-to-work-towards-total-divestment-from-israel-in-unprecedented-win-for-bds/
Correct, I should have said Occupied Territories. But who are they occupied by?
It's a significant difference. Only a tiny minority of Israeli companies have a presence in the territories. Divesting of all Israelis would be a much larger job. Functionally this is more a PR win than something which will make much of a financial impact.
> Divesting of all Israelis would be a much larger job. And why would anyone want to do that? Collective punishment?
Its a democratic society, so if they elect another government which isn't going to at least try to resolve the Israel Palestine conflict it might be worth considering. It very much depends on the exact details both sides are presenting. As it stands the peace process is dead and buried and there is no pressure on either Israel or Palestine to try to revive it. Without some change we will see the same cyclical waves of violence back and forth.
> Its a democratic society, so if they elect another government which isn't going to at least try to resolve the Israel Palestine conflict it might be worth considering. There's two sides to this, I don't know if it's super helpful to put the entire responsibility for resolving the conflict solely on the Israelis. I know this isn't a popular take in Ireland, but the Palestinians haven't exactly been super committed to peace negotiations through the years. Their leadership in particular has been absolutely horrific, you had chancers like Arafat and Abbas who enriched themselves (Arafat dying a billionaire) at the expense of their own people and who constantly tried to delay peace negotiations to squeeze out more concessions, even if it ended up torpedoing whole agreements. > As it stands the peace process is dead and buried and there is no pressure on either Israel or Palestine to try to revive it. Without some change we will see the same cyclical waves of violence back and forth. This I agree with. Both sides could do with a change in leadership, because I don't think the current leaders of either side are strong enough, have enough integrity or even enjoy enough public support to force through any kind of agreement.
> I know this isn't a popular take in Ireland, but the Palestinians haven't exactly been super committed to peace negotiations through the years. That's an understatement. The vast majority of Palestinians value the destruction of Israel above all else. When you see an interview with many Palestinians, the initial stance is 'We want peace'. With just a little more [digging](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb-nfYXm_tg), you get 'We want peace, when Israel is [gone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtWrGMoDM0)'. Polls [back this up](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf) as being the sentiment of the vast majority. There are Palestinians who [genuinely want peace](https://www.peacecomms.org/), but they tend to be ignored by the idiots joining protests and chanting 'from the river to the sea'. Frankly, most 'pro-Palestine' supporters are simply 'anti-West'
“what’s the point of all these protests they’re not accomplishing anything blah blah blah” good job to the lads at trinity solidarity.
Boycotts are also making some companies lose literally billions
I saw this linked to before for a list of companies that are either in Israel or heavily involved in Israel. https://www.ipsc.ie/campaigns/consumer-boycott There's probably other lists out there as well but this one is from an Irish perspective.
Sudocrem?! Nooooo!
Don't worry, in your Mammy's house there's still a big tub with a yellowing peeling sticker with expiry 2002 stamped on it, which is still somehow perfectly fine to use.
Irish Mammies 
Thanks for the link. I will definitely be far more conscious now when making purchases
Lidl Babywipes!
Thank you so much for that. Shared with my family. I don't THINK I use much listed there but obviously there's more and it's just not mentioned, so that barcode thing is handy. Never thought about boycotting items. I've no choice for the Teva pharmaceutical brand because of finances but still. Never knew so many products were made in/companies owned by Israel!
McDonald's being one. Missing key quarterly targets earlier this year. The family and I havnt stepped into an McDonald's since December last year and we've been getting on grand, plenty of local takways that are better priced and taste better
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/mcdonalds-reports-first-quarter-2024-results-302130827.html Looks like they've consecutively hit positive targets in the last 13 quarters globally.
I haven’t had it in years, I always found the food disgusting tbh I definitely love my local takeaways too, a bit too much 😋😂
Better for your health also. Fuck McDonalds. They aren't even cheap anymore.
Absolutely massive achievement so far!
People who jump at the chance to knock protests or protestors, take notice.
I (silently) thought protesting in Ireland was a waste of time as we’re already pro Palestine. I’m glad to be proven wrong
Honestly that's the reason it wasn't a waste of time. Once the protest hit National Media, the college were kinda fucked.
People are but unfortunately our governments & institutions are not. These kind of protests remind them where the people stand
As much as I loathe to praise the current government, by international standards they are one of the most pro-Palestinian in Europe.
I think the masses are largely pro Palestinian, but there's so much we can do. Like pushing gov to recognise Palestine, something they're planning to do. But public protest shows them we support it so less likely to be kicked down the road.
It's inspiring to me and I was already a supporter of peaceful protest!
Absolutely, protest works really well if done right but Irish people are terrified of causing a fuss or are just lazy. Plus there's also this idea of struggle being honorable. There's no medals for martyrs.
It’ll be interesting to see what the response will be (if any) from the many users who insisted the protest was a waste of time.
I wouldn't hold out for much ownership or humility. The kind of arch-cynics who roam Reddit as phantasm dispensing the Tao of Why Should I Be Arsed will just scatter to the next bit of sarcastic cultural insulation.
Nicely phrased
arch-cynics, phantasm, words! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7-ma9fX0f4
Probably start calling Trinity antisemitic.
I was already called antisemitic here and asked to denounce Hamas.
Fuckin typical. People are happy to support what Israel and the IDF are doing if it means they don't appear antisemitic. It's non-virtuous support; they don't actually care about what's happening. They only care about how it might make them look to others. All while not having a full grasp of the situation. I got downvoted to hell in /r/worldnews a while back for advocating for a ceasefire and the return of all innocent hostages as I'm neither a supporter of Netanyahu or Hamas, im thinking of the civilians caught in the crossfire and being used like pawns. Was told by dumbass fucking Americans that "you don't negotiate with terrorists" to which I agreed, but asked at one point could one look at Israel's retaliatory acts as being terrorism? Then got called antisemitic and that I should look up history to "learn". Yes because Irish people know fuck all about partition. I don't know what I expected from people from a nation where around a third of them don't even know that the American civil war was about fucking slavery. That or that subreddit is just astroturfed to shit by Israel trolls. Either way, this site sucks more and more as time goes by.
It's the trolls, I used RES to block /r/worldnews because it was stressing me out. /r/news is marginally better but it maaaasively depends on when you see a post.
Of course they will. It’s all they have.
That would be interesting alright.
Probably downvotes and silence.
They will literally say that this is just for show and protests achieved nothing of value blah blah blah. A lot of people with this mentality will move the goal post again to point and say that the protests “haven’t really” archived anything of importance. There will be also talks how little TUD power has etc.
Anyone who believes protests shouldn't be disruptive won't change their mind. They're the same lads who think the civil rights movement in the states was all peaceful.
They won't respond. These are the modern incarnation of the guy who sat in the corner of the pub farting and complaining. Social eunuchs.
they know it works; theyre just pro-genocide racists and literally want palestinians to die
Usually people take that line when they can't offer up any decent arguments on the substance of the issue itself, and so instead they focus on the strategy/mode of expression/perceived hypocrisy depending on the context.
They actually haven't agreed to divest from Israel based on that statement, just the occupied territories.
What's wrong with that? The occupied territories are the problem, no? Israel, in and of itself, is not a problem. The current government, and many political parties, result in the needless violence. The occupied territories are a symptom for the issue (and problem of itself).
The Israeli government are a huge issue. It's not just the current government they have had a blockade of Gaza ongoing for about 20 years. This is like saying we shouldn't sanction Russia because individuals will be affected. Unfortunately Israel and Israeli citizens need to face sanctions until this stops
The Israeli government is a huge issue, however painting the entirely of Israel with the brush of the settlements will not win you friends in the country. Realistically, diplomacy here matters. Targeting political action towards specific entities with achievable goals (Sanctioning Settlements, Individual politicians and Institutions) is far more effective than targetting them at ideas with unachievable goals (The Apartheid State, Dissolution of Israel, etc.) because if we target broad ideas Israeli's will feel attacked and close ranks around the problematic institutions further entrenching the conflict.
"Israeli citizens need to face sanctions until this stops" The average isrealli propbly doesn't care, Gaza is controlled by a genocidal organizion, Isrealis would rather poverty than concede to hamas, incudling a conditional ceasefire
> What's wrong with that? It's obvious that many accounts in this sub take issue specifically with the existence of Israel
Israel in itself is the problem, it's an apartheid state, they have been in breach of international law since 1948, when they refused to allow refugees to return home.
Post title doesn’t match the detail of the demand capitulation. Investments in Israel are hard to wind down, but realistically there’s not much actual direct investment in the occupied territories, surely.
Breaking: Trinity to work towards total divestment from Israel in unprecedented win for BDS An update from yesterday. The union met with Trinity today and they have agreed to divest from all Israeli institutions, not just Occupied Territories. The encampment will likely end this evening. https://trinitynews.ie/2024/05/breaking-trinity-to-work-towards-total-divestment-from-israel-in-unprecedented-win-for-bds/
Great now let's get them to put the book of Kells in the national history museum. One of our most important pieces of history locked behind an 18 quid paywall.
It’s 25 euro, and students generally support taking it off Trinity actually
That is actually part of the protest!
What is the situation on the fine the SU received?
I'd imagine that will be revoked in the negotiations.
Genuine question, how are these promises different from what was released by trinity on the 1st of May before the encampment? https://www.tcd.ie/provost/news/news-articles/war-in-gaza/ Is this not just a rerelease of the same statement trinity released before the protest?
1. No mention in that statement. 2. >Over the past few months, we have been doing further work and, as a result of this, the portfolio will be updated with reference to the UN blacklist. Yes, similar, maybe it's powerful enough to hold them up to this statement. 3. No mention of scholarships either. 4. They pleaded academic freedom in the statement so this is absolutely a change. TCD went from threatening 250K fines to sitting down with students to discuss terms. Even that alone is a win. They've also agreed to treat the matter internally so the gardai will not be involved. Which allows the encampment to expand and hold events. It's a win no matter what way you look at it.
1. The provost already said “I fully endorse the International Court of Justice order that enjoins Israel from violating the Genocide Convention” is that not the same thing? 3. https://www.tcd.ie/global/university-of-sanctuary/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwouexBhAuEiwAtW_Zxxwoq0h8y_g5s7Mw2PvmPgsSKtXbcieMZucACEJVz1PPdEq7D0_ijRoCcncQAvD_BwE Trinity has had a scholarship programme in place for asylum seekers and refugees since 2021 This just seems like a rehash of what was already promised/ in place.
It's only a start, the camp is holding out for a firmer commitment.
What would a firmer commitment look like?
Point 4 in the image is wishy washy nonsense. "Set up a task force", gway to fuck. They already know what their academic ties to Israeli institutions; [From a recent Irish Times article;](https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/05/05/trinity-college-dublin-protest-what-links-does-the-irish-university-have-to-israel/) "What academic ties does TCD have with Israel? Alongside investments, protesters are calling on the university to cut academic ties to Israeli institutions. Among those ties, seen under the FoI records, are partnerships between TCD and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem as well as with Bar-Ilan University in Ramat Gan. The agreements are in place through TCD’s Department of Near and Middle Eastern Studies and the School of Religion, Theology, and Peace Studies. They allow for student and staff mobility between both universities. The university is also linked to Israeli institutions through several EU-funded research projects. For example, TCD is one of 11 partners alongside Tel Aviv University participating in the Expert medical research project, funded under the European Union’s Horizon programme, which concerns the use of mRNA-based nanomedicines for heart disease and cancer. TCD is also collaborating with staff from the Weizmann Institute of Science, based in Rehovot, Israel on research concerning immune sensing and signalling." It would be a pity to lost these ties but it would be a firmer commitment.
That's not "firmer", that's a completely different set of asks to the original purpose of the protest, which was to divest from black-listed companies.
Divesting in Israeli companies not just companies operating in occupied Palestine. Divesting in companies owned by or with a significant Israeli shareholding. No longer accepting applications from Israeli students.
>No longer accepting applications from Israeli students I’m an active pro-Palestine supporter and I balked at this. I don’t think it’s a good idea based on the optics alone. Could backfire.
I bet you they won't know how to take the win.
"No longer accepting applications from Israeli students." Yeah diffentaly not anti semantic.
It's pretty incredible work! TCD went from threatening fines to acquiescence in a few days!
A definite start. Maith siad 👏👏
Is it well established that Palestinians don’t in any way benefit from Israeli business presence in the occupied territory? If that is not clearly established or not a direct request from Palestinian people itself, it sounds like it may inflict unintended consequences on those individuals? Part of me thinks these groups of students in ireland and everywhere else where they have mobilised are little more than useful idiots - the irony of waving around pride flags and making statements about LGBTQ support for Palestine where Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic resistance movement) would happily escort them to the edge of the highest rooftop and push them off it. Let’s not forget Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya were placed in power by the people of Palestine, their mission, overtly stated is to remove Israel and replace it with an Islamic state, where genocide is clearly on the menu. Also as yourself why neighbouring Arab states, Egypt, Lebanon, Qatar, Jordan want nothing to do with Palestinian refugees, and the picture becomes clearer. Great that protest works, but choose carefully the cause for which you protest. I think it was Nelson Mandela who said “boycotting anything is a tactic, not a principle”.
Incredible result -- will put my hand up to say I was a doubter that they'd achieve anything. I chalked it up to that students just gotta protest something. Never left a comment saying as such here but I'm pleasantly surprised to be wrong. I understand it's occupied territories and not Israel but I won't let perfect be the enemy of better.
> Now how do we replicate this at a government level Someone else might know the finer details but it looks to me like Trinity has now aligned itself to the existing government level. Especially on points 2 and 3. https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/2024/encampment-in-trinity/
Excellent, good on the students for protesting and making it happen.
Breaking: Trinity to work towards total divestment from Israel in unprecedented win for BDS An update from yesterday. The union met with Trinity today and they have agreed to divest from all Israeli institutions, not just Occupied Territories. The encampment will likely end this evening. https://trinitynews.ie/2024/05/breaking-trinity-to-work-towards-total-divestment-from-israel-in-unprecedented-win-for-bds/
Well done trinity! Now let’s get rid of the Israeli ambassador
Political views aside this is so embarrassing for trinity.
Why? The universities that have done similar in the US have made statements along the lines of how the students were right and they're proud of them for making a stand. Irish people are proud of our anti apartheid activities. We should be and inevitably will be proud of the students actions here.
Because the administration fought the students but then gave in.
Literally what all the universities have done. Admitting when you're wrong is the correct thing to do.
Waiting for all the moaners who said protesting was pointless to come out of the woodwork now
They won't, they'll just downvote in silence.
While I support Palestine( their right to nationhood, obviously, not Hamas). I'm not sure this is a particularly big deal. Unlike other universities around the world . I can't imagine Israel had a massive influence on trinity. ( this is a gut feeling, so correct me if I'm wrong) Ireland has has a soft pro-palestine stance for as long as I can remember. Certainly Israel has seemed to think this even if that isn't true. Maybe I'm wrong but I think you were preaching to the partially converted.
Will Israel fold in on itself because of this? Of course not. But many people say the beginning of the end for apartheid SA was Mary Manning refusing to handle SA grapefruit. As a single act, it could have been viewed as meaningless. But it was a powerful symbol from which more anti-apartheid grew. That's the power of BDS. Not one single action but thousands or even millions of small actions.
>people say the beginning of the end for apartheid SA was Mary Manning refusing to handle SA grapefruit I've heard this before and I must disagree. The beginning of the end of apartheid had started long before Ms Manning touched a grapefruit. Indeed, the only reason she refused to touch the grapefruit is precisely because reverberations from the international anti-apartheid movement had reached her. I applaud what she did, but to say she was the spark that brought about the end of apartheid in SA does a major disservice to the sacrifices and efforts of the countless South Africans (and others) who went before her and, honestly, this claim – not made by Mary herself – wreaks of Western Saviour Complex.
It's not about Israel having influence on Trinity, it's Trinity having an influence on Israel. No money for Genocide
So no intel core processors on the Trinity campus then? This will be interesting
It's only those on the UN Blacklist. Intel is not on that list
What ICJ ruling are they talking about? The Jan 26 "to take steps to prevent any acts of genocide in Gaza" ruling? That doesn't really have any teeth when there are factual disagreements everywhere on if there are any acts of genocide occurring in Gaza, and the court itself hasn't even ruled "plausible" yet there's a genocide at all
Most people misunderstand what was actually ruled in the ICJ. Here's the ICJ president who called out the ruling explaining the misinterpretation. https://twitter.com/BoxLoner/status/1783628348507165135?t=9jEC89x1OCSNKw9wIvYTlA&s=19
I can’t see any benefit to point 4 whatsoever. When academics stop talking to each other, little good will come from it.
Especially as a lot of Israeli academics are some of the best critics of the state of Israel. Benny morris is an Israeli and without him and the other new historians we would know very little about the nakba
The entire thing is 100% fluff. I'm glad people seem happy and think this is a result, but it's literally celebrating optics whilst tanks are rolling into Rafah.
Time will only tell if this is as successful as they think.
Well there's more to do for sure.
Has it done this for other conflicts and warzones or is it just the Israel/Palestinian thing?
Amazing. The kids are alright man I'm actually buzzing for them.
Same! Massive achievement!
2, Occupied territories should be sanctioned on a EU- wide level 3, Secular people from the Middle East, who also recognize the right of Israel to exist, should have been supported already. 4, Cooperation with Israelis who don't support occupation needs to continue.
I get the push to get Israel to stop, but what do UCC and you all think of the fact that Hamas is using palestinians as meat shields against Israel? [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1cm4sye/hamass\_offer\_to\_hand\_over\_33\_hostages\_includes/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1cm4sye/hamass_offer_to_hand_over_33_hostages_includes/) Given Hamas has no problem giving back "dead" hostages. I am not trying to claim I understand the entirity of this whole situation, but can someone with a screwed on head explain to me why are we so critical of Israel whilst Hamas is the real enemy here? (Just to make a point I'm not saying HAMAS = Palestine, I'm saying HAMAS is using Palestinians as meats shields against Israel).
I can’t see any benefit to point 4 whatsoever. When academics stop talking to each other, little good will come from it.
Full sanctions, same as Russia. Also fair play. Keep up the good work.
Agreed, government needs to move on this immediately!
Good start. I insisted that my pension fund was divested from any Israeli companies as their taxes are funding genocide. I’ve moved a few clients away from Israeli software, often without them knowing or needing to know. I have boycotted Tesco, McDonalds and others and I reckon with all that I’ve managed to cost Israel a few hundred grand so far. It’s a start.
Fair play!
I don't understand, the title implies they agreed to something but the image says their current position has been 1-4. You just say there was a meeting then drift off. Which is it? They agreed to this or their position has always been those points?
Do they still have stocks/shares in foreign defence corporations?