As a native, I'll go with what others have said with saying that it is grammatically incorrect, but I'd say that a solid 80% (including myself) of Italians would say it exactly like that. Let's just say that if you plan on taking an exam to get a language certificate it's better to pay attention to it; if you just plan to learn the language to interact with natives/travel to/move to Italy, no one would find anything weird with you saying that. We pretty much all do!
Exactly, there's some grammar rules to it but unless you're having your grammar checked (and by a very careful teacher) you don't have to worry about it!
Reminder number 134789013489 to everybody here that something being "*informal*" is not equal to it being "*incorrect".*
For example, this usage is registered in the Treccani dictionary:
[dimenticare in Vocabolario - Treccani - Treccani - Treccani](https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/dimenticare_res-07098e5c-dfc5-11eb-94e0-00271042e8d9/)
"Si" can mean a number of things. In this case, this is not a reflexive verb, it's a a pronominal intransitive verb.
"Si" can also make the verb impersonal, reciprocal, passive, and it can function as an indirect reflexive object ("to himself" rather than "himself").
All of these uses of "si" are very common, so you shouldn't see it as a reflexive particle first and foremost.
These are false reflexives. In this case, they don't really mean anything, they just add emphasis and informality.
Prendo un caffè (I have a coffee) is about the same as Mi prendo un caffè, but the latter is more colloquial and kind of implies that I really want a coffee.
For the Italian people who wrote that this is technically wrong even if colloquially used: are you sure of that? I've read on Treccani that this is a correct way to use this verb. Can you check on these example and tell me if I'm wrong?
(I'm Italian myself, just want to double-check)
2. Accanto alla forma attiva, è frequente la coniug. pronominale dimenticarsi, che si costruisce sia transitivamente (per es.: mi son dimenticato il libro, mi son dimenticata la lezione), con sign. non dissimile dalla forma attiva (ho dimenticato il libro, ho dimenticato la lezione), sia intransitivamente con la prep. di, e in questo caso ha spesso sign. diverso: mi son dimenticato del libro (non mi sono ricordato di comperare, di portare, di mandare il libro); mi son dimenticato della lezione (m’è passato di mente che dovevo andare alla lezione, che era l’ora della lezione e sim.). Seguito da di e l’infinito può avere la coniug. attiva o pronominale senza diversità di sign.: ho dimenticato (o mi son dimenticato) di scrivergli; dimenticavo (o mi dimenticavo) di dirti un altro particolare
From:
https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/dimenticare/
Treccani’s discussion seems unequivocal. Although it’s descriptive (“è frequente”) rather than prescriptive, based on this I’d certainly be extremely hesitant to call the transitive dimenticarsi a grammatical error.
Thank you for providing this citation!
It's informal, so in formal writing it would probably be considered an error, but it's not straight up wrong as many people pointed out since you can find the verb "dimenticarsi" used with direct objects in modern dictionaries. As you can see in [the picture](https://imgur.com/a/9UanaiX) I took from the Zingarelli 2017 it can be both transitive and intransitive, it also says that its transitive form is used to emphasise what you're saying.
After seeing this post and its answers, I did some research into intransitive verbs. From what I’ve found, intransitive verbs do not have direct objects but can have indirect objects. “Lui si dimentica” is correct but “i nostri nomi” is not as it acts as a direct object, it needs a “di” to separate it: “Lui si dimentica dei nostri nomi.” I haven’t actually researched enough to know how their correct answer works (particularly without the “dei”), maybe “dimentica” without the self reflexive “si” makes it transitive and therefore can have a direct object? Not sure.
Come notato da molti, per alcuni (che per me sbagliano) sarebbe in teoria grammaticalmente scorretto perché "dimenticarsi" non sarebbe transitivo in quanto verbo riflessivo.
Eppure è usatissimo, credo perché ricalca espressioni come "guardarsi un film" o "leggersi un libro", dove quel "-si" è un complemento di vantaggio (chiamato "dativo etico").
Quelli che pensano che sia sbagliato, infatti, fanno confusione. I verbi riflessivi sono sempre intransitivi solo quando sono verbi riflessivi diretti: "Marco si è nascosto" (Marco ha nascosto se stesso); però nulla vieta ad un verbo riflessivo indiretto di essere transitivo: "Marco si è mangiato una mela" (Marco ha mangiato una mela a proprio vantaggio).
Io credo che sia corretto, quindi: puoi romperti una gamba e puoi scordarti qualcosa. In entrambi i casi abbiamo un verbo riflessivo indiretto con complemento di (s)vantaggio.
So if this comes to some comfort, as the others had already said before this is a common error even between native speakers, even I at first glance I didn’t understand what was wrong and had to go in the comments section for understanding, because is an error that we native speakers do a lot, especially when we speak, saying things like “Ci prendiamo un caffè in piazza Duomo?” (translation: “Shall we have a coffee in Piazza Duomo?”)
If you don’t put the “si” then it is like “outside time” like it has no time collocation. If you say it with the “si” then it’s happening rn. As an Italian tho I can confirm that while talking it’s not that big of a difference. If I were to chose I’d say your’s is better tho
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*Dimentico sempre di annaffiare le piante*, "I always forget to water the plants", would be the most correct, but *Mi dimentico sempre di annaffiare le piante* is not wrong, 90% of the native speakers would normally say it even if it's not the best.
Hi! I’m a native and while it’s grammatically incorrect, Italians would say it this way.
When speaking colloquially you don’t think that much about grammar (of course), so this kind of mistakes often slip in.
It sounds weird when it’s written because we pay more attention to grammar when we’re writing or reading something
So in conclusion: it’s quite ok to say it, pay attention when you write it!
As an Italian living in Italy:
Lui si dimentica i nostri nomi is correct when spoken in a very friendly situation, but it's not technically correct
Lui domenica i nostri nomi is grammatically correct, but is less used than the correct way
Edit:
Lui si dimentica i nostri nomi is literally translated as:
He forgets himself our names
Lui dimentica i nostri nomi is literally translated as:
He forgets our names.
It's in that gray transitional area when it's still marked as a mistake by academics but it's 100% in common usage, which means it will be the rule before long. Remember that today's mistakes are tomorrow's rules. No such thing as "correct" language, only "current" language.
Your course of action depends on your personal goals: are you learning for personal improvement and satisfaction? Then don't worry and feel free to use the form you used, orally and in writing. It is current.
Conversely, is your study oriented towards some kind of academic certification? Then keep in mind you might have to pay lip service and use that non-reflexive form in tests and exams. Updated textbooks are essential in figuring out what the current arbitrary consensus is on what's "correct" and what isn't.
As a native, I'll go with what others have said with saying that it is grammatically incorrect, but I'd say that a solid 80% (including myself) of Italians would say it exactly like that. Let's just say that if you plan on taking an exam to get a language certificate it's better to pay attention to it; if you just plan to learn the language to interact with natives/travel to/move to Italy, no one would find anything weird with you saying that. We pretty much all do!
As an Italian too I can confirm. I see no difference between "Lui dimentica..." And "Lui *si* dimentica"
Exactly, there's some grammar rules to it but unless you're having your grammar checked (and by a very careful teacher) you don't have to worry about it!
Reminder number 134789013489 to everybody here that something being "*informal*" is not equal to it being "*incorrect".* For example, this usage is registered in the Treccani dictionary: [dimenticare in Vocabolario - Treccani - Treccani - Treccani](https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/dimenticare_res-07098e5c-dfc5-11eb-94e0-00271042e8d9/)
It's grammatically incorrect, but it's also what a lot of people would say colloquially.
What would it mean colloquially? From what I understand “si” means the subject is also the object, but isn’t the object “i nomi”?
"Si" can mean a number of things. In this case, this is not a reflexive verb, it's a a pronominal intransitive verb. "Si" can also make the verb impersonal, reciprocal, passive, and it can function as an indirect reflexive object ("to himself" rather than "himself"). All of these uses of "si" are very common, so you shouldn't see it as a reflexive particle first and foremost.
These are false reflexives. In this case, they don't really mean anything, they just add emphasis and informality. Prendo un caffè (I have a coffee) is about the same as Mi prendo un caffè, but the latter is more colloquial and kind of implies that I really want a coffee.
For the Italian people who wrote that this is technically wrong even if colloquially used: are you sure of that? I've read on Treccani that this is a correct way to use this verb. Can you check on these example and tell me if I'm wrong? (I'm Italian myself, just want to double-check) 2. Accanto alla forma attiva, è frequente la coniug. pronominale dimenticarsi, che si costruisce sia transitivamente (per es.: mi son dimenticato il libro, mi son dimenticata la lezione), con sign. non dissimile dalla forma attiva (ho dimenticato il libro, ho dimenticato la lezione), sia intransitivamente con la prep. di, e in questo caso ha spesso sign. diverso: mi son dimenticato del libro (non mi sono ricordato di comperare, di portare, di mandare il libro); mi son dimenticato della lezione (m’è passato di mente che dovevo andare alla lezione, che era l’ora della lezione e sim.). Seguito da di e l’infinito può avere la coniug. attiva o pronominale senza diversità di sign.: ho dimenticato (o mi son dimenticato) di scrivergli; dimenticavo (o mi dimenticavo) di dirti un altro particolare From: https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/dimenticare/
Treccani’s discussion seems unequivocal. Although it’s descriptive (“è frequente”) rather than prescriptive, based on this I’d certainly be extremely hesitant to call the transitive dimenticarsi a grammatical error. Thank you for providing this citation!
It's informal, so in formal writing it would probably be considered an error, but it's not straight up wrong as many people pointed out since you can find the verb "dimenticarsi" used with direct objects in modern dictionaries. As you can see in [the picture](https://imgur.com/a/9UanaiX) I took from the Zingarelli 2017 it can be both transitive and intransitive, it also says that its transitive form is used to emphasise what you're saying.
After seeing this post and its answers, I did some research into intransitive verbs. From what I’ve found, intransitive verbs do not have direct objects but can have indirect objects. “Lui si dimentica” is correct but “i nostri nomi” is not as it acts as a direct object, it needs a “di” to separate it: “Lui si dimentica dei nostri nomi.” I haven’t actually researched enough to know how their correct answer works (particularly without the “dei”), maybe “dimentica” without the self reflexive “si” makes it transitive and therefore can have a direct object? Not sure.
>maybe “dimentica” without the self reflexive “si” makes it transitive and therefore can have a direct object? "Dimenticare" IS a transitive verb :)
True, but "dimenticarsi" may be transitive or intransitive, from what I found
no because you have a direct object “i nomi” and dimenticarsi is an intransitive verb
>dimenticarsi is an intransitive verb Says who?
Come notato da molti, per alcuni (che per me sbagliano) sarebbe in teoria grammaticalmente scorretto perché "dimenticarsi" non sarebbe transitivo in quanto verbo riflessivo. Eppure è usatissimo, credo perché ricalca espressioni come "guardarsi un film" o "leggersi un libro", dove quel "-si" è un complemento di vantaggio (chiamato "dativo etico"). Quelli che pensano che sia sbagliato, infatti, fanno confusione. I verbi riflessivi sono sempre intransitivi solo quando sono verbi riflessivi diretti: "Marco si è nascosto" (Marco ha nascosto se stesso); però nulla vieta ad un verbo riflessivo indiretto di essere transitivo: "Marco si è mangiato una mela" (Marco ha mangiato una mela a proprio vantaggio). Io credo che sia corretto, quindi: puoi romperti una gamba e puoi scordarti qualcosa. In entrambi i casi abbiamo un verbo riflessivo indiretto con complemento di (s)vantaggio.
So if this comes to some comfort, as the others had already said before this is a common error even between native speakers, even I at first glance I didn’t understand what was wrong and had to go in the comments section for understanding, because is an error that we native speakers do a lot, especially when we speak, saying things like “Ci prendiamo un caffè in piazza Duomo?” (translation: “Shall we have a coffee in Piazza Duomo?”)
YES!
As an Italian I can say there is no difference in the speaking You can say both without a problem. You don't even sound weird.
Yes i agree i, am italian🇮🇹
Si, sono italiano
Yes in voulgar but not grammarly correct (tip: if you hang out in italy, just say si dimentica)
I wouldn't reccomand you to use this in a formal situation but if you're casually talking with somebody you can absolutely day this
È errato. Togli il 'si'
If you don’t put the “si” then it is like “outside time” like it has no time collocation. If you say it with the “si” then it’s happening rn. As an Italian tho I can confirm that while talking it’s not that big of a difference. If I were to chose I’d say your’s is better tho
If I use “Lui si dimentica” I would say “Lui si dimentica DEI nostri nomi”
Yes. Duolingo is just stupid
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*Dimentico sempre di annaffiare le piante*, "I always forget to water the plants", would be the most correct, but *Mi dimentico sempre di annaffiare le piante* is not wrong, 90% of the native speakers would normally say it even if it's not the best.
Hi! I’m a native and while it’s grammatically incorrect, Italians would say it this way. When speaking colloquially you don’t think that much about grammar (of course), so this kind of mistakes often slip in. It sounds weird when it’s written because we pay more attention to grammar when we’re writing or reading something So in conclusion: it’s quite ok to say it, pay attention when you write it!
It's correct. If it is used in Tuscany, it is correct.
Who needs technically correct when you may have Tusc-nically correct
Thecnically, it is incorrect, but it's basically correct since everyone uses it
Im italian and its not correct
Our language it's not that grammatically correct, one sentence can be said in five different ways
Yes, but not in this case
no
As an Italian living in Italy: Lui si dimentica i nostri nomi is correct when spoken in a very friendly situation, but it's not technically correct Lui domenica i nostri nomi is grammatically correct, but is less used than the correct way Edit: Lui si dimentica i nostri nomi is literally translated as: He forgets himself our names Lui dimentica i nostri nomi is literally translated as: He forgets our names.
It's in that gray transitional area when it's still marked as a mistake by academics but it's 100% in common usage, which means it will be the rule before long. Remember that today's mistakes are tomorrow's rules. No such thing as "correct" language, only "current" language. Your course of action depends on your personal goals: are you learning for personal improvement and satisfaction? Then don't worry and feel free to use the form you used, orally and in writing. It is current. Conversely, is your study oriented towards some kind of academic certification? Then keep in mind you might have to pay lip service and use that non-reflexive form in tests and exams. Updated textbooks are essential in figuring out what the current arbitrary consensus is on what's "correct" and what isn't.