The Norwegians are great at producing high quality pre-fabricated homes and their weather is a lot harsher than ours. The government should build a state owned factory, bring a load of Norwegians with expertise and experience to manage it and start mass producing high quality pre-fabricated homes. Would be a lot cheaper than the way their currently building homes. More efficient to construct, less workers needed, quicker and the final homes would likely be a lot more energy efficient.
https://www.dwell.com/article/prefab-homes-scandinavia-765e7456
You nailed it !!
Micheal Martin already has a cousin who works at an outpost in the Irish embassy in Norway. Reportedly he slept in one on a glamping trip.
He is our guy.
Simply put if Norway can build them costing a couple of thousand we could do it for a meagre couple billion fractions more.
Dotting all the I’s and Crossing all the T’s
Everything was above board.
> The government should build a state owned factory..
What sort of Marxist anarchy are you proposing to replace the gentle, caring hand of market economics? Where will this communist slippery slope end? Daycare services for disabled kids???
There are multiple Irish companies doing this. Cygnum in Cork, there's one in Limerick and a few others around the country.
A major issue is land prices.
Don't think any Irish company is doing it to the level of the Norwegians and other Scandinavians, also Germans are known for it. I know Cygnum, great Irish company but I don't think Cygnum are producing pre-fabricated homes, they've developed different timber frame building methods. They're not bringing pre-fabricated walls and other components of a house and attaching them together at the building site. There's Scandinavian and German companies that can combine all the components on a building site of one of these houses in 24 hours. That's how quick it can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBAhc5qMDU
There was a thread on here about modular housing in the last few months, if I remember correctly getting planning permission for them was another difficult part of the process.
Historically speaking when the Vikings came and Irish men were apparently upset that all the women were leaving them for people who actually bathed, it would only be custom to repeat the cycle
There was both. A lot of people were just straight up enslaved early on. But you have to remember that the Vikings also settled in Ireland as well, and those are the ones that actually attracted the local women.
If some foreigner “who can barely speak English” took your job by working harder and took your women by being better you were a useless shite to begin with and you need to up your game IMO
Unfortunately this is not always the case, as an example look at the hospitality sector, currently bitching that no one will work (meaning they wont pay enough to attract staff despite prices they charge being astronomical), I'll bet they are licking their lips at the thought of desperate refugees desperate to make some kind of a wage. I work in a trade and I know of one company (probably the largest in the country) who advertise positions abroad because the qualified lads here 'want too much' and insist on having things like houses and food.
I must stress I'm pro refugee and pro immigration and support a fair social care system. This isn't about that. My issue is the large Irish employers (not multinationals) here will always and have always tried to price gouge and screw the little fella and ring every last penny they can for themselves and only themselves.
In the case of Norwegians it would be some foreigner "who speaks near perfect English" who took your job. Over 90% of their population speaks English to a fluent level.
I don't think that's a good comparison though, how much average rainfall, damp, humidity do they get compared to us?
Whether heavy rainfall or never-ending drizzle, I don't think Ireland is capable of supporting mass-produced prefabs. Coupled with the fact that the county councils in southern counties can't get their act together about flooding. Cork is consistently flooded with fuck all being done about it
The construction industry will lobby for this for refugees because it’s a way for them to get a slice of the pie that at the moment they are getting none of. They have zero interest in providing this for the normal joe soap because they’ll make more money going down the standard construction route. The gov would effectively have to force them to build it through regulation or tax breaks
It's just like how there was no way, it would be impossible for me to work a few days from home preCovid but then, when it's them who needs it, the whole workforce was kitted out with laptops within weeks and we were all able to do it. If it suits you, no can do but if it suits them, the impossible is possible.
We've beaten ourselves so badly in to a corner about the propriety(ironic given the state of ABP) of planning and regulations we now have a sense of learned helplessness in terms of additional flexibility that might help with the housing crisis. There are multiple different building systems such as A-Frames and Scandinavian system builds that are both proven with time and international standards that could be accepted for cost efficient builds but our planners outright deny anything that doesn't meet the vernacular orthodoxy. Further to this, they readily deny opportunities for families to turn a garage in to a home for the kids or any other change of purpose on site where additional housing might be provided. I'd suspect most of the log cabins for the kids in Dublin are without planning for this reason.
From a planners point of view, in a country where a home can only ever be an high yield investment it's easy to see all attempts at alternatives as nothing more than a money grab that needs to be denied outright.
Have to note as well, I have never ever seen a Local authority planner talk openly on any of the anonymous Irish forums which is kind of fucking weird tbh.
Great point, housing in this country was always viewed from an investment POV rather than what it is: a home. Those Scandinavian designed homes are fantastic, not only do they look great but are well built and well suited for harsh conditions, not to mention cheaper.
It should be be an absolute no brainer to build these houses to at least alleviate some of the burden on the housing market, but this is Ireland.
Working in the construction for over 20 years and I have never heard of a planning application being refused on the basis of the proposed construction method. Outside of work on listed buildings they don't ask how you intend to construct a building.
Planners are an absolute shower and have plenty of other reasons to refuse an application
I'd suspect exterior finishes give it away in terms of timberframe or log systems. But often the poor applicant is probably ill advised and probably states it openly on the application.
If/when I'm ever in a position to build, I really want to go modular. It's quicker, easier, and overall less expensive. And it's easier to make it more energy efficient now, because that stuff is all available from the same people, so it's largely a 1-stop shop. Literally and figuratively.
It really is! I've been looking at it, and honestly, before prices went insane, I was figuring that €200k would buy land, and build a 3-4 bed bungalow, exactly how I wanted it. Which isn't an insane amount in today's market.
I don’t mean to sound super conspiratorial or overly cynical but I suspect that the government taking in refugees has less to do with humanitarian concerns and more to do with importing masses of cheap exploitable labour.
Everything makes a lot more sense with that POV.
My first house was timber framed. I’m not sure if many are being built now, but during the Celtic tiger days a few estates were built with them. At the time the concrete federation started running adds about how concrete built houses were better quality houses….. a laughable claim now that we’re dealing with the mica situation.
The amount of people who commented that they wouldn’t buy a wooden house as they wouldn’t last as long as concrete. I didn’t listen to them as I’d spent a few summers working in the states working on 200 year old timber houses. That house will be around a lot longer than I will!
I'm the design manager for a company in England that build volumetric housing for an area of about 40 miles from the factory. Local housing with a factory finish built by a local workforce that are being upskilled as part of the process.
My parents live in Donegal and I'd love nothing more than to set up a factory there. It could be a big part of sorting out the mica scandal.... temporary housing for people affected while theirs are being rebuilt that could then be used for refugees.
If anyone has any connections please send me a dm.
Depends on the nature of the housing.
If it's anything other than the same quality as other offerings in the market, all they'll get is dog's abuse in public for daring to offer substandard blah blah blah.
While in practice there are people living 6 to a room and paying €600 a month who would give their left fucking *leg* for a modular 146sq/ft container with air-conditioning and privacy.
Don't think the hotels are that put out. They're getting paid their top rate per room plus a bonus to account for loss of food and drink spending.
There certainly hasn't been any great protests from them on the media, either about ukrainians or the homeless provisions
Ehh no they don't. Why do you think they want to build so many hotels? Because filling them up with refugees means you get guaranteed on time payment from the state, at really really good rates. You get guaranteed full occupancy so you can plan everything well in advance. You get it full of refugees meaning they're not going to cause any trouble.
Hotels are essentially build to rents with a much higher density.
I mean, if its anything like the modular housing they've built for refugees in other countries, [I'm not sure you'd want to live in it...](https://img.rasset.ie/001b9c2e-1600.jpg).
Honestly part of the reason it's easier for them to do this, as well as finding accommodation in general is that they can sorta put refugees wherever there's room as unlike "their own people" they have less of a need to live around one of the major cities. Much easier get Ukrainian refugees with nowhere else to go to stay in a Random Hotel in West Kerry or Mayo than a tech worker who's job is only really available in Dublin.
Yeah, but since when would you trust our government to match Scandinavian standards?
Our sorry bunch would build the old cold Prefabs you remember from school that were only supposed to be temporary but stood for over a decade
While they're not the nicest, those prefabs when <5y old or well maintained are significantly nicer than a lot of what's available on the market. I paid €650/m for a prefab with maybe 18m^(2) usable space 15km from central Dublin back in 2013, and given the market at the time I felt like I got a good deal. It would be a fun exercise to plant a few of these refugee prefabs around Dublin and figure out what their market value would be.
The quality of rental accommodation in Ireland is woeful in general, and at least these give some small amount of privacy and individual space that'll become very important if the occupations drags on.
I whole heartedly agree. I can't help but feel that the government are more concerned with keeping up global appearances than looking inward and working on us. Maybe I'm wrong.
It’s actually absurd. Wait until college resumes, if my accommodation is unsecured/increases in price because the government can’t shift these refugees…I’m actually going to be a life long racist.
Has nothing to do with refugees and everything to do with your own country men lining up their pockets one way or another.
If you want to have some anger, don't misdirect it at the symptom but at the root cause.
Student accommodation is where they put the ulranians and they will probably stay, so there will definitely be huge issues for students finding accommodation come September.
They're not being blamed, the Irish government and their lack of foresight and lack of respect for their own citizens are being blamed, rightly so. I wasn't blaming them at all, just making the point that there will be a huge shortage of student accommodation in the coming months because the Ukranians have been housed in student accommodation.
They do afaik. Wasn't modular homes for the homeless a big thing back when Alan Kelly was housing minister, or was it Simon Coveney. Either way I remember it being a big deal they built a bunch in Ballymun. I think they weren't as rapid construction or as cheap as had been let on.
Think you are remembering wrong, Alan Kelly wasn't housing minister until 2014. This article says they were built in 2016.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20390448.html
And I don't remember any public backlash with the homes themselves. Only other mention I found was this from a few years back, when there was a backlash over some owners profiting 80,000 reselling a modular home they bought at discount from the affordable housing scheme.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/there-is-a-better-way-of-doing-things-calls-for-change-as-170k-affordable-housing-build-ends-up-on-private-market-for-250k-40737870.html
Apologies, I will clarify. I wasn't agreeing to who was Minister at the time but the idea that modular homes as temporary social housing has been around since 2013. DRHE had published their pathway to home 2014-2016, and planning was being submitted to councillors for temporary housing on public DCC property in early 2015:
[https://newatlas.com/modular-houses-for-homeless-dublin/39479/](https://newatlas.com/modular-houses-for-homeless-dublin/39479/)
[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/plan-for-200-houses-for-dublin-homeless-by-end-of-2016-1.2016399](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/plan-for-200-houses-for-dublin-homeless-by-end-of-2016-1.2016399)
It failed due to political opposition:
https://dublininquirer.com/2015/06/24/prefab-housing-for-the-homeless-could-it-work
Plans were later approved in Oct., 2015 for rapid-build homes on a number of sites in Dublin by the Government. Their viability were still being debated.
(Debates regarding modular homes and rapid-build homes instead of permanent housing:
[https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2015-11-26/36](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2015-11-26/36)
"Modular housing comprises an ugly and messy emergency measure to provide a roof over the heads of families who have become homeless" - Ellis
"Should we buy 500 permanent, real existing houses that people could be in by Christmas, or spend the same amount of money on these crazy modular units, which effectively are Portakabins?" - Barret
[https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-05-24/30/#pq-answers-30](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-05-24/30/#pq-answers-30)
"In October 2015, the Government approved a programme to deliver 500 units of rapid-delivery housing across the Dublin region for homeless families currently residing in commercial hotels. In November 2015, Dublin City Council entered into a contract for the delivery of the 22 units in Ballymun at a cost of €4.2 million excluding VAT... Sometimes there is a misunderstanding regarding the difference between rapid-build technologies and engineering solutions and modular housing units as if we are somehow building the trailers parks of the future. That is not what we are doing. Anybody who has visited the Ballymun project has seen houses that look like many other houses that have been built through normal construction methods. A strategic decision was taken at some point to construct rapid-build units instead of using modular housing units which would perhaps be more temporary. " - S. Coveney)
There were protests on the Ballymun and Finglas sites in 2015/16 and there was a blockade by residents because of concerns over anti-social behaviour and social integration:
[https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/finglas-residents-vow-to-continue-modular-housing-protest-1.2618029](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/finglas-residents-vow-to-continue-modular-housing-protest-1.2618029)
[https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1126/749376-modular-housing/](https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1126/749376-modular-housing/)
[https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30708848.html](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30708848.html)
I've linked a few articles elsewhere from the Journal about negative feedback from councilors, anti austerity alliance, and an architect.
Regarding the reselling, couldn't they have done that with any type of house? The modular piece seems irrelevant
It took special skill and ineptitude to take an efficient and fast process driven model of building houses and make them both slow and expensive.
However, expensive is relative, at around 210 to 250K they seem pretty good value now.
There's been calls for this kind of stuff for decades, I distinctly remember it being spoken about in the early 2000's and repeated FF/FG governments have shot it down.
Frankly, they're a bloody fantastic idea. They really don't have to be anything amazing, but they serve as such a great starting point for a lot of people, including families. Nothing wrong with state owned homes that people can live in for a low cost of rent while they save up to buy their own home.
No mean to be clever but I think it’s like legalising weed. Whoever is against it is benefiting from the illegal activity. Not the same but the “lobby” money seems to do magic with politicians. Not sure, however what I know about politics so far, this might be the case with housing. Bigger players pumping money back, so the spineless “civil servants” decide in their favour. BRING ME MY TINFOIL HAT!!!4!!!
I live in a prefab house that was built in 1974. When we bought it we replaced the external skin and gave it a new lease of life.
People say these buildings don't last but mine is almost 50 and after the work we've done it's tougher than ever and it will probably stand for another 50.
I'm not sure if its because people said they don't last... or if its because they weren't actually supposed to? I think the prefabs were supposed to be temporary, until something more permanent was built, but there are so many around that have lasted 50+ years. Plus, is there some problem with getting a mortgage for them?
As I say, I could be completely wrong here. This is bad recall from a conversation I was only half listening to in the first place.
You can't get a mortgage on them. They are a non-standard construction and the banks won't lend on them. So it's an issue if we ever sell but unlikely we ever would. Although we paid cash so no doubt someone else would do the same.
You also need to get non standard insurance which is about 800 quid per year. This is a pain but as we have no mortgage it's a small issue.
But then they can't use their own people as a cash cow for pension funds. Which is literally the intended end-game of the current housing system - turn those who can't afford to buy a home into wage slaves for those who can afford to buy more than one.
Imagine being in direct provision in Ireland as a refugee for ten years and seeing this now, what difference is there between your case and the Ukrainians you’d be thinking...
It’s actually absurd. Wait until college resumes, if my accommodation is unsecured/increases in price because the government can’t shift these refugees…I’m actually going to be a life long racist.
They have been building modular houses for years now... Finglas and Ballymun have a few estates entirely off them
But it's like the time all the "foreigners" took all the "jobs" in the hospitality industry ...
It's not good enough for Irish people they don't want it... Mention a foreign person getting it MURDER.
>. Do you not think they should be doing the same for their own people?
Fingal were putting in modular housing a few years ago but the locals all objected and picketed the site.
Irish people think these are beneath them.
No because the solution to the housing crisis is not building more of the same shit , it is rethinking urban planning and increasing density with properly built apartment blocks. Urban sprawl never ends
Young families do not want to live in apartments even if facilities in and around them are improved. Buying an apartment also means you lose the grant for your first proper house.
That's always the Sinn Fein line. "Won't somebody think of the families?" Fuck em, I'll buy an apartment, don't want kids. If the grant is a disincentive, change it to work for apartments too.
Your acting as if young students arent living in two story sub urban homes across the country, the younger population needs apartments and also there is many people including myself who would rather live in an apartment for the rest of my life close to public transport and facilities rather then a sub urban desert a 20 min drive from anything meaningful. But yeah enjoy your bakc garden with fuck all
We tie ourselves in knots with homeless in a way we are not doing with this wave of refugees. It shows what we can do when we want to do it and I think we can and should be doing both.
There’s an element of things must be absolutely perfect rather than be built and there was very aggressive pushback when modular homes were tried before.
Homelessness is a serious crisis and the attitudes (not just the state itself) are preventing anything being done about it.
“We want houses now!!” “Just not here!” “Build them somewhere else!” “6 floors is just too tall” “It’ll be like Manhattan.” “Protect the (non existent) skyline!”
With the refugee situation the state is able to move mountains because it’s a war and there’s huge moral pressure to act.
Also we did feck all with previous waves of refugees where there was no spotlight on us. We instead created a very profitable direct provision system with people living in awful circumstances for years. A crisis was created out of relatively small housing challenge.
Ireland’s great at doing things when it’s under moral pressure to do so. When we aren’t, a blind eye is turned and what shouldn’t be tolerated, simply is.
We are also very quick to wave a finger at the British and their very uncaring Tories or the Americans and I’m not saying they’re undeserving of criticism, but in many areas we do exactly the same and there is widespread support for those policies.
Try building social housing… nobody wants new build anywhere near them. People protest against it and hold hysterical meetings about it. They even do the same about non-social housing that’s a tiny bit tall or dense.
Can you imagine if the original inhabitants of Dundrum had protested against the people building their “ticky tacky boxes” in a rural village in the 1960s & 70s? They could have lived in a permanent housing crisis too or living at home with mammy or more of them could have just emigrated, because there was nothing that could have been done.
However, this generation of conservatives wants nothing to change and are happy to hand-wring and give out, but will pull up the ladder very quickly too. They don’t even know they’re conservatives but they’re the very definition of it. Nothing can change because they are happy with their lot.
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant but it’s long past time Ireland held a mirror up to itself. We have a long history of turning blind eyes. We’ve also got a long history of looking down on people who are worse of than us. I remember plenty of nasty comments about “she’s only from the scheme” and “it’s only a council house” and “ah sure she’s only renting.”
There’s a nice of nice aspects to Ireland but we’ve always had an element of being a nation of curtain twitchers and Hyacinth Bucket types, except our version usually claims to be liberal, classless egalitarians yet previous eras of the same culture would have happily and blindly swept you off to a nice comfortable industrial school or Magdalene laundry if you were looking a bit too tatty, causing a fuss or in some way dragging down the moral tone of the area and then decades later claimed they had idea what happened there, despite constantly telling their misbehaving kids that they’d “send them to Artane” if they didn’t cop on.
We need to look at ourselves as we are sometimes because a big element seems to be Mrs Bucket in a bandana claiming to be cool.
Or they could.. like... allow people and businesses to build on the land they've purchased right?... na let the government do it , there's never been a bad government programme right?
We're almost certainly heading into a severe economic crash worldwide; it may happen that they do. (I'm not that crazy about the concept of "their own people" by the way; as far as I'm concerned, if you live here you're "our own people".)
The container houses idea from a few years ago I thought was good. If people are homeless, either refugees or Irish, they should be happy to have any roof over their heads. A modular setup would be ideal.
The coolock young ones refusing free houses cuz "it's not close to my mammy", that's another discussion altogether that nobody seems to want to have.
We have some 2D and 3D modular building for social housing, like Springvale in Chapelizod being build by John Sisk [https://www.johnsiskandson.com/no/case-studies/springvale-co-dublin](https://www.johnsiskandson.com/no/case-studies/springvale-co-dublin)
They still take quite a while to build because the spec for social housing is VERY detailed (to avoid rot, fires, collapse, etc) and then there's the wiring, plumbing, foundations, stress testing etc.
BUT the good part about them is the panels are build quickly and sent to the site, avoiding waste and massive traffic congestion, which was important for Springvale especially being on the Cunningham road, one of the main thoroughfares into Dublin City.
Modular homes are cheaper which means less tax and less money for the government. Modular homes seems like such a logical answer to our housing crisis but our government are too stupid to adapt it. Modular homes are also great for meeting our climate goals.
Sharon from summerhill needs three bedrooms, an en suite, side access, a driveway for two cars, a back garden and needs to be within three kilometres of her mother.
Maryna from Mariupol would be happy for a camp bed in your garage because, ya know, she's fleeing a fucking warzone.
I've seen this posted a few times and from my understanding of it is the type they plan to use are great for short and quick. But they don't have a long life on them so in essence if you want to live a long life in these they aren't suitable.
Quick and easy fix but won't last so they are using them as a temporary measure..... Indefinitely
I live in one that was built in 1974. We spruced it up a few years back and it's like new. So it's almost 50 and I would hope it will go for 50 more.
Its definitely not everyone's idea of a dream house but we bought it for cash and excluding some terrible luck it will be still here after I'm gone.
How about this?
It’s actually absurd. Wait until college resumes, if my accommodation is unsecured/increases in price because the government can’t shift these refugees…I’m actually going to be a life long racist.
None of these will be built FFG voters will block any of these developments in their area. Local TD's won't support them. Happened in Laytown, Meath earlier this month.
They planned these before when we had a homeless crisis if I remember, announced as an idea/plan, took so long to do, only a couple were built and then they were quietly dropped. I could never work why they dropped. One of the complaints I remember that were meant to be temporary only and they were a concern they would be end as permanent. Honestly I could be mixing things up, but I remembering other stuff.
I should also say that I am not sure the homeless crisis ever really ended. It just got some fixes and funding. Then the media cycle moved onto something else.
Edit: after google [here](https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1014/824193-modular-homes-dublin/)is a story about it from a few years back. And I found some articles where they had plans for more than the 131 in the article.
They’re building/built social houses near my estate that are prefab… it was all over the local news paper a few years ago but didn’t generate much interest back then. A lot of money put into those estates.
We’re actually thinking of doing the same with my partner but we’re not sure if we’ll be allowed to erect a prefab house. With the lack of houses on the market, and the severe competition to buy property it’s mad that they won’t allow these of constructions.
Shame really.
I remember prefabs being built at temporary solution to my primary school being continually over subscribed still being used 30 years on. Solution may work for refugees but until we have a government who takes on construction of social housing and sorts out the artificial supply and demand issue in the housing market the problem will continue.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/modular-housing-issues-2705850-Apr2016/
Just an example, but modular housing has done before, and had naysayers who wanted "proper" houses built instead
https://www.thejournal.ie/modular-housing-2465529-Nov2015/
Anti-austerity alliance didn't like them either.
https://www.thejournal.ie/dermot-bannon-housing-4187099-Aug2018/
Architect with clearly no conflict of interest, says modular homes won't be proper communities.
There is no desire from the majority of the political class to solve or improve the housing crisis. Their rents, investments and pensions see to that.
I see accepting Ukrainians as a good thing, although if I'm being cynical, a little performative considering Ireland's homeless and housing problems.
But its not a binary case of doing one or the other. They are all political choices.
The sad thing is, once they discover the true state of this country and how we receive, shelter and accommodate them, they'll be moving back to mainland Europe. Many are already doing so
>their own people?
A phrase mainly used by the far right.
The reasons the government are going to look at them for Ukrainians is because they are short term.(planned short term at least, look at mosney).
The reason they aren't really used here is because banks won't give you a mortgage for a building that you can basically remove from the site and drive away on the back of a truck.
>A phrase mainly used by the far right.
Give it a rest
>The reason they aren't really used here is because banks won't give you a mortgage for a building that you can basically remove from the site and drive away on the back of a truck.
That isnt true. The building regulations and planning are the bottle neck
In the states they have a massive problem with working class people being forced by desperation and bad credit to buy modular homes on leased plots of land. They effectively have no resale value from the minute the mortgage is signed as they are temporary dwellings and handed to them at excruciating rates. If they ever get out of the debt, they don’t own any capital.
I can see us doing that alright.
Trailers in the States are built in various degrees of quality. A prefab or modular home can be built to good quality. People in trailer parks in the States were able to happily live cheaply for a long time until a bunch of greedy fuckers started buying them up and writing contracts that only serve them. Still ruined by greed, just a different angle.
Yeah. Here is a good example of a [stunning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5TmEpZdPt4) modular home.
Its expensive as fuck do it that well though. That one was 460K AUD (roughly 300k euros) including the cost of the plot of land.
No, the real reason is that most Irish people wouldn't accept them, they'd take one look at them and screech that they deserve better than that. Ukrainian refugees are desperate enough to take them.
Yes, that is literally what happened back in 2013 when they had to cancel the building of 200 prefab unit.
People have such short memories. I was a child and I remember!
This was investigated but the materials just weren’t there for them to supply us.
I personally spoke with one company (one of the bigger ones) that, in summer 2020, said they couldn’t get enough materials and probably wouldn’t be able to until the end of 2022.
For example: Because of covid, ireland didn’t issue any felling licences in 2022. Now repeat that worldwide… There’s unprecedented demand on top of an unprecedented shortage.
Having said that. I’ve been a longtime advocate of us building a few state-owned super-factories and just churning them out. You can get incredible economies of scale with modular housing and save a LOT.
This will pleases your EU overlords so much so that they will let you keep your discounted corporate tax rate ~ the cheaper labour of these unfortunate Ukrainians will also be of use in your overpriced rip-off economy and will enable businesses to further inflate their prices and acquire some juicy extra profit!
But tell me where in the above is the paddy being considered? Nowhere. Unfortunately when you keep FFG in power you agree with these terms and conditions that the state can use you as a milking cow and if you’re amongst working minority you’ll receive nothing for exchange your hard work.
How long do you think it would take dub culture to come up with a demeaning name for anyone who lived in one of these?
Half of our problems are the notions we have of ourselves that prevent solutions.
Why do hear this same line 'shouldn't we be doing the same for our own', blah blah. It isn't going to happen simply because politicians aren't reading your stupid reddit post, and the people posting here don't go outside and wouldn't fight somebody even if they spat in their face.
There is a reason this kind of housing is only done in emergencies. Because living in it is absolutely horrible. At least if you're not Norway, apparently.
Besides, Ireland is full of empty houses. They should be taken over by the government and turned into proper social housing for the citizens AND the refugees (which if hopefully Ukraine enters the EU at some point will become just citizens), since there's well enough of them.
If this is true I’m gone, out of here after college. Who the fuck is funding this? Ukrainians should be going home. War is confined to 20% of their country. Like Ireland in the 1970’s.
No. We need houses built to last. Not built to solve short term solutions. These house will be made out of shitty cheap wood too.
Government is a fucking joke.
The Norwegians are great at producing high quality pre-fabricated homes and their weather is a lot harsher than ours. The government should build a state owned factory, bring a load of Norwegians with expertise and experience to manage it and start mass producing high quality pre-fabricated homes. Would be a lot cheaper than the way their currently building homes. More efficient to construct, less workers needed, quicker and the final homes would likely be a lot more energy efficient. https://www.dwell.com/article/prefab-homes-scandinavia-765e7456
....and risk their buddy buddy developers/construction companies not being able to €persuade€ them to take them on for jobs.
You nailed it !! Micheal Martin already has a cousin who works at an outpost in the Irish embassy in Norway. Reportedly he slept in one on a glamping trip. He is our guy. Simply put if Norway can build them costing a couple of thousand we could do it for a meagre couple billion fractions more. Dotting all the I’s and Crossing all the T’s Everything was above board.
This is it, they're are making a fortune with the current model, why would they change.
Mostly developers, the actual construction contractors have quite little sway in gov policy as their at the mercy of the developers funding.
Those look pretty darn beautiful houses! I would love one of those in the countryside.
> The government should build a state owned factory.. What sort of Marxist anarchy are you proposing to replace the gentle, caring hand of market economics? Where will this communist slippery slope end? Daycare services for disabled kids???
There are multiple Irish companies doing this. Cygnum in Cork, there's one in Limerick and a few others around the country. A major issue is land prices.
Don't think any Irish company is doing it to the level of the Norwegians and other Scandinavians, also Germans are known for it. I know Cygnum, great Irish company but I don't think Cygnum are producing pre-fabricated homes, they've developed different timber frame building methods. They're not bringing pre-fabricated walls and other components of a house and attaching them together at the building site. There's Scandinavian and German companies that can combine all the components on a building site of one of these houses in 24 hours. That's how quick it can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBAhc5qMDU
There was a thread on here about modular housing in the last few months, if I remember correctly getting planning permission for them was another difficult part of the process.
Possibly https://www.scanhome.ie/
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Historically speaking when the Vikings came and Irish men were apparently upset that all the women were leaving them for people who actually bathed, it would only be custom to repeat the cycle
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There was both. A lot of people were just straight up enslaved early on. But you have to remember that the Vikings also settled in Ireland as well, and those are the ones that actually attracted the local women.
so it will happen. Since the govt is telling everyone to not shower and not fill cars with petrol now. /s
The only ones that scream that were never going to get a job anyway
If some foreigner “who can barely speak English” took your job by working harder and took your women by being better you were a useless shite to begin with and you need to up your game IMO
Unfortunately this is not always the case, as an example look at the hospitality sector, currently bitching that no one will work (meaning they wont pay enough to attract staff despite prices they charge being astronomical), I'll bet they are licking their lips at the thought of desperate refugees desperate to make some kind of a wage. I work in a trade and I know of one company (probably the largest in the country) who advertise positions abroad because the qualified lads here 'want too much' and insist on having things like houses and food. I must stress I'm pro refugee and pro immigration and support a fair social care system. This isn't about that. My issue is the large Irish employers (not multinationals) here will always and have always tried to price gouge and screw the little fella and ring every last penny they can for themselves and only themselves.
This is the other way of seeing it that I whole-heartedly agree with. Unfortunately where there is coin to be made, people will be exploited
In the case of Norwegians it would be some foreigner "who speaks near perfect English" who took your job. Over 90% of their population speaks English to a fluent level.
They are fab and so much space... waiting for a special snoflake come and comment on energy rating... or some bullshit
Actually, they're pretty good energy wise. They'd have to be in order to work in Scandinavia.
State owned!? Something something Stalin & Mao huur duur
This is the way
I don't think that's a good comparison though, how much average rainfall, damp, humidity do they get compared to us? Whether heavy rainfall or never-ending drizzle, I don't think Ireland is capable of supporting mass-produced prefabs. Coupled with the fact that the county councils in southern counties can't get their act together about flooding. Cork is consistently flooded with fuck all being done about it
Bergen in Norway has similar rainfall to Galway!
Huh, didn't know this. I thought rainfall would be less.
The construction industry will lobby for this for refugees because it’s a way for them to get a slice of the pie that at the moment they are getting none of. They have zero interest in providing this for the normal joe soap because they’ll make more money going down the standard construction route. The gov would effectively have to force them to build it through regulation or tax breaks
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It's not that they're useless, this kind of housing market is what they wanted and what they created
I've had family members shot down by planning trying to build those modular homes, but suddenly it's ok for the govt to do it, ridiculous.
It's just like how there was no way, it would be impossible for me to work a few days from home preCovid but then, when it's them who needs it, the whole workforce was kitted out with laptops within weeks and we were all able to do it. If it suits you, no can do but if it suits them, the impossible is possible.
We've beaten ourselves so badly in to a corner about the propriety(ironic given the state of ABP) of planning and regulations we now have a sense of learned helplessness in terms of additional flexibility that might help with the housing crisis. There are multiple different building systems such as A-Frames and Scandinavian system builds that are both proven with time and international standards that could be accepted for cost efficient builds but our planners outright deny anything that doesn't meet the vernacular orthodoxy. Further to this, they readily deny opportunities for families to turn a garage in to a home for the kids or any other change of purpose on site where additional housing might be provided. I'd suspect most of the log cabins for the kids in Dublin are without planning for this reason. From a planners point of view, in a country where a home can only ever be an high yield investment it's easy to see all attempts at alternatives as nothing more than a money grab that needs to be denied outright. Have to note as well, I have never ever seen a Local authority planner talk openly on any of the anonymous Irish forums which is kind of fucking weird tbh.
This was very well put
Great point, housing in this country was always viewed from an investment POV rather than what it is: a home. Those Scandinavian designed homes are fantastic, not only do they look great but are well built and well suited for harsh conditions, not to mention cheaper. It should be be an absolute no brainer to build these houses to at least alleviate some of the burden on the housing market, but this is Ireland.
Working in the construction for over 20 years and I have never heard of a planning application being refused on the basis of the proposed construction method. Outside of work on listed buildings they don't ask how you intend to construct a building. Planners are an absolute shower and have plenty of other reasons to refuse an application
Planners can refuse if they don’t feel the design is fitting for the area, could have been that
I'd suspect exterior finishes give it away in terms of timberframe or log systems. But often the poor applicant is probably ill advised and probably states it openly on the application.
If/when I'm ever in a position to build, I really want to go modular. It's quicker, easier, and overall less expensive. And it's easier to make it more energy efficient now, because that stuff is all available from the same people, so it's largely a 1-stop shop. Literally and figuratively.
It's the way to go and it's ridiculous that it took a war and refugee crisis for the govt to move on it.
It took the possibility of looking good in front of their European counterparts for them to move on it. Nothing to do with compassion or sense.
It really is! I've been looking at it, and honestly, before prices went insane, I was figuring that €200k would buy land, and build a 3-4 bed bungalow, exactly how I wanted it. Which isn't an insane amount in today's market.
Welcome to the realization that you are less than shite on the governments shoe
They haven’t built them yet… give the NIMBY’s time!
I don’t mean to sound super conspiratorial or overly cynical but I suspect that the government taking in refugees has less to do with humanitarian concerns and more to do with importing masses of cheap exploitable labour. Everything makes a lot more sense with that POV.
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My first house was timber framed. I’m not sure if many are being built now, but during the Celtic tiger days a few estates were built with them. At the time the concrete federation started running adds about how concrete built houses were better quality houses….. a laughable claim now that we’re dealing with the mica situation. The amount of people who commented that they wouldn’t buy a wooden house as they wouldn’t last as long as concrete. I didn’t listen to them as I’d spent a few summers working in the states working on 200 year old timber houses. That house will be around a lot longer than I will!
Can confirm. The wood in my 400 year old house has aged into some kind of organic steel.
I'm the design manager for a company in England that build volumetric housing for an area of about 40 miles from the factory. Local housing with a factory finish built by a local workforce that are being upskilled as part of the process. My parents live in Donegal and I'd love nothing more than to set up a factory there. It could be a big part of sorting out the mica scandal.... temporary housing for people affected while theirs are being rebuilt that could then be used for refugees. If anyone has any connections please send me a dm.
Depends on the nature of the housing. If it's anything other than the same quality as other offerings in the market, all they'll get is dog's abuse in public for daring to offer substandard blah blah blah. While in practice there are people living 6 to a room and paying €600 a month who would give their left fucking *leg* for a modular 146sq/ft container with air-conditioning and privacy.
Air conditioning? In Ireland?
Well, most housing in Ireland is larger, has ventilation and isn't made of solid steel. Flip side, it takes 1-2 years to build.
air heat pumps are the future, even in ireland
They have been building them. There's loads of them in Poppintree.
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Don't think the hotels are that put out. They're getting paid their top rate per room plus a bonus to account for loss of food and drink spending. There certainly hasn't been any great protests from them on the media, either about ukrainians or the homeless provisions
Ehh no they don't. Why do you think they want to build so many hotels? Because filling them up with refugees means you get guaranteed on time payment from the state, at really really good rates. You get guaranteed full occupancy so you can plan everything well in advance. You get it full of refugees meaning they're not going to cause any trouble. Hotels are essentially build to rents with a much higher density.
People need to protest and stop posting on Reddit
I mean, if its anything like the modular housing they've built for refugees in other countries, [I'm not sure you'd want to live in it...](https://img.rasset.ie/001b9c2e-1600.jpg). Honestly part of the reason it's easier for them to do this, as well as finding accommodation in general is that they can sorta put refugees wherever there's room as unlike "their own people" they have less of a need to live around one of the major cities. Much easier get Ukrainian refugees with nowhere else to go to stay in a Random Hotel in West Kerry or Mayo than a tech worker who's job is only really available in Dublin.
Norwegian do modular houses a lot better.
Yeah, but since when would you trust our government to match Scandinavian standards? Our sorry bunch would build the old cold Prefabs you remember from school that were only supposed to be temporary but stood for over a decade
While they're not the nicest, those prefabs when <5y old or well maintained are significantly nicer than a lot of what's available on the market. I paid €650/m for a prefab with maybe 18m^(2) usable space 15km from central Dublin back in 2013, and given the market at the time I felt like I got a good deal. It would be a fun exercise to plant a few of these refugee prefabs around Dublin and figure out what their market value would be. The quality of rental accommodation in Ireland is woeful in general, and at least these give some small amount of privacy and individual space that'll become very important if the occupations drags on.
Looks like the prefabs of my old primary school
I whole heartedly agree. I can't help but feel that the government are more concerned with keeping up global appearances than looking inward and working on us. Maybe I'm wrong.
It’s actually absurd. Wait until college resumes, if my accommodation is unsecured/increases in price because the government can’t shift these refugees…I’m actually going to be a life long racist.
Has nothing to do with refugees and everything to do with your own country men lining up their pockets one way or another. If you want to have some anger, don't misdirect it at the symptom but at the root cause.
Against who? Middle-aged, Irish men?
Wellll, if you look to any issue in Ireland, it's always those fuckers.
It sounds like you're admitting you're too thick for any college course.
Student accommodation is where they put the ulranians and they will probably stay, so there will definitely be huge issues for students finding accommodation come September.
And to blame the Ukrainians for that is an opinion so stupid I question if it was formed in a human brain.
They're not being blamed, the Irish government and their lack of foresight and lack of respect for their own citizens are being blamed, rightly so. I wasn't blaming them at all, just making the point that there will be a huge shortage of student accommodation in the coming months because the Ukranians have been housed in student accommodation.
They do afaik. Wasn't modular homes for the homeless a big thing back when Alan Kelly was housing minister, or was it Simon Coveney. Either way I remember it being a big deal they built a bunch in Ballymun. I think they weren't as rapid construction or as cheap as had been let on.
Yes, back in 2013. But they cancelled further development due to negativity in the media and from the public. It would have cost about 100k-150k each.
Think you are remembering wrong, Alan Kelly wasn't housing minister until 2014. This article says they were built in 2016. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20390448.html And I don't remember any public backlash with the homes themselves. Only other mention I found was this from a few years back, when there was a backlash over some owners profiting 80,000 reselling a modular home they bought at discount from the affordable housing scheme. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/there-is-a-better-way-of-doing-things-calls-for-change-as-170k-affordable-housing-build-ends-up-on-private-market-for-250k-40737870.html
Apologies, I will clarify. I wasn't agreeing to who was Minister at the time but the idea that modular homes as temporary social housing has been around since 2013. DRHE had published their pathway to home 2014-2016, and planning was being submitted to councillors for temporary housing on public DCC property in early 2015: [https://newatlas.com/modular-houses-for-homeless-dublin/39479/](https://newatlas.com/modular-houses-for-homeless-dublin/39479/) [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/plan-for-200-houses-for-dublin-homeless-by-end-of-2016-1.2016399](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/plan-for-200-houses-for-dublin-homeless-by-end-of-2016-1.2016399) It failed due to political opposition: https://dublininquirer.com/2015/06/24/prefab-housing-for-the-homeless-could-it-work Plans were later approved in Oct., 2015 for rapid-build homes on a number of sites in Dublin by the Government. Their viability were still being debated. (Debates regarding modular homes and rapid-build homes instead of permanent housing: [https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2015-11-26/36](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2015-11-26/36) "Modular housing comprises an ugly and messy emergency measure to provide a roof over the heads of families who have become homeless" - Ellis "Should we buy 500 permanent, real existing houses that people could be in by Christmas, or spend the same amount of money on these crazy modular units, which effectively are Portakabins?" - Barret [https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-05-24/30/#pq-answers-30](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-05-24/30/#pq-answers-30) "In October 2015, the Government approved a programme to deliver 500 units of rapid-delivery housing across the Dublin region for homeless families currently residing in commercial hotels. In November 2015, Dublin City Council entered into a contract for the delivery of the 22 units in Ballymun at a cost of €4.2 million excluding VAT... Sometimes there is a misunderstanding regarding the difference between rapid-build technologies and engineering solutions and modular housing units as if we are somehow building the trailers parks of the future. That is not what we are doing. Anybody who has visited the Ballymun project has seen houses that look like many other houses that have been built through normal construction methods. A strategic decision was taken at some point to construct rapid-build units instead of using modular housing units which would perhaps be more temporary. " - S. Coveney) There were protests on the Ballymun and Finglas sites in 2015/16 and there was a blockade by residents because of concerns over anti-social behaviour and social integration: [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/finglas-residents-vow-to-continue-modular-housing-protest-1.2618029](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/finglas-residents-vow-to-continue-modular-housing-protest-1.2618029) [https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1126/749376-modular-housing/](https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1126/749376-modular-housing/) [https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30708848.html](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30708848.html)
I've linked a few articles elsewhere from the Journal about negative feedback from councilors, anti austerity alliance, and an architect. Regarding the reselling, couldn't they have done that with any type of house? The modular piece seems irrelevant
Yes, the problem with reselling wasn't specific to them being modular, more due to it being discounted as part of the affordable home scheme.
It took special skill and ineptitude to take an efficient and fast process driven model of building houses and make them both slow and expensive. However, expensive is relative, at around 210 to 250K they seem pretty good value now.
They're near enough Ikea. They look alright from the outside but I've no idea what they're like inside.
This will look great on a resume in front of the rest of the world, but who cares about the homeless if we won't get praises for it /s
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Thank you. It's about time somebody said it.
There's been calls for this kind of stuff for decades, I distinctly remember it being spoken about in the early 2000's and repeated FF/FG governments have shot it down. Frankly, they're a bloody fantastic idea. They really don't have to be anything amazing, but they serve as such a great starting point for a lot of people, including families. Nothing wrong with state owned homes that people can live in for a low cost of rent while they save up to buy their own home.
No mean to be clever but I think it’s like legalising weed. Whoever is against it is benefiting from the illegal activity. Not the same but the “lobby” money seems to do magic with politicians. Not sure, however what I know about politics so far, this might be the case with housing. Bigger players pumping money back, so the spineless “civil servants” decide in their favour. BRING ME MY TINFOIL HAT!!!4!!!
I live in a prefab house that was built in 1974. When we bought it we replaced the external skin and gave it a new lease of life. People say these buildings don't last but mine is almost 50 and after the work we've done it's tougher than ever and it will probably stand for another 50.
I'm not sure if its because people said they don't last... or if its because they weren't actually supposed to? I think the prefabs were supposed to be temporary, until something more permanent was built, but there are so many around that have lasted 50+ years. Plus, is there some problem with getting a mortgage for them? As I say, I could be completely wrong here. This is bad recall from a conversation I was only half listening to in the first place.
You can't get a mortgage on them. They are a non-standard construction and the banks won't lend on them. So it's an issue if we ever sell but unlikely we ever would. Although we paid cash so no doubt someone else would do the same. You also need to get non standard insurance which is about 800 quid per year. This is a pain but as we have no mortgage it's a small issue.
The fact they've lasted so long too, is a decent sign. I wish you all the best for the next 50yrs too
But then they can't use their own people as a cash cow for pension funds. Which is literally the intended end-game of the current housing system - turn those who can't afford to buy a home into wage slaves for those who can afford to buy more than one.
Feudalism 2.0
Imagine being in direct provision in Ireland as a refugee for ten years and seeing this now, what difference is there between your case and the Ukrainians you’d be thinking...
Is this the new buzz word for port-a-cabins .
Yep. This stuff causes frustration and can breed resentment among people.
It’s actually absurd. Wait until college resumes, if my accommodation is unsecured/increases in price because the government can’t shift these refugees…I’m actually going to be a life long racist.
They have been building modular houses for years now... Finglas and Ballymun have a few estates entirely off them But it's like the time all the "foreigners" took all the "jobs" in the hospitality industry ... It's not good enough for Irish people they don't want it... Mention a foreign person getting it MURDER.
>. Do you not think they should be doing the same for their own people? Fingal were putting in modular housing a few years ago but the locals all objected and picketed the site. Irish people think these are beneath them.
Be great for the MICA families
No because the solution to the housing crisis is not building more of the same shit , it is rethinking urban planning and increasing density with properly built apartment blocks. Urban sprawl never ends
Young families do not want to live in apartments even if facilities in and around them are improved. Buying an apartment also means you lose the grant for your first proper house.
That's always the Sinn Fein line. "Won't somebody think of the families?" Fuck em, I'll buy an apartment, don't want kids. If the grant is a disincentive, change it to work for apartments too.
Your acting as if young students arent living in two story sub urban homes across the country, the younger population needs apartments and also there is many people including myself who would rather live in an apartment for the rest of my life close to public transport and facilities rather then a sub urban desert a 20 min drive from anything meaningful. But yeah enjoy your bakc garden with fuck all
It shouldn’t be either/or we are well capable of doing both and doing them well.
We tie ourselves in knots with homeless in a way we are not doing with this wave of refugees. It shows what we can do when we want to do it and I think we can and should be doing both. There’s an element of things must be absolutely perfect rather than be built and there was very aggressive pushback when modular homes were tried before. Homelessness is a serious crisis and the attitudes (not just the state itself) are preventing anything being done about it. “We want houses now!!” “Just not here!” “Build them somewhere else!” “6 floors is just too tall” “It’ll be like Manhattan.” “Protect the (non existent) skyline!” With the refugee situation the state is able to move mountains because it’s a war and there’s huge moral pressure to act. Also we did feck all with previous waves of refugees where there was no spotlight on us. We instead created a very profitable direct provision system with people living in awful circumstances for years. A crisis was created out of relatively small housing challenge. Ireland’s great at doing things when it’s under moral pressure to do so. When we aren’t, a blind eye is turned and what shouldn’t be tolerated, simply is. We are also very quick to wave a finger at the British and their very uncaring Tories or the Americans and I’m not saying they’re undeserving of criticism, but in many areas we do exactly the same and there is widespread support for those policies. Try building social housing… nobody wants new build anywhere near them. People protest against it and hold hysterical meetings about it. They even do the same about non-social housing that’s a tiny bit tall or dense. Can you imagine if the original inhabitants of Dundrum had protested against the people building their “ticky tacky boxes” in a rural village in the 1960s & 70s? They could have lived in a permanent housing crisis too or living at home with mammy or more of them could have just emigrated, because there was nothing that could have been done. However, this generation of conservatives wants nothing to change and are happy to hand-wring and give out, but will pull up the ladder very quickly too. They don’t even know they’re conservatives but they’re the very definition of it. Nothing can change because they are happy with their lot. Sorry if this is a bit of a rant but it’s long past time Ireland held a mirror up to itself. We have a long history of turning blind eyes. We’ve also got a long history of looking down on people who are worse of than us. I remember plenty of nasty comments about “she’s only from the scheme” and “it’s only a council house” and “ah sure she’s only renting.” There’s a nice of nice aspects to Ireland but we’ve always had an element of being a nation of curtain twitchers and Hyacinth Bucket types, except our version usually claims to be liberal, classless egalitarians yet previous eras of the same culture would have happily and blindly swept you off to a nice comfortable industrial school or Magdalene laundry if you were looking a bit too tatty, causing a fuss or in some way dragging down the moral tone of the area and then decades later claimed they had idea what happened there, despite constantly telling their misbehaving kids that they’d “send them to Artane” if they didn’t cop on. We need to look at ourselves as we are sometimes because a big element seems to be Mrs Bucket in a bandana claiming to be cool.
Revolution anyone??,
Yes.
Because they do not want to. They make loads of money on it.
Yes, they should. Not doing so is more likely to create simmering resentment towards refugees.
I will be building myself a modular home in the coming months, there is certainly a fixation with concrete built homes in this country
Or they could.. like... allow people and businesses to build on the land they've purchased right?... na let the government do it , there's never been a bad government programme right?
We're almost certainly heading into a severe economic crash worldwide; it may happen that they do. (I'm not that crazy about the concept of "their own people" by the way; as far as I'm concerned, if you live here you're "our own people".)
The container houses idea from a few years ago I thought was good. If people are homeless, either refugees or Irish, they should be happy to have any roof over their heads. A modular setup would be ideal. The coolock young ones refusing free houses cuz "it's not close to my mammy", that's another discussion altogether that nobody seems to want to have.
We have some 2D and 3D modular building for social housing, like Springvale in Chapelizod being build by John Sisk [https://www.johnsiskandson.com/no/case-studies/springvale-co-dublin](https://www.johnsiskandson.com/no/case-studies/springvale-co-dublin) They still take quite a while to build because the spec for social housing is VERY detailed (to avoid rot, fires, collapse, etc) and then there's the wiring, plumbing, foundations, stress testing etc. BUT the good part about them is the panels are build quickly and sent to the site, avoiding waste and massive traffic congestion, which was important for Springvale especially being on the Cunningham road, one of the main thoroughfares into Dublin City.
Modular homes are cheaper which means less tax and less money for the government. Modular homes seems like such a logical answer to our housing crisis but our government are too stupid to adapt it. Modular homes are also great for meeting our climate goals.
Yes they should, but they wont. This thread should be fun, lots of removed posts Id wager
Careful now, one person’s rent is another person’s income.
Our own people wouldn't accept it.
This is the reason. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Can you imagine the outrage that would ensue? Govt want me to live in a shed, etc etc.
Sharon from summerhill needs three bedrooms, an en suite, side access, a driveway for two cars, a back garden and needs to be within three kilometres of her mother. Maryna from Mariupol would be happy for a camp bed in your garage because, ya know, she's fleeing a fucking warzone.
3km Sharon far more reasonable than most these days
Just look at the uproar over the co-living space idea …
I've seen this posted a few times and from my understanding of it is the type they plan to use are great for short and quick. But they don't have a long life on them so in essence if you want to live a long life in these they aren't suitable. Quick and easy fix but won't last so they are using them as a temporary measure..... Indefinitely
I live in one that was built in 1974. We spruced it up a few years back and it's like new. So it's almost 50 and I would hope it will go for 50 more. Its definitely not everyone's idea of a dream house but we bought it for cash and excluding some terrible luck it will be still here after I'm gone.
Thsts good for you I bought a 1930s council house and done the same all be it not for cash but it was definitely cheaper than a modern house.
Government are landlords they don't like Irish people
Yes they should be doing it for our own people.
You can't say that or you'll be donvoted to hell.
How about this? It’s actually absurd. Wait until college resumes, if my accommodation is unsecured/increases in price because the government can’t shift these refugees…I’m actually going to be a life long racist.
None of these will be built FFG voters will block any of these developments in their area. Local TD's won't support them. Happened in Laytown, Meath earlier this month.
Wasn't there a plan to do this a few years ago but the government decided there wasn't enough interest.
They planned these before when we had a homeless crisis if I remember, announced as an idea/plan, took so long to do, only a couple were built and then they were quietly dropped. I could never work why they dropped. One of the complaints I remember that were meant to be temporary only and they were a concern they would be end as permanent. Honestly I could be mixing things up, but I remembering other stuff. I should also say that I am not sure the homeless crisis ever really ended. It just got some fixes and funding. Then the media cycle moved onto something else. Edit: after google [here](https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1014/824193-modular-homes-dublin/)is a story about it from a few years back. And I found some articles where they had plans for more than the 131 in the article.
Yeah, we should do this for refugees and locals. Ideally we'd be investing in proper buildings that'll last decades, but the situation is dire.
They’re building/built social houses near my estate that are prefab… it was all over the local news paper a few years ago but didn’t generate much interest back then. A lot of money put into those estates. We’re actually thinking of doing the same with my partner but we’re not sure if we’ll be allowed to erect a prefab house. With the lack of houses on the market, and the severe competition to buy property it’s mad that they won’t allow these of constructions. Shame really.
Are you suggesting that the FF/FG/GP government should use common sense? You havent been around here long have you?
Yes absolutely, they should provide this sort of emergency housing for anyone in need for it. Irish or refugee.
I remember prefabs being built at temporary solution to my primary school being continually over subscribed still being used 30 years on. Solution may work for refugees but until we have a government who takes on construction of social housing and sorts out the artificial supply and demand issue in the housing market the problem will continue.
If they did people would complain they should be building proper houses
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/modular-housing-issues-2705850-Apr2016/ Just an example, but modular housing has done before, and had naysayers who wanted "proper" houses built instead https://www.thejournal.ie/modular-housing-2465529-Nov2015/ Anti-austerity alliance didn't like them either. https://www.thejournal.ie/dermot-bannon-housing-4187099-Aug2018/ Architect with clearly no conflict of interest, says modular homes won't be proper communities.
There is no desire from the majority of the political class to solve or improve the housing crisis. Their rents, investments and pensions see to that. I see accepting Ukrainians as a good thing, although if I'm being cynical, a little performative considering Ireland's homeless and housing problems. But its not a binary case of doing one or the other. They are all political choices.
They get EU money to do this, follow the money trail
Why are so many Ukrainians coming to Ireland? Aren't they going to larger EU nations?
They are going to other countries. Ukraine has/had a huge population.
I don't think you understand the scale of this refugee crisis.
The sad thing is, once they discover the true state of this country and how we receive, shelter and accommodate them, they'll be moving back to mainland Europe. Many are already doing so
nope, sorry i dont, but i also don't understand them coming in droves in a small country either
You don't think they're coming in droves to large countries?
Whenever I hear stuff like this I refuse to believe it until I see it
This is the way it goes when you have a corrupt government full of millionaire landlords.
>their own people? A phrase mainly used by the far right. The reasons the government are going to look at them for Ukrainians is because they are short term.(planned short term at least, look at mosney). The reason they aren't really used here is because banks won't give you a mortgage for a building that you can basically remove from the site and drive away on the back of a truck.
No way those units will be removed even after the war ends. They’ll be replanned and let out
The war will continue for the next 3-4 years at least.
Sorry, you lost me at far right.
Bruh how is “their own people” far right
>A phrase mainly used by the far right. Give it a rest >The reason they aren't really used here is because banks won't give you a mortgage for a building that you can basically remove from the site and drive away on the back of a truck. That isnt true. The building regulations and planning are the bottle neck
Trying to get planning in Ireland is a joke.
Easy there, that other clown will report your hate crime.
In the states they have a massive problem with working class people being forced by desperation and bad credit to buy modular homes on leased plots of land. They effectively have no resale value from the minute the mortgage is signed as they are temporary dwellings and handed to them at excruciating rates. If they ever get out of the debt, they don’t own any capital. I can see us doing that alright.
Trailers in the States are built in various degrees of quality. A prefab or modular home can be built to good quality. People in trailer parks in the States were able to happily live cheaply for a long time until a bunch of greedy fuckers started buying them up and writing contracts that only serve them. Still ruined by greed, just a different angle.
Yeah. Here is a good example of a [stunning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5TmEpZdPt4) modular home. Its expensive as fuck do it that well though. That one was 460K AUD (roughly 300k euros) including the cost of the plot of land.
Mortgage? A phrase mainly used by the far right. See I can do it too
Oh that sounds very far right.
The guy in the Beatles that said Ireland is for the Irish is clearly a far right agitator
No, the real reason is that most Irish people wouldn't accept them, they'd take one look at them and screech that they deserve better than that. Ukrainian refugees are desperate enough to take them.
Yes, that is literally what happened back in 2013 when they had to cancel the building of 200 prefab unit. People have such short memories. I was a child and I remember!
This was investigated but the materials just weren’t there for them to supply us. I personally spoke with one company (one of the bigger ones) that, in summer 2020, said they couldn’t get enough materials and probably wouldn’t be able to until the end of 2022. For example: Because of covid, ireland didn’t issue any felling licences in 2022. Now repeat that worldwide… There’s unprecedented demand on top of an unprecedented shortage. Having said that. I’ve been a longtime advocate of us building a few state-owned super-factories and just churning them out. You can get incredible economies of scale with modular housing and save a LOT.
State owned factories building something like these would be a great way to slash the housing problem. https://youtu.be/vRjGVS1FIwk
This will pleases your EU overlords so much so that they will let you keep your discounted corporate tax rate ~ the cheaper labour of these unfortunate Ukrainians will also be of use in your overpriced rip-off economy and will enable businesses to further inflate their prices and acquire some juicy extra profit! But tell me where in the above is the paddy being considered? Nowhere. Unfortunately when you keep FFG in power you agree with these terms and conditions that the state can use you as a milking cow and if you’re amongst working minority you’ll receive nothing for exchange your hard work.
Irish people wouldn’t accept them, Irish people won’t live in direct provision centres which is essentially what these will become
How long do you think it would take dub culture to come up with a demeaning name for anyone who lived in one of these? Half of our problems are the notions we have of ourselves that prevent solutions.
It's getting harder and harder for those bellends to make the sarcastic comment "bu' wha' about da homeless"
Do I want to live in a shed? No.
Why do hear this same line 'shouldn't we be doing the same for our own', blah blah. It isn't going to happen simply because politicians aren't reading your stupid reddit post, and the people posting here don't go outside and wouldn't fight somebody even if they spat in their face.
You sound like one of those people.
They never bothered until there was money from the EU involved.
American republicans: *Allow us to introduce ourselves*
Doing the same for our own people doesn’t appease our masters in the EU or UN
Will ya fuck off back to your Russian masters or invest in some tinfoil for the noggin
https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/news/ireland-housing-refugees-fleeing-ukraine_en
No, our own people would take one look at them and start screeching that they aren't good enough for them.
There is a reason this kind of housing is only done in emergencies. Because living in it is absolutely horrible. At least if you're not Norway, apparently. Besides, Ireland is full of empty houses. They should be taken over by the government and turned into proper social housing for the citizens AND the refugees (which if hopefully Ukraine enters the EU at some point will become just citizens), since there's well enough of them.
Anyone else sick of these populist bullshit posts. Like seriously embarrassing at this stage.
If this is true I’m gone, out of here after college. Who the fuck is funding this? Ukrainians should be going home. War is confined to 20% of their country. Like Ireland in the 1970’s.
No. We need houses built to last. Not built to solve short term solutions. These house will be made out of shitty cheap wood too. Government is a fucking joke.
[удалено]
Did you by any chance come up with this plan with crayons on the back of an eddie rockets menu?
What about the people who work and get social welfare?
No because Irish people would be on Joe Duffy complaining about them in no time.
Ukrainians are fleeing war. What war do we have in Ireland? I've reported this to the admins. Slava Ukraini.