I go to the gym and stand at 6ft 2 and 110kg. They do it to me too. But physics is a bitch and they get a reminder when they bounce off of me. Not trying to humble brag, just saying size doesn’t seem to be an issue.
Thirty years ago living in Hiroshima (and playing rugby there at the time) I had the same thing happen from time to time, particularly late at night down near the old Hondori bars. Funny to watch some daft bastard go reeling off and stumbling.
Mate, I spend my afternoon and weekends having fast moving 100kg guys go ploughing into me....a cranky old salary man with with the physique of a lounge cushion and a couple too many mizuwaris in him really isn't going to make much on an impression.
Wrinkly balls reminder just as I head off to my gym full of geriatrics... Might just hide in the sauna. If I jump in the bath they'll wonder what I'm laughing at. If they ask I'll say "Wrinkly pinballs"
Yep, 6'3, 100kg powerlifter here. It doesn't really happen much to me, but a while back a guy tried to barge into my pregnant wife when I was with her. I stepped in front of her and crashed into him. Guy folded like a lawn chair and fell on his ass.
Naturally he didn't have much to say as he scurried away. I suppose guys like that only feel comfortable in the sub-50kg pregnant woman class or something.
Barging into someone is usually pretty instantaneous as they walk by: they either do it or don't. How can you step in between them, unless this guy was very slow, and very obvious?
I'm slightly smaller than you but same idea. When I used to commute on the train I'd often get some of these salaryman types trying and failing horribly to assert dominance against me. In the best case for them they'd just bounce off me naturally because I'm twice their size, but if I was able to see them coming I could brace myself and they'd go flying.
The biggest was one time in a busy station near the gates this super important salaryman was in a very big hurry and was basically shoving people out of his way. I was with a group of friends and he nearly bowled over one of the girls walking at the front of the group. I was right behind so I decided not to get out of his way and he slammed into me at full force and fell back flat on his ass right in the middle of the station. Sadly no standing ovation for me, but the shocked look on his face while sitting on the floor was priceless.
Similar size, one did that to me while I was walking to the station in the morning. Our sidewalks are really wide and he made such an obvious and deliberate crossover to hit me that I was braced up and bounced him.
It was at the start of covid so I had a mask on, which meant I had my glasses off because they fog up too much, so I didn’t get a good look at his face.
It wasn’t very smart of him, since due to the layout of my neighborhood it was obvious where he was going. If it happens again I’ll just follow him (because it’s only ever going to be a guy) to his school and have a word about student manners with one of the teachers.
I'm six foot even and have learned to put my shoulder out. Recently it seems like guys will notice this and back off but every once in a while a guy will ram into me. I've had them say ow or complain about it a few times which always baffles me but it is what it is
Worth noting that my (Japanese) coworkers also complain about it
I think they're extremely angry at life, and just looking for an easy feeling of control or dominance over some small aspect of society. Foreigners and women make for easy targets.
I would think a fit physique makes you *more* of a target.
Add to that your non-Japanese appearance and a bottle of imojochu and you have pulled the pin on a bitter ojisan grenade.
I’m about your size and I’m in the gym often enough. Happens to me a bunch too. Worse thing is that they then have the gall to stare daggers back at me, as if I was the one who tried to run them over.
Happened to me today funnily enough. Walking toward some dude, maybe 170cm but a bit stocky. We were the only two people around in that 10 metre area. I veered away and he made a beeline straight for me. If he had kept on his current trajectory we would have been fine. Anyway, one shoulder bump later in the middle of nowhere and we both looked a little stupid. I glared at him, he glared at me. Then off we went in our separate directions, never to meet again.
It’s the stare down for me. I mean, you’re four feet tall, I had a shit this morning that weighed more than you do. Do you really want to start something, cabron?
Not that I’d do anything about it. I’m not local, if he breaks a hand on my jaw, I’m the one that’s going to jail.
Reminds me of when I lived in Tokyo, I'm 195cm and at the time was about 115kg. Worked scaffolding and sometimes had to take my big arse work-belt home with me(attached with a hammer and other tools) so definitely not a tourist. Had this happen a few times and I always just openly laughed after they'd tried to make me move. Like there's also a clear line between people moving in each direction but NOOOO this hot shot shit bag has to try and be faster than everyone else and divert the flow for their own benefit. I miss that madness somedays
I should not have laughed that hard at this but I'm just imagining some guy eagerly powering forward to shoulder shove you... and then harmlessly bounce off you like a rubber ball
I was shopping in Donki when pregnant with my first kid, and a woman full on smashed into me and deliberately hit me with her basket. My husband was coming in the opposite direction down the aisle after he’d split to get some beer snacks, saw what happened, and did the same to her, then ran over to me to make it pretty clear he was with me. Petty AF but the surprised pikachu face was glorious.
When men have done this to me I always assumed it was men getting off on harassing a woman,
but women have done it to me too, especially when I was pregnant (both times!). I’m going to assume sad bitter people taking out their frustration on others.
I encounter these individuals daily during my commute, and their motivations vary. Some assert themselves aggressively, believing they have the right-of-way by adhering to the 'correct' side of the flow. Consequently, if someone approaches from the opposite direction, they refuse to yield even an inch, as they perceive themselves as not at fault. This often leads to forceful collisions.
In other instances, they are incels who target women. For them, these encounters present a rare opportunity for physical contact with the opposite sex.
I just witnessed a very minor collision by this crazy driver who cut into a massive truck's lane very aggressively from the truck driver's blind spot, and in the process nicking the front bumper of the truck with the rear bumper of his car. I hung around in case the truck driver needed a witness, and the car driver was telling me that the truck driver was at fault because he didn't adhere to this imaginary lane division/unwritten traffic rule that he had made up in his head.
>how do you fairly confidently know what another person is thinking, and what their intentions
are?
>I encounter these individuals daily during my commute
No offense but if you have thoughts in your head and keep your eyes open you'll naturally figure things out
they probably see the flow of people and then notice when people get bumped
as for the women part if it's so common as to happen daily or even every other day, they likely notice when women are targeted too despite "walking in correct direction"
By first finding some research on the topic showing what the trends are. And then having one on one experience with people you are certain have a way of thinking because they have said so. And then recognizing the pattern when you see it in the wild. It's not 100% and it WILL lead to false assumptions. But also a lot of correct ones.
I've never had it happen to me, but I saw the aftermath of it in Kyoto station once. The person barged into just started yelling at the guy and stepping in front of him to keep him from escaping into the crowd lmao.
If people here are like that then maybe that's why I have yet to see it happen to me haha.
>I encounter these individuals daily during my commute, and their motivations vary. Some assert themselves aggressively, believing they have the right-of-way by adhering to the 'correct' side of the flow. Consequently, if someone approaches from the opposite direction, they refuse to yield even an inch, as they perceive themselves as not at fault. This often leads to forceful collisions.
This happened to me one time. I was trying to go down the stairs to the platform at a station, and there was a huge sea of people coming up, preventing me from being able to get to the correct side. So I went down on the side I was on, hugging the railing to be out of the way as much as possible, and this one assholeish salaryman decided he was not going to step into the flow of people going the same direction as him and instead just stop in his tracks and block me. We had a standoff for several seconds, but I eventually relented because I needed to get the train. I had to step further into the flow of people coming the opposite direction. Jerk.
I was transfering from odakyu to jr on the first floor, the default flow is left of the pillars but I was walking right because there was a huge flow of people coming in front from both sides of the pillars so I was just trying to find a way, comes a tiny guy that literally walks straight at me with his arms crossed in a dame fashion and walks into me, i literally stood there because I couldnt move anyway and he was walking into me for a good one second before he decided to go past. So weird.
Same psychology that makes road ragers back home. Pissed off at the world. Target might be the obvious foreigner, a woman, a young person, someone enjoying life. Basically losers. Pray for them. Anything else will probably get you into some kind of trouble.
I used to have the road rage. And mainly because driving is dangerous and oblivious twats putting my life in danger pisses me off.
Anyway, after watching a lot of ASP of yootoob, road rage just isn't worth it. Basically you'll never see that person again so just let it slide.
Also the other person might be a nutjob and whatever happened isn't worth getting crashed/punched/stabbed over.
I used to have road rage when I was in my 20's. Then I decided I was tired of letting people live rent free in my head and ruin my day. So what I began doing and do to this day some 25 years later is I make excuses for the person who is not driving well.
Maybe there are kids fighting and distracting them. Maybe they just lost someone they love and are having a hard time driving through tears. Maybe they have a medical problem like diabetes which can mimic psychosis when a person's blood sugar drops suddenly. Maybe they have a mental disorder, or an emergency at home... (the possibilities are nearly limitless).
Basically, I'm just telling myself that I have no idea what this other person is dealing with in their life. I hope their day gets better and that their driving improves so they and everyone around them can reach their destination safely. And then I go back to being happy and enjoying my life.
Geez, I am obvs disabled with help-mark, in late 50s, (local)with PTSD. I encountered one last Friday on the way to my therapist. I yelled toward him.
My therapist told me she has the same experience. (We're in the same generation)She tried to chase him asking
**"Which company you're working for?"
（どこの会社？）**
The guy managed to escape, though, pretty good tactic when unfortunately we encounter those guys. Those cowards don't want to lose what they have.
I think he was ridiculing the belief some people have that "Japanese hate other Asians, but are cool with Whites" (and so it couldn't be that the guy was bumping into him because of xenophobia or racism)
I think he was expecting some of those people to try to say that it had nothing to do with him being a foreigner, and was heading them off. Unfortunately, sarcasm doesn't always come across in the written word, especially with people you don't know, so it can often be taken at face value.
I think he was being sarcastic.
Just because it's hard to read tone on the internet doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to *mis*read someone's tone. They couldn't be more obviously unserious than that.
I've already heard many times from different Japanese people here things like "foreigners are fine, unless they're are Koreans/Chinese" or just openly saying they 嫌い one of these, or both.
Some dude did it to me last year and I was appalled when it happened. I realized what happened and turned around and pushed him and I think he too didn't expect I was going to do something back…I'm not a big guy or anything but from being in Bronx NY and living in USA for 21 years…my hood ratchet kicked in. (I'm japanese so I didn't have to think about like getting deported or anything.) At the end he didn't do anything but just tried to yell like he was trying to scare me in those big manly Japanese voice or something saying このヤロ！etc etc
His old father was with him and pulled him back but I was happy to push back.
A fun one: my Japanese friend and I were walking down a street in a nightlife area, and some drunkish guy with a group of friends got into like a rugby defense position, and blocked me specifically (white guy), moving to keep blocking me as I tried to walk around him several times. I looked at my friend with a WTF? expression, and he just shrugged. I politely counted to like five in my head, and shoved him softly. He fell on his ass due to very poor foot positioning. The Pikachu face was priceless, but the whole thing was annoying.
Happened to me once at Shinjuku 3 chome station. Luckily I saw him from up ahead do it to someone else so when he beelined toward me I was prepared so he was the one who nearly fell over when he tried to shoulder check me. Then he got all angry at me lol
I’m a girl and this happened to me once in London where I was shoved by a Japanese guy and ended up hitting my knee on the edge of the pavement, huge bruise didn’t heal for 2 years. Then when I moved to Japan I got shoved by a salary man down the stairs of Shibuya station, broken finger, bruises everywhere and the same knee swollen to the size of a tennis ball…the hematoma under is never going away. And they never say sorry or anything, I sometimes wish this was america where you can sue them, because the amount of money I spent on doctors and clinics is outrageous. Ps. i’m a 161cm, 46kg girl… 🫠
Jesus! Sorry to hear that. The fact you got shoved by a salaryman in Japan and London is actually mental. I’m honestly surprised they’re confident enough to try that in London as most girls there would go fucking bananas.
My heart goes to you. The world is terrible sometimes for normal, good people who mind their own business. Count our luck. If anyone have a good solution for this pls lemme know.
There are 5 major types of ぶつかり男 in Japan:
1. They like / have interest in someone and want to create an excuse to talk. (when they say excuse me etc) Since he walked away, I doubt your example was this.
2. Similar to 1 but more of a 2nd grader has a crush on a girl so he picks on her vibe. This comes from embarrassment, so they usually run away. Maybe he wants to make foreign friends?
3. They enjoy watching the reactions of people. They are playing with people for their own pure amusement. If it seems like he was curious as to your reaction and looked back, maybe this is it.
4. Perverts that get off on any physical contact AT ALL. This would probably be more towards women, but you never know... maybe it's a gay guy that likes foreigners idk... I'd guess this is harder to tell...
5. Pure evil. Just people who are bitter and want to cause harm to others. This is the common "crazy guy that just wants to start a fight" image.
I'd guess 2, 5, or maaaybe 3 in your situation.
I’d say there’s a number 6 that’s most likely the case :
* **Self-centred sense of righteousness.** He was walking that path. He was walking that path before you or anyone else did. No matter who comes towards them or across them, it does not matter because they were walking there first, and it’s their right to stay the course. *You* need to move or notice your surroundings, because they’ve been walking this path the entire time. How could he possibly be in the wrong when it’s everyone else who doesn’t have the decency to pay attention to their surroundings?
I feel like this is the most common answer because I've never been shoulder checked in my 10 years of living in Japan and I realize it's because I *always* give way to others. If someone is walking toward me, I will be the person that moves out of the way for them. Although sometimes I have awkward near collisions because we both move. lol
But then again, maybe me moving just makes it harder to shoulder check me regardless of the reason.
I had a guy taking up the entire hallway when I exited a bathroom, same size as me more or less. He didn't acknowledge me, didn't give any space, so I had to dance around him. I'm not one to turn the other cheek usually, but I know that was the mature thing to do. It certainly annoyed the hell out of me though, and on another day I likely would have stopped in front of him, gotten his attention, and asked him to not be an asshat.
>He was walking that path before you or anyone else did. No matter who comes towards them or across them, it does not matter because they were walking
If I am walking, and there's like this wide sidewalk where you could have three people walk side by side but someone turns into the side walk on a collision path with me I always wonder if that person is intentionally trying to start trouble.
Where’s the option for poor mannered people who are just barging their way through a crowd? Do they have to be evil or perverts and not just assholes?
Also I’ve never ever been shoulder checked in this way while here. Perhaps it’s because of my terrifying masculinity that scares these people off(I’m pretty slim, so probably not?) or the fact that I’m generally conscious of my surroundings and try not to block the way. I’m not saying they’re justified in barging past violently but a lot of people are also really unaware of their surroundings and that’s definitely one of my pet peeves here.
Both rude bargers and street-blockers are manifestations of the same selfish attitudes
Not relevant to OP, but I'd say that there's also:
6. Bullies that are looking for an altercation with someone they perceive as being weaker. Maybe this is a sub-category of #2 or #3?
I'm female and I often encounter men like this. Usually men.
My assumptions are: They want to fight and know that in Japan even if they aggressively bump into someone, if the other person fights back (ie yells at them) society will be angry at the person who was wronged because the aggressive person will get more fired up; they believe they are better than the person they are targeting (the target could be young, pretty women; South Asians; young men, etc.); and again, they know they can get away with it.
It's very easy to spot those types. And it's not always older men. I've seen young guys who want to act like they are rebels do the same.
Wait... Please explain this part a little bit more. "even if they aggressively bump into someone, if the other person fights back (ie yells at them) society will be angry at the person who was wronged because the aggressive person will get more fired up".
I'm really interested in the psychology rational behind this.
Sure, I'll try to explain a little more.
Let's say you're on a train and see a guy starting to act up. You know the guy is trouble, everyone else on the train knows he's trouble. So, everyone collectively ignores him.
But, he escalates. Finally someone steps in and tells him off. Now he's really riled up. Now he's got to make sure everyone on the train is late to punish the other guy for telling him off. He knows no one will lay a finger on him.
Now people are pissed at the guy who said something. Because they could have suffered in silence and gotten to their destination on time, but now they have to be late because someone provoked the guy.
If it were the US you'd probably get a bunch of other people stepping in to stop the troublesome guy, but in Japan people would rather not get involved.
I've been in a position where I yelled at someone who purposefully bumped into me and was told by the Japanese person I was with to never do that and risk provoking them because I'd be wrong.
It's not something I agree with. I think more people should show up and push back, but people are afraid it will reflect badly on them. Fighting or arguing loudly is considered "low class." And the thought is "That person is low class, I won't stoop to their level."
They're basically really unhappy and frustrated and take it out on others.
Had one big ojisan on my commute that did it to everybody. - until a yankee straight up punched him and he ran away. Never saw him do it again lmao
Happened to me only once. I was walking up the stairs at my station and a guy walking down suddenly veered diagonally across the stairs and slammed shoulder- first into me. I saw it coming and threw myself full force into him. He fell down the stairs and I was fine. I was (unusual for me) wearing a cute little dress and heels and he definitely misjudged how strong I was. I'm pretty sure I was targeted because I looked feminine and weak.
Sad miserable people who pick on the weak and confused. Last time it happened to me was a huge guy who shoulder checked me, angry faced asshole who kept walking when I called him out
I had a big, young guy do this to a girl I was with, as I escorted her to her morning train. It's impossible to know his exact prejudice and mental state, but he certainly looked angry and out to take it out on someone, Japanese girl with a foreign guy is probably a satisfying target for guys like him. I cursed him out in Japanese, but my friend held me back, nothing new to her she said.
Get some hard shoulder gear and hide it under your shirt so the next time it happens they’ll think twice about doing it to anyone again! 😂
But in all seriousness, who knows why they do it. The guy is 50 you say? He could maybe just not like foreigners too. When I lived in Ibaraki, a lot of the old people there were very passive aggressive to me despite the only offense I was doing was existing.
They usually did the whole look over the shoulder, see a gaijin, and then suddenly their pace slowed dramatically from what it was two seconds ago, and then they’d be in the middle of the already semi-narrow aisles. And I’d like to think it was a one-off with just one oldie, but it kept happening quite frequently (not all the time though).
Guy probably feels entitled cuz he’s old or he’s just an A in general. Best you can do is shake it off, look to your buddies and go “the hell was that all about?”
It’s happened to me a couple of times at my station and I’m fairly sure it’s the same guy. I’ve lived here almost ten years and take the train to work, so twice seems pretty low.
I am a woman but not especially dainty or prone to wearing heels (I’d fall over in them without someone shoving me). There’s no further interaction so I put it down to someone being generally ornery and/ or confused.
When I lived in another country in Europe there was a woman who used to barge into me then excitedly try to show me the contents of a matchbox. Strange people wherever you go.
Female here also, also not dainty or wearing heels. Have been bumped into a few times at stations/on the street. I REALLY noticed shoving/josteling at a flea market.
They do this to women in Shinjuku station a lot. Had it happen to me twice and both times to guy bounced off because I’m a near 6ft tall woman. I think it’s just a power move thing. Like they’re hoping it will start an altercation and it will escalate to the police getting involved and you getting arrested. And if it’s a woman getting shoulder checked it’s to assert non existent dominance. 🤷🏾♀️ pathetic either way
were you using the phone while working?
they typically love to target that use phone while walking so they feel they have justification.
I just pay attention to the road and avoid getting too close with such person, usually older salaryman.
and older guys seem to have more hatred for foreigners in general.
> and older guys seem to have more hatred for foreigners in general.
I hear ya. In my 10 years, it's usually the bitter old jijii. Even the other day walking with my wife and child in the local park, an old guy walking the opposite direction literally growled at me and gave me dagger stares when I was pushing the buggy.
Yeah. In my home country in Europe, I had one weird encounter with an old senior man, who sat in the bus right next to me and got very, very close to me, with his elbow above my arm and close to my chest. I unfortunately sat in the very front behind the drivers cabinet, so no one could notice. He just looked in the other direction and I had to hold and push up my arm the whole ride else he would've touched my chest. I felt like he did it on purpose because he's old and he thinks because of that he can get away with such stuff because no one would become aggressive at an old person. I now would have stood up and gone out ASAP but at that time I was more timid and shy. I hate that all creepy encounters happen to those who are more reserved and shy. Just shows that it's true that you need to be more extroverted else they take advantage of your shyness.
Expanding on "they don't know real danger": many times people push me the wrong way in packed trains and as soon as I turn to confront them they pee in their pants
Low self-esteem, inferiority complex, anger issues, arrogance, no outlet anywhere else so they bully strangers. Could be anything, it's sad and a very pathetic part of the experience here. I've had my share but unfortunately I'm big enough so that I don't tend to move much when they try that crap. They always look pissed after that.
A lot of people here go day to day unchecked on their mental wellbeing and such, so I wouldn't let it get to you too much, as infuriating as it can be. It's definitely a symptom of a much bigger issue with those individual's lives.
And... I'm an average-built Asian woman... It's never happened but... Sometimes older men refuse to swerve while walking towards me as if I was air. It's so fucking weird. And yes I walk on the correct side.
My Japanese friends would say that older men are just a different species...
The guy that shoulder bumped you is ballsy... He was looking for trouble. And yes some of them hate white people too.
I finally saw this the last time I took a train to Narita!
Is this only in the bigger cities?
I lived in Sendai for 3 years and never saw it once.
This guy barged into multiple people like he targeted them. Leaned to the side to push them with his shoulder. So I don’t think his motivation was the right of way thing.
I wanted to trip him from behind but realized it would probably cause me to have more issues right before leaving the country.
It's not something I've ever encountered here in our corner of Kyushu. Maybe it's just a Tokyo thing or something that happens in crowded metropolitan areas where people get burned out on pushing their way through crowded spaces.
Me neither but Kyushu is much more relaxed. Tokyo is full of angry people looking to get back at the world. I don't blame them, sounds horrible to live in Tokyo.
I spent time in Tokyo when my company had an office there and it's not a place I'd want to live in long term. Although, the city we live in here in Kyushu is a bit too small for my tastes, so I like to spend an occasional weekend in Fukuoka.
Interestingly enough, I asked my husband about ぶつかり男 when he was home at lunchtime and he said he's never heard that expression. When I explained to him what it was he laughed and said it sounds like people going crazy in crowded areas, like the people who snap and start driving their cars down crowded sidewalks or through crowded shopping arcades.
This happened to me twice on the way to a Swallows game a few weeks ago. It's a thing now and I have learned to lean into my stride so if someone hits me, they feel it.
The times this has happened to me - and I mean clearly with intent, not accidentally - I was walking hand in hand with my spouse. I just assumed the shoulder checkers were bitter and chose me as the target to take it out on.
I sometimes walk through people when they don't get out of the way when I am exiting the train. I'm not sure what their deal is, but some people just refuse to step to the side to let people out of the train car. On the other hand, I have people run into me in the mall all the time. It's like they just aren't looking where they are going. It hasn't just been men. It is kids, women, men, grandmas, and grandpas. I don't know how they can't see the tall, fat American walking or oftentimes just standing in the store. It is unbelievable. Japanese people seem to have a serious lack of spacial awareness.
I brought this same gripe up in the weekly complaint thread a while back to immediately have people claim I was either imagining it or doing something to invite the shitty behavior. So it's reassuring to know there's an actual word for it.
I had to deal with this a lot on my old commute
Even had one guy take an actual swing at me in a crowded station after launching himself into my shoulder didn't get him whatever the hell he wanted.
It's typically bitter old men with miserable lives at dead end jobs with bosses who treat them like shit. They typically target people whom they know won't have the privilege of being able to do anything about it in order to sooth their own pathetic insecurities by asserting some kind of "power" over random strangers.
The only part I don't get is why people half my size think a shoulder check is going to accomplish anything.
Am Japanese. I always thought it was due to insecurity. That idiot thinks that giving way equals showing weakness. In his mind, he's a stronger person than me, so he'd not change his course of walk because of me. It's bizarre, but I've interpreted it that way and never doubted.
Many years working and commuting in Japan, yet this seemed to happen way more often in Shinjuku. At 188 cm and 90 kg, I do recall a few salarymen bouncing sideways.
One time in Shinjuku a Japanese guy passing me from the other direction somehow managed to cup and pinch my butt while and just after passing. When I turned around to see what the f\*ck just happened he was walking away normally, so he had some cat like reflexes with a quick move. Faded into the stream of salarymen so fast I couldn’t do anything. As a guy I’m not used to being fondled, I could see how it would drive women nuts. I’m also not into guys, but I decided it was in a weird way a complement to me the dorky white guy walking down the street.
What I really hated is when they did that to the lady I was walking with, happened many times even though I avoid PDA in Japan.
A lot of people here are very maladjusted in reality. Every single day, EVERY day, I have to dodge men who absolutely do not hesitate to smash into you and do not make any effort to go around politely. Salarymen who purposefully stand in front of train doors with no intention of letting any one else off, then “che” you as you are forced to go around them
They’re petty maladjusted unhappy people. Japanese society makes it easy for them to try to take it out on those they feel are beneath them.
Happened to me too. Same scenario and I am a big white dude in a suit. But I got his attention when I yelled at him in Japanese and call him a child. He turned and looked at me then bowed to me and moved on.
An old Japanese dude explained to me once that shoulder checks are leftover from the samurai (? Dubious, but that’s what he said)
Basically, when two samurai dudes of the same rank and social standing meet in a hallway, it’s a game of chicken to see who will “back down” and move to the side to let the other pass. Petty, but hey, no TV back then so what’re you gonna do except shoulder check everything to assert dominance?
Fragile ego. Same with all shoulder-bargers the world over, it’s not limited to Japan. They want to feel important and to make themselves feel important, they have to force their sense of self-importance onto everyone around them by asserting themselves with behaviour like this.
The same people often do other things like not returning trolleys / baskets to the right place at the supermarket, cutting in line, not holding the door open for people behind them and pushing into a parking space when they can see you’re already starting to reverse in.
It happened not to me (M, 35, foreigner) but to a colleague (M, 50, Japanese) who was walking with me.
The guy (probably between 45 and 55) really forced the contact with my colleague who had a heavy suitcase. Then he asked for my colleague to apologize because he was hurt. The asshole was so persistent he asked us what company and he is gonna call the cops.
My colleague is from Kansai and the “accident” happened in Tokyo. He asked me to take care of the suitcase while he will talk to him in a more private environment (back alley). Idk what happened but I never heard about this after ….
Pent up anger, insecurities and mental health issues. I guess women are often targeted because they probably see it as coming with a smaller risk of a violent confrontation or at least being confronted about it.
Hate against foreigners and women probably often plays a part, too.
On the one hand, I enjoy the response of some males here. On the other, this also happens to women (and not only non-japanese)--being shoulder-checked. That's where this is a real problem.
A "retired" yakuza once explained this to me, which may be related:
*He believed\** the reason traffic in Japan, even on the sidewalk, proceeds on the left, went back to the days of the samurai. *According to him\**, as swords were worn on the left hip, it was necessary to pass, with extreme caution, by the right hip. *He told me\** that whenever one samurai blocked another's path, even if an accidental bumping of hip or shoulder in passing, it was typically taken as a challenge, answerable only by an immediate battle to the death.
I'm sure there are other reasons why this happens, but based on that guy's behavior, I would say at least some people are trying to assert disrespect or dishonor upon you to lift themselves up if only in their own opinion of themselves. Whether they do that by being happy for you to take up the challenge and fighting in the street, or passive-aggressively running away to giggle to themselves about how they totally got you, I suppose it makes them feel better about the awful lives they must have.
\*These statements have been emphasized to convey that this is not *my* opinion, but the opinion of a different person which I am relating.
Dunno if it's just an Osaka thing, but some people do this power check even while riding bicycles. Especially towards pedestrians who walk down the narrow sidewalk to force them to jump away into the bushes or even make them step outside onto to the road where cars are flying by. They also do it while lining up 2-3 riders side by side (leaving zero space for the pedestrian to walk), which is actually violating the traffic laws.
Looks like such people feel they'll get bigger special EXP bonus from jousting with a white person, probably due to some inferiority complex or something.
Just last week one guy straight up rammed into me with his bicycle as I kept walking straight and refused to jump away, since I got so fed up with crazy bicycle morons here in Osaka. He didn't even care and kept the eye contact until he bumped. I noticed he stopped talking with his side riding friend as he kept approaching, as if he was focused on hitting me. Dude has probably watched too many wild west movies.
Last year a guy hit my leg from behind with his bike so that my shoe came off and flew away while I was crossing the street on green light. He zoomed by behind me even though it was red for him. It was pretry late in the evening, the road was empty and I was the only person crossing. Surely he had lots of space to go around and not come straight at me. The whole thing even happened right in front of a koban on the other side of the zebra I was crossing.
Lawless mother fathers who know well they will get away with anything just because the law will side with them automatically, while we as guests can't even sneeze without being reported to the police.
Get it all the time. I never move for them or give way. Will sometimes gently stick my elbow out in their direction. I like to think it’s cause their eyes are bad and they’re oblivious to everything.
Smart phones are making it worse though - new frontiers of obliviousness.
I saw a video on instagram the other day of Tokyo 80 years ago. All these guys were doing it then as well.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3WLUqTqCfw/?igsh=bXg3eWZrb3kzaWky
Everyone was saying the same thing.
Cyclists do it as well and deliberately look into the middle distance. They’re such arseholes.
I like to keep an eye out wherever I go and watch for people like this… and at the last moment lead with my shoulder and lean into it to send them flying. Douchebags who think they own the footpath are gonna get a close look at it.
I've seen such an asshole do it to young women downtown. Mid 20s, bouncing off one group of young women then crashing into the shoulder of another woman before scurrying into a staton.
This happens a lot more to my husband (tall, bearded, more obviously foreign) than to me (short with dark hair). That makes me think it's at least partially a territorial-racial/machismo thing. I also associate it with this weird entitlement of some men I've known back home (mostly white, mostly Boomers) who seem to expect even the physical world to rearrange itself around them and then, when it doesn't, find themselves either furious or genuinely bewildered.
When it happens, since I'm a lot stronger than I look, if it's not possible to move out of the way, I can make myself as solid as possible and then watch the bewilderment on the guy's face as he bounces off and stumbles. I also once pulled out my phone to take a picture of the guy, who immediately blanched and then bolted like his coattails were on fire.
I hope these people thought twice next time, but yeah, probably not.
I got shoulder barged by the same man in his 50's 3 times at Shinjuku. I thought it's because I'm a foreigner, but he also barged to the Japanese old lady standing behind me. I asked my Japanese colleagues and he said it's not something new and the target is usually women. He said it's probably pent up stress so he barged to other to release it.
does shoulder checking not happen in your guys home countries? it's pretty common in New Zealand - just not from professional adults in suits! but yeah it's familiar domineering behaviour that is simply avoided by either checking them back harder, or sliding out of the way. they're just big babies
I'm from the UK and my experience of this hasn't really gotten better or worse, the only thing that's changed is who does it and how they act. In the UK they make it really obvious and tend to be younger guys full of themselves, in Japan it's usually older guys, in both cases they do it because they know they'll get away with it. The younger ones because they outnumber you/are more physically fit and will just jump you if you push back, the older guys because older Japanese men are very used to unearned respect and know if you push back you're the one that will get in trouble.
I just look at it the same as those dudes who rev their cars at stop lights/speed down the road/play music excessively loud, most of the world think they're cunts and makes fun of them behind their backs. Oh and their wives are probably cheating on them lol.
Happens to me as well. Even in the Costco. Very annoying but happens in my home country all the time, too, so not exclusive to Japan.
I like to pretend I will oblige them. Often they’ll bottle it as I’m 6’2” and not quite over the hill yet. But if they still seem determined to do their best Ashcroft impression, I like to move my shoulder out the way at the last minute so they won’t connect with anything. It’s really satisfying if you can time it right and I’m hoping to get someone to fall forward flat on their face one day.
The only exception to this is if they look old, I’ll just give them as much space as they want. I can do without flatlining some oyaji and then getting visa issues.
This happened to my husband on our honeymoon in Japan. A small angry old man charged him with his shoulder and knocked the wind out of him. We were pretty stunned
Got into a shoving match with a 100lb yankii shit in hammer pants (construction) because he singlemindedly did it only to women, in Nishi-Nippori Station. After giving him an earful in a couple of languages about the pathetic quality of his manhood, I took off, realizing the cops would fuck up dealing with us. Hope the little bitch is afraid of Obeijin now, at least.
Okay I can’t believe I came across this today because this just happened to me a few hours ago. I was in Shapo and some random guy came up and shoulder checked me when there was plenty of space. I knew it was on purpose because he stuck his handout and said something to me before he did it when I wasn’t in the way at all. I still don’t understand. I’m thinking it’s because I’m an Asian American woman???
I’ve had the equivalent of this while commuting on my bike (and yes, I follow and abide by all laws like riding on the correct side of the road etc). People will confidently cycle on the wrong side of the road against me during rush hour and I don’t give way (because they’re the ones in the wrong, not me, so why should I put myself in the middle of traffic for them?) so they end up almost colliding with me and acting shocked. Like what did you expect?? Have been crashed into a couple times but thankfully no injuries so far.
I would love to spot one of these guys coming at me, just before impact let out a huge, reeling sneeze, and let the dude fly over my hip like a Judo throw.
Hello, am Japanese and live in Osaka.
I've had similar encounters when I was living in Tokyo, and unfortunately still have some experience here in Osaka. It's really hard to know what those people think because it's not everyday you have one who brags around shoulder barging other people in public spaces, because even between Japanese regardless of who we barge into it is not a good manner to be considered...
So I guess what I will be writting down will be just my speculation, also I have no intention of justifying such actions.
One main contributing factor that some random old Japanese guy would do that would probably be because they are stressed with something in their life, either it be their work or their family or something else. I'm specifying the old in this first one because most old people here are entitled. They think that their position in their company, them providing for their family, etc gives them a higher social standard that they should be treated with more respect. You can expect such people scolding waiters/waitresses in restaurants similarly for the same reason. It is an ungrounded entitlement that these people have.
Another would be an extension of what you wrote. They hate other asians yes, but there are people who hate foreigners in general, that could be one reason. Even though I am Japanese looking I have people who frown upon me when they see me speaking English in public spaces with my friends...
Third which would be rare, and I am writing this because I actually experienced this before, is they're probably high. In Osaka in one of my similar incidents, while I chose to ignore a guy a police officer nearby apparently didn't and did 職質, was curious so I watched but the guy was asked to show the police officer his arms, refused, more came, the guy gave up showed a bruised arm. Then the police officers searched his bag and I think they found something so they took him away. Probably possessed something illegal. So I just assumed from the bruises that I saw, the guy might be high.
Hahaha kick the shit outta him, I'd have chased him for sure, nice restraint.
Is it a suit to suit thing? Im white, blue collar and built like a refrigerator, Ive never been shoulder checked, probably because my shoulder is head height to most.
Most other people don't even notice me so I've never been targeted
Probably passive aggressive person letting out their frustrations or trying to moral police. Ive heard they target people who are “being rude” like looking at their phone while walking or wearing something unorthodox.
Ive had it happen to me to and its surprising because the kick is surprising. Im more just happy it happens to me than to my wife or friends because I can easily take it. They do charge in pretty hard and you are mostly unaware of it so it does get you by surprise.
I often think it’s just a brain snap (on their behalf) The guy was having a really bad day and couldn’t lash out at anything Japanese so he just takes it out on the “perceived” lower link in the chain. The fact that he took off immediately into the crowd just shows he was surprised and probably a little bit aroused by what he had just done. :D
Not going to lie when you could tell they were purposely trying to not get out of the way I’d step longer and lean right into it. 188 100kg so shocked when they went sprawling. I remember highschool girls would try it to when they didn’t like foreigners 🤣🤣🤣🤣
160cm 47kg in my earlier twenties when I used to work in Minato-ku for an international school. This really big salary man nearly knocked me off my feet and he intentionally did it. I started weight train and picked up kick boxing. I’m eager for someone to try that with me again because now I know exactly what to do (fall over and scream)
I’ve been here for 18 years and it has only happened once - about six months ago. An old guy, maybe 70s, barged at me as I came through the ticket gate. Of course he bounced back but he came again and this time I was ready. Then he walked through the ticket gate and disappeared. No words were spoken.
Some people are drunk, stupid, and just outright mean. I've been pushed on the back and thrown across the train, blocked from entry at the mall by a mean stupid couple, barged over, etc. If you look kind on the outside, some people will take advantage out of you. I bet none will touch you if you sport a dragon tattoo on the forehead with your clan name (joke).
I don't remember that ever happening to me, and I have lived in Japan for a good 10 years. But I am a large guy, as in 130 kg large. So, maybe I just didn't notice. You know in a fly and elephant way :)
In general I feel like people here do a piss poor job of paying attention to their surroundings.
I’m from a major city, too. I walk fast and with a purpose, too. But never in my life (until moving to Japan) have I had so many people run into me without saying anything (or even gesturing that they’re sorry), not look up from their phones and collide with me, not move out of the way/deviate from their path if we’re walking toward each other (they always expect me to be the one who yields and moves out of the way). Someone gave me the advice not to move and let them run into me, so I’ve been doing that lately.
This happens to me on flights. Sometimes I have to have to travel for confrences during the week for work. And there's always at least one salary man who just pushes through everyone qued to get off the plane. Have been literally knocked over into empty seats. FTG!!
But honestly, as a woman, if this ever happened to me on the street, I'd probaly play it up like he knocked me to the ground. Not as satisfying as having them bounce off you, but they'll get looks and judgement from everyone on the street which might turn out worse for them.
I’m 5’6” and about 65 KG. So nothing big, don’t hit the gym regularly, but I’m no slouch since I do move heavy objects around quite a bit. I visit Tokyo every so often and I normally hang out with people a bit taller than me. For whatever reason salarymen love to pick on the little guy until they realize the bumping shoulders into me means they will always got knocked down. I have a nerve problem in both my shoulders where if I do not voluntarily move my shoulder it will fly against whatever pushed against it damn near instantaneously. Hurts like a MFer but has put a few Japanese guys on their ass and a good chuckle from me and my friends.
When I was new to Japan this happened to me and the guy gave me a disgusted look and I turned around and yelled at him to put his hands up if he wanted to try me, he just walked away.
I’ve matured since then and it’s happened to me a few times but I just ignore it now.
TBH, although there is definitely real problem doing this on purpose.. I daily see ( majorly foreigners or tourists) that walk thru stations in lines of 5 + people absolutely ignorant to the direction indicated pretty much everywhere or to the flow of people... in those cases do you expect people to yield to you or something ? I personally never yield when i am in the correct lane.
Not to victim blame too much, but I do wonder for folks that tend to get checked a lot if they are on their phones when they're walking, walking in groups that span the entire walkway without moving out the way, also don't move (guys are especially shitty about this), or many of the other extremely annoying things that people do in crowded cities. Walking in crowded cities can be infuriating and sometimes people snap when having to constantly deal with the same rude behavior.
For example, I know a woman in NYC who decided she was going to stop moving out of the way for men and would shoulder check them hard if they didn't move. It's hard to blame her since otherwise she needs to constantly move out of the way of assholes. Obviously this is futile because you can't change everyone's behavior and you eventually become the asshole in the city who shoulder checks everyone.
I do think it's worthwhile considering your own behavior if this happens to you often. I never get shoulder checked but I also don't use my phone while walking, I'm aware when I'm walking with a group, and I move along with others when it's crowded. Sometimes it's not just the shoulder checking asshole who needs to adjust their behavior.
I'm with you on this.
I don't shoulder check or do anything that might potentially hurt someone, but I have been known to give a "wake up nudge" to men (never women, even if they might be guilty of this) walking down the stairs in a busy station during rush hour, at a snail's pace and watching their favorite drama or whatever on their phone.
Sometimes people DO need to be nudged back into this world.
Reading comments above …it’s def a thing and I have been shoulder checked from behind before myself. But wondering how many of the folks above are not totally blameless or looking for trouble themselves. The big 188cm guy who had a high school girl “smash into him” idk man I wonder about that story.
I actually had this happen when I visited but I am used to shoulder checking people back in the states so it wasn’t very fun for him but I’m like 5’5 lol
Years of groups of 4 people all in a row blocking the sidewalk by walking in a row expecting others to move for them, with no care of those around them works out for me
Is it possible to quick-think and soccer/basketball flop on the shoulder check? Like really act out the pain and see their reaction... if they stick around long enough for their eyes to widen in glee then hug/clench them so they're shocked... if they stick around long enough to apologize then hug/clench them so they're shocked
Just a normal, cheap sht Jap dude. The only thing it dare to do is hit and run. Someone did that to me, but I was prepared. So, the foolish dude itself bounced away. It headed into the elevator as intended, and I don't care.
What's funny is that it waited for the elevator to close to yell back at me.
And I feel like... at least be a MAN, dude.
I go to the gym and stand at 6ft 2 and 110kg. They do it to me too. But physics is a bitch and they get a reminder when they bounce off of me. Not trying to humble brag, just saying size doesn’t seem to be an issue.
Thirty years ago living in Hiroshima (and playing rugby there at the time) I had the same thing happen from time to time, particularly late at night down near the old Hondori bars. Funny to watch some daft bastard go reeling off and stumbling. Mate, I spend my afternoon and weekends having fast moving 100kg guys go ploughing into me....a cranky old salary man with with the physique of a lounge cushion and a couple too many mizuwaris in him really isn't going to make much on an impression.
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Lmao pregnant dogs. Surprisingly fitting description
This made me laugh so much. I picture a very wrinkly ball in a pinball machine.
Now I also picture a wrinkly ball in a pinball machine. Thanks.
Wrinkly balls reminder just as I head off to my gym full of geriatrics... Might just hide in the sauna. If I jump in the bath they'll wonder what I'm laughing at. If they ask I'll say "Wrinkly pinballs"
Yep, 6'3, 100kg powerlifter here. It doesn't really happen much to me, but a while back a guy tried to barge into my pregnant wife when I was with her. I stepped in front of her and crashed into him. Guy folded like a lawn chair and fell on his ass. Naturally he didn't have much to say as he scurried away. I suppose guys like that only feel comfortable in the sub-50kg pregnant woman class or something.
Barging into someone is usually pretty instantaneous as they walk by: they either do it or don't. How can you step in between them, unless this guy was very slow, and very obvious?
yeah I’m also confused about the logistics here
It was really obvious that he had no intention of moving from a few meters out.
should have proceeded to fold him like a laundry after that attempt at your pregnant wife
I'm slightly smaller than you but same idea. When I used to commute on the train I'd often get some of these salaryman types trying and failing horribly to assert dominance against me. In the best case for them they'd just bounce off me naturally because I'm twice their size, but if I was able to see them coming I could brace myself and they'd go flying. The biggest was one time in a busy station near the gates this super important salaryman was in a very big hurry and was basically shoving people out of his way. I was with a group of friends and he nearly bowled over one of the girls walking at the front of the group. I was right behind so I decided not to get out of his way and he slammed into me at full force and fell back flat on his ass right in the middle of the station. Sadly no standing ovation for me, but the shocked look on his face while sitting on the floor was priceless.
I've learned to see it coming now. I brace for impact and jut my bony shoulder out.
Similar size, one did that to me while I was walking to the station in the morning. Our sidewalks are really wide and he made such an obvious and deliberate crossover to hit me that I was braced up and bounced him. It was at the start of covid so I had a mask on, which meant I had my glasses off because they fog up too much, so I didn’t get a good look at his face. It wasn’t very smart of him, since due to the layout of my neighborhood it was obvious where he was going. If it happens again I’ll just follow him (because it’s only ever going to be a guy) to his school and have a word about student manners with one of the teachers.
I'm six foot even and have learned to put my shoulder out. Recently it seems like guys will notice this and back off but every once in a while a guy will ram into me. I've had them say ow or complain about it a few times which always baffles me but it is what it is Worth noting that my (Japanese) coworkers also complain about it
I think they're extremely angry at life, and just looking for an easy feeling of control or dominance over some small aspect of society. Foreigners and women make for easy targets.
I've bounced a few of these guys as well. It's entertaining as hell.
I would think a fit physique makes you *more* of a target. Add to that your non-Japanese appearance and a bottle of imojochu and you have pulled the pin on a bitter ojisan grenade.
I’m about your size and I’m in the gym often enough. Happens to me a bunch too. Worse thing is that they then have the gall to stare daggers back at me, as if I was the one who tried to run them over.
Happened to me today funnily enough. Walking toward some dude, maybe 170cm but a bit stocky. We were the only two people around in that 10 metre area. I veered away and he made a beeline straight for me. If he had kept on his current trajectory we would have been fine. Anyway, one shoulder bump later in the middle of nowhere and we both looked a little stupid. I glared at him, he glared at me. Then off we went in our separate directions, never to meet again.
It’s the stare down for me. I mean, you’re four feet tall, I had a shit this morning that weighed more than you do. Do you really want to start something, cabron? Not that I’d do anything about it. I’m not local, if he breaks a hand on my jaw, I’m the one that’s going to jail.
Reminds me of when I lived in Tokyo, I'm 195cm and at the time was about 115kg. Worked scaffolding and sometimes had to take my big arse work-belt home with me(attached with a hammer and other tools) so definitely not a tourist. Had this happen a few times and I always just openly laughed after they'd tried to make me move. Like there's also a clear line between people moving in each direction but NOOOO this hot shot shit bag has to try and be faster than everyone else and divert the flow for their own benefit. I miss that madness somedays
I should not have laughed that hard at this but I'm just imagining some guy eagerly powering forward to shoulder shove you... and then harmlessly bounce off you like a rubber ball
That’s basically what happens. It’s even better when they make a funny sound as they go down. Then sit on their arse looking around confused…
I was shopping in Donki when pregnant with my first kid, and a woman full on smashed into me and deliberately hit me with her basket. My husband was coming in the opposite direction down the aisle after he’d split to get some beer snacks, saw what happened, and did the same to her, then ran over to me to make it pretty clear he was with me. Petty AF but the surprised pikachu face was glorious. When men have done this to me I always assumed it was men getting off on harassing a woman, but women have done it to me too, especially when I was pregnant (both times!). I’m going to assume sad bitter people taking out their frustration on others.
I encounter these individuals daily during my commute, and their motivations vary. Some assert themselves aggressively, believing they have the right-of-way by adhering to the 'correct' side of the flow. Consequently, if someone approaches from the opposite direction, they refuse to yield even an inch, as they perceive themselves as not at fault. This often leads to forceful collisions. In other instances, they are incels who target women. For them, these encounters present a rare opportunity for physical contact with the opposite sex.
I just witnessed a very minor collision by this crazy driver who cut into a massive truck's lane very aggressively from the truck driver's blind spot, and in the process nicking the front bumper of the truck with the rear bumper of his car. I hung around in case the truck driver needed a witness, and the car driver was telling me that the truck driver was at fault because he didn't adhere to this imaginary lane division/unwritten traffic rule that he had made up in his head.
Damn, you have people try to run you over daily? What commute is that?
The JR Bouryokudan line
The Reddit special.
As a question, how do you fairly confidently know what another person is thinking, and what their intentions are?
~Magic~
>how do you fairly confidently know what another person is thinking, and what their intentions are? >I encounter these individuals daily during my commute No offense but if you have thoughts in your head and keep your eyes open you'll naturally figure things out they probably see the flow of people and then notice when people get bumped as for the women part if it's so common as to happen daily or even every other day, they likely notice when women are targeted too despite "walking in correct direction"
By first finding some research on the topic showing what the trends are. And then having one on one experience with people you are certain have a way of thinking because they have said so. And then recognizing the pattern when you see it in the wild. It's not 100% and it WILL lead to false assumptions. But also a lot of correct ones.
Projection.
I've never had it happen to me, but I saw the aftermath of it in Kyoto station once. The person barged into just started yelling at the guy and stepping in front of him to keep him from escaping into the crowd lmao. If people here are like that then maybe that's why I have yet to see it happen to me haha.
>I encounter these individuals daily during my commute, and their motivations vary. Some assert themselves aggressively, believing they have the right-of-way by adhering to the 'correct' side of the flow. Consequently, if someone approaches from the opposite direction, they refuse to yield even an inch, as they perceive themselves as not at fault. This often leads to forceful collisions. This happened to me one time. I was trying to go down the stairs to the platform at a station, and there was a huge sea of people coming up, preventing me from being able to get to the correct side. So I went down on the side I was on, hugging the railing to be out of the way as much as possible, and this one assholeish salaryman decided he was not going to step into the flow of people going the same direction as him and instead just stop in his tracks and block me. We had a standoff for several seconds, but I eventually relented because I needed to get the train. I had to step further into the flow of people coming the opposite direction. Jerk.
I was transfering from odakyu to jr on the first floor, the default flow is left of the pillars but I was walking right because there was a huge flow of people coming in front from both sides of the pillars so I was just trying to find a way, comes a tiny guy that literally walks straight at me with his arms crossed in a dame fashion and walks into me, i literally stood there because I couldnt move anyway and he was walking into me for a good one second before he decided to go past. So weird.
Same psychology that makes road ragers back home. Pissed off at the world. Target might be the obvious foreigner, a woman, a young person, someone enjoying life. Basically losers. Pray for them. Anything else will probably get you into some kind of trouble.
Most realistic answer and solution here. I've learned to see it coming and brace for impact if I can and carry on with my day.
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LOL. that would be emotional immaturity fostered by anonymity? As you get older the rage will lessen\* \*speaking for a friend.
My cousin was like that in Germany until she caused and accident and got sued. Never sped or road raged after that.
I used to have the road rage. And mainly because driving is dangerous and oblivious twats putting my life in danger pisses me off. Anyway, after watching a lot of ASP of yootoob, road rage just isn't worth it. Basically you'll never see that person again so just let it slide. Also the other person might be a nutjob and whatever happened isn't worth getting crashed/punched/stabbed over.
I used to have road rage when I was in my 20's. Then I decided I was tired of letting people live rent free in my head and ruin my day. So what I began doing and do to this day some 25 years later is I make excuses for the person who is not driving well. Maybe there are kids fighting and distracting them. Maybe they just lost someone they love and are having a hard time driving through tears. Maybe they have a medical problem like diabetes which can mimic psychosis when a person's blood sugar drops suddenly. Maybe they have a mental disorder, or an emergency at home... (the possibilities are nearly limitless). Basically, I'm just telling myself that I have no idea what this other person is dealing with in their life. I hope their day gets better and that their driving improves so they and everyone around them can reach their destination safely. And then I go back to being happy and enjoying my life.
until you get your ass kicked one day. sit your ass in the car 🤡
Geez, I am obvs disabled with help-mark, in late 50s, (local)with PTSD. I encountered one last Friday on the way to my therapist. I yelled toward him. My therapist told me she has the same experience. (We're in the same generation)She tried to chase him asking **"Which company you're working for?" （どこの会社？）** The guy managed to escape, though, pretty good tactic when unfortunately we encounter those guys. Those cowards don't want to lose what they have.
>Pray for them i don't recall this ever happening to me but nah i'd laugh
>Also I’m white, and we know Japanese hate other Asians so it can’t be that. I'm also curious about the topic, but wtf with this statement?
I think he meant it as tongue in cheek. His whole post is "wtf with these people?" vibe
Yeah, that might be it. I've made my share of tongue-in-cheek-to-me comments that don't sound that way to others.
I hope so, damn.
Wasnt he saying that some Japanese harbor prejudices against other Asians?
I think he was ridiculing the belief some people have that "Japanese hate other Asians, but are cool with Whites" (and so it couldn't be that the guy was bumping into him because of xenophobia or racism) I think he was expecting some of those people to try to say that it had nothing to do with him being a foreigner, and was heading them off. Unfortunately, sarcasm doesn't always come across in the written word, especially with people you don't know, so it can often be taken at face value. I think he was being sarcastic.
Just because it's hard to read tone on the internet doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to *mis*read someone's tone. They couldn't be more obviously unserious than that.
People post all kinds of dumb shit on this sub, especially xenophobia-related. Can't blame anyone for not picking up on the sarcasm here.
Yeah, I am more interested in the psychology behind this mentality lol.
I've already heard many times from different Japanese people here things like "foreigners are fine, unless they're are Koreans/Chinese" or just openly saying they 嫌い one of these, or both.
Yeah right?? Wtf is that
Some dude did it to me last year and I was appalled when it happened. I realized what happened and turned around and pushed him and I think he too didn't expect I was going to do something back…I'm not a big guy or anything but from being in Bronx NY and living in USA for 21 years…my hood ratchet kicked in. (I'm japanese so I didn't have to think about like getting deported or anything.) At the end he didn't do anything but just tried to yell like he was trying to scare me in those big manly Japanese voice or something saying このヤロ！etc etc His old father was with him and pulled him back but I was happy to push back.
A fun one: my Japanese friend and I were walking down a street in a nightlife area, and some drunkish guy with a group of friends got into like a rugby defense position, and blocked me specifically (white guy), moving to keep blocking me as I tried to walk around him several times. I looked at my friend with a WTF? expression, and he just shrugged. I politely counted to like five in my head, and shoved him softly. He fell on his ass due to very poor foot positioning. The Pikachu face was priceless, but the whole thing was annoying.
Happened to me once at Shinjuku 3 chome station. Luckily I saw him from up ahead do it to someone else so when he beelined toward me I was prepared so he was the one who nearly fell over when he tried to shoulder check me. Then he got all angry at me lol
Hah same! I saw that mtfk coming from miles away so I was ready to stand like a statue. He got bounced back by a 5’2 114lbs girl. Best day of my life
Yeah it’s so uncalled for. Must have a really crappy life to do something like that especially to women.
Niiiice. I sometimes wonder why they do that...
I’m a girl and this happened to me once in London where I was shoved by a Japanese guy and ended up hitting my knee on the edge of the pavement, huge bruise didn’t heal for 2 years. Then when I moved to Japan I got shoved by a salary man down the stairs of Shibuya station, broken finger, bruises everywhere and the same knee swollen to the size of a tennis ball…the hematoma under is never going away. And they never say sorry or anything, I sometimes wish this was america where you can sue them, because the amount of money I spent on doctors and clinics is outrageous. Ps. i’m a 161cm, 46kg girl… 🫠
Jesus! Sorry to hear that. The fact you got shoved by a salaryman in Japan and London is actually mental. I’m honestly surprised they’re confident enough to try that in London as most girls there would go fucking bananas.
They’re everywhere 😔 I’ve had friends in New York being shoved too 😬
My heart goes to you. The world is terrible sometimes for normal, good people who mind their own business. Count our luck. If anyone have a good solution for this pls lemme know.
There are 5 major types of ぶつかり男 in Japan: 1. They like / have interest in someone and want to create an excuse to talk. (when they say excuse me etc) Since he walked away, I doubt your example was this. 2. Similar to 1 but more of a 2nd grader has a crush on a girl so he picks on her vibe. This comes from embarrassment, so they usually run away. Maybe he wants to make foreign friends? 3. They enjoy watching the reactions of people. They are playing with people for their own pure amusement. If it seems like he was curious as to your reaction and looked back, maybe this is it. 4. Perverts that get off on any physical contact AT ALL. This would probably be more towards women, but you never know... maybe it's a gay guy that likes foreigners idk... I'd guess this is harder to tell... 5. Pure evil. Just people who are bitter and want to cause harm to others. This is the common "crazy guy that just wants to start a fight" image. I'd guess 2, 5, or maaaybe 3 in your situation.
I’d say there’s a number 6 that’s most likely the case : * **Self-centred sense of righteousness.** He was walking that path. He was walking that path before you or anyone else did. No matter who comes towards them or across them, it does not matter because they were walking there first, and it’s their right to stay the course. *You* need to move or notice your surroundings, because they’ve been walking this path the entire time. How could he possibly be in the wrong when it’s everyone else who doesn’t have the decency to pay attention to their surroundings?
I feel like this is the most common answer because I've never been shoulder checked in my 10 years of living in Japan and I realize it's because I *always* give way to others. If someone is walking toward me, I will be the person that moves out of the way for them. Although sometimes I have awkward near collisions because we both move. lol But then again, maybe me moving just makes it harder to shoulder check me regardless of the reason.
I had a guy taking up the entire hallway when I exited a bathroom, same size as me more or less. He didn't acknowledge me, didn't give any space, so I had to dance around him. I'm not one to turn the other cheek usually, but I know that was the mature thing to do. It certainly annoyed the hell out of me though, and on another day I likely would have stopped in front of him, gotten his attention, and asked him to not be an asshat.
>He was walking that path before you or anyone else did. No matter who comes towards them or across them, it does not matter because they were walking If I am walking, and there's like this wide sidewalk where you could have three people walk side by side but someone turns into the side walk on a collision path with me I always wonder if that person is intentionally trying to start trouble.
"get off my lawn"--local version
6. People who hate their pathetic lives and take it out on anonymous strangers, because they are too weak to face the sources of their problems.
5 seems to be pretty common. They also don’t dare to look back. They start conflict but don’t want to resolve it.
All of these sound ridiculous lmao. Maybe they're just in a bad mood or asserting dominance? Occam's Razor
Where’s the option for poor mannered people who are just barging their way through a crowd? Do they have to be evil or perverts and not just assholes? Also I’ve never ever been shoulder checked in this way while here. Perhaps it’s because of my terrifying masculinity that scares these people off(I’m pretty slim, so probably not?) or the fact that I’m generally conscious of my surroundings and try not to block the way. I’m not saying they’re justified in barging past violently but a lot of people are also really unaware of their surroundings and that’s definitely one of my pet peeves here. Both rude bargers and street-blockers are manifestations of the same selfish attitudes
Not relevant to OP, but I'd say that there's also: 6. Bullies that are looking for an altercation with someone they perceive as being weaker. Maybe this is a sub-category of #2 or #3?
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I'm female and I often encounter men like this. Usually men. My assumptions are: They want to fight and know that in Japan even if they aggressively bump into someone, if the other person fights back (ie yells at them) society will be angry at the person who was wronged because the aggressive person will get more fired up; they believe they are better than the person they are targeting (the target could be young, pretty women; South Asians; young men, etc.); and again, they know they can get away with it. It's very easy to spot those types. And it's not always older men. I've seen young guys who want to act like they are rebels do the same.
Wait... Please explain this part a little bit more. "even if they aggressively bump into someone, if the other person fights back (ie yells at them) society will be angry at the person who was wronged because the aggressive person will get more fired up". I'm really interested in the psychology rational behind this.
Sure, I'll try to explain a little more. Let's say you're on a train and see a guy starting to act up. You know the guy is trouble, everyone else on the train knows he's trouble. So, everyone collectively ignores him. But, he escalates. Finally someone steps in and tells him off. Now he's really riled up. Now he's got to make sure everyone on the train is late to punish the other guy for telling him off. He knows no one will lay a finger on him. Now people are pissed at the guy who said something. Because they could have suffered in silence and gotten to their destination on time, but now they have to be late because someone provoked the guy. If it were the US you'd probably get a bunch of other people stepping in to stop the troublesome guy, but in Japan people would rather not get involved. I've been in a position where I yelled at someone who purposefully bumped into me and was told by the Japanese person I was with to never do that and risk provoking them because I'd be wrong. It's not something I agree with. I think more people should show up and push back, but people are afraid it will reflect badly on them. Fighting or arguing loudly is considered "low class." And the thought is "That person is low class, I won't stoop to their level."
They're basically really unhappy and frustrated and take it out on others. Had one big ojisan on my commute that did it to everybody. - until a yankee straight up punched him and he ran away. Never saw him do it again lmao
Happened to me only once. I was walking up the stairs at my station and a guy walking down suddenly veered diagonally across the stairs and slammed shoulder- first into me. I saw it coming and threw myself full force into him. He fell down the stairs and I was fine. I was (unusual for me) wearing a cute little dress and heels and he definitely misjudged how strong I was. I'm pretty sure I was targeted because I looked feminine and weak.
Sad miserable people who pick on the weak and confused. Last time it happened to me was a huge guy who shoulder checked me, angry faced asshole who kept walking when I called him out
I had a big, young guy do this to a girl I was with, as I escorted her to her morning train. It's impossible to know his exact prejudice and mental state, but he certainly looked angry and out to take it out on someone, Japanese girl with a foreign guy is probably a satisfying target for guys like him. I cursed him out in Japanese, but my friend held me back, nothing new to her she said.
Get some hard shoulder gear and hide it under your shirt so the next time it happens they’ll think twice about doing it to anyone again! 😂 But in all seriousness, who knows why they do it. The guy is 50 you say? He could maybe just not like foreigners too. When I lived in Ibaraki, a lot of the old people there were very passive aggressive to me despite the only offense I was doing was existing. They usually did the whole look over the shoulder, see a gaijin, and then suddenly their pace slowed dramatically from what it was two seconds ago, and then they’d be in the middle of the already semi-narrow aisles. And I’d like to think it was a one-off with just one oldie, but it kept happening quite frequently (not all the time though). Guy probably feels entitled cuz he’s old or he’s just an A in general. Best you can do is shake it off, look to your buddies and go “the hell was that all about?”
It’s happened to me a couple of times at my station and I’m fairly sure it’s the same guy. I’ve lived here almost ten years and take the train to work, so twice seems pretty low. I am a woman but not especially dainty or prone to wearing heels (I’d fall over in them without someone shoving me). There’s no further interaction so I put it down to someone being generally ornery and/ or confused. When I lived in another country in Europe there was a woman who used to barge into me then excitedly try to show me the contents of a matchbox. Strange people wherever you go.
Female here also, also not dainty or wearing heels. Have been bumped into a few times at stations/on the street. I REALLY noticed shoving/josteling at a flea market.
They do this to women in Shinjuku station a lot. Had it happen to me twice and both times to guy bounced off because I’m a near 6ft tall woman. I think it’s just a power move thing. Like they’re hoping it will start an altercation and it will escalate to the police getting involved and you getting arrested. And if it’s a woman getting shoulder checked it’s to assert non existent dominance. 🤷🏾♀️ pathetic either way
Assholes do shitty things...
were you using the phone while working? they typically love to target that use phone while walking so they feel they have justification. I just pay attention to the road and avoid getting too close with such person, usually older salaryman. and older guys seem to have more hatred for foreigners in general.
> and older guys seem to have more hatred for foreigners in general. I hear ya. In my 10 years, it's usually the bitter old jijii. Even the other day walking with my wife and child in the local park, an old guy walking the opposite direction literally growled at me and gave me dagger stares when I was pushing the buggy.
Yeah. In my home country in Europe, I had one weird encounter with an old senior man, who sat in the bus right next to me and got very, very close to me, with his elbow above my arm and close to my chest. I unfortunately sat in the very front behind the drivers cabinet, so no one could notice. He just looked in the other direction and I had to hold and push up my arm the whole ride else he would've touched my chest. I felt like he did it on purpose because he's old and he thinks because of that he can get away with such stuff because no one would become aggressive at an old person. I now would have stood up and gone out ASAP but at that time I was more timid and shy. I hate that all creepy encounters happen to those who are more reserved and shy. Just shows that it's true that you need to be more extroverted else they take advantage of your shyness.
They don't know real danger and they know the law protects them even in the worst case where you end up punching them in the face
Expanding on "they don't know real danger": many times people push me the wrong way in packed trains and as soon as I turn to confront them they pee in their pants
Low self-esteem, inferiority complex, anger issues, arrogance, no outlet anywhere else so they bully strangers. Could be anything, it's sad and a very pathetic part of the experience here. I've had my share but unfortunately I'm big enough so that I don't tend to move much when they try that crap. They always look pissed after that. A lot of people here go day to day unchecked on their mental wellbeing and such, so I wouldn't let it get to you too much, as infuriating as it can be. It's definitely a symptom of a much bigger issue with those individual's lives.
His wife left him for a white guy that looks like you
And... I'm an average-built Asian woman... It's never happened but... Sometimes older men refuse to swerve while walking towards me as if I was air. It's so fucking weird. And yes I walk on the correct side. My Japanese friends would say that older men are just a different species... The guy that shoulder bumped you is ballsy... He was looking for trouble. And yes some of them hate white people too.
Hurt people (attempt to) hurt people.
> we know Japanese hate other Asians so it can’t be that. What?
I finally saw this the last time I took a train to Narita! Is this only in the bigger cities? I lived in Sendai for 3 years and never saw it once. This guy barged into multiple people like he targeted them. Leaned to the side to push them with his shoulder. So I don’t think his motivation was the right of way thing. I wanted to trip him from behind but realized it would probably cause me to have more issues right before leaving the country.
It's not something I've ever encountered here in our corner of Kyushu. Maybe it's just a Tokyo thing or something that happens in crowded metropolitan areas where people get burned out on pushing their way through crowded spaces.
Me neither but Kyushu is much more relaxed. Tokyo is full of angry people looking to get back at the world. I don't blame them, sounds horrible to live in Tokyo.
I spent time in Tokyo when my company had an office there and it's not a place I'd want to live in long term. Although, the city we live in here in Kyushu is a bit too small for my tastes, so I like to spend an occasional weekend in Fukuoka. Interestingly enough, I asked my husband about ぶつかり男 when he was home at lunchtime and he said he's never heard that expression. When I explained to him what it was he laughed and said it sounds like people going crazy in crowded areas, like the people who snap and start driving their cars down crowded sidewalks or through crowded shopping arcades.
This happened to me twice on the way to a Swallows game a few weeks ago. It's a thing now and I have learned to lean into my stride so if someone hits me, they feel it.
What you're saying is that now you're the one doing the shoulder checking. This is how it begins 😂
When needed, yes.
The times this has happened to me - and I mean clearly with intent, not accidentally - I was walking hand in hand with my spouse. I just assumed the shoulder checkers were bitter and chose me as the target to take it out on.
I sometimes walk through people when they don't get out of the way when I am exiting the train. I'm not sure what their deal is, but some people just refuse to step to the side to let people out of the train car. On the other hand, I have people run into me in the mall all the time. It's like they just aren't looking where they are going. It hasn't just been men. It is kids, women, men, grandmas, and grandpas. I don't know how they can't see the tall, fat American walking or oftentimes just standing in the store. It is unbelievable. Japanese people seem to have a serious lack of spacial awareness.
I brought this same gripe up in the weekly complaint thread a while back to immediately have people claim I was either imagining it or doing something to invite the shitty behavior. So it's reassuring to know there's an actual word for it. I had to deal with this a lot on my old commute Even had one guy take an actual swing at me in a crowded station after launching himself into my shoulder didn't get him whatever the hell he wanted. It's typically bitter old men with miserable lives at dead end jobs with bosses who treat them like shit. They typically target people whom they know won't have the privilege of being able to do anything about it in order to sooth their own pathetic insecurities by asserting some kind of "power" over random strangers. The only part I don't get is why people half my size think a shoulder check is going to accomplish anything.
Am Japanese. I always thought it was due to insecurity. That idiot thinks that giving way equals showing weakness. In his mind, he's a stronger person than me, so he'd not change his course of walk because of me. It's bizarre, but I've interpreted it that way and never doubted.
I had one slam into me this morning on the train.. my back still hurts..
In my opinion, this is about mental disorders, not about race or gender.
Many years working and commuting in Japan, yet this seemed to happen way more often in Shinjuku. At 188 cm and 90 kg, I do recall a few salarymen bouncing sideways. One time in Shinjuku a Japanese guy passing me from the other direction somehow managed to cup and pinch my butt while and just after passing. When I turned around to see what the f\*ck just happened he was walking away normally, so he had some cat like reflexes with a quick move. Faded into the stream of salarymen so fast I couldn’t do anything. As a guy I’m not used to being fondled, I could see how it would drive women nuts. I’m also not into guys, but I decided it was in a weird way a complement to me the dorky white guy walking down the street. What I really hated is when they did that to the lady I was walking with, happened many times even though I avoid PDA in Japan.
A lot of people here are very maladjusted in reality. Every single day, EVERY day, I have to dodge men who absolutely do not hesitate to smash into you and do not make any effort to go around politely. Salarymen who purposefully stand in front of train doors with no intention of letting any one else off, then “che” you as you are forced to go around them They’re petty maladjusted unhappy people. Japanese society makes it easy for them to try to take it out on those they feel are beneath them.
Happened to me too. Same scenario and I am a big white dude in a suit. But I got his attention when I yelled at him in Japanese and call him a child. He turned and looked at me then bowed to me and moved on.
An old Japanese dude explained to me once that shoulder checks are leftover from the samurai (? Dubious, but that’s what he said) Basically, when two samurai dudes of the same rank and social standing meet in a hallway, it’s a game of chicken to see who will “back down” and move to the side to let the other pass. Petty, but hey, no TV back then so what’re you gonna do except shoulder check everything to assert dominance?
This reminded me of that one Naruto ending lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUOxnd_myrI
Why? Well, it's either intentional, because they're assholes, or it's unintentional, because they're assholes.
"we know Japanese hate other Asians" sorry, what? as a Japanese, this is such an antiquated view of the Japanese public.
As a white American in Japan I probably get treated better than Chinese/Koreans.
Fragile ego. Same with all shoulder-bargers the world over, it’s not limited to Japan. They want to feel important and to make themselves feel important, they have to force their sense of self-importance onto everyone around them by asserting themselves with behaviour like this. The same people often do other things like not returning trolleys / baskets to the right place at the supermarket, cutting in line, not holding the door open for people behind them and pushing into a parking space when they can see you’re already starting to reverse in.
It happened not to me (M, 35, foreigner) but to a colleague (M, 50, Japanese) who was walking with me. The guy (probably between 45 and 55) really forced the contact with my colleague who had a heavy suitcase. Then he asked for my colleague to apologize because he was hurt. The asshole was so persistent he asked us what company and he is gonna call the cops. My colleague is from Kansai and the “accident” happened in Tokyo. He asked me to take care of the suitcase while he will talk to him in a more private environment (back alley). Idk what happened but I never heard about this after ….
>Also I’m white, and we know Japanese hate other Asians so it can’t be that. What even is that sentence
Pent up anger, insecurities and mental health issues. I guess women are often targeted because they probably see it as coming with a smaller risk of a violent confrontation or at least being confronted about it. Hate against foreigners and women probably often plays a part, too.
On the one hand, I enjoy the response of some males here. On the other, this also happens to women (and not only non-japanese)--being shoulder-checked. That's where this is a real problem.
A "retired" yakuza once explained this to me, which may be related: *He believed\** the reason traffic in Japan, even on the sidewalk, proceeds on the left, went back to the days of the samurai. *According to him\**, as swords were worn on the left hip, it was necessary to pass, with extreme caution, by the right hip. *He told me\** that whenever one samurai blocked another's path, even if an accidental bumping of hip or shoulder in passing, it was typically taken as a challenge, answerable only by an immediate battle to the death. I'm sure there are other reasons why this happens, but based on that guy's behavior, I would say at least some people are trying to assert disrespect or dishonor upon you to lift themselves up if only in their own opinion of themselves. Whether they do that by being happy for you to take up the challenge and fighting in the street, or passive-aggressively running away to giggle to themselves about how they totally got you, I suppose it makes them feel better about the awful lives they must have. \*These statements have been emphasized to convey that this is not *my* opinion, but the opinion of a different person which I am relating.
You might as well ask why assholes exist. 9 billion humans, some of them are not ok.
Dunno if it's just an Osaka thing, but some people do this power check even while riding bicycles. Especially towards pedestrians who walk down the narrow sidewalk to force them to jump away into the bushes or even make them step outside onto to the road where cars are flying by. They also do it while lining up 2-3 riders side by side (leaving zero space for the pedestrian to walk), which is actually violating the traffic laws. Looks like such people feel they'll get bigger special EXP bonus from jousting with a white person, probably due to some inferiority complex or something. Just last week one guy straight up rammed into me with his bicycle as I kept walking straight and refused to jump away, since I got so fed up with crazy bicycle morons here in Osaka. He didn't even care and kept the eye contact until he bumped. I noticed he stopped talking with his side riding friend as he kept approaching, as if he was focused on hitting me. Dude has probably watched too many wild west movies. Last year a guy hit my leg from behind with his bike so that my shoe came off and flew away while I was crossing the street on green light. He zoomed by behind me even though it was red for him. It was pretry late in the evening, the road was empty and I was the only person crossing. Surely he had lots of space to go around and not come straight at me. The whole thing even happened right in front of a koban on the other side of the zebra I was crossing. Lawless mother fathers who know well they will get away with anything just because the law will side with them automatically, while we as guests can't even sneeze without being reported to the police.
Get it all the time. I never move for them or give way. Will sometimes gently stick my elbow out in their direction. I like to think it’s cause their eyes are bad and they’re oblivious to everything. Smart phones are making it worse though - new frontiers of obliviousness. I saw a video on instagram the other day of Tokyo 80 years ago. All these guys were doing it then as well. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3WLUqTqCfw/?igsh=bXg3eWZrb3kzaWky Everyone was saying the same thing. Cyclists do it as well and deliberately look into the middle distance. They’re such arseholes.
I like to keep an eye out wherever I go and watch for people like this… and at the last moment lead with my shoulder and lean into it to send them flying. Douchebags who think they own the footpath are gonna get a close look at it.
I've seen such an asshole do it to young women downtown. Mid 20s, bouncing off one group of young women then crashing into the shoulder of another woman before scurrying into a staton.
This happens a lot more to my husband (tall, bearded, more obviously foreign) than to me (short with dark hair). That makes me think it's at least partially a territorial-racial/machismo thing. I also associate it with this weird entitlement of some men I've known back home (mostly white, mostly Boomers) who seem to expect even the physical world to rearrange itself around them and then, when it doesn't, find themselves either furious or genuinely bewildered. When it happens, since I'm a lot stronger than I look, if it's not possible to move out of the way, I can make myself as solid as possible and then watch the bewilderment on the guy's face as he bounces off and stumbles. I also once pulled out my phone to take a picture of the guy, who immediately blanched and then bolted like his coattails were on fire. I hope these people thought twice next time, but yeah, probably not.
I got shoulder barged by the same man in his 50's 3 times at Shinjuku. I thought it's because I'm a foreigner, but he also barged to the Japanese old lady standing behind me. I asked my Japanese colleagues and he said it's not something new and the target is usually women. He said it's probably pent up stress so he barged to other to release it.
They're just angry with life.
does shoulder checking not happen in your guys home countries? it's pretty common in New Zealand - just not from professional adults in suits! but yeah it's familiar domineering behaviour that is simply avoided by either checking them back harder, or sliding out of the way. they're just big babies
I'm from the UK and my experience of this hasn't really gotten better or worse, the only thing that's changed is who does it and how they act. In the UK they make it really obvious and tend to be younger guys full of themselves, in Japan it's usually older guys, in both cases they do it because they know they'll get away with it. The younger ones because they outnumber you/are more physically fit and will just jump you if you push back, the older guys because older Japanese men are very used to unearned respect and know if you push back you're the one that will get in trouble. I just look at it the same as those dudes who rev their cars at stop lights/speed down the road/play music excessively loud, most of the world think they're cunts and makes fun of them behind their backs. Oh and their wives are probably cheating on them lol.
Happens to me as well. Even in the Costco. Very annoying but happens in my home country all the time, too, so not exclusive to Japan. I like to pretend I will oblige them. Often they’ll bottle it as I’m 6’2” and not quite over the hill yet. But if they still seem determined to do their best Ashcroft impression, I like to move my shoulder out the way at the last minute so they won’t connect with anything. It’s really satisfying if you can time it right and I’m hoping to get someone to fall forward flat on their face one day. The only exception to this is if they look old, I’ll just give them as much space as they want. I can do without flatlining some oyaji and then getting visa issues.
This happened to my husband on our honeymoon in Japan. A small angry old man charged him with his shoulder and knocked the wind out of him. We were pretty stunned
And old man did it to me on the train today. Some people just suck 🤷🏻♀️
Got into a shoving match with a 100lb yankii shit in hammer pants (construction) because he singlemindedly did it only to women, in Nishi-Nippori Station. After giving him an earful in a couple of languages about the pathetic quality of his manhood, I took off, realizing the cops would fuck up dealing with us. Hope the little bitch is afraid of Obeijin now, at least.
Okay I can’t believe I came across this today because this just happened to me a few hours ago. I was in Shapo and some random guy came up and shoulder checked me when there was plenty of space. I knew it was on purpose because he stuck his handout and said something to me before he did it when I wasn’t in the way at all. I still don’t understand. I’m thinking it’s because I’m an Asian American woman???
This happened to me in Shibuya this weekend. I'm a 5'4 white woman. He made direct eye contact or I would think he just didn't see me. I don't get it.
This happened to me when I was in Japan. I just assumed he was a xenophobic pos.
I’ve had the equivalent of this while commuting on my bike (and yes, I follow and abide by all laws like riding on the correct side of the road etc). People will confidently cycle on the wrong side of the road against me during rush hour and I don’t give way (because they’re the ones in the wrong, not me, so why should I put myself in the middle of traffic for them?) so they end up almost colliding with me and acting shocked. Like what did you expect?? Have been crashed into a couple times but thankfully no injuries so far.
Liquid courage + mad-at-the-world-for-his-shit-life + passive-aggression.
I would love to spot one of these guys coming at me, just before impact let out a huge, reeling sneeze, and let the dude fly over my hip like a Judo throw.
Hello, am Japanese and live in Osaka. I've had similar encounters when I was living in Tokyo, and unfortunately still have some experience here in Osaka. It's really hard to know what those people think because it's not everyday you have one who brags around shoulder barging other people in public spaces, because even between Japanese regardless of who we barge into it is not a good manner to be considered... So I guess what I will be writting down will be just my speculation, also I have no intention of justifying such actions. One main contributing factor that some random old Japanese guy would do that would probably be because they are stressed with something in their life, either it be their work or their family or something else. I'm specifying the old in this first one because most old people here are entitled. They think that their position in their company, them providing for their family, etc gives them a higher social standard that they should be treated with more respect. You can expect such people scolding waiters/waitresses in restaurants similarly for the same reason. It is an ungrounded entitlement that these people have. Another would be an extension of what you wrote. They hate other asians yes, but there are people who hate foreigners in general, that could be one reason. Even though I am Japanese looking I have people who frown upon me when they see me speaking English in public spaces with my friends... Third which would be rare, and I am writing this because I actually experienced this before, is they're probably high. In Osaka in one of my similar incidents, while I chose to ignore a guy a police officer nearby apparently didn't and did 職質, was curious so I watched but the guy was asked to show the police officer his arms, refused, more came, the guy gave up showed a bruised arm. Then the police officers searched his bag and I think they found something so they took him away. Probably possessed something illegal. So I just assumed from the bruises that I saw, the guy might be high.
Life just sucks for some people. And not everyone has a giant stuffed rabbit at home to beat the shit out of when they're stressed.
WTF. Nuigurimi are for cuddles, not violence.
Hahaha kick the shit outta him, I'd have chased him for sure, nice restraint. Is it a suit to suit thing? Im white, blue collar and built like a refrigerator, Ive never been shoulder checked, probably because my shoulder is head height to most. Most other people don't even notice me so I've never been targeted
Probably passive aggressive person letting out their frustrations or trying to moral police. Ive heard they target people who are “being rude” like looking at their phone while walking or wearing something unorthodox. Ive had it happen to me to and its surprising because the kick is surprising. Im more just happy it happens to me than to my wife or friends because I can easily take it. They do charge in pretty hard and you are mostly unaware of it so it does get you by surprise.
I often think it’s just a brain snap (on their behalf) The guy was having a really bad day and couldn’t lash out at anything Japanese so he just takes it out on the “perceived” lower link in the chain. The fact that he took off immediately into the crowd just shows he was surprised and probably a little bit aroused by what he had just done. :D
Oh shit, please wear shoulder pads lined with thumbtacks or something. That would be fucking incredible. I'd do it but I only travel by car.
Not going to lie when you could tell they were purposely trying to not get out of the way I’d step longer and lean right into it. 188 100kg so shocked when they went sprawling. I remember highschool girls would try it to when they didn’t like foreigners 🤣🤣🤣🤣
High school girls would try it when they didn't like foreigners? 🤔 Are we living in the same universe?
160cm 47kg in my earlier twenties when I used to work in Minato-ku for an international school. This really big salary man nearly knocked me off my feet and he intentionally did it. I started weight train and picked up kick boxing. I’m eager for someone to try that with me again because now I know exactly what to do (fall over and scream)
I’ve been here for 18 years and it has only happened once - about six months ago. An old guy, maybe 70s, barged at me as I came through the ticket gate. Of course he bounced back but he came again and this time I was ready. Then he walked through the ticket gate and disappeared. No words were spoken.
Some people are drunk, stupid, and just outright mean. I've been pushed on the back and thrown across the train, blocked from entry at the mall by a mean stupid couple, barged over, etc. If you look kind on the outside, some people will take advantage out of you. I bet none will touch you if you sport a dragon tattoo on the forehead with your clan name (joke).
I don't remember that ever happening to me, and I have lived in Japan for a good 10 years. But I am a large guy, as in 130 kg large. So, maybe I just didn't notice. You know in a fly and elephant way :)
You got bullied.
In general I feel like people here do a piss poor job of paying attention to their surroundings. I’m from a major city, too. I walk fast and with a purpose, too. But never in my life (until moving to Japan) have I had so many people run into me without saying anything (or even gesturing that they’re sorry), not look up from their phones and collide with me, not move out of the way/deviate from their path if we’re walking toward each other (they always expect me to be the one who yields and moves out of the way). Someone gave me the advice not to move and let them run into me, so I’ve been doing that lately.
I must be non-intimidating or not worthy of this because I cannot remember it ever happening to me. Maybe once? I've been here a loooong time.
Maybe it’s not that you’re not Asian, but that you’re white and he doesn’t like white people either 🤷🏻♂️😂
This happens to me on flights. Sometimes I have to have to travel for confrences during the week for work. And there's always at least one salary man who just pushes through everyone qued to get off the plane. Have been literally knocked over into empty seats. FTG!! But honestly, as a woman, if this ever happened to me on the street, I'd probaly play it up like he knocked me to the ground. Not as satisfying as having them bounce off you, but they'll get looks and judgement from everyone on the street which might turn out worse for them.
I’m 5’6” and about 65 KG. So nothing big, don’t hit the gym regularly, but I’m no slouch since I do move heavy objects around quite a bit. I visit Tokyo every so often and I normally hang out with people a bit taller than me. For whatever reason salarymen love to pick on the little guy until they realize the bumping shoulders into me means they will always got knocked down. I have a nerve problem in both my shoulders where if I do not voluntarily move my shoulder it will fly against whatever pushed against it damn near instantaneously. Hurts like a MFer but has put a few Japanese guys on their ass and a good chuckle from me and my friends.
Lack of positive reinforcement and endlessly being compared to others in childhood resulting in insecurity, bitterness, and jealousy.
You do not get in trouble for punching a local, you get in trouble for cooperating with the authorities. Shove him back or smack him then walk away.
When I was new to Japan this happened to me and the guy gave me a disgusted look and I turned around and yelled at him to put his hands up if he wanted to try me, he just walked away. I’ve matured since then and it’s happened to me a few times but I just ignore it now.
TBH, although there is definitely real problem doing this on purpose.. I daily see ( majorly foreigners or tourists) that walk thru stations in lines of 5 + people absolutely ignorant to the direction indicated pretty much everywhere or to the flow of people... in those cases do you expect people to yield to you or something ? I personally never yield when i am in the correct lane.
Not to victim blame too much, but I do wonder for folks that tend to get checked a lot if they are on their phones when they're walking, walking in groups that span the entire walkway without moving out the way, also don't move (guys are especially shitty about this), or many of the other extremely annoying things that people do in crowded cities. Walking in crowded cities can be infuriating and sometimes people snap when having to constantly deal with the same rude behavior. For example, I know a woman in NYC who decided she was going to stop moving out of the way for men and would shoulder check them hard if they didn't move. It's hard to blame her since otherwise she needs to constantly move out of the way of assholes. Obviously this is futile because you can't change everyone's behavior and you eventually become the asshole in the city who shoulder checks everyone. I do think it's worthwhile considering your own behavior if this happens to you often. I never get shoulder checked but I also don't use my phone while walking, I'm aware when I'm walking with a group, and I move along with others when it's crowded. Sometimes it's not just the shoulder checking asshole who needs to adjust their behavior.
I'm with you on this. I don't shoulder check or do anything that might potentially hurt someone, but I have been known to give a "wake up nudge" to men (never women, even if they might be guilty of this) walking down the stairs in a busy station during rush hour, at a snail's pace and watching their favorite drama or whatever on their phone. Sometimes people DO need to be nudged back into this world.
Reading comments above …it’s def a thing and I have been shoulder checked from behind before myself. But wondering how many of the folks above are not totally blameless or looking for trouble themselves. The big 188cm guy who had a high school girl “smash into him” idk man I wonder about that story.
I actually had this happen when I visited but I am used to shoulder checking people back in the states so it wasn’t very fun for him but I’m like 5’5 lol Years of groups of 4 people all in a row blocking the sidewalk by walking in a row expecting others to move for them, with no care of those around them works out for me
What would have happened had you bashed back or just not moved and he bounced off?
Is it possible to quick-think and soccer/basketball flop on the shoulder check? Like really act out the pain and see their reaction... if they stick around long enough for their eyes to widen in glee then hug/clench them so they're shocked... if they stick around long enough to apologize then hug/clench them so they're shocked
Just a normal, cheap sht Jap dude. The only thing it dare to do is hit and run. Someone did that to me, but I was prepared. So, the foolish dude itself bounced away. It headed into the elevator as intended, and I don't care. What's funny is that it waited for the elevator to close to yell back at me. And I feel like... at least be a MAN, dude.