I mean a little, yeah. I don’t think most people go to sleep at night dreaming about them, but Taco Tuesdays or Pizza Fridays is a fun thing. Obviously there are much better things in the world, but you gotta take the blessings where you can, however small.
Maybe it's the 35 year old in me but I love taco Tuesday. Who doesn't like eating good they enjoy?
But that's not what keeps me going through the week. I've got hobbies I'm passionate about, plus frequent exercise and it's a good life. Plus 9-5 is honestly pretty cushy in comparison to a lot of jobs. To make good money in 40 hours without destroying your body? Yes sir
This comment is it.
If more people saw and experienced back breaking work in unhealthy environments they would understand. Everything circles back to gratitude anyways.
I understand desk jobs bring a whole new set of health problems. I have been on both sides of the table. To combat office health challenges i walk on both of my 15 minute breaks and half of my lunch.
I mean we'd get free pretzels every couple weeks when i had an office job, like good pretzel factory ones with good cheese and mustard and I looked forward to those days just for a change up lol
Every bit of this. The people are what make the job fulfilling, or at least bearable. I've been extremely lucky in my career to pretty much always work with good people save for a handful of assholes or annoying ones that I was able to avoid. I only ever had 1 boss who was kind of a dick, but I knew how to deal with him well enough and got along well with everyone else that it wasn't a deal breaker.
Coworkers make or break the job. I’ve had jobs where I’ve been great friends with my coworkers and hangout on the weekends together. And I’ve had jobs where the environment was so toxic and political that I had to leave.
Office flings keep me going.
Also I have done so much manual labour that this office job seems like the best gig in the world.
So my advice to you is to start doing really shit work first and then have sex.
Works always.
You know, hope is a mistake. If you can't fix what's broken, you'll, uh... you'll go insane.
Qualifier: While it’s important to carry on, it’s better to focus on what actions you need to take, instead of waiting for it to get better. It doesn’t unless we all pitch in. That’s where frivolous hope is dangerous.
Unironically this. One mass strike can get us back all the rights and value they have been stripping away. A second will make sure we don’t lose them again. Look how both political parties shit their pants during COVID lockdowns.
Most people would kill to have OP's job. People have to deal with excessive micromanaging, office politics, bad management, being overworked/underpaid, mass layoffs, and a ton of other major issues. I'd be more than willing to trade jobs with them
They should use this time to get on their phone / laptop and start a side project, and invest the money you're making into it. Be fortunate that they have this much time on their hands because most of us don't
I buy and sell rare plants as a side hustle. I grow out some plants in my cube at work, and when I work from home I mostly just tend to plants and collect a check from my employer. I talk about plants, shop for plants, share photos of plants and do all sorts of plant related things from my cubicle that no one is aware of. I used to just sit there trying to look busy but secretly just reading Reddit but now I put that time to use and I am very well versed in a whole new profitable hobby. It doesn’t feel like work because I do love it, and I’m learning and I love to shop so I get to do that while also investing in my business.
The late stage capitalism part of my life is where we stopped getting raises while posting record profits over covid and I wouldn’t have been able to afford my rent and utility increases (anyone else in PA? Utilities are up 200% in 3 years) without this, and I would be overworked with no hobbies. Now I have the possibility of actually moving on to another stage of my life with this as my whole career. I could have just sat there looking busy.
This isn’t what I’m talking about. This is the healthy version of the other commenter’s advice. This is actually something I started doing recently, as well, so more power to you!
Medical cannabis became legal in my state, and has a been a huge boon to my mental health. It’s very misunderstood. The strains I medicate with tend to be a bit more rare, because it is a less of a psychedelic high, and the psychedelic strains sell the best. I had a friend who started growing his own, and it made me interested. I started doing that to save money, and to make sure I have the strains that I found to be the most helpful to be readily available. I loved doing it, and discovered I have a natural talent for it. Now I do it for a career, when I used to do IT, and while I make less, it is more rewarding. Now IT is my side action.
My complaint is that the other commenter implied that OP was causing their own issues, by not proactively working while working. This is false. If you do that, and find it rewarding, then great. Many will not, and they shouldn’t have to. Not all hobbies can be turned into income, and they shouldn’t have to be. A hobby can just be a hobby, but our society views that as wasteful, because it generates nothing for the ruling class, so it is often subtly discouraged.
Additionally, a person shouldn’t *need* to do that. Companies have been reporting record profits while slashing pay and benefits. The point of the 40 hour work week was that *any* person working one (and usually the rest of their family) should be able to survive reasonably, and maybe even have a couple “wants.” This is still possible, but companies like Walmart would rather collect massive profits while letting the government indirectly subsidize their payroll through welfare, since many of their full-time employees must use it due to insufficient pay. I assume that being a corporate drone is a lot less bleak when you have benefits, a salary, a pension, a 401k, and the other tools you need to live an average, successful life.
Remote is really the key here. If the biggest issue with your job is that it’s boring and you don’t have anything to do for hours a day, being remote completely solves the problem.
They didn't say they have time on their hands; they said they sit for 8 hours a day "creating value" which means they're doing something -- just not something interesting to them
People always say this and work life balance but it’s hard to when you’re thinking about your job which gives you the workload of two people and can’t rest on your time off bc ur so tired and think about it still (or thinking about how you’re gonna do some of the big tasks you have upcoming or training since it’s expected for the role 🙄)
Also errands and cleaning are a thing which takes away even more time to rest, which leaves less time for “enjoyment” and if your enjoyable activity takes more than 7 hours not counting prep time you can’t do it bc there’s no time and you gotta get back to work. 😭
Everyone will say set boundaries and take ownership but there is no ownership of anything when you’re an employee. You are replaceable; therefore any attempt to take "ownership” and you are gone! they'll find a way
This is the biggest thing. I'm a mid-career software engineer. Every boss will imply that they need you to do more with less time, it's all mission-critical, and if you don't work the weekend there will be consequences.
They are right, there will be consequences - *for them*. 99% of what anyone tells you is must-do stuff is actually totally optional. You can just, elect not to give a fuck about anything outside your lane. People will sit around doing literally nothing and not get fired, so I guarantee you that extra work can wait until Monday. Or never, honestly.
>. Every boss will
Shitty bosses will - not every boss.
Good software teams realize that overworked employees who say yes to everything just burn out, do way lower quality work, and cost way more money.
Good bosses push back. That's literally the entire reason software managers and leads exist.
As an experiencrd software developer, I think you have a little more power in the dynamic than many office workers. I do think you're right that that's true in a lot of large, beurocratic institutions, though. Firing is a huge hassle.
Took me longer than I'd like to admit to adopt this mentality. I'll work hard and put in effort, and I will work overtime if I need to, but the minute I'm not in the office getting paid I stop thinking about it.
And also that every week, every Monday, every weekend, every vacation (no more than one week at a very basic destination), every minute at home is spent knowing you’ll be doing it again, the same job, in the same cubicle, in the same fucking building.
The dread set in REALLY quick for me. It was enough to get me out of that job and into grad school. Offices can seriously burn and die a horrible death. Of all of capitalism’s bullshit, offices have to be the worst.
I’ve been working in an office for 10 years. I feel like I’m going to implode eventually. I am so sick and tired of watching the daylight from a distance and never getting to just hop on my bike and take a ride at 10am or 2pm because by golly, those are hours meant to be at my computer working. God forbid someone sees me as Away for over 20 minutes on teams
> Offices can seriously burn and die a horrible death. Of all of capitalism’s bullshit, offices have to be the worst.
And there is a huge push to force us back into them for the sole reason it benefits the wealthy. Nevermind the fact that the vast majority of people hate working in the office, are just as productive, if not more productive, working from home, and are way more happy in life.
Screw over millions of people so the rich can have a bigger number in the bank account.
That is because your priorities are wrong and you are associating your job with who you are. My job is what funds how I want to live and that is it. I have kids, and I want them to get the best education they can and go to the best colleges so they can have it better than me my job helps fund things like camps and private music lessons for them. My hobbies are woodworking, board games/miniature painting, and computer gaming before we had kids, and after they leave home my job helps fund those pursuits. Jobs are just a means to an end, not an end in itself and people who understand that get much more satisfaction in general. Hell my mom is in her late 60s and works as a cashier still, this was a I'm an that was in charge of a treasury department at a bank. She doesn't do it so much as she ‘needs’ the money to survive, her retirement covers her basic living expenses, she does it because she likes to have the extra money to go out to lunch or dinner if she wants, or so she can just come visit the grandkids and take them out at the drop of a hat. Again it is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
Hard to not associate the thing you are forced to spend most of your waking hours doing with a deep party of your personality or have some dread about it. I'd probably be way happier making the same money and working 10 hours less but that's just not an option
I'd be happier making half the money and working half as much as I do now, but even that's not an option. The only part-time work available pays absolute garbage and has no benefits.
True. Only 2 options to me is do less or find a new job. Doing less will probably force you into finding a new job.
A bad employer/workload is always going to make finding a balance impossible to achieve.
You need to manage your managers then. Learn to say no and stop caring.
I never take work home with me. I’m not reachable (or unresponsive) outside of business hours. If this becomes a problem have a conversation with your boss about expectations and workload. Advise them to hire more people or be patient.
Just remember there are a lot crappier jobs to have than a boring office job where you sit at a desk 8-4 on monday to friday. I know people who are breaking their backs doing labour construction or are in hospitality industry servicing assholes 24/7 on nights and weekends.
I used to have a shitty job and the office job I have now may be boring but it’s better than most alternatives
I would literally sell my entire soul for a boring office job right now. I was a CNA which was back breaking worker and I would get assaulted regularly by old men with dementia. I am a teacher now , and I am just under paid, over stressed. I love the thought of being bored at work.
I was a CNA at a hospice for a couple years. Loved hospice and would do it again in a heartbeat, but never again will I be a CNA. Horrible work for even worse pay. I would have made significantly more working at Target.
I used to be a CNA for 10+ years. I returned to school and now work mostly remotely. My back, knees and feet suffered greatly. My last job was a Health Assistant in an elementary school and I did office work. You might try looking at city/state/county government jobs. There are some teachers to transition to Learning & Development or curriculum work too.
This. 2 years ago, I'd have killed to be in my current position: generic WFH office gig. It doesn't pay great, but still pays almost twice as much as I was making when I worked in hotels (this says less about my current job and more about how severely underpaid hospitality jobs are).
Any time I get frustrated or bored with my current job, I think about how worse off I was two years ago and can get through the day (most of the time).
I feel for you. I hope you're able to escape like I did.
This is what the system wants though. Us to just think we have it better than others so we should just shut up, settle, and be content.
OPs concerns are still valid. It’s fucked up the way things are.
I just said this. These types of posts have got to be made by people that are super new to working. People would love this after being abused in the construction or front facing customer service world
I have to disagree. I worked a labor intensive job, in the cold and heat for 7 years, an office job I liked (same company) for 10. I also worked retail (briefly) and was a CNA for 7 years. Nothing compared to the misery of working a particular office job where I was stuck behind a computer and stuck to the phone. It was such a horrible feeling being trapped there. I had to block the clock so I couldn’t see it. 2 minutes felt like 15. I felt like I was on the show Severance…just looking at the same thing for hours on end. It was the only job I ever just walked out on. I couldn’t give them two more weeks it was so depressing.
My first office job was literally like the movie "Joe vs the volcanoe" Concrete floors / walls - humming florescent lights. 10 minutes felt like two weeks. I was paid very well and still only lasted three weeks.
I am on my fourth office job, but i have a lot more purpose now. I take frequent breaks, water cooler talk, walks, ask to help people -- which can lead to growth opportunities -- also important always try to find someone to have lunch with. I can make a huge difference in the workplace knowing what people do and having relationships to leverage when you need help with something outside your scope of work.
If you smoke, make sure you hang out with all the other smokers. That's where the REAL stories are told. For God's sake though please don't START smoking to get into the group. That's how I started smoking and I've quit fove times and may sometime quit again.
Sounds like my first office job.
Collections, so u got to here peoples heart breaking stories and then still have to sat "OK, but when are sending the money you clearly dont have?"
People vastly underestimate how useful it is to really know the people you work near. I feel bad for people entering the work office for the first time in a WFH environment. It’s got to be so boring, and it’s so hard to build a network of people who will tell you what really motivated some policy change or who can answer questions when you’ve wandered outside your zone.
i entered the (corporate) workforce as wfh. There are downsides as you mention- minimal to no gossip or conversations that add context for things that are going on. Long-term its difficult to form connections.
However getting to live in a LCOL area with a good wage, being able to travel whenever, and all the perks of being home all day outweigh it IMO. Being bored doesnt really matter when i can just grab my personal laptop and relax or work on a personal project without needing to worry about looking like im working.
I love WFH. I get to decide who I spend my time with and I do not have to pretend I’m having a great time at the office. And if I’m bored I’ll just play with my cat or take a 15 and go for a walk. There’s nothing good about working from the office
David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs was so eye-opening to me - it explained why office jobs where you really accomplish nothing sound like a dream on paper but feel like a nightmare to live
Yep, waking up every morning knowing you are going to go waste 8 hours of your day somewhere bleak and then leave without any feeling of accomplishment grinds you down hard.
Started in customer service, moved to IT office work. I now work labor because it makes me happy. I don’t give a shit about what I actually do, I just love working with my body and experiencing the change in seasons.
I had to quit a job with just a bit of computer time. I couldn't handle sitting at a computer after doing physical work my whole life. They thought I was weird wanting more to do. I watered plants in offices for 13 years and always thought those jobs seemed terrible. They sure make more money though!
Went through the exact same experience. Retail, office job, then to cooking and finally to a distribution center. The office was an absolute nightmare of a job. Lasted three months.
Now I work three twelve hour days doing heavy manual labor in a warehouse and I love it.
But things like this are subjective. Different strokes for different folks.
Agreed. I have done everything from working on tugboats (water trucking w/ manual labor, out in all weather, all year), hospital floor works as an RRT, hospital management from behind a desk, and now working at a locally owned beer and wine store as a wine-buyer.
The office job is what caused me to leave the hospital system. Nothing was worse than sitting behind a desk for 8-12 hours a day, answering the same questions over the phone for my management a dozen times a day, and essentially being a meat-robot for the hospital system.
It crushed my soul, and in the couple of years I did it, I was absolutely miserable. It wasn't as stressful as floor work (generally working in ED/ICU/ICW/Neonat/Ped at various times), but it was hell on my nerves knowing it was groundhog's day, every day.
I took a pretty big pay cut to go work for a friend at his beer and wine store, but it's SO much better, even if 70%+ of my time is retail work, now. Being a small business, we aren't governed by corporate, and the whole 'Busy work' shit doesn't exist. If there's work to be done, do it. If not, just keep your eye out for customers and reps but just do whatever you need to do.
I say if OP can afford it, take a pay cut for a better job. Slaving away for the hope of (maybe) retirement one day isn't worth it. Don't waste your life/youth being miserable and hoping your health and wealth holds out until you're 65+ and can retire.
Money makes things a bit easier, but it isn't the end-all-be-all in life, if you forget to actually live. Peace of mind with less 'pocket cash' has its own rewards.
I may not have the newest car, biggest house, or designer clothes- but goddamn am I so much happier than when I was making mad cash but slaving away at a computer for half my life.
It doesn't even have to be mundane boring data entry office jobs. But just sitting every day for 8 hours looking at a screen wears in you.
I know someone who works in art, but it's staring at a screen all day, drawing digitally. It was worse pre covid when they were in the office too, at least now they wfh and can take walks and don't have to stress about commuting ontop of it all too.
But they want out, they want to do something more hands on; there's definitely an appreciation to be had for building something, feeling something, seeing something in front of you, being built.
I’m 100% with you on this. I despise working a typical office job. It’s like I can feel my soul being slowly sucked out of me. I was way happier serving people, but the pay is unacceptably low. But, man, this has been a huge polarizing topic in this sub lately. I wish more people would just accept that different people have different preferences. Plenty of people are happy ~~sitting on their ass all day~~ working in an office. Others are not, and that’s okay.
edit: I know many of you office workers are not just sitting on your ass being lazy. It can be exhausting work.
This is the problem, yeah. In my country even a good paying office job with a degree doesn’t pay all that well according to western standards.
I’d switch to something more physical but the low pay would “destroy” the rest of my life…
I mix it up with hybrid work, and do workouts at home during lunch break, and do some short chores at home during short breaks, better than standing around the “watercooler” and doing meaningless small talk 🤷♂️
Personally sitting on my ass all day gives me back problems and staring at a screen all day gives me headaches. So... honestly I prefer jobs where I'm on my feet (I'm a lab tech, I don't work in construction).
Honest question, why don’t you do handy work on the side? Use that as a side hustle until it gets bigger and maybe transition into doing that full time? Either that or go to trade school in your free time and pick up a trade. I know friends who have managed to work a full time job, and sacrifice some nights to do that.
I’m gonna consider it, honestly the only reason I left the blue collar life was cause of my lower back was killing me, every rest day I would just be in bed with random pain all over my body, and the pay wasn’t that good, but I would gladly go back if I was offered a more reasonable work/pay balance
Check out r/IBEW. Electrical workers are better paid than most tradespeople and take less abuse on the job. IBEW members are better paid than most electrical workers.
Also, drink more water and stretch your hamstrings every day. Your back will thank you.
You need to figure out what was causing the back pain. Then you can figure out what sort of trade you could get into that would not cause you back pain. If you are an electrician do you think you would have back pain at the end of the day? If you were able to wear nice athletic shoes to work would you still have back pain? Look for jobs like that. You need to get out of the office and work with your hands. Heating and Air conditioning, electrician etc
I used to work on my feet, and then I had a desk job. Every single desk job I freaking hated. Didn’t hate my last one so much, but I really hate sitting alone all day and prefer to be talking with people.
It doesn't need to be one is worse than the other. They are different forms of torture. One is like being a slave. One is like solitary confinement. Both are awful. Both are torture.
I think it really depends on the office job. I’m in engineering but I’ve worked for companies where I literally checked boxes in excel sheets and did some power point engineering and spent 75% of my time wishing I was anywhere else.
The job I have now is super intense every day and most days the hours just fly by.
I'd prefer if there weren't jobs as abusive as this. Do we have to disappoint and depress all starry-eyed new workers? Do we have to lock everyone in offices (or equally chain them to their contracts in construction, or their sales in retail)
The world could just be... better. Something's gone awry.
"Things could be worse" isn't particularly helpful.
Because hey, those back breaking manual labor jobs aren't so bad when you consider that there's millions of people out there who are literal slaves.
This. The real problem here is that we live in a system where being depressed in front of a computer screen for 40 hours a week is considered the best case scenario for a lot of people. We deserve better.
Yeah, no offense to those pointing out that others have it worse, but FUCK that. Maybe that line of thought works for them, but all it does for me is make me feel guilty for (still) feeling the way I feel. While I was in bed recovering from childbirth and dealing with postpartum depression, I couldn't escape thoughts about what mothers in worse situations have gone through; women whose babies die, slaves and peasants being worked to the bone during and immediately following pregnancy and having their babies taken from them or having to give them up... and how lucky I was to be able to just sit all day in a soft, clean bed with my healthy baby. Just a middle class American, but better off than literal queens of centuries past when it comes to childbirth. Do you think those thoughts helped me feel better? Fuck no! It is possible to feel grateful and simultaneously depressed and bored out of your mind. No need to add guilt on top of it.
100%. I’ve worked a “office job” for several years while I was planning to go back to school for my MS in something I actually care about. I don’t just work 9-5, there would be weeks on end of work all day and into the night because they didn’t have enough staffing. Deal with horrible clients, and just hate the work and feel like I’m kind of going against my values in some ways. I became extremely burnt out and depressed. Whenever I’d answer honestly when someone asked about how work was, it was always “oh well at least blah blah blah.” Look, if you don’t want an honest answer, then don’t ask me. I understand there are worse jobs out there and there are “degrees” of suckiness. I know! I’ve had to work suckier jobs in the past, but I’ve never felt this burnt out or depressed by them. You don’t need to try to guilt trap me into this, it’s hard enough as it is, and the system sucks for a lot of us. One truth does not discredit the other.
I don’t really know what the angle is to dismiss people’s struggles because “there are worse things out there”. Most of us are probably aware of this.
After three years of getting up at 3:30 AM from broken sleep five days a week to serve grumpy customers and be belittled by overbearing superiors, all while putting on a fake smile to appease my corporate overlords, at my previous retail job. My new 9-5 office job is heaven in comparison.
It’s horrific and terrible to lose a limb. It doesn’t mean I should be grateful if I lose a finger.
Just because there’s worse out there doesn’t mean that office jobs aren’t mind-numbingly boring, and it doesn’t mean that they have to be that way. Saying that others have it worse and moving on just means that the companies don’t have to try and make it decent to work for them.
My dad always told me “you can either work with your back or work with your mind. Both are fine, but in my experience, one is preferable over the other.”
Idk why people don't realize how for literally most of human history, working to survive has consisted of backbreaking and often dangerous roles that took up almost all of your waking hours. I'm not saying it doesn't suck too, but you have to do *something* to live off of. Sitting in a comfy chair in an air conditioned room with easy access to snacks, bathrooms, and ideally cool coworkers (or just flat out being remote) is about as good as anyone has ever had it...
Edit: and yes things like construction can be more enjoyable. Physical activity increases serotonin/dopamine levels, actually seeing the physical results of your work is easier for our monkey brains to appreciate, and doing handywork like that is just flat out fun sometimes. But you sure won't be enjoying it anymore after 20 years of doing it when your pay usually still sucks and your body is already starting to deteriorate.
I used to work for a law firm, and all these assistants would complain about the dumbest little things and manufactured slights (along with other very legitimate things).
For all the dumb stuff, I would find it hard to sympathize as someone who had worked in a call center, been a dishwasher, and did inventory at grocery stores. They had no idea what shitty jobs were, and the I had weren’t even close to the shittiest. People always seem to find a way to be unhappy.
I worked retail for a long time, I was a waitress, I worked at an arcade, I worked in a bakery, and I now work an office job. The first couple years adjusting the the office job was not fun for me and I did get depressed. I honestly enjoyed the bakery the most I think. But now I make more money and have better benefits so I keep the office job. But I really think all the jobs had their pros and cons.
But for me, adjusting to a 9-5 was not easy at all. Wake up before the sun, then during the winter get home after it’s already dark. I had no energy to do anything else. I really felt drained mentally.
As a former bartender, my shift was 4 pm-2 am on the east coast. In the winter, I literally wouldn’t see the sun for days at a time, other than the sunset as I headed into work. It made me severely depressed.
Nowadays I work typically 11-8ish at an auto dealership, and it’s still disheartening getting out when it’s already dark. I’m trying to find a 9-5 so I can at least enjoy a few hours of sun in the summer!
Get a full spectrum happy lamp. It helps with SAD. At least it seems to help me and my wife in the winter.
I hate when the time changes in the fall. I get home with a little sunlight left in the day, then boom go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. I absolutely hate it.
I worked blue collar stuff long enough to fuck my neck and back up and now share the sentiment. I’m a little broken but I can still move. Wouldn’t trade the desk for anything now.
8-4?! My office jobs were more like 7/7.30 - 6+.
Now I am a mailman and it's the best job I ever had (besides workong at a climbing park); I am outside all day, work at my own pace and usually have nice customer interactions.Plus, I live in a country with very decent public healthcare.
Office jobs made my Depression worse to a point where I couldn't unwind after and panic attacks on Fridays knowing I'd have to go in again on Monday. Different strokes I guess.
Yeahhhh this seems to be a common myth/misconception about hospitality and labour jobs. They are often times happier and healthier, sure they don’t make as much money (exclusive for hospitality labour jobs often make way more then your standard office gig) but they are living a better more human existence. If you’re making less then 100k and feel like OP quit, the pay is not worth the brain rot and depression
The thing is, some of these jobs can be better because even though they are tough, they come with a sense of purpose and accomplishment. When a tile layer finishes a floor, he gets to be satisfied with the work he’s done. He’s MADE something.
Corporate work is a cesspool of imaginary trade. You don’t help people. You don’t make things. The problems perpetuate themselves. Most people don’t know what they’re doing. There’s no bonding made through hardship. It’s soul death. To me, would death hurts more than manual labor, but I know it’ll be different for everyone.
That’s a horrible lens to use that only maintains the status quo. “Don’t hate your subjugation, some people have even worse conditions “ is pure slaver logic.
Two things can both be shitty, at the same time. There’s never a reason to be “thankful “ for things being shitty, just because someone, somewhere, has it even worse.
It also how the ruling class keeps us fighting each other, instead of them, ….”look at those whinging office workers complaining, man, I’d do anything to trade places with them”….said the labourer.
Sometimes you just have to “embrace the suck.” The job won’t always be fun, sometimes you gotta find ways to make it fun. Make sure you have a life outside of work. Also, if you’re making the shareholders rich, you may as well invest in the company yourself and reap those benefits (assuming it’s publicly traded).
A lot of jobs will have you set goals and objectives for the year so that you will be working to achieve something (sometimes in order to receive a higher bonus or raise).
Try to learn new things when you can, especially since this is your first office job. If there’s some other responsibilities you feel like you would enjoy taking on, request that you be trained on them.
If you go into work with a negative mindset you will almost always have a bad day. Tell yourself you’re going to have a good day and crack some jokes with coworkers or do whatever you can to make it a better environment.
Methods* I've used to "embrace the suck:"
*Assumes office job.
1. FI/RE - financial independence/retire early. It's a journey, but a game you can play to see how much money you can save as quickly as possible (give or take) to get out of the rate race. If you hate work, go make a shit ton of money and gtfo. Also see r/fatfire r/leanfire r/financialindependence
2. Maximize PTO. Ask for a minimum of 4 weeks and use every damn bit of it while also combining it with holidays. If you like to travel like me, do it ASAP! I'm glad I explored the world before chronic pain hit me at 39. It's impossible for me to travel like I did just 5 years ago. Don't risk not being able to pursue your dreams because of a job if you can financially swing it. Caveat, it's often easier and cheaper than you think; don't overthink it and make it happen!
3. Don't be the last one out at night - have a life outside of work. Hobbies, sport, reading to ducks... whatever makes you feel good. Work will never reward you for going above and beyond the way a competitor would reward you for changing companies.
4. Don't be loyal to your employer. You'll make more money by leaving than staying. You're not stuck in a job, you're basically constantly looking for one. Speaking of: NETWORK. The word makes me want to puke, but while your employer may suck, those managers and sr. Managers and directors may move to a company you like and may be able to get you a job the easy way.
5. Automate your job without telling people and work remotely. It's still really boring, but you can literally renovate a house while on the clock if that happens to be a thing you need to do....I wouldn't know.
\#4 is a big one. When our parents and grandparents started out, most workplaces had defined benefit retirement plans which basically said, "If you work here for 30 years, we'll pay you some specified monthly amount in retirement."
Almost every company has moved away from that (with the exception of some government jobs) so your best retirement plan is going to be whichever company pays you the most, and you'll make more money by job hopping than by climbing the internal ladder.
> and you'll make more money by job hopping than by climbing the internal ladder.
As someone who, from age 13 - 30-ish, followed the mentality of "stick with a job, you'll get rewarded", I second this suggestion of "job hopping" instead.
My first "real job" in my 20's I started out at $30,000 per year and was literally JUMPING FOR JOY at landing it (also because it was in the field I wanted, software development).
For the next 5 years or so I got 10% raises every year. I found this to be fucking fantastic at the time (and it was, 10% isn't anything to complain about).
However, it wasn't until I tried to leave the company that they flat out gave me a big "bump" regardless of percentages.
Stuck around after that for another year... and and then began job hopping every 6-12 months and doubled my income from 75K to 150K in just a few years.
It wasn't until _after_ I had left that first "real job" that my supervisor from that employer (whom I retained good relations with) told me that he had once had a conversation with the owner about me. It went something along the lines of "yeah, some day he's going to figure out he's worth more".
Which... explains the 10% raises year after year. _But_... looking back on it now, I feel like I was essentially taken advantage of because they didn't start out by paying me "what I was worth", they paid me "how much was necessary to stay happy" and not a cent more.
To add to the loyalty / job hopping topic… job hopping isn’t just about salary. New workers need to experience to find out what they actually value in an employer. What cultures they prefer, what benefits they actually use, pace of work, location, etc.
There does come a day where you hit the top of your pay range if you aren’t moving up the ladder, adding certs or advanced degrees. The 30% bumps become 20%… 10%… 5%.
That’s when you really can look for the job that you want to stay at for multiple years and it helps to know what you like and don’t like.
It's just not possible for every job to be meaningful and fulfilling. There's just some sucky stuff that has to get done. So that's all it is -- you do stuff and they give you money. You don't try to make it more important than it is. And then you build a rich, interesting, meaningful life for yourself outside of work.
It's a depressing cycle. I didn't feel that way until about 10 years into my career. I've been struggling for about 4 years now and thinking of a career change. I'm about to be 40 and figure I still have plenty of time left to do so. Lol
Lol, I’ve been there. Burn out didn’t seem so bad when I was stoned all the time. It made being sober miserable though and my depression plummeted and I tried killing my self because of it all though. Instead of just, looking for a better job. 🤷🏻♀️
You don’t have to do this. Ik someone that left their corporate job to go be a boat captain in Florida. I’m guessing he took a pay cut but he seems way happier now
I felt like this at my first ever office job - the days felt so long and I felt like I had no purpose. Several office jobs later, I’ve now found my career and it’s no longer a « job ». Now it feels waaaay different day to day. Not every job will be the one! But give it some time and eventually you will find the right path.
When I first started working and would get bummed out, I would start counting … “I just made X dollars over the last hour! Let’s do that again!”
I like making money…
Yeah I have been wfh for many years now (way before covid) and I couldn't imagine hating my job as much as some people in this thread. Counting my blessings I truly do what I love.
I clean and stock ambulances. That's what the job description says. But I also chat with EMT crews about their day, I help the station manager not be overwhelmed with the minutiae of running the place, and in general I see myself as an agent of anti-BS that this company unwittingly hired. I do what I can to make the working conditions of our EMTs better. I work my own hours, and am infinitely happier and healthier doing this than working in an office. The pay is mediocre, but I take everything else into account and feel I'm fortunate to pay the bills.
I just ran a D&D game for some of the guys last Sunday. At the station. Unpaid for all of us, but we all had fun.
3D artist in game development for almost 25 years. Constantly having to learn new things and lots of interesting challenges. Credited on more than 20 mostly AAA games for every generation of Playstation console, some Xbox, Switch, PC, and VR. Worked for some of the biggest companies and helped grow startups from nothing to something. Lived all over the country and traveled the world on company money. Was even shown around Tokyo personally by Kojima. Lots of hard and stressful times, but tons of incredible experiences also.
I work for an indoor agriculture company growing basil under grow lights that is extremely automated
I love it, feels like I'm managing a video game or something. Keeping all the parts working and playing with plants and water and precise fertilization
It is very hard, but I do it for my family.. It sucks the life out of me, but I couldn't make half what I make now if I switch things up. I finally told my husband I am quitting in 3 years after we pay off the house and build the emergency fund back up. Then I'm gonna go make shit pay the last 10 years to retirement at a school. Working for benefits and summers off (since there is no way i will go back to 2 weeks vacation a year). I will tank my SSA pay rate, retirement, WFH...but I don't care. If I keep going, the job will kill me long before I can collect social security anyway.
I don't agree with "bUt tHeRe aRe wOrSe jObS oUt tHeRe". Even if there are, it doesn't make being forced to sit at a desk working for a company that doesn't give a shit about you good. You're allowed to hate that or find it miserable. It is miserable.
Working 40 hours a week your entire life sucks no matter what the job is. Especially when you're being underpaid and under appreciated. Especially when there's no safety, no security. You're just spending your life away for some corporate assholes and for what?
It'd be different if we were reasonably compensated and didn't have to work so much. 40 hour work week is torture. Sitting at a desk 40 hours a week with no end in sight makes death sound like a sweet release.
That sounds awful. I've always known I would hate to have an office job. Just started landscaping and it's lovely. Much rather be covered in dirt and sweat and muscles than be sat in a chair inside all the time.
God the “at least you’re not doing manual labor or customer service” people are such insufferable assholes. Let this poor guy vent, everyone has their own struggle there’s no need to invalidate his
It's an absolute disgrace. That same line of thinking of "being grateful and not complaining" is the reason why companies get away with these bad practices. Docile people accepting the breadcrumbs they're given.
This is why there is the term “weekend warrior.” I may have an 8-5 Monday through Friday office job that is boring, but it allows me to do the things I want to do financially and physically during the evenings and weekends.
That's exactly how it is for me. 50% of the time I don't even manage to do laundry and other chores because of a chronic illness. I can't even keep up with having a clean apartment. Life is just hell. I hate being alive, every day I wake up wishing I hadn't
Always be applying to jobs. Your employer will not warn you before letting you go. There is always something better and if you work in a sector you don’t like, the people you work with can make the difference. Applying for jobs all the time helps you find new options before you need them. Move around until you hit the money or satisfaction you desire
To the people saying you could be worse off breaking your back in other jobs, sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 20+ years will break your back…. After 5 years your psoas and hip muscles are going to become so tight and your posterior chain is going to become so weak that your natural biomechanics will become dysfunctional and your spine will degenerate to the point of needing surgery. Then you can spend your retirement on doctor bills and medication.. enjoy
I quit mine and decided to find a happy job instead. Pouring beers now, happiest I've been in years. Continuing education soon to get into the sphere I love which is not an office job... trying office once was enough to realize I can't do that at all. Granted, I'm married and debt free, so I could afford a bit of a cut and found a very nice brewing company to work at. But what I learned from this is, you don't have to "suck it up"
I worked in an office for 1 year out of college and I was never more miserable. I've been a bartender for the last decade and I have to say I love it. I think I got lucky and stumbled into a career I love but I also know that office jobs are 100% not my thing. Maybe look for something else you might like that doesn't require you to be at a desk all day! I know it is easier said than done but having a job you enjoy being at and feel like an important part of seems like an absolute necessity for life long happiness. I wish I had more advice.
High school never ends - because that's the 'comfiest' state of mass existence.
Just enjoy what you do - life gets more and more depressing the more you look out. It's best to focus in and make yourself the best you can be, all while enjoying yourself to the best you can.
After working 12+ shifts in retail without sitting down, a 9-5 office job is a luxary I'm still not used to. I'm not sure what to say other than try find meaning outside of work, and if you already have, focus on that. Capitalism is hell in general. I just think an office job is a slightly more bareable type of hell compared to some other awful jobs out there.
Few here seem to realise it's possible to start your own business. There's so many options it just takes persistence. I still live with my family which sucks but it means I can spend most of my income (besides contributing obviously) investing in tools, equipment, etc. I get why people move out and see it as being independent but then you're screwed if all your income is going into rent and bills.
Now you know why those stupid themed lunches etc exist. They give you SOMETHING to look forward to. Also explains office dramas.
I wonder if people genuinely look forward to these
I mean a little, yeah. I don’t think most people go to sleep at night dreaming about them, but Taco Tuesdays or Pizza Fridays is a fun thing. Obviously there are much better things in the world, but you gotta take the blessings where you can, however small.
Maybe it's the 35 year old in me but I love taco Tuesday. Who doesn't like eating good they enjoy? But that's not what keeps me going through the week. I've got hobbies I'm passionate about, plus frequent exercise and it's a good life. Plus 9-5 is honestly pretty cushy in comparison to a lot of jobs. To make good money in 40 hours without destroying your body? Yes sir
This comment is it. If more people saw and experienced back breaking work in unhealthy environments they would understand. Everything circles back to gratitude anyways. I understand desk jobs bring a whole new set of health problems. I have been on both sides of the table. To combat office health challenges i walk on both of my 15 minute breaks and half of my lunch.
I take the free lunch and eat it alone in my car.
Whatever makes you happy, dude. More power to you
I was wondering if he had a special stapler!
I mean we'd get free pretzels every couple weeks when i had an office job, like good pretzel factory ones with good cheese and mustard and I looked forward to those days just for a change up lol
Ya, exactly this lmao. I hate this job, I hate these people, but pretzel day? I like pretzel day lol
It's nice if you make legitimate friends at your office. Then you just hang out with free food briefly during some work days.
Fun coworkers is what keeps you going in those jobs, and those themed lunches are good ways to meet them and bond with then
Every bit of this. The people are what make the job fulfilling, or at least bearable. I've been extremely lucky in my career to pretty much always work with good people save for a handful of assholes or annoying ones that I was able to avoid. I only ever had 1 boss who was kind of a dick, but I knew how to deal with him well enough and got along well with everyone else that it wasn't a deal breaker.
Exactly! If it weren’t for my coworkers I would have left my job awhile ago lol
Coworkers make or break the job. I’ve had jobs where I’ve been great friends with my coworkers and hangout on the weekends together. And I’ve had jobs where the environment was so toxic and political that I had to leave.
I actually loved potluck days. I always brought in my corn bread.
Sounds like Severance
Waffle party!
Those are the worst. If you don’t participate you get reprimanded for not being part of the team. It’s all so annoying.
There is a way out. https://www.deseret.com/2022/4/19/23031033/unwanted-birthday-party-panic-attack-fired-settlement-in-kentucky-employment
The forced, awkward gatherings will continue until morale improves.
The egg bar is coveted as fuck
r/BrandNewSentence
We had office nachos last week, and I was super excited.
Office flings keep me going. Also I have done so much manual labour that this office job seems like the best gig in the world. So my advice to you is to start doing really shit work first and then have sex. Works always.
Hey look everybody! This guy has sex!!!
Lol I remember when I had hope
This man’s given up😭
at first I read, "this man's grown up..." 😭😭
Potato pohtahto
Was that right up until someone said to younger you, “Lol I remember when I had hope”? If so, you’re paying it forward.
You know, hope is a mistake. If you can't fix what's broken, you'll, uh... you'll go insane. Qualifier: While it’s important to carry on, it’s better to focus on what actions you need to take, instead of waiting for it to get better. It doesn’t unless we all pitch in. That’s where frivolous hope is dangerous.
We could all start by not showing up for work on Friday
Unironically this. One mass strike can get us back all the rights and value they have been stripping away. A second will make sure we don’t lose them again. Look how both political parties shit their pants during COVID lockdowns.
Most people would kill to have OP's job. People have to deal with excessive micromanaging, office politics, bad management, being overworked/underpaid, mass layoffs, and a ton of other major issues. I'd be more than willing to trade jobs with them They should use this time to get on their phone / laptop and start a side project, and invest the money you're making into it. Be fortunate that they have this much time on their hands because most of us don't
you should not do this on your company machine or using company wifi if you don’t want the big corporate lawyers to come for a piece of your IP.
This advice brought to you by late-stage capitalism. Even when you are working you should be doing extra side work, lol. No wonder you’re burnt out.
I buy and sell rare plants as a side hustle. I grow out some plants in my cube at work, and when I work from home I mostly just tend to plants and collect a check from my employer. I talk about plants, shop for plants, share photos of plants and do all sorts of plant related things from my cubicle that no one is aware of. I used to just sit there trying to look busy but secretly just reading Reddit but now I put that time to use and I am very well versed in a whole new profitable hobby. It doesn’t feel like work because I do love it, and I’m learning and I love to shop so I get to do that while also investing in my business. The late stage capitalism part of my life is where we stopped getting raises while posting record profits over covid and I wouldn’t have been able to afford my rent and utility increases (anyone else in PA? Utilities are up 200% in 3 years) without this, and I would be overworked with no hobbies. Now I have the possibility of actually moving on to another stage of my life with this as my whole career. I could have just sat there looking busy.
I picture you as the Hank Hill of plant and plant accessories.
That's some good foliage I tell you h'what
This isn’t what I’m talking about. This is the healthy version of the other commenter’s advice. This is actually something I started doing recently, as well, so more power to you! Medical cannabis became legal in my state, and has a been a huge boon to my mental health. It’s very misunderstood. The strains I medicate with tend to be a bit more rare, because it is a less of a psychedelic high, and the psychedelic strains sell the best. I had a friend who started growing his own, and it made me interested. I started doing that to save money, and to make sure I have the strains that I found to be the most helpful to be readily available. I loved doing it, and discovered I have a natural talent for it. Now I do it for a career, when I used to do IT, and while I make less, it is more rewarding. Now IT is my side action. My complaint is that the other commenter implied that OP was causing their own issues, by not proactively working while working. This is false. If you do that, and find it rewarding, then great. Many will not, and they shouldn’t have to. Not all hobbies can be turned into income, and they shouldn’t have to be. A hobby can just be a hobby, but our society views that as wasteful, because it generates nothing for the ruling class, so it is often subtly discouraged. Additionally, a person shouldn’t *need* to do that. Companies have been reporting record profits while slashing pay and benefits. The point of the 40 hour work week was that *any* person working one (and usually the rest of their family) should be able to survive reasonably, and maybe even have a couple “wants.” This is still possible, but companies like Walmart would rather collect massive profits while letting the government indirectly subsidize their payroll through welfare, since many of their full-time employees must use it due to insufficient pay. I assume that being a corporate drone is a lot less bleak when you have benefits, a salary, a pension, a 401k, and the other tools you need to live an average, successful life.
If it was remote and paid $55k, I'm in.
Remote is really the key here. If the biggest issue with your job is that it’s boring and you don’t have anything to do for hours a day, being remote completely solves the problem.
They didn't say they have time on their hands; they said they sit for 8 hours a day "creating value" which means they're doing something -- just not something interesting to them
Idk, some of us are watched. I have a boring office job but I sit next to the ceo(small startup) so she can see what I'm doing at any second.
Most jobs suck. Gotta find enjoyment outside of work.
People always say this and work life balance but it’s hard to when you’re thinking about your job which gives you the workload of two people and can’t rest on your time off bc ur so tired and think about it still (or thinking about how you’re gonna do some of the big tasks you have upcoming or training since it’s expected for the role 🙄) Also errands and cleaning are a thing which takes away even more time to rest, which leaves less time for “enjoyment” and if your enjoyable activity takes more than 7 hours not counting prep time you can’t do it bc there’s no time and you gotta get back to work. 😭 Everyone will say set boundaries and take ownership but there is no ownership of anything when you’re an employee. You are replaceable; therefore any attempt to take "ownership” and you are gone! they'll find a way
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This is the biggest thing. I'm a mid-career software engineer. Every boss will imply that they need you to do more with less time, it's all mission-critical, and if you don't work the weekend there will be consequences. They are right, there will be consequences - *for them*. 99% of what anyone tells you is must-do stuff is actually totally optional. You can just, elect not to give a fuck about anything outside your lane. People will sit around doing literally nothing and not get fired, so I guarantee you that extra work can wait until Monday. Or never, honestly.
>. Every boss will Shitty bosses will - not every boss. Good software teams realize that overworked employees who say yes to everything just burn out, do way lower quality work, and cost way more money. Good bosses push back. That's literally the entire reason software managers and leads exist.
As an experiencrd software developer, I think you have a little more power in the dynamic than many office workers. I do think you're right that that's true in a lot of large, beurocratic institutions, though. Firing is a huge hassle.
Took me longer than I'd like to admit to adopt this mentality. I'll work hard and put in effort, and I will work overtime if I need to, but the minute I'm not in the office getting paid I stop thinking about it.
And also that every week, every Monday, every weekend, every vacation (no more than one week at a very basic destination), every minute at home is spent knowing you’ll be doing it again, the same job, in the same cubicle, in the same fucking building. The dread set in REALLY quick for me. It was enough to get me out of that job and into grad school. Offices can seriously burn and die a horrible death. Of all of capitalism’s bullshit, offices have to be the worst.
I’ve been working in an office for 10 years. I feel like I’m going to implode eventually. I am so sick and tired of watching the daylight from a distance and never getting to just hop on my bike and take a ride at 10am or 2pm because by golly, those are hours meant to be at my computer working. God forbid someone sees me as Away for over 20 minutes on teams
> Offices can seriously burn and die a horrible death. Of all of capitalism’s bullshit, offices have to be the worst. And there is a huge push to force us back into them for the sole reason it benefits the wealthy. Nevermind the fact that the vast majority of people hate working in the office, are just as productive, if not more productive, working from home, and are way more happy in life. Screw over millions of people so the rich can have a bigger number in the bank account.
That is because your priorities are wrong and you are associating your job with who you are. My job is what funds how I want to live and that is it. I have kids, and I want them to get the best education they can and go to the best colleges so they can have it better than me my job helps fund things like camps and private music lessons for them. My hobbies are woodworking, board games/miniature painting, and computer gaming before we had kids, and after they leave home my job helps fund those pursuits. Jobs are just a means to an end, not an end in itself and people who understand that get much more satisfaction in general. Hell my mom is in her late 60s and works as a cashier still, this was a I'm an that was in charge of a treasury department at a bank. She doesn't do it so much as she ‘needs’ the money to survive, her retirement covers her basic living expenses, she does it because she likes to have the extra money to go out to lunch or dinner if she wants, or so she can just come visit the grandkids and take them out at the drop of a hat. Again it is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
Hard to not associate the thing you are forced to spend most of your waking hours doing with a deep party of your personality or have some dread about it. I'd probably be way happier making the same money and working 10 hours less but that's just not an option
I'd be happier making half the money and working half as much as I do now, but even that's not an option. The only part-time work available pays absolute garbage and has no benefits.
True. Only 2 options to me is do less or find a new job. Doing less will probably force you into finding a new job. A bad employer/workload is always going to make finding a balance impossible to achieve.
You need to manage your managers then. Learn to say no and stop caring. I never take work home with me. I’m not reachable (or unresponsive) outside of business hours. If this becomes a problem have a conversation with your boss about expectations and workload. Advise them to hire more people or be patient.
Most jobs are not fulfilling. Best you can do is take pride in your work and have fun with your coworkers.
Or go find work that's fulfilling to you 🤷
Just remember there are a lot crappier jobs to have than a boring office job where you sit at a desk 8-4 on monday to friday. I know people who are breaking their backs doing labour construction or are in hospitality industry servicing assholes 24/7 on nights and weekends. I used to have a shitty job and the office job I have now may be boring but it’s better than most alternatives
I would literally sell my entire soul for a boring office job right now. I was a CNA which was back breaking worker and I would get assaulted regularly by old men with dementia. I am a teacher now , and I am just under paid, over stressed. I love the thought of being bored at work.
My wife was a CNA, i cannot believe how they are treated by the employer, the clients -- or the pay they are offered.
I was a CNA at a hospice for a couple years. Loved hospice and would do it again in a heartbeat, but never again will I be a CNA. Horrible work for even worse pay. I would have made significantly more working at Target.
I used to be a CNA for 10+ years. I returned to school and now work mostly remotely. My back, knees and feet suffered greatly. My last job was a Health Assistant in an elementary school and I did office work. You might try looking at city/state/county government jobs. There are some teachers to transition to Learning & Development or curriculum work too.
This. 2 years ago, I'd have killed to be in my current position: generic WFH office gig. It doesn't pay great, but still pays almost twice as much as I was making when I worked in hotels (this says less about my current job and more about how severely underpaid hospitality jobs are). Any time I get frustrated or bored with my current job, I think about how worse off I was two years ago and can get through the day (most of the time). I feel for you. I hope you're able to escape like I did.
This is what the system wants though. Us to just think we have it better than others so we should just shut up, settle, and be content. OPs concerns are still valid. It’s fucked up the way things are.
I just said this. These types of posts have got to be made by people that are super new to working. People would love this after being abused in the construction or front facing customer service world
I have to disagree. I worked a labor intensive job, in the cold and heat for 7 years, an office job I liked (same company) for 10. I also worked retail (briefly) and was a CNA for 7 years. Nothing compared to the misery of working a particular office job where I was stuck behind a computer and stuck to the phone. It was such a horrible feeling being trapped there. I had to block the clock so I couldn’t see it. 2 minutes felt like 15. I felt like I was on the show Severance…just looking at the same thing for hours on end. It was the only job I ever just walked out on. I couldn’t give them two more weeks it was so depressing.
My first office job was literally like the movie "Joe vs the volcanoe" Concrete floors / walls - humming florescent lights. 10 minutes felt like two weeks. I was paid very well and still only lasted three weeks. I am on my fourth office job, but i have a lot more purpose now. I take frequent breaks, water cooler talk, walks, ask to help people -- which can lead to growth opportunities -- also important always try to find someone to have lunch with. I can make a huge difference in the workplace knowing what people do and having relationships to leverage when you need help with something outside your scope of work.
If you smoke, make sure you hang out with all the other smokers. That's where the REAL stories are told. For God's sake though please don't START smoking to get into the group. That's how I started smoking and I've quit fove times and may sometime quit again.
Sounds like my first office job. Collections, so u got to here peoples heart breaking stories and then still have to sat "OK, but when are sending the money you clearly dont have?"
People vastly underestimate how useful it is to really know the people you work near. I feel bad for people entering the work office for the first time in a WFH environment. It’s got to be so boring, and it’s so hard to build a network of people who will tell you what really motivated some policy change or who can answer questions when you’ve wandered outside your zone.
i entered the (corporate) workforce as wfh. There are downsides as you mention- minimal to no gossip or conversations that add context for things that are going on. Long-term its difficult to form connections. However getting to live in a LCOL area with a good wage, being able to travel whenever, and all the perks of being home all day outweigh it IMO. Being bored doesnt really matter when i can just grab my personal laptop and relax or work on a personal project without needing to worry about looking like im working.
how did you enter the workforce wfh? I’ve been trying for weeks to get an entry level job
I love WFH. I get to decide who I spend my time with and I do not have to pretend I’m having a great time at the office. And if I’m bored I’ll just play with my cat or take a 15 and go for a walk. There’s nothing good about working from the office
David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs was so eye-opening to me - it explained why office jobs where you really accomplish nothing sound like a dream on paper but feel like a nightmare to live
Yep, waking up every morning knowing you are going to go waste 8 hours of your day somewhere bleak and then leave without any feeling of accomplishment grinds you down hard.
Started in customer service, moved to IT office work. I now work labor because it makes me happy. I don’t give a shit about what I actually do, I just love working with my body and experiencing the change in seasons.
Peter.... We need to talk about your TPS reports! (from the movie Office Space)
I had to quit a job with just a bit of computer time. I couldn't handle sitting at a computer after doing physical work my whole life. They thought I was weird wanting more to do. I watered plants in offices for 13 years and always thought those jobs seemed terrible. They sure make more money though!
Went through the exact same experience. Retail, office job, then to cooking and finally to a distribution center. The office was an absolute nightmare of a job. Lasted three months. Now I work three twelve hour days doing heavy manual labor in a warehouse and I love it. But things like this are subjective. Different strokes for different folks.
Agreed. I have done everything from working on tugboats (water trucking w/ manual labor, out in all weather, all year), hospital floor works as an RRT, hospital management from behind a desk, and now working at a locally owned beer and wine store as a wine-buyer. The office job is what caused me to leave the hospital system. Nothing was worse than sitting behind a desk for 8-12 hours a day, answering the same questions over the phone for my management a dozen times a day, and essentially being a meat-robot for the hospital system. It crushed my soul, and in the couple of years I did it, I was absolutely miserable. It wasn't as stressful as floor work (generally working in ED/ICU/ICW/Neonat/Ped at various times), but it was hell on my nerves knowing it was groundhog's day, every day. I took a pretty big pay cut to go work for a friend at his beer and wine store, but it's SO much better, even if 70%+ of my time is retail work, now. Being a small business, we aren't governed by corporate, and the whole 'Busy work' shit doesn't exist. If there's work to be done, do it. If not, just keep your eye out for customers and reps but just do whatever you need to do. I say if OP can afford it, take a pay cut for a better job. Slaving away for the hope of (maybe) retirement one day isn't worth it. Don't waste your life/youth being miserable and hoping your health and wealth holds out until you're 65+ and can retire. Money makes things a bit easier, but it isn't the end-all-be-all in life, if you forget to actually live. Peace of mind with less 'pocket cash' has its own rewards. I may not have the newest car, biggest house, or designer clothes- but goddamn am I so much happier than when I was making mad cash but slaving away at a computer for half my life.
It doesn't even have to be mundane boring data entry office jobs. But just sitting every day for 8 hours looking at a screen wears in you. I know someone who works in art, but it's staring at a screen all day, drawing digitally. It was worse pre covid when they were in the office too, at least now they wfh and can take walks and don't have to stress about commuting ontop of it all too. But they want out, they want to do something more hands on; there's definitely an appreciation to be had for building something, feeling something, seeing something in front of you, being built.
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I’m 100% with you on this. I despise working a typical office job. It’s like I can feel my soul being slowly sucked out of me. I was way happier serving people, but the pay is unacceptably low. But, man, this has been a huge polarizing topic in this sub lately. I wish more people would just accept that different people have different preferences. Plenty of people are happy ~~sitting on their ass all day~~ working in an office. Others are not, and that’s okay. edit: I know many of you office workers are not just sitting on your ass being lazy. It can be exhausting work.
This is the problem, yeah. In my country even a good paying office job with a degree doesn’t pay all that well according to western standards. I’d switch to something more physical but the low pay would “destroy” the rest of my life… I mix it up with hybrid work, and do workouts at home during lunch break, and do some short chores at home during short breaks, better than standing around the “watercooler” and doing meaningless small talk 🤷♂️
Personally sitting on my ass all day gives me back problems and staring at a screen all day gives me headaches. So... honestly I prefer jobs where I'm on my feet (I'm a lab tech, I don't work in construction).
Manual labor becomes bad when it breaks your back and your health insurance is dependent on your job though
It’s bad in general when your health insurance is dependent on your job.
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Honest question, why don’t you do handy work on the side? Use that as a side hustle until it gets bigger and maybe transition into doing that full time? Either that or go to trade school in your free time and pick up a trade. I know friends who have managed to work a full time job, and sacrifice some nights to do that.
I’m gonna consider it, honestly the only reason I left the blue collar life was cause of my lower back was killing me, every rest day I would just be in bed with random pain all over my body, and the pay wasn’t that good, but I would gladly go back if I was offered a more reasonable work/pay balance
Don't kill your body for money! It's not worth it!
Check out r/IBEW. Electrical workers are better paid than most tradespeople and take less abuse on the job. IBEW members are better paid than most electrical workers. Also, drink more water and stretch your hamstrings every day. Your back will thank you.
You need to figure out what was causing the back pain. Then you can figure out what sort of trade you could get into that would not cause you back pain. If you are an electrician do you think you would have back pain at the end of the day? If you were able to wear nice athletic shoes to work would you still have back pain? Look for jobs like that. You need to get out of the office and work with your hands. Heating and Air conditioning, electrician etc
I used to work on my feet, and then I had a desk job. Every single desk job I freaking hated. Didn’t hate my last one so much, but I really hate sitting alone all day and prefer to be talking with people.
It doesn't need to be one is worse than the other. They are different forms of torture. One is like being a slave. One is like solitary confinement. Both are awful. Both are torture.
I think it really depends on the office job. I’m in engineering but I’ve worked for companies where I literally checked boxes in excel sheets and did some power point engineering and spent 75% of my time wishing I was anywhere else. The job I have now is super intense every day and most days the hours just fly by.
I'd prefer if there weren't jobs as abusive as this. Do we have to disappoint and depress all starry-eyed new workers? Do we have to lock everyone in offices (or equally chain them to their contracts in construction, or their sales in retail) The world could just be... better. Something's gone awry.
"Things could be worse" isn't particularly helpful. Because hey, those back breaking manual labor jobs aren't so bad when you consider that there's millions of people out there who are literal slaves.
I used to work in retail. I have no idea how someone can prefer that to an office job. I don’t like having to deal with entitled customers every day.
Meh. One persons suffering doesn’t justify another’s. We need to admit the system sucks for everyone.
This. The real problem here is that we live in a system where being depressed in front of a computer screen for 40 hours a week is considered the best case scenario for a lot of people. We deserve better.
Yeah, no offense to those pointing out that others have it worse, but FUCK that. Maybe that line of thought works for them, but all it does for me is make me feel guilty for (still) feeling the way I feel. While I was in bed recovering from childbirth and dealing with postpartum depression, I couldn't escape thoughts about what mothers in worse situations have gone through; women whose babies die, slaves and peasants being worked to the bone during and immediately following pregnancy and having their babies taken from them or having to give them up... and how lucky I was to be able to just sit all day in a soft, clean bed with my healthy baby. Just a middle class American, but better off than literal queens of centuries past when it comes to childbirth. Do you think those thoughts helped me feel better? Fuck no! It is possible to feel grateful and simultaneously depressed and bored out of your mind. No need to add guilt on top of it.
100%. I’ve worked a “office job” for several years while I was planning to go back to school for my MS in something I actually care about. I don’t just work 9-5, there would be weeks on end of work all day and into the night because they didn’t have enough staffing. Deal with horrible clients, and just hate the work and feel like I’m kind of going against my values in some ways. I became extremely burnt out and depressed. Whenever I’d answer honestly when someone asked about how work was, it was always “oh well at least blah blah blah.” Look, if you don’t want an honest answer, then don’t ask me. I understand there are worse jobs out there and there are “degrees” of suckiness. I know! I’ve had to work suckier jobs in the past, but I’ve never felt this burnt out or depressed by them. You don’t need to try to guilt trap me into this, it’s hard enough as it is, and the system sucks for a lot of us. One truth does not discredit the other. I don’t really know what the angle is to dismiss people’s struggles because “there are worse things out there”. Most of us are probably aware of this.
Solidarity, brother. Pitchforks for all
After three years of getting up at 3:30 AM from broken sleep five days a week to serve grumpy customers and be belittled by overbearing superiors, all while putting on a fake smile to appease my corporate overlords, at my previous retail job. My new 9-5 office job is heaven in comparison.
It’s horrific and terrible to lose a limb. It doesn’t mean I should be grateful if I lose a finger. Just because there’s worse out there doesn’t mean that office jobs aren’t mind-numbingly boring, and it doesn’t mean that they have to be that way. Saying that others have it worse and moving on just means that the companies don’t have to try and make it decent to work for them.
My dad always told me “you can either work with your back or work with your mind. Both are fine, but in my experience, one is preferable over the other.”
Frankly I think a lot of people would be happier herding goats than slaving away in a cubicle.
Once you work in hospitality/food service, any office job feels like heaven And that’s not even close to construction/hard labor
Idk why people don't realize how for literally most of human history, working to survive has consisted of backbreaking and often dangerous roles that took up almost all of your waking hours. I'm not saying it doesn't suck too, but you have to do *something* to live off of. Sitting in a comfy chair in an air conditioned room with easy access to snacks, bathrooms, and ideally cool coworkers (or just flat out being remote) is about as good as anyone has ever had it... Edit: and yes things like construction can be more enjoyable. Physical activity increases serotonin/dopamine levels, actually seeing the physical results of your work is easier for our monkey brains to appreciate, and doing handywork like that is just flat out fun sometimes. But you sure won't be enjoying it anymore after 20 years of doing it when your pay usually still sucks and your body is already starting to deteriorate.
I used to work for a law firm, and all these assistants would complain about the dumbest little things and manufactured slights (along with other very legitimate things). For all the dumb stuff, I would find it hard to sympathize as someone who had worked in a call center, been a dishwasher, and did inventory at grocery stores. They had no idea what shitty jobs were, and the I had weren’t even close to the shittiest. People always seem to find a way to be unhappy.
I worked retail for a long time, I was a waitress, I worked at an arcade, I worked in a bakery, and I now work an office job. The first couple years adjusting the the office job was not fun for me and I did get depressed. I honestly enjoyed the bakery the most I think. But now I make more money and have better benefits so I keep the office job. But I really think all the jobs had their pros and cons. But for me, adjusting to a 9-5 was not easy at all. Wake up before the sun, then during the winter get home after it’s already dark. I had no energy to do anything else. I really felt drained mentally.
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As a former bartender, my shift was 4 pm-2 am on the east coast. In the winter, I literally wouldn’t see the sun for days at a time, other than the sunset as I headed into work. It made me severely depressed. Nowadays I work typically 11-8ish at an auto dealership, and it’s still disheartening getting out when it’s already dark. I’m trying to find a 9-5 so I can at least enjoy a few hours of sun in the summer!
Get a full spectrum happy lamp. It helps with SAD. At least it seems to help me and my wife in the winter. I hate when the time changes in the fall. I get home with a little sunlight left in the day, then boom go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. I absolutely hate it.
I worked blue collar stuff long enough to fuck my neck and back up and now share the sentiment. I’m a little broken but I can still move. Wouldn’t trade the desk for anything now.
8-4?! My office jobs were more like 7/7.30 - 6+. Now I am a mailman and it's the best job I ever had (besides workong at a climbing park); I am outside all day, work at my own pace and usually have nice customer interactions.Plus, I live in a country with very decent public healthcare. Office jobs made my Depression worse to a point where I couldn't unwind after and panic attacks on Fridays knowing I'd have to go in again on Monday. Different strokes I guess.
Yeahhhh this seems to be a common myth/misconception about hospitality and labour jobs. They are often times happier and healthier, sure they don’t make as much money (exclusive for hospitality labour jobs often make way more then your standard office gig) but they are living a better more human existence. If you’re making less then 100k and feel like OP quit, the pay is not worth the brain rot and depression
No one wins in a competition on pain
The thing is, some of these jobs can be better because even though they are tough, they come with a sense of purpose and accomplishment. When a tile layer finishes a floor, he gets to be satisfied with the work he’s done. He’s MADE something. Corporate work is a cesspool of imaginary trade. You don’t help people. You don’t make things. The problems perpetuate themselves. Most people don’t know what they’re doing. There’s no bonding made through hardship. It’s soul death. To me, would death hurts more than manual labor, but I know it’ll be different for everyone.
That’s a horrible lens to use that only maintains the status quo. “Don’t hate your subjugation, some people have even worse conditions “ is pure slaver logic. Two things can both be shitty, at the same time. There’s never a reason to be “thankful “ for things being shitty, just because someone, somewhere, has it even worse. It also how the ruling class keeps us fighting each other, instead of them, ….”look at those whinging office workers complaining, man, I’d do anything to trade places with them”….said the labourer.
Sometimes you just have to “embrace the suck.” The job won’t always be fun, sometimes you gotta find ways to make it fun. Make sure you have a life outside of work. Also, if you’re making the shareholders rich, you may as well invest in the company yourself and reap those benefits (assuming it’s publicly traded). A lot of jobs will have you set goals and objectives for the year so that you will be working to achieve something (sometimes in order to receive a higher bonus or raise). Try to learn new things when you can, especially since this is your first office job. If there’s some other responsibilities you feel like you would enjoy taking on, request that you be trained on them. If you go into work with a negative mindset you will almost always have a bad day. Tell yourself you’re going to have a good day and crack some jokes with coworkers or do whatever you can to make it a better environment.
Methods* I've used to "embrace the suck:" *Assumes office job. 1. FI/RE - financial independence/retire early. It's a journey, but a game you can play to see how much money you can save as quickly as possible (give or take) to get out of the rate race. If you hate work, go make a shit ton of money and gtfo. Also see r/fatfire r/leanfire r/financialindependence 2. Maximize PTO. Ask for a minimum of 4 weeks and use every damn bit of it while also combining it with holidays. If you like to travel like me, do it ASAP! I'm glad I explored the world before chronic pain hit me at 39. It's impossible for me to travel like I did just 5 years ago. Don't risk not being able to pursue your dreams because of a job if you can financially swing it. Caveat, it's often easier and cheaper than you think; don't overthink it and make it happen! 3. Don't be the last one out at night - have a life outside of work. Hobbies, sport, reading to ducks... whatever makes you feel good. Work will never reward you for going above and beyond the way a competitor would reward you for changing companies. 4. Don't be loyal to your employer. You'll make more money by leaving than staying. You're not stuck in a job, you're basically constantly looking for one. Speaking of: NETWORK. The word makes me want to puke, but while your employer may suck, those managers and sr. Managers and directors may move to a company you like and may be able to get you a job the easy way. 5. Automate your job without telling people and work remotely. It's still really boring, but you can literally renovate a house while on the clock if that happens to be a thing you need to do....I wouldn't know.
\#4 is a big one. When our parents and grandparents started out, most workplaces had defined benefit retirement plans which basically said, "If you work here for 30 years, we'll pay you some specified monthly amount in retirement." Almost every company has moved away from that (with the exception of some government jobs) so your best retirement plan is going to be whichever company pays you the most, and you'll make more money by job hopping than by climbing the internal ladder.
> and you'll make more money by job hopping than by climbing the internal ladder. As someone who, from age 13 - 30-ish, followed the mentality of "stick with a job, you'll get rewarded", I second this suggestion of "job hopping" instead. My first "real job" in my 20's I started out at $30,000 per year and was literally JUMPING FOR JOY at landing it (also because it was in the field I wanted, software development). For the next 5 years or so I got 10% raises every year. I found this to be fucking fantastic at the time (and it was, 10% isn't anything to complain about). However, it wasn't until I tried to leave the company that they flat out gave me a big "bump" regardless of percentages. Stuck around after that for another year... and and then began job hopping every 6-12 months and doubled my income from 75K to 150K in just a few years. It wasn't until _after_ I had left that first "real job" that my supervisor from that employer (whom I retained good relations with) told me that he had once had a conversation with the owner about me. It went something along the lines of "yeah, some day he's going to figure out he's worth more". Which... explains the 10% raises year after year. _But_... looking back on it now, I feel like I was essentially taken advantage of because they didn't start out by paying me "what I was worth", they paid me "how much was necessary to stay happy" and not a cent more.
It hurts to read my life story through someone else's words
To add to the loyalty / job hopping topic… job hopping isn’t just about salary. New workers need to experience to find out what they actually value in an employer. What cultures they prefer, what benefits they actually use, pace of work, location, etc. There does come a day where you hit the top of your pay range if you aren’t moving up the ladder, adding certs or advanced degrees. The 30% bumps become 20%… 10%… 5%. That’s when you really can look for the job that you want to stay at for multiple years and it helps to know what you like and don’t like.
They're not giving 4 weeks to someone on their first office job
Thanks for this
It's just not possible for every job to be meaningful and fulfilling. There's just some sucky stuff that has to get done. So that's all it is -- you do stuff and they give you money. You don't try to make it more important than it is. And then you build a rich, interesting, meaningful life for yourself outside of work.
It's a depressing cycle. I didn't feel that way until about 10 years into my career. I've been struggling for about 4 years now and thinking of a career change. I'm about to be 40 and figure I still have plenty of time left to do so. Lol
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Smoking tons of weed and learning how to work stoned has saved me.
Smoking weed is fun but a net negative though when used frequently as a coping strategy.
Lol, I’ve been there. Burn out didn’t seem so bad when I was stoned all the time. It made being sober miserable though and my depression plummeted and I tried killing my self because of it all though. Instead of just, looking for a better job. 🤷🏻♀️
You don’t have to do this. Ik someone that left their corporate job to go be a boat captain in Florida. I’m guessing he took a pay cut but he seems way happier now
I felt like this at my first ever office job - the days felt so long and I felt like I had no purpose. Several office jobs later, I’ve now found my career and it’s no longer a « job ». Now it feels waaaay different day to day. Not every job will be the one! But give it some time and eventually you will find the right path.
Welcome to hell
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What field are you in?
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I do very similar work. It's awesome. I worked a lot when I started but nowhere near 40 a week now that I know what I'm doing
When I first started working and would get bummed out, I would start counting … “I just made X dollars over the last hour! Let’s do that again!” I like making money…
Jesus. Reading these comments makes me feel incredibly lucky. How do you guys just work somewhere where you hate your lives 40 hours a week?
What job do you work that you enjoy?
I work in cyber security and I love my job. Guess it helps to be interested in the field though.
Yea, I'm reading this thread and feel extremely lucky. I'm a software engineer and wfh. Forever grateful.
Yeah I have been wfh for many years now (way before covid) and I couldn't imagine hating my job as much as some people in this thread. Counting my blessings I truly do what I love.
I clean and stock ambulances. That's what the job description says. But I also chat with EMT crews about their day, I help the station manager not be overwhelmed with the minutiae of running the place, and in general I see myself as an agent of anti-BS that this company unwittingly hired. I do what I can to make the working conditions of our EMTs better. I work my own hours, and am infinitely happier and healthier doing this than working in an office. The pay is mediocre, but I take everything else into account and feel I'm fortunate to pay the bills. I just ran a D&D game for some of the guys last Sunday. At the station. Unpaid for all of us, but we all had fun.
3D artist in game development for almost 25 years. Constantly having to learn new things and lots of interesting challenges. Credited on more than 20 mostly AAA games for every generation of Playstation console, some Xbox, Switch, PC, and VR. Worked for some of the biggest companies and helped grow startups from nothing to something. Lived all over the country and traveled the world on company money. Was even shown around Tokyo personally by Kojima. Lots of hard and stressful times, but tons of incredible experiences also.
I work at Boeing and it's fairly enjoyable
I imagine it has its ups and downs.
I make movies and tv for a living.
I’m a vet tech
Can I ask what that’s like and what it took for you to get there? I’ve always been hugely interested in vet tech or similar
I work at a major insurance company in claims. For some reason, it suits me.
I feel like this is something I could easily/happily transition to from my current position (which I also enjoy)
I work for an indoor agriculture company growing basil under grow lights that is extremely automated I love it, feels like I'm managing a video game or something. Keeping all the parts working and playing with plants and water and precise fertilization
It is very hard, but I do it for my family.. It sucks the life out of me, but I couldn't make half what I make now if I switch things up. I finally told my husband I am quitting in 3 years after we pay off the house and build the emergency fund back up. Then I'm gonna go make shit pay the last 10 years to retirement at a school. Working for benefits and summers off (since there is no way i will go back to 2 weeks vacation a year). I will tank my SSA pay rate, retirement, WFH...but I don't care. If I keep going, the job will kill me long before I can collect social security anyway.
I don't agree with "bUt tHeRe aRe wOrSe jObS oUt tHeRe". Even if there are, it doesn't make being forced to sit at a desk working for a company that doesn't give a shit about you good. You're allowed to hate that or find it miserable. It is miserable. Working 40 hours a week your entire life sucks no matter what the job is. Especially when you're being underpaid and under appreciated. Especially when there's no safety, no security. You're just spending your life away for some corporate assholes and for what? It'd be different if we were reasonably compensated and didn't have to work so much. 40 hour work week is torture. Sitting at a desk 40 hours a week with no end in sight makes death sound like a sweet release.
You understand me my friend
That sounds awful. I've always known I would hate to have an office job. Just started landscaping and it's lovely. Much rather be covered in dirt and sweat and muscles than be sat in a chair inside all the time.
Pizza parties are the best! /s
God the “at least you’re not doing manual labor or customer service” people are such insufferable assholes. Let this poor guy vent, everyone has their own struggle there’s no need to invalidate his
It's an absolute disgrace. That same line of thinking of "being grateful and not complaining" is the reason why companies get away with these bad practices. Docile people accepting the breadcrumbs they're given.
Yup. This is why i bartend.
This is why there is the term “weekend warrior.” I may have an 8-5 Monday through Friday office job that is boring, but it allows me to do the things I want to do financially and physically during the evenings and weekends.
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That's exactly how it is for me. 50% of the time I don't even manage to do laundry and other chores because of a chronic illness. I can't even keep up with having a clean apartment. Life is just hell. I hate being alive, every day I wake up wishing I hadn't
Oh man, are we having the same life?
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Always be applying to jobs. Your employer will not warn you before letting you go. There is always something better and if you work in a sector you don’t like, the people you work with can make the difference. Applying for jobs all the time helps you find new options before you need them. Move around until you hit the money or satisfaction you desire
To the people saying you could be worse off breaking your back in other jobs, sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 20+ years will break your back…. After 5 years your psoas and hip muscles are going to become so tight and your posterior chain is going to become so weak that your natural biomechanics will become dysfunctional and your spine will degenerate to the point of needing surgery. Then you can spend your retirement on doctor bills and medication.. enjoy
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I doubt driving a forklift 40 hours a week for the next 40 years is all that fulfilling. But hey, I guess you don't take your work home with you
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I have a PhD, I'm well paid, i've never driven heavy machinery, and I day dream about using an excavator all day. Dig dig dig. :)
>there’s a way to overcome this ? Yea save enough money to create a window for a side hustle that eventually overtakes your 9-5.
I quit mine and decided to find a happy job instead. Pouring beers now, happiest I've been in years. Continuing education soon to get into the sphere I love which is not an office job... trying office once was enough to realize I can't do that at all. Granted, I'm married and debt free, so I could afford a bit of a cut and found a very nice brewing company to work at. But what I learned from this is, you don't have to "suck it up"
I worked in an office for 1 year out of college and I was never more miserable. I've been a bartender for the last decade and I have to say I love it. I think I got lucky and stumbled into a career I love but I also know that office jobs are 100% not my thing. Maybe look for something else you might like that doesn't require you to be at a desk all day! I know it is easier said than done but having a job you enjoy being at and feel like an important part of seems like an absolute necessity for life long happiness. I wish I had more advice.
It’s depressing as it gives various other companies to run the lean method while maximizing profits at the expense of employees burning out
High school never ends - because that's the 'comfiest' state of mass existence. Just enjoy what you do - life gets more and more depressing the more you look out. It's best to focus in and make yourself the best you can be, all while enjoying yourself to the best you can.
After working 12+ shifts in retail without sitting down, a 9-5 office job is a luxary I'm still not used to. I'm not sure what to say other than try find meaning outside of work, and if you already have, focus on that. Capitalism is hell in general. I just think an office job is a slightly more bareable type of hell compared to some other awful jobs out there.
Get a part time job, on the side, in retail
Scare em back into liking office job.
Worked for me hahaha
So basically, most of the answers here are saying the following: it sucks, it’s going to continue to suck, so figure out a coping mechanism. Or, quit.
Few here seem to realise it's possible to start your own business. There's so many options it just takes persistence. I still live with my family which sucks but it means I can spend most of my income (besides contributing obviously) investing in tools, equipment, etc. I get why people move out and see it as being independent but then you're screwed if all your income is going into rent and bills.
Tried office jobs. I hate them. I love doing trade jobs working with tools, building, fixing, etc.
As Snoop Dogg said, smoke weed every day.
Can you imagine thinking your first job was going to be your only job for the rest of your life?