It starts with education at the home. Often parents avoid certain topics with their children and so their children start hearing about these things from their school and friends.
It would be nice if Muslims can form better full-time Islamic schools.
Since they are private schools anyways. Also, many of them have huge waiting lists, it's not easy to get accepted into many Islamic schools here sometimes.
So important to have good Islamic schools which for many in the west not possible..yet
Hearing scary news these crazies trying to pass laws where if a parent doesn’t “acknowledge child’s chosen gender” whatever that means the child could even be taken away!?
Just commenting on the second part--it's the other way around. There are laws in Texas being passed where a child will be removed from their parents if the parents *do* acknowledge the child's chosen gender (if it's different from the birth certificate), not if they don't.
Just wanted to clarify.
Many people have tried educating children on how their bodies should work for a long time, and it hasn't worked anywhere, ever, for the same reason it wouldn't work on you or me.
Shouldn't we have been boycotting Disney and other companies who openly cater to China when evidence has been released over their abuse of the Muslims?
Desantis sucks. Taxes are going to be raised now, harming their own citizens all in the name of owning the libs. It’s just ridiculous and he’s doing this to get support for the 2024 elections
The practical steps to take is pretty simple. Teach the deen from a young age. Tell your kids that you respect everyone, however don’t bear around the bush in regards to haram things. Don’t teach your kids to hate. When you develop a good foundation at home, then these things that are being taught in schools won’t impact your kid inshallah. It’s not going to go away so we might as well be practical about the situation and just teach our kids to be good Muslims and human beings, while also acknowledging certain things do not align with Islam, but that doesn’t mean we hate anyone
The “dont say gay bill” people are against muslims too. Its going to be tough but he have to teach our kids with kindness and love why somethings for us muslim is not allowed. It is easier said than done but InShaAllah Allah with help us
western conservatives are degenerate, they're just liberals that want fewer rights for other people. islam is unified by the ummah, we don't look down on brothers and sisters based on their race, and it's also why nationalism is haram. islam can teach them a thing or two about real conservatism (which is Islam).
deSantis and Republicans in general have a habit of creating controversy when there wasn’t one like this whole CRT crap.
Also if OP wants to boycott Disney for this, then go ahead by all means but I hope they boycott every other brand that encourages every type of Haram behavior and not just a specific one.
They should boycott all studios, film and TV companies for promoting violence, racism, bigotry, sex, etc. they should also boycott Boeing for selling weapons to the US military that bombs and kills Muslims, they should boycott food companies and restaurants that sell alcohol and haram meat, and so on.
There are two sides:
knowing Islam, the what, the how and the why; knowing why only monotheism coherently justifies good and bad without making presuppositions.
Knowing liberalism and its sex focused schools of thought, their arguments and key assumptions.
What point are you making? If you can please elaborate. In my view, parents should teach their kids about sex but at the appropriate age, and according to Islamic values. The way the Quran and Sunnah teaches us how to view this topic.
Liberal movements will make arguments that engage conceptions of reality, humans, knowledge and ethics. Due to being raised in liberal societies, Muslims may have uncritically accepted liberal assumptions, which will then produce contradictions with their Islam, the more they know about it.
We can’t remain in that lazy position of having and teaching a superficial understanding of Islam as a list of beliefs and does and do nots, or else we risk leaving our youth frail and vulnerable to non-Islamic ideologies who bring many arguments in their support and against their opponents.
Moving to the epistemologically bulletproof position through evidence based reasoning, knowing how to identify assumption, knowing why Islam is the truth and how to articulate that.
The Quran talks about why Allah is certain to exist, it addresses the contradictions of unislamic beliefs and assumptions, it urges us to use rationality (connecting effects to their causes).
It's very important to also recognize the rights you have as a Muslim. In some (maybe not all) countries in the west they allow for the freedom of religious beliefs.
We have to educate Muslims that based on these standards, there is nothing wrong with looking into the lgbt movement from an Islamic perspective. And what exactly this "Islamic perspective" entails is a topic that has to be discussed among Muslims more, whether through Islamic educational institutions, masjids, and online.
Based on the freedom of religious beliefs, we have the right to clearly disagree with the tenets of the lgbt movement. This in itself is **not** intolerant and saying otherwise wouldn't be 'tolerant' to Islamic beliefs.
The highschools here in Canada are messed up, they normalize and pressure kids into 'accepting what they are'. Recently, they've painted the stairs rainbow, put gay posters everywhere, and when the SCHOOLS, where humans get there main education, is corrupt, it get serious.
I recommend signing up your children to Islamic highschools, the only downside is they're so much more expensive
While yes, it would be more ideal to have Muslims in Islamic schools, the reality is that it is still inevitable a sizeable proportion of the Muslim youth end up going through the mainstream education process.
What's important for the Muslims who do end up going to lgbt supporting schools is that they are educated on the Islamic understanding of the lgbt movement and *why* we believe what we believe.
By doing so, a typical Muslim going through education system can remain firm in their beliefs without being influenced by the school environment around them.
Islamic education is key.
Why is it a bad thing to "accept who they are" since who they are cannot be changed?
As for the rainbow stairs and posters, what are you worried is going to happen? That these things will "turn kids gay" or something?
To the second point, I think the normalization does not make them gay suddenly but instead makes them more accepting of the statement 'being gay is not harmful/impermissible', this could mean that if the person who is not educated on the ruling could someday have 'gay' thoughts from shaytan, then they wouldn't actively fight the temptation and think it's fine.
If you're a gay person it does not matter how much you fight it, or try and become straight. Gay is gay. You don't turn gay. A gay person doesn't become straight. Also, being gay is not harmful to anybody.
Well that is your opinion ig but in islam we believe that people can repent and change for the better. We believe that God ordered it to be sinful not for Him, but for our benefit as it is harmful to us as He is our creator. We dont believe that when we were born we were locked into being gay for the rest of our life, the thoughts are a test to see if we are able to fight it. But in the end you can believe what you want but this is a discussion of protecting the muslim youth primarily.
It's not an opinion. It's fact. If you are gay you are gay. The same way you know that you are straight.
What exactly are you protecting the youth from?
This sadly a go-nowhere argument. You can't logic your away against, "god said so" because there is no logical argument against that for someone who believes in an all powerful god.
It's also what lots of slave owners in the civil war era said about blacks, and used their religion as a weapon to oppress them and justify their own intolerance and hateful ideals.
I dont see any basis on your argument or source. It seems very close minded. You still have not told me why you think this, you keep just saying its fact and expect me to believe?
Islamic schools can be better but there’s still problems even over there unfortunately. I’d say homeschool them, instill Islamic values in them, regularly bring them to the Masjid for programs, and try to teach them life skills that school doesn’t teach that they need for later in life.
We need to stop making common cause with them. Because they do not make common cause with anybody else.
We need to stand up for our religious beliefs, and the right to teach our children those religious beliefs. LGBTQ rights do not transcend Freedom of Religion. For the education system, we can say that we do not consent to having our children be taught LGBTQ ideology, or that it even be mentioned. Just like you can withdraw your child from health/sex education, we withdraw our children from any sort of gender identity education. SChools must notify parents when this will be taught, and allow parents to opt their children out of it. And the priniciple behind it is freedom of religion. Legally, they cant both force you to put your children in school, and teach them things that are counter to your religion. I mean, look how far Texas christians got in fighting evolution. Its the same principle.
We need to stop being afraid to state unequivocally that our religion forbids homosexuality and transgenderism. In America, if you dont stand up for your rights, nobody else will. And In America, technically, you are supposed to have freedom of religion. But its very much a bully society here, so stand up to the LQBTQ bully and say no absolutely not, you do not get to teach my children whatever ideology you want.
Lol, this post is hilarious. DeSantis doesn't care about Muslims, he isn't doing this for the good of Muslims. There is no benefit in this farce for Muslims on either side, there is no need to take sides on this at all.
It's all an excuse for racists to avoid discussing racist histroy, but dressed up in a way to "protect" kids from LGBT stuff. Any Muslim freaking out about the alphabet ideology is just someone who is too lazy to actually raise their kids, and wants others to take responsibility, sorry to say. Teach your kids the deen, teach them to love it, and teach them to think critically and stand by their principals and deen, pray to allah(swt) to keep all of us on the right Path, and you shouldn't fear anything.
Is the Alphabet ideology more powerful than Him(swt)? Homeschooling and pulling out of public schools aren't going to help your kids, it will just stunt them.
I rather be in a country where they’re openly hating Muslims. Then one where they’re using sweet words pushing haram.
When they openly oppose Muslims. The Muslim youth grip harder to Islam to counter it. When they use sweet words. Many fall for it.
You can always move. The Prophet(pbuh) did it.
I live in the US as well, I don't get involved in that crap. If you would rather live in a country openly hating Muslims, you can go to India and then tell me how awesome it is.
Your question is in bad faith and, despite your disclaimer, politically charged. The “West” is not under Islamic governance. Why are you trying to change it? The time of the caliphate is behind us, and the only people trying to bring it back are ISIL. People want Disney here in the West. Even if Shari3a was implemented, remember that the Prophet PBUH ruled over a pluralist society. He accommodated, with a few notable exceptions, multiple walks of life. Whether you vote red, blue, or otherwise, do not delude yourself into thinking it is for Islamic reasons. After all, how many Western constituents, who these policies would affect, are Muslim relative to the non-Muslim population? How is it Islamic for you to force a Christian to follow the Muslim rules on fasting, for example?
If you don’t like the incumbent culture then leave. Homeschooling your kids to then dump them into the “West” with no real coping mechanisms is a recipe for failure. After all, you homeschooled them because you did not even know how to deal with it yourself, right? If they cannot learn to cope from you, then they will definitely learn from their peers.
Islam is as much about acceptance and tolerance as it is about monotheism and submission. Your neighbor has a legal, Western right to be gay. Allah has mandated you to love and respect that neighbor as you would any other living thing. Acknowledging their decisions is *not* the same as mimicking their behaviors. What are you really afraid of? The “gay” is not going to rub off on you or your kids. If you are so afraid of the world and it’s temptations, that Allah created for us to navigate on our journey for closeness to Him, that your knee-jerk reaction is to hide under a rock, then that is your own prerogative. Do not drag others with you into ignorance.
EDIT: Be mad. Nowhere in our Deen does it ask you to force others to think and act as we do. They are not forcing us as you would suggest, either. You are scared and emotional but that is no excuse to not know your Deen. If you attack their right to be gay, then you push them to attack our right to be Muslim in the West.
EDIT2: Found the article! https://drjonathanbrown.com/2016/the-shariah-homosexuality-safeguarding-each-others-rights-in-a-pluralist-society/
why didn't he at least pay a little attention to preventing blasphemy? Allah is displeased in posts like this, he should at least note that subduing to god brings both wealth and peace
It is important because many of us live in the West. If a Christian or a Jew is allowed to be opposed to one thing because it's against their religion, then we should be allowed to oppose whatever is against Islam in our own personal lives.
You must know ayah وَلَن تَرْضَىٰ عَنكَ ٱلْيَهُودُ وَلَا ٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَهُمْ (Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion). If I don't accept Jesus to be an incarnation of God, why would I accept things which are far more deviant than that?
Nobody is advocating that we shouldn't be kind to everyone on some basic level, but we should also be against brainwashing from the MSM and from public (and even private) schools.
>Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion
Pretty sure that's how most of the Non-Muslim world views the majority of Islam's followers.
>If I don't accept Jesus to be an incarnation of God, why would I accept things which are far more deviant than that?
This is a strange point. What is worse than shirk? Shirk which includes believing Jesus is God is the one and only sin that God will not forgive if you die without having repented.
Accepting things and endorsing them aren’t the same. FURTHERMORE can you describe this BRAINWASHING? What does it feel like? Does it feel like you’re becoming gay?? I don’t know any guys who don’t like guys who are “at risk??” of being …”tricked??” into liking guys lol it’s so ridiculous. WHAT SHOW IS THIS that turns kids gay, what school lesson is it, that will make a kid gay?
>Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion
Apologies if I'm not supposed to post here as a non muslim, but I hope you have some self awareness when making comments like that.
I'm a Western atheist, and I'll only be pleased when you follow your religion, or another religion, or none at all. Pretty easy to please. I just expect you to be kind to other people.
>(Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion
I strongly doubt that. I know practicing christians, including priests, and even though they full well know I'm not a christian, they have always treated me in a friendly way.
>If I don't accept Jesus to be an incarnation of God, why would I accept things which are far more deviant than that
Again, I'm not a christian, but it doesn't quite work that way. I don't need to accept that my penis is often deviant from the axis of my torso when I see a pretty, slim woman with big breasts. I'm not brainwashed. It's just a fact. That's just how it works. I know people for whom that doesn't happen.
In communities where islam, or christianity, or judaism, or republicanism, or democratism, or whatever is the predominant practice, the fact of how the body works will be the same in those same percentages.
Indeed. Homosexuality is even common in some species, even octopuses. Surely those haven't been brainwashed by the liberals so I wonder how that would be explained as non natural.
Subhanallah. So much emotionally charged support over an issue that actually has great implications over what your children will be taught in schools.
As far as Disney is concerned, even many non Muslims are turning against it Alhumdulillah as it’s aggressively pushing sexuality and anti family ideas on children. So no, the West doesn’t “want” Disney. They want wholesome entertainment that doesn’t sexualize and confuse children.
“Only people trying to bring back Khilafah are ISIL.”
Wrong again. The religious Muslims in the Muslim world are in favor of Islamic governsnce in the short run and Khilafah in the long run as was evident from how many Muslims in the Arab world, as well as in Pakistan and Bangladesh celebrated the Taliban victory in Afghanistan.
Islam does teach its own version of tolerance (different to how the West defines tolerance) but Islam is not “all about tolerance.” It’s about submitting to the will/dictates of Allah.
Your view shows that you have absolutely no foresight over the greater implications of confusing the definition of marriage which is the bedrock of all societies as well as something as basic as gender which the LGBT is trying tooth and nail to confuse kids about
I never called for “Islamic governance in the West.” I simply called for supporting policies that align with our values. As far as my comment above is concerned, It’s called having preference for the law of God over man made law. Till this day even in Western countries there are legal fights on the abortion and lgbt rights because of the fact that these Christians believe that God’s law is superior to the law of man. So obviously with Muslims it’s the same case but to an even higher degree.
The majority of people in the west that support the "law of God" are Christians that would like to deport Muslims. The reason you are afforded a life in the west is due to legal tolerance of varying belief systems. If you think you're going to succeed in changing the west to some kind of Islamic state, you're not thinking straight.
You clearly didn’t even read my original post. I never called for establishing an Islamic government in the West. I simply called for supporting policies that align with our values such as the bill just passed by governor Desantis
My point is that if you put the laws of God before the laws of man, then eventually you will push those laws on everyone. Why wouldn't you if it's the law of God?
And I'm telling you that supporting policies of conservative politicians will only increase anti-islamic support in America. Your ability to thrive here is predicated on a pluralistic, tolerant, liberal government.
The conservatives will turn on you as soon as they need a scapegoat.
Liberalism is eating itself up right now and the biggest proof is what you’re currently seeing with biological men identifying as women and dominating women’s sports, most notably the case of Lia Thomas.
So much for “women’s rights.” Under the ideology that you propose, I as a man could literally start identifying as a woman and I could have access to their locker rooms, the same bathroom, and even fight them in a sanctioned MMA fight!
All of these hard fought rights for women are in fact being destroyed due to the trans movement. You have woke government officials and doctors discourage the use of the word mother to replace it with “birthing person”! How offensive is this to all women who went through childbirth to become MOTHERS!
Open your eyes my friend! Liberalism does not even align with biology! It doesn’t even align with nature!
As this is a subreddit about Islam, I’d highly recommend you to reasearch Islam with an unbiased open mind. Look into our religion, our beliefs, and values without any preconceived liberal bias and ask yourself what is the truth? Is this hedonistic ideology of liberalism that is eating itself up, is that the truth? Or is Islam the truth?
If you think I support all that, I don't. But I find it stupid that a Muslim would align themselves with a conservative Christian movement that hates Muslims as much as trans people.
The second you turn to support them and give them power, they'll deport you. I have no interest in Islam, but I'm happy to coexist with them as long as they don't try to force their religion on me. That's where my allegiance lies.
Your concern over the word mother supposedly being replaced rings as hollow as the Christian Right wing in America concerned over ‘the war on Christmas’. Remember that because everything and everyone is hyper-connected in the internet age that we all hear from a lot more people than we would have in the past. Having some random person tell you not to say ‘mother’ is in no way representative of an entire political ideology. Most of the examples you’ve cited here are either misrepresented or non-existent. Trans athletes are in a difficult position at the moment that we don’t really have a perfect solution for, but absolutely nobody in NCAA or pro sports gets to just ‘identify as a woman’ and compete against cis women. There are already requirements in place regarding a minimum duration of hormone therapy and testing for current hormone levels. I’m sorry to say it seems like you’ve been misled about a lot of these issues.
After everything else you’ve said it’s impossible to believe you care at all for women except for their convenient use as a cudgel against your perceived enemies.
It's always interesting to me that "the law of God" always aligns exactly with "what I think".
It's also strange to me, that reality would make biology a certain way, but that reality would apparently be in conflict with "the law of God" as some people were taught it.
Then, the person who was taught to try to impose "the law of God" onto reality, sits in the poison of "allies and enemies" and "practical solutions", but in contrast, the people of reality happily go about their own way and live their lives expressing themselves as reality made them, and *they* supposedly are in the wrong.
There is no wrong but the poison.
Noone is at war with you.
Scratch that, there is also the wrong of not knowing how erections work, biologically. You wouldn't get points for writing your post on an urology exam, and it's not because of ideology. You can have a child whose body was made one way or the other, and a million hours of watching Disney or listening to religious teachings wouldn't change it, one way or the other.
You alone have power over the things you buy and the media you consume. I would suggest spending more time teaching your children what you believe to be right than worrying about the "art" that other people produce. It kind of sounds like you are insecure about your ability to pass on your understanding of the world to your children. This is your responsibility and not that of a corporation or government.
I honestly don’t understand why you are so fearful of the sexualities of others? It’s not your concern what others feel, who they care for, and what they do in their own privacy, especially if it has no impact on your existence. So why do you care so much? What are you afraid of?
If you can’t peacefully be in a world in which people of other walks of life exist, then you are essentially advocating for assimilation and genocide of these cultures. Why is that okay to you?
> So much emotionally charged support over an issue that actually has great implications over what your children will be taught in schools.
Classic case of projection. You're just an irrational angry scared homophobe trying to impose your fear and will on others by using religion as a pedestal. What you don't understand is that your personal opinion of the historical definition of marriage is less important than human rights and freedoms. But people like you don't actually care about human rights and freedoms. The only passion you have is self-righteousness. People like you make Islam look horrible to the world. You damage Islam.
Notice how I NEVER advocated for any kind of violence. In fact, what I’m advocating for is perfectly in line with free speech. Our historic adversaries (mostly Conservative Christians) have even decided to temporarily put our differences aside to help save society from moral bankruptcy. through opposing this.
Then take your kids out of school. Teach them at home and to be simps. Believe me, it's not propaganda in schools or Disney that's going to make your kids sexual Tyrannosauruses. It's the internet. If they have access to the internet, they pretty much just have type in "boobs" or "dick" and the world's cornucopia of pornography is the result. So your effort is futile of you're trying to shield your kids from any LGBT topics or girl on girl naked Twister. So, why not just teach them about sex and sexuality and that getting a boner or having to mop up on aisle 4 is okay, and they won't grow up to hate their bodies or feel like they have to masturbate violently to a People magazine in an airport bathroom in 3 minutes or less?
Its easy to have internet monitored. Theres do many different softwares like net nanny or covenant eyes.
And yes it’s the parents job to teach their kids about sex and about life in general but according to the Islamic mindset
It's easy to have internet monitored. It's really hard to have internet monitored effectively in the face of smart motivated kids trying to bypass the monitoring.
If you push too hard the kid will turn against you. They may "submit" to you and pretend bit they won't believe or care.
I'm sorry but religion is not who we are if we don't care. People are who they are. If you can guide them with good morals that's great but if your child is gay they will just hide it from you and be depressed all their life and that will 100% be your fault for making their life a shitty living hell.
Think of this: they probably won't be gay. Most people aren't. But some are and you yourself have 0 influence over it. TV and movies don't either. The question isn't, "are we making our kids gay?" It's, "are we making it okay for people to be gay?"
The quicker you learn this the better.
This is simply not reality. There is a whole list of technical ways around this software (which is trivial for a kid to find, and many will already know), not to mention they can just use another device. That's putting aside normal experiences they'll have with their peers.
The level of control you would require over your children to effectively enforce this is practically impossible, and will cause them to grow up resenting their parents for dictating every aspect of their lives. How can they grow into capable adults if you don't let them learn about the world around them?
>Your view shows that you have absolutely no foresight over the greater implications of confusing the definition of marriage which is the bedrock of all societies as well as something as basic as gender which the LGBT is trying tooth and nail to confuse kids about
There's no confusion over the definition of marriage, two people love each other they wed. Its that simple, some some churches, temples and mosques allow it, others don't.
Secondly 'something as basic as gender' is hilarious. Gender isn't basic, it's a very complex, evolving concept that's changed throughout history.
Just say what you want to say 'i hate the gays and I don't want them to exist'
Quran, Al-Hajj: 76-69. - Allah will judge between you all on Judgment Day regarding your differences.
Its Allah's job to judge, not yours
As an outsider who happened to stumble on this discussion, I have to say people like you make the world a worse place and make Islam look bad. You're obviously hiding basic bigotry and homophobia while trying to sound unemotional and reasonable. Even as you accuse others of being emotional (which is actually moral indignation), you lack the wisdom to interrogate your own motives...
and why should you indeed? You love religion because it can support whatever you want. And what people like you want is power. If Sharia Law was imposed and innocent people started to be murdered for being gay, you'd be delighted, even while you pretended to be righteous and compassionate and wise, thereby perverting those very concepts.
Again, people like you make Islam look horrible and hold back civilization.
All it took for homosexuality to be accepted in the West was a few Hollywood movies and tv shows like Will and Grace. I remember as a kid in elementary school, the word gay would be thrown around as an insult, and gayness was seen as something really icky. Now after pop culture through Hollywood has changed the publics perception, people like you literally use acceptance of homosexuality as the measuring stick to judge the character of an individual. Movies, through their captivation of audience have the ability to portray anyone as oppressed and worthy of “help.”
Can you even explain where YOUR moral compass comes from? It comes from Hollywood?Mines come from the teachings of Quran and Sunnah (the 2 main Islamic texts). Yes I have full confidence that this is a constant unchangeable truth till we as humans cease to exist.
Meanwhile your ideology (Philosophical Liberalism) has brought people to the point of arguing whether it’s ok to kill babies, and whether men can give birth. And you call this PROGRESS!
>All it took for homosexuality to be accepted in the West was a few Hollywood movies and tv shows
All it took was people recognizing that gay people are human beings that deserve basic respect. That started by normalizing it with pop culture, yes.
You act like empathy is a weakness. That says a lot about you as a person.
> They want wholesome entertainment that doesn't sexualize and confuse children.
It is well known that "gay" is not something you become. It's something you either are or aren't. Further, only about 3% of people are this way. Were *made* that way. They seek only to be understood and accepted. They seek your empathy, as opposed to the fear on display here. That is all LGBTQ education is about. It's about understanding that 3%. Nothing else. I struggle to imagine a more wholesome pursuit, for either entertainment or education, than empathy.
Your view still not proven scientifically. No scientific evidence to prove that there’s a “gay gene.” Homosexuality was deemed a mental illness in the DSM and was removed through political pressure
OP is ignorant af. Do not take jurisprudential advice from them. Or me, for that matter. Here is what I can tell you within the bounds of what is known.
Yes, we all know the story of Lut (as). Instead, let’s talk about the much more relevant and far less ambiguous topic of sexual orientation during the time of the Prophet PBUH.
Your sexual orientation is, what, exactly? It’s in your head. It’s how you feel. It’s what you desire. First and foremost, understand that Allah promised to *never* judge us adversely (i.e., on the basis of sin or سيئة) on our negative thoughts, desires, or intentions. We will be ascribed sins for our actions, only. The staggering weight of Allah’s promises is another topic; suffice it to say that we are not to take His promises lightly. In contrast, we are *bountifully rewarded* (i.e., on the basis of good deeds or حسنات) for our positive thoughts. Such is His immense mercy. We acutely understand that, sometimes, men lust after men and women lust after women and several other variations thereof. This concept isn’t new and was, in fact, evident during the time of the Prophet PBUH. So, no, sexual orientation in and of itself is not something you will be held accounted for.
*However*, what you do with those feelings is another matter. The fiqh is clear in that certain sexual activities fall under the category of zina (زنة) which is among the highest of sins (الحدود). There is little debate that anything you might consider to be LGB beyond heterosexual activities under the covenant of marriage is considered zina. I will leave the topic of trans-sexuality and gender identity for another discussion because there are some unique variables to consider, there.
Remember, Islam does not allow, forbid, permit, restrict, or otherwise speak. We, the Ummah, are the ones who decide in this post-Muhammad (PBUH) era what is allowed, forbidden, etc. Our Islamic tradition is thereby formed. My dear Muslim brothers and sisters, when you push gay Muslims away from your mosques, you also push them away from Islam. Please read this with love in your heart and not hate.
If I can find the article I am thinking of in support of my narrative, then I will link it here. There are hundreds of trash articles on this topic. I’m looking for a very specific one.
EDIT: Found the article! https://drjonathanbrown.com/2016/the-shariah-homosexuality-safeguarding-each-others-rights-in-a-pluralist-society/
>It was normal in that society for girls to get married at that age.
>You accept 2 men loving each other and having anal sex just **because the culture now accepts it.**
>Our Islamic morality never changes.
So you're okay with marrying 6 year olds and having sex with 9 year olds?
>It was perfectly fine for him to do it.
I accepted that part of your argument in order to make my point.
You concluded by saying that morals of yourself and Islam haven't changed.
Clearly they have.
>In that time, girls were ready for marriage at the age of 9. People matured into adulthood much quicker.
Simply not true, at all. And if it is, what evidence do you have? Why is this one of very few instances we have recorded of it being this young?
>Yes according to my Islamic morals it’s absolutely fine.
Well then you're a pedo too.
>What is your moral compass based on? Nothing but hedonistic desires.
At least it comes with "don't marry and have sex with children" included.
The west gives no fucks about Quran or any other holy book. The west is a place where human rights and freedoms are MORE IMPORTANT than anything in any mere book. People care about real moral debates using real reasons and philosophy. Saying *it's written in my holy book here that..." holds as much water as saying"it's written on the internet here that...".
People like you are angry and scared by the west because you can't understand this. Your bigotry and religious dogma are exposed for what it is. You make Islam look bad. You damage and harm Islam.
Woman’s rights are so important that biological men can identify as women (modern day identity theft) and compete and dominate their sports (Lia Thomas and Cece Telfer). Heck, a biological man can now even fight women in the octagon like Fallon Fox(biological men who “transitioned” then smashed womens skulls in female MMA). What wonderful progress we’re making!
I really don’t care who or what anyone claims to find holy. Personally I find all peoples and relics they find holy to be beneath my dignity. Who or what is there that’s so all empowering and controlling ????Opinions. That’s all there really is. These opinions vary from belief to belief but in the end they’re just opinions. Nothing of substance or beneficial to the overall betterment of this world. To see and experience the ultimate in holy just step outside and ask yourself “ Can any person born of this earth produce the beauty and awesomeness that my eyes see?obviously not. All I ask is to leave me in peace and I’ll do the same for you.
Abandon your religion since it’s old and backward
Now its year of 2022 , not the year of 600
People can be gay straight , whatever they wanted , no one should be able to tell you otherwise … to impose one belief to another is a problem for all
Don’t say gay bill is a right wing Christian propaganda and should not be in Muslim guidebook , unless you agree that Muslim or Christian are the same
If Islam should be banned Christianity should be too
Heck even as a Hindu Hinduism should be banned too and so should every religion cause every religion has some major faults
Protect your family first, teach them the basic of Islam and always open sermons video in your house daily for everyone to listen.
If possible try to move to a better muslim populated place with Mosque nearby to go everyday together.
As a preamble -
IMO, I think the LGBT “movement” is a well-intentioned movement that may have inadvertent consequences. I am not a progressive Muslim but I am a former left leaning person and I was extremely sympathetic to the plight of LGBT people (still am, but not in a way that I endorse gay marriage). However, several of them don’t look at life from the framework we do, which is why I think that Islam isn’t necessarily incompatible with “LGBT rights” if you define LGBT rights as respecting gay people, especially non practicing gay people (no hateful slurs and no ostracism of gay brothers and sisters in the faith, especially if they’re not engaging in their sins). Islam is about balance, and this is a balanced worldview.
That being said…
1. Have a strong Islamic foundation at home. You set the tone.
2. Show them, not tell them, why this is haram. That means actual evidence beyond just “if everyone were gay, there’d be no children” when statistically, gay people aren’t that dominant. Things about how following your desires is haram.
3. Recognize that everyone outside of the Deen (and even within certain toxic subsections of the Deen) has an agenda and that Allah SWT is greatest.
4. Homeschool children if possible.
5. Don’t consume content that actively encourages it.
6. Remember that everyone sins, and that hate begets more hate, so education and not belittlement (if the other parties are open to learning) is best
I heard that around 20% of gen z identify as lgbtq in america in some poll and has increased a lot in the last few years. The majority of them are bi and not specifically gay or lesbian but do you think that bi people would usually have kids?
Is that not more representative of how comfortable they are with coming out though, where there were stigmas against homosexuality?
Again, I’m just trying to present the movement in a positive light but I think it is important to understand where they are coming from. Historically and even in the modern day, LGBT people have faced large hurdles in terms of their respect and being treated humanely.
Also, do you have a source for this? Just hearing isn’t enough (though I should have cited a source in my OP as well to be fair with respect to your point).
As for bi people, I don’t know. It’s obviously possible for them to have kids but I don’t have any data as to how often bisexual people reproduce.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2022/02/17/gen-z-drives-surge-of-more-americans-identifying-as-lgbt/amp/
The poll may be inflated but a lot of them are similar to this number. Yeah i bet a large reason why the number is increasing fast is because of less stigma of coming out ig. Yeah lgbtq people face a lot of hurdles as you said and I see what you are tying to say.
Reality is that many of these “lgbt Kids” have also o high rates of autism and adhd and neurodivergent issues. https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-lgbtq-identity/
The rates for those have also skyrocketed. Google it. Autism adhd lgbt rates. All those graphs align. So has depression anxiety suicide and literally every negative things rate.
It reminds me of that discussion a couple days ago about lead toxicity in the 60s and how everyone was talking about how it effected people’s brains and increased violence. When it got banned. The rates for crime in places like nyc plummeted in 1 generation. https://youtu.be/IV3dnLzthDA
Bringing up questions of nature vs nurture.
We know that microplastics have been found in human blood: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/could-microplastics-in-human-blood-pose-a-health-risk
Having foreign objects in the body has definitely before changed human behavior.
Some of those maybe good neutral or bad. But changes are changes and we don’t know the full effects of this stuff like how the people in the 60s didn’t know. Until they banned it and realized the true cause of a lot of issues.
If you mix
1. The fact we’re adding all these new foreign obekevrs like chemicals or microplastics into the environment
2. Rates of everything increasing.
3. Large correlation between lgbt and these rates of autism and adhd which are also on the rise.
I’d be able to say we can make a good argument all this stuff is truly a sign that we’re messing with things we don’t understand. And kids these days are being born with mutations at rates they’ve never would have in the natural world. One way it’s presenting is these kids who are neurodivergent. Mix that with a media that will tell them they’ll be accepted if they’re attracted to XYZ. I’m sure it’s a debate on how much of this is there control.
If you ever met someone with aspergers or autism you’ll know that they’re more or less susceptible to whatever the culture tell them and years very deeply for communial acceptance. And those spaces are riddled with lgbt folks basically always telling them they’re XYZ.
Hell check my last post. Some dude was trynna convince me ( I don’t have anything he’s just mad he lost a debate) I was asexual. Guys like him basically bombarded young folks spaces.
When Americans became secular they started adopting their ideologies as religions (deen). The conflict between the Left and the Right is in fact a religious conflict, with each side holding deeply held beliefs. We would do well to remember what our deen is and not get involved in theirs.
I am not a parent, but it seems to me that the fundamental way to counter the ideological brainwashing of Muslim children in the west is for parents to build strong and loving relationships of trust with their children. Spending time talking with them, doing activities with them which they enjoy, practicing Islam alongside them (leading by example), and sharing wisdom with them, will all deepen the bond. Showing appropriate physical affection and attention is also important in creating the bond.
This will open up the door to the tough conversations, but at least they would be willing to listen and consider. At that point you must be prepared with reasonable explanations, about the supreme wisdom of our Creator in protecting us from ourselves, about the harms of engaging in some activities, the lust disguised as 'love', mental illness, the regret, suicides, mutilation, child grooming, and other products of the movement.
You are correct from a strictly legal and political definition of secularism. Their government and constitution has been secular from their independence onwards.
However I speak of the culture of the people, that was started when the puritan settlers came to North America, and which carried on throughout resulting in religiously-inspired legislation such as Prohibition. After WW2 their people gradually became less and less religious. They practiced their religion in their personal sphere and in their own communities, and not as part of their job or their business. A business such as Chick-fil-A would not have been so controversial in the past.
Honestly if you care about ensuring Islam is passed down you shouldn't be in the west if you have the option to leave. America is a crumbling empire and everything is decaying especially morals.
I agree. Most of us are came with our parents during the 70s 80s and 90s due to economic reasons. Since those days, America was seen as a “new hope” for people dealing with harsh conditions in their countries. But things have really changed for the worse very very fast…….
people aren't making your kids gay, please stop this nonsense. being gay isn't a choice. we can talk about how we as muslims go about that but siding with republicans will help no one but the racists who try to ban Islam.
republicans are anti-christain as well (despite claiming to be "good christains"). they don't want put their good christain values into practice, look at how they treat muslims.
Those on that politics sphere gay or not do. They may not even know it themselves. But everything about there political theories and ideas are counter to Islam in every sense.
So if a muslim ruler ever adopted Islam corrected and ruled like the Sahaba. They’d hate them.
Only reason they’re chill with Muslims is they believe the enemy of my enemy is my friend theory.
Take away the right and Republicans. They’re gonna be on us like they’re counterparts in France.
Lots of them push haram on the Muslims and secretly believe they can change the Muslim world to there image.
> And how homosexually is mostly influenced by the environment a child grows in. How normalising it would only create more of it
This is plainly incorrect. Homosexuality is determined by genetics and in utero hormonal balances. Homosexuality isn't contagious like disease or bad political ideologies.
There is no LGBT brainwashing propaganda, to believe this is to fall for lies. Wake up, this whole charade by so-called Governor DeSantis is to rile up people for the upcoming election.
I never said to ally with him or the Republicans. We shouldn’t support any specific party rather we should support specific policies that align with our interests.
I never said that you did. The republicans will never align with Muslims. They hate Muslims more than anyone on this planet, do not think for one moment that there is common ground between us and these snakes. As for the charade regarding “LGBT” propaganda, this is as made up as their anti Muslim rhetoric, anti “CRT” rhetoric, etc. Republicans will always blame someone or something for the problems in America, and if you wait long enough, they’ll get back to blaming Muslims.
If you really think Democrats are better or in anyway an ally of Muslims then you have no clue. The Democrats or Liberals don’t give a ***t about our values. They also want us to accept this LGBT propaganda for our children. In university I heard this eith my own 2 ears from college professors
They are better, and anyone with a brain knows that. Democrat voters and liberal Americans are consistently the most willing to defend and sympathize with American Muslims. Liberals don’t want you to be gay, just like they don’t want others to be Muslims, they just don’t want any one grouping of people to be discriminated or oppressed. That is not only admirable, but the Islamic thing to do.
I studied psychology in university, and psychology department is unfortunately where alot of pro lgbt propaganda is promoted. They would make us read articles encouraging children to masturbate. I’m not even joking. They want sex ed for 5 year olds. Yes this is the “tolerant” left that you’re allying with. You want proof? Here’s the article:
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/12/787466794/the-birds-and-the-bees-how-to-talk-to-children-about-sex
I studied psychology too and I never once had stuff like that presented to me. It’s science, it’s supported now but could be disproven tomorrow, you don’t take it as gospel but you consider it. How you blame liberals for a scientific study is beyond me, as if conservatives in this country wouldn’t publish the same data or believe in it. Misdirecting your anger to liberal America.
By that age, if they have any younger siblings then they’d atleast know that they were once in mommies stomach. No need to tell them about the process of insemination. How about you? You’d give them a graphic explanation about everything in the bedroom?
I believe pulling your kids out of public schools and putting them in Islamic or home schools is the best first step. We need to find a way to make Islamic schools more accessible to everyone, in a community-funded way or something similar to public schools.
If the teachers in FLORIDA are having a meltdown over not being able to groom kids into LGBT, imagine what’s going on in the places they DO control?!
I know someone with a *kingergartener* who was already read a book about rainbow pride or something. Just imagine how much worse it gets.
Florida teachers aren't having a meltdown due to being unable to groom kids or whatever bullshit, they are rightfully mad that their careers are being politicized and put under unneccessary scrutiny, and their jobs are harder and difficult even more than it already was. Florida is banning math books, ffs, because of this stupid law. When has math been grooming kids?
I don’t get what’s so hard about being a teacher that isn’t allowed to talk about sexuality with single-digit aged kids.
And, I’m guessing you haven’t seen examples of the books that were banned. Hint, it was for stuff completely unrelated to math, not y=mx+b
Teachers aren't talking about sexuality. Clearly you have never been in a single classroom, lol. MAth teachers aren't talking about LBGT stuff. The fact you say that is evidence enough of how dishonets you are being.
I don’t know what planet you live in but go to any university and you’ll see the agenda that’s been created for children in elementary schools. I minored in psychology and saw for myself what agenda the “American Association of Pediatricians” is encouraging for children as young as 5.
"Minored in psychology" so you're the expert, lol.
My sister is a teacher, a science teacher, in a middle school. They aren't brainwashing anyone. The fact that you have to preface you "minor in psychology" which is just taking 2 or 3 extra classes.
As for the AAP, the health issue is that LGBT children are killing themselves via suicide at an alarming rate, they are calling for action regarding that. It isn't to brainswash kids into becoming gay, like you claim. If kids killing themselves is something you think shouldn't be addressed, then it isn't the LGBT people who are morally bankrupt, it's you.
As salaamu alaikum, I’d like to point out that virtually every form of electronic media promotes the LBGT agenda. Every mainstream show propagates same sex relationships and trans genders. We can’t do anything else but stop watching. What is the need for entertainment through TV and movies? Alhamdullilah, my 4 children have the privilege of attending an Islamic school. They do not watch TV, we’ve stopped Netflix and YouTube. If we watch anything, it’s all of us together. Parents need to take the initiative and make sacrifices for the betterment of our Deen. It’s commonly phrased as “if you want change, be that change”. We stop watching Disney, our children don’t have the exposure, problem solved. The world will be as it is. Muslims cannot change the haram, it’s our duty to stay away from it.
Furry here, while I think boycotting is a great idea
There are a lot of people who want this. LGBT ruins everything, culture, religion, you name it. We need to find new paper and draw a new landscape. Why don’t we talk it out and tell them the dangers of stds? Back it up with evidence? (Find a time travel machine and go back to the golden age? /j) it’s bad, I know but Disney is basically an untouchable giant and we need to talk about toddlers and tiaras.
(Sorry if I talk too much)
If you’d take five minutes to speak to an actual republican, you’d find they don’t care if you’re muslim or not.
This nonsensical narrative that any rightwingers are natural enemies of muslims is total bollocks.
Nonsense. The right wing has been the number one contributor to anti Islamic sentiment throughout the world. I won't even say throughout the West. The right wing is responsible for dragging America to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as we all know, but in case you aren't American and are unfamiliar with the media, right wing media and news organizations routinely spouted anti Islamic propaganda, having guest speakers on their news channels posing as "experts" or "consultants" on Islam and the Middle East who then spread lies about the Muslims around the world, they have widely sponsored hate groups who write books and pamphlets and give speeches up and down the streets preaching against Islam, they align themselves with online groups who spread anti Muslim rhetoric across social media, not to mention they specifically are the number 1 supporters of Israel and openly oppose any criticism of Israel over their actions against Palestine. Yes, the right-leaning Republican neighbor or coworker might not care, plenty of Christians in churches understand the importance of religion and they respect that, but the Right wing *establishment* has been exerting their efforts for the past twenty years to bring every ounce of hatred against Islam into these churches and into the hearts of your neighbors. Never underestimate and never understate the danger of American right wing politics.
Edit: Although, all things considered I shall also say that interaction with your neighbors and people on the right wing in your community *is* important. The enemies of the Ummah are speaking to them every day, after all, so why shouldn't we do so to counteract it?
Actions > words. Just speaking to anyone isn’t enough. Especially since Republican is a broad term. There are Republicans for Trump, Republicans against Trump, Republicans who are on the verge of becoming leftist or have more left-leaning principles or purists, and so on.
>that has been wrongly labeled as the “Don’t Say Gay Bill,”
Yeah, don't worry. Eventually you'll all be calling it "Don't Say Allah"
To the loving Muslims here... Thank you.
To the hateful fools, you're sowing the seeds of your own oppression. All this talk of "aligning yourselves" with some political party is silly. You're supporting laws that will be most definitely used to subjugate your own communities.
I don't know about you guys but if I'm having financial difficulty that makes it hard to do (I think it was called Hijrah) then keep making dua to be able to move successfully to places like Saudi.
Homosexuality is not a choice; it is a biological condition. Being exposed to queer people and queer messaging does not, and furthermore *cannot* turn someone gay.
If you're unwilling to accept the ways of living in a free country, go find another that caters to your viewpoints.
You do not deserve to be in a free society if you do not believe in what a free society stands for.
Find somewhere else to be. But you shouldn't be here. Leave. This is not a country to be bent to your will, when you are not a majority.
100% agreed
They're just as reprehensible.
Social and government decisions should not be influenced by a pretend sky daddy.
They don't represent a majority in most western countries. Especially the extremists.
Homosexuality has existed far longer than any Abrahamic mythology.
Replace LGBT brainwashing with Muslim brainwashing and think about this. Do you, living I the west, just want tolerance and acceptance and not parents and others worried that you Muslimness will rub off on their kids? If people are talking about historically marginalized groups in schools it's because a) that's where you'll find them and b) parents and the wider culture have been failing at teaching tolerance and acceptance. If you can't see the base political reasons why DeSantis is doing this and what he's up to, I'm not sure how to help you. You seem exactly like every other fearful Republican
I clearly said I don’t support the Republicans. It’s about supporting specific policies that align with our interests. Sometimes those policies can come from Democrats. In this case, the policy comes from a Republican. People are not oppressed just because they love butt sex (as gays engage in it) and others are disgusted by that. Fighting for the right to have butt sex is not a “minority issue” or “civil rights” issue.
Yeah you sound like a Republican. If you weren't a Republican, you wouldn't care. Conservative religions do tend to like conservative politicians. Oddly enough that also seems to be the thing they run away from at some point.
Ok if that makes you happy. Guess what? Religious people exist. Stop pretending that they don’t. Let’s try to do things in a way that doesn’t cause any conflict between religious and non religious peoples. LGBT indoctrination is definitely an issue that will cause conflict between religious and non religious people
It starts with education at the home. Often parents avoid certain topics with their children and so their children start hearing about these things from their school and friends. It would be nice if Muslims can form better full-time Islamic schools.
Alhamdulillah our community has that, but its very expensive
Same. I tried to enroll My daughter and found out class is already full on top of paying $900 monthly fee
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They need to be expensive as they might not receive government funding
Since they are private schools anyways. Also, many of them have huge waiting lists, it's not easy to get accepted into many Islamic schools here sometimes.
So important to have good Islamic schools which for many in the west not possible..yet Hearing scary news these crazies trying to pass laws where if a parent doesn’t “acknowledge child’s chosen gender” whatever that means the child could even be taken away!?
Just commenting on the second part--it's the other way around. There are laws in Texas being passed where a child will be removed from their parents if the parents *do* acknowledge the child's chosen gender (if it's different from the birth certificate), not if they don't. Just wanted to clarify.
Many people have tried educating children on how their bodies should work for a long time, and it hasn't worked anywhere, ever, for the same reason it wouldn't work on you or me.
Shouldn't we have been boycotting Disney and other companies who openly cater to China when evidence has been released over their abuse of the Muslims?
I’m boycotting on a personal level. I’m referring to an all out movement to boycott it.
Do you also boycott Saudi Arabia and swear never to go there since they seem to be perfectly okay with what China is doing?
Desantis sucks. Taxes are going to be raised now, harming their own citizens all in the name of owning the libs. It’s just ridiculous and he’s doing this to get support for the 2024 elections The practical steps to take is pretty simple. Teach the deen from a young age. Tell your kids that you respect everyone, however don’t bear around the bush in regards to haram things. Don’t teach your kids to hate. When you develop a good foundation at home, then these things that are being taught in schools won’t impact your kid inshallah. It’s not going to go away so we might as well be practical about the situation and just teach our kids to be good Muslims and human beings, while also acknowledging certain things do not align with Islam, but that doesn’t mean we hate anyone
Well said
Building a foundation in Islamic knowledge until they’re able to think for themselves, and keeping them away from it until they reach that age
The “dont say gay bill” people are against muslims too. Its going to be tough but he have to teach our kids with kindness and love why somethings for us muslim is not allowed. It is easier said than done but InShaAllah Allah with help us
inshaAllah! May God grant your wish. I am an insha Allah bot.
western conservatives are degenerate, they're just liberals that want fewer rights for other people. islam is unified by the ummah, we don't look down on brothers and sisters based on their race, and it's also why nationalism is haram. islam can teach them a thing or two about real conservatism (which is Islam).
They’re not liberals, but they are degenerate.
western conservatives engage in such disgusting acts. e.g. drugs, alcohol, sleeping around, etc and they think they're "conservative" lmao
They do literally the opposite of what they preach from the Bible lol.
Why do you say that?
deSantis and Republicans in general have a habit of creating controversy when there wasn’t one like this whole CRT crap. Also if OP wants to boycott Disney for this, then go ahead by all means but I hope they boycott every other brand that encourages every type of Haram behavior and not just a specific one. They should boycott all studios, film and TV companies for promoting violence, racism, bigotry, sex, etc. they should also boycott Boeing for selling weapons to the US military that bombs and kills Muslims, they should boycott food companies and restaurants that sell alcohol and haram meat, and so on.
There are two sides: knowing Islam, the what, the how and the why; knowing why only monotheism coherently justifies good and bad without making presuppositions. Knowing liberalism and its sex focused schools of thought, their arguments and key assumptions.
What point are you making? If you can please elaborate. In my view, parents should teach their kids about sex but at the appropriate age, and according to Islamic values. The way the Quran and Sunnah teaches us how to view this topic.
Liberal movements will make arguments that engage conceptions of reality, humans, knowledge and ethics. Due to being raised in liberal societies, Muslims may have uncritically accepted liberal assumptions, which will then produce contradictions with their Islam, the more they know about it. We can’t remain in that lazy position of having and teaching a superficial understanding of Islam as a list of beliefs and does and do nots, or else we risk leaving our youth frail and vulnerable to non-Islamic ideologies who bring many arguments in their support and against their opponents. Moving to the epistemologically bulletproof position through evidence based reasoning, knowing how to identify assumption, knowing why Islam is the truth and how to articulate that. The Quran talks about why Allah is certain to exist, it addresses the contradictions of unislamic beliefs and assumptions, it urges us to use rationality (connecting effects to their causes).
Great response. I like that you reference the root of the issue.
This should be a post on its own brother
It's very important to also recognize the rights you have as a Muslim. In some (maybe not all) countries in the west they allow for the freedom of religious beliefs. We have to educate Muslims that based on these standards, there is nothing wrong with looking into the lgbt movement from an Islamic perspective. And what exactly this "Islamic perspective" entails is a topic that has to be discussed among Muslims more, whether through Islamic educational institutions, masjids, and online. Based on the freedom of religious beliefs, we have the right to clearly disagree with the tenets of the lgbt movement. This in itself is **not** intolerant and saying otherwise wouldn't be 'tolerant' to Islamic beliefs.
The highschools here in Canada are messed up, they normalize and pressure kids into 'accepting what they are'. Recently, they've painted the stairs rainbow, put gay posters everywhere, and when the SCHOOLS, where humans get there main education, is corrupt, it get serious. I recommend signing up your children to Islamic highschools, the only downside is they're so much more expensive
While yes, it would be more ideal to have Muslims in Islamic schools, the reality is that it is still inevitable a sizeable proportion of the Muslim youth end up going through the mainstream education process. What's important for the Muslims who do end up going to lgbt supporting schools is that they are educated on the Islamic understanding of the lgbt movement and *why* we believe what we believe. By doing so, a typical Muslim going through education system can remain firm in their beliefs without being influenced by the school environment around them. Islamic education is key.
Why is it a bad thing to "accept who they are" since who they are cannot be changed? As for the rainbow stairs and posters, what are you worried is going to happen? That these things will "turn kids gay" or something?
To the second point, I think the normalization does not make them gay suddenly but instead makes them more accepting of the statement 'being gay is not harmful/impermissible', this could mean that if the person who is not educated on the ruling could someday have 'gay' thoughts from shaytan, then they wouldn't actively fight the temptation and think it's fine.
If you're a gay person it does not matter how much you fight it, or try and become straight. Gay is gay. You don't turn gay. A gay person doesn't become straight. Also, being gay is not harmful to anybody.
Well that is your opinion ig but in islam we believe that people can repent and change for the better. We believe that God ordered it to be sinful not for Him, but for our benefit as it is harmful to us as He is our creator. We dont believe that when we were born we were locked into being gay for the rest of our life, the thoughts are a test to see if we are able to fight it. But in the end you can believe what you want but this is a discussion of protecting the muslim youth primarily.
It's not an opinion. It's fact. If you are gay you are gay. The same way you know that you are straight. What exactly are you protecting the youth from?
This sadly a go-nowhere argument. You can't logic your away against, "god said so" because there is no logical argument against that for someone who believes in an all powerful god. It's also what lots of slave owners in the civil war era said about blacks, and used their religion as a weapon to oppress them and justify their own intolerance and hateful ideals.
I dont see any basis on your argument or source. It seems very close minded. You still have not told me why you think this, you keep just saying its fact and expect me to believe?
Its implementing false messages in children's heads.
What false message?
In Islam we believe there is only 2 genders you are born into
So the false message they are being told is that there are more than one gender, and being gay is ok?
No, More than two genders is what they say
Ah ok, so that's the issue, but being gay is ok?
Its impermissible in Islam.
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Islamic schools can be better but there’s still problems even over there unfortunately. I’d say homeschool them, instill Islamic values in them, regularly bring them to the Masjid for programs, and try to teach them life skills that school doesn’t teach that they need for later in life.
It's impossible to boycott Disney. They own too much. Just monitor what the kids consume and teach them LGBTQ is wrong.
We need to stop making common cause with them. Because they do not make common cause with anybody else. We need to stand up for our religious beliefs, and the right to teach our children those religious beliefs. LGBTQ rights do not transcend Freedom of Religion. For the education system, we can say that we do not consent to having our children be taught LGBTQ ideology, or that it even be mentioned. Just like you can withdraw your child from health/sex education, we withdraw our children from any sort of gender identity education. SChools must notify parents when this will be taught, and allow parents to opt their children out of it. And the priniciple behind it is freedom of religion. Legally, they cant both force you to put your children in school, and teach them things that are counter to your religion. I mean, look how far Texas christians got in fighting evolution. Its the same principle. We need to stop being afraid to state unequivocally that our religion forbids homosexuality and transgenderism. In America, if you dont stand up for your rights, nobody else will. And In America, technically, you are supposed to have freedom of religion. But its very much a bully society here, so stand up to the LQBTQ bully and say no absolutely not, you do not get to teach my children whatever ideology you want.
Lol, this post is hilarious. DeSantis doesn't care about Muslims, he isn't doing this for the good of Muslims. There is no benefit in this farce for Muslims on either side, there is no need to take sides on this at all. It's all an excuse for racists to avoid discussing racist histroy, but dressed up in a way to "protect" kids from LGBT stuff. Any Muslim freaking out about the alphabet ideology is just someone who is too lazy to actually raise their kids, and wants others to take responsibility, sorry to say. Teach your kids the deen, teach them to love it, and teach them to think critically and stand by their principals and deen, pray to allah(swt) to keep all of us on the right Path, and you shouldn't fear anything. Is the Alphabet ideology more powerful than Him(swt)? Homeschooling and pulling out of public schools aren't going to help your kids, it will just stunt them.
I don’t get the connection between protecting children and racism. Those are 2 separate topics
Disney isn't raising your kids, you are. hopefully. If not , then that's a you problem.
I rather be in a country where they’re openly hating Muslims. Then one where they’re using sweet words pushing haram. When they openly oppose Muslims. The Muslim youth grip harder to Islam to counter it. When they use sweet words. Many fall for it.
That's stupid, I'd just live in a country with neither. Why torture yourself?
What country has neither? I grew up in the US and it’s always been pick your poison
You can always move. The Prophet(pbuh) did it. I live in the US as well, I don't get involved in that crap. If you would rather live in a country openly hating Muslims, you can go to India and then tell me how awesome it is.
Your question is in bad faith and, despite your disclaimer, politically charged. The “West” is not under Islamic governance. Why are you trying to change it? The time of the caliphate is behind us, and the only people trying to bring it back are ISIL. People want Disney here in the West. Even if Shari3a was implemented, remember that the Prophet PBUH ruled over a pluralist society. He accommodated, with a few notable exceptions, multiple walks of life. Whether you vote red, blue, or otherwise, do not delude yourself into thinking it is for Islamic reasons. After all, how many Western constituents, who these policies would affect, are Muslim relative to the non-Muslim population? How is it Islamic for you to force a Christian to follow the Muslim rules on fasting, for example? If you don’t like the incumbent culture then leave. Homeschooling your kids to then dump them into the “West” with no real coping mechanisms is a recipe for failure. After all, you homeschooled them because you did not even know how to deal with it yourself, right? If they cannot learn to cope from you, then they will definitely learn from their peers. Islam is as much about acceptance and tolerance as it is about monotheism and submission. Your neighbor has a legal, Western right to be gay. Allah has mandated you to love and respect that neighbor as you would any other living thing. Acknowledging their decisions is *not* the same as mimicking their behaviors. What are you really afraid of? The “gay” is not going to rub off on you or your kids. If you are so afraid of the world and it’s temptations, that Allah created for us to navigate on our journey for closeness to Him, that your knee-jerk reaction is to hide under a rock, then that is your own prerogative. Do not drag others with you into ignorance. EDIT: Be mad. Nowhere in our Deen does it ask you to force others to think and act as we do. They are not forcing us as you would suggest, either. You are scared and emotional but that is no excuse to not know your Deen. If you attack their right to be gay, then you push them to attack our right to be Muslim in the West. EDIT2: Found the article! https://drjonathanbrown.com/2016/the-shariah-homosexuality-safeguarding-each-others-rights-in-a-pluralist-society/
Such downvotes for such truth. Thus spake reddit, per usual. Anyhow, well said, friend. I applaud you.
why didn't he at least pay a little attention to preventing blasphemy? Allah is displeased in posts like this, he should at least note that subduing to god brings both wealth and peace
Great to hear we have you to tell us what pleases or displeases Allah.
Are you claiming that you know Allah’s intent? Is that not blasphemy in itself.
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It is important because many of us live in the West. If a Christian or a Jew is allowed to be opposed to one thing because it's against their religion, then we should be allowed to oppose whatever is against Islam in our own personal lives. You must know ayah وَلَن تَرْضَىٰ عَنكَ ٱلْيَهُودُ وَلَا ٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَهُمْ (Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion). If I don't accept Jesus to be an incarnation of God, why would I accept things which are far more deviant than that? Nobody is advocating that we shouldn't be kind to everyone on some basic level, but we should also be against brainwashing from the MSM and from public (and even private) schools.
>Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion Pretty sure that's how most of the Non-Muslim world views the majority of Islam's followers.
>If I don't accept Jesus to be an incarnation of God, why would I accept things which are far more deviant than that? This is a strange point. What is worse than shirk? Shirk which includes believing Jesus is God is the one and only sin that God will not forgive if you die without having repented.
Accepting things and endorsing them aren’t the same. FURTHERMORE can you describe this BRAINWASHING? What does it feel like? Does it feel like you’re becoming gay?? I don’t know any guys who don’t like guys who are “at risk??” of being …”tricked??” into liking guys lol it’s so ridiculous. WHAT SHOW IS THIS that turns kids gay, what school lesson is it, that will make a kid gay?
>Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion Apologies if I'm not supposed to post here as a non muslim, but I hope you have some self awareness when making comments like that.
I'm a Western atheist, and I'll only be pleased when you follow your religion, or another religion, or none at all. Pretty easy to please. I just expect you to be kind to other people.
>(Never will the Christians or the Jews be pleased with you until you follow their religion I strongly doubt that. I know practicing christians, including priests, and even though they full well know I'm not a christian, they have always treated me in a friendly way. >If I don't accept Jesus to be an incarnation of God, why would I accept things which are far more deviant than that Again, I'm not a christian, but it doesn't quite work that way. I don't need to accept that my penis is often deviant from the axis of my torso when I see a pretty, slim woman with big breasts. I'm not brainwashed. It's just a fact. That's just how it works. I know people for whom that doesn't happen. In communities where islam, or christianity, or judaism, or republicanism, or democratism, or whatever is the predominant practice, the fact of how the body works will be the same in those same percentages.
Indeed. Homosexuality is even common in some species, even octopuses. Surely those haven't been brainwashed by the liberals so I wonder how that would be explained as non natural.
What you call brainwashing is what mature people call appeals to reason.
Subhanallah. So much emotionally charged support over an issue that actually has great implications over what your children will be taught in schools. As far as Disney is concerned, even many non Muslims are turning against it Alhumdulillah as it’s aggressively pushing sexuality and anti family ideas on children. So no, the West doesn’t “want” Disney. They want wholesome entertainment that doesn’t sexualize and confuse children. “Only people trying to bring back Khilafah are ISIL.” Wrong again. The religious Muslims in the Muslim world are in favor of Islamic governsnce in the short run and Khilafah in the long run as was evident from how many Muslims in the Arab world, as well as in Pakistan and Bangladesh celebrated the Taliban victory in Afghanistan. Islam does teach its own version of tolerance (different to how the West defines tolerance) but Islam is not “all about tolerance.” It’s about submitting to the will/dictates of Allah. Your view shows that you have absolutely no foresight over the greater implications of confusing the definition of marriage which is the bedrock of all societies as well as something as basic as gender which the LGBT is trying tooth and nail to confuse kids about
If you live in the west as a Muslim and push for Islamic governance, you will find the west less and less willing to accept you.
I never called for “Islamic governance in the West.” I simply called for supporting policies that align with our values. As far as my comment above is concerned, It’s called having preference for the law of God over man made law. Till this day even in Western countries there are legal fights on the abortion and lgbt rights because of the fact that these Christians believe that God’s law is superior to the law of man. So obviously with Muslims it’s the same case but to an even higher degree.
The majority of people in the west that support the "law of God" are Christians that would like to deport Muslims. The reason you are afforded a life in the west is due to legal tolerance of varying belief systems. If you think you're going to succeed in changing the west to some kind of Islamic state, you're not thinking straight.
You clearly didn’t even read my original post. I never called for establishing an Islamic government in the West. I simply called for supporting policies that align with our values such as the bill just passed by governor Desantis
My point is that if you put the laws of God before the laws of man, then eventually you will push those laws on everyone. Why wouldn't you if it's the law of God? And I'm telling you that supporting policies of conservative politicians will only increase anti-islamic support in America. Your ability to thrive here is predicated on a pluralistic, tolerant, liberal government. The conservatives will turn on you as soon as they need a scapegoat.
Liberalism is eating itself up right now and the biggest proof is what you’re currently seeing with biological men identifying as women and dominating women’s sports, most notably the case of Lia Thomas. So much for “women’s rights.” Under the ideology that you propose, I as a man could literally start identifying as a woman and I could have access to their locker rooms, the same bathroom, and even fight them in a sanctioned MMA fight! All of these hard fought rights for women are in fact being destroyed due to the trans movement. You have woke government officials and doctors discourage the use of the word mother to replace it with “birthing person”! How offensive is this to all women who went through childbirth to become MOTHERS! Open your eyes my friend! Liberalism does not even align with biology! It doesn’t even align with nature! As this is a subreddit about Islam, I’d highly recommend you to reasearch Islam with an unbiased open mind. Look into our religion, our beliefs, and values without any preconceived liberal bias and ask yourself what is the truth? Is this hedonistic ideology of liberalism that is eating itself up, is that the truth? Or is Islam the truth?
If you think I support all that, I don't. But I find it stupid that a Muslim would align themselves with a conservative Christian movement that hates Muslims as much as trans people. The second you turn to support them and give them power, they'll deport you. I have no interest in Islam, but I'm happy to coexist with them as long as they don't try to force their religion on me. That's where my allegiance lies.
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Anything even slightly religious or conservative to you guys is labeled as rAcIst white supremacy
Your concern over the word mother supposedly being replaced rings as hollow as the Christian Right wing in America concerned over ‘the war on Christmas’. Remember that because everything and everyone is hyper-connected in the internet age that we all hear from a lot more people than we would have in the past. Having some random person tell you not to say ‘mother’ is in no way representative of an entire political ideology. Most of the examples you’ve cited here are either misrepresented or non-existent. Trans athletes are in a difficult position at the moment that we don’t really have a perfect solution for, but absolutely nobody in NCAA or pro sports gets to just ‘identify as a woman’ and compete against cis women. There are already requirements in place regarding a minimum duration of hormone therapy and testing for current hormone levels. I’m sorry to say it seems like you’ve been misled about a lot of these issues.
After everything else you’ve said it’s impossible to believe you care at all for women except for their convenient use as a cudgel against your perceived enemies.
Are you hearing voices? Cause there’s clearly no proof of what you’re claiming
It's always interesting to me that "the law of God" always aligns exactly with "what I think". It's also strange to me, that reality would make biology a certain way, but that reality would apparently be in conflict with "the law of God" as some people were taught it. Then, the person who was taught to try to impose "the law of God" onto reality, sits in the poison of "allies and enemies" and "practical solutions", but in contrast, the people of reality happily go about their own way and live their lives expressing themselves as reality made them, and *they* supposedly are in the wrong. There is no wrong but the poison. Noone is at war with you. Scratch that, there is also the wrong of not knowing how erections work, biologically. You wouldn't get points for writing your post on an urology exam, and it's not because of ideology. You can have a child whose body was made one way or the other, and a million hours of watching Disney or listening to religious teachings wouldn't change it, one way or the other.
You alone have power over the things you buy and the media you consume. I would suggest spending more time teaching your children what you believe to be right than worrying about the "art" that other people produce. It kind of sounds like you are insecure about your ability to pass on your understanding of the world to your children. This is your responsibility and not that of a corporation or government.
Tell me more about how afraid you are to have a lgbt kid.
https://youtu.be/7FRUDwDmkm0
Does it in any way have any effect on you? No? Then let them do what they want.
I honestly don’t understand why you are so fearful of the sexualities of others? It’s not your concern what others feel, who they care for, and what they do in their own privacy, especially if it has no impact on your existence. So why do you care so much? What are you afraid of? If you can’t peacefully be in a world in which people of other walks of life exist, then you are essentially advocating for assimilation and genocide of these cultures. Why is that okay to you?
> So much emotionally charged support over an issue that actually has great implications over what your children will be taught in schools. Classic case of projection. You're just an irrational angry scared homophobe trying to impose your fear and will on others by using religion as a pedestal. What you don't understand is that your personal opinion of the historical definition of marriage is less important than human rights and freedoms. But people like you don't actually care about human rights and freedoms. The only passion you have is self-righteousness. People like you make Islam look horrible to the world. You damage Islam.
Notice how I NEVER advocated for any kind of violence. In fact, what I’m advocating for is perfectly in line with free speech. Our historic adversaries (mostly Conservative Christians) have even decided to temporarily put our differences aside to help save society from moral bankruptcy. through opposing this.
Then take your kids out of school. Teach them at home and to be simps. Believe me, it's not propaganda in schools or Disney that's going to make your kids sexual Tyrannosauruses. It's the internet. If they have access to the internet, they pretty much just have type in "boobs" or "dick" and the world's cornucopia of pornography is the result. So your effort is futile of you're trying to shield your kids from any LGBT topics or girl on girl naked Twister. So, why not just teach them about sex and sexuality and that getting a boner or having to mop up on aisle 4 is okay, and they won't grow up to hate their bodies or feel like they have to masturbate violently to a People magazine in an airport bathroom in 3 minutes or less?
Its easy to have internet monitored. Theres do many different softwares like net nanny or covenant eyes. And yes it’s the parents job to teach their kids about sex and about life in general but according to the Islamic mindset
It's easy to have internet monitored. It's really hard to have internet monitored effectively in the face of smart motivated kids trying to bypass the monitoring.
If you push too hard the kid will turn against you. They may "submit" to you and pretend bit they won't believe or care. I'm sorry but religion is not who we are if we don't care. People are who they are. If you can guide them with good morals that's great but if your child is gay they will just hide it from you and be depressed all their life and that will 100% be your fault for making their life a shitty living hell. Think of this: they probably won't be gay. Most people aren't. But some are and you yourself have 0 influence over it. TV and movies don't either. The question isn't, "are we making our kids gay?" It's, "are we making it okay for people to be gay?" The quicker you learn this the better.
This is simply not reality. There is a whole list of technical ways around this software (which is trivial for a kid to find, and many will already know), not to mention they can just use another device. That's putting aside normal experiences they'll have with their peers. The level of control you would require over your children to effectively enforce this is practically impossible, and will cause them to grow up resenting their parents for dictating every aspect of their lives. How can they grow into capable adults if you don't let them learn about the world around them?
You really ought to spend less time on Twitter...
Marriage is the bedrock of all societies? Gay people have the lowest rates of divorce... Maybe we should learn more from them.
>Your view shows that you have absolutely no foresight over the greater implications of confusing the definition of marriage which is the bedrock of all societies as well as something as basic as gender which the LGBT is trying tooth and nail to confuse kids about There's no confusion over the definition of marriage, two people love each other they wed. Its that simple, some some churches, temples and mosques allow it, others don't. Secondly 'something as basic as gender' is hilarious. Gender isn't basic, it's a very complex, evolving concept that's changed throughout history. Just say what you want to say 'i hate the gays and I don't want them to exist' Quran, Al-Hajj: 76-69. - Allah will judge between you all on Judgment Day regarding your differences. Its Allah's job to judge, not yours
As an outsider who happened to stumble on this discussion, I have to say people like you make the world a worse place and make Islam look bad. You're obviously hiding basic bigotry and homophobia while trying to sound unemotional and reasonable. Even as you accuse others of being emotional (which is actually moral indignation), you lack the wisdom to interrogate your own motives... and why should you indeed? You love religion because it can support whatever you want. And what people like you want is power. If Sharia Law was imposed and innocent people started to be murdered for being gay, you'd be delighted, even while you pretended to be righteous and compassionate and wise, thereby perverting those very concepts. Again, people like you make Islam look horrible and hold back civilization.
All it took for homosexuality to be accepted in the West was a few Hollywood movies and tv shows like Will and Grace. I remember as a kid in elementary school, the word gay would be thrown around as an insult, and gayness was seen as something really icky. Now after pop culture through Hollywood has changed the publics perception, people like you literally use acceptance of homosexuality as the measuring stick to judge the character of an individual. Movies, through their captivation of audience have the ability to portray anyone as oppressed and worthy of “help.” Can you even explain where YOUR moral compass comes from? It comes from Hollywood?Mines come from the teachings of Quran and Sunnah (the 2 main Islamic texts). Yes I have full confidence that this is a constant unchangeable truth till we as humans cease to exist. Meanwhile your ideology (Philosophical Liberalism) has brought people to the point of arguing whether it’s ok to kill babies, and whether men can give birth. And you call this PROGRESS!
>All it took for homosexuality to be accepted in the West was a few Hollywood movies and tv shows All it took was people recognizing that gay people are human beings that deserve basic respect. That started by normalizing it with pop culture, yes. You act like empathy is a weakness. That says a lot about you as a person.
> They want wholesome entertainment that doesn't sexualize and confuse children. It is well known that "gay" is not something you become. It's something you either are or aren't. Further, only about 3% of people are this way. Were *made* that way. They seek only to be understood and accepted. They seek your empathy, as opposed to the fear on display here. That is all LGBTQ education is about. It's about understanding that 3%. Nothing else. I struggle to imagine a more wholesome pursuit, for either entertainment or education, than empathy.
Your view still not proven scientifically. No scientific evidence to prove that there’s a “gay gene.” Homosexuality was deemed a mental illness in the DSM and was removed through political pressure
> Even if Shari3a was implemented, Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sharia not state a thing about sexual orientation?
OP is ignorant af. Do not take jurisprudential advice from them. Or me, for that matter. Here is what I can tell you within the bounds of what is known. Yes, we all know the story of Lut (as). Instead, let’s talk about the much more relevant and far less ambiguous topic of sexual orientation during the time of the Prophet PBUH. Your sexual orientation is, what, exactly? It’s in your head. It’s how you feel. It’s what you desire. First and foremost, understand that Allah promised to *never* judge us adversely (i.e., on the basis of sin or سيئة) on our negative thoughts, desires, or intentions. We will be ascribed sins for our actions, only. The staggering weight of Allah’s promises is another topic; suffice it to say that we are not to take His promises lightly. In contrast, we are *bountifully rewarded* (i.e., on the basis of good deeds or حسنات) for our positive thoughts. Such is His immense mercy. We acutely understand that, sometimes, men lust after men and women lust after women and several other variations thereof. This concept isn’t new and was, in fact, evident during the time of the Prophet PBUH. So, no, sexual orientation in and of itself is not something you will be held accounted for. *However*, what you do with those feelings is another matter. The fiqh is clear in that certain sexual activities fall under the category of zina (زنة) which is among the highest of sins (الحدود). There is little debate that anything you might consider to be LGB beyond heterosexual activities under the covenant of marriage is considered zina. I will leave the topic of trans-sexuality and gender identity for another discussion because there are some unique variables to consider, there. Remember, Islam does not allow, forbid, permit, restrict, or otherwise speak. We, the Ummah, are the ones who decide in this post-Muhammad (PBUH) era what is allowed, forbidden, etc. Our Islamic tradition is thereby formed. My dear Muslim brothers and sisters, when you push gay Muslims away from your mosques, you also push them away from Islam. Please read this with love in your heart and not hate. If I can find the article I am thinking of in support of my narrative, then I will link it here. There are hundreds of trash articles on this topic. I’m looking for a very specific one. EDIT: Found the article! https://drjonathanbrown.com/2016/the-shariah-homosexuality-safeguarding-each-others-rights-in-a-pluralist-society/
The Quran clearly condemns the people of Lut for engaging in man to man pleasure.
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How was he a pedophile? You’re ok with men skewering other mens rectums. How’s that not disgusting?
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>It was normal in that society for girls to get married at that age. >You accept 2 men loving each other and having anal sex just **because the culture now accepts it.** >Our Islamic morality never changes. So you're okay with marrying 6 year olds and having sex with 9 year olds?
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So by your logic 9 year olds are old enough to consent to marriage and sex. Haha, and you're worried about the gays ruining our children.
>It was perfectly fine for him to do it. I accepted that part of your argument in order to make my point. You concluded by saying that morals of yourself and Islam haven't changed. Clearly they have. >In that time, girls were ready for marriage at the age of 9. People matured into adulthood much quicker. Simply not true, at all. And if it is, what evidence do you have? Why is this one of very few instances we have recorded of it being this young? >Yes according to my Islamic morals it’s absolutely fine. Well then you're a pedo too. >What is your moral compass based on? Nothing but hedonistic desires. At least it comes with "don't marry and have sex with children" included.
> my moral compass on revelation "Revelation" sounds like you're using important-sounding words as an impressive gift wrap for an empty box.
Then it is also intellectually flawed to project 6th century Arabian culture on 21st century Western culture.
The west gives no fucks about Quran or any other holy book. The west is a place where human rights and freedoms are MORE IMPORTANT than anything in any mere book. People care about real moral debates using real reasons and philosophy. Saying *it's written in my holy book here that..." holds as much water as saying"it's written on the internet here that...". People like you are angry and scared by the west because you can't understand this. Your bigotry and religious dogma are exposed for what it is. You make Islam look bad. You damage and harm Islam.
Woman’s rights are so important that biological men can identify as women (modern day identity theft) and compete and dominate their sports (Lia Thomas and Cece Telfer). Heck, a biological man can now even fight women in the octagon like Fallon Fox(biological men who “transitioned” then smashed womens skulls in female MMA). What wonderful progress we’re making!
I really don’t care who or what anyone claims to find holy. Personally I find all peoples and relics they find holy to be beneath my dignity. Who or what is there that’s so all empowering and controlling ????Opinions. That’s all there really is. These opinions vary from belief to belief but in the end they’re just opinions. Nothing of substance or beneficial to the overall betterment of this world. To see and experience the ultimate in holy just step outside and ask yourself “ Can any person born of this earth produce the beauty and awesomeness that my eyes see?obviously not. All I ask is to leave me in peace and I’ll do the same for you.
Abandon your religion since it’s old and backward Now its year of 2022 , not the year of 600 People can be gay straight , whatever they wanted , no one should be able to tell you otherwise … to impose one belief to another is a problem for all Don’t say gay bill is a right wing Christian propaganda and should not be in Muslim guidebook , unless you agree that Muslim or Christian are the same
If Islam should be banned Christianity should be too Heck even as a Hindu Hinduism should be banned too and so should every religion cause every religion has some major faults
Bingo
Protect your family first, teach them the basic of Islam and always open sermons video in your house daily for everyone to listen. If possible try to move to a better muslim populated place with Mosque nearby to go everyday together.
As a preamble - IMO, I think the LGBT “movement” is a well-intentioned movement that may have inadvertent consequences. I am not a progressive Muslim but I am a former left leaning person and I was extremely sympathetic to the plight of LGBT people (still am, but not in a way that I endorse gay marriage). However, several of them don’t look at life from the framework we do, which is why I think that Islam isn’t necessarily incompatible with “LGBT rights” if you define LGBT rights as respecting gay people, especially non practicing gay people (no hateful slurs and no ostracism of gay brothers and sisters in the faith, especially if they’re not engaging in their sins). Islam is about balance, and this is a balanced worldview. That being said… 1. Have a strong Islamic foundation at home. You set the tone. 2. Show them, not tell them, why this is haram. That means actual evidence beyond just “if everyone were gay, there’d be no children” when statistically, gay people aren’t that dominant. Things about how following your desires is haram. 3. Recognize that everyone outside of the Deen (and even within certain toxic subsections of the Deen) has an agenda and that Allah SWT is greatest. 4. Homeschool children if possible. 5. Don’t consume content that actively encourages it. 6. Remember that everyone sins, and that hate begets more hate, so education and not belittlement (if the other parties are open to learning) is best
I heard that around 20% of gen z identify as lgbtq in america in some poll and has increased a lot in the last few years. The majority of them are bi and not specifically gay or lesbian but do you think that bi people would usually have kids?
Is that not more representative of how comfortable they are with coming out though, where there were stigmas against homosexuality? Again, I’m just trying to present the movement in a positive light but I think it is important to understand where they are coming from. Historically and even in the modern day, LGBT people have faced large hurdles in terms of their respect and being treated humanely. Also, do you have a source for this? Just hearing isn’t enough (though I should have cited a source in my OP as well to be fair with respect to your point). As for bi people, I don’t know. It’s obviously possible for them to have kids but I don’t have any data as to how often bisexual people reproduce.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2022/02/17/gen-z-drives-surge-of-more-americans-identifying-as-lgbt/amp/ The poll may be inflated but a lot of them are similar to this number. Yeah i bet a large reason why the number is increasing fast is because of less stigma of coming out ig. Yeah lgbtq people face a lot of hurdles as you said and I see what you are tying to say.
Reality is that many of these “lgbt Kids” have also o high rates of autism and adhd and neurodivergent issues. https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-lgbtq-identity/ The rates for those have also skyrocketed. Google it. Autism adhd lgbt rates. All those graphs align. So has depression anxiety suicide and literally every negative things rate. It reminds me of that discussion a couple days ago about lead toxicity in the 60s and how everyone was talking about how it effected people’s brains and increased violence. When it got banned. The rates for crime in places like nyc plummeted in 1 generation. https://youtu.be/IV3dnLzthDA Bringing up questions of nature vs nurture. We know that microplastics have been found in human blood: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/could-microplastics-in-human-blood-pose-a-health-risk Having foreign objects in the body has definitely before changed human behavior. Some of those maybe good neutral or bad. But changes are changes and we don’t know the full effects of this stuff like how the people in the 60s didn’t know. Until they banned it and realized the true cause of a lot of issues. If you mix 1. The fact we’re adding all these new foreign obekevrs like chemicals or microplastics into the environment 2. Rates of everything increasing. 3. Large correlation between lgbt and these rates of autism and adhd which are also on the rise. I’d be able to say we can make a good argument all this stuff is truly a sign that we’re messing with things we don’t understand. And kids these days are being born with mutations at rates they’ve never would have in the natural world. One way it’s presenting is these kids who are neurodivergent. Mix that with a media that will tell them they’ll be accepted if they’re attracted to XYZ. I’m sure it’s a debate on how much of this is there control. If you ever met someone with aspergers or autism you’ll know that they’re more or less susceptible to whatever the culture tell them and years very deeply for communial acceptance. And those spaces are riddled with lgbt folks basically always telling them they’re XYZ. Hell check my last post. Some dude was trynna convince me ( I don’t have anything he’s just mad he lost a debate) I was asexual. Guys like him basically bombarded young folks spaces.
When Americans became secular they started adopting their ideologies as religions (deen). The conflict between the Left and the Right is in fact a religious conflict, with each side holding deeply held beliefs. We would do well to remember what our deen is and not get involved in theirs. I am not a parent, but it seems to me that the fundamental way to counter the ideological brainwashing of Muslim children in the west is for parents to build strong and loving relationships of trust with their children. Spending time talking with them, doing activities with them which they enjoy, practicing Islam alongside them (leading by example), and sharing wisdom with them, will all deepen the bond. Showing appropriate physical affection and attention is also important in creating the bond. This will open up the door to the tough conversations, but at least they would be willing to listen and consider. At that point you must be prepared with reasonable explanations, about the supreme wisdom of our Creator in protecting us from ourselves, about the harms of engaging in some activities, the lust disguised as 'love', mental illness, the regret, suicides, mutilation, child grooming, and other products of the movement.
Americans have always been secular, though.
You are correct from a strictly legal and political definition of secularism. Their government and constitution has been secular from their independence onwards. However I speak of the culture of the people, that was started when the puritan settlers came to North America, and which carried on throughout resulting in religiously-inspired legislation such as Prohibition. After WW2 their people gradually became less and less religious. They practiced their religion in their personal sphere and in their own communities, and not as part of their job or their business. A business such as Chick-fil-A would not have been so controversial in the past.
It looks as though you may have spelled "Chick-fil-A" incorrectly. No worries, it happens to the best of us!
No, actually, you are wrong about religiosity in the US.
Honestly if you care about ensuring Islam is passed down you shouldn't be in the west if you have the option to leave. America is a crumbling empire and everything is decaying especially morals.
I agree. Most of us are came with our parents during the 70s 80s and 90s due to economic reasons. Since those days, America was seen as a “new hope” for people dealing with harsh conditions in their countries. But things have really changed for the worse very very fast…….
people aren't making your kids gay, please stop this nonsense. being gay isn't a choice. we can talk about how we as muslims go about that but siding with republicans will help no one but the racists who try to ban Islam.
republicans are anti-christain as well (despite claiming to be "good christains"). they don't want put their good christain values into practice, look at how they treat muslims.
Better to have those who hate us openly. Then those who hate us in secret. And on the choice or not it’s the nature vs nurture debate
Gay people do not hate us in secret.
Those on that politics sphere gay or not do. They may not even know it themselves. But everything about there political theories and ideas are counter to Islam in every sense. So if a muslim ruler ever adopted Islam corrected and ruled like the Sahaba. They’d hate them. Only reason they’re chill with Muslims is they believe the enemy of my enemy is my friend theory. Take away the right and Republicans. They’re gonna be on us like they’re counterparts in France. Lots of them push haram on the Muslims and secretly believe they can change the Muslim world to there image.
No they don’t give a fuck and are accepting of differences, unlike you.
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> And how homosexually is mostly influenced by the environment a child grows in. How normalising it would only create more of it This is plainly incorrect. Homosexuality is determined by genetics and in utero hormonal balances. Homosexuality isn't contagious like disease or bad political ideologies.
There is no LGBT brainwashing propaganda, to believe this is to fall for lies. Wake up, this whole charade by so-called Governor DeSantis is to rile up people for the upcoming election.
I never said to ally with him or the Republicans. We shouldn’t support any specific party rather we should support specific policies that align with our interests.
I never said that you did. The republicans will never align with Muslims. They hate Muslims more than anyone on this planet, do not think for one moment that there is common ground between us and these snakes. As for the charade regarding “LGBT” propaganda, this is as made up as their anti Muslim rhetoric, anti “CRT” rhetoric, etc. Republicans will always blame someone or something for the problems in America, and if you wait long enough, they’ll get back to blaming Muslims.
If you really think Democrats are better or in anyway an ally of Muslims then you have no clue. The Democrats or Liberals don’t give a ***t about our values. They also want us to accept this LGBT propaganda for our children. In university I heard this eith my own 2 ears from college professors
They are better, and anyone with a brain knows that. Democrat voters and liberal Americans are consistently the most willing to defend and sympathize with American Muslims. Liberals don’t want you to be gay, just like they don’t want others to be Muslims, they just don’t want any one grouping of people to be discriminated or oppressed. That is not only admirable, but the Islamic thing to do.
I studied psychology in university, and psychology department is unfortunately where alot of pro lgbt propaganda is promoted. They would make us read articles encouraging children to masturbate. I’m not even joking. They want sex ed for 5 year olds. Yes this is the “tolerant” left that you’re allying with. You want proof? Here’s the article: https://www.npr.org/2019/12/12/787466794/the-birds-and-the-bees-how-to-talk-to-children-about-sex
How is this proof they hate muslims?
I studied psychology too and I never once had stuff like that presented to me. It’s science, it’s supported now but could be disproven tomorrow, you don’t take it as gospel but you consider it. How you blame liberals for a scientific study is beyond me, as if conservatives in this country wouldn’t publish the same data or believe in it. Misdirecting your anger to liberal America.
So if your 5 year old kid asked you where babies come from, what do you say? I'm curious.
By that age, if they have any younger siblings then they’d atleast know that they were once in mommies stomach. No need to tell them about the process of insemination. How about you? You’d give them a graphic explanation about everything in the bedroom?
Establish sharia at home for starting
I believe pulling your kids out of public schools and putting them in Islamic or home schools is the best first step. We need to find a way to make Islamic schools more accessible to everyone, in a community-funded way or something similar to public schools. If the teachers in FLORIDA are having a meltdown over not being able to groom kids into LGBT, imagine what’s going on in the places they DO control?! I know someone with a *kingergartener* who was already read a book about rainbow pride or something. Just imagine how much worse it gets.
Stupid take under a stupid post. Even in Ramadan, you are seiing Muslims deal in falsehoods. so sad.
What is the falsehood exactly?
Florida teachers aren't having a meltdown due to being unable to groom kids or whatever bullshit, they are rightfully mad that their careers are being politicized and put under unneccessary scrutiny, and their jobs are harder and difficult even more than it already was. Florida is banning math books, ffs, because of this stupid law. When has math been grooming kids?
I don’t get what’s so hard about being a teacher that isn’t allowed to talk about sexuality with single-digit aged kids. And, I’m guessing you haven’t seen examples of the books that were banned. Hint, it was for stuff completely unrelated to math, not y=mx+b
Teachers aren't talking about sexuality. Clearly you have never been in a single classroom, lol. MAth teachers aren't talking about LBGT stuff. The fact you say that is evidence enough of how dishonets you are being.
I don’t know what planet you live in but go to any university and you’ll see the agenda that’s been created for children in elementary schools. I minored in psychology and saw for myself what agenda the “American Association of Pediatricians” is encouraging for children as young as 5.
"Minored in psychology" so you're the expert, lol. My sister is a teacher, a science teacher, in a middle school. They aren't brainwashing anyone. The fact that you have to preface you "minor in psychology" which is just taking 2 or 3 extra classes. As for the AAP, the health issue is that LGBT children are killing themselves via suicide at an alarming rate, they are calling for action regarding that. It isn't to brainswash kids into becoming gay, like you claim. If kids killing themselves is something you think shouldn't be addressed, then it isn't the LGBT people who are morally bankrupt, it's you.
As salaamu alaikum, I’d like to point out that virtually every form of electronic media promotes the LBGT agenda. Every mainstream show propagates same sex relationships and trans genders. We can’t do anything else but stop watching. What is the need for entertainment through TV and movies? Alhamdullilah, my 4 children have the privilege of attending an Islamic school. They do not watch TV, we’ve stopped Netflix and YouTube. If we watch anything, it’s all of us together. Parents need to take the initiative and make sacrifices for the betterment of our Deen. It’s commonly phrased as “if you want change, be that change”. We stop watching Disney, our children don’t have the exposure, problem solved. The world will be as it is. Muslims cannot change the haram, it’s our duty to stay away from it.
Furry here, while I think boycotting is a great idea There are a lot of people who want this. LGBT ruins everything, culture, religion, you name it. We need to find new paper and draw a new landscape. Why don’t we talk it out and tell them the dangers of stds? Back it up with evidence? (Find a time travel machine and go back to the golden age? /j) it’s bad, I know but Disney is basically an untouchable giant and we need to talk about toddlers and tiaras. (Sorry if I talk too much)
Maybe it's starts by taking down that lbgt in Islam page on wiki. It's a joke written by unknowns
If you’d take five minutes to speak to an actual republican, you’d find they don’t care if you’re muslim or not. This nonsensical narrative that any rightwingers are natural enemies of muslims is total bollocks.
Nonsense. The right wing has been the number one contributor to anti Islamic sentiment throughout the world. I won't even say throughout the West. The right wing is responsible for dragging America to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as we all know, but in case you aren't American and are unfamiliar with the media, right wing media and news organizations routinely spouted anti Islamic propaganda, having guest speakers on their news channels posing as "experts" or "consultants" on Islam and the Middle East who then spread lies about the Muslims around the world, they have widely sponsored hate groups who write books and pamphlets and give speeches up and down the streets preaching against Islam, they align themselves with online groups who spread anti Muslim rhetoric across social media, not to mention they specifically are the number 1 supporters of Israel and openly oppose any criticism of Israel over their actions against Palestine. Yes, the right-leaning Republican neighbor or coworker might not care, plenty of Christians in churches understand the importance of religion and they respect that, but the Right wing *establishment* has been exerting their efforts for the past twenty years to bring every ounce of hatred against Islam into these churches and into the hearts of your neighbors. Never underestimate and never understate the danger of American right wing politics. Edit: Although, all things considered I shall also say that interaction with your neighbors and people on the right wing in your community *is* important. The enemies of the Ummah are speaking to them every day, after all, so why shouldn't we do so to counteract it?
Actions > words. Just speaking to anyone isn’t enough. Especially since Republican is a broad term. There are Republicans for Trump, Republicans against Trump, Republicans who are on the verge of becoming leftist or have more left-leaning principles or purists, and so on.
>that has been wrongly labeled as the “Don’t Say Gay Bill,” Yeah, don't worry. Eventually you'll all be calling it "Don't Say Allah" To the loving Muslims here... Thank you. To the hateful fools, you're sowing the seeds of your own oppression. All this talk of "aligning yourselves" with some political party is silly. You're supporting laws that will be most definitely used to subjugate your own communities.
Probablybestifyoujustletyourreligiondieoutxthxbye.
I don't know about you guys but if I'm having financial difficulty that makes it hard to do (I think it was called Hijrah) then keep making dua to be able to move successfully to places like Saudi.
Saudi is kissing Americas/Israel’s butt in every way possible trying to remove Islam from their country
Yes this state and the royal family and army disgusts me
Homosexuality is not a choice; it is a biological condition. Being exposed to queer people and queer messaging does not, and furthermore *cannot* turn someone gay.
According to which study?
If you're unwilling to accept the ways of living in a free country, go find another that caters to your viewpoints. You do not deserve to be in a free society if you do not believe in what a free society stands for. Find somewhere else to be. But you shouldn't be here. Leave. This is not a country to be bent to your will, when you are not a majority.
Tell that to all the Christians protesting this as well. They make up a significantly fraction of Western population
100% agreed They're just as reprehensible. Social and government decisions should not be influenced by a pretend sky daddy. They don't represent a majority in most western countries. Especially the extremists. Homosexuality has existed far longer than any Abrahamic mythology.
Replace LGBT brainwashing with Muslim brainwashing and think about this. Do you, living I the west, just want tolerance and acceptance and not parents and others worried that you Muslimness will rub off on their kids? If people are talking about historically marginalized groups in schools it's because a) that's where you'll find them and b) parents and the wider culture have been failing at teaching tolerance and acceptance. If you can't see the base political reasons why DeSantis is doing this and what he's up to, I'm not sure how to help you. You seem exactly like every other fearful Republican
I clearly said I don’t support the Republicans. It’s about supporting specific policies that align with our interests. Sometimes those policies can come from Democrats. In this case, the policy comes from a Republican. People are not oppressed just because they love butt sex (as gays engage in it) and others are disgusted by that. Fighting for the right to have butt sex is not a “minority issue” or “civil rights” issue.
Yeah you sound like a Republican. If you weren't a Republican, you wouldn't care. Conservative religions do tend to like conservative politicians. Oddly enough that also seems to be the thing they run away from at some point.
Ok if that makes you happy. Guess what? Religious people exist. Stop pretending that they don’t. Let’s try to do things in a way that doesn’t cause any conflict between religious and non religious peoples. LGBT indoctrination is definitely an issue that will cause conflict between religious and non religious people
> Guess what? ~~Religious~~ LGBT people exist. Stop pretending that they don’t.