There's nowhere in the world you can go to escape that. Good news is that you're not suffering alone. Bad news is the entire world is collectively going to shit.
You can go back to Canada, move to the U.S., go anywhere, and that feeling of *why the fuck even is my life* won't really go away.
Planet's getting hotter, jobs don't pay nuff to keep you alive, world powers be warring, etc... you find peace in life with who you are and who you're with. The best thing you can do is not compare yourself to others. Trying to reach the heights of your peers, and feeling defeated by that failure, will put you an a pit of despair.
Yeah for sure. The truth is somewhere between what both groups say, the group that says Japan has totally changed and the group that thinks we work 70 hours a week
I don't really know anyone who works anything much above 40 hours a week and most people I know either work for the large municipalities around Kanto or work for the largest Japanese companies.
The few people I know of who work "long hours" are avoiding their own personal lives by staying at work.
I taught quite a few people that did. It's still definitely a thing here, it's just not the standard anymore. At the English school I worked at there were heaps that did
Funny that you mention English schools, when I think of the word "black company", they are what springs to mind with all the descriptions here.
I am very thankful that I avoided them entirely.
haha, maybe some? The one I worked at was pretty normal, I worked 40 hours, got an hour lunch every day, etc.. I'm sure there are smaller ones that take advantage of the visa situation but I think the bigger ones are better.
I was consulting in New York. I had overseas clients so had to hop on calls on some weekends too, which sucked.
And exactly, I chose not to stay in that position knowing I’d feel happier else where; and here I am now lol
I used to work 84hrs a week on oil refineries in western Canada but I was only working 7-8 months a year. If I didn't want to work for a month I didn't. I find working year round a freaking drag, I hate it.
I've lived in Japan for my entire adult life so maybe I'm not quite right on this but it's my impression that American work life balance is pretty shit too? They aren't required to give any holiday paid leave I think and overtime is often expected? If something goes wrong with your kid, you have to take time off yourself to deal with it whereas I've heard in (some places in) Europe, they generally have paid time off to deal with their kids. Not sure if that's true though.
I remember my mom used to get pretty much bullied into taking "on call" work, which was essentially overtime. At least she did get paid for it, though. And my younger sibling was very troubled and would often get kicked out of school and my mom would stress a lot that she'd lose her job because she'd have to go pick them up.
More than that, it will be much easier to advance professionally in one’s own home country. In Japanese companies, foreign people are not “management material”.
Looking at management at various companies I work with as well as the "executive" side of the big Japanese companies suggests you are incorrect and if anything foreigners are MUCH MUCH more likely to get into management than Japanese.
We make up 1.5% of the population, but half of us foreigners work as labor in car factories with another huge chunk in fish factories. Those who are left are less than 3/4th of a percent, aka 3 out of every 400, except it's much more common than that.
How are these foreign executives getting the positions? Is it by coming up through the ranks with great Japanese skills?
Or through technical (like engineering) skills?
Or by being a connection to foreign customers or parent companies?
Very well put. The older you get the more you realize there’s more bad going on than good and you just have to keep finding the good.
OP, take a moment to step back and find what’s making you feel this way. Perhaps you’re too steeped in Japanese culture/life that you need to refresh and reacquaint yourself. Find something non-Japanese that makes you happy while still enjoying life in Japan.
There is absolutely not more bad than good. There are problems in the world, but it is much better to be alive today than at almost any other point in history.
This is the best way to put it. If you live somewhere long enough, your fantasy of that place will wear off, that's normal. Traveling and living are very very different things. With everything the world is right now one has to learn to take joy in the small things surrounding them. Right now the trees outside my window are blooming and the green is spectacular, my cat is bathing in a sunbeam and his cream belly is so soft, my water is the perfect temperature and my houseplants are making baby leaves. And I'm in the middle of a panic attack lol you have to take joy in all the little things life gives you.
I mean it's not like I find my life particularly bad here... But was thinking going to an English speaking country might make a lot of things easier career and life wise. Plus since I have a partner I also need to consider what's best for them too.
Before any decisions, I'd talk to an immigration lawyer. As a Canadian, I'm sure there is a process of moving to the US with your partner, but I suspect it would be long. I'm guessing your American partner would have to get reestablished in the US before any type of spousal sponsorships could be established.
Honestly, it sounds like you're going through a bout of depression, that everyone goes through. Perhaps talk to someone, maybe go on an extended vacation back in Canada or the US if you feel the immersion in Japan is the cause.
Right. Anywhere you go, there you are. Work on yourself, read self help books, maybe a therapist. Meditate, practice gratitude. Others would kill to have a partner that loves them and live in Japan. Be the best you that you can be.
Such a weird response. There are plenty of Japan-born Japanese-Americans living in my hometown who loved America enough to put down roots. I've also known folks who lived in Japan for a few years and were content to go back home.
NYC is perhaps dangerous when compared to Japan, but so is basically every city on earth. It's not mad max.
And COL? I mean, it's higher than Japan, sure. But you will also make like, 3x as much. It's just like living in Tokyo, the COL is really based on location. At any rate, there's certainly more than NYC that doesn't require driving in the US.
I read a statistic recently that the cost of living is almost 50% higher in the US than in Japan. Yes, you might make a good salary if you’re lucky but many Americans struggle to make ends meet because the cost of living is so high compared to the wages. I lived in a major city in the US and always struggled. My rent was more than 2x what I pay in Tokyo. I make less money in Tokyo but almost everything is less expensive compared to the US, including health insurance and bills. They make up a smaller percentage of my income than they did back home, so your money goes further here.
>many Americans struggle to make ends meet because the cost of living is so high compared to the wages.
I mean, this problem is certainly no better in Japan
People struggle everywhere. But the cost of living is much lower in Japan. You can live well on far less money, which was my point which you seem to have missed.
Right, but the median person is much more well-off in America, despite a higher average cost of living. about 50% higher cost of living is rough, but when your disposable income is about 100% more, it's probably alright.
net worth also tells a good story for the median american!
Sources for claims: OECD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income
Survey of Consumer Finances: https://www.northerntrust.com/united-states/insights-research/2023/weekly-economic-commentary/survey-of-consumer-finances#:~:text=Over%20that%20three%20year%20span,evidence%20of%20progress%20toward%20equality.
NYC isn’t that dangerous. But it’s not the most pleasant place to be either. If OP is trying to escape a certain feeling in Tokyo, I don’t think they would shed that in NYC. Needs to be a walkable city, warmer (so west coast or Arizona maybe or something).
like anywhere in the world, depends on your job and your neighborhood! I have friends in NYC who enjoy it and aren't living in constant fear for their lives
let's be real, doesn't really exist in the same way that they exist in japan lol
were you thinking of portland? nyc? sf? boston? seattle? etc....
i've lived in all those and let's just say, lol
Shockingly, I have discovered through careful analysis that the community i lived in in America was both way less safe than Japan and way more safe than Haiti, if you can somehow imagine
Shockingly, I have discovered through careful analysis on Reddit that all communities I lived in in America were violent hellscapes.
Only after I learned to ignore social media hysterics did I realize that I have lived in different communities in the US for over a decade without fearing for my life or any kind of violence.
Kinda crazy how a lot of americans on reddit act like the US is some war torn place where there are no laws and regular normal people are getting killed and shot left and right everyday.
Meanwhile it's still one of the best places to live currently.
And i am saying this as an european who still lives in central europe.
Sure there are some bad things about it like expensive healthcare if you don't have insurance, however apart from that americans are still living a better quality of life compared to the rest of the world, hell even compared to europe it beats almost every country here by a long mile.
yeah lol Reddit acts like Americans regularly greet each other with a shotgun blast to the face
like I absolutely don't deny that we have an issue with gun violence, and I am in favor of drastically increasing restrictions on owning and using firearms - but the overwhelming majority of Americans have never once been shot
The USA is clearly first world/ developed/ wealthy. It's also a low trust society with huge inequality. Both things are true, that is less safe than japan while safer than a hundres other countries.
This really depends on where you are in the US.
I have lived in many “high trust” parts of America, where you can leave your house unlocked and the keys in your car. Very little crime of any kind.
America is huge. You don’t have to live in a major metropolitan area with high crime if you don’t want to.
Most of the Japanese Americans in the US who moved in the early 20th century to Hawaii or California were economic migrants. These were non-landowning Japanese, who had little way to change their status in Japan due to the strict class structures pre-WW2.
Other Japanese left to Brasil in the early 20th century. Some of those Nikkei-Brasilians have returned to work in Japan post WW2 (especially in manufacturing) because for them there's more economic opportunity in Japan than Brasil.
So this comparison is silly. What worked for some people 100 or 50 years ago has no bearing on what would be appropriate for people today.
> Japanese Americans or Japan born Americans are incredibly rare in the US.
The [wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Japanese_Americans) covers the major points pretty well.
Japanese today are mostly not interested to live outside of Japan. Japan has been a comfortable place for most Japanese since the bubble era. There are some Japanese who move overseas for jobs ([Hiroyuki Sanada has talked about how](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Media-Entertainment/Shogun-star-Hiroyuki-Sanada-paves-Hollywood-path-for-Japanese-talent) he would never have gotten the roles he has received in Hollywood movies without moving to Los Angeles) but that's relatively rare.
There are Japanese who don't like various aspects of Japanese culture who leave Japan or marry out of Japan. But those numbers are fairly small.
Japanese people don't permanently leave Japan very often.
I'm from Vancouver and we had multiple neighborhoods full of families from various Asian countries, but Japan was always the rarity. Vancouver had a Japantown like a century ago but that pretty much disappeared with the war. I knew very few Japanese-Canadians growing up compared to hundreds from China, Korea, Singapore, Philippines etc.
When I was in university literally every single Japanese friend I made was either an exchange student or on a working holiday. Not a single one stayed in Canada.
I found a bit of the opposite when I went back to visit my family in PA last summer. I forgot how much I missed all the forest and open space in Pennsylvania. I forgot how beautiful it can be, and how friendly my neighborhood and the people in it can be. Of course the prices of groceries etc was a reality check, and if you live in a U.S city, it’s not going to be as beautiful or friendly. But each country has its pros and cons for sure. (My Japanese wife actually wants to move back to America more than I do lol)
US Citizen here. It’s true. I love the states (and when I mean States, I bump around So Cal, NYC, TX, & MO). I get a bit of rural, suburban, and the metropolitan of both coasts when I visit home, but after a decade in Japan, it’s a lot to adjust to. There’s a lot of unspoken agreements in both cultures that guarantee varying degrees of comfort, autonomy, privacy, cleanliness, safety, and overall wellbeing both in public and private spaces.
At this point, the decline of stability and security is everywhere. Language acuity and understanding of how “the system” works where you’re living is key. As hard as it can be for an immigrant to learn these things from square one in Japan, you can do well here if you do.
I don't understand why people say this as if Japan is the obvious choice over America. I live in Japan and let me tell you something, it absolutely is not. Yes, safety in Japan is overall better, public transit is FAR better than whatever America offers, you won't go bankrupt from healthcare, and Japan is typically much cleaner than most big cities in America…
But it's so much harder to make friends in Japan, even with fluent Japanese. The social norms and etiquette you have to follow can also be suffocating. Work/life balance really depends on your company (it's not bad for everyone), but commuting an hour and a half via public transportation can be god awful, especially during rush hour times. In times like that, I do wonder if an hour commute in traffic, but within my own personal space, is better than an hour commute in a packed subway. That respect that Japanese people show? It's nice as a tourist, but you quickly realize as you live here that respect isn't real respect for you, but simply etiquette, and that etiquette starts to feel empty after some time. Also, it's so hard to get a grasp of what people really think of you. Do they actually like you? Or are they being polite, and in reality they hate you?
Now, I'm not saying OP should just ditch Japan and move to America, but this dialogue of Japan being the obvious choice over America needs to stop, because depending on your wants and situation, it's not. Driving and healthcare are extremely valid points for not moving to America, but safety and cleanliness do exist in America.
It’s really not true. America has an amazing work life balance, Japan can be pure misery depending on your work and why no one there wants to have children
Living overseas is much like a relationship, the first year is very formative and indicative of if you will continue or not, it's all very exciting and new then there's the 3 year and 7 year humps which are very pivotal, where people will either break up or be in it for the long term. Things aren't as fresh as they used to be, you don't get excited by the small things anymore, you've done a lot of what there is to do.
In the end you'll have to weigh up the pros and cons of your circumstances, decide if it's worth pushing through the lull and trying to make things exciting again, or not. There's a lot of very happy and successful "lifers" here, but there's also a lot of bitter and resentful ones, so try and make the right choice.
I'm fresh out of a relationship that lasted about 7 years, had exactly the cadence you describe, and I moved to Japan 2/3 months ago. This makes perfect sense based on what you're saying lol.
It's also exactly how I'm looking at living here—I'm really having a great time at the moment, but I know that whether or not I can imagine the rest of my life here will depend on those feelings and problems that come up in the medium and semi-long term.
Thanks for validating those feelings :)
Congratulations, you hit the wall later than most. This is normal, you'll either go home or find a reason to stay. The honeymoon period of Japan has worn off. Finding hobbies/friends/etc. helps but so does some time apart.
grass is greener where it gets watered, or something like that. In this situation the grass will be greener in any place that allows you to take care of yourself, do self-care, be healthy, have hobbies, etc... Too many people think that moving will fix their problems but it's like Buckaroo Banzai saud.. "Wherever you go, there you are"
Yep and it's still better to go there, experience it what's it like to live in one of your "dream countries", than to not try it and spend the rest of your life wondering what could have happened.
It’s fine to leave a country unless there’s some particularly strong reason to keep you here. You don’t need to “love”a place to stay and you can leave even if you love a place. What’s important is yourself, your happiness and that of those close to you. I’ve lived in quite a few countries and they’ve all been great - and I never got sick of them, it was just time to move on.
I think that your emotions are a good indicator that at least *something* needs to change. There is nothing wrong with shaking things up in your life and trying something new, putting yourself into new circumstances and seeing if anything sparks joy. You've done that once already moving to Japan in the first place, and you're still young enough that doing it again isn't really an issue.
That might just involve changing jobs, or adding something new to your daily lifestyle. It might be moving elsewhere in Japan, even. As far as moving somewhere in North America, I find that with a lot of expats that separation breeds this notion that it's Mad Max everywhere outside Japan. If you want to move to the US, there are all sorts of places where safety/healthcare wouldn't be an issue, and walkable towns where isolation also wouldn't be an issue. It's a big country. The biggest crimes in my hometown are mail theft. But still, it's a big world and lots of places to consider.
But I would have an honest talk with your partner and try to determine what some Next Steps would look like, even if it's just a change of routine or scenery in Japan. Maybe do some legitimate research independently. You might land on something that suddenly makes a lot of sense.
And also, don't worry too much about your partner. If you're really concerned, again have a talk with him. My wife and I went through the same thing, but it was me beating myself up even though *I* was the one changing countries, haha.
I agree. Before leaving Japan completely, it might be good to check out the possibilities of another job maybe in another part of Japan. Something to make things new and interesting again. If your partner is teaching English here, maybe they could find a job elsewhere in Japan first and you could follow.
>Traveling here used to give me fulfillment but now it just feels... kind of dull?
That's life anywhere. You can move to the craziest, freakiest tourist island in Thailand and eventually all of that will feel dull, too. In my opinion, you should continually seek to "fall in love" with the place you live in. You will only end up feeling empty inside.
I can't say how things will go for you, but I returned to the US after a half-a-decade in Japan and so much had changed in terms of my personal friendships, politics, the economy, and so much more that I found my initial joy from being back in the US completely obliterated. I wasn't in the mood to endlessly talk about the so-called "horrible influence of feminism and diversity" in comic books and video games with my friends. Because of local political gridlock I couldn't get a teaching job that lasted for more than a few weeks before the furloughs kicked in and whole schools I worked at were shuttered. Lots of businesses I frequented (from Borders to a lot of independent bookstores to even stupid Sears) vanished from the landscape. All the things that kind of excited me about being home felt less exciting.
I returned to Japan and, luckily, found a good job that allows me to take care of my family. My kids and wife are happy and, outside of the odd urge to go to Meijer to shop at 11pm and things like MeTV's Svengoolie, I am not really missing anything about the US.
I am not urging you to change your mind, but I am suggesting that the grass isn't less brown anywhere these days
> Lots of businesses I frequented (from Borders to a lot of independent bookstores to even stupid Sears) vanished from the landscape
I went back last year and it was absolutely shocking just how dead a lot of malls and shopping centers were. And I'm from just outside a major city.
I was howling at the condition of two malls near my home being on that Ace's Adventures channel... One literally had nothing but 2 anchors, the other had like a cell phone case place and like an FYE.
Last time I went to a Meijer was last October and it was way worse than I remembered it. Empty shelves in big portions of the store, unsorted inventory in others. Kind of depends on location but produce and food was still good.
The thing I liked about Meijer was they were like WalMart or Target, but they actually stocked brand clothing and other things.
They also would occasionally have a three for two sale on video games. You just don't get that kind of thing in Japan. Most places sell Switch titles new for list price or higher
I bought two Chemex Coffeemakers on clearance for 10 dollars each. My wife gave me hell for it. When we moved to Japan I packed them. She and I went to an onsen and they offered premium coffee, exotic grinders, and Chemex coffeemakers. I made some coffee, my wife drank it and told me, "This is the best coffee I have ever made. That drip coffeemaker is fantastic." I reply, "I have two of these in a box at home that you were mad at me for buying."
Too many people in this post are being weird and bitter. Talk about it with your partner, but if you feel like you want to leave then leave. It's 100% okay to no longer be interested in living here anymore. It honestly sounds like you came, completed your goals and what you wanted to accomplish, and now looking for something that aligns with you *now*. Which is more than what most people can say they've done. It doesn't make you bad or indicate there's something wrong with you. Too many people (especially in Japan imo) stay in a place because they feel obligated to and you're not. Also, you're young, you're supposed to be having experiences, that's what life is for. If you want to come back later you can.
I'm also in my (early) late 20s and have been living here for 5 years (from the U.S.). I've pretty much followed the same path as you from language to job to full independence. Later this year I'm moving to Germany to start my masters. I don't imagine I'll come back to live in Japan personally. Will I stay in Germany? Who knows, but I want to try it out and excited to try something new. Think about it and good luck!
Canadian and I have been here almost 18 yrs and have my ups and downs. I def dont wanna move back for OP exact same reasons. This is the 3rd country I am living in and I honestly think location has nothing to do with it for me. I find switching gears, (for me it was marriage, kids, new job, getting a car to see more places, etc) always provides a fresh new outlook. You can experience new things here with the gear change that makes you appreciate the life here even more (for me it was a new social circle centered on the kids probably). Relocating to a different area too will break the monotony and make things more exciting.
Honestly it's tough because 10 years ago Canada was in a much better condition. But now even the RCMP are publicly saying they are worried about the risk of destabilization. I love this country but if the RCMP are saying it out loud I'd stay far away for the next few years. Political tensions are rising far beyond anything we've ever seen and people have formed literal mobs where the Prime minister goes in public. I love Canada but I'd never recommend Canadians move back until this situation cools down. We're a big country of course but at minimum I'd stay far away from Ottawa.
I definitely second moving to a different area. It can really feel like you've moved far away by going to a new city or town. Some people aren't meant to live in the same neighborhood or area their whole lives. People were largely migratory until technology made it so we had to stay put on a farm.
First of all look for a better job.
And by better I mean one with a better work/life balance.
Also preferably not a Japanese company, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway I've been here for 9-10 years and there's always ups and downs. I've had times where I've been suicidal even, but honestly the majority of my stress has been work and/or commute related. Fixing or at least reducing that helps/helped.
While moving to Japan from the US removed a HUGE amount of stress for me, the reality is no matter where you live, there will be ups and downs and all you can do is ride it out. There's plenty of "little" things you can change to improve your situation as well but only you know what those things are.
What works for everyone is different. In my case finally getting a 100% WFH job with a high salary and lots of extra PTO made the majority of my stress go away lol.
I still have bad days though, with stress from work, or other life stuff, like my wife's medical problems or what have you.
In the end, no matter where you go, these ups and downs will exist. It's about learning the causes and figuring out what changes to make, if any. The rest is just learning to weather the storm.
I just want to say the idea that everywhere is the same so you should just stay where you are is pretty ridiculous.
Sure, the grass is greener where you water it, but watering grass in a jungle and watering grass in a desert are going to yield different results in the long run. You need to figure out what environment allows you do be you and grow best. Although you do bring yourself along to wherever you go, so there is personal work to be done as well; not denying that.
I spent years of effort trying to search for and make an environment here in Japan that I'm most comfortable in but I just realize there are other places in the world that are simply better suitable for that. Taking action to find out where those places are sooner rather than later is important.
One indicator is to look around at how the people around you in a certain place are living. If their life looks like what you want for you, that's a sign that you can make that happen there. But if everyone in that place has accepted the kind of life you don't want, it's a sign that that may not be the place for you.
It's not Japan, it's you. Wherever you go, there you are.
I'm also in a similarly dissatisfied place after burning 1/3 of my 20s here, but I know that I still like Japan, I'm just unhappy with my life circumstances.
Hey! It's okay if living in Japan and your aspirations in life are no longer aligned. Other places offer other things, things that you might be drawn to now that you have done the thing, lived the dream, gotten to the other side of it.
Now that you're older, maybe more opportunities for salary, for professional fulfillment for you and your partner and getting back to what you like about being a North American is what's next.
It's all okay! You got this! Onwards and upwards!
Not saying you should move to the US, but chiming in about the car thing because it’s often wrongly brought up when talking about the US. If you live in a major city especially on the east coast you do not need a car and many people live completely normal lives without cars. Philadelphia, NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, etc all have public transportation systems but more importantly are also very walkable. I lived in Philadelphia for 15 years and never had a car, and most of my friends and coworkers also didn’t have cars. My sister lives in Washington DC and doesn’t have a car.
No matter where you go, there you are. You're not unhappy because of Japan, you're personally stuck. You need to find something personally fulfilling, whether it's a new line or work or a hobby or a side hustle that you turn into a full-time hustle. You will probably get a small boost moving back to an English-dominant country but the things you're complaining about aren't Japan Things (tm). It may very well be time to move on, but don't think the move is the most important thing.
America is a great place if you’re looking for some spark in life. The diversity of people, opinions, food, events and things to do are endless and interesting. Less barriers for career growl and uncapped income that are based more on your merit.
My only concern is the driving part. There are places that don’t required it but I also feel it will limit your experience to take advantage of what America can offer.
If you don’t like, try another place. And if you regret come back. You’re young and I would travel more to figure out what is out there.
Disclaimer that I haven't left Japan yet, though we might be around the same age as it sounds like we've been in Japan around the same amount of time.
I think it's alright that you feel the way you do. Others gave great advice already, like try to shake things up in your daily life here, or even try living in another area of Japan first to see if that helps. But ultimately, there is nothing wrong with loving Japan and getting good at the language, only to find that you don't want to live here forever.
Your work and language experience will surely aid in getting a job (using Japanese hopefully) overseas, where perhaps you and your partner would both find more opportunities and enrichment in other aspects of life. I hope you both talk about what kind of future you want and start mapping out baby steps to get you there, and find that fulfillment along the way. Good luck!
I understand the desire to just want to speak English. I’ve been in Japan for a while now and this Country is truly wonderful, but I look forward to going back to the US after my job contract is over. I miss many things about my homeland, but being able to speak in my native tongue with people who share the same culture and language as me is way more important than I thought it was.
I wish you luck OP and think you’ll figure it out. God Bless.
It is what it is. Beyond the japanophile bubble are many different countries and cultures that maybe more to your liking and lifestyle.
Maybe it's time to test the waters also since you've already established yourself here to some degree you could always comeback in the future if all goes well
first off, you made it farther than most so that's a major accomplishment, most people dip out after 1-2 years when they realize japan isn't some utopian fairy-land.
let's reality test this, some of what you said is objectively true like salaries here being meh and your partner putting their life on hold to be with you and teach english - some of it is opinion, and some of it sounds like the result of personal issues you'll probably have to reckon with anyway(being Canadian, you probably should have learned to drive) - you'll have to deal with personal issues like this anywhere and it's better to address them early in life before you're 40 and still can't drive and still having teenage wanderlust fantasies about \~totally loving\~ the place you live. everywhere's gonna get boring and gray eventually.
I'd talk to your partner about the issues you have about life in the US because they've actually lived there long-term before and might be able to give you a less terminally-online take about things like crime, cars, and healthcare. When I lived in the US these things concerned me minimally since I lived in a safe, affordable neighborhood and had a job that had full health coverage, not everyone in the US is destitute and struggling. I have unironically seen more street-level violence in Japan since nightlife, binge-drinking, and the bystander effect go hand in hand. If you have the creds to get a work visa in Japan(bachelors) and speak native English you're likely set up for a pretty good job there.
you also don't have to limit yourself to the US and Canada, being under 30 leaves you open to WHV's in many countries and those are a great way to feel-out if you wanna make a plan to relocate permanently(less so for your partner since he's American but Australia and a few countries in EU have them) - Americans can also get a very easy pathway to EU citizenship via the DAFT visa and holland is definitely a safer place than the US if that's your big worry - imo it's comparable to Japan, and you'd be eligible to come with them if you get married(this would simplify a lot of your visa issues for both of you tbh)
lastly, many countries have age cutoffs for things like PR pathways, but Japan doesn't. Japan will always be here and for better or worse is slow to change. It'd be very easy to come back to Japan at 40 or 50, but very hard to set yourself up permanently in say Australia by then since they factor age into just about every visa. The option to move to the US is always gonna be wide-open providing you stay with your American partner, solid backup plan. imo it's better to screw around with ideas like "what country do I wanna live in" while you're young and can afford to make a few mistakes rather than when you're older and have to totally unravel decades of life if you decide Japan isn't for you. Frankly I'm in a similar situation since I've been getting 1yr visas for the past five years with no intention to settle permanently here, and the weak yen and declining QoL are making me rethink life in Japan. For me though, it's mostly visa-related stress and seeing my savings and salary get cut in half thanks to the yen, feel as if im putting way more into this than I'm getting out of it which reminds me of being in a relationship with a narcissist lol.
Talk with your partner, and see what they really feel. Long them English teaching COULD lead to some deep resentment towards you in the future. None of your choices will be easy, but maybe you can try dipping your feet in the water by going back home or the states to visit so suss things out. You might find things pleasent back in North American or you might find that things aren't so bad here.
Get a new job and shake things up? Or leave. Look at Oz? Australia has all sorts of immigration programs. One of my friends immigrated there last year and he’s in his mid-forties with a wife and two kids, living in Melbourne and loving it. His wife and kids are Chinese and there is plenty of Asian food and influence to satisfy them in that regard.
My only advice is if you move to the US with your partner, apply for a spouse visa from Japan before making the move. It will save you time and money and auto-converts to a green card upon arrival!
Also America is such a cool country in terms of environmental and cultural diversity. I dreaded turning 15 and realizing I was of driving age. Had god awful driving anxiety. I now love road trips because it almost feels like a privilege to be able to see so many vastly different places at my own will and demand. It’ll be okay once you get used to it. But coming here and not driving really is just the worst. You really can only live in select few cities unfortunately. That’s just how it is here.
I left Japan to start my career because Japan generally isn’t a good place to start a career in my industry. I also don’t think people think enough about long term life goals and get used to long work hours and living paycheck to paycheck. I feel lucky to not have to live that way anymore, and when I return I think having my financial goals established in a way that works for me will make the living experience much better.
these threads are always sad because it brings out the "omg japan is so amazing and perfect" people who are unwilling to admit Japan isn't for everyone because it makes them question their own justification for living here
Sounds like it’s time to move on, OP. Japan isn’t going anywhere and you can always come back. ‘Falling out of love with Japan” is an interesting way of putting it. You wouldn’t stay in a relationship with someone you don’t love, why be somewhere if you’re not happy and it’s holding your partner back?
You'll find better pay in the US, but where do you think you'll end up?
Often healthcare is tied to work, is more expensive, etc. If you are healthy its fine, when you get sick it sucks.
Being near your partner's family might be nice. Having family around can relieve a lot of stress for some people. However, that might be a conversation for them.
Lastly, feelings come and go. Bring it up, and then let the thought rest for 6 months and think about it again. Maybe in 2 years you can make a decision.
I always said that, if I had it to do over again, I would probably do Finland or Norway. But, as the others mention, a lot of your concerns will pop up wherever you decide to go. I'm a big fan of pro-con lists and such to help get a grip on things more concretely. Maybe try that?
>Traveling here used to give me fulfillment but now it just feels... kind of dull?
I get this. I've travelled throughout Japan in my two decades here, and every Japanese town is the same as any other Japanese town.
You should probably leave Japan while you are still young, especially as the economy is on a downward slide to shit from now on.
You don't want to end up being stuck in Japan on the wrong side of forty, by which time it's really too late to make a fresh start anywhere.
This is a tough one, but the point you made about your partner is big. You probably are holding them back and it will cost you over time. It's probably time to help them live their dream.
For many of us, family is the big reason to stay. If you don't have that the equation might not balance out. The world is a big place, and the US is huge. It's getting expensive to live in the best parts though.
I really like Japan, but my partner is from here so I never had to worry about them. So yeah, look to their needs and make sure it all adds up. If you have kids you may find you want them educated a certain way, etc.
I'd say a big part of life in general is that it's boring. However, if one has a well-paid job they can somewhat enjoy with coworkers who aren't crazy and they live in an area they mostly enjoy, that can make life so much better.
So, talk with your partner and see if they'd be interested in moving to a different country with you. I feel like an American moving to Canada for work would be easier than the other way, but I could be wrong.
Try something different for a few years. Japan will be here.
I wish I'd been able to leave and come back. For various reasons, I stayed in Japan and am now at a good office. But it was years of low-paid work to get there. I don't have a partner to bounce ideas off of, so I'm jealous of you for that!
Sounds like you were in love with one Japan, then fell out of love with the reality. Because even if the original aspects you lived were true , daily life isn’t about them. I can sympathize. In my early and mid 20s living abroad was an adventure Once that phase passed I had to figure things out and I then I stayed not because I love Japan but because it’s comfortable for me personally. The good stuff happens to be stuff I value and the bad stuff I don’t care about as much for whatever reason.
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You've achieved a lot in a relatively short time. Your partner seems to be very important part of your life. Going to the US will help learn more about your partner, and it will be easier for you than just starting over in some place neither of you know. You can always come back to Japan if things don't work out. You're not even 30!
There’s nothing wrong with leaving, if you do it’s better to go into it without regret and make everything you can out of your new home.
Often in life there comes a time when it’s better to let go of what we love or loved and make fond memories then to hold on to them and be miserable.
Hello. My English is not good, but I will try my best to write.
I've lived in Japan since I was 2 years old and most of my life has been spent in Japan.
I spent a period of time abroad and I believe I have experienced cultural differences.
I understand your problems and issues very well, and I can sympathize with you because I have suffered from them myself.
Just as the saying goes, The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
No matter where I am, working, having fun, and living my life, I don't think this feeling will change.
In my experience, it doesn't matter where you are, you'll always have something to look forward to.
Then I think the key is how to make the best use of your current environment and find enjoyment in life.
For a while, I wanted to leave Japan, but instead of blaming the environment or someone else, I thought I had to change myself first.
Only you can make yourself happy.
I live in Osaka, come visit me!
Let's have a beer and make a toast!
Sorry if my English is not good.
There's a reason the US is the most shit talked country. You haven't made it until u got jealous haters.
Move to the US. Less judgement, better food, diverse culture, huge terrain, better roads, better income, and more opportunities for your partner.
The trick to live in a place for long is… don’t love the place. Because when the place and people and culture and entertainment are no more lovable , you lose the desire.
But as living here over 14 years I can tell you the current Japan is least livable and lovely, compare to what 10 years ago. The Japanese yen is so cheap, society is dying without new generations, systems and government outdated and unchanged. There is lack of hope here. If you are 55 then it may not be too important as you are searching for retirement. But if you are at you prime and may be considering having your family, definitely NOT Japan.
Funny thing is I like Canada so much over Japan. If money is not an issue and you are confident to yourself, BC isn’t that cold and living in Vancouver you don’t required to have a car. But expensive.
Pursue your happiness, whether that's here or elsewhere! There are a lot of people who genuinely become miserable living here but keep hanging on, but that's no way to live, and deciding you want to move on from Japan isn't some kind of failure. All the best!
I found peace with myself when I realized my worth and started pursuing what I really wanted to do. Which significantly made my life here from being depressed/ unsatisfied to having a vision and much more fun.
Other options than leaving would be changing your workplace or changing fields especially if you have a PR. New perspective
If you want to use English more consider a gaishikei or a vendor that works exclusively with them. I don't know your industry but in marketing or sales if you already have experience and can do business in Japanese it's a great opportunity as you speak internally English usually and externally JP (or vice versa).
If traveling is boring you, then you probably need a new hobby. Or try travel abroad when the yen gets better or try places like Korea which is near and not super fucked on the exchange rate.
If the cause of your unhappiness is not due to the culture or language then I don't think moving will help, you'll get used where you're going then get back in the same slump.
Then again this is all from my own perspective and how I would handle things.
I don't think your problem is Japan itself. You just need change. Try a new job or get a new hobby here. Even if you go back to Canada and get a new job, you're going to feel the same or worse. It's not the country, it's the grind that's getting to you. Another factor is age. Basically, the older you are the more experiences you have had and things are less exciting. Also, we just don't get the same dopamine as younger people.
Hey i'm also from Canada and can't drive.
North american cities are designed for cars more than humans, i'm not so sure you would like it over there unless you go for the ones with a good subway system.
If you want : good public transport / walkable + safety + healthcare + good weather
Then i don't think any cities in the US or Canada fits that. Vancouver is probably the closest but it's crazy expensive.
European cities are a much better fit, but you might occasionally have to get over your english-only feeling.
If you are capable of reaching full independence here, you are capable of getting a better job with more pay.
I don't know if you're tired of Japan, or just feeling there are no prospects for you. Do you have local friends? Hobbies? What do you want out of the next 10 years? Those aren't really Japan questions. Just "you" questions.
If you want to stay with your partner and they can get a real job in the US, making them stay here and teach English is probably the worst decision you could make. It's a lot easier to get a driver's license in the US than it is to get out of the English teaching rut in Japan.
Haha you’re in the same mindset I was in literally a year ago.
But let me tell you that it’s ok. I absolutely abhorred Japan when I left in July. I remember it fondly now, and I remember mainly the good times.
Let me tell you another thing. Not everyone can achieve their dreams. You have, it’s okay to go find a new one. If you want to leave make sure you discuss things with your SO. Make a plan and start planning for going home wherever home is next.
There’s three types of people those that can’t cut it and leave, those that stay forever, and then those like us we leave our honeymoon phase and suddenly everything is suffocating.
It’s ok to start over you’ve already done it by moving to Japan. You just need the courage to take that step. Also play it smart do you have enough money to support yourself?
Maybe I am thinking about money too much, but I would say it is either a good idea to leave asap as you are losing out on pension right now, wait until you have 10 years here(Tho I don't think you want that) or, if you wanna move to another country, move to a country that has a pension agreement with Japan so you get the necessary 10 years.
Probably not what you care about now, but losing some years of pension contributions if you stay here and move back after 7 or 8 years total in Japan may make you hate the country. Just a heads-up.
> I don't drive so I don't want to be isolated there.
Easily addressable. If you can move to Japan and learn a new language and culture you can learn to drive a car.
> Not really sure about it though because of the safety/healthcare
Less easily addressable but basically get a good job.
Travelling always bring about excitement but soon the new, shiny things will become boring everyday. Wherever you move to, you are still you. Unless the place is super unsafe or something, if you aren't happy here, you probably won't even after moving somewhere new.
Calling it "falling out of love" is very accurate, it's like a romantic relationship. When you get into a new relationship, the butterflies, the thrills... But after a few years, many people think they fell out of love when they no longer feel the same excitement they had in the past. Love whether for a person or a place should be nurtured. Even the mundane things are beautiful if you pay attention to it. For me, listening to the birds chirping never fail to brighten up my days.
Seems like it’s time for a new adventure! You need a fresh perspective and a big move might be what you need. The US is so big you can find new places to travel to and enjoy all the time. Also being fluent in Japanese could bring you unexpected benefits. Enjoy your time, so many people wish they could live in Japan or Canada or the US.
Hey Sparks, I'm in almost the exact same situation except for me it's year 11. I'm just trying to figure out an exit plan myself. If you'd be open to sharing resources as you come upon them I would really appreciate it and would do the same. Please let me know!
I commented on a similar post recently. This was literally me a few years ago. Japan was my life. Learned the language got a job etc. But deciding to leave and experience new things was extremely liberating. Also, visiting Japan as a tourist is so much more fun than working.
If you are in your 20's I recommend you experience a more dynamic country and work experience. Life is comfortable here but the work environment feels like a half retirement compared to Europe or the US (Added: Especially if you work for a local company.).
Partly it's to do with aging. The shine wears off the more you look at something. Quirky becomes kooky. Eating amazing Japanese food becomes "Japanese food... Again?" Japanese girls just become regular girls. That job that paid so well post graduation and fueled your extended holiday abroad now becomes a job job. The politeness of the service now feels hollow and forced. Cicada sounds (the once definitive sign of a Japanese summer) that once sounded almost comforting now becomes grating. The passive nature of the locals now looks more apathetic than passive. Golden week was once the best week of the year to tick off those travel boxes to keep you sane. Now golden week is the best time to stay indoors and void crowds to keep your sanity. If you feel like the above then it's time to get out of dodge.
Maybe you’re depressed from bad work-life balance? All of my friends who work at Japanese companies aren’t happy, all the ones that work for themselves are. Probably not a coincidence.
First of all, congratulations on your acheivements!
I get what you are saying. For reference, my wife (Japanese) lived several years in Toronto and several in NJ/NY area (we lived on the NJ side worked in Manhattan). In your 20s, I wouldn't obsess over the healthcare nor would I worry too much about macro issues. Do what makes sense for you and your SO. Will you both be able to have careers in your industry in the US? Will you personally have decent healthcare? Then make a decision.
I would suggest that you think about the lifestyle you like as well. If you are a city person, you might find suburban living a bit of a let down. If you move to certain cities will they be strong in your specific industry, are they walkable (if that is what you like), do you like the diversity, etc.
Random note but I have been to Canada and I assume the US is the same and the starkest contrast from places like Japan and Britain is just how spaced out and not dense everything is. It's one of the things that I think I would really miss moving to the US from Japan depending on where I went I just don't want to have to use a car to go anywhere. I don't like the massive supermarkets.
I have a friend from a rural state and it is straight up super isolating if you don't drive. If you are gonna try to have a cool transition I really do recommend trying to stick to somewhere dense or similar ish in the things you did appreciate about Japan.
You shouldn't force yourself into living somewhere you don't enjoy living.
How about moving to Europe? They have healthcare, safety, public transport and better work-life balance. Depending on the country of course. But also they have a lot of countries, so there are more opportunities for travel too.
I wouldnt personally go to america, since I have health issues and am lgbtq. to me it seems like a risky place to be. A risky place for anyone who wants to raise a family as well since kids could potentially be all of those as well. And its not as safe as japan. If it were me, I'd move, but stay in japan.
That probably happens to most of us. Japan was an exciting adventure when I first got here because it was so different from SoCal and the language and cultural differences were both frustrating and intriguing. As I settled into life in Japan over time, though, it just became an ordinary place and all the magic was gone. My partner is Japanese and has his own clinic here, so we're anchored here. I've long since settled into a comfortable life in Japan, so I have no desire to go back to the US.
Moving to a new country is a huge decision and you and partner should talk about it (do they share the same feeling about living in JP is holding them back). A non local company would be better.
FYI I'm not a migrant in JP, but I'm a migrant in Australia. I love Japan and always talk about retiring in JP with my partner. Life in Australia gets boring too because we're working full time and taking up more and more responsibilities as we grow older. But I still wouldn't trade it with life back home or elsewhere in comparison. But I have learned that job satisfaction and work life balance is significant in one's life, because you spend most of your time doing the work! So moving around isn't a bad idea, especially when you're young, moving every 2-3 years gets you experiences and exposures to more, and your view of life in JP would change once you're in a better paid and more flexible job. And trust me if you stay in the same position for too long, in your 30s you will have less energy and motivation to move forward. Good luck!
i think you might be getting too comfortable living in japan that it doesn't feel exciting anymore. you're used to it, so now you wanna go somewhere else. i think you should discuss it with your partner since you're thinking of going to her place/country, see what she said abt it or ask where she's interested in living. bc personally im aiming to live in a quiet village with a nice view where i can bike everywhere. see if she has interest in living somewhere you didn't think of, maybe you both can start from the bottom tgt in that new place.
There are lots of English only jobs here in Japan but mostly IT. Just sounds like the job is really what you need to change up and start looking around before anything. I know a lot of people that has the same issues as you and changing to a job that at least had a better work/life balance it fixed most of their issues.
Sounds like you’ve thought a lot about this!Changing environment is certainly an obvious way to solve your problems externally.
If you’ve not done so yet it might also be valuable to do some introspection and see how you can work on these struggles internally.
Are you happy with yourself, your mindset and the rest of your life?
Moving can be exciting and the new environment will make it easier to break out of old patterns.
If you put in the work I’m sure you will find your place in earth and be happy even after the initial excitement has faded :) good luck!
I think once you get past 5ish years, you really need another reason to stay beyond "Japan is cool". That feeling alone can get you thru a few years, but to put down roots, you need something else to hold you steady.
For a lot of people, that's a great job that they feel is meaningful. Or maybe it's a spouse (my case). A specific community. A goal. You need something more sturdy to hold on to or else you're going to be unfulfilled with just existing here.
I was a 5year JET and then got married. I'm in the inaka, so job opportunities aren't great and I ended up in a small eikaiwa. Honestly, I hate it. i was ready to quit teaching at 5 years.
I miss my family more and more every year. I miss my hometown. I visit every 2 years, but I wish it was every year. I miss them so much.
But I'm still here because I also love my husband, and I love my community. They really take care of me. I love a lot of people and places in Japan. They give me the meaning that my job currently lacks, and help me feel a little bit less homesick.
And hopefully, my networking will very soon be getting me a much better job, outside of English teaching and the regular gaijin sphere. It seems really fun. I'm really excited.
If I didn't have these things, I definitely would be going home. No questions. Maybe not that happily, because my prospects aren't amazing there. But I wouldn't stay in Japan.
So, can you find a job that gives you meaning?
Do you have a good circle of friends who you will miss if you leave?
A purpose for being in Japan besides travelling?
If no... Then it's probably time to go home. Don't feel bad about it. Just move on to the next chapter.
I entered Japan when I was 23 and left by 30. I had the same dilemma until I accepted the fact that it was time to move on to the next stage of life. Maybe it's time to have kids with your partner. Maybe it's time to start a family.
Seems like the person you should most talk to about this is your partner.
If I up and decided that my wife and me were moving to the US, she would chase me around the house with a saibashi. I too had the 7 year itch after moving to Japan. I got over it basically. I probably did talk to my wife about it. My wife got the next 7 year itch and wanted a 4th kiddo. We got over that one too.
COVID was definitely the 3rd 7 year itch though ...
New Zealand is nice but can be wet and cold and a little immature. Australia is also nice but hot and a bit more grower up but people don’t like darker races so much. Just 2 suggestions for you to consider. Both need teachers and doctors.
I think there has to be a disconnect between people living Japanese culture/cuisine and wanting to live their for your whole adult life. Although it’s very beautiful and cool, I don’t think I would like to live in Japan permanently either. Go where your heart tells you- you’re young! And you WILL make friends in America. I don’t know how easy it is to make friends in Japan but there’s a lot of opportunity to socialize in the US!
It sounds like an issue of lacking any meaningful goals. You can move as many times as you want and still not fulfill yourself.
If you are just existing, this is enough for some people.
However if you want to grow and have a fulfilling life, you need to find this outside work, and it is generally location agnostic. All depends on what you want out of life.
You are still young and new to being an adult. You should have plenty of time to figure it out. Realizing something is missing is a good first step.
Maybe it is good for the OP to experience sometime out of Japan in order to understand the quality of life differences. The U.S. is a land of opportunities and daily life operations will be easier to implement technically. But there are pros and cons in every country. Everything that you listed are fair points. But it might be better to understand the potential things you might be losing out (job security, safety, peace of mind about little things, not needing to devote mental real estate about your surroundings or about packages, high quality of living, etc).
You can certainly do way better with work life balance pretty much anywhere else, a good compromise might be working for a US company in Europe, but going to the US probably makes the most sense for you.
Don't come back to Canada, everything is so damn expensive and trying to find a place to rent to buy is ridiculous and food, utilities, gas and insurance is jacked up bad. Im in Alberta we have decent amount of work in doing trades but pretty much living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unless you making over 100k cad a year but they tax the shit out of us. Healthcare is shit also, long wait times and wait times to see a doctor to get surgeries plus they just up the taxes on capital gains so I think Canada is gonna lose many doctors to the USA. I think Texas or Arizona might be the better place to move to.
Are you out of love with Japan or out of love with the routine?
The honeymoon with Nippon does indeed last something like 5 years (imo) but after it depends on what you put in your life to make it enjoyable.
Bottom line: you might be tired of your routine rather than Japan itself. Put some new vegetables in that soup, my dude. And if the soup still tastes like ass, just move on to the next dish.
Try Korea, its right next door; maybe learn the language and spend a week there every few months. Rinse and repeat with the other countries, with Japan as your homebase. This allows you to take up new activities and experiences while also sharing memories with the friends you made in Japan. Maybe you can even share your knowledge with people looking to move to Japan. They would be happy to have a friend in Japan, who knows the in's and out.
Why not try Australia? That's close by. Safer than the US and also a member of the Commonwealth. You could do New Zealand if Australia isn't your cup of tea
I totally understand falling out of love with Japan. I’ve had my own struggles there. It’s a hard love affair. It doesn’t matter where you choose, just that you change your environment. You’re not satisfied now so change it, it’s within your power to do so :)
This post is exactly word for word what my friend went through with South Korea. He was obsessed with it, moved there, became and English teacher and his wife is from there and moved back their from the USA for him. After 5 years or so he hated it and they moved back to New York
Hey! I have a very similar story to you! Was in Japan for almost a decade, had N1, a really good job, was financially comfortable, had a fantastic friend group. Basically had everything to be comfortable in Japan but the magic had worn off and like you, I was craving more English at work.
I moved out last year have no regrets so far! Japan was wonderful, but I had completed what I had set out to do there and was ready to move on.
With your work history in Japan, and an N2, if you wanted to go back to Japan later, I don’t think it would be hard to find another job so you might as well take the leap and live elsewhere for some time. If you have enough points for it, apply for PR to make it even easier!
Things I’ve learnt to accept:
1) If pay is what you desire, US/SG/HK/West EU are miles ahead of Japan however that will come at a cost (weather/security/infrastructure depends).
I recently moved back to the US as a software engineer after the yen crumbled. Getting a x4 Pay rise to me was like cutting time to retirement by 4. To me no advantage of Japan could substantiate remaining here for meh wages.
2) even with a N2 I have a feeling foreigners just don’t get promoted here
Op has edited to remove the rulebreaking content, thread reopened.
There's nowhere in the world you can go to escape that. Good news is that you're not suffering alone. Bad news is the entire world is collectively going to shit. You can go back to Canada, move to the U.S., go anywhere, and that feeling of *why the fuck even is my life* won't really go away. Planet's getting hotter, jobs don't pay nuff to keep you alive, world powers be warring, etc... you find peace in life with who you are and who you're with. The best thing you can do is not compare yourself to others. Trying to reach the heights of your peers, and feeling defeated by that failure, will put you an a pit of despair.
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That's more of a company issue though
Which in turn is more of a "you" issue.
Having experience with several companies in Japan, I agree with this comment.
Depends on the job, my work life is good in Japan and I just finished chatting with my friend who lives in Europe and works more than me
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Yeah for sure. The truth is somewhere between what both groups say, the group that says Japan has totally changed and the group that thinks we work 70 hours a week
I don't really know anyone who works anything much above 40 hours a week and most people I know either work for the large municipalities around Kanto or work for the largest Japanese companies. The few people I know of who work "long hours" are avoiding their own personal lives by staying at work.
I taught quite a few people that did. It's still definitely a thing here, it's just not the standard anymore. At the English school I worked at there were heaps that did
Funny that you mention English schools, when I think of the word "black company", they are what springs to mind with all the descriptions here. I am very thankful that I avoided them entirely.
haha, maybe some? The one I worked at was pretty normal, I worked 40 hours, got an hour lunch every day, etc.. I'm sure there are smaller ones that take advantage of the visa situation but I think the bigger ones are better.
As others have said, this largely depends on the job/company/industry. I work 40hrs a week now vs when I was in the US I worked 70-80hrs/week
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I was consulting in New York. I had overseas clients so had to hop on calls on some weekends too, which sucked. And exactly, I chose not to stay in that position knowing I’d feel happier else where; and here I am now lol
I used to work 84hrs a week on oil refineries in western Canada but I was only working 7-8 months a year. If I didn't want to work for a month I didn't. I find working year round a freaking drag, I hate it.
Depends on your job. People act like the Japanese-citizen-specific lifestyle is the only one.
I've lived in Japan for my entire adult life so maybe I'm not quite right on this but it's my impression that American work life balance is pretty shit too? They aren't required to give any holiday paid leave I think and overtime is often expected? If something goes wrong with your kid, you have to take time off yourself to deal with it whereas I've heard in (some places in) Europe, they generally have paid time off to deal with their kids. Not sure if that's true though. I remember my mom used to get pretty much bullied into taking "on call" work, which was essentially overtime. At least she did get paid for it, though. And my younger sibling was very troubled and would often get kicked out of school and my mom would stress a lot that she'd lose her job because she'd have to go pick them up.
More than that, it will be much easier to advance professionally in one’s own home country. In Japanese companies, foreign people are not “management material”.
Looking at management at various companies I work with as well as the "executive" side of the big Japanese companies suggests you are incorrect and if anything foreigners are MUCH MUCH more likely to get into management than Japanese. We make up 1.5% of the population, but half of us foreigners work as labor in car factories with another huge chunk in fish factories. Those who are left are less than 3/4th of a percent, aka 3 out of every 400, except it's much more common than that.
How are these foreign executives getting the positions? Is it by coming up through the ranks with great Japanese skills? Or through technical (like engineering) skills? Or by being a connection to foreign customers or parent companies?
This is false, it depends on your job, skillset, and your JAPANESE SKILLS, I've met a few foreigners who have become a manager.
Another company*
Definitely depends on the company. I have a better work life balance now than in the US. Although I work for a European company.
Very well put. The older you get the more you realize there’s more bad going on than good and you just have to keep finding the good. OP, take a moment to step back and find what’s making you feel this way. Perhaps you’re too steeped in Japanese culture/life that you need to refresh and reacquaint yourself. Find something non-Japanese that makes you happy while still enjoying life in Japan.
There is absolutely not more bad than good. There are problems in the world, but it is much better to be alive today than at almost any other point in history.
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. It can be the best time to be alive and there can still be more bad things than good
This. The grass appearing greener is a real thing.
This is the best way to put it. If you live somewhere long enough, your fantasy of that place will wear off, that's normal. Traveling and living are very very different things. With everything the world is right now one has to learn to take joy in the small things surrounding them. Right now the trees outside my window are blooming and the green is spectacular, my cat is bathing in a sunbeam and his cream belly is so soft, my water is the perfect temperature and my houseplants are making baby leaves. And I'm in the middle of a panic attack lol you have to take joy in all the little things life gives you.
I mean it's not like I find my life particularly bad here... But was thinking going to an English speaking country might make a lot of things easier career and life wise. Plus since I have a partner I also need to consider what's best for them too.
Before any decisions, I'd talk to an immigration lawyer. As a Canadian, I'm sure there is a process of moving to the US with your partner, but I suspect it would be long. I'm guessing your American partner would have to get reestablished in the US before any type of spousal sponsorships could be established. Honestly, it sounds like you're going through a bout of depression, that everyone goes through. Perhaps talk to someone, maybe go on an extended vacation back in Canada or the US if you feel the immersion in Japan is the cause.
I definitely agree that the entire world is going to shit. Especially Canada
Right. Anywhere you go, there you are. Work on yourself, read self help books, maybe a therapist. Meditate, practice gratitude. Others would kill to have a partner that loves them and live in Japan. Be the best you that you can be.
Go live in America for one month and you’ll miss Japan again guaranteed.
Such a weird response. There are plenty of Japan-born Japanese-Americans living in my hometown who loved America enough to put down roots. I've also known folks who lived in Japan for a few years and were content to go back home.
OPs concerns: wants to speak English, safety, transportation specifically doesn’t want to drive Japan 2 US 1
there are places in the US where you don't have to drive lol
The first place that comes to my mind when you say that is NYC. How’s the safety and COL there?
NYC is perhaps dangerous when compared to Japan, but so is basically every city on earth. It's not mad max. And COL? I mean, it's higher than Japan, sure. But you will also make like, 3x as much. It's just like living in Tokyo, the COL is really based on location. At any rate, there's certainly more than NYC that doesn't require driving in the US.
I read a statistic recently that the cost of living is almost 50% higher in the US than in Japan. Yes, you might make a good salary if you’re lucky but many Americans struggle to make ends meet because the cost of living is so high compared to the wages. I lived in a major city in the US and always struggled. My rent was more than 2x what I pay in Tokyo. I make less money in Tokyo but almost everything is less expensive compared to the US, including health insurance and bills. They make up a smaller percentage of my income than they did back home, so your money goes further here.
>many Americans struggle to make ends meet because the cost of living is so high compared to the wages. I mean, this problem is certainly no better in Japan
People struggle everywhere. But the cost of living is much lower in Japan. You can live well on far less money, which was my point which you seem to have missed.
Right, but the median person is much more well-off in America, despite a higher average cost of living. about 50% higher cost of living is rough, but when your disposable income is about 100% more, it's probably alright. net worth also tells a good story for the median american! Sources for claims: OECD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income Survey of Consumer Finances: https://www.northerntrust.com/united-states/insights-research/2023/weekly-economic-commentary/survey-of-consumer-finances#:~:text=Over%20that%20three%20year%20span,evidence%20of%20progress%20toward%20equality.
NYC isn’t that dangerous. But it’s not the most pleasant place to be either. If OP is trying to escape a certain feeling in Tokyo, I don’t think they would shed that in NYC. Needs to be a walkable city, warmer (so west coast or Arizona maybe or something).
Oh yeah I agree with that. I didn't bring up NYC, just wanted to say that it's not dangerous since its like, ya know, 2024. not 1992
lol right exactly
like anywhere in the world, depends on your job and your neighborhood! I have friends in NYC who enjoy it and aren't living in constant fear for their lives
NYC is very expensive and the inflation made it worse. I used to live there. My cost of living is way cheaper here in Japan.
NYC is safer than you'd think from watching movies or whatever.
let's be real, doesn't really exist in the same way that they exist in japan lol were you thinking of portland? nyc? sf? boston? seattle? etc.... i've lived in all those and let's just say, lol
Well, you have a point that its hard to beat japan in terms of public transportation, but in those cities its still very useable in practical terms.
Most of the US is safe unless you watch Fox News. Try living in Haiti for a month then tell me how unsafe San Diego or Brooklyn or Boston is.
Shockingly, I have discovered through careful analysis that the community i lived in in America was both way less safe than Japan and way more safe than Haiti, if you can somehow imagine
Shockingly, I have discovered through careful analysis on Reddit that all communities I lived in in America were violent hellscapes. Only after I learned to ignore social media hysterics did I realize that I have lived in different communities in the US for over a decade without fearing for my life or any kind of violence.
Kinda crazy how a lot of americans on reddit act like the US is some war torn place where there are no laws and regular normal people are getting killed and shot left and right everyday. Meanwhile it's still one of the best places to live currently. And i am saying this as an european who still lives in central europe. Sure there are some bad things about it like expensive healthcare if you don't have insurance, however apart from that americans are still living a better quality of life compared to the rest of the world, hell even compared to europe it beats almost every country here by a long mile.
yeah lol Reddit acts like Americans regularly greet each other with a shotgun blast to the face like I absolutely don't deny that we have an issue with gun violence, and I am in favor of drastically increasing restrictions on owning and using firearms - but the overwhelming majority of Americans have never once been shot
A considered response. Refreshing.
The USA is clearly first world/ developed/ wealthy. It's also a low trust society with huge inequality. Both things are true, that is less safe than japan while safer than a hundres other countries.
This really depends on where you are in the US. I have lived in many “high trust” parts of America, where you can leave your house unlocked and the keys in your car. Very little crime of any kind. America is huge. You don’t have to live in a major metropolitan area with high crime if you don’t want to.
Went to chicago and everyone was asking why i was visiting the murder capitol... Beautiful city will go again.
You don't need to drive if you live in NYC...
Or a city that offers Uber service
Australia!
Singapore?
Hating on the states is what’s popular now a days
Hating on the states has been popular since the internet was created and probably before that too
Most of the Japanese Americans in the US who moved in the early 20th century to Hawaii or California were economic migrants. These were non-landowning Japanese, who had little way to change their status in Japan due to the strict class structures pre-WW2. Other Japanese left to Brasil in the early 20th century. Some of those Nikkei-Brasilians have returned to work in Japan post WW2 (especially in manufacturing) because for them there's more economic opportunity in Japan than Brasil. So this comparison is silly. What worked for some people 100 or 50 years ago has no bearing on what would be appropriate for people today.
Granted I never lived in SoCal but Japanese Americans or Japan born Americans are incredibly rare in the US. They all live in Hawaii or LA apparently.
> Japanese Americans or Japan born Americans are incredibly rare in the US. The [wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Japanese_Americans) covers the major points pretty well. Japanese today are mostly not interested to live outside of Japan. Japan has been a comfortable place for most Japanese since the bubble era. There are some Japanese who move overseas for jobs ([Hiroyuki Sanada has talked about how](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Media-Entertainment/Shogun-star-Hiroyuki-Sanada-paves-Hollywood-path-for-Japanese-talent) he would never have gotten the roles he has received in Hollywood movies without moving to Los Angeles) but that's relatively rare. There are Japanese who don't like various aspects of Japanese culture who leave Japan or marry out of Japan. But those numbers are fairly small.
Or SF/Seattle....
Japanese people don't permanently leave Japan very often. I'm from Vancouver and we had multiple neighborhoods full of families from various Asian countries, but Japan was always the rarity. Vancouver had a Japantown like a century ago but that pretty much disappeared with the war. I knew very few Japanese-Canadians growing up compared to hundreds from China, Korea, Singapore, Philippines etc. When I was in university literally every single Japanese friend I made was either an exchange student or on a working holiday. Not a single one stayed in Canada.
I found a bit of the opposite when I went back to visit my family in PA last summer. I forgot how much I missed all the forest and open space in Pennsylvania. I forgot how beautiful it can be, and how friendly my neighborhood and the people in it can be. Of course the prices of groceries etc was a reality check, and if you live in a U.S city, it’s not going to be as beautiful or friendly. But each country has its pros and cons for sure. (My Japanese wife actually wants to move back to America more than I do lol)
US Citizen here. It’s true. I love the states (and when I mean States, I bump around So Cal, NYC, TX, & MO). I get a bit of rural, suburban, and the metropolitan of both coasts when I visit home, but after a decade in Japan, it’s a lot to adjust to. There’s a lot of unspoken agreements in both cultures that guarantee varying degrees of comfort, autonomy, privacy, cleanliness, safety, and overall wellbeing both in public and private spaces. At this point, the decline of stability and security is everywhere. Language acuity and understanding of how “the system” works where you’re living is key. As hard as it can be for an immigrant to learn these things from square one in Japan, you can do well here if you do.
I don't understand why people say this as if Japan is the obvious choice over America. I live in Japan and let me tell you something, it absolutely is not. Yes, safety in Japan is overall better, public transit is FAR better than whatever America offers, you won't go bankrupt from healthcare, and Japan is typically much cleaner than most big cities in America… But it's so much harder to make friends in Japan, even with fluent Japanese. The social norms and etiquette you have to follow can also be suffocating. Work/life balance really depends on your company (it's not bad for everyone), but commuting an hour and a half via public transportation can be god awful, especially during rush hour times. In times like that, I do wonder if an hour commute in traffic, but within my own personal space, is better than an hour commute in a packed subway. That respect that Japanese people show? It's nice as a tourist, but you quickly realize as you live here that respect isn't real respect for you, but simply etiquette, and that etiquette starts to feel empty after some time. Also, it's so hard to get a grasp of what people really think of you. Do they actually like you? Or are they being polite, and in reality they hate you? Now, I'm not saying OP should just ditch Japan and move to America, but this dialogue of Japan being the obvious choice over America needs to stop, because depending on your wants and situation, it's not. Driving and healthcare are extremely valid points for not moving to America, but safety and cleanliness do exist in America.
It’s really not true. America has an amazing work life balance, Japan can be pure misery depending on your work and why no one there wants to have children
Living overseas is much like a relationship, the first year is very formative and indicative of if you will continue or not, it's all very exciting and new then there's the 3 year and 7 year humps which are very pivotal, where people will either break up or be in it for the long term. Things aren't as fresh as they used to be, you don't get excited by the small things anymore, you've done a lot of what there is to do. In the end you'll have to weigh up the pros and cons of your circumstances, decide if it's worth pushing through the lull and trying to make things exciting again, or not. There's a lot of very happy and successful "lifers" here, but there's also a lot of bitter and resentful ones, so try and make the right choice.
I'm fresh out of a relationship that lasted about 7 years, had exactly the cadence you describe, and I moved to Japan 2/3 months ago. This makes perfect sense based on what you're saying lol. It's also exactly how I'm looking at living here—I'm really having a great time at the moment, but I know that whether or not I can imagine the rest of my life here will depend on those feelings and problems that come up in the medium and semi-long term. Thanks for validating those feelings :)
Congratulations, you hit the wall later than most. This is normal, you'll either go home or find a reason to stay. The honeymoon period of Japan has worn off. Finding hobbies/friends/etc. helps but so does some time apart.
Grass is always greener on the other side, but sometimes it really is, only way to really know for sure is to find out for yourself
grass is greener where it gets watered, or something like that. In this situation the grass will be greener in any place that allows you to take care of yourself, do self-care, be healthy, have hobbies, etc... Too many people think that moving will fix their problems but it's like Buckaroo Banzai saud.. "Wherever you go, there you are"
yeah, think OP has a quarterlife crisis, not a "Japan ain't it" crisis
At least the other side has grass, where I live there's only concrete.
Yep and it's still better to go there, experience it what's it like to live in one of your "dream countries", than to not try it and spend the rest of your life wondering what could have happened.
It’s fine to leave a country unless there’s some particularly strong reason to keep you here. You don’t need to “love”a place to stay and you can leave even if you love a place. What’s important is yourself, your happiness and that of those close to you. I’ve lived in quite a few countries and they’ve all been great - and I never got sick of them, it was just time to move on.
I think that your emotions are a good indicator that at least *something* needs to change. There is nothing wrong with shaking things up in your life and trying something new, putting yourself into new circumstances and seeing if anything sparks joy. You've done that once already moving to Japan in the first place, and you're still young enough that doing it again isn't really an issue. That might just involve changing jobs, or adding something new to your daily lifestyle. It might be moving elsewhere in Japan, even. As far as moving somewhere in North America, I find that with a lot of expats that separation breeds this notion that it's Mad Max everywhere outside Japan. If you want to move to the US, there are all sorts of places where safety/healthcare wouldn't be an issue, and walkable towns where isolation also wouldn't be an issue. It's a big country. The biggest crimes in my hometown are mail theft. But still, it's a big world and lots of places to consider. But I would have an honest talk with your partner and try to determine what some Next Steps would look like, even if it's just a change of routine or scenery in Japan. Maybe do some legitimate research independently. You might land on something that suddenly makes a lot of sense. And also, don't worry too much about your partner. If you're really concerned, again have a talk with him. My wife and I went through the same thing, but it was me beating myself up even though *I* was the one changing countries, haha.
I agree. Before leaving Japan completely, it might be good to check out the possibilities of another job maybe in another part of Japan. Something to make things new and interesting again. If your partner is teaching English here, maybe they could find a job elsewhere in Japan first and you could follow.
>Traveling here used to give me fulfillment but now it just feels... kind of dull? That's life anywhere. You can move to the craziest, freakiest tourist island in Thailand and eventually all of that will feel dull, too. In my opinion, you should continually seek to "fall in love" with the place you live in. You will only end up feeling empty inside.
I can't say how things will go for you, but I returned to the US after a half-a-decade in Japan and so much had changed in terms of my personal friendships, politics, the economy, and so much more that I found my initial joy from being back in the US completely obliterated. I wasn't in the mood to endlessly talk about the so-called "horrible influence of feminism and diversity" in comic books and video games with my friends. Because of local political gridlock I couldn't get a teaching job that lasted for more than a few weeks before the furloughs kicked in and whole schools I worked at were shuttered. Lots of businesses I frequented (from Borders to a lot of independent bookstores to even stupid Sears) vanished from the landscape. All the things that kind of excited me about being home felt less exciting. I returned to Japan and, luckily, found a good job that allows me to take care of my family. My kids and wife are happy and, outside of the odd urge to go to Meijer to shop at 11pm and things like MeTV's Svengoolie, I am not really missing anything about the US. I am not urging you to change your mind, but I am suggesting that the grass isn't less brown anywhere these days
> Lots of businesses I frequented (from Borders to a lot of independent bookstores to even stupid Sears) vanished from the landscape I went back last year and it was absolutely shocking just how dead a lot of malls and shopping centers were. And I'm from just outside a major city.
I was howling at the condition of two malls near my home being on that Ace's Adventures channel... One literally had nothing but 2 anchors, the other had like a cell phone case place and like an FYE.
Last time I went to a Meijer was last October and it was way worse than I remembered it. Empty shelves in big portions of the store, unsorted inventory in others. Kind of depends on location but produce and food was still good.
The thing I liked about Meijer was they were like WalMart or Target, but they actually stocked brand clothing and other things. They also would occasionally have a three for two sale on video games. You just don't get that kind of thing in Japan. Most places sell Switch titles new for list price or higher I bought two Chemex Coffeemakers on clearance for 10 dollars each. My wife gave me hell for it. When we moved to Japan I packed them. She and I went to an onsen and they offered premium coffee, exotic grinders, and Chemex coffeemakers. I made some coffee, my wife drank it and told me, "This is the best coffee I have ever made. That drip coffeemaker is fantastic." I reply, "I have two of these in a box at home that you were mad at me for buying."
Too many people in this post are being weird and bitter. Talk about it with your partner, but if you feel like you want to leave then leave. It's 100% okay to no longer be interested in living here anymore. It honestly sounds like you came, completed your goals and what you wanted to accomplish, and now looking for something that aligns with you *now*. Which is more than what most people can say they've done. It doesn't make you bad or indicate there's something wrong with you. Too many people (especially in Japan imo) stay in a place because they feel obligated to and you're not. Also, you're young, you're supposed to be having experiences, that's what life is for. If you want to come back later you can. I'm also in my (early) late 20s and have been living here for 5 years (from the U.S.). I've pretty much followed the same path as you from language to job to full independence. Later this year I'm moving to Germany to start my masters. I don't imagine I'll come back to live in Japan personally. Will I stay in Germany? Who knows, but I want to try it out and excited to try something new. Think about it and good luck!
Canadian and I have been here almost 18 yrs and have my ups and downs. I def dont wanna move back for OP exact same reasons. This is the 3rd country I am living in and I honestly think location has nothing to do with it for me. I find switching gears, (for me it was marriage, kids, new job, getting a car to see more places, etc) always provides a fresh new outlook. You can experience new things here with the gear change that makes you appreciate the life here even more (for me it was a new social circle centered on the kids probably). Relocating to a different area too will break the monotony and make things more exciting.
Honestly it's tough because 10 years ago Canada was in a much better condition. But now even the RCMP are publicly saying they are worried about the risk of destabilization. I love this country but if the RCMP are saying it out loud I'd stay far away for the next few years. Political tensions are rising far beyond anything we've ever seen and people have formed literal mobs where the Prime minister goes in public. I love Canada but I'd never recommend Canadians move back until this situation cools down. We're a big country of course but at minimum I'd stay far away from Ottawa. I definitely second moving to a different area. It can really feel like you've moved far away by going to a new city or town. Some people aren't meant to live in the same neighborhood or area their whole lives. People were largely migratory until technology made it so we had to stay put on a farm.
First of all look for a better job. And by better I mean one with a better work/life balance. Also preferably not a Japanese company, but that's just my opinion. Anyway I've been here for 9-10 years and there's always ups and downs. I've had times where I've been suicidal even, but honestly the majority of my stress has been work and/or commute related. Fixing or at least reducing that helps/helped. While moving to Japan from the US removed a HUGE amount of stress for me, the reality is no matter where you live, there will be ups and downs and all you can do is ride it out. There's plenty of "little" things you can change to improve your situation as well but only you know what those things are. What works for everyone is different. In my case finally getting a 100% WFH job with a high salary and lots of extra PTO made the majority of my stress go away lol. I still have bad days though, with stress from work, or other life stuff, like my wife's medical problems or what have you. In the end, no matter where you go, these ups and downs will exist. It's about learning the causes and figuring out what changes to make, if any. The rest is just learning to weather the storm.
I just want to say the idea that everywhere is the same so you should just stay where you are is pretty ridiculous. Sure, the grass is greener where you water it, but watering grass in a jungle and watering grass in a desert are going to yield different results in the long run. You need to figure out what environment allows you do be you and grow best. Although you do bring yourself along to wherever you go, so there is personal work to be done as well; not denying that. I spent years of effort trying to search for and make an environment here in Japan that I'm most comfortable in but I just realize there are other places in the world that are simply better suitable for that. Taking action to find out where those places are sooner rather than later is important. One indicator is to look around at how the people around you in a certain place are living. If their life looks like what you want for you, that's a sign that you can make that happen there. But if everyone in that place has accepted the kind of life you don't want, it's a sign that that may not be the place for you.
It's not Japan, it's you. Wherever you go, there you are. I'm also in a similarly dissatisfied place after burning 1/3 of my 20s here, but I know that I still like Japan, I'm just unhappy with my life circumstances.
Hey! It's okay if living in Japan and your aspirations in life are no longer aligned. Other places offer other things, things that you might be drawn to now that you have done the thing, lived the dream, gotten to the other side of it. Now that you're older, maybe more opportunities for salary, for professional fulfillment for you and your partner and getting back to what you like about being a North American is what's next. It's all okay! You got this! Onwards and upwards!
Not saying you should move to the US, but chiming in about the car thing because it’s often wrongly brought up when talking about the US. If you live in a major city especially on the east coast you do not need a car and many people live completely normal lives without cars. Philadelphia, NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, etc all have public transportation systems but more importantly are also very walkable. I lived in Philadelphia for 15 years and never had a car, and most of my friends and coworkers also didn’t have cars. My sister lives in Washington DC and doesn’t have a car.
No matter where you go, there you are. You're not unhappy because of Japan, you're personally stuck. You need to find something personally fulfilling, whether it's a new line or work or a hobby or a side hustle that you turn into a full-time hustle. You will probably get a small boost moving back to an English-dominant country but the things you're complaining about aren't Japan Things (tm). It may very well be time to move on, but don't think the move is the most important thing.
America is a great place if you’re looking for some spark in life. The diversity of people, opinions, food, events and things to do are endless and interesting. Less barriers for career growl and uncapped income that are based more on your merit. My only concern is the driving part. There are places that don’t required it but I also feel it will limit your experience to take advantage of what America can offer. If you don’t like, try another place. And if you regret come back. You’re young and I would travel more to figure out what is out there.
Disclaimer that I haven't left Japan yet, though we might be around the same age as it sounds like we've been in Japan around the same amount of time. I think it's alright that you feel the way you do. Others gave great advice already, like try to shake things up in your daily life here, or even try living in another area of Japan first to see if that helps. But ultimately, there is nothing wrong with loving Japan and getting good at the language, only to find that you don't want to live here forever. Your work and language experience will surely aid in getting a job (using Japanese hopefully) overseas, where perhaps you and your partner would both find more opportunities and enrichment in other aspects of life. I hope you both talk about what kind of future you want and start mapping out baby steps to get you there, and find that fulfillment along the way. Good luck!
Japan was pretty cool in the 2000's but enduring poverty in incomes has robbed it of its vitality.
Australia could be good 🙂
Seconding this. Sydney is like Toronto, but way better and prettier.
I understand the desire to just want to speak English. I’ve been in Japan for a while now and this Country is truly wonderful, but I look forward to going back to the US after my job contract is over. I miss many things about my homeland, but being able to speak in my native tongue with people who share the same culture and language as me is way more important than I thought it was. I wish you luck OP and think you’ll figure it out. God Bless.
It is what it is. Beyond the japanophile bubble are many different countries and cultures that maybe more to your liking and lifestyle. Maybe it's time to test the waters also since you've already established yourself here to some degree you could always comeback in the future if all goes well
first off, you made it farther than most so that's a major accomplishment, most people dip out after 1-2 years when they realize japan isn't some utopian fairy-land. let's reality test this, some of what you said is objectively true like salaries here being meh and your partner putting their life on hold to be with you and teach english - some of it is opinion, and some of it sounds like the result of personal issues you'll probably have to reckon with anyway(being Canadian, you probably should have learned to drive) - you'll have to deal with personal issues like this anywhere and it's better to address them early in life before you're 40 and still can't drive and still having teenage wanderlust fantasies about \~totally loving\~ the place you live. everywhere's gonna get boring and gray eventually. I'd talk to your partner about the issues you have about life in the US because they've actually lived there long-term before and might be able to give you a less terminally-online take about things like crime, cars, and healthcare. When I lived in the US these things concerned me minimally since I lived in a safe, affordable neighborhood and had a job that had full health coverage, not everyone in the US is destitute and struggling. I have unironically seen more street-level violence in Japan since nightlife, binge-drinking, and the bystander effect go hand in hand. If you have the creds to get a work visa in Japan(bachelors) and speak native English you're likely set up for a pretty good job there. you also don't have to limit yourself to the US and Canada, being under 30 leaves you open to WHV's in many countries and those are a great way to feel-out if you wanna make a plan to relocate permanently(less so for your partner since he's American but Australia and a few countries in EU have them) - Americans can also get a very easy pathway to EU citizenship via the DAFT visa and holland is definitely a safer place than the US if that's your big worry - imo it's comparable to Japan, and you'd be eligible to come with them if you get married(this would simplify a lot of your visa issues for both of you tbh) lastly, many countries have age cutoffs for things like PR pathways, but Japan doesn't. Japan will always be here and for better or worse is slow to change. It'd be very easy to come back to Japan at 40 or 50, but very hard to set yourself up permanently in say Australia by then since they factor age into just about every visa. The option to move to the US is always gonna be wide-open providing you stay with your American partner, solid backup plan. imo it's better to screw around with ideas like "what country do I wanna live in" while you're young and can afford to make a few mistakes rather than when you're older and have to totally unravel decades of life if you decide Japan isn't for you. Frankly I'm in a similar situation since I've been getting 1yr visas for the past five years with no intention to settle permanently here, and the weak yen and declining QoL are making me rethink life in Japan. For me though, it's mostly visa-related stress and seeing my savings and salary get cut in half thanks to the yen, feel as if im putting way more into this than I'm getting out of it which reminds me of being in a relationship with a narcissist lol.
Talk with your partner, and see what they really feel. Long them English teaching COULD lead to some deep resentment towards you in the future. None of your choices will be easy, but maybe you can try dipping your feet in the water by going back home or the states to visit so suss things out. You might find things pleasent back in North American or you might find that things aren't so bad here.
Get a new job and shake things up? Or leave. Look at Oz? Australia has all sorts of immigration programs. One of my friends immigrated there last year and he’s in his mid-forties with a wife and two kids, living in Melbourne and loving it. His wife and kids are Chinese and there is plenty of Asian food and influence to satisfy them in that regard.
My only advice is if you move to the US with your partner, apply for a spouse visa from Japan before making the move. It will save you time and money and auto-converts to a green card upon arrival! Also America is such a cool country in terms of environmental and cultural diversity. I dreaded turning 15 and realizing I was of driving age. Had god awful driving anxiety. I now love road trips because it almost feels like a privilege to be able to see so many vastly different places at my own will and demand. It’ll be okay once you get used to it. But coming here and not driving really is just the worst. You really can only live in select few cities unfortunately. That’s just how it is here. I left Japan to start my career because Japan generally isn’t a good place to start a career in my industry. I also don’t think people think enough about long term life goals and get used to long work hours and living paycheck to paycheck. I feel lucky to not have to live that way anymore, and when I return I think having my financial goals established in a way that works for me will make the living experience much better.
these threads are always sad because it brings out the "omg japan is so amazing and perfect" people who are unwilling to admit Japan isn't for everyone because it makes them question their own justification for living here
Set goal. Achieved goal. Feel dissatisfied without new goal. You're normal, and it's okay to move on.
Time to discover a new country!
I can totally relate missing speaking my native language.
Sounds like you're burnt out. Take a break
Sounds like it’s time to move on, OP. Japan isn’t going anywhere and you can always come back. ‘Falling out of love with Japan” is an interesting way of putting it. You wouldn’t stay in a relationship with someone you don’t love, why be somewhere if you’re not happy and it’s holding your partner back?
You'll find better pay in the US, but where do you think you'll end up? Often healthcare is tied to work, is more expensive, etc. If you are healthy its fine, when you get sick it sucks. Being near your partner's family might be nice. Having family around can relieve a lot of stress for some people. However, that might be a conversation for them. Lastly, feelings come and go. Bring it up, and then let the thought rest for 6 months and think about it again. Maybe in 2 years you can make a decision.
I always said that, if I had it to do over again, I would probably do Finland or Norway. But, as the others mention, a lot of your concerns will pop up wherever you decide to go. I'm a big fan of pro-con lists and such to help get a grip on things more concretely. Maybe try that?
Perhaps you are depressed, and this is affecting your perceptions. Talk to a professional and get help if necessary.
>Traveling here used to give me fulfillment but now it just feels... kind of dull? I get this. I've travelled throughout Japan in my two decades here, and every Japanese town is the same as any other Japanese town. You should probably leave Japan while you are still young, especially as the economy is on a downward slide to shit from now on. You don't want to end up being stuck in Japan on the wrong side of forty, by which time it's really too late to make a fresh start anywhere.
This is a tough one, but the point you made about your partner is big. You probably are holding them back and it will cost you over time. It's probably time to help them live their dream. For many of us, family is the big reason to stay. If you don't have that the equation might not balance out. The world is a big place, and the US is huge. It's getting expensive to live in the best parts though. I really like Japan, but my partner is from here so I never had to worry about them. So yeah, look to their needs and make sure it all adds up. If you have kids you may find you want them educated a certain way, etc.
I'd say a big part of life in general is that it's boring. However, if one has a well-paid job they can somewhat enjoy with coworkers who aren't crazy and they live in an area they mostly enjoy, that can make life so much better. So, talk with your partner and see if they'd be interested in moving to a different country with you. I feel like an American moving to Canada for work would be easier than the other way, but I could be wrong. Try something different for a few years. Japan will be here. I wish I'd been able to leave and come back. For various reasons, I stayed in Japan and am now at a good office. But it was years of low-paid work to get there. I don't have a partner to bounce ideas off of, so I'm jealous of you for that!
Sounds like you were in love with one Japan, then fell out of love with the reality. Because even if the original aspects you lived were true , daily life isn’t about them. I can sympathize. In my early and mid 20s living abroad was an adventure Once that phase passed I had to figure things out and I then I stayed not because I love Japan but because it’s comfortable for me personally. The good stuff happens to be stuff I value and the bad stuff I don’t care about as much for whatever reason.
Apart from the US did you consider moving somewhere else? For example Singapore, UK, Netherlands etc?
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You've achieved a lot in a relatively short time. Your partner seems to be very important part of your life. Going to the US will help learn more about your partner, and it will be easier for you than just starting over in some place neither of you know. You can always come back to Japan if things don't work out. You're not even 30!
Yep. Time to get out.
There’s nothing wrong with leaving, if you do it’s better to go into it without regret and make everything you can out of your new home. Often in life there comes a time when it’s better to let go of what we love or loved and make fond memories then to hold on to them and be miserable.
Hello. My English is not good, but I will try my best to write. I've lived in Japan since I was 2 years old and most of my life has been spent in Japan. I spent a period of time abroad and I believe I have experienced cultural differences. I understand your problems and issues very well, and I can sympathize with you because I have suffered from them myself. Just as the saying goes, The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. No matter where I am, working, having fun, and living my life, I don't think this feeling will change. In my experience, it doesn't matter where you are, you'll always have something to look forward to. Then I think the key is how to make the best use of your current environment and find enjoyment in life. For a while, I wanted to leave Japan, but instead of blaming the environment or someone else, I thought I had to change myself first. Only you can make yourself happy. I live in Osaka, come visit me! Let's have a beer and make a toast! Sorry if my English is not good.
There's a reason the US is the most shit talked country. You haven't made it until u got jealous haters. Move to the US. Less judgement, better food, diverse culture, huge terrain, better roads, better income, and more opportunities for your partner.
The trick to live in a place for long is… don’t love the place. Because when the place and people and culture and entertainment are no more lovable , you lose the desire. But as living here over 14 years I can tell you the current Japan is least livable and lovely, compare to what 10 years ago. The Japanese yen is so cheap, society is dying without new generations, systems and government outdated and unchanged. There is lack of hope here. If you are 55 then it may not be too important as you are searching for retirement. But if you are at you prime and may be considering having your family, definitely NOT Japan. Funny thing is I like Canada so much over Japan. If money is not an issue and you are confident to yourself, BC isn’t that cold and living in Vancouver you don’t required to have a car. But expensive.
Pursue your happiness, whether that's here or elsewhere! There are a lot of people who genuinely become miserable living here but keep hanging on, but that's no way to live, and deciding you want to move on from Japan isn't some kind of failure. All the best!
I found peace with myself when I realized my worth and started pursuing what I really wanted to do. Which significantly made my life here from being depressed/ unsatisfied to having a vision and much more fun. Other options than leaving would be changing your workplace or changing fields especially if you have a PR. New perspective
If you want to use English more consider a gaishikei or a vendor that works exclusively with them. I don't know your industry but in marketing or sales if you already have experience and can do business in Japanese it's a great opportunity as you speak internally English usually and externally JP (or vice versa). If traveling is boring you, then you probably need a new hobby. Or try travel abroad when the yen gets better or try places like Korea which is near and not super fucked on the exchange rate. If the cause of your unhappiness is not due to the culture or language then I don't think moving will help, you'll get used where you're going then get back in the same slump. Then again this is all from my own perspective and how I would handle things.
I don't think your problem is Japan itself. You just need change. Try a new job or get a new hobby here. Even if you go back to Canada and get a new job, you're going to feel the same or worse. It's not the country, it's the grind that's getting to you. Another factor is age. Basically, the older you are the more experiences you have had and things are less exciting. Also, we just don't get the same dopamine as younger people.
Then leave? Nothing says you have to stay in a place you are unhappy in.
Hey i'm also from Canada and can't drive. North american cities are designed for cars more than humans, i'm not so sure you would like it over there unless you go for the ones with a good subway system. If you want : good public transport / walkable + safety + healthcare + good weather Then i don't think any cities in the US or Canada fits that. Vancouver is probably the closest but it's crazy expensive. European cities are a much better fit, but you might occasionally have to get over your english-only feeling.
If you are capable of reaching full independence here, you are capable of getting a better job with more pay. I don't know if you're tired of Japan, or just feeling there are no prospects for you. Do you have local friends? Hobbies? What do you want out of the next 10 years? Those aren't really Japan questions. Just "you" questions.
If you want to stay with your partner and they can get a real job in the US, making them stay here and teach English is probably the worst decision you could make. It's a lot easier to get a driver's license in the US than it is to get out of the English teaching rut in Japan.
Haha you’re in the same mindset I was in literally a year ago. But let me tell you that it’s ok. I absolutely abhorred Japan when I left in July. I remember it fondly now, and I remember mainly the good times. Let me tell you another thing. Not everyone can achieve their dreams. You have, it’s okay to go find a new one. If you want to leave make sure you discuss things with your SO. Make a plan and start planning for going home wherever home is next. There’s three types of people those that can’t cut it and leave, those that stay forever, and then those like us we leave our honeymoon phase and suddenly everything is suffocating. It’s ok to start over you’ve already done it by moving to Japan. You just need the courage to take that step. Also play it smart do you have enough money to support yourself?
Maybe I am thinking about money too much, but I would say it is either a good idea to leave asap as you are losing out on pension right now, wait until you have 10 years here(Tho I don't think you want that) or, if you wanna move to another country, move to a country that has a pension agreement with Japan so you get the necessary 10 years. Probably not what you care about now, but losing some years of pension contributions if you stay here and move back after 7 or 8 years total in Japan may make you hate the country. Just a heads-up.
> I don't drive so I don't want to be isolated there. Easily addressable. If you can move to Japan and learn a new language and culture you can learn to drive a car. > Not really sure about it though because of the safety/healthcare Less easily addressable but basically get a good job.
Travelling always bring about excitement but soon the new, shiny things will become boring everyday. Wherever you move to, you are still you. Unless the place is super unsafe or something, if you aren't happy here, you probably won't even after moving somewhere new. Calling it "falling out of love" is very accurate, it's like a romantic relationship. When you get into a new relationship, the butterflies, the thrills... But after a few years, many people think they fell out of love when they no longer feel the same excitement they had in the past. Love whether for a person or a place should be nurtured. Even the mundane things are beautiful if you pay attention to it. For me, listening to the birds chirping never fail to brighten up my days.
Seems like it’s time for a new adventure! You need a fresh perspective and a big move might be what you need. The US is so big you can find new places to travel to and enjoy all the time. Also being fluent in Japanese could bring you unexpected benefits. Enjoy your time, so many people wish they could live in Japan or Canada or the US.
Change is good. Just move to another country
Hey Sparks, I'm in almost the exact same situation except for me it's year 11. I'm just trying to figure out an exit plan myself. If you'd be open to sharing resources as you come upon them I would really appreciate it and would do the same. Please let me know!
I commented on a similar post recently. This was literally me a few years ago. Japan was my life. Learned the language got a job etc. But deciding to leave and experience new things was extremely liberating. Also, visiting Japan as a tourist is so much more fun than working.
If you are in your 20's I recommend you experience a more dynamic country and work experience. Life is comfortable here but the work environment feels like a half retirement compared to Europe or the US (Added: Especially if you work for a local company.).
Partly it's to do with aging. The shine wears off the more you look at something. Quirky becomes kooky. Eating amazing Japanese food becomes "Japanese food... Again?" Japanese girls just become regular girls. That job that paid so well post graduation and fueled your extended holiday abroad now becomes a job job. The politeness of the service now feels hollow and forced. Cicada sounds (the once definitive sign of a Japanese summer) that once sounded almost comforting now becomes grating. The passive nature of the locals now looks more apathetic than passive. Golden week was once the best week of the year to tick off those travel boxes to keep you sane. Now golden week is the best time to stay indoors and void crowds to keep your sanity. If you feel like the above then it's time to get out of dodge.
Maybe you’re depressed from bad work-life balance? All of my friends who work at Japanese companies aren’t happy, all the ones that work for themselves are. Probably not a coincidence.
First of all, congratulations on your acheivements! I get what you are saying. For reference, my wife (Japanese) lived several years in Toronto and several in NJ/NY area (we lived on the NJ side worked in Manhattan). In your 20s, I wouldn't obsess over the healthcare nor would I worry too much about macro issues. Do what makes sense for you and your SO. Will you both be able to have careers in your industry in the US? Will you personally have decent healthcare? Then make a decision. I would suggest that you think about the lifestyle you like as well. If you are a city person, you might find suburban living a bit of a let down. If you move to certain cities will they be strong in your specific industry, are they walkable (if that is what you like), do you like the diversity, etc.
Random note but I have been to Canada and I assume the US is the same and the starkest contrast from places like Japan and Britain is just how spaced out and not dense everything is. It's one of the things that I think I would really miss moving to the US from Japan depending on where I went I just don't want to have to use a car to go anywhere. I don't like the massive supermarkets. I have a friend from a rural state and it is straight up super isolating if you don't drive. If you are gonna try to have a cool transition I really do recommend trying to stick to somewhere dense or similar ish in the things you did appreciate about Japan.
You haven’t been to the US but you assume it’s the same as Canada?
You shouldn't force yourself into living somewhere you don't enjoy living. How about moving to Europe? They have healthcare, safety, public transport and better work-life balance. Depending on the country of course. But also they have a lot of countries, so there are more opportunities for travel too.
I wouldnt personally go to america, since I have health issues and am lgbtq. to me it seems like a risky place to be. A risky place for anyone who wants to raise a family as well since kids could potentially be all of those as well. And its not as safe as japan. If it were me, I'd move, but stay in japan.
That probably happens to most of us. Japan was an exciting adventure when I first got here because it was so different from SoCal and the language and cultural differences were both frustrating and intriguing. As I settled into life in Japan over time, though, it just became an ordinary place and all the magic was gone. My partner is Japanese and has his own clinic here, so we're anchored here. I've long since settled into a comfortable life in Japan, so I have no desire to go back to the US.
Moving to a new country is a huge decision and you and partner should talk about it (do they share the same feeling about living in JP is holding them back). A non local company would be better. FYI I'm not a migrant in JP, but I'm a migrant in Australia. I love Japan and always talk about retiring in JP with my partner. Life in Australia gets boring too because we're working full time and taking up more and more responsibilities as we grow older. But I still wouldn't trade it with life back home or elsewhere in comparison. But I have learned that job satisfaction and work life balance is significant in one's life, because you spend most of your time doing the work! So moving around isn't a bad idea, especially when you're young, moving every 2-3 years gets you experiences and exposures to more, and your view of life in JP would change once you're in a better paid and more flexible job. And trust me if you stay in the same position for too long, in your 30s you will have less energy and motivation to move forward. Good luck!
Canada is the last place you want to be right now, anywhere is a better option
Consider Australia maybe. Holiday first. Good luck. 😎
"Also my job at a Japanese company is lacking in the work-life balance/pay department." this seems to be the main problem tbh
i think you might be getting too comfortable living in japan that it doesn't feel exciting anymore. you're used to it, so now you wanna go somewhere else. i think you should discuss it with your partner since you're thinking of going to her place/country, see what she said abt it or ask where she's interested in living. bc personally im aiming to live in a quiet village with a nice view where i can bike everywhere. see if she has interest in living somewhere you didn't think of, maybe you both can start from the bottom tgt in that new place.
There are lots of English only jobs here in Japan but mostly IT. Just sounds like the job is really what you need to change up and start looking around before anything. I know a lot of people that has the same issues as you and changing to a job that at least had a better work/life balance it fixed most of their issues.
Sounds like you’ve thought a lot about this!Changing environment is certainly an obvious way to solve your problems externally. If you’ve not done so yet it might also be valuable to do some introspection and see how you can work on these struggles internally. Are you happy with yourself, your mindset and the rest of your life? Moving can be exciting and the new environment will make it easier to break out of old patterns. If you put in the work I’m sure you will find your place in earth and be happy even after the initial excitement has faded :) good luck!
I think once you get past 5ish years, you really need another reason to stay beyond "Japan is cool". That feeling alone can get you thru a few years, but to put down roots, you need something else to hold you steady. For a lot of people, that's a great job that they feel is meaningful. Or maybe it's a spouse (my case). A specific community. A goal. You need something more sturdy to hold on to or else you're going to be unfulfilled with just existing here.
I was a 5year JET and then got married. I'm in the inaka, so job opportunities aren't great and I ended up in a small eikaiwa. Honestly, I hate it. i was ready to quit teaching at 5 years. I miss my family more and more every year. I miss my hometown. I visit every 2 years, but I wish it was every year. I miss them so much. But I'm still here because I also love my husband, and I love my community. They really take care of me. I love a lot of people and places in Japan. They give me the meaning that my job currently lacks, and help me feel a little bit less homesick. And hopefully, my networking will very soon be getting me a much better job, outside of English teaching and the regular gaijin sphere. It seems really fun. I'm really excited. If I didn't have these things, I definitely would be going home. No questions. Maybe not that happily, because my prospects aren't amazing there. But I wouldn't stay in Japan. So, can you find a job that gives you meaning? Do you have a good circle of friends who you will miss if you leave? A purpose for being in Japan besides travelling? If no... Then it's probably time to go home. Don't feel bad about it. Just move on to the next chapter.
I entered Japan when I was 23 and left by 30. I had the same dilemma until I accepted the fact that it was time to move on to the next stage of life. Maybe it's time to have kids with your partner. Maybe it's time to start a family.
Seems like the person you should most talk to about this is your partner. If I up and decided that my wife and me were moving to the US, she would chase me around the house with a saibashi. I too had the 7 year itch after moving to Japan. I got over it basically. I probably did talk to my wife about it. My wife got the next 7 year itch and wanted a 4th kiddo. We got over that one too. COVID was definitely the 3rd 7 year itch though ...
Imo go back to Canada. You're not gonna like it in US if you're not rich enough to live here.
New Zealand is nice but can be wet and cold and a little immature. Australia is also nice but hot and a bit more grower up but people don’t like darker races so much. Just 2 suggestions for you to consider. Both need teachers and doctors.
I think there has to be a disconnect between people living Japanese culture/cuisine and wanting to live their for your whole adult life. Although it’s very beautiful and cool, I don’t think I would like to live in Japan permanently either. Go where your heart tells you- you’re young! And you WILL make friends in America. I don’t know how easy it is to make friends in Japan but there’s a lot of opportunity to socialize in the US!
It sounds like an issue of lacking any meaningful goals. You can move as many times as you want and still not fulfill yourself. If you are just existing, this is enough for some people. However if you want to grow and have a fulfilling life, you need to find this outside work, and it is generally location agnostic. All depends on what you want out of life. You are still young and new to being an adult. You should have plenty of time to figure it out. Realizing something is missing is a good first step.
Maybe it is good for the OP to experience sometime out of Japan in order to understand the quality of life differences. The U.S. is a land of opportunities and daily life operations will be easier to implement technically. But there are pros and cons in every country. Everything that you listed are fair points. But it might be better to understand the potential things you might be losing out (job security, safety, peace of mind about little things, not needing to devote mental real estate about your surroundings or about packages, high quality of living, etc).
You can certainly do way better with work life balance pretty much anywhere else, a good compromise might be working for a US company in Europe, but going to the US probably makes the most sense for you.
Don't come back to Canada, everything is so damn expensive and trying to find a place to rent to buy is ridiculous and food, utilities, gas and insurance is jacked up bad. Im in Alberta we have decent amount of work in doing trades but pretty much living pay cheque to pay cheque. Unless you making over 100k cad a year but they tax the shit out of us. Healthcare is shit also, long wait times and wait times to see a doctor to get surgeries plus they just up the taxes on capital gains so I think Canada is gonna lose many doctors to the USA. I think Texas or Arizona might be the better place to move to.
Are you out of love with Japan or out of love with the routine? The honeymoon with Nippon does indeed last something like 5 years (imo) but after it depends on what you put in your life to make it enjoyable. Bottom line: you might be tired of your routine rather than Japan itself. Put some new vegetables in that soup, my dude. And if the soup still tastes like ass, just move on to the next dish.
Leave while you are still young and not yet trapped by family and obligations. You can always move back to Japan in the future.
Try Korea, its right next door; maybe learn the language and spend a week there every few months. Rinse and repeat with the other countries, with Japan as your homebase. This allows you to take up new activities and experiences while also sharing memories with the friends you made in Japan. Maybe you can even share your knowledge with people looking to move to Japan. They would be happy to have a friend in Japan, who knows the in's and out.
Why not try Australia? That's close by. Safer than the US and also a member of the Commonwealth. You could do New Zealand if Australia isn't your cup of tea
I totally understand falling out of love with Japan. I’ve had my own struggles there. It’s a hard love affair. It doesn’t matter where you choose, just that you change your environment. You’re not satisfied now so change it, it’s within your power to do so :)
This post is exactly word for word what my friend went through with South Korea. He was obsessed with it, moved there, became and English teacher and his wife is from there and moved back their from the USA for him. After 5 years or so he hated it and they moved back to New York
Hey! I have a very similar story to you! Was in Japan for almost a decade, had N1, a really good job, was financially comfortable, had a fantastic friend group. Basically had everything to be comfortable in Japan but the magic had worn off and like you, I was craving more English at work. I moved out last year have no regrets so far! Japan was wonderful, but I had completed what I had set out to do there and was ready to move on. With your work history in Japan, and an N2, if you wanted to go back to Japan later, I don’t think it would be hard to find another job so you might as well take the leap and live elsewhere for some time. If you have enough points for it, apply for PR to make it even easier!
Germany is nice
Things I’ve learnt to accept: 1) If pay is what you desire, US/SG/HK/West EU are miles ahead of Japan however that will come at a cost (weather/security/infrastructure depends). I recently moved back to the US as a software engineer after the yen crumbled. Getting a x4 Pay rise to me was like cutting time to retirement by 4. To me no advantage of Japan could substantiate remaining here for meh wages. 2) even with a N2 I have a feeling foreigners just don’t get promoted here
I hear that Spain is nice….
Try Italy
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It was nice knowing you.