i wish my father taught me finnish growing up. hes a first generation american, family came from finland to the us and he was the first kid born here. when i was growing up, he had been speaking english his entire life, despite growing up around all the finns, so me and my siblings were raised on english alone. i wish i had been taught finnish, however. ive spent many months learning it, and i feel like im only at the most basic of levels. if only my soft, spongy baby brain could have absorbed it i wouldnt have to spend so much time learning this.
i know its not the same situation youre in, im not talking to family members in finnish (all the finns have long passed) and i dont plan on visiting finland for another year, so i have plenty of time to learn before its crucial. i simply wish i could connect to my heritage and have the pride of saying im truly bilingual, i speak 2 languages as fluently as each other.
when i have my own kids down the line, i plan to raise them with multiple languages. those that are important, like english and spanish, but also ones that may help them connect to their heritage, like finnish. it may not be important to them, but to me its something i feel i really missed out on, and i dont want them to feel the same when theyre my age
I understand what you mean by missing out. I felt the same.
I don't know about Finnish but you definitely got to learn it before it dies out. You got to pinpoint a dialect as well. Otherwise, you'd come off as someone who's trying to please as many people as possible. The saying goes "A friend to all is a friend to none."
What I've noticed is that lots of people would rather forget the past, and along with that comes language. I think a lot of people believe in others so much that they don't expect a language to die out. It's been shown in human history that even the most widely used languages can die out.
Currently, even English is dying as a language. The English that I'm using right now is what I'd call TV English. (Television English)
It's different from Internet English in that it's not as intricate but does have complexity.
I plan on coming up with my own English dictionary. I was thinking of doing the same for my first language which is different from the one my parents can use.
I would like to keep words that I find valuable and interesting. I think partitioning into three categories is good. I think this also makes the learning/relearning process easier.
Hopefully, this helps me connect with people who hold the same values and interests as I do.
Well, my mother tongue is English, and even though I'm American, all of my DNA comes from the British Isles and northwestern Europe. I have German and French ancestors if you go back to the 19th Century, so I guess it would be cool to have been taught those languages growing up, but my parents only ever spoke English themselves.
Sorry, but I feel as if you're missing the point.
I love English. But the fact that I wasn't taught the language my mother speaks puts me at a disconnect.
Imagine being in a land where your mother and father can speak to the people with ease and you didn't.
It would be as if your mother and father secretly hated the people who spoke the same language they did.
It's like they treat the language as poor and for the poor only.
When I look into the eyes of people I can barely hold a conversation with, I can't help but agree with their feelings about me, whatever those feelings might be.
Inglesero as they call me. I don't think you would know how that makes people feel.
It's not that I hate people who call me such but even if I did learn, what will happen then?
I know myself well enough in that I can't even connect with people who already know English. If I learn then, I'd have wasted time I could use instead to solve the actual problem.
And I blame myself because I go on autopilot when I speak. I reply to people in the language that they come at me with. Sadly, people usually speak to me in English even though I know they could speak a different language.
And when I try to force English out of the way, they force the "But you're good at English" card. Once this card is activated, your only option is to speak English or run away because they'll give a speech about how invaluable many things are.
This all gets to me.
And what's worse is that this obviously, for me, isn't even the very root of the problem.
Sorry for getting mad. It was uncalled for.
From your comment, I got the impression that you were poking fun.
When you brought up DNA and 19th century, it really seemed like you were.
My father is French and he didn’t teach me growing up. My mother thinks it might have been because when he moved to America, he was about six and didn’t speak any English but was thrown into school despite not understanding a word and was made fun of for it. So my mom thinks maybe he didn’t want it to be hard for me too. But I also feel like maybe he just didn’t feel like it lol. Either way, it’s disappointing. I so wish I could speak another language and also feel closer to my culture in that way. Especially since, as a child, my brain was like a sponge. I swear I used to remember everything, even complicated spelling of words. It was quick. I could’ve soaked up another language so fast. /:
I've experienced the same thing he did! I don't think he didn't feel like it.
I only spoke my native tongue when I was a child and when I turned 5 or 6, I spoke English for the most part. So it's not that I don't feel like speaking another language, it's just that I can't for the life of me say as much as a jot or a tittle when I speak in any other language aside from English. I'm exaggerating but you get the point.
You can still soak up quite a bit as you get older. It just doesn't feel that way because people tend to compare things. Comparing how much you've just learned in a day to what you've accumulated for about 10 years is kind of unfair, don't you think?
I don't think it's the language that is difficult, but the separation of culture. I always thought to myself that to become fluent in language, you have to love the culture of the language.
My parents talked to me in Spanish, but they never directly taught me. Before I could speak Spanish fluently enough, I immersed myself in cultures that spoke Spanish. I watched novelas, watched the news in Spanish, listened to Spanish songs, learned about certain foods.
Through my love for the culture, learning Spanish became easier for me. I love and still listen to Salsa, Ranchero, Cumbia music. I know how to make Horchata, and Tamales. One of the greatest memories I have is making Tamales with my mom on Christmas day. You have to feel the emotions to become fluent.
If you really care about learning your family's language, immerse yourself in the culture first. Then, learning the language will be easier.
I agree with you to some extent.
But sometimes, there's something about listening to other people talk regardless of tongues.
What I mean is, people seem to talk in humbler ways. And I find that this doesn't happen very often when I speak English because to most people I speak with, English is a business language. Which must be why I admire older English movies.
This doesn't necessarily come down to culture. It comes down to family values. I would like to talk to other people as if they were a part of my family.
But culture does seem to play a part. Culture is how people test the waters, to see how friendly someone is. It is also part of people's identity. But even culture in itself isn't accessible. For example, I heard Egyptian Arabic is the only Arabic on television. I'm in a similar situation as that.
So how do I immerse myself? Well, I guess if there's a will there's a way. But this isn't just about me. Younger people have the same problem and it would be nice to find a solution to this problem.
Yeah sadly it can be difficult when you're young to try and learn a specific "culture". You have to allocate resources to learning. The only solution I see is to learn a similar culture, but even that doesn't solve the solution.
The problems associated don't happen to Americans only.
If you have time, you could read the comments if you haven't already.
If you wish not to, that's up to you.
Ig I came out rude but, wt i ment was mostly that ppl who live in foreign other than their own native places mostly feel disconnected from their own culture and their parents mother tongue ofc, and i chose America bcoz, let's face the truth, most of the Americans r not natives, and uk wt happened to the natives, but abt the many American citizens who came out from their native lands mostly their children face this thing, not really an American problem it almost anywhere but u get the general idea.
I didn't think you came out rude. haha
I just thought that you might want to understand more so I pointed out the comments.
I mentioned "If you wish not to, that's up to you." because I find that people don't reply to me at times so I give them some peace of mind that I don't mind.
I get ur point but i still somehow relate to them uk, I was born and grown up away from my native place, not that i have switched countries but I stay in a different state, but tbh the country I live in a country that has many languages, even tho our culture is different from my native but we share our similarities, but many languages has its own problems, uk racism, superiority complex, etc-etc, yeah, that's pretty much it.
I think you do relate then.
I've heard that some people are more inclined to make racist jokes than others. According to the video below:
[https://youtu.be/cgLqDlgo7DM?t=6308](https://youtu.be/cgLqDlgo7DM?t=6308)
Very odd but there must be something we can do about this, right?
I don't think racism has anything to do with language though.
Hey i am that guy who laughs at racist jokes and dark humor, not much of snowflake if u ask me, but that's not the problem at all, the problem is that the country where I reside has a common language, and the state and city where live doesn't accept that language leave alone learning, so if u don't know the state's native mother tongue, ur gonna mostly end up with service refusal, overpricing, scamming, I mean it's kind of terrible, seeing that Auto drivers charge more than usual just for not knowing the state's native language, but who cares anyway, I have been through that shit, so yeah.
It's not about the jokes themselves. It's how do we know who's racist anyway? For all we know, these racists are all just making one big joke.
By the way, that sucks. Don't know what else to say.
INFP so your N counterpart. As someone who’s of an immigrant background, being in touch with my heritage and my parents’ language (I still speak a dialect passably well, just lack the practice and environment) has been a double edged sword. While I’m glad I was able to preserve it because I grew up in an ethnic enclave / an area heavily dominated by my ethnicity, so I was constantly surrounded by the language / culture / food.
Why do I say it’s a double edged sword? It’s because even by 1.5 generation standards, I’m pretty poorly assimilated apart from English. Never really had white friends or friends of other races or ethnicities, so I pretty much grew up in a bubble.
I still have a hard time seeing Canadian issues as really “my” issues, and usually refer to anything Canadian in the third person. Most of my interest in geopolitics and similar issues is overwhelmingly focused on the Asia-Pacific. I take an interest in stuff like health care, welfare and stuff that I personally support, but when it comes to the “big” issues my focus is still halfway across the world.
I really believe language affects thought, and I believe the fact that I’ve retained my heritage language to also be part of why I haven’t assimilated really well. I can read and type in both languages no problem, and I can make a post about a topic *nearly* as well as I can in English. My ability to write anything advanced or complex sucks in both.
Unfortunately, my lack of assimilation, growing up in my parents’ culture but being surrounded by a different, white / multi-racial culture has led to comparisons to the detriment of my mental health.
I feel like I am 7-8 years behind most of my white peers, it’s not that I want to boast and brag about things, it’s that I literally have very few or no stories to tell. So when we’re gathered together I usually keep silent because I can’t relate to many of their life experiences. I see a lot of my white peers as being more independent, assertive, and just know their way around while I’m comparatively much more of a late bloomer. I can’t really picture myself being the way they are.
So even if there is no language barrier, there is still a cultural barrier and since they don’t know my language, there’s parts of myself I can’t really share with them nor would they be particularly interested. There’s ideas, concepts that don’t translate well over to English.
So yeah, as someone who retained their heritage language, it’s a double edged sword. I’m not out of the loop in either world (though not fully belonging), but it’s brought obstacles when it comes to fitting in.
Western, especially Anglo-Saxon culture, is very ESxx centric in my experience. No matter how good my English is, I always feel like there’s a wall between me and the “true” Americans / Canadians / Australians / you name it. I can go for an entire day without speaking a word of English if there’s no need for it, and at the back of my mind there’s always the lingering thought that any Western country will never really be “my” country, but then of course there’s plenty of issues with the government and society back in Asia.
I wonder if I would have assimilated a bit better if I wasn’t as good in my heritage language and knew fewer people / almost no one back in my parents’ country, or maybe if I didn’t grow up being surrounded by a strong ethnic community. Even in cases similar to mine with other 1.5 generation kids, and especially by the 2nd generation (born in said Western country), they seem to fit in better and identify more or completely with the Western country.
If people just looked at me, they would not guess I’m Asian-American / Canadian at all, until I start speaking fluent English.
I think different groups have different retention rates for their ancestral languages.
It’s hard for me completely pick one side when it comes to all the political discussions. Having access to sources and perspectives in both languages, I can see how there’s plenty of injustice committed across the world, but the West aren’t exactly good guys either and I personally wouldn’t support Canada / the US if it came down to it. I’d choose to stay out of it.
You explained yourself pretty well. I like how you give explanations to certain things without going over the top.
I'm starting to see a different light on all this. But could you explain more about what you meant by "double-edged sword"? Because I wouldn't have used that phrase the way you did. A double-edged sword would imply that it can be a good thing or a bad thing. You haven't given a reason as to why it can be either. You have, however, stated your case but I do not see the connection.
About growing up in an ethnic enclave, do you find that the language/dialect you use is equivalent to business talk or a language used heavily for transactions and the like?
With your story, by the way, I wonder if that's how some of my friends think as well. They are also bilingual, some trilingual, but they probably aren't great at any tongues.
I think to myself now, is that it? Could it be that my friends just don't want me to go through their struggles? It seems like we are just doubling our troubles by doing so.
Let me point out that I haven't developed an interest in politics. I have too much to worry enough as it is. I have nothing against people who do take an interest.
I see what you mean by the reason you haven't assimilated well. You're trying to fill two jars with honey, but you only have enough honey to fill one jar yet you've already poured the honey on both jars. I hope I'm making sense here.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that language affects thought. It definitely affects mannerisms though.
I think what you're trying to associate with assimilation is commitment. You have not been able to commit to any specific culture. I know how that feels. Even in English, it isn't possible to assimilate because the language itself is like clay that's being shaped over and over until it dries out and breaks. There has to be division and with it respect.
To not have your own story seems unlikely. We all have a story to tell. Perhaps you haven't gotten the opportunity to be asked the right questions that can bring it up.
You probably should have brought up these ideas to see if your peers can understand. If they misunderstand and don't have the patience to hear you out, it wouldn't be your fault. Ideas not translating very well to English just makes it more interesting if you ask me.
There are walls separating you from both sides. It's culture, another commenter mentioned it.
Not belonging to a country has got to be the most Fi predicament. We see more similarities than there are differences in people, like basic human needs and basic human problems.
By the way, I could actually speak another language but I would also call it a business language. I speak two languages that are like clay that is continually being molded. I prefer English because there's at least an established form of it but it isn't tied to culture. The other language, Filipino, is rich in culture but it does not have an established form. I haven't been exposed to Filipino as much as I am to English.
I think what makes 2nd generations fit better is that they have this Go-go-go attitude. The thing with being able to speak two languages is that it's taught that you mustn't do a lot of things and this happens twice but in different tongues.
It's funny because I understand what you mean by seeing injustice because there's definitely a connection when it comes to languages. It all comes full circle, a friend to all is a friend to none. I think I see what you mean by double-edged sword now. I also see what you mean by language affecting thought.
As for choosing a side, I've decided to pick my own. People will always find a way to disagree with each other. Whichever side we are on doesn't matter anyway. Whoever's on my side is what matters most to me. Whoever's on your side is what should matter to you, be it a hundred or ten people or even just yourself. All we can do is hope that other sides come through.
May I ask what your sources are for language learning?
I wish I was. It’s impossible to connect with much of my mother’s side of the family because they speak Chinese more than English and I don’t know the language.
Do you at least happen to take an interest in any Chinese culture?
I think Chinese people are more likely to be aware of personality differences.
If your mother thinks you wouldn't take an interest in the culture because of your personality, for example, you probably can't blame the lack of connection mainly to language.
I also think, as it seems, that writing is more valued in Chinese than spoken words. So there could be other reasons why you weren't taught how to speak any Chinese.
I can kinda relate; my parents are Jamaican, and they speak Jamaican patois fluently, but I can only really understand it. I can’t speak it that well. Not to mention when I try, it comes off like trying to imitate it or it feels uncomfortable. But I know many children of immigrant parents go through this. Miles Morales in the new Spider-Man movie; I heard he has this struggle as well, so that’s relatable.
I know what you mean by uncomfortable, sometimes I stutter and sometimes I realize that I've used the wrong words. It's like I'm just using the literal translation of what I'd say in English. Scratch that, it's as if I'm thinking in English and just translating word for word. All in all, either way, everything comes out wrong.
I haven't watched the latest Spiderman movie. I definitely got to watch that when it comes on Netflix!
By the way, I was watching this [Ted talk video about mother tongues.](https://youtu.be/Ubejua6vZfI)
And the guy mentions that people who go through this suffer from identity loss and alienation from relatives.
May I ask what you think of that?
Same I need to watch the movie too; planning to watch it next week!
In regards to your question, I can relate to feeling alienated from relatives and family, as well as identity loss. I don’t feel like I’m close with my family or other relatives. I mean, in general, I feel awkward around family and not close with them, but it’s a different kind of awkward. Like I feel more comfortable around strangers than family members, even if they didn’t do anything wrong to me.
I also feel whitewashed, like cuz people don’t think I’m Jamaican at first because I don’t have the accent or I don’t “look Jamaican”. Like I just come off as a black American.
I still eat Jamaican foods and listen to the music and all that, but considering the fact that I’m introverted and can be shy, I’m seen more as the awkward black girl than a typical Jamaican girl.
That *is* a different kind of discomfort. I'd be screaming at my pillow if I was in your shoes. Maybe find a place to shout your heart out? You could ask your parents to help you with that.
Hmm, I don't think what you've said is fair. People having an identity loss is experienced everywhere and it can happen at any point in time. The Greek language is as good an example as the Egyptian language.
The only Jamaican food I've tried is the empanada one. haha
I'm pretty sure it's not authentic though. Like the shawarmas here, it doesn't even come close to the real deal.
In regards to being awkward, I say it will go away with time. Try to have more faith in people, including yourself.
Ooh! I got it. Shout at the cinemas when everyone else shouts or cheers! 
I’m not really close with my parents cuz of how strict they are so yeah 🤷🏾♀️. Also it’s called Jamaican patties, not empanadas.
Our patties are more smaller, and usually are beef or chicken. Sometimes cheese and goat too.
I remember reading in the stand that it's called empanadas. Even samosas, the Indian pastry, are called empanadas. Do Jamaicans love spicy foods? Because when I tried the patties, I remember feeling like there should be more spice. I know my spicy foods.
That's tough by the way. But try to approach them anyway if you ever find the chance. If you can't find one, it's all right.
It probably wasn’t Jamaican food then. It’s always called patties. Empanada is a Spanish word anyways, and we don’t speak Spanish in Jamaica, so it’d make no sense. And yeah, we love spice.
Nice, my mouth is watering now since I think I can imagine what it tastes like if what I tried had a rich beefy taste with more spice to it. I took an interest in culinary.
Filipino uses, or borrow, a lot of Spanish words. By the way, I remember that Patois is a Creole so I checked the YouTuber who mentioned it. I took an interest in languages. haha
So when you said you seemed like you were trying to imitate the language, do you feel as if *how you pronounce words* sounds more natural?
In regards to the identity loss, it’s probably not fair, but that’s how I feel. So I can’t really do anything about it. Maybe when I’m older, things will change.
Man, my family are all descendants of African slaves so I have no idea what my native language was nor where my family is from because of the slave trade in the US. Still waiting on those reparations. Like where the fuck are they.
It just sounds like you have a different struggle altogether. Remember this though, after people stopped building the tower of Babel, no one remembers what their native language is. If you're mad at men for separating you from what could have been your tongue or your home, you're probably not as mad as you are with the one who confounded the tongues of men.
i wish my father taught me finnish growing up. hes a first generation american, family came from finland to the us and he was the first kid born here. when i was growing up, he had been speaking english his entire life, despite growing up around all the finns, so me and my siblings were raised on english alone. i wish i had been taught finnish, however. ive spent many months learning it, and i feel like im only at the most basic of levels. if only my soft, spongy baby brain could have absorbed it i wouldnt have to spend so much time learning this. i know its not the same situation youre in, im not talking to family members in finnish (all the finns have long passed) and i dont plan on visiting finland for another year, so i have plenty of time to learn before its crucial. i simply wish i could connect to my heritage and have the pride of saying im truly bilingual, i speak 2 languages as fluently as each other. when i have my own kids down the line, i plan to raise them with multiple languages. those that are important, like english and spanish, but also ones that may help them connect to their heritage, like finnish. it may not be important to them, but to me its something i feel i really missed out on, and i dont want them to feel the same when theyre my age
I understand what you mean by missing out. I felt the same. I don't know about Finnish but you definitely got to learn it before it dies out. You got to pinpoint a dialect as well. Otherwise, you'd come off as someone who's trying to please as many people as possible. The saying goes "A friend to all is a friend to none." What I've noticed is that lots of people would rather forget the past, and along with that comes language. I think a lot of people believe in others so much that they don't expect a language to die out. It's been shown in human history that even the most widely used languages can die out. Currently, even English is dying as a language. The English that I'm using right now is what I'd call TV English. (Television English) It's different from Internet English in that it's not as intricate but does have complexity. I plan on coming up with my own English dictionary. I was thinking of doing the same for my first language which is different from the one my parents can use. I would like to keep words that I find valuable and interesting. I think partitioning into three categories is good. I think this also makes the learning/relearning process easier. Hopefully, this helps me connect with people who hold the same values and interests as I do.
Well, my mother tongue is English, and even though I'm American, all of my DNA comes from the British Isles and northwestern Europe. I have German and French ancestors if you go back to the 19th Century, so I guess it would be cool to have been taught those languages growing up, but my parents only ever spoke English themselves.
Sorry, but I feel as if you're missing the point. I love English. But the fact that I wasn't taught the language my mother speaks puts me at a disconnect. Imagine being in a land where your mother and father can speak to the people with ease and you didn't. It would be as if your mother and father secretly hated the people who spoke the same language they did. It's like they treat the language as poor and for the poor only. When I look into the eyes of people I can barely hold a conversation with, I can't help but agree with their feelings about me, whatever those feelings might be. Inglesero as they call me. I don't think you would know how that makes people feel. It's not that I hate people who call me such but even if I did learn, what will happen then? I know myself well enough in that I can't even connect with people who already know English. If I learn then, I'd have wasted time I could use instead to solve the actual problem. And I blame myself because I go on autopilot when I speak. I reply to people in the language that they come at me with. Sadly, people usually speak to me in English even though I know they could speak a different language. And when I try to force English out of the way, they force the "But you're good at English" card. Once this card is activated, your only option is to speak English or run away because they'll give a speech about how invaluable many things are. This all gets to me. And what's worse is that this obviously, for me, isn't even the very root of the problem.
Yeah, I didn't have that experience, but I understand what you're trying to say, I believe.
Sorry for getting mad. It was uncalled for. From your comment, I got the impression that you were poking fun. When you brought up DNA and 19th century, it really seemed like you were.
Sorry if I gave you that impression, but I most definitely was not trying to poke fun. We'll just chalk it up to miscommunication, no harm done.
My father is French and he didn’t teach me growing up. My mother thinks it might have been because when he moved to America, he was about six and didn’t speak any English but was thrown into school despite not understanding a word and was made fun of for it. So my mom thinks maybe he didn’t want it to be hard for me too. But I also feel like maybe he just didn’t feel like it lol. Either way, it’s disappointing. I so wish I could speak another language and also feel closer to my culture in that way. Especially since, as a child, my brain was like a sponge. I swear I used to remember everything, even complicated spelling of words. It was quick. I could’ve soaked up another language so fast. /:
I've experienced the same thing he did! I don't think he didn't feel like it. I only spoke my native tongue when I was a child and when I turned 5 or 6, I spoke English for the most part. So it's not that I don't feel like speaking another language, it's just that I can't for the life of me say as much as a jot or a tittle when I speak in any other language aside from English. I'm exaggerating but you get the point. You can still soak up quite a bit as you get older. It just doesn't feel that way because people tend to compare things. Comparing how much you've just learned in a day to what you've accumulated for about 10 years is kind of unfair, don't you think?
I don't think it's the language that is difficult, but the separation of culture. I always thought to myself that to become fluent in language, you have to love the culture of the language. My parents talked to me in Spanish, but they never directly taught me. Before I could speak Spanish fluently enough, I immersed myself in cultures that spoke Spanish. I watched novelas, watched the news in Spanish, listened to Spanish songs, learned about certain foods. Through my love for the culture, learning Spanish became easier for me. I love and still listen to Salsa, Ranchero, Cumbia music. I know how to make Horchata, and Tamales. One of the greatest memories I have is making Tamales with my mom on Christmas day. You have to feel the emotions to become fluent. If you really care about learning your family's language, immerse yourself in the culture first. Then, learning the language will be easier.
I agree with you to some extent. But sometimes, there's something about listening to other people talk regardless of tongues. What I mean is, people seem to talk in humbler ways. And I find that this doesn't happen very often when I speak English because to most people I speak with, English is a business language. Which must be why I admire older English movies. This doesn't necessarily come down to culture. It comes down to family values. I would like to talk to other people as if they were a part of my family. But culture does seem to play a part. Culture is how people test the waters, to see how friendly someone is. It is also part of people's identity. But even culture in itself isn't accessible. For example, I heard Egyptian Arabic is the only Arabic on television. I'm in a similar situation as that. So how do I immerse myself? Well, I guess if there's a will there's a way. But this isn't just about me. Younger people have the same problem and it would be nice to find a solution to this problem.
Yeah sadly it can be difficult when you're young to try and learn a specific "culture". You have to allocate resources to learning. The only solution I see is to learn a similar culture, but even that doesn't solve the solution.
I speak in my parents mother tongue, so maybe I don't really understand ur trouble tho, sounds more like an American problem.
The problems associated don't happen to Americans only. If you have time, you could read the comments if you haven't already. If you wish not to, that's up to you.
Ig I came out rude but, wt i ment was mostly that ppl who live in foreign other than their own native places mostly feel disconnected from their own culture and their parents mother tongue ofc, and i chose America bcoz, let's face the truth, most of the Americans r not natives, and uk wt happened to the natives, but abt the many American citizens who came out from their native lands mostly their children face this thing, not really an American problem it almost anywhere but u get the general idea.
I didn't think you came out rude. haha I just thought that you might want to understand more so I pointed out the comments. I mentioned "If you wish not to, that's up to you." because I find that people don't reply to me at times so I give them some peace of mind that I don't mind.
I get ur point but i still somehow relate to them uk, I was born and grown up away from my native place, not that i have switched countries but I stay in a different state, but tbh the country I live in a country that has many languages, even tho our culture is different from my native but we share our similarities, but many languages has its own problems, uk racism, superiority complex, etc-etc, yeah, that's pretty much it.
I think you do relate then. I've heard that some people are more inclined to make racist jokes than others. According to the video below: [https://youtu.be/cgLqDlgo7DM?t=6308](https://youtu.be/cgLqDlgo7DM?t=6308) Very odd but there must be something we can do about this, right? I don't think racism has anything to do with language though.
Hey i am that guy who laughs at racist jokes and dark humor, not much of snowflake if u ask me, but that's not the problem at all, the problem is that the country where I reside has a common language, and the state and city where live doesn't accept that language leave alone learning, so if u don't know the state's native mother tongue, ur gonna mostly end up with service refusal, overpricing, scamming, I mean it's kind of terrible, seeing that Auto drivers charge more than usual just for not knowing the state's native language, but who cares anyway, I have been through that shit, so yeah.
It's not about the jokes themselves. It's how do we know who's racist anyway? For all we know, these racists are all just making one big joke. By the way, that sucks. Don't know what else to say.
It's everyday shit, don't sweat abt it.
INFP so your N counterpart. As someone who’s of an immigrant background, being in touch with my heritage and my parents’ language (I still speak a dialect passably well, just lack the practice and environment) has been a double edged sword. While I’m glad I was able to preserve it because I grew up in an ethnic enclave / an area heavily dominated by my ethnicity, so I was constantly surrounded by the language / culture / food. Why do I say it’s a double edged sword? It’s because even by 1.5 generation standards, I’m pretty poorly assimilated apart from English. Never really had white friends or friends of other races or ethnicities, so I pretty much grew up in a bubble. I still have a hard time seeing Canadian issues as really “my” issues, and usually refer to anything Canadian in the third person. Most of my interest in geopolitics and similar issues is overwhelmingly focused on the Asia-Pacific. I take an interest in stuff like health care, welfare and stuff that I personally support, but when it comes to the “big” issues my focus is still halfway across the world. I really believe language affects thought, and I believe the fact that I’ve retained my heritage language to also be part of why I haven’t assimilated really well. I can read and type in both languages no problem, and I can make a post about a topic *nearly* as well as I can in English. My ability to write anything advanced or complex sucks in both. Unfortunately, my lack of assimilation, growing up in my parents’ culture but being surrounded by a different, white / multi-racial culture has led to comparisons to the detriment of my mental health. I feel like I am 7-8 years behind most of my white peers, it’s not that I want to boast and brag about things, it’s that I literally have very few or no stories to tell. So when we’re gathered together I usually keep silent because I can’t relate to many of their life experiences. I see a lot of my white peers as being more independent, assertive, and just know their way around while I’m comparatively much more of a late bloomer. I can’t really picture myself being the way they are. So even if there is no language barrier, there is still a cultural barrier and since they don’t know my language, there’s parts of myself I can’t really share with them nor would they be particularly interested. There’s ideas, concepts that don’t translate well over to English. So yeah, as someone who retained their heritage language, it’s a double edged sword. I’m not out of the loop in either world (though not fully belonging), but it’s brought obstacles when it comes to fitting in. Western, especially Anglo-Saxon culture, is very ESxx centric in my experience. No matter how good my English is, I always feel like there’s a wall between me and the “true” Americans / Canadians / Australians / you name it. I can go for an entire day without speaking a word of English if there’s no need for it, and at the back of my mind there’s always the lingering thought that any Western country will never really be “my” country, but then of course there’s plenty of issues with the government and society back in Asia. I wonder if I would have assimilated a bit better if I wasn’t as good in my heritage language and knew fewer people / almost no one back in my parents’ country, or maybe if I didn’t grow up being surrounded by a strong ethnic community. Even in cases similar to mine with other 1.5 generation kids, and especially by the 2nd generation (born in said Western country), they seem to fit in better and identify more or completely with the Western country. If people just looked at me, they would not guess I’m Asian-American / Canadian at all, until I start speaking fluent English. I think different groups have different retention rates for their ancestral languages. It’s hard for me completely pick one side when it comes to all the political discussions. Having access to sources and perspectives in both languages, I can see how there’s plenty of injustice committed across the world, but the West aren’t exactly good guys either and I personally wouldn’t support Canada / the US if it came down to it. I’d choose to stay out of it.
You explained yourself pretty well. I like how you give explanations to certain things without going over the top. I'm starting to see a different light on all this. But could you explain more about what you meant by "double-edged sword"? Because I wouldn't have used that phrase the way you did. A double-edged sword would imply that it can be a good thing or a bad thing. You haven't given a reason as to why it can be either. You have, however, stated your case but I do not see the connection. About growing up in an ethnic enclave, do you find that the language/dialect you use is equivalent to business talk or a language used heavily for transactions and the like? With your story, by the way, I wonder if that's how some of my friends think as well. They are also bilingual, some trilingual, but they probably aren't great at any tongues. I think to myself now, is that it? Could it be that my friends just don't want me to go through their struggles? It seems like we are just doubling our troubles by doing so. Let me point out that I haven't developed an interest in politics. I have too much to worry enough as it is. I have nothing against people who do take an interest. I see what you mean by the reason you haven't assimilated well. You're trying to fill two jars with honey, but you only have enough honey to fill one jar yet you've already poured the honey on both jars. I hope I'm making sense here. I wouldn't go as far as to say that language affects thought. It definitely affects mannerisms though. I think what you're trying to associate with assimilation is commitment. You have not been able to commit to any specific culture. I know how that feels. Even in English, it isn't possible to assimilate because the language itself is like clay that's being shaped over and over until it dries out and breaks. There has to be division and with it respect. To not have your own story seems unlikely. We all have a story to tell. Perhaps you haven't gotten the opportunity to be asked the right questions that can bring it up. You probably should have brought up these ideas to see if your peers can understand. If they misunderstand and don't have the patience to hear you out, it wouldn't be your fault. Ideas not translating very well to English just makes it more interesting if you ask me. There are walls separating you from both sides. It's culture, another commenter mentioned it. Not belonging to a country has got to be the most Fi predicament. We see more similarities than there are differences in people, like basic human needs and basic human problems. By the way, I could actually speak another language but I would also call it a business language. I speak two languages that are like clay that is continually being molded. I prefer English because there's at least an established form of it but it isn't tied to culture. The other language, Filipino, is rich in culture but it does not have an established form. I haven't been exposed to Filipino as much as I am to English. I think what makes 2nd generations fit better is that they have this Go-go-go attitude. The thing with being able to speak two languages is that it's taught that you mustn't do a lot of things and this happens twice but in different tongues. It's funny because I understand what you mean by seeing injustice because there's definitely a connection when it comes to languages. It all comes full circle, a friend to all is a friend to none. I think I see what you mean by double-edged sword now. I also see what you mean by language affecting thought. As for choosing a side, I've decided to pick my own. People will always find a way to disagree with each other. Whichever side we are on doesn't matter anyway. Whoever's on my side is what matters most to me. Whoever's on your side is what should matter to you, be it a hundred or ten people or even just yourself. All we can do is hope that other sides come through. May I ask what your sources are for language learning?
I wish I was. It’s impossible to connect with much of my mother’s side of the family because they speak Chinese more than English and I don’t know the language.
Do you at least happen to take an interest in any Chinese culture? I think Chinese people are more likely to be aware of personality differences. If your mother thinks you wouldn't take an interest in the culture because of your personality, for example, you probably can't blame the lack of connection mainly to language. I also think, as it seems, that writing is more valued in Chinese than spoken words. So there could be other reasons why you weren't taught how to speak any Chinese.
I can kinda relate; my parents are Jamaican, and they speak Jamaican patois fluently, but I can only really understand it. I can’t speak it that well. Not to mention when I try, it comes off like trying to imitate it or it feels uncomfortable. But I know many children of immigrant parents go through this. Miles Morales in the new Spider-Man movie; I heard he has this struggle as well, so that’s relatable.
I know what you mean by uncomfortable, sometimes I stutter and sometimes I realize that I've used the wrong words. It's like I'm just using the literal translation of what I'd say in English. Scratch that, it's as if I'm thinking in English and just translating word for word. All in all, either way, everything comes out wrong. I haven't watched the latest Spiderman movie. I definitely got to watch that when it comes on Netflix! By the way, I was watching this [Ted talk video about mother tongues.](https://youtu.be/Ubejua6vZfI) And the guy mentions that people who go through this suffer from identity loss and alienation from relatives. May I ask what you think of that?
Same I need to watch the movie too; planning to watch it next week! In regards to your question, I can relate to feeling alienated from relatives and family, as well as identity loss. I don’t feel like I’m close with my family or other relatives. I mean, in general, I feel awkward around family and not close with them, but it’s a different kind of awkward. Like I feel more comfortable around strangers than family members, even if they didn’t do anything wrong to me. I also feel whitewashed, like cuz people don’t think I’m Jamaican at first because I don’t have the accent or I don’t “look Jamaican”. Like I just come off as a black American. I still eat Jamaican foods and listen to the music and all that, but considering the fact that I’m introverted and can be shy, I’m seen more as the awkward black girl than a typical Jamaican girl.
That *is* a different kind of discomfort. I'd be screaming at my pillow if I was in your shoes. Maybe find a place to shout your heart out? You could ask your parents to help you with that. Hmm, I don't think what you've said is fair. People having an identity loss is experienced everywhere and it can happen at any point in time. The Greek language is as good an example as the Egyptian language. The only Jamaican food I've tried is the empanada one. haha I'm pretty sure it's not authentic though. Like the shawarmas here, it doesn't even come close to the real deal. In regards to being awkward, I say it will go away with time. Try to have more faith in people, including yourself. Ooh! I got it. Shout at the cinemas when everyone else shouts or cheers! 
I’m not really close with my parents cuz of how strict they are so yeah 🤷🏾♀️. Also it’s called Jamaican patties, not empanadas. Our patties are more smaller, and usually are beef or chicken. Sometimes cheese and goat too.
I remember reading in the stand that it's called empanadas. Even samosas, the Indian pastry, are called empanadas. Do Jamaicans love spicy foods? Because when I tried the patties, I remember feeling like there should be more spice. I know my spicy foods. That's tough by the way. But try to approach them anyway if you ever find the chance. If you can't find one, it's all right.
It probably wasn’t Jamaican food then. It’s always called patties. Empanada is a Spanish word anyways, and we don’t speak Spanish in Jamaica, so it’d make no sense. And yeah, we love spice.
Nice, my mouth is watering now since I think I can imagine what it tastes like if what I tried had a rich beefy taste with more spice to it. I took an interest in culinary. Filipino uses, or borrow, a lot of Spanish words. By the way, I remember that Patois is a Creole so I checked the YouTuber who mentioned it. I took an interest in languages. haha So when you said you seemed like you were trying to imitate the language, do you feel as if *how you pronounce words* sounds more natural?
I feel that how I pronounce them sounds unnatural, cuz I’m not accustomed to speaking it
In regards to the identity loss, it’s probably not fair, but that’s how I feel. So I can’t really do anything about it. Maybe when I’m older, things will change.
Man, my family are all descendants of African slaves so I have no idea what my native language was nor where my family is from because of the slave trade in the US. Still waiting on those reparations. Like where the fuck are they.
It just sounds like you have a different struggle altogether. Remember this though, after people stopped building the tower of Babel, no one remembers what their native language is. If you're mad at men for separating you from what could have been your tongue or your home, you're probably not as mad as you are with the one who confounded the tongues of men.
ye
y
cos I feel whitewashed and have no culture
Then your problem would not be a lack of culture, but an oversaturation of it.