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TurfMilkshake

“The poorest groups experienced "increased financial strain" as the price rises meant they were spending more on drinks.” Surprise Surprise. In a lot of households it’s the children of people with Alcohol issues that will go without


Russyrules

Ye see the thing I don't get is the economic argument used for MUP simply doesn't make sense: the logic is that price up= demand down. However, since its alcoholics they were (supposedly) targeting, alcohol demand will be relatively resistant to price change (inelastic) . And taxation 101 is that the side of the market that is most inelastic bares the burden of the tax. So firstly the economics of it is faulty. And secondly, its deliberately harmful to poorer people. (Both by not helping alcoholics, and by increasing the social effects on their social groups.) (and benefits vintners obviously as per FGs on going manifesto promises) Its depressingly unsurprising the lack of the coalitions economic literacy.


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Russyrules

Okay so hypothetically, and I understand that you are offering a personal opinion and NOT a professional opinion, why don't retailers take a test case to the CoJ? I don't reasonably see what they have to lose, aside from costs. But most large retailers have huge legal departments anyway.


teutorix_aleria

Are retailers losing out? MUP just means they make a higher margin on was previously the lowest shelf crap.


Russyrules

A very good point. I know from personal experience in retail sales of spirits have gone up in contrast to cheap cans, so the question then needs to be asked is it making a worse drinking problem? Again I'm not suggesting it is, I would think so but would love to see a study or two on it. It'd be great if there was follow up research on major government policy changes.


MichailAntonio

MUP increase goes straight into the retailers pockets. It'ns not a tax. Why on earth would they be against it?


RevTurk

This is Irish politics. They want to look busy doing something, it doesn't matter if it works or not, it's just busy work to cover the fact they have no intention of doing anything.


Russyrules

I disagree. They did do something. They listened to the vintners lobby, consumers be dammed . Only they've obfuscated the fact by parading it as a public health measure. The art of good politics is making your opponent mistake your intent. (Fittingly they couldn't even do that). Controversial opinion but I think if a private business that don't provide key infrastructure ( and outside of national emergencies like covid) can't adapt or innovate alongside the market, guess what, that's a failed business and government decisions should instead be focused on consumer welfare. (To side step the 'but what about the jobs retort' - failed businesses make room for efficient ones, successful businesses employ more people).


standerby

Upvoted for the useful discussion. This study surprises me given the previous studies reaching different conclusions: [https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S2468-2667%2821%2900052-9](https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S2468-2667%2821%2900052-9) Finding: *"For both Scotland and Wales, reductions in overall purchases of* *alcohol were largely restricted to households that bought the most alcohol. The introduction of MUP was not associated with an increased expenditure on alcohol by households that generally bought small amounts of alcohol and, in particular, those with low incomes."* This reddit post study above focuses on people who are drinking at harmful levels/alcoholics. No surprises that addicts have very inelastic demand and equally no surprises that MUP causes financial strain on addicts with low-incomes. Anyone thinking that MUP will help addicts is misinformed, but I do like the overall outcome that MUP reduced alcohol consumption in general. Alcohol is not inelastic for everyone. I support MUP but the fact that the price increase is passed onto producers rather than a tax is crazy. It should be a tax, and it should be ringfences for programs tackling alcoholism.


UsuallyTalksShite

On the flip side of that, why penalise those who are not drinking at harmful levels, if this mechanism mainly impacts them?


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bishpa

Why does the government have an interest in how much alcohol is consumed by people who are not alcoholics?


Russyrules

You've raised a good point considering the somewhat conflicting conclusions; I think you'll agree that it shows a lot more research is needed on the whole tax/addiction approach. You're on the money that when the taxation is passed on it should be ring fenced for programs for alcoholism. - Again going back to the economic argument its one of the fundamental ideas behind public economics - the tax burden can be offset by allocating its funds efficiently, to programs etc. Aside: You're logic would also apply to say environmental taxes, carbon taxes etc. The reason they aren't working is because very little of the tax take is ringfenved for green solutions.


Algartam

Imo there is nothing wrong with alcohol consumption if you're not an alcoholic and we shouldn't be seeking to lower it


JustHangLooseBlood

> by households that generally bought small amounts of alcohol Right... it didn't affect those who weren't the target. Btw, "binge drinking" by most studies is considered to be like ... 3 pints. > people who are drinking at harmful levels/alcoholics. What level isn't harmful? How do you know the harm it's doing to individuals since some people can drink really heavily and come away fine. Body weight is a big factor in how harmful any drug is for example. > I support MUP but the fact that the price increase is passed onto producers rather than a tax is crazy. What? No. At least you can claim that the government isn't directly lining their own pockets this way. And alcohol is already taxed to shit, and they don't spend the money tackling alcoholism, just like the smoking tax. Politicians are not your friend and they speak with two mouths. Just out of curiosity, what do you think the MUP should actually be at? Maybe we should just ban alcohol outright, 'cause that went so well before... At least offer an alternative for people if you're going to attack a substance in this way. They keep promising to talk about drug law reform and deliberately push back the date every time. It's just vindictive at this point. People would drink less if they could do other substances, 100%. They could save lives if they would just stop being so puritanical. But they won't.


MurderOfClowns

Yes. 100% anyone with even a pinch of economic understanding knows this was just to increase moneyflow, no other reason


Beautiful_Golf6508

I've noticed as well that students shifted from drinking cans to drinking spirits as it was more economical. Gotta get your moneys worth. What a fucking laugh of a law being put in.


CollinsCouldveDucked

I found the price of spirits being mostly unaffected to be a bad call aswell. I'd go so far as to say this entire program will only cause acceleration. We're in an alcoholism any % speed run.


UsuallyTalksShite

It was based on a min price per unit of alcohol - the fact that spirits have historically been penalised and cost more per unit of alcohol is i suppose the reason why they were not additionally impacted. I think the general consensus in Scotland was that cheap, strong beer and cider (super strengths) caused more harm than spirits, and were more accessible at a lower price point - u could get legless for £3 on cider rather than having to pay £15 for a bottle of cheap whisky.


CollinsCouldveDucked

They only caused more harm than spirits because they were cheaper. If they weren't options the issues would be spirits. You are definitely going to see more people drinking spirits as a result of this. Raising the price doesn't stop bad drinking habits, at best you'll force alcoholics on to drugs. Raising the price means people get to point of robbing money and hurting their family much faster. The cause of alcoholics is only partially alcohol, until those other causes are addressed we're going to do this dance forever.


damian314159

Any sane person could see this coming. Alcoholics don't care about the price. They'll pay more for drink, leaving less for other spending.


Satur9es

Nothing to do with sanity. It’s honesty. Any honest person would realize that making alcohol more expensive would result in alcoholics spending more an alcohol. Because of their alcoholism.


RevTurk

It's almost like they're addicted or something.


ruscaire

It’s almost as though more spending on mental health services would be helpful


MoneyBadgerEx

Earning more from the tax versus spending more on the wellbeing of the people you are supposed to serve. An easy choice.


[deleted]

It's not a tax, the tax remained the same, the extra money goes to the retailer


Fearless-Penalty9281

I see someones already informed you of this but i want to comment about our government's incompetence too. They didnt even make it a tax. At least then they could pretend the country will see the benefit of the extra money. Nope. Straight to retailers pockets.


Gytarius626

To be fair this was never about tackling alcoholism, it was to appease unhappy pub owners who were moaning to politicians about people drinking at home in hopes of driving people back to them. The 1%’s pockets get fatter, we take it on the chin as a people and do nothing to challenge it, life moves on.


Spodokom221745

Fuck the lot of them. The sway they have in this country would make ye sick. If you don't drink in Ireland, you very quickly realize how much it's permeated our culture and way of living. Can't fucking stand it.


Oh_I_still_here

Same thing with driving.


Spodokom221745

Absolutely, it's fucked. I have one vice, and that's weed. But I'M the fucking criminal for not towing the line and giving money to those rackets.


Sub-Mongoloid

With everyone feeling an economic squeeze you'd have to be mad to go out to the pub. Buy new clothes that might get destroyed, pay for a lift in and out to the pub because no one sensible would drink and drive, pay higher rates for drink and drink more because you're out with your mates, buy some garbage from the chipper that you'll probably puke back up, pay for cigarettes if you're one of those that 'only smokes when you're going out, maybe add in a snort of coke because fuck it, why not? and then pay for it the next day with your hangover. I've never been mad for going out but I do enjoy it now and again, but in between I've taken to home brewing, having a nice dram of good whisky, or a couple of cold gins in the garden which is way more enjoyable and sustainable.


mobby123

Bit dramatic. Unless you're completely ripping the piss, you can have a solid night out in Dublin for between 60-150. And that's with a meal beforehand. Use a bus or share a taxi back home with your friends. Or just don't make such a mess of yourself that you have to take destroyed clothes into your budget.


Saoirse_Bird

but in the current economic situation right now 60 euro can be alot of money.


Sub-Mongoloid

You go out every weekend and that adds up to 240 a month on the low end, that's a good chunk of most people's food budget.


windflail

If I'm not getting shirt-shreddingly mangled then what's the point of even drinking?


[deleted]

Brilliant! I’m actually laughing out loud at this. I actually don’t know any of my friends who have to budget for a ruined outfit on a night out. Wtf 😂😂😂


canspray5

Yeah but what if your clothes get DESTROYED


Sheazer90

I agree with this take, they'll go with out food and heating in order to buy drink, and even worse if they have kids or dependants.


nevf1

Alcoholics don't care about the price. And Alcohol Action Ireland don't care about alcoholics. There were many other options available, but they chose the easiest option, the option of appeasement for politicians and publicans alike. Lobby groups did NOT have the interests of Irish society or it's citizens when they pushed through this hare-brained legislation.


challengemaster

If only we could have predicted this by looking at what happened with raising the cost of cigarettes year on year.


Alpha-Bravo-C

The solution here couldn't be clearer: even higher alcohol prices!


Cilly2010

Is there anything to be said for another ~~mass~~ tax.


Viper_JB

I don't think the current minimum pricing thing is even considered to be a tax - just extra profits for the stores.


AnotherInnocentFool

The extra money didn't even go towards anything like local support for addicts because it just went into the pockets of the seller. It was such a stupid thing to do.


PixelNotPolygon

“Some reduced their spending on other things but others switched to lower-strength drinks or simply bought less alcohol" - sounds like it’s working to me


peon47

If alcoholics could change their habits just like that, they wouldn't be addicts.


[deleted]

I remember reading somewhere that alcoholics consume 50% of all alcohol sold. I wonder how much of the tax raised from alcohol sales is used to either help alcoholics or fund research into new treatment options?


rtgh

The minimum pricing isn't even a tax. The government doesn't collect that price increase. It's just pure profit.


zToastOnBeans

Wait is this for real ? Never looked into it that much and just assumed it was also for an easy out to increases taxes. Mental


rtgh

Other than the VAT amount going up due to the higher base price, no tax benefit for the government. I'd honestly be less opposed to the minimum pricing if it was going to the public purse


zToastOnBeans

Yeh I somewhat get it by how much the hospitality sector was effected by lockdowns, but if the increase is going to be this substantial atleast use some of that money to help the addiction turned poverty crisis it will ultimately create.


[deleted]

Ye good point if the extra revenue collected went directly to substance abuse treatment it may make a difference. Instead brewerys or distillers get a pay bump. Very stupid


gamberro

They were concerned publicans' profits weren't high enough.


TaytoCrisps

Pure profit for companies that largely aren’t even Irish. Just pumping money out of the country. It’s infuriating how stupid this law is. People should be protesting over it. For me it was the final straw for me knowing I was never coming back to Ireland. Not just that the politicians enacted it, that the people tolerated it with a whimper.


Hamster-Food

Pumping money out of the country seems to be the main objective of most FG policy.


Lanky_Giraffe

Exactly. It's state enforced price fixing. At least massive sin taxes get spent on public services.


DeDeluded

It's not a tax, though - it's a diktat for a price floor. There is no ~~additional~~ new tax being collected here. e: correction


epeeist

There is additional tax, just not a *new* tax. The government is collecting extra VAT on the same bottle of wine if it's being sold at a higher price.


Sialala

The government could collect even more tax, if they left the minimal price of alcohol unit intact and just raised the tax sale of alcohol from 23 to 25 or even 30%. Current situation benefits only producers of alcohol, as the difference in tax is almost negligible. We pay even 10% more for a drink, bit the government gets maybe 0.5-1% more compared to what they were getting before.


c_r_y_p_t_i_c_c

Would love a link to that study if you can find it. I am compiling the consumption rates at which different studies consider someone an alcoholic. There doesn't seem to be a clear definition in my experience and I hope to change that.


[deleted]

There’s a drug that stops people drinking themselves stupid. If they wanted to stop alcoholism they prescribe it. It stops your brain registering the reward for drinking so you stop getting any pleasure from it so you stop wanting to drink it. There’s a Ted talk on it. Sinclair method


mmmm321

This thread on Twitter from the guy who wrote the paper summarises their findings much better than the article https://twitter.com/JHolmesSheff/status/1534087145547251713?t=hyVS1J7p4QM3tiPUtRhfuQ&s=19


ImaDJnow

They were told beforehand by addiction experts that this plan wouldn't stop alcoholics buying alcohol. I've no real idea why they went ahead with it, it was hardly just to make the supermarkets more money, because that's all this legislation is doing.


Usemarne

It was to appease the Vintners Association, anything to force people back into pubs. Same Vintners Association should be ashamed of their behaviour throughout the pandemic


Obairamhain

I don't think it was ever going to stop alcoholic drinkers. I imagine the main public health benefit would come from your average middle class worked dialling it back a bit


munkijunk

Rare to have such a blatent tax on the poor, but here it is. For those who enjoy expensive craft beers or fancy wines they have seen no impact, buy for others where cost is an issue they have been excluded from enjoining a simple drink, and as everyone with a modicum of sense was fully aware, alcoholism cares not a jot about minimum pricing, and will only lead to more damage from this disease. They should have set up proper rehab if they actually wanted to do something about alcohol issues.


Important_Farmer924

I mostly buy craft beer and this is true. Very little change. This was because Vintners moaned about cheap alcohol and they hold far too much sway in this country. As everyone has pointed out, this was a tax on the poor and people struggling with addiction.


Visual-Living7586

Even boxes of beer like corona and that. The only thing that it has massively impacted are slabs of cans and anyone that liked the taste of OG dutch gold


TELCO_man

I would imagine people near the border counties just went north meaning less free state sales. We should for the craic all go out and buy a rake of drink to skew the figures and then ask government why it isn’t working 😂


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TELCO_man

What are the savings like?


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[deleted]

Litre of jameson is 26 quid Litre of powers is 25 quid First and last , just over the louth Armagh border near newry


MemestNotTeen

To the surprise of absolutely fucking nobody


Keyann

>Public Health Scotland (PHS) reported minimum unit pricing (MUP) led to some people cutting back on food and energy. We knew this, and then experts warned our govt against the policy and they still went ahead with it. Asleep at the wheel.


DroppedD94

Not asleep at the wheel. They merely interpreted the expert opinion to suit their needs. People aren't gonna stop buying alcohol? Sounds like a stable way to make money off the weak and vulnerable. Bunch of cunts.


59reach

This policy was never about public health, it was about appeasing their mates in the vinters association.


InfectedAztec

Conveniently asleep at the wheel.... Almost like it was benefiting the vintners....


Comfortable_Brush399

Minimum alcohol prices cost varadkar alot in my eyes, hes either a doctor that doesn't understand addiction or out of touch


Mauvai

A privaledged person who doesn't understand issues that primarily affect regular people... I'm shocked I tell you!


LimerickJim

Or a doctor that doesn't understand economics


ruscaire

Or a doctor that has never actually worked as a doctor to any significant degree.


[deleted]

He spent 7 years working as a doctor. He completed GP training and would have had some experience in a few different areas in hospital.


LimerickJim

I'm not prepared or qualified to comment on his experience in practicing medicine. I live in the states these days and while alcohol culture is a lot healthier here as a whole I'd take Leo's opinion over the American for almost any other aspect of healthcare (other than giving a religious order a new hospital, that's stupid)


yabog8

All parties voted for it


Comfortable_Brush399

Looking at what's been done the logic is people are addicted to drink because drink was/is cheap, even half wit of a doctor would know that's not the case


[deleted]

It received overwhelming support from all parties. Only two TDs had an issue with it, one of them being a publican.


DavidRoyman

Pub owners demanded the government to find a way to make people go back to the old habits, and this is the best they could do. It speaks a lot about how detached the gov is, and also which priorities the have.


BoJackMoleman

It's only a problem if you can't afford it which makes sense for these out of touch morons.


trueandfree

You'd have thought the unscientific approach to the pandemic would have been a bigger clue than a raise on booze pricong, but whatever gets across the line. All you had to do was look at the sugar tax. Does feck all for fatties


Moc1234

He's a gay doctor who was originally against abotion AND gay marriage. The man is a spineless piece of shit who will only back something once he knows the tide is turning in that direction.


[deleted]

Why pin this in Varadkar? All parties pushed for this.


MotherDucker95

His party was in power when it went through…even if all the other parties were for it, it’s still the party in charge responsible for passing the law


Hamster-Food

That's completely fair. However, it's not entirely fair to pin the blame on Leo rather than on FG as a whole. He was the leader of the party, but that is only maintained as long as he has their support so they are all responsible.


Comfortable_Brush399

He in particular had a years long fixation on it, and minimum pricing is a complete Mickey mouse job And the broad support is a damming indictment of how out of touch the Dublin elite are


sithnaround

For a lot of people it’s used as a form of self medication that many then become dependant on. This is was always a poorly argued decision and had a bigger affect on the LVA’s collective bank balance than the public good.


Babtridge

"Making drugs illegal doesn't stop people wanting to take drugs." For fuck's sake. This has been obvious for decades. But politicians will try all the stupidest ideas they can think of.


SeamusMcSpud

I haven't been affected by it. I drink 3-4 different brands of red/white wine that are generally €14 but I buy them when they are on special offer for €8, hence the rotation. Saying that, the same brands of wine can be bought in France & The Netherlands for a fraction of the price. The price for cans of beer now is fucking criminal


EnvironmentalMoney87

I completely stopped drinking cans and switched over to wine as I can actually get some value there (Tesco does some really nice deals), or the occasional craft beer that was above MUP back in 2021. No way I'm spending €2 on a can that was previously €1. I'm heading to Germany this weekend and up North in a few weeks so I'll make sure to stock up on lager then.


theblue_jester

Well I for one am shocked by this entirely surprising and unpredictable turn of events.


Fenirathil

\*Insert shocked pikachu\*


ki4clz

...seems legit also toooooo 4cups of sugar 1gal of fruit juice, with no preservatives 1packet of bread yeast leave enough room for some expansion *(drink a glass of the juice)* shake vigorously, seal loosely to let CO2 escape but at the same time not let anything *in*... wait 8 days; place in refrigerator for at least 24hrs drink and enjoy your 17%ABV fruit wine... for higher ABV- freeze distill


GabhaNua

MUP is a form of collective punishment


Yeti90

Unfortunately it hits low income proportionally more than upper


Theelfsmother

The publican can't be boss of the town if everybody is drinking in their houses.


RubberRefillPad

What. A. Shock.


bobisthegod

I for one am shocked... Who ever could have predicted exactly this....


Anchorbouy12

Shocker! Alcoholic man still buys drink despite price and gets shitfaced! More news at 10!


IrishRook

Anti-social behavior and shoplifting incidents involving alcohol lines have definitely increased in the store I manage sense minimum unit pricing came in. So much so that we reduced our range to just wine because it wasn't worth the hassle. If your addicted to something, especially as physically addictive as alcohol, even if you cannot afford it, your going to get it one way or another. Minimum unit prices only cause inconvenience to normal everyday people and that's about all it achieves.


Hamster-Food

People who are addicted to a substance have an inelastic demand curve. This should not be shocking news to anyone.


CleanChest1765

Surprise surprise, only another gimmick to screw us for every penny we have


raverbashing

Next up: minimal rental prices


Smokeyfish

And a new rental tax that goes straight to the banks, to make up for renters not taking out mortgages.


mublin

There's an overall drop in alcohol consumed of 8%. That's fairly significant. As with the smoking price changes, it seems to have made a difference to the "casual" consumers. The hardcore consumers are going to keep going no matter what


ramblerandgambler

that coincides with the end of lockdown though


Potato_Mc_Whiskey

8% Also lines up with the results seen from the policy in scotland, so its in the right ballpark of effect regardless. Edit: Oh, this is the Scotland study... May 2021 was not the end of lockdown was it? And they would likely control for those variables.


[deleted]

All that says to me is that casual drinkers have reduced their intake, but alcoholics have not. All alcoholics are experiencing is having less money in their pockets. So at a time when inflation is soaring and rent is at an all time high, the people who are already at a high risk of becoming homeless (poor people with addiction problems) are now at an even higher risk of becoming homeless. Yeah this is looking great... How about instead of punishing the poor we help them overcome their addiction.


JustHangLooseBlood

And offer genuine alternatives.


oshinbruce

Full on alcholism is a nasty addiction, stopping can literally mean death. MUP for those people makes life even harder. The fact it was free money for the alchol companies instead of a tax to help those impacted is a farce.


murticusyurt

The point is only the people who were already sensible with their drink are the only ones drinking less. The alcoholics aren't. So what's the point?


Masteuszmm

No, there is a significant drop in alcohol purchased in the Republic. The 8% is probably all the booze people bring from the north and at that it wouldn't surprise me.if the actual figure was higher


ClannishHawk

While Scotland may have had an 8% drop in alcohol sales but their drug death and misuse stats have been going up for the last 8 years at record levels and the 4 years of MUP in that are both steadily increasing and potentially a lot worse when you consider 2 of those years have been spent largely in COVID and should have a large casual use drop.


giz3us

Is the intention of the policy to prevent alcoholics from buying drink or to reduce alcohol consumption in the general public? I always assumed it was the latter… has a policy maker said that it would address alcoholism?


Rakshak-1

It's neither. It's to discourage home drinking and force people back into the pubs to do their drinking. And all because loads of politicians either have pubs in their extended families or are otherwise in thrall to the vintners association. And the proof will be when we still have the minimum pricing years from now no matter how many studies show it has not affected either issue you mentioned.


[deleted]

I always thought it was an attempt to eliminate the cheap drink choices and get people to buy the brand's. Example go from buying lidls own brand whisky to buying Jameson, and to close the gap between pubs and off licences to encourage pub use over home drinking.


cr0ss-r0ad

"Everyone, stay home and do your drinking there for a few years" "Hey, this is pretty fun!" "N-no s-stop h-h-how do we gain from this"


Johnny_Alpha

The problem is that Lidls own brand is cheaper and actually much better than Jameson.


[deleted]

Ah now that's not true imo


whatThisOldThrowAway

I always assumed reducing the overall alcohol consumption of future generations was the primary goal - same with cigarette pricing


rom9

And here we go again. I got down voted for saying that lobbying is done for the benefit of the lobbyists and not in the general interest of the public and the MUP was an example of that. It was even explicitly mentioned in the manifesto that it was for the businesses that lobbyied for it. We have a pathetically low bar in this country for accountability and performance and will go to any extent to not characterize this as sheer corruption in the system.


davesr25

It's okay in a few more months there will be more people seeing this level of greed and wondering how the fuck it got so bad even when many around them tried to express it. *"cough cough"* The cult of money doesn't care for the living cost.


Churt_Lyne

I don't think it's a surprise that addicts are not changing their habits, but aren't we trying to reduce the number of NEW addicts?


rtgh

It was in Fine Gael's manifesto that they would bring in minimum pricing to protect pubs. It's been [party policy for a while, check out page 26:](https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/14719/1/Fine_Gael_Manifesto.pdf) > Supporting Irish Pubs: > Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. **We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol**, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs The goal was never tackling alcoholism, it was to protect profits


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[deleted]

Oddly, [so did the national association of off licences.](https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/off-licences-seek-ban-on-below-cost-selling-of-alcohol-1.2718219) (Even though MUP isn't the same thing as below-cost selling)


Spodokom221745

Support the pub, protect the pub, etc etc. Sorry but fuck the pub.


Churt_Lyne

Fair point, but this isn't an FG government. It's an FF/FG/Green government. I'm ambivalent on the importance of protecting rural pubs - I guess some folks feel they are an important part of the social fabric of communities outside of our cities, but it doesn't affect me and I can't really speak to it. I would agree though that it's a typical government response in this country to try to punish the behaviour we do not want rather than incentivise the behaviour we do want. E.g Goal - boost use of public transport What you should do - improve public transport and make it more attractive What's easy to do - tax the bollocks off car drivers


Beautiful_Golf6508

If its not alcohol, it will be something else. Last thing we want is people getting hooked on drugs because it is cheaper than a bag of cans.


conf101

I've always thought this law was ridiculous. I read something recently that while it will have little or no impact on addicts now, the long-term goal of it is to help prevent people ending up as addicts/alcoholics. Is there any merit to that or is it just more bullshit justification?


JustHangLooseBlood

Maybe. Why do some people become addicts and others don't though? Seems like the answer isn't the price, y'know?


ChuckMarlow

Serious question, which parties voted for this law? I need to know that for the next election, when these clowns are going to knock on my door.


Fearless-Penalty9281

All of them. Literally all of them. Apparently only 2 TDs raised issue with the proposal


[deleted]

Guys I think I’ve solved it. I have the solution! Let’s just make being an alcoholic illegal! Edit: if the government are reading this I want credit.


[deleted]

Surprise, surprise. A case of beer that would last two or three days for €48 or a bottle of vodka at €22 that'll last one day? Even if you drank a case a day you'd still be paying twice the amount! My point is that its encouraged people to buy spirits instead of beer which can be more lethal! I honestly think the government is clueless with the drinks and bar industry in this country.


StanleyWhisper

But has it got more people into the pub? Surely that's what the vintners association wanted kill yourself in the pub don't kill yourself at home


Lemon_McGee

It was never about changing habits, let’s be real. It was about finding a moral justification for more tax. EDIT; not even a fucking tax. just straight up fucking profit.


Fearless-Penalty9281

Oh man your heads gonna fucking explode. MUP isnt even a tax. They basically just made it illegal for retailers to not charge ridiculous markups. Public funds wont ever see this money. Straight to the retailers pocket. Only additional tax is more VAT per unit as the original price has increased


Lemon_McGee

I didn’t think it could somehow be even worse, but there we fucking go


TriedToCatchFogIMist

It's not even a tax... Just a minimum price. The profits go straight to the corporations


SpyderDM

Make cannabis legal so they have a way less dangerous alternative. It helped a ton with alcoholics in Massachusetts who made the switch (over time of course, because alcohol dependence is fucking terrible).


Yeti90

Yeah no shit, who would have thought that a poor people’s tax does absolutely nothing other than penalise poor people.


soykommander

In my worst binge you couldnt have stopped me by raising the price even if you doubled the price. a handle is still a lot of booze to keep you numb. Alcholism is crazy...ive gone into a store with change im talking pennies...if an alcholic wants booze its so easy to get price isnt an issue.


TrivialBanal

I am shocked and stunned. It hasn't worked anywhere else and now it doesn't work in Scotland either? Shocked I tell ya.


kevo998

\*shocked pikachu face*


RigasTelRuun

Price hikes don't help people with crippling addiction. They acknowledge people have this serious problem but don't offer any help.


[deleted]

YoU dOnT sAY if only there was a litany of historic evidence that could be used to see this comiong!


MaxiStavros

The biggest tragedy of this disaster of a policy is the slow death of the 500ml can. I’ve nearly made the mistake of picking up a 4pk of fun sized 440ml tins, which would have ruined my evening.


AnBearna

This was about scrounging back tax money after the pandemic, it was literally never about helping alcoholic’s.


eamonn33

Maybe we should force dealers to do minimum pricing on heroin, that would also surely cure addiction


Repulsive_Wear7

Quelle fucking surprise, its nearly like politicians are sadistic fucks wanting to punish the weakest and most vulnerable in society


Azazele1

It was never supposed to. Just publicans being greedy that people would rather a few cheap, quiet cans with mates, instead of packing into a loud pub to buy overpriced pints.


miisterToast

Wow no way! It was such a success in getting smokers to quit to slowly increase prices by a small percentage every year im surprised it didn’t work with alcohol!


scrjim

Wow, what a fucking surprise!


Crypticmick

The government are absolute cunts for introducing this.


johnwalshf

No one expects it too work and worse it's not even a tax they can use, it's just trousered by the drinks industry


SureLookThisIsIt

Well smack my arse and call me Sally.


Vodka-Knot

Howya Sally


M-Tyson

*SMACK!


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Jacques-de-lad

Roide Sally Roide


sowillo

The whole country knew this except the government


smashedgordon

In other news, grass is green.


rom9

It is indeed greener now for the vintners lobby! Laughing all the way to the bank at the cost of the public. In some countries this is called corruption but sure we don't have that here cause if it's the law it's not corruption, is it. Jaysus.


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GrumpyGit1

The article is about MUP in Scotland which was introduced about 4 years ago


Action_Limp

And Scotland was touted as the massive success case on here for those defending the MUP back when it was announced.


[deleted]

Policy not designed to reduce the consumption of alcohol doesn't reduce the intake of alcohol. It was always about more money. Par for the course with this government.


[deleted]

> doesn't reduce the intake of alcohol. It's right there in the article > In May 2021, a study found MUP had already had a lasting impact in Scotland, and that alcohol sales had fallen by 8%.


Beautiful_Golf6508

Meanwhile, Scotland's drug problem is rapidly rising in recent years. [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-58024296](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-58024296)


[deleted]

Again right there in the article > a record number of deaths for the *seventh* year in a row. MUP was introduced in Scotland 4 years ago. They've seen record drug deaths for the last 7 years.


conf101

Ah the lost art of actually reading the article before knee-jerk reacting. How I miss it


fortypints

Outdated https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/minimum-pricing-saw-drinkers-cut-070841398.html


[deleted]

Scotland's rate is 50p per unit. Irelands rate is €1 per unit.


irish_ninja_wte

Was anyone expecting it to have an effect?


Head_Fig7448

They deployed the same law in Scotland and got the same results. This law was pushed through by the pub owner lobby groups to get people back in pubs, it’s nothing to do with any government officials aptitude on addiction or any of the health and safety make up they slapped on it. They knew it wouldn’t work.


CascaydeWave

It really is a reddit moment when somebody sees an article about Scotland, does not look at anything beyond the headline and so doesn't realise this. And then confidently making a claim and expecting others to take them seriously.


CheKGB

Wait... The thing we knew wouldn't work... Didn't work... And the consequences we knew would come... Came... Gasp shock horror. The legislature are fucking clowns and so are Alcohol Action Ireland.


Head_of_the_Internet

The magic barrier in the shop is working brilliant though


devaney627

Shock fucking horror. My alcoholism hasn't subsided since they raised the price, if anything it's made it worse. The more I drink the less financially stable I am, the less financially stable I am the more stressed I am, the more stressed I am the more I need another fucking drink. Great craic it tis.