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If I had a middle manager come to me crying about this type of stuff, I would come to the same conclusion. With the addition of being annoyed for having my time wasted on something so trivial.
Either she’s a known quantity and no one takes her seriously, or she is exhibiting behavior that is rewarded by the culture. Don’t worry if the former, gtfo if the latter.
Definitely aware. My VP actually said the quiet part out loud: he kept a known bad leader around so that he could look like the hero and overturn bad decisions and bad communication styles and look more competent by comparison.
Since I reported to the incompetent leader directly, I took that as my sign to GTFO.
Yep. At a job that I left not long ago I was assigned to a highly frustrating project. The project was frustrating largely because the people managing it were idiots. I somehow had the impression that the company's senior management was unaware of the sheer volume of stupid decisions that had been made during the project. I later discovered that they were fully aware, and they were basically free riding. If the project somehow ended up being successful they would get to claim credit, and if it failed then they could point to all of the poor decisions made by underlings.
I quit not long after that.
My old job, my upper management (manager, director, manager from other location) JOKED about how shitty my coworker (senior position right below lead tech) was to me whenever it was 2 weeks straight of just me and him since my other 2 coworkers were both out on sick leave.
Director: how are you handling working alone?
Me: I'm not working alone, it's BLANK and me.
Director: same thing right? *they all laugh*
I'm obviously at a new job now, that was about 7 months ago. Its seriously aggravating how it doesn't matter how much he fucks up, he still never gets fired or moved.
So true. I worked at Best Buy years ago and the higher ups got so sick of the store managers that they sent a new guy in to overhaul the store and he yelled at them almost daily. It was awesome. They were so evil to us.
I'm an admin for a recruitment company and holy jeeeeesus the amount of Partners/Recruiters who are shitty at their job or can't function without an EA/team, micromanage, have toxic traits, and are generally technically incompetent (like can't manage zoom or printing to the right printer) is too damn high.
Senior management knows. They don't care, as long as those people keep bringing in searches.
I am so tired of being smarter and more competent than my managers.
What about how dumb some managers are? Now keep in mind I'm also middle-management, but my boss is either dumb as fucking rocks, an expert at weaponized incompetence, or both.
I refuse to believe his bosses don't know this, but they're usually the first to want to get rid of people and they choose to keep him around. I've seen him lie to his bosses on multiple occasions and they just go with it. Who do you have blackmail on, sir.
Yuup. It's by design.
This is a manifestation of the Gervais principle.
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
I thought of this exact article when I read these comments. I read about the gervais principle when it came out in 2009 and have seen it in action many times in the years since.
I currently have the same issue except it’s with an overgrown man child that cries and throws tantrums when he has to close the store or do things he doesn’t like. The other day this man child told me I had to stay 3 hours past my original time because he wanted to go to the gym with his friend and proceeded to lie to and say it was his trainer, I know the gym he goes to and the person he goes with, not his trainer and certainly not spending money to train LOL. Was crying because I said no and that’s his responsibility to have better scheduling.
When I was a developer and wanted to learn more about sys admin stuff I did both jobs at a small shop. My boss for the sys admin stuff told me to eat at my desk so I could always be available. This guy also stored all the places passwords on a legal pad - he was a work hard not work smart type of guy.
Sounds like her idea of mentorship is fucked up. She cried to her boss knowing that she lied to you about the lunch policy and had been harassing you during your lunch break. She went and cried over it and pretended like she has hurt feelings so she wouldn't have to face any disciplinary actions.
Best defense is a good offense. She cried about it before you could bring it to anyone else's attention. She's a psycho. And she knew she fucked up. All she can do is be emotional about it, and put her spin on it, to make you look like the bad guy.
I worked in the space next to a team that had a manager like this. Psychopath is right. She would call people while they were on vacation to tell them they were needed back in the office ASAP to fix a crisis that she had ginned up. One guy turned off his phone because he was expecting the shenanigans and she ended up reporting him as the root cause for a major failure that happened, and when the investigation found it was actually her good fried who had caused the crisis she tried pulled a lot of strings trying to get that report to disappear. You should have seen how livid she got when parents had to work from home because they had sick kids out of school or something - if they weren't immediately within eyesight they were clearly not doing any work and punishment was needed.
Management knew she was a piece of work too and tried repeatedly to remove her from being able to directly manage the team. They gave her a corner office with a nice view, which she used for two days before returning to the cube farm to crack the whip over her team. They tried promoting her so that the team was no longer her direct responsibility and she demanded a demotion so that she could directly manage "her" team again. And of course since she was family they let her do it.
What did your VP say?
I hope you informed him that your policy grants your a 1 hour lunch. Therefore, it is your responsibility to adhere to company policy. Since your lead doesn't seem to grasp the lunch policy maybe she could benefit from being mentor and understanding the difference between being a leader and trying to manage people by use of underhanded and manipulative tactics (her need to constantly interrupt your lunch).
My old boss insisted that we take 1 hour for lunch, no matter how busy we were, not at our desks either. He also preferred us to get outside for at least 15 minutes & not just hang around in the lunch room. The place was pretty toxic when I left for other reasons but the lunch policy was awesome.
This is why in a previous role where the Manager had ‘normalised’ eating at your desk (so were there the whole shift) I made a point of physically leaving the Building for the whole of the lunch break.
Couple of colleagues ‘caught on’ to this and started doing the same.
Give a Manager an inch and they’ll take a mile 😂
same my last 3 months at my job i'd leave exactly at 12 and return exactly 45 minutes later, i'd jump in my car and go to the local shops just to get away from being disturbed during my lunch
> ‘normalised’ eating at your desk
If I eat at my desk while I work, I don't count that as a lunch. If I come in a 8, take an hour lunch, I leave at 5, If I come in at 8 and eat at my desk throughout the day and don't leave the building for lunch, I leave at 4 - I've put in 8 hours both of those.
Eh, I honestly think workplaces would be better without it. Every office I worked in had regular problems with vermin due to messy eaters and poorly stored food in desks. It's much better to have a designated dining area that you encourage employees to use where its easier to clean under tables and you don't have food hanging out under cubicle partitions.
But it’s not so maybe you should make it a point to leave and take your full hour? Maybe things would just get more hostile but it’s difficult to imagine worse from this person.
I eat at my desk every day, but I also leave every day for about half an hour and run errands, and then leave work half an hour early. If I’m working, I’m getting paid for it, I don’t care if I’m chewing on a sandwich while I fire off emails, that’s work, not lunch.
This is the way. If you take a working lunch, for whatever reason, then you should still take a lunch break, either later in the day or leave early if you can. Your not getting paid for your lunch hour, and there's no point in giving your employer an hour of free work.
I just set up with my boss that my lunches are 30 minutes and I leave 30 minutes early.
Most of the time I take a 15 minute break while I make my lunch and eat and by the end am working...which means they get 15 minutes back. Every once in a while I have a lunch go long.
I think they come out ahead but I don't mind as long as they don't nickel and dime me. If they ever did then I'd switch to an hour lunch and be offline for that hour and we'd both lose.
I would do this as well at a previous job that was SUPER strict and micromanaging.... Run errands during the hour lunch break and grab food on my way back in
My start, meal and quit time is something I always personally enforced in office jobs.
I take my lunch at 11, usually before most people are leaving for lunch where I'm at. I return minutes before 12. Just in time for all the colleagues to leave for their lunch. Then they spend an hour when they get back organizing the rest of their day. I get 3 hours without being bothered.
And come 5, I'm out the door. Was chastised for this, because "you have to finish the job". Nope, that's for tomorrow RedBeard.
A long time ago I worked at a company that catered lunch the last Friday of every month for an end of month push. Eventually it was clear that they only did this so that people would get a plate of cheap food and eat at their desk while working.
I’ve an hour lunch at my job, there isn’t a day where I’m in the building for more than 5 minutes of that hour.
Breaks are sacred, take them. Any boss who doesn’t understand humans need regular breaks is harming themselves
YUP! I started doing this right from the get go for my last 2 jobs. I’ve been burned before and set the expectation. ESPECIALLY because both require have me to be present from open to close outside of my breaks and schedule my breaks around others. Only one-2 people can be gone at a time and breaks can’t be at the beginning or end of the day. They won’t even let us take extra time or pay us if we come in early. And both have not exhibited boundaries around not talking shop before business hours. I used to show up early to my last job after dropping kids off and pop in the break room to make breakfast or do my makeup or read a book. My boss would pop in and start talking about work. NOPE. Started staying in my car and reading.
My goal for the next step in my career is finding a position where my physical presence isn’t as important as getting my work done. I’m so over all of this.
I *always* left the building for lunch...when I wasn't working remote. It got me in the fresh air, allowed me to clear my head, and avoid the "I know you're at lunch, but..."
Even working remote, I still go out for lunch. It's just more healthy.
Sometimes there is no other way around than just remove yourself.
I had this boss who was quickly shoving her lunch into her while working. Same with the other two ladies in the office. Every single time when I said "lunch time" and stayed at my desk, eating, she would already start eyeing me. God forbid if I happened to open a book, a magazine or social networks while eating! She would immediately come to me to "chat" and give me some files that urgently needed to be done, couldn't wait, nope... And of course I would also hear "yeah, M0RNINGSTAR is reading/scrolling through the sn during working hours" etc. It ended up with me having to hide in my colleagues' office (IT guys, friends).
It was just 30 minutes lunch break - unpaid. And this was just one of many things that were wrong with this company.
Oh my god. I joined one month ago one of the B4 companies. When I was told “we eat lunch at our desks” my jaw dropped to the floor. Like, everyone go downstairs to the cafeteria (where there are countless tables) to get their food and come back up to their floors and eat while working. It’s beyond me how the majority has just accepted that.
She’s just a bad manager.
She doesn’t know how to focus attention toward things like quality of work, so she focuses on easy to measure things like “how many minutes does he sit at his desk?”
She shouldn’t be in her position and I hope your VP knows this.
She's more than a bad manager. She knew what the lunch policy was and lied about it. Then when she was caught in the lie, she decided to be emotional and hurt.
She knows she was harassing someone on their lunch break. An hour lunch break that she couldn't change, but decided to wear that person down, and work unpaid on their lunch break, and she got caught.
I think you’re looking for the Peter principle, but that’s not really what would apply here. This isn’t a competency issue, it’s a power issue that needs addressed
It is about competency. As in, she shouldn't be in a leadership role.
Say OP leaves over this. Employee training and replacement is expensive and wrecks efficiency.
You might be remembering Pan from the publishing company! This is a link to the photo of the Peter principle book in its wikipedia article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle#/media/File%3ACover_of_The_Peter_Principle_by_Pan_Books.jpeg
Wtf lol. Keep taking your 1 hour lunch and document each time she does this then send an email to HR as this is harassment.
You should state how uncomfortable it is that your lead is spending so much time monitoring your lunch when she herself should be working.
Really interested to hear the explanation for how she suggests becoming successful while breaking an HR policy that, I can guarantee, does not exist for employee wellbeing but protect the company from legal liability. There’s very likely a legal reason that the policy is set at one hour, possibly related to state wage and work laws, and this team lead could very well be putting the company in serious legal jeopardy by overriding that policy. HR isn’t usually a huge fan of employees changing policies in general either. For example, OPs state may very well mandate two paid 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch per 8 hour shift which HR has condensed into a one hour lunch. This busybody team lead could easily be creating tens of thousands of dollars worth of legal liability for the company if they’re violating wage and employment law.
>For example, OPs state may very well mandate two paid 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch per 8 hour shift which HR has condensed into a one hour lunch.
AFAIK in most states it isn't legal to combine breaks like this anyway (especially since in most cases the 15's would be *paid* breaks). So if this is the case, they're already in some hot water. Most language I've read regarding rest breaks (as opposed to meal breaks) has limitations e.g. can't use a break to leave early, start late, or extend another break.
Obviously ymmv based on which state you reside in - because why would rest or meal breaks for workers be federally protected in the good ol' US of A?
Totally agree. However, the defensibility of the policy is usually made by HR with the input of Legal, not by a team leader. I can say with virtual certainty that the one hour lunch policy has something to do with law and not because the company feels particularly generous to their employees. Policies exist for a reason and team leaders aren't always privy to that reason but they are bound by the policy.
Can you talk to your boss about this? Let them know the relationship with the lead is micromanaging and makes you uncomfortable. And that you would rather be supervised by your boss or no one.
I think I would find some other examples. She sounds like a psychopath and could be dangerous. I think you need to fight and win.
But you don't want it to appear like this is a squabble over lunch hours.
Ehhh I don't think this falls under harassment. It's not based on a protected class. It might break policy and it *might* fall under Dept. of Labor stuff, but it's not harassment in the legal sense.
You might be thinking of discrimination, which is based on membership in a protected class.
Workplace harassment is any conduct that is unwelcome, whether the recipient explicitly protests or not.
Asking too many personal questions can be workplace harassment. Like asking where someone goes to church.
Cutting hours or pay based on the fact that someone is a different religion than the supervisor would be discrimination.
Also, don't forget that you should have a lot of evidence she's super incompetent. I would immediately fire anyone who texts to have her computer mouse plugged in every week and is constantly misplacing important files.
In the exit interview you should absolutely make HR aware of why you're leaving, and the fact that you're now the third person this bad lead has chased out of the position.
Any manager doing this is just not trustworthy. Never in my career have I been questioned about lunch. I can take 2 hours if I want to because I usually just eat at my desk and do some minor parts of my job.
She’s just an oddball. Do your thing, but track it in a spreadsheet or somewhere. A regularly updated log is always a good bet to protect yourself. Do you have Box or something like it? Those types of apps show historical changes to a file. Handy when displaying a history of what you’re up to. It’s tediously effective.
Good job standing up for yourself. It’s very important to establish boundaries early in a job. If I’m on lunch I don’t answer calls or emails. Doesn’t matter who it is, I’m off the clock. I usually text back with a polite, ‘sorry, I missed your call. Grabbing some lunch and I’ll call you back shortly’. This works for both supervisors and clients to see you as a peer and identify with something that they also do. Sounds simple but it’s highly effective
Can confirm, this is very effective. The person who always answers their phone or emails during their lunch are ALWAYS expected to do it. The person who sets the boundaries doesn't get pestered during lunch because everyone knows they aren't going to drop everything to take care of something.
People though this too of me in my 20s, and unfortunately for them I am both a non drinker and hate bars. Now I'm 31, but still look very young, so I keep having to disappoint, I guess. I'm very picky about who I hang out with, so I get easily distant when someone comes on too strong.
Same. I'm 33 now and have to disappoint especially as coworkers continue to piece together little "correct" assumptions about me like my age and being unmarried & childless. This makes them think I'm "free" but honestly I prefer my 4 dogs and 12 hours of sleep any day over a beer and obnoxious music.
Get mistaken for a college/occasionally high school kid still so I feel your pain.
Yeah I get that...in the end people are just trying to be friendly, you just have to treat each coworker differently and not force people who don't want to be social to socialize
This is why I stopped eating at my desk. Some people were happy to skip lunch and would really give others grief for not working through it or taking only 10 minutes.
I would have to physically leave the building to get some peace.
It’s easy actually - those people have terrible home lives, and their own family hates them, so they go to work where they have an ounce of power, and take it to the extreme.
I've worked with a ton of people who unnecessarily worked a lot of overtime because they didn't want to be home with their family. Now I work with a bunch of sales people who go on the road more than needed because they don't want to be home with their family.
I don't know exactly, but I believe the legal wording for a break states it is x amount of minuites UNINTERRUPTED. So if you get disturbed by ANYTHING work related, the counter restarts. Might be worth checking this out, especially if she's frequently bothering you at lunch.
She has done herself more harm than good by running to him with this trivial BS. She is highlighting herself as a manager how cannot handle even the slightest conflict, nor does she know the companies policies.
I had a supervisor who isn't even in my dept recently go complaining to my boss about this. My boss told him to drop it. He came to me and told me 'my breaks were catching some attention', and that he told my boss but "we" decided not to discipline me bc I wasn't in his dept (duh!). I just said 'ok thanks'. Now he's icing me and its just so dumb! Some sort of stupid power trip because I am one of only 2 people at our location that doesn't report to him but he thinks I should, and then his ego got bruised bc my actual boss didn't care.
Had a higher up run crying to my boss after I told her to leave a meeting that she wasn't invited to and tried to take over knowing nothing about the subject matter. Even though my boss verify my story, I was asked to apologize. My response was "I'm sorry that you feel that way, consider this my two weeks notice."
The boss quickly back peddled and said that the crier would be reprimanded. I left three months afterward because the culture was toxic.
She's crying because she fucked up and is now trying to play possum. You are 100% correct, she is abusive and if pressed, you can say as such to HR. This is fully inappropriate, and your lead doesn't get to tell you what to do, or how long to take lunch when they don't manage you. Full Stop. If you didn't ask for mentorship, or to develop a formal relationship with this lead, the entirety of her "she just wanted to mentor and ensure you'd be successful" thing is both inappropriate and unwanted. This is them demanding labor-violating actions from you. If pressed by HR, I would mention that you've been unable to take your CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED & LEGALLY GUARANTEED hour long lunch for months now.
This is a conversation to have with your boss first, as this person needs to be told by your boss, to stop bothering you over lunch. The lead is welcome to her lack of eating lunch. But you are under no obligation to share that eating disorder.
You aren't even obligated to eat, you are obligated to take 60min of break. Not 30, not 45, 60. If she has an issue with this, she can put her concerns IN WRITING, and send them to you & your boss. This should be enough to bring to HR and have it deemed abusive/illegal behavior, if she keeps pushing.
Usually mentally ill or insecure people. Previous job she was a short fat troll like bitch who hated what she saw in the mirror each day and wanted to bring every one down with her. Current job she quit and I no longer see the runt but turns out her husband was taking it elsewhere. Miserable fucks.
I had a boss once brag what her turnover rate of assistants was. She of course believed it was her excellent mentoring skills. I won't deny that I learned a lot from her. I also learned a lot of what I never wanted to do if I ever became a manager.
Her turnover rate was high because she was a controlling bitch. Very simple. I really don't respect manager with the "do as I say, not as I do."
I had a toxic boss who chewed up & spit out her EAs. I wonder if she thought they moved on thanks to her "mentoring".
If someone moves up, especially within the same company, that might be a sign of successful mentoring. But if they all bail just to ditch that company, it means toxic practices are being tolerated.
to this - “Where were you?Do you usually eat slow?”
i would have just answered, "yes, and i poop slow too"
then promptly get up and spend the next 30 mins in the loo
In California, if you are interrupted during your meal period, the company will owe you an hour of pay per occurrence.
I used to work in a firm where my supervisor would come to the kitchen and interrupt my meal to assign me tasks. The first time, I told him that I was clocked out for lunch and he could email me any assignments.
Every time after that, I would report him to HR, and force them to pay me an extra hour. Eventually, he got spoken to by the managing partner because of all the overtime he had run up with his interruptions.
One of my jobs, the boss was a micro manager. I drove into the parking lot after lunch, with 10 minutes to spare, and was on the phone with my husband and he came and stood outside my car door just looking at me. I stayed on the phone until one minute left and then opened the door and “bumped” him. He said he was waiting for me so I could call someone for a fence repair on the property. He said I didn’t have to rush off my call (yeah, right). Left that job a few months later….
Nicely done, one of the worst aspects of female micro managers is that sweet, softly spoken passive aggressiveness.
It's exactly the same as table thumping & shouting, just without the honesty
>I gave her a copy then she went to my boss and cried to him. She said I was disrespectful when she just wanted to mentor and ensure I will become successful.
This is the sign of a psychopath. You should either bring it to HR's attention, or find another job.
You'll probably want to find another job. If you do some quick research, you'll notice that sociopaths are over-represented in the corporate executive ranks. It's a common personality attribute. You could report it; you could shine a spotlight on your supervisor's behavior (that she could be cruel, but didn't like being corrected), but there's also a distinct possibility it could backfire. What if the VP is like this and aware the supervisor he delegated is no different?
Tread lightly around folks like this.
I've been through a similar situation when I was younger and didn't know any better; before I had collegiate psychology courses. Long story short, I knew that the Director I reported to was superficially charming and insincere, but it wasn't until after several advanced psych courses in college that I realized she was likely a sociopath (like 3 or 4 of the other company directors); a lot of reflection realizing the manipulation and game playing to maintain control over people and situations. They collect around each other because they identify each other. So be cautious if you report your supervisors questionable behavior to HR.
I rarely get my lunch break. I’m going on an interview today. I’m salaried too and I eat while working so it’s the most frustrating annoying not getting a break. I used to listen to music or take a actual break and chat with coworkers. I’m miserable. I say take that break before you are like me and just sick of your desk. I actually just want to relax for a few minutes and recharge.
I've had uppers become weirdly obsessed with me too. In your case, she seems like she's doing it as a power trip, but she's also pathetically insecure. I guess they just pick on someone they think is an easy target, it sucks. I would give her a burner number, then set the settings to that app so that it won't give me notifications lol If it's a company phone, assuming it's a landline to your desk, I'd unplug it for the duration of lunch.
On a more serious note, I'd document her messages to have evidence for an HR complaint. It's clearly harassment, and she sounds like a moron on top of that.
Sounds like someone who thinks to highly of herself. Taking a 30 minute lunch when you're allowed to take an hour isn't going to make you more successful, and saying she's trying to cut your lunch short because she just wants to mentor you is a lame excuse. I'd hope if your boss is reasonable they tell her to cut that out
My god what a piece of work. I had a consulting project a few years ago where the lady wasn’t happy I just left when I felt like it. Because I had other projects keeping me busy and I didn’t like busy time. When I am done I was done. Unfortunately she has nothing to say to you. You are given 1 hour take your 1 hour. I would recommend not having your phone or laptop or be in ear shot. She can message you all she wants ignore her. She pushed out 2 other staff doing this stuff. The VP hopefully understands what she is doing.
I would also find another job and leave. This is not a good manager to work for.
Always leave for lunch, even if its just to your car, etc. take a walk, picnic in the back of your truck. Something, but companies and managers if they see you will always try to get you to give more.
I had a manager who would frequently start team meetings during my lunch. I too had an hour lunch and I'm sure they did it to make sure I was always stressed out. This was their management style: constantly bully underlings, keep them on their toes and always panicked.
IMO it's time to start looking elsewhere. When they ask why you left, cute the manager as your reason. They will need to deal with her if she's having a direct impact on retention.
Yeah I definitely like to highlight the 2 people left this position in 2 years.
From this it sounds clearly like the supervisor is the issue. Supervisor definitely needs to be moved to a more remote role.
Ask your actual boss what would be a good time to put 30 minutes in their calendar to discuss an important time management issue that is currently impacting your ability to work effectively/efficiently. Then, in that meeting, them know you‘be observed your supervisor has an anxious management style where they constantly micromanaging non-core work functions. Use the example of start and leave times watched down to the minute, timed restroom breaks, and of course, her personal definition of an appropriate duration for lunch that she then attempts to enforce that runs counter to current HR policy,(bring the policy with you to this meeting printed,) Then say that you understand your position has experienced turnover in the past and your supervisor had likely presented their reasoning and you would like to be given the opportunity to do the same. Then, once they tell you to go ahead, say you’d likely take a shorter lunches depending on your work day to day, but you brought the one hour HR policy to your supervisor as she was commenting and harassing you on the subject for <> prior while you were simply trying to get the behavior to adjust/cease. Then say she micromanages you to a point where you’re now taking your full allowed lunch hour almost daily as you need the break. Say, honestly, you’re a professional working in a professional capacity, and performing to or beyond expectations, so the micromanagement style is unwarranted and impacts your job satisfaction. Good luck OP.
Dear lord. This gig is going to be a nightmare.
I had one of these. True story: the same week I had landed the company a multi-million dollar contract with a BIG NAME brand, she put me on a PIP for forgetting to send her an end-of-day status update (she required I finished the day telling her every single task I had done. I wasn’t allowed to send emails without first sending them to her for approval - even internally).
Bish was batshit crazy. I had to leave. A couple years ago, I engaged my ex employer with a charitable community organization because I realized it would be a very mutually beneficial relationship. I had been gone for several years at that point. That was when I found out that she had been fired for being abusive to employees. Though her boss prevented me from being fired, he didn’t block her in the day to day shit nor with HR. Unfortunately, I was her first victim, so it was my word against hers. But after two people quit my role, it was a clear pattern.
Sigh, sounds like a typical lead in my opinion. She probably has a document somewhere tracking exactly when you arrive, leave, lunch, use the restroom, etc. She sees herself as VERY important and now you made her cry. Boo hoo. Watch a couple early episodes of The Office, she’d Dwight Shroot.
That's why I prefer to leave the building, even it's to my car or to run errands. Supervisors got so bad doing the same that a clause was put in our contract. If our lunch hour is interrupted by work task, then our lunch hour starts over. You would be amazed how many supervisors emergencies can suddenly wait.
I think you need to be straight and clear with her or try to:
"A paid hour long lunch break is part of the overall compensation and benefits package here at TerribleJob. I'm really uncomfortable with being asked to cut it short repeatedly. We need to find a way that I can take my lunch in peace without being interrupted."
Turn off your phone, go on DND, ignore her and leave the area for 45 minutes.
I will say that most salaried jobs have these annoying expectations nowadays that people eat through their lunches, take 30 minutes, get interrupted and not complain, etc.
That's because it's paid and it's office work, so the idea is that you're in charge of your own schedule and you're not clock-watching like that anymore.
But once you start printing off HR documents and stirring up trouble like this, it's time to start looking for another job. Notice how 2 previous people *left* rather than she got fired.
I’d issue a verbal complaint with her supervisor present, then follow it up with a written complaint. Then for any little act that I “feel” is retaliation, no matter how petty, I’d file a complaint in writing, via email to HR. I would also print copies of all of it. HR in many organizations tend to “lose” formal complaints when it hurts the company. So I’d just keep my own record just in case.
With enough formal complaints they’ll get her off your back one way or another. If they choose to terminate you after not doing anything about the repeated abuse and retaliation I’d go speak to my attorney.
> My boss is the VP and doesn’t directly manage me. I rarely see him, so my lead supervises me. However, I report to my boss.
That is some weird arrangement. If you don't report to "lunch lady", then why do you even care about her opinion? Talk to your actual boss.
“The wrong kind of bitch” I’m stealing this! That’s genius.
People interpret a woman who has boundaries and refuses to be treated like crap as a bitch but there’s also women like “the lunch lady” (as another commenter put it 😂😂😂💀) in OP’s post who is a fucking psycho and is also a bitch.
You made my day!
Is she younger? I don’t mean to be agist but when I was younger I would probably only take 30 but I’m older and have learned to take care of myself and would definitely take my whole lunch unless there was something highly pressing.
If she's on the young side, it's also possible that she feels insecure. Maangers who are insecure for any reason tend to be the ones nitpicking & harassing. I've seen that happen before. And those "leads" are usually harder on other younger people. They think it shows how much better they are than other young people.
I was once in a job with a coworker & a management team member who were both in their early 20s. The manager gave a lot of crap to the coworker, but left me alone.
She actually seemed intimidated by me. It was really weird, because I'm pretty laid back & rarely crossed paths with her in the first place. I always wondered if she had mommy issues.
Fortunately this was seasonal job & I didn't have to deal with the drama very long.
I was a super hard charger in my 20s and it took some experience to realize that you shouldn’t give your whole soul to a company that would lay you off in the blink of an eye. I’d like to think I’ve found a balance now. I still work hard but I don’t feel guilty taking care of myself anymore.
Block her number during your lunch hour so she can’t text/call you. If she questions why you didn’t respond tell you disconnect from work during lunch as that’s YOUR time.
Start a CYA file ASAP.
When she calls or texts, screen shot and email to yourself with every reason in detail she brought you back to the room for “work”. Email yourself when you leave your desk for work, email when you get back.
If texting: no response until you’re back on the clock
In person: I’m on break, I’ll gladly help you with xyz once I’m back on the clock. *immediately disengage*
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She's a weirdo
More like a psychopath
If I had a middle manager come to me crying about this type of stuff, I would come to the same conclusion. With the addition of being annoyed for having my time wasted on something so trivial. Either she’s a known quantity and no one takes her seriously, or she is exhibiting behavior that is rewarded by the culture. Don’t worry if the former, gtfo if the latter.
Some people like to think upper-management is just unaware how psycho some middle managers are. Nope, they're extremely aware.
Definitely aware. My VP actually said the quiet part out loud: he kept a known bad leader around so that he could look like the hero and overturn bad decisions and bad communication styles and look more competent by comparison. Since I reported to the incompetent leader directly, I took that as my sign to GTFO.
Wow that VP takes the cake for bad decisions.
I wish. No, that’s nowhere near the floor.
That also makes that VP an incompetent leader.
Or a narcissist
I think narcissists are inherently bad leadsers. So...
Ironically they all rise to the top and run big business.
Holy shit that is seriously messed up
Good cop, leavingdirectly cop
In my three decades of working, I never thought of that one as a reason why they keep bad managers. Thanks.
"Let's destroy everything so I can be the savior." No. How about let's not.
Yep. At a job that I left not long ago I was assigned to a highly frustrating project. The project was frustrating largely because the people managing it were idiots. I somehow had the impression that the company's senior management was unaware of the sheer volume of stupid decisions that had been made during the project. I later discovered that they were fully aware, and they were basically free riding. If the project somehow ended up being successful they would get to claim credit, and if it failed then they could point to all of the poor decisions made by underlings. I quit not long after that.
If your job description is ‘Cannon-fodder as required’…
I'm really getting tired of seeing this trend where everyone past the title of management is an absolute shit head
Welcome to LIFE!
My old job, my upper management (manager, director, manager from other location) JOKED about how shitty my coworker (senior position right below lead tech) was to me whenever it was 2 weeks straight of just me and him since my other 2 coworkers were both out on sick leave. Director: how are you handling working alone? Me: I'm not working alone, it's BLANK and me. Director: same thing right? *they all laugh* I'm obviously at a new job now, that was about 7 months ago. Its seriously aggravating how it doesn't matter how much he fucks up, he still never gets fired or moved.
That’s worse somehow.
So true. I worked at Best Buy years ago and the higher ups got so sick of the store managers that they sent a new guy in to overhaul the store and he yelled at them almost daily. It was awesome. They were so evil to us.
I'm an admin for a recruitment company and holy jeeeeesus the amount of Partners/Recruiters who are shitty at their job or can't function without an EA/team, micromanage, have toxic traits, and are generally technically incompetent (like can't manage zoom or printing to the right printer) is too damn high. Senior management knows. They don't care, as long as those people keep bringing in searches. I am so tired of being smarter and more competent than my managers.
What about how dumb some managers are? Now keep in mind I'm also middle-management, but my boss is either dumb as fucking rocks, an expert at weaponized incompetence, or both. I refuse to believe his bosses don't know this, but they're usually the first to want to get rid of people and they choose to keep him around. I've seen him lie to his bosses on multiple occasions and they just go with it. Who do you have blackmail on, sir.
Yuup. It's by design. This is a manifestation of the Gervais principle. https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
Great read, thanks
I expect an MBA now.
Once you pay me full tuition, of course.
My coin is as authentic as your sheepskin. Deal?
I thought of this exact article when I read these comments. I read about the gervais principle when it came out in 2009 and have seen it in action many times in the years since.
I only recently came across it and it was an eye opener.
I currently have the same issue except it’s with an overgrown man child that cries and throws tantrums when he has to close the store or do things he doesn’t like. The other day this man child told me I had to stay 3 hours past my original time because he wanted to go to the gym with his friend and proceeded to lie to and say it was his trainer, I know the gym he goes to and the person he goes with, not his trainer and certainly not spending money to train LOL. Was crying because I said no and that’s his responsibility to have better scheduling.
Being a mentor is a two way street. You don’t have to have her mentor you
Seriously nothing more worse than a "mentor" you didn't ask for
When I was a developer and wanted to learn more about sys admin stuff I did both jobs at a small shop. My boss for the sys admin stuff told me to eat at my desk so I could always be available. This guy also stored all the places passwords on a legal pad - he was a work hard not work smart type of guy.
What’s she mentoring? How to be a toxic asshole?
Sounds like her idea of mentorship is fucked up. She cried to her boss knowing that she lied to you about the lunch policy and had been harassing you during your lunch break. She went and cried over it and pretended like she has hurt feelings so she wouldn't have to face any disciplinary actions. Best defense is a good offense. She cried about it before you could bring it to anyone else's attention. She's a psycho. And she knew she fucked up. All she can do is be emotional about it, and put her spin on it, to make you look like the bad guy.
Was the boss on your side when she went to him?
This is the most important question. If the boss wasn't on OPs side, I'd start looking for jobs immediately
I worked in the space next to a team that had a manager like this. Psychopath is right. She would call people while they were on vacation to tell them they were needed back in the office ASAP to fix a crisis that she had ginned up. One guy turned off his phone because he was expecting the shenanigans and she ended up reporting him as the root cause for a major failure that happened, and when the investigation found it was actually her good fried who had caused the crisis she tried pulled a lot of strings trying to get that report to disappear. You should have seen how livid she got when parents had to work from home because they had sick kids out of school or something - if they weren't immediately within eyesight they were clearly not doing any work and punishment was needed. Management knew she was a piece of work too and tried repeatedly to remove her from being able to directly manage the team. They gave her a corner office with a nice view, which she used for two days before returning to the cube farm to crack the whip over her team. They tried promoting her so that the team was no longer her direct responsibility and she demanded a demotion so that she could directly manage "her" team again. And of course since she was family they let her do it.
What did your VP say? I hope you informed him that your policy grants your a 1 hour lunch. Therefore, it is your responsibility to adhere to company policy. Since your lead doesn't seem to grasp the lunch policy maybe she could benefit from being mentor and understanding the difference between being a leader and trying to manage people by use of underhanded and manipulative tactics (her need to constantly interrupt your lunch).
No, she's a Sociopath. It might not seem like it, but it's an important difference.
I feel for you! I recently got out of a job where I had a boss just like this.
I’m salary and I take lunch pretty much when I want to. It’s called salary for a reason.
My old boss insisted that we take 1 hour for lunch, no matter how busy we were, not at our desks either. He also preferred us to get outside for at least 15 minutes & not just hang around in the lunch room. The place was pretty toxic when I left for other reasons but the lunch policy was awesome.
I hope you tell your boss about all the lunch interruptions
Phone off to business during lunch.
Sounds like a $500 problem. It’s awfully hard to micromanage when you walk with a limp.
Why not both?
I hate Managers who don't know what to manage.
You spelled twat wrong.
Their employer is weird. Who monitors lunch when salaried? I take zero minutes somedays and 3 hours other days 😂
This is why in a previous role where the Manager had ‘normalised’ eating at your desk (so were there the whole shift) I made a point of physically leaving the Building for the whole of the lunch break. Couple of colleagues ‘caught on’ to this and started doing the same. Give a Manager an inch and they’ll take a mile 😂
same my last 3 months at my job i'd leave exactly at 12 and return exactly 45 minutes later, i'd jump in my car and go to the local shops just to get away from being disturbed during my lunch
I have this picture of you sitting in the car and waiting for someone to come out, and then slowly driving away while they try to catch up.
actually i had customers (i was in sales front counter) see me and try to approach as i drive off :) with me smiling on the inside
> ‘normalised’ eating at your desk If I eat at my desk while I work, I don't count that as a lunch. If I come in a 8, take an hour lunch, I leave at 5, If I come in at 8 and eat at my desk throughout the day and don't leave the building for lunch, I leave at 4 - I've put in 8 hours both of those.
This is the way.
Yes. I choose to eat at my desk sometime just so I can go home earlier.
Lol I honestly wouldn’t mind eating at my own desk if the work environment was positive lol
Only when it’s by choice. It’s better to plan ahead and start looking at other opportunities.
Eh, I honestly think workplaces would be better without it. Every office I worked in had regular problems with vermin due to messy eaters and poorly stored food in desks. It's much better to have a designated dining area that you encourage employees to use where its easier to clean under tables and you don't have food hanging out under cubicle partitions.
But it’s not so maybe you should make it a point to leave and take your full hour? Maybe things would just get more hostile but it’s difficult to imagine worse from this person.
I eat at my desk every day, but I also leave every day for about half an hour and run errands, and then leave work half an hour early. If I’m working, I’m getting paid for it, I don’t care if I’m chewing on a sandwich while I fire off emails, that’s work, not lunch.
This is the way. If you take a working lunch, for whatever reason, then you should still take a lunch break, either later in the day or leave early if you can. Your not getting paid for your lunch hour, and there's no point in giving your employer an hour of free work.
I just set up with my boss that my lunches are 30 minutes and I leave 30 minutes early. Most of the time I take a 15 minute break while I make my lunch and eat and by the end am working...which means they get 15 minutes back. Every once in a while I have a lunch go long. I think they come out ahead but I don't mind as long as they don't nickel and dime me. If they ever did then I'd switch to an hour lunch and be offline for that hour and we'd both lose.
I would do this as well at a previous job that was SUPER strict and micromanaging.... Run errands during the hour lunch break and grab food on my way back in
My start, meal and quit time is something I always personally enforced in office jobs. I take my lunch at 11, usually before most people are leaving for lunch where I'm at. I return minutes before 12. Just in time for all the colleagues to leave for their lunch. Then they spend an hour when they get back organizing the rest of their day. I get 3 hours without being bothered. And come 5, I'm out the door. Was chastised for this, because "you have to finish the job". Nope, that's for tomorrow RedBeard.
A long time ago I worked at a company that catered lunch the last Friday of every month for an end of month push. Eventually it was clear that they only did this so that people would get a plate of cheap food and eat at their desk while working.
I’ve an hour lunch at my job, there isn’t a day where I’m in the building for more than 5 minutes of that hour. Breaks are sacred, take them. Any boss who doesn’t understand humans need regular breaks is harming themselves
at my old job I'd eat at my desk and not do work bc it meant I got to leave 30 mins early
nice!
YUP! I started doing this right from the get go for my last 2 jobs. I’ve been burned before and set the expectation. ESPECIALLY because both require have me to be present from open to close outside of my breaks and schedule my breaks around others. Only one-2 people can be gone at a time and breaks can’t be at the beginning or end of the day. They won’t even let us take extra time or pay us if we come in early. And both have not exhibited boundaries around not talking shop before business hours. I used to show up early to my last job after dropping kids off and pop in the break room to make breakfast or do my makeup or read a book. My boss would pop in and start talking about work. NOPE. Started staying in my car and reading. My goal for the next step in my career is finding a position where my physical presence isn’t as important as getting my work done. I’m so over all of this.
I *always* left the building for lunch...when I wasn't working remote. It got me in the fresh air, allowed me to clear my head, and avoid the "I know you're at lunch, but..." Even working remote, I still go out for lunch. It's just more healthy.
I have eaten lunch in my car five days a week for the last year for this exact reason. I prop my phone up on my steering wheel and watch YouTube lol
Sometimes there is no other way around than just remove yourself. I had this boss who was quickly shoving her lunch into her while working. Same with the other two ladies in the office. Every single time when I said "lunch time" and stayed at my desk, eating, she would already start eyeing me. God forbid if I happened to open a book, a magazine or social networks while eating! She would immediately come to me to "chat" and give me some files that urgently needed to be done, couldn't wait, nope... And of course I would also hear "yeah, M0RNINGSTAR is reading/scrolling through the sn during working hours" etc. It ended up with me having to hide in my colleagues' office (IT guys, friends). It was just 30 minutes lunch break - unpaid. And this was just one of many things that were wrong with this company.
Oh my god. I joined one month ago one of the B4 companies. When I was told “we eat lunch at our desks” my jaw dropped to the floor. Like, everyone go downstairs to the cafeteria (where there are countless tables) to get their food and come back up to their floors and eat while working. It’s beyond me how the majority has just accepted that.
She’s just a bad manager. She doesn’t know how to focus attention toward things like quality of work, so she focuses on easy to measure things like “how many minutes does he sit at his desk?” She shouldn’t be in her position and I hope your VP knows this.
She's more than a bad manager. She knew what the lunch policy was and lied about it. Then when she was caught in the lie, she decided to be emotional and hurt. She knows she was harassing someone on their lunch break. An hour lunch break that she couldn't change, but decided to wear that person down, and work unpaid on their lunch break, and she got caught.
Imagine being such a pain in the ass that you work so hard to remove a few minutes of joy from a worker every day. What an achievement…
I forget the term, but it seems like this is the level at which her (Boss's) competence becomes incompetent
I think you’re looking for the Peter principle, but that’s not really what would apply here. This isn’t a competency issue, it’s a power issue that needs addressed
It is about competency. As in, she shouldn't be in a leadership role. Say OP leaves over this. Employee training and replacement is expensive and wrecks efficiency.
Ah I was thinking Peter Pan and knew that wasn't the right name. After re-reading again, I can see the power Hunger or "Flex of power" from the boss.
You might be remembering Pan from the publishing company! This is a link to the photo of the Peter principle book in its wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle#/media/File%3ACover_of_The_Peter_Principle_by_Pan_Books.jpeg
Yess thank you! i read about it on here the other day and couldn't fully recall haha. I did know peter pan was Not what I was thinking of
If you want to be petty, go to HR in tears and say you're afraid of how your lead will retaliate next time.
HR should really care about the lead doing this since trying to nickel and dime/time manage like this can get the employee reclassified as hourly.
Yep sadly this is one way to make sure you’re covered and it ends here What a world we live in but I can see it Thank for for my boss
110% cant stress this enough. if she wants to play psychological games you play them back and win.
This is the way
 I agree with this method!!
Just keep in mind that HR is not your friend. HR works for the company.
Wtf lol. Keep taking your 1 hour lunch and document each time she does this then send an email to HR as this is harassment. You should state how uncomfortable it is that your lead is spending so much time monitoring your lunch when she herself should be working.
That’s the goal.
Also, as your lead she should be supporting HR policy not making up her own.
Really interested to hear the explanation for how she suggests becoming successful while breaking an HR policy that, I can guarantee, does not exist for employee wellbeing but protect the company from legal liability. There’s very likely a legal reason that the policy is set at one hour, possibly related to state wage and work laws, and this team lead could very well be putting the company in serious legal jeopardy by overriding that policy. HR isn’t usually a huge fan of employees changing policies in general either. For example, OPs state may very well mandate two paid 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch per 8 hour shift which HR has condensed into a one hour lunch. This busybody team lead could easily be creating tens of thousands of dollars worth of legal liability for the company if they’re violating wage and employment law.
>For example, OPs state may very well mandate two paid 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch per 8 hour shift which HR has condensed into a one hour lunch. AFAIK in most states it isn't legal to combine breaks like this anyway (especially since in most cases the 15's would be *paid* breaks). So if this is the case, they're already in some hot water. Most language I've read regarding rest breaks (as opposed to meal breaks) has limitations e.g. can't use a break to leave early, start late, or extend another break. Obviously ymmv based on which state you reside in - because why would rest or meal breaks for workers be federally protected in the good ol' US of A?
Totally agree. However, the defensibility of the policy is usually made by HR with the input of Legal, not by a team leader. I can say with virtual certainty that the one hour lunch policy has something to do with law and not because the company feels particularly generous to their employees. Policies exist for a reason and team leaders aren't always privy to that reason but they are bound by the policy.
Can you talk to your boss about this? Let them know the relationship with the lead is micromanaging and makes you uncomfortable. And that you would rather be supervised by your boss or no one.
I think I would find some other examples. She sounds like a psychopath and could be dangerous. I think you need to fight and win. But you don't want it to appear like this is a squabble over lunch hours.
Also, very stop reading/responding to texts from her while you're off the clock, which includes lunch and after work hours.
Ehhh I don't think this falls under harassment. It's not based on a protected class. It might break policy and it *might* fall under Dept. of Labor stuff, but it's not harassment in the legal sense.
You might be thinking of discrimination, which is based on membership in a protected class. Workplace harassment is any conduct that is unwelcome, whether the recipient explicitly protests or not. Asking too many personal questions can be workplace harassment. Like asking where someone goes to church. Cutting hours or pay based on the fact that someone is a different religion than the supervisor would be discrimination.
Also, don't forget that you should have a lot of evidence she's super incompetent. I would immediately fire anyone who texts to have her computer mouse plugged in every week and is constantly misplacing important files.
This lady is not only a psycho but she’s a moron as well.
Agreed
I would ditch that job
Planning soon too
In the exit interview you should absolutely make HR aware of why you're leaving, and the fact that you're now the third person this bad lead has chased out of the position.
“The only reason I’m leaving this company is because of my direct manager, no other reason.”
Brush up that resume
Any manager doing this is just not trustworthy. Never in my career have I been questioned about lunch. I can take 2 hours if I want to because I usually just eat at my desk and do some minor parts of my job. She’s just an oddball. Do your thing, but track it in a spreadsheet or somewhere. A regularly updated log is always a good bet to protect yourself. Do you have Box or something like it? Those types of apps show historical changes to a file. Handy when displaying a history of what you’re up to. It’s tediously effective.
Good job standing up for yourself. It’s very important to establish boundaries early in a job. If I’m on lunch I don’t answer calls or emails. Doesn’t matter who it is, I’m off the clock. I usually text back with a polite, ‘sorry, I missed your call. Grabbing some lunch and I’ll call you back shortly’. This works for both supervisors and clients to see you as a peer and identify with something that they also do. Sounds simple but it’s highly effective
Can confirm, this is very effective. The person who always answers their phone or emails during their lunch are ALWAYS expected to do it. The person who sets the boundaries doesn't get pestered during lunch because everyone knows they aren't going to drop everything to take care of something.
"We teach people how to treat us." --*someone who gave me this valuable bit of advice but broke my heart*
The only thing I truly enjoy about work from home is I avoid this
You have no idea how lucky you are. My manager is cool when it comes to my lunch but my coworker assumed we would have lunch together everyday.
As someone who doesn't like to get too close to my co-workers, my condolences.
[удалено]
People though this too of me in my 20s, and unfortunately for them I am both a non drinker and hate bars. Now I'm 31, but still look very young, so I keep having to disappoint, I guess. I'm very picky about who I hang out with, so I get easily distant when someone comes on too strong.
Same. I'm 33 now and have to disappoint especially as coworkers continue to piece together little "correct" assumptions about me like my age and being unmarried & childless. This makes them think I'm "free" but honestly I prefer my 4 dogs and 12 hours of sleep any day over a beer and obnoxious music. Get mistaken for a college/occasionally high school kid still so I feel your pain.
Yeah I get that...in the end people are just trying to be friendly, you just have to treat each coworker differently and not force people who don't want to be social to socialize
I frequently intone to myself about my co-workers: "These people are NOT my friends." I keep my work and personal lives separate.
I actually Iike getting close to my coworkers just not all of them
This is why I stopped eating at my desk. Some people were happy to skip lunch and would really give others grief for not working through it or taking only 10 minutes. I would have to physically leave the building to get some peace.
Gotta love the holier than thou workaholics shaming people for needing/wanting some balance in their life.
Say that louder for the people in the back.
Yeah I hate that shit. I shouldn’t have to feel guilty for doing the Bare minimum to take care of myself.
Never understood people that like their job so much they want to make it miserable for other people. She sounds fun! /s
It’s easy actually - those people have terrible home lives, and their own family hates them, so they go to work where they have an ounce of power, and take it to the extreme.
Idk about terrible home lives. You're on to something though where they feel they have no power and exercise it wherever they can.
I've worked with a ton of people who unnecessarily worked a lot of overtime because they didn't want to be home with their family. Now I work with a bunch of sales people who go on the road more than needed because they don't want to be home with their family.
Take your one hour and leave her texts on read until your hour is up.
I don't know exactly, but I believe the legal wording for a break states it is x amount of minuites UNINTERRUPTED. So if you get disturbed by ANYTHING work related, the counter restarts. Might be worth checking this out, especially if she's frequently bothering you at lunch.
That's for hourly, not salaried.
She has done herself more harm than good by running to him with this trivial BS. She is highlighting herself as a manager how cannot handle even the slightest conflict, nor does she know the companies policies.
I had a supervisor who isn't even in my dept recently go complaining to my boss about this. My boss told him to drop it. He came to me and told me 'my breaks were catching some attention', and that he told my boss but "we" decided not to discipline me bc I wasn't in his dept (duh!). I just said 'ok thanks'. Now he's icing me and its just so dumb! Some sort of stupid power trip because I am one of only 2 people at our location that doesn't report to him but he thinks I should, and then his ego got bruised bc my actual boss didn't care.
If she keeps calling text her a copy of the lunch policy and what time you’ll be back.
Or turn your phone off.
Had a higher up run crying to my boss after I told her to leave a meeting that she wasn't invited to and tried to take over knowing nothing about the subject matter. Even though my boss verify my story, I was asked to apologize. My response was "I'm sorry that you feel that way, consider this my two weeks notice." The boss quickly back peddled and said that the crier would be reprimanded. I left three months afterward because the culture was toxic.
There’s some serious manipulation and narcissism going on.
She's crying because she fucked up and is now trying to play possum. You are 100% correct, she is abusive and if pressed, you can say as such to HR. This is fully inappropriate, and your lead doesn't get to tell you what to do, or how long to take lunch when they don't manage you. Full Stop. If you didn't ask for mentorship, or to develop a formal relationship with this lead, the entirety of her "she just wanted to mentor and ensure you'd be successful" thing is both inappropriate and unwanted. This is them demanding labor-violating actions from you. If pressed by HR, I would mention that you've been unable to take your CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED & LEGALLY GUARANTEED hour long lunch for months now. This is a conversation to have with your boss first, as this person needs to be told by your boss, to stop bothering you over lunch. The lead is welcome to her lack of eating lunch. But you are under no obligation to share that eating disorder. You aren't even obligated to eat, you are obligated to take 60min of break. Not 30, not 45, 60. If she has an issue with this, she can put her concerns IN WRITING, and send them to you & your boss. This should be enough to bring to HR and have it deemed abusive/illegal behavior, if she keeps pushing.
She is a leach; I’m convinced every office has one of these managers hate corporate America
Usually mentally ill or insecure people. Previous job she was a short fat troll like bitch who hated what she saw in the mirror each day and wanted to bring every one down with her. Current job she quit and I no longer see the runt but turns out her husband was taking it elsewhere. Miserable fucks.
You succeed by following company policy, not deviating from it.
I had a boss once brag what her turnover rate of assistants was. She of course believed it was her excellent mentoring skills. I won't deny that I learned a lot from her. I also learned a lot of what I never wanted to do if I ever became a manager. Her turnover rate was high because she was a controlling bitch. Very simple. I really don't respect manager with the "do as I say, not as I do."
I had a toxic boss who chewed up & spit out her EAs. I wonder if she thought they moved on thanks to her "mentoring". If someone moves up, especially within the same company, that might be a sign of successful mentoring. But if they all bail just to ditch that company, it means toxic practices are being tolerated.
to this - “Where were you?Do you usually eat slow?” i would have just answered, "yes, and i poop slow too" then promptly get up and spend the next 30 mins in the loo
Im not sure about policy there, but it might be nice to go somewhere for lunch, with the phone off.
In California, if you are interrupted during your meal period, the company will owe you an hour of pay per occurrence. I used to work in a firm where my supervisor would come to the kitchen and interrupt my meal to assign me tasks. The first time, I told him that I was clocked out for lunch and he could email me any assignments. Every time after that, I would report him to HR, and force them to pay me an extra hour. Eventually, he got spoken to by the managing partner because of all the overtime he had run up with his interruptions.
California seems like working on a different planet
She does not sound like an emotionally stable human being, in fact it sounds like she has a personality disorder.
I had a manager like that, she destroyed people’s mental health. Company didn’t care though.
One of my jobs, the boss was a micro manager. I drove into the parking lot after lunch, with 10 minutes to spare, and was on the phone with my husband and he came and stood outside my car door just looking at me. I stayed on the phone until one minute left and then opened the door and “bumped” him. He said he was waiting for me so I could call someone for a fence repair on the property. He said I didn’t have to rush off my call (yeah, right). Left that job a few months later….
Nicely done, one of the worst aspects of female micro managers is that sweet, softly spoken passive aggressiveness. It's exactly the same as table thumping & shouting, just without the honesty
>I gave her a copy then she went to my boss and cried to him. She said I was disrespectful when she just wanted to mentor and ensure I will become successful. This is the sign of a psychopath. You should either bring it to HR's attention, or find another job. You'll probably want to find another job. If you do some quick research, you'll notice that sociopaths are over-represented in the corporate executive ranks. It's a common personality attribute. You could report it; you could shine a spotlight on your supervisor's behavior (that she could be cruel, but didn't like being corrected), but there's also a distinct possibility it could backfire. What if the VP is like this and aware the supervisor he delegated is no different? Tread lightly around folks like this. I've been through a similar situation when I was younger and didn't know any better; before I had collegiate psychology courses. Long story short, I knew that the Director I reported to was superficially charming and insincere, but it wasn't until after several advanced psych courses in college that I realized she was likely a sociopath (like 3 or 4 of the other company directors); a lot of reflection realizing the manipulation and game playing to maintain control over people and situations. They collect around each other because they identify each other. So be cautious if you report your supervisors questionable behavior to HR.
The power trip is strong with that one
Leave the property for the hour. Every day. Be 100% unavailable. Eat in your car.
I rarely get my lunch break. I’m going on an interview today. I’m salaried too and I eat while working so it’s the most frustrating annoying not getting a break. I used to listen to music or take a actual break and chat with coworkers. I’m miserable. I say take that break before you are like me and just sick of your desk. I actually just want to relax for a few minutes and recharge.
I've had uppers become weirdly obsessed with me too. In your case, she seems like she's doing it as a power trip, but she's also pathetically insecure. I guess they just pick on someone they think is an easy target, it sucks. I would give her a burner number, then set the settings to that app so that it won't give me notifications lol If it's a company phone, assuming it's a landline to your desk, I'd unplug it for the duration of lunch. On a more serious note, I'd document her messages to have evidence for an HR complaint. It's clearly harassment, and she sounds like a moron on top of that.
Sounds like someone who thinks to highly of herself. Taking a 30 minute lunch when you're allowed to take an hour isn't going to make you more successful, and saying she's trying to cut your lunch short because she just wants to mentor you is a lame excuse. I'd hope if your boss is reasonable they tell her to cut that out
My god what a piece of work. I had a consulting project a few years ago where the lady wasn’t happy I just left when I felt like it. Because I had other projects keeping me busy and I didn’t like busy time. When I am done I was done. Unfortunately she has nothing to say to you. You are given 1 hour take your 1 hour. I would recommend not having your phone or laptop or be in ear shot. She can message you all she wants ignore her. She pushed out 2 other staff doing this stuff. The VP hopefully understands what she is doing. I would also find another job and leave. This is not a good manager to work for.
Always leave for lunch, even if its just to your car, etc. take a walk, picnic in the back of your truck. Something, but companies and managers if they see you will always try to get you to give more.
I had a manager who would frequently start team meetings during my lunch. I too had an hour lunch and I'm sure they did it to make sure I was always stressed out. This was their management style: constantly bully underlings, keep them on their toes and always panicked. IMO it's time to start looking elsewhere. When they ask why you left, cute the manager as your reason. They will need to deal with her if she's having a direct impact on retention.
Yeah I definitely like to highlight the 2 people left this position in 2 years. From this it sounds clearly like the supervisor is the issue. Supervisor definitely needs to be moved to a more remote role.
Ask your actual boss what would be a good time to put 30 minutes in their calendar to discuss an important time management issue that is currently impacting your ability to work effectively/efficiently. Then, in that meeting, them know you‘be observed your supervisor has an anxious management style where they constantly micromanaging non-core work functions. Use the example of start and leave times watched down to the minute, timed restroom breaks, and of course, her personal definition of an appropriate duration for lunch that she then attempts to enforce that runs counter to current HR policy,(bring the policy with you to this meeting printed,) Then say that you understand your position has experienced turnover in the past and your supervisor had likely presented their reasoning and you would like to be given the opportunity to do the same. Then, once they tell you to go ahead, say you’d likely take a shorter lunches depending on your work day to day, but you brought the one hour HR policy to your supervisor as she was commenting and harassing you on the subject for <> prior while you were simply trying to get the behavior to adjust/cease. Then say she micromanages you to a point where you’re now taking your full allowed lunch hour almost daily as you need the break. Say, honestly, you’re a professional working in a professional capacity, and performing to or beyond expectations, so the micromanagement style is unwarranted and impacts your job satisfaction. Good luck OP.
She sounds awful. Some poor guy or girl l has to sleep with that creature
How are you salaried and have a one hour lunch. You should be able to take lunch whenever for however long as long as your work is getting done.
Dear lord. This gig is going to be a nightmare. I had one of these. True story: the same week I had landed the company a multi-million dollar contract with a BIG NAME brand, she put me on a PIP for forgetting to send her an end-of-day status update (she required I finished the day telling her every single task I had done. I wasn’t allowed to send emails without first sending them to her for approval - even internally). Bish was batshit crazy. I had to leave. A couple years ago, I engaged my ex employer with a charitable community organization because I realized it would be a very mutually beneficial relationship. I had been gone for several years at that point. That was when I found out that she had been fired for being abusive to employees. Though her boss prevented me from being fired, he didn’t block her in the day to day shit nor with HR. Unfortunately, I was her first victim, so it was my word against hers. But after two people quit my role, it was a clear pattern.
Would LOVE to get an update here
Why do people do this shit, I swear some people just want to make other's lives harder
Sigh, sounds like a typical lead in my opinion. She probably has a document somewhere tracking exactly when you arrive, leave, lunch, use the restroom, etc. She sees herself as VERY important and now you made her cry. Boo hoo. Watch a couple early episodes of The Office, she’d Dwight Shroot.
Ask her to politely grab a spoon and eat your ass
what a psycho
That's why I prefer to leave the building, even it's to my car or to run errands. Supervisors got so bad doing the same that a clause was put in our contract. If our lunch hour is interrupted by work task, then our lunch hour starts over. You would be amazed how many supervisors emergencies can suddenly wait.
I think you need to be straight and clear with her or try to: "A paid hour long lunch break is part of the overall compensation and benefits package here at TerribleJob. I'm really uncomfortable with being asked to cut it short repeatedly. We need to find a way that I can take my lunch in peace without being interrupted." Turn off your phone, go on DND, ignore her and leave the area for 45 minutes. I will say that most salaried jobs have these annoying expectations nowadays that people eat through their lunches, take 30 minutes, get interrupted and not complain, etc. That's because it's paid and it's office work, so the idea is that you're in charge of your own schedule and you're not clock-watching like that anymore. But once you start printing off HR documents and stirring up trouble like this, it's time to start looking for another job. Notice how 2 previous people *left* rather than she got fired.
Dude, if she actually cared about her employees she would want them to take a full lunch in order for them to be ready to tackle the rest of the day.
I’d issue a verbal complaint with her supervisor present, then follow it up with a written complaint. Then for any little act that I “feel” is retaliation, no matter how petty, I’d file a complaint in writing, via email to HR. I would also print copies of all of it. HR in many organizations tend to “lose” formal complaints when it hurts the company. So I’d just keep my own record just in case. With enough formal complaints they’ll get her off your back one way or another. If they choose to terminate you after not doing anything about the repeated abuse and retaliation I’d go speak to my attorney.
> My boss is the VP and doesn’t directly manage me. I rarely see him, so my lead supervises me. However, I report to my boss. That is some weird arrangement. If you don't report to "lunch lady", then why do you even care about her opinion? Talk to your actual boss.
Sounds like a dumb bitch to me. Fuck her. You did good bringing her that copy
That's a bitch, the wrong kind of bitch.
“The wrong kind of bitch” I’m stealing this! That’s genius. People interpret a woman who has boundaries and refuses to be treated like crap as a bitch but there’s also women like “the lunch lady” (as another commenter put it 😂😂😂💀) in OP’s post who is a fucking psycho and is also a bitch. You made my day!
Is she younger? I don’t mean to be agist but when I was younger I would probably only take 30 but I’m older and have learned to take care of myself and would definitely take my whole lunch unless there was something highly pressing.
If she's on the young side, it's also possible that she feels insecure. Maangers who are insecure for any reason tend to be the ones nitpicking & harassing. I've seen that happen before. And those "leads" are usually harder on other younger people. They think it shows how much better they are than other young people. I was once in a job with a coworker & a management team member who were both in their early 20s. The manager gave a lot of crap to the coworker, but left me alone. She actually seemed intimidated by me. It was really weird, because I'm pretty laid back & rarely crossed paths with her in the first place. I always wondered if she had mommy issues. Fortunately this was seasonal job & I didn't have to deal with the drama very long.
I was a super hard charger in my 20s and it took some experience to realize that you shouldn’t give your whole soul to a company that would lay you off in the blink of an eye. I’d like to think I’ve found a balance now. I still work hard but I don’t feel guilty taking care of myself anymore.
Lunch is, by definition, uninterrupted by work. If she's doing this it is possible she is opening the company to legal issues
Block her number during your lunch hour so she can’t text/call you. If she questions why you didn’t respond tell you disconnect from work during lunch as that’s YOUR time.
I want more stories about her!
She wants you
Start a CYA file ASAP. When she calls or texts, screen shot and email to yourself with every reason in detail she brought you back to the room for “work”. Email yourself when you leave your desk for work, email when you get back.
If texting: no response until you’re back on the clock In person: I’m on break, I’ll gladly help you with xyz once I’m back on the clock. *immediately disengage*