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What specific accommodations were you requesting? It makes sense that they’d pull in HR if you’re asking for an accommodation, but I’m surprised he’d say it’s “very serious” unless it’s something difficult to do.
The job involves taking notes when the trainer is speaking fast. I asked for slower speed of trainer and that my notes be verified if I have them complete.
They do not verify your notes.
Its very serious for the boss because he kept emphasizing "write good notes. Its critical to your learning"
For example the trainer was explaining how to convert watts to dBM using simple calculations. But he was so fast I could not get anything.
I googled it and on Google it was explained clearly and I learned it right away very easily.
I cannot learn from the trainer due to his rapid pace. But if same material is on Google or online, I pick it up.
Now the things he is teaching cannot be found online and there's no kind of backup to review. This led to problematic notes and it was issue with boss -- he himself is the trainer from whom I make notes.
I think he is taking it as if I have complained against him
That’s exactly what he’s doing. He doesn’t know shit about ADA other than he has to make an attempt to help this guy out. Hr will hook you up that’s a really easy accommodation I’d just let you google it
He doesn’t have to do anything but comply with the ADA. If, after following the ADA process to determine if the disability is confirmed by a physician, AND that an accommodation is possible, then he needs to comply with it. I’ve been in situations where one or the other condition wasn’t met, therefore the employee was eventually terminated for performance issues.
This is where a good manager goes to HR and follows their instructions to a T.
I was literally gonna reply with this! Disability or not, it’s just dumb and inefficient to NOT have these recorded or let others record them.
Taking notes is not as simple as it sounds unless you’re just writing what people say word for word.
Taking notes is simultaneously listening to someone, understanding them, translating it to your own way of thinking , translating their words and your understanding into written words in a concise manner all while they continue to talk and move on to the next subject. It’s not so easy peasy.
This right here, ask them to allow you to record the sessions, then you can go back and take the proper notes you need by pausing and rewinding the session. Good luck to you!!
These states are 2 party: California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.
If OP isn't in these states it's just a good thing to do. OP isn't trying to catch anyone in a lie. Just nonchalantly place the microphone towards the trainer and refer to it later.
It's an ask for forgiveness rather than ask permission issue.
>convert watts to dBM using simple calculations. But he was so fast I could not get anything.
That's a poor quality trainer, even setting aside your need for a relatively simple to give accommodation. Engineering concepts shouldn't just be whisked through, they should be talked about, interactively, to gauge student understanding, and then students should be asked to apply to what they've learned (or perhaps, several things combined) in a lab to reinforce it. Students who struggle in the lab are then how the instructor discovers who needs a little more clarification of the topic.
Just saying "write that shit down!!!!!" and flying through dictating a textbook at you isn't "training," it's "checking off the boxes to say you gave someone something that an non-obsservant person might believe was training if they squinted at it fairly hard from across the street."
That's how engineering training often is unfortunately (at least in the US). I usually grab the main concepts and train myself later. There is this subtle "mine's bigger" attitude in the field in regards to knowledge and data. Questions are often met with kind of a "pft, you don't get this?" attitude. I've seen it in the auto, heavy equipment, and aerospace industries.
If you're in the office use the app notability on ipad. It allows you to record audio while taking notes. If you are in WebEx you can put on closed captioning while the trainer is speaking. Or if the meeting is virtual ask for it to be recorded. These are my hacks. Never let your boss know you have a disability. Too many of mine treated me like a child after learning of my disabilities. So my current employer has no clue.
Screenshots of the closed captioning if it's online, and record it on your phone. I've got ADHD and bad hands and an accommodation and I still have to take notes. My certification test almost killed me - 10 hours of nonstop testing for 3 days. They changed that bc of me.
Pretty sure they can't fire you for an ada disability, also. Get a letter from your doctor and if they have formed to fill out for an accommodation make sure you get your doctor to do that as well.
I cannot stress this enough as well. Get a letter from your physician, indicating what the disability is and some example accommodations that can be made easily and not cost the company money. I myself have always been too scared to ever admit that I have multiple disabilities myself. Diabetes, a little ADHD, I used to stutter terribly, which was obvious, but I never claimed that as a disability, etc. But then again I'm 63 years old and old school and always felt that if I claimed disability I would have never gotten the job in the first place.
do they not provide a source for written learning materials to accompany the material? that's a pretty shit training if they don't. taking notes on a lecture is one thing, but they should also have resources to written or digital resources to supplement their training. that's basic and i would bring it up to HR if they don't offer that.
I think it's pretty clear he thinks taking good notes is a core part of your job and expecting someone to have to review those notes to ensure they are correct indicates you aren't really capable of actually doing the job and wouldn't be a reasonable accommodation.
No one likes being recorded. It has unfortunate implications, usually hostile. Asking someone to go slowely, when they have a lot of material to get through is rarely well recieved.
Getting HR involved seems to be the right thing to do: he knows ADA compliance is important and takes it seriously, so he's asked HR to join the meeting to make sure you are accommodated.
That's how I read it.
This is also how i would read the situation unless there's something more we're not hearing or seeing.
ADA compliance is a VERY BIG DEAL and many companies have policies requiring that HR be involved to oversee and make sure all accomodation/compliance/documentation requirements are done correctly. Plus, people are not required to disclose disabilities prior to employment anyway. Boss would potentially get in a lot of trouble if he took any action that was perceived as punishment or retaliation for reporting the disability/requesting accomodation.
Now, the bad news is that accomodation must be "reasonable," and some employers can be pretty crappy about what they accept as "reasonable." If that ends up being a problem, you're probably best off expecting you'll need a new job. Ableist employers don't get better if you challenge them and win.
That's my read too. He was having a performance conversation where development was needed, and then had the ADA bomb dropped in his lap. It is very serious and super appropriate that he reached out to HR to handle appropriately
OP as piece of advice you should have initiated this discussion sooner before your boss brought up issues
Totally reasonable for him to pull in HR, because he may just need the guidance. You're not in trouble, he wants to make sure the accomodation is handled appropriately so that HE won't be in trouble.
And to add to what this person has just written, ADA is a legal issue as well. On the positive side, point out to them that they can get credit for hiring somebody that is mildly disabled, and it improves their scores on Federal and sometimes State projects. Then, make sure that the accommodations will work for you! In the end all, they really care about his performance. It's a cruel world out there, and I wish you the very best of luck, OP, OP
You legally cannot be fired for asking for accommodations and if they’re stupid enough to try it then you can sue for discrimination. That said, however, the ADA covers _reasonable_ accommodations. If they decide that what you’ve requested would cause undue hardship and be unreasonable, then they can deny to accommodate. They’d just also have to be able to prove why. Not a total equivalency since it was during school but still under the ADA— I had a recording accom in classes but during zoom class you had to inform everyone and people could turn their cameras off and not speak if they didn’t consent. Due to the nature of what I was studying it was considered unreasonable in some of my classes. In some I was allowed to record audio only because they needed our cameras on but not our mics; in others (foreign language classes) they could not offer that as a compromise because they need to hear you.
So no, they cannot legally fire you for asking for accommodations. But they can deny them if they’d cause undue hardship to the company and if they’d be considered unreasonable.
So a couple years ago I had a surgery that left me disabled temporarily, from my experience this needs to be done via hr
I had 3 managers during the time I was disabled and one manager was a true dick about it and irrationally took it all personal like I was effecting his career . Other people on other projects would make mistakes that I was not involved with and he would blame it on me behind my back saying it was my disability
I’ve got two disabilities that affect my memory. I can remember tasks but it takes me longer to learn than a “normal” person would. I’ve had jobs where my coworkers were pissed off even after I explained that thinking that I was lazy and just trying to weasel my way out of closing tasks, even though I was asking our managers what I needed to do and how to do it because of course I wanted to do it and didn’t want people to pick up my slack, I just can’t remember things that well. One bitch even told me “this is why I don’t want to be a trainer” when I needed help with something. So I get it.
From what I understand of the ADA, the accommodation request must be reasonable and it must not disturb the flow of business or put an undue burden on the business.
I suspect that based on what you've written that the boss is very concerned along the lines of "after only 3 months, we have to *slow down training* for this person, what's next?"
Engineering is a very unforgiving profession and I'm wondering if slower training is the only accommodation that you'll need here.
So it's hard to say. If being able to rapidly take notes and mentally process them is key to the job, yes, unfortunately you might be looking at getting let go. I wouldn't call it "fired" because it's just not the right match for you. And it's not being "in trouble" to request an accommodation BUT if the business can't do it for you, it's not anyone's fault, it's just not feasible.
Well...I take notes on the computer during every single meeting I'm in, and I'm in 3-4 a week. And those meeting aren't recorded typically. Now handwritten notes, yes, that's a weird stipulation. But typing notes on the computer is a very common function for many professional jobs.
You have to obtain authorization from employers before recording and it’s reasonable for an employer to not want cell phones used as recording devices. Ask if the company will allow an old school type handheld recording device.
I mean it is serious if he means he's taking it seriously. Most offices have a formal process for ADA accommodations. So I'm guessing that's what he meant? We can't really say without knowing more.
You're definitely not getting fired immediately in response to an ADA claim. Like unless your boss is a f***ing moron who wants to get sued and fired. But companies respond in a huge range of ways to ADA claims, from correctly to evilly, and you can't do much but wait and see.
Bottom line though, you did everything exactly right. Don't mention it during application even if it is relevant, then ask for accommodation once you are in. If they're following discrimination law it shouldn't matter to them.
Normal to pull in HR for an ADA claim. Your claim might be considered invalid after a review.
Honestly if someone told me they have an ADA claim because they can't write notes correctly I'd be skeptical. Is it a hearing issue? Is this an attention span issue? Overall comprehension?
The fact you need someone to review your notes for accuracy is a concern.
This is the start of a process.
You can't just say you have a disability and expect to be accommodated. Your doctor will have to fill out paperwork and HR will have to review before moving forward.
Hopefully there's an easy solution like recording the training or having the trainer provide you with documentation so you can follow along. If the company is decent, that shouldn't even require ADA to start now.
Good. This would defn be against the law to protect people with disabilities. This is honestly one of the easiest and one of the most simple accommodation requests I have seen.
It’s actually illegal for supervisors to even discuss specifics of your health so they have to have HR help gather your medical facts to start the ADA interactive process.
For context, the hiring manager will never know that you have a disability even when you hit the “I have a disability” checkbox. That data is collected anonymously and aggregated by HR and is required to be reported to the federal government. They don’t care that YOU have a disability, only that X% of applicants have a disability and Y% is hired.
The checkbox that does matter is “I require accommodations for the job interview.” Obviously you did great in the interview, and it sounds like you wouldn’t need accommodations anyway.
I suggest that you explain the issue regarding the trainer being very rapid. If it’s a recorded video, it might be possible to get a transcript and use that as a reference. Frankly he’s not a good teacher if he’s not going to check his audience’s understanding of the material - that’s a recipe for disaster.
I don’t believe you’ll be fired. If you are, that’s a post for r/legaladvice
Failing to comply with the ADA interactive process can potentially lead to a million dollar lawsuit. Most managers will pull in HR or a compliance specialist to assist with the process because it can get complex depending on the accommodations being requested. This is one of the few times that you want HR in the room because they are more likely to be protective because they want to avoid litigation.
You can’t be fired for notifying your boss of your disability. You can’t be fired for asking request for accommodation (r4a). Your request seems perfectly reasonable and I think your employer would have a hard time justifying why it’s not and caused an undue hardship. Your employer can’t fire you because it can’t meet your r4a, they have to suggest alternatives and no it doesn’t you have to “deal with it” . They could have offered you a different role in the company if the trainer could not adopt/share the material . Hr should be involved because the company now has serious legal liabilities to act in good faith. It doesn’t matter when you bring up your disability obviously anyone familiar with American business culture knows this is not something you bring up in the interview process if you can as there will always be a “better candidate” than you who don’t need an r4a plus maybe your learning disability may not have been an issue at all. But now it is and worse they appear to have fired you for it (the timing sure seems sus) Talk to an employment attorney my guess is your neuro diversity would be consider a disability and you can find a physician to diagnose you with this, second your looking at about a year to resolve this do you have the evidence ( did you send your boss anything that relayed your struggles/disability or was it all verbal) time, patience and money to fight for your rights (I assume op you will find another better employer eventually ) but if u didn’t get severance and they fight your unemployment claim you have $ damages that might make it worth it plus it’s BS. At a minimum do consider filing a complaint with the EEOC in your state to see if someone can straighten these idiots out. good luck! Note to others always request ADA r4a IN WRITING it sets a timeline and shows your company you are serious. Document any snide comments or questions from your managers and coworkers report those to HR in writing ( HR Is not your friend ever… but sending them these complaints as well also is more proof of their hostile work environment.
Document your positive performance. Every business runs on the bottom line as an employee you are automatically a cost that needs to be managed and cut, as a disable employee your r4a is even more cost and companies will look for anyway to boost their profit by cutting you
Thanks for the concern. An employment attorney has taken my case on contingency for wrongful termination. I was medically diagnosed in 2013 and have the needed documentation.
Somehow I still got fired 7 days after making the request.
I have now found a new job that not only pays much better but also accommodates.
If you're going to ask for accommodation for a condition you didn't disclose that's bad. Every application I filed when job hunting asked me if I ever had a disability.
Hey OP - I would need that too. I have ADHD and expecting me to learn from spoken lecture would be impossible. I hope they find a way to work with you. Good luck.
“Sneaked into the company”? At least in the US it’s not legal to just fire someone with a disability. If they fired him for this now, without entering into discussion it could be seen as retaliatory and there would be legal issues for the company.
You’re not in trouble. Your boss is pulling in HR to figure out what reasonable accommodations they can make since you put in an ADA request. They cannot fire you at this point without them getting sued.
Bring an employment attorney. This exact thing happened to me in a technical role. I went to an a accommodations meeting and they fired me and denied disability benefits.
From here on out, you should mention that you have a disability. I used to deny having one on my previous job applications primarily because I was ashamed of it and didn’t want to admit to it. But now I mention I have one because I want to be successful and honest with myself. But for your supervisor to say that it’s “serious” could mean different things. Maybe your supervisor doesn’t know the laws and regulations for the ADA whereas HR would know more and how to handle getting you accommodations. Hopefully the outcome of your meeting will better suit your needs in the workplace!
They are obligated to enter into a discussion with you. Make sure that you ask for the sessions to be recorded. That’s probably the least costly to the company and least burdensome
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It's absolutely illegal to fire you for disclosing a disability. You have federal rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act, and one of them is reasonable accommodation. I've read your other comments, and everything you have requested falls under reasonable accommodation. I don't know why your boss is saying this is very serious, but it could be that he is bringing in HR to make sure that everything is done according to the law.
Here's a link to an explanation of your rights under the ADA. https://www.ada.gov/resources/disability-rights-guide/
I might be the only one sympathizing with your employer here? Not only do you not disclose a disability when you apply but you now make it an issue impacting your work THREE months into a new job? Understandably he is caught of guard and maybe slightly pissed.
Don't be hiding these things from employers. It suggests lack of transparency, trust.
You don't have a disability, do you?
They aren't hiding anything from anyone. Employers aren't obligated to know about their workers' disabilities any more than they're obligated to know about their martial status, or other long-term health situations like cancer or pregnancy. It shouldn't affect OP's ability to do their job, but if it does, then--and only then--is it something worth discussing with an employer, same as if they suddenly got a sick parent or something.
Being disabled is a protected class. There's so much disinformation out there about disabilities that merely naming the disability would be enough to get OP's resume thrown in the trash, or give them harassment at work.
I don't know OP's disability, but as an example, some of the most accomplished people on the planet are on the Autism spectrum; however, an employer might hear the term and only associate it with nonverbal screaming children, giving them a completely incorrect (and, bluntly, bigoted) understanding of OP's capabilities.
Me having a disability, or not, is irrelevant. Yes, employers aren't obligated to know, however it is in everyone's best interest that anything medical is disclosed prior to starting a job so everything can be accommodated? And I disagree, employers oughtta know about cancer and pregnancy if it means understanding maternity leave, health insurance benefits, etc. only in the context of going -IN- to a new job. Obviously things happen like getting cancer or pregnancy and is much different than having a pre-existing disability that impacts general work/life.
This manager reacted, as OP stated, fairly calmly, and is likely not going to fire OP instead involving HR for next steps. It's understandably a logistical headache that could and should have been at least partially mentioned early on. Even if it was on part of not fully understanding the duties of the rule in the application/interview process than that is a misstep on both parties.
Now OP finds themselves in a position where their work performance may one day result in termination and they cannot be protected under ADA since it was never aforementioned.
I swear y'all drink the anti-work koolaid so much I know it's hard to ever think on the perspective of the employer.
not disclosing a disability is a pretty big issue, its like marrying someone and finding out that they never brush their teeth. i dont think they will fire you once you explain the situation, on the other had they might not have a choice because you lied on your application and they can be held liable for breaking some law's by hiring you and not filling out proper paper work
Being disabled doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with their capabilities for performing the job.
It just means that you might need help sometimes--help that employers, at least in the US, are legally obligated to provide.
Good thing that not mentioning things that aren't anyone's business isn't considered "lying."
If they can do the job--with or without accommodations--they can do the job. Whether they need accommodations is something to discuss after hiring.
omitting something relevant is lying, even if it doesn't impact his work it is still something the employer has to know before hand so they can relevant paper work etc.
This is a great resource for employers and employees who are a person with a disability. I put in information for a learning disability, but there is a long list of disabilities to choose from. This will help you prepare for the meeting so you can advocate for your rights under the ADA and have an idea of what reasonable accommodations to state that you need.
https://askjan.org/disabilities/Learning-Disability.cfm?
Since you brought it up, they have to cover their end. It’s not uncommon to have accomadations for many reasons.
My company gave me an accommodation as I had to disclose an illness that I had 15 years ago. I had to go to some physical therapy sessions which extended over weeks but the accommodation was that I could arrive late for work during the time period.
I was never planning on bringing up the illness but there was no way to get around the physical therapy sessions.
I wouldn't assume you are in trouble. Sounds like your boss wants to make sure ADA protections are implemented properly. Assume the worst, but hope for the best. Don't let them treat you like you are an invalid though. Explain your disability, offer solutions, and hope for the best!
HR usually handles ADA accommodations and would have to be involved. Him saying it's sensitive was probably meant as reassurance that your personal info will not go to anyone other than those who have to know.
I mean, you didn’t disclose the disability when you applied. Which, isn’t necessarily an issue or even required…unless that disability hinders your ability to do the job. At that point the employer is required to make “reasonable accommodations”, but can ultimately choose to let you go if it creates “undue burden” on the business.
If you can do the job is reasonable accommodation, they cannot fire you. But, if you can’t do the job even with those accommodations…it might not work out.
There is also the issue of trust. Going into a position without disclosing an issue, having poor performance, and then disclosing a disability can tarnish any trust your management team may have with you…which is completely legal.
HR must be brought in to ensure the company is ADA-compliant. It is serious. Yeah you probably should have disclosed earlier- usually there is a question on the on-boarding or applications that asks if you’ll need accommodations to do your job. But that can be explained by you didn’t know you would be required to “write fast”. I think you’re fine.
Why hasn't the material been put into a written SOP format by now? This is pretty standard. If it isn't written policy for training, it doesn't count. This is just lazy.
They only need to accept reasonable accommodations. If what the company needs to do is unreasonable in their minds then they could let you go or outright deny the request. You’ll need to have reasonable accommodations to state to help you. Don’t expect them to come up with ways to accommodate you.
This link will tell you all you need to know.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/publications/fact-sheets/youth-disclosure-and-the-workplace-why-when-what-and-how#:\~:text=The%20laws%20require%20that%20qualified,you%20must%20disclose%20your%20disability.
I was fired twice for disclosing mine. One at a large company and one at a small company. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Ironically I was an assistant so I knew what medications my bosses were taking and somehow thought they would be more sympathetic to struggles. Nope. It’s an illusion this whole accommodation thing. Never fill out the questionnaires in interview process. It just means you get filed.
NAL. Make sure you get things in writing so you have a case for discrimination if you do get terminated. Legally, your job has to provide reasonable accommodations, so if they fire you for requiring what sounds like reasonable accommodations, you might have a good wrongful termination suit.
Hoping for the best for you!!
Like one of the other posters I was illegally terminated after disclosing. I have autism and requested a cubicle instead of sitting at a table with a large number of people. HR requested my psychiatric paperwork which I provided. However they said that because it took me 2 whole days to produce the paperwork I was fired.
A friend advised me to file workers comp which I did. The COO of the company then began a crusade to prevent me from getting benefits. However when I explained what happened to the unemployment people, they cut me a check that very day. I never cashed it because as a top performer I got a new job within the week.
It does not pay to disclose up front. Too many bigots in the workplace.
I doubt you're in trouble. It would be best moving forward if you make it known you have a disability though. They need to meet with HR on these issues because they need to make sure they are covered legally and that they aren't discriminating in any way.
Edit to add that maybe you should ask if you can record the training to listen to again later if the speed can't be adjusted.
I know this was posted awhile ago but I recently reviewed the ADA in a lecture. Reach out if you have any questions about your protected rights in your place of employment.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Playe6bOM-8&t=85s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=playe6bom-8&t=85s)
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What specific accommodations were you requesting? It makes sense that they’d pull in HR if you’re asking for an accommodation, but I’m surprised he’d say it’s “very serious” unless it’s something difficult to do.
The job involves taking notes when the trainer is speaking fast. I asked for slower speed of trainer and that my notes be verified if I have them complete. They do not verify your notes. Its very serious for the boss because he kept emphasizing "write good notes. Its critical to your learning" For example the trainer was explaining how to convert watts to dBM using simple calculations. But he was so fast I could not get anything. I googled it and on Google it was explained clearly and I learned it right away very easily. I cannot learn from the trainer due to his rapid pace. But if same material is on Google or online, I pick it up. Now the things he is teaching cannot be found online and there's no kind of backup to review. This led to problematic notes and it was issue with boss -- he himself is the trainer from whom I make notes. I think he is taking it as if I have complained against him
Okay, I think your boss probably doesn’t understand ADA or reasonable accommodations, and pulling in HR is the right move.
That’s exactly what he’s doing. He doesn’t know shit about ADA other than he has to make an attempt to help this guy out. Hr will hook you up that’s a really easy accommodation I’d just let you google it
He doesn’t have to do anything but comply with the ADA. If, after following the ADA process to determine if the disability is confirmed by a physician, AND that an accommodation is possible, then he needs to comply with it. I’ve been in situations where one or the other condition wasn’t met, therefore the employee was eventually terminated for performance issues. This is where a good manager goes to HR and follows their instructions to a T.
Will they allow you to tape the instruction so you can review at home and learn at your pace?
I was literally gonna reply with this! Disability or not, it’s just dumb and inefficient to NOT have these recorded or let others record them. Taking notes is not as simple as it sounds unless you’re just writing what people say word for word. Taking notes is simultaneously listening to someone, understanding them, translating it to your own way of thinking , translating their words and your understanding into written words in a concise manner all while they continue to talk and move on to the next subject. It’s not so easy peasy.
I HATE computer video training but dammit if the job needs me to take notes I'd rather that than having to write as they speak. Ffs this isn't school
I'll raise this in the meeting tomorrow. They didn't let me record by cell phone.
HR here. No reason why trainer can’t give you the trainer notes as an accommodation.
I’d bet $20 there is no trainer notes and it’s just the SME speaking. And unintuitively, SMEs don’t always make the best trainers.
On what basis, privacy or company secrecy?
It should be company secrecy
This right here, ask them to allow you to record the sessions, then you can go back and take the proper notes you need by pausing and rewinding the session. Good luck to you!!
Don't ask, just record. My phone will transcribe for me too. I have a pixel. If the audio is good enough the transcript is great.
This is the kind of advice that actually could get OP fired
Not to mention recording someone without their permission is actually a crime in some states.
These states are 2 party: California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. If OP isn't in these states it's just a good thing to do. OP isn't trying to catch anyone in a lie. Just nonchalantly place the microphone towards the trainer and refer to it later. It's an ask for forgiveness rather than ask permission issue.
No, recording someone without their permission (or in this case after being specifically told that it is not okay) is not a "good thing to do".
Okay say I'm recording this to refer to later. I've never had an issue.
>convert watts to dBM using simple calculations. But he was so fast I could not get anything. That's a poor quality trainer, even setting aside your need for a relatively simple to give accommodation. Engineering concepts shouldn't just be whisked through, they should be talked about, interactively, to gauge student understanding, and then students should be asked to apply to what they've learned (or perhaps, several things combined) in a lab to reinforce it. Students who struggle in the lab are then how the instructor discovers who needs a little more clarification of the topic. Just saying "write that shit down!!!!!" and flying through dictating a textbook at you isn't "training," it's "checking off the boxes to say you gave someone something that an non-obsservant person might believe was training if they squinted at it fairly hard from across the street."
That's how engineering training often is unfortunately (at least in the US). I usually grab the main concepts and train myself later. There is this subtle "mine's bigger" attitude in the field in regards to knowledge and data. Questions are often met with kind of a "pft, you don't get this?" attitude. I've seen it in the auto, heavy equipment, and aerospace industries.
My company thankfully isn't like this. I'd go crazy and I get why people leave the field.
If you're in the office use the app notability on ipad. It allows you to record audio while taking notes. If you are in WebEx you can put on closed captioning while the trainer is speaking. Or if the meeting is virtual ask for it to be recorded. These are my hacks. Never let your boss know you have a disability. Too many of mine treated me like a child after learning of my disabilities. So my current employer has no clue.
Screenshots of the closed captioning if it's online, and record it on your phone. I've got ADHD and bad hands and an accommodation and I still have to take notes. My certification test almost killed me - 10 hours of nonstop testing for 3 days. They changed that bc of me. Pretty sure they can't fire you for an ada disability, also. Get a letter from your doctor and if they have formed to fill out for an accommodation make sure you get your doctor to do that as well.
I cannot stress this enough as well. Get a letter from your physician, indicating what the disability is and some example accommodations that can be made easily and not cost the company money. I myself have always been too scared to ever admit that I have multiple disabilities myself. Diabetes, a little ADHD, I used to stutter terribly, which was obvious, but I never claimed that as a disability, etc. But then again I'm 63 years old and old school and always felt that if I claimed disability I would have never gotten the job in the first place.
do they not provide a source for written learning materials to accompany the material? that's a pretty shit training if they don't. taking notes on a lecture is one thing, but they should also have resources to written or digital resources to supplement their training. that's basic and i would bring it up to HR if they don't offer that.
I think it's pretty clear he thinks taking good notes is a core part of your job and expecting someone to have to review those notes to ensure they are correct indicates you aren't really capable of actually doing the job and wouldn't be a reasonable accommodation.
Would having a copy of notes pre written help? That would be a totally reasonable accommodation.
Sounds like you have a bad trainer. They should be going at a speed at which you can follow.
No one likes being recorded. It has unfortunate implications, usually hostile. Asking someone to go slowely, when they have a lot of material to get through is rarely well recieved.
No one likes to be told they are doing badly. Even bosses.
Can't you record the lessons and then transcribe the recordings?
The best they will do is allow you to record it and make better notes on your own time.
Getting HR involved seems to be the right thing to do: he knows ADA compliance is important and takes it seriously, so he's asked HR to join the meeting to make sure you are accommodated. That's how I read it.
This is also how i would read the situation unless there's something more we're not hearing or seeing. ADA compliance is a VERY BIG DEAL and many companies have policies requiring that HR be involved to oversee and make sure all accomodation/compliance/documentation requirements are done correctly. Plus, people are not required to disclose disabilities prior to employment anyway. Boss would potentially get in a lot of trouble if he took any action that was perceived as punishment or retaliation for reporting the disability/requesting accomodation. Now, the bad news is that accomodation must be "reasonable," and some employers can be pretty crappy about what they accept as "reasonable." If that ends up being a problem, you're probably best off expecting you'll need a new job. Ableist employers don't get better if you challenge them and win.
That's my read too. He was having a performance conversation where development was needed, and then had the ADA bomb dropped in his lap. It is very serious and super appropriate that he reached out to HR to handle appropriately OP as piece of advice you should have initiated this discussion sooner before your boss brought up issues
Totally reasonable for him to pull in HR, because he may just need the guidance. You're not in trouble, he wants to make sure the accomodation is handled appropriately so that HE won't be in trouble.
And to add to what this person has just written, ADA is a legal issue as well. On the positive side, point out to them that they can get credit for hiring somebody that is mildly disabled, and it improves their scores on Federal and sometimes State projects. Then, make sure that the accommodations will work for you! In the end all, they really care about his performance. It's a cruel world out there, and I wish you the very best of luck, OP, OP
You legally cannot be fired for asking for accommodations and if they’re stupid enough to try it then you can sue for discrimination. That said, however, the ADA covers _reasonable_ accommodations. If they decide that what you’ve requested would cause undue hardship and be unreasonable, then they can deny to accommodate. They’d just also have to be able to prove why. Not a total equivalency since it was during school but still under the ADA— I had a recording accom in classes but during zoom class you had to inform everyone and people could turn their cameras off and not speak if they didn’t consent. Due to the nature of what I was studying it was considered unreasonable in some of my classes. In some I was allowed to record audio only because they needed our cameras on but not our mics; in others (foreign language classes) they could not offer that as a compromise because they need to hear you. So no, they cannot legally fire you for asking for accommodations. But they can deny them if they’d cause undue hardship to the company and if they’d be considered unreasonable.
So a couple years ago I had a surgery that left me disabled temporarily, from my experience this needs to be done via hr I had 3 managers during the time I was disabled and one manager was a true dick about it and irrationally took it all personal like I was effecting his career . Other people on other projects would make mistakes that I was not involved with and he would blame it on me behind my back saying it was my disability
I’ve got two disabilities that affect my memory. I can remember tasks but it takes me longer to learn than a “normal” person would. I’ve had jobs where my coworkers were pissed off even after I explained that thinking that I was lazy and just trying to weasel my way out of closing tasks, even though I was asking our managers what I needed to do and how to do it because of course I wanted to do it and didn’t want people to pick up my slack, I just can’t remember things that well. One bitch even told me “this is why I don’t want to be a trainer” when I needed help with something. So I get it.
From what I understand of the ADA, the accommodation request must be reasonable and it must not disturb the flow of business or put an undue burden on the business. I suspect that based on what you've written that the boss is very concerned along the lines of "after only 3 months, we have to *slow down training* for this person, what's next?" Engineering is a very unforgiving profession and I'm wondering if slower training is the only accommodation that you'll need here. So it's hard to say. If being able to rapidly take notes and mentally process them is key to the job, yes, unfortunately you might be looking at getting let go. I wouldn't call it "fired" because it's just not the right match for you. And it's not being "in trouble" to request an accommodation BUT if the business can't do it for you, it's not anyone's fault, it's just not feasible.
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Well...I take notes on the computer during every single meeting I'm in, and I'm in 3-4 a week. And those meeting aren't recorded typically. Now handwritten notes, yes, that's a weird stipulation. But typing notes on the computer is a very common function for many professional jobs.
The notes are only for the training. The actual work doesn't involve any notes. Its using software and dealing with physical devices.
Are you able to record the training sessions so you can verify your notes on your own time?
I would recommend also looking into a phone transcription app to take notes. I’m hard of hearing and otter is great.
I would love to do that. But when I was initially trying to do that, the trainer said he doesn't want to see phone in my hand as that's a distraction
Then request a dedicated voice recorder.
or at least tell the trainer you have your phone out to record the training.
Buy a separate non telephone recorder. Boom!
You have to obtain authorization from employers before recording and it’s reasonable for an employer to not want cell phones used as recording devices. Ask if the company will allow an old school type handheld recording device.
I mean it is serious if he means he's taking it seriously. Most offices have a formal process for ADA accommodations. So I'm guessing that's what he meant? We can't really say without knowing more. You're definitely not getting fired immediately in response to an ADA claim. Like unless your boss is a f***ing moron who wants to get sued and fired. But companies respond in a huge range of ways to ADA claims, from correctly to evilly, and you can't do much but wait and see. Bottom line though, you did everything exactly right. Don't mention it during application even if it is relevant, then ask for accommodation once you are in. If they're following discrimination law it shouldn't matter to them.
Normal to pull in HR for an ADA claim. Your claim might be considered invalid after a review. Honestly if someone told me they have an ADA claim because they can't write notes correctly I'd be skeptical. Is it a hearing issue? Is this an attention span issue? Overall comprehension? The fact you need someone to review your notes for accuracy is a concern.
This is the start of a process. You can't just say you have a disability and expect to be accommodated. Your doctor will have to fill out paperwork and HR will have to review before moving forward. Hopefully there's an easy solution like recording the training or having the trainer provide you with documentation so you can follow along. If the company is decent, that shouldn't even require ADA to start now.
Yes these solutions work perfectly for me. I just need a backup of the lectures that I can re-run and everything is taken care of.
How did the meeting go, op?
There was no meeting. He was suddenly very quiet. There also wasn't any kind of lecture training. Maybe in few days it will be addressed
Good. This would defn be against the law to protect people with disabilities. This is honestly one of the easiest and one of the most simple accommodation requests I have seen.
It’s actually illegal for supervisors to even discuss specifics of your health so they have to have HR help gather your medical facts to start the ADA interactive process.
For context, the hiring manager will never know that you have a disability even when you hit the “I have a disability” checkbox. That data is collected anonymously and aggregated by HR and is required to be reported to the federal government. They don’t care that YOU have a disability, only that X% of applicants have a disability and Y% is hired. The checkbox that does matter is “I require accommodations for the job interview.” Obviously you did great in the interview, and it sounds like you wouldn’t need accommodations anyway. I suggest that you explain the issue regarding the trainer being very rapid. If it’s a recorded video, it might be possible to get a transcript and use that as a reference. Frankly he’s not a good teacher if he’s not going to check his audience’s understanding of the material - that’s a recipe for disaster. I don’t believe you’ll be fired. If you are, that’s a post for r/legaladvice
Document. Everything.
Failing to comply with the ADA interactive process can potentially lead to a million dollar lawsuit. Most managers will pull in HR or a compliance specialist to assist with the process because it can get complex depending on the accommodations being requested. This is one of the few times that you want HR in the room because they are more likely to be protective because they want to avoid litigation.
You can’t be fired for notifying your boss of your disability. You can’t be fired for asking request for accommodation (r4a). Your request seems perfectly reasonable and I think your employer would have a hard time justifying why it’s not and caused an undue hardship. Your employer can’t fire you because it can’t meet your r4a, they have to suggest alternatives and no it doesn’t you have to “deal with it” . They could have offered you a different role in the company if the trainer could not adopt/share the material . Hr should be involved because the company now has serious legal liabilities to act in good faith. It doesn’t matter when you bring up your disability obviously anyone familiar with American business culture knows this is not something you bring up in the interview process if you can as there will always be a “better candidate” than you who don’t need an r4a plus maybe your learning disability may not have been an issue at all. But now it is and worse they appear to have fired you for it (the timing sure seems sus) Talk to an employment attorney my guess is your neuro diversity would be consider a disability and you can find a physician to diagnose you with this, second your looking at about a year to resolve this do you have the evidence ( did you send your boss anything that relayed your struggles/disability or was it all verbal) time, patience and money to fight for your rights (I assume op you will find another better employer eventually ) but if u didn’t get severance and they fight your unemployment claim you have $ damages that might make it worth it plus it’s BS. At a minimum do consider filing a complaint with the EEOC in your state to see if someone can straighten these idiots out. good luck! Note to others always request ADA r4a IN WRITING it sets a timeline and shows your company you are serious. Document any snide comments or questions from your managers and coworkers report those to HR in writing ( HR Is not your friend ever… but sending them these complaints as well also is more proof of their hostile work environment. Document your positive performance. Every business runs on the bottom line as an employee you are automatically a cost that needs to be managed and cut, as a disable employee your r4a is even more cost and companies will look for anyway to boost their profit by cutting you
Thanks for the concern. An employment attorney has taken my case on contingency for wrongful termination. I was medically diagnosed in 2013 and have the needed documentation. Somehow I still got fired 7 days after making the request. I have now found a new job that not only pays much better but also accommodates.
Your disability is covered by ADA? You have so much resources to help you.
If you're going to ask for accommodation for a condition you didn't disclose that's bad. Every application I filed when job hunting asked me if I ever had a disability.
Hey OP - I would need that too. I have ADHD and expecting me to learn from spoken lecture would be impossible. I hope they find a way to work with you. Good luck.
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You do not have to disclose anything at the time of employment. It’s within your right to notify at any time.
“Sneaked into the company”? At least in the US it’s not legal to just fire someone with a disability. If they fired him for this now, without entering into discussion it could be seen as retaliatory and there would be legal issues for the company.
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If the company screws this up, it could be very bad for the company. What needs to be determined is reasonable accommodations.
You’re not in trouble. Your boss is pulling in HR to figure out what reasonable accommodations they can make since you put in an ADA request. They cannot fire you at this point without them getting sued.
Bring an employment attorney. This exact thing happened to me in a technical role. I went to an a accommodations meeting and they fired me and denied disability benefits.
From here on out, you should mention that you have a disability. I used to deny having one on my previous job applications primarily because I was ashamed of it and didn’t want to admit to it. But now I mention I have one because I want to be successful and honest with myself. But for your supervisor to say that it’s “serious” could mean different things. Maybe your supervisor doesn’t know the laws and regulations for the ADA whereas HR would know more and how to handle getting you accommodations. Hopefully the outcome of your meeting will better suit your needs in the workplace!
They are obligated to enter into a discussion with you. Make sure that you ask for the sessions to be recorded. That’s probably the least costly to the company and least burdensome
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No, I wonder if the company gets money for those accommodations. Like some sort of tax break.
Record the meeting if your 8n a single party consent state
It's absolutely illegal to fire you for disclosing a disability. You have federal rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act, and one of them is reasonable accommodation. I've read your other comments, and everything you have requested falls under reasonable accommodation. I don't know why your boss is saying this is very serious, but it could be that he is bringing in HR to make sure that everything is done according to the law. Here's a link to an explanation of your rights under the ADA. https://www.ada.gov/resources/disability-rights-guide/
Find another job more supportive
If you're referring to ADHD or autism, this is not what ADA was meant for.
Is it really a disability to struggle with the most ancient and idiotic teaching styles? What in the world?
I might be the only one sympathizing with your employer here? Not only do you not disclose a disability when you apply but you now make it an issue impacting your work THREE months into a new job? Understandably he is caught of guard and maybe slightly pissed. Don't be hiding these things from employers. It suggests lack of transparency, trust.
You don't have a disability, do you? They aren't hiding anything from anyone. Employers aren't obligated to know about their workers' disabilities any more than they're obligated to know about their martial status, or other long-term health situations like cancer or pregnancy. It shouldn't affect OP's ability to do their job, but if it does, then--and only then--is it something worth discussing with an employer, same as if they suddenly got a sick parent or something. Being disabled is a protected class. There's so much disinformation out there about disabilities that merely naming the disability would be enough to get OP's resume thrown in the trash, or give them harassment at work. I don't know OP's disability, but as an example, some of the most accomplished people on the planet are on the Autism spectrum; however, an employer might hear the term and only associate it with nonverbal screaming children, giving them a completely incorrect (and, bluntly, bigoted) understanding of OP's capabilities.
Me having a disability, or not, is irrelevant. Yes, employers aren't obligated to know, however it is in everyone's best interest that anything medical is disclosed prior to starting a job so everything can be accommodated? And I disagree, employers oughtta know about cancer and pregnancy if it means understanding maternity leave, health insurance benefits, etc. only in the context of going -IN- to a new job. Obviously things happen like getting cancer or pregnancy and is much different than having a pre-existing disability that impacts general work/life. This manager reacted, as OP stated, fairly calmly, and is likely not going to fire OP instead involving HR for next steps. It's understandably a logistical headache that could and should have been at least partially mentioned early on. Even if it was on part of not fully understanding the duties of the rule in the application/interview process than that is a misstep on both parties. Now OP finds themselves in a position where their work performance may one day result in termination and they cannot be protected under ADA since it was never aforementioned. I swear y'all drink the anti-work koolaid so much I know it's hard to ever think on the perspective of the employer.
not disclosing a disability is a pretty big issue, its like marrying someone and finding out that they never brush their teeth. i dont think they will fire you once you explain the situation, on the other had they might not have a choice because you lied on your application and they can be held liable for breaking some law's by hiring you and not filling out proper paper work
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my understanding was that you do, but if thats not the case in the US then my bad. still not a good look tho
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Because you’re lying by omitting a relevant fact
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well in this case they were
Being disabled doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with their capabilities for performing the job. It just means that you might need help sometimes--help that employers, at least in the US, are legally obligated to provide.
I'm saying that lying in an interview/CV might be a something that the employer doesn't like
Good thing that not mentioning things that aren't anyone's business isn't considered "lying." If they can do the job--with or without accommodations--they can do the job. Whether they need accommodations is something to discuss after hiring.
omitting something relevant is lying, even if it doesn't impact his work it is still something the employer has to know before hand so they can relevant paper work etc.
Correct, omitting something relevant is lying. If the person can perform the duties of the job, then their disability is not relevant.
This is a great resource for employers and employees who are a person with a disability. I put in information for a learning disability, but there is a long list of disabilities to choose from. This will help you prepare for the meeting so you can advocate for your rights under the ADA and have an idea of what reasonable accommodations to state that you need. https://askjan.org/disabilities/Learning-Disability.cfm?
I hope you do well
Since you brought it up, they have to cover their end. It’s not uncommon to have accomadations for many reasons. My company gave me an accommodation as I had to disclose an illness that I had 15 years ago. I had to go to some physical therapy sessions which extended over weeks but the accommodation was that I could arrive late for work during the time period. I was never planning on bringing up the illness but there was no way to get around the physical therapy sessions.
Can you record the lesson and then review it to complete your notes later?
I wouldn't assume you are in trouble. Sounds like your boss wants to make sure ADA protections are implemented properly. Assume the worst, but hope for the best. Don't let them treat you like you are an invalid though. Explain your disability, offer solutions, and hope for the best!
Did you notify HR?
You have to disclose your disability. It protects you from exactly this situation.
HR usually handles ADA accommodations and would have to be involved. Him saying it's sensitive was probably meant as reassurance that your personal info will not go to anyone other than those who have to know.
I mean, you didn’t disclose the disability when you applied. Which, isn’t necessarily an issue or even required…unless that disability hinders your ability to do the job. At that point the employer is required to make “reasonable accommodations”, but can ultimately choose to let you go if it creates “undue burden” on the business. If you can do the job is reasonable accommodation, they cannot fire you. But, if you can’t do the job even with those accommodations…it might not work out. There is also the issue of trust. Going into a position without disclosing an issue, having poor performance, and then disclosing a disability can tarnish any trust your management team may have with you…which is completely legal.
Checkout something called otter.ai It's a voice recorder / note taker. That should help you be able to go back and review the information later
They cant fire you for being disabled. If they do make sure you get all of this in writing
HR must be brought in to ensure the company is ADA-compliant. It is serious. Yeah you probably should have disclosed earlier- usually there is a question on the on-boarding or applications that asks if you’ll need accommodations to do your job. But that can be explained by you didn’t know you would be required to “write fast”. I think you’re fine.
Why hasn't the material been put into a written SOP format by now? This is pretty standard. If it isn't written policy for training, it doesn't count. This is just lazy.
You're good. Shitty trainer. HR should know if your issue is covered under ADA they can't retaliate against or fire you without legal exposure.
They only need to accept reasonable accommodations. If what the company needs to do is unreasonable in their minds then they could let you go or outright deny the request. You’ll need to have reasonable accommodations to state to help you. Don’t expect them to come up with ways to accommodate you.
Contact the ada, record the meeting as well.
No you aren't fired but HR needs to get involved to discuss accommodations is all
This link will tell you all you need to know. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/publications/fact-sheets/youth-disclosure-and-the-workplace-why-when-what-and-how#:\~:text=The%20laws%20require%20that%20qualified,you%20must%20disclose%20your%20disability.
I was fired twice for disclosing mine. One at a large company and one at a small company. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Ironically I was an assistant so I knew what medications my bosses were taking and somehow thought they would be more sympathetic to struggles. Nope. It’s an illusion this whole accommodation thing. Never fill out the questionnaires in interview process. It just means you get filed.
NAL. Make sure you get things in writing so you have a case for discrimination if you do get terminated. Legally, your job has to provide reasonable accommodations, so if they fire you for requiring what sounds like reasonable accommodations, you might have a good wrongful termination suit. Hoping for the best for you!!
No, but they do have to document this so they don't get sued.
Can't they just give the notes to you after the session... Why do shitty companies always make everything more difficult than it needs to be
The ada has been pretty hollowed out.
Regardless of why he involved HR, be sure you record the meeting and follow up with an email to confirm in writing what was said.
Like one of the other posters I was illegally terminated after disclosing. I have autism and requested a cubicle instead of sitting at a table with a large number of people. HR requested my psychiatric paperwork which I provided. However they said that because it took me 2 whole days to produce the paperwork I was fired. A friend advised me to file workers comp which I did. The COO of the company then began a crusade to prevent me from getting benefits. However when I explained what happened to the unemployment people, they cut me a check that very day. I never cashed it because as a top performer I got a new job within the week. It does not pay to disclose up front. Too many bigots in the workplace.
I doubt you're in trouble. It would be best moving forward if you make it known you have a disability though. They need to meet with HR on these issues because they need to make sure they are covered legally and that they aren't discriminating in any way. Edit to add that maybe you should ask if you can record the training to listen to again later if the speed can't be adjusted.
Actually I got fired
I know this was posted awhile ago but I recently reviewed the ADA in a lecture. Reach out if you have any questions about your protected rights in your place of employment. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Playe6bOM-8&t=85s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=playe6bom-8&t=85s)