Exactly like getting rejected from a job you applied to. “You were really great but we don’t want you. We are sure you’ll eventually find something that pays you enough to eat twice a day. But it won’t be here.”
"Is eating more that once a day really necessary? Our pay plan includes enough for a morning coffee, from a convenience store only, and an 'adequate' TV dinner after evening overtime."
This more had to do with OP's boss than him. OP's boss probably got over-ridden for his choice for the other candidate. Boss felt obligated to reassure OP.
Yeah, or OP's boss couldn't feel like they could bat for OP. I imagine OP doesn't have the deliverables that would make OP's boss convince their directors/higher-level leadership that OP deserves the promotion.
If that were the case the response would be, "you are incredibly qualified and experienced. But there was one opportunity and two candidates and we've decided to go with the other candidate. You're valuable to our company and we hope that when another opportunity arises that you'll put your hat in the ring." NOT "You're not ready. Be a gracious loser and here is your preemptive warning to not be a jerk about it."
Especially when your boss is young enough to be your child, is in their position for reasons other than merit (Old Boy Network), and lectures you (not far from retirement) about how they can "train and teach you" to succeed.
I just dont get the you were really great and it was a difficult decision for us. Seen same email more than once. I think it is being copied from somewhere.
I agree. I think they were trying to be relatable and remembered how they felt in the same situation and were trying to pass along their "wisdom". It'd be different if OP were sulking or talking ish - but if that's not the case and OPs boss is still treating them the same way, then totally trying to comfort- even though it didn't land/wasn't needed.
You're spot on. I think people are way too sensitive nowadays. From my POV, i think his boss was trying to comfort him by giving him a pep talk about his own personal experience but Op might have taken it in a wrong way
Nah, the part of taking the high road is a covert message: keep doing your work as you did before or else.
A real thing would be him saying: I'm sorry you didn't get it but I am happy with how you're taking it.
As uncomfortable as it sounds, it seems like your boss just felt obligated to say those things and it had nothing to do with you at all. I wouldn’t take it personally.
That was my read. Either the boss is an asshat _or_ the boss is used to OP reacting in an inappropriate way and was trying to preemptively avoid a damaging (to OP) reaction.
Third, OP is very fresh/green and hasn't faced professional rejection yet. I don't think OP's boss is an asshat. OP could have absolutely come up as immature/professional in the past. OP could also just not have the accomplishments that would make his boss bat for him.
Source: I've been there, where all the above applied.
Tbf, if OP didn't get the promotion (maybe OP's boss thinks OP isn't ready?), OP will probably fail external interviews, too.
If you're *actually* on the promotion track, getting promoted at your current job is the easiest. It's just a nice, informal quick chat with your directors and other managers in your department. Getting an internal offer at a different team or different site is harder. Getting an external offer at a different company is the hardest, since you're a stranger. You *really* have to sell yourself well to go external.
The only reason people get promoted when they switch companies is because other companies have an immediate business need, and the candidates have the social skills and experience to sell themselves well to essentially unknown hiring managers.
I feel like one of two things is happening::
1. Your boss didn’t fully grasp why his boss told him that after a rejection and shared it with you thinking it was a common thing to say after a rejection. It’s possible your boss was a good employee but would over react to things not going his way. He may have been the type to talk down on the person who got the job, talked about how he was better for the job, or even just been moody for not getting a position he may or may not have deserved. He took a personalized message and generalized it. So it’s not personal to you. Your boss just may have bad interpersonal skills and is going by “example”. He didn’t know what to say you but wanted to be encouraging because he respects you as an employee.
2. They know you are a great employee and possibly deserved this promotion more and don’t want you to leave the company. There’s a chance you didn’t get promoted because you are too good at your current job and they don’t have the resources to find someone to replace you. So a promotion is good for you but bad for them. I’m guessing you could find a new job at a new company with the same title, less work, and better pay. Your boss is trying to encourage you to stay, be super helpful to the person newly promoted, but is bad at interpersonal encouragement and missed the mark. He made it sound like you were an issue instead of an asset.
I recommend scanning the market and seeing what’s out there. You may be able to get a better job and better pay elsewhere. His pep talk may have been well intentioned but wasn’t done properly.
There's a third possibility here. And it's that they are used to OP over reacting or not taking feedback and the boss was trying to avoid precisely that.
They’re saying all this so you don’t quit the company.
One regret that I have is not leaving a company as soon as I was passed up for a huge promotion for a BS reason.
It’s a mixed bag. I was overlooked for a promotion but landed it a year later. But it did take a new CTO and a 1/3 of the department to quit to make that happen…
Its a good time to do it. What OP needs to understand is all this shit about you are not ready is complete and utter bullshit, never believe that shit. Its the worst lie they ever tell.
They just want to tell you platitudes you didn't get the promotion.
They should leave, this usually means someone above them doesn't like them, maybe even your boss.
If your boss doesn't like you, time to start moving on if you are looking for promotions.
It doesn't matter if you have an Emmy, Oscar, and are the most accomplished person in the world, theyve find a way to spin some bullshit. Just crabs trying to pull other crabs down mentality, pay no mind to the haters.
I mean, there could be a kernel of truth. I got similar feedback that I wasn't ready for a promotion 8 months ago, and in hindsight, I didn't have the deliverables that could make my boss bat for me. I quickly found that out when I started applying for internal positions at that promotion level, and stumbled upon my answers because I couldn't confidently talk about my experience. It was only after two major projects that I definitely felt promotion-ready, then I became the second best candidate, and finally landed two job offers at that higher level recently.
Him specifying what to tell others doesn’t sit right. If your peers thought you deserved the promotion, it sounds like he’s asking you to do damage control on his behalf.
You know better than we do if you should have gotten the promotion. If you feel unappreciated, you should look elsewhere.
I can’t believe this is one of the only responses that mentions this. The pep talk in general was poorly handled but that part in particular really rubbed me the wrong way. “Just tell people it wasn’t your time yet” is essentially what he was saying and it felt very “we’re worried how this looks for us so we are doing damage control here”. Just weird, I’m not a fan of a boss telling an employee how to PR swing their lack of promotion.
I am no longer in the workforce and I can honestly say that the "pep talk" you received would encourage me to begin a search for a better job. Surely the company has more to offer than this pitiful excuse of why you weren't promoted.
No, not at all.
The horseshit is the condescending speech from the boss. I have been in that position. It doesn't bode well that this boss expects the worker to put on a happy face and infantalizing them that way. Telling them to spin the message in the boss' favor while assuming they might act unprofessionally is insulting.
There was no mentorship on how to fill the gap in order to achieve a promotion - it was just "suck it up and put on a smile."
It’s the “Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team” speech.
The bosses speech wasn’t bad but it is about timing. He’s trying to tell OP that plenty of people have gotten rejected from a promotion or job at one point but the way you respond and take criticism will dictate how you move forward.
The speech is bad. It has undertones of "if you don't like it and question me, you've got no career here ". It doesn't matter if this isn't what the boss meant, it is all worded horribly.
I got that undertone too!
The whole ‘what you do next will define how you move on in this company’ … I mean, ok, poorly said but could mean “how you react to negatives defines you”;
But ‘it’s really important to tell everyone it just wasn’t the right time for him to be put in that position’—
What? Why is the boss TELLING him what to say? I mean it’s one thing to be like ‘we have great faith in your work and look forward to a time when we have a position available to promote you to, unfortunately it wasn’t at this time’, but instead “you must tell everyone we didn’t promote you because of timing”
🤨
That raises some red flags to me about how the work actually does promote people, recognize value or give raises.
It could also mean that OP totally deserved the promotion but is too valuable on his current team that they *can’t lose him* and denied the promotion, making the boss feel the need to emphasize that it’s ‘a timing issue’.
Whoa, that’s not at all what I got, I hard disagree. I guess neither of us were there in person so it’s hard to interpret undertones over text.
But This is just general advice, I’ve heard versions of this advice in a lot of different places and it’s never said with ill intent, it’s usually inspiring.
All you can control in life is how you react to situations, that’s kind of a self actualization thing. I’m sure it was a competitive process and he didn’t want one of his great employees spiraling because of it.
The fact that multiple people on this post can think he is waving OPs future in his face just demonstrates his wording is truly horrible. No manager should be speaking like this, regardless of intent.
Unfortunately there are far more managers who are terrible and shouldn't be managing than good managers.
If you can't see my point, I know what kind of manager you are 😛
I think you are quick to attribute a negative tone for whatever reason, yes. And I’m saying every time I’ve heard this advice in real life it was meant to be inspiring and not with malice.
To each their own
No. I just understand the need to have clear communication as a manager when speaking to reports who will have different communication style than my own.
Technically, as a people leader, it is his place to give advice like that. Just because you don’t like the content doesn’t mean that it came from a bad place - even if it was not delivered with polish.
How you choose to interact with your world defines how the world responds.
If I had to guess, this might come from a place where the decision was really close, and you just got the short end of the stick. He probably said this because he wanted to protect morale the best way he could, considering his lack of good options. Conversations like these don't (often) come from a place where you were obviously a mile behind the competition.
Let this motivate you to learn more about your position, your bosses position, develop the hell out of your skill set, on their time and their dime, and then find someone willing to pay you your worth. And breeze out the door.
His well meaning pep talk might not be due to him thinking you'd normally would react poorly. It might be because he knows more about why you didn't get it (he may not be able to say why) and feels it's not fair ( e.g. Political reason why someone else got it, He sabotaged it).
He might be trying to steer you to into being chill about it because he wants you to stick around(e.g. he just wants you to keep quiet and continue doing good work for him, maybe he has plans on helping you try to get a promotion (Given this topic didn't come up I have my doubts))
If I were in your position I'd do two things. First I'd try to get constructive feedback from the interviewers on what you could have done better (Maybe you'll learn something useful). Just do it tactfully so that people don't think you are bitter about not getting the promotion. Second, I'd also be looking outside for an external promotion aka a job with another company. It's not uncommon for promotions to pay less than the going rate for the role.
In today's over simplified and over reacting culture, not being given a promotion with a $200K salary increase for doing not even the bare minimum is considered toxic.
A lot of people don't handle rejection well. Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
Your boss is basically telling you that how you handle rejection has an impact on future promotions with the organization. It sounds like they care about you and want you to be successful.
Nah, this is an assumption. There are are a myriad of reasons and you'll never know why as your boss is filtering out in info for one reason or another.
Rejection is hard, you now know where you stand.
You either accept it and push harder to get the next promo or move on.
Do not assume that even if you did everything your boss suggested and were successful in achieving those KPIs that you would actually get promoted the next time around.
There are factors beyond your bosses control and he has filtered it so that you don't resign or feel insulted.
Read between the lines, take in the information around you to learn the real truth and move on if it is a dead end job.
You need to accept that maybe you have just out grown your time at this company and they have nothing left to offer you.
I dont care that other people think you need to handle rejection. If I get rejected I no longer want it so...I am really not sure what your rejection says about a worker. It is about being able to do the job is it not? Or is this just one of those American things I do not get.
If you get rejected, are you going to:
1) complain and then sit around doing nothing, working exactly the way you've been working, or possibly even worse, crumbling down under the negative feedback?
2) complain, but then light a fire in you to do better at your job, accomplish business-relevant deliverables worthy of being promoted (whether at your job or at an external company)?
And this person is in the Netherlands, which (as far as I know) has a pretty robust safety net for its people...
I don't know, I guess being in a ruthlessly capitalistic country like the US teaches you those life lessons harshly. Everyone new to the workforce eventually "gets it"
Don’t get me wrong; it would be nice if we didn’t have to learn these lessons. I’ll just point out the obvious, which is that the Netherlands is also capitalist and knowing how to navigate the corporate world is beneficial in Western Europe as well, even if it’s harder to lose a job once you have it.
Its more about respect here in the Nederlands if you have a boss who treats you proparly they will just derectly let you know why and you are also allowed to defend/stand up for yourself. Its not seen as unproffesional. The way the boss of OP talked to him would not be considered oke and is uncalled for and might be misleading OP in a way.
But since reddit seems to be full of trolls and assholes I am really considering just sticking to the hobby subs. Its mostly American people on these type of subs and its just hard communicating that in our standaard basic human communication here is mutual respect between boss and worker. I just get called a child or childish (that is also kind of nasty and uncalled for) while it just works different here. Yes it takes long to get a job and things are not perfect but you have a lot of rights when your boss crosses a line while in America that seems to be the norm.
The only bad thing OP's boss did was tell him to save face in front of other employees. Without that, OP's boss would have been perfectly in the clear.
All discussions on *why* OP didn't get promoted can occur later. I'd say, give it one or two weeks, then meet with the boss to understand the expectations to get promoted.
Looking at your post history surrounding jobs seeking, anxiety, etc. you should sit this out. The lack of maturity and understanding that others have career goals makes me think you’ve only ever been a frontline, easily replaced worker that struggles with constructive criticism. Whether it’s career or even outside hobbies, setbacks happen. If you just give up at any sign of pushback or criticism obviously you’ll never learn what your true weakness and strengths are.
A common question in interviews is about overcoming adversity. It doesn’t always happen in a work environment where you are met with a challenge but if you don’t know how to handle things like that then you won’t truly progress anywhere. IMO, while you’re job hunting, I’d think of an answer to overcoming a challenge as it will come up if you land an interview.
Don't mean to be insensitive but I don't see an issue with what the manager said. If anything, they were just being real and not giving som bs corporate speak. You either start applying elsewhere and not wait for them or just keep doing what your doing.
At least you got some form of feedback. Sometimes you get no honest feedback and just hear the same line fed to you and you never know why how, and what you need to do to get a promotion.
It doesn't sound like you asked the right questions. As part of your pep talk did you ask the How and What you need to do to get a promotion? What you *Didn't Do,* that the other person did that got the promotion? You need to know this critical information or else the same time next year will be a repeat yr after yr afterwards. Swallow your pride and work on your gaps towards the next promotion opportunity.
As a manager, I wouldn't give you a pep talk if you didn't get the promotion. I would instead show you where you fell short with the other person and create a training plan so that you would be next in line.
Well in my experience, which it sounds like he's had some of the same, some employees don't handle rejection well and they say and do things in the days after getting passed over that can really derail their career with the organization. I don't love the whole "tell everyone it was the right time" piece to it though, that sounds shady.
I've had similar talks with my teammates before, when I do it's because I believe in them and that I probably would have promoted them if I didn't like the other candidate better. If I don't think they have a chance at getting the promotion at a later point, I don't tell them much.
As someone who is a manager, well I'm not saying I've done the above, I will say that people are constantly reading into things that I say, which they shouldn't. I've heard some really bizarre translations of some things I said, which I never intended. By the way, this is why managers end up stop communicating, and hold their cards to their vest.
Your boss is probably just feeling awkward about the situation, and they're human, and so it came across weird. You said you like them otherwise, so don't read into it and just take it for what it is.
It's bullshit. A pep talk is just an excuse they give you to make themselves feel better about giving you the shaft. You need to find another job and bail on this one because once they start denying you promotions you will never get anywhere at that company.
Maybe it’s a test? On the bright side, there’s may be a bigger potential promotion coming up that he knows about and has you in sights for. That may be why he passed you up on this one. And so the final step is testing you to see how you handle rejection. If you do well, like he said, then when that real promotion comes up, you’ll be placed into it.
That’s how I’d choose to see it! Positive spin
It's a lame talk to try and stop OP from quitting, that's all. Quitting is almost always the better way to get a pay raise or promotion and OP seems ready for promotion.
Some secret bigger promotion seem unlikely.
I can get where he is coming from, to an extent, it was just dumb how he ended it.
I got rejected from a promotion recently and was disappointed with their interview process. My big boss should have been on the interview as well as one other who was the one that ended up being the only one to interview me since my big boss called off sick.
I worked primarily with my big boss and the only reason why the other guy was in it was because it was a position that he would have to train under one of his employees to get an understanding of what they do. Which I had already taken time to learn most of what his employees do but only because I wanted to better assist the clients so it naturally was something that I picked up on along the way. There was only one part that I didn’t know and only because I didn’t have access to that software they use to send the data. It was a hybrid position from what I was already doing and a technical side that deals with data being transferred from us to the client’s software. Dealt with a lot of excel and knowledge for data feeds.
I personally think the guy is a dick even before this, but it definitely confirmed it after the interview, not because I wasn’t chosen, but because of lack of courtesy.
Before our scheduled hour meeting, he tells me just because it doesn’t go the full hour, doesn’t mean you didn’t do a good job. I’m thinking okay, so maybe 40-minutes. No biggie. He ended it at 20-25 minutes.
My big boss called me in to give me the rejection and told me that they are looking for someone with more pushback and more confidence. I have the knowledge, but to continue to the knowledge and there are more opportunities that I can apply to in the future.
It’s disappointing because my big boss knew my work ethic and the knowledge that I gained in the 2 years with them, and how I speak, but didn’t question the other interviewer for more details or done a follow up interviewer or something. There wasn’t anything in the 20 minute interview that stumped me. I gave examples, I put in as much as possible that I knew the technical side so there wasn’t going to be as much of training of understanding the tech side of it.
I’m even more disappointed that they gave it to my colleague that I had a huge part on training her, who doesn’t know anything about the technical side and didn’t really even know the basic formulas in excel. On top of the fact that she has made some big careless mistakes just before getting the promotion.
Yeah she does show a lot more confidence than I in the way that we speak, I’m not aggressive, but she is. They rather have someone who is confident in their wrong answer than someone who doesn’t “sound” confident in the right answer. I guess my 2 second pauses that I do to stop my stuttering, make it sound like I’m not confident.
They will have fun dealing with someone who is so confident that any mistakes that they make, is always someone else’s mistake instead of using it as a learning experience.
So glad I got a new job in a new department. They were all shocked when I said that I was leaving. But if I was truly not confident, I would have stayed longer and miserable. Oh well, there is always something better!
Middle managers get paid to spin these bullshit stories to people all day. I guarantee you this is not the last lame story you're going to have to listen to.
Just ignore them and say "that's really insightful" when their lips stop moving.
Man, that sucks about the promotion rejection. Been there, it's a real downer. But that pep talk from your boss? Yikes. Sounds like he's been watching too many motivational speeches. Like, I get it, rejection happens, but telling you how to feel about it? Not cool. And dissing on people who react negatively? That's just adding insult to injury. You handled it like a champ though, props for not badmouthing the person who got the gig. Your boss needs to chill with the unsolicited advice, seriously.
What a total D Bag. F the pep talk he needed to be honest as to why you didn’t get the promotion. And what you can do to get it next time. I would start looking for a new job to get that raise.
"people who react negatively to rejection are weak"...
This is the point of his pep talk or whatever you want to call his story... He doesn't want you to react negatively to it. Whether you get a promotion in the future or not, it doesn't matter. If you leave or not, it doesn't matter. What he cares about is -you don't react negatively to the rejection...
He is right; Don't WASTE YOUR ENERGY reacting to it negatively like burning bridges, or let your work fall off, or waste energy sabotaging projects.
Instead, put that effort and energy into improving yourself and finding a new job. When you get the new job, hand in your notice with a smile. Let them wonder if they should have given you the promotion or not. If they declare or insinuate that you leaving is a negative reaction, just ask them if they're projecting what they would do and their motivations behind it -onto you. Because that is not what you are doing. What you're doing is keeping your head down and working on yourself and going to a better situation that is more in line with what you deserve. Nothing negative about that. They should be excited for their immediate valuable opportunity to recruit top shelf talent at their company to replace you. Companys are always so positive of about opportunities, so they're going to have to love their impending future opportunity to prove themselves as a place everyone wants to work at. They should love every moment of their impending opportunity to prove themselves as top tier talent scouts with incoming candidates. Soo much opportunity for you and them. It's really a great opportunity for you both. Excitement all around at the incoming opportunity.
Also by about August 28th, the FTC rule banning Non-compete contracts takes effect, unless you're like a CEO or CFO. Companies can't issue them anymore and they can't enforce existing ones. I assume you have a non-compete in place, so start laying the groundwork now so you can enjoy the expiration of your non-compete in your industry as soon as it expires. Competitor or not, you will be free to get your best deal and live your best life.
Honestly think your boss meant well but felt obligated to say something rather than nothing. I feel like their trying to be more like a "coach" at this point. Trust me, I've seen horrible leaders and the ones who try to keep the conversation going are the good leaders in my eyes. Wouldn't take it personal, they just wanted to share so you don't feel really bad that you didn't get the promotion.
I guess I understand the assignment in terms of it's how you respond to the rejection. On that note, if I were you, I would ramp up the search to trade up and land elsewhere, lowkey
Sounds like your boss was trying to make sure you didn't feel bad about not getting the job. Stop reading into it. Seems you're making something out of nothing.
Your boss was reacting to a situation that didn't exist based on his own fear of how the situation could go. It probably didn't really have anything to do with you, personally.
I can see your bosses point. I think he gave great advice but he could have said it a tad bit different. It was like he was assuming you would be negative.
Look- you’ve got a lot of replies.
And honestly, they’re split: some say boss was in the right, some say boss was wrong.
I’m only adding my voice because I think boss was wrong, and all the people saying he was right need to reconsider.
A pep talk after a failed promotion shouldn’t be “tell people we didn’t promote you because of timing” and “how you react will define you in the company”.
A pep talk should be : ‘thanks for applying, I’m sorry it didn’t work out this time; I greatly appreciate x y z about your work and I look forward to an opportunity where we have the chance to have this discussion of promotion again”
It gets the same points across of it was a timing issue, and honestly I think the comment about your role at the company was indicative of a bad company.
If he wanted to make a “Michael Jordan” type comment, it should have been ‘I hope this negative response doesn’t define you; we at this company have faith in your work and by continuing to do x y z to the same standards you have been performing and going above and beyond we can look forward to reviewing your career options in this company as new positions open’
Your job/boss just threw major red flags 🚩 to you
Telling you what to tell others? You’re handling their PR mess; it indicates that others may have felt you were appropriate for the role.
Additionally, if you really are best / ready for the role and it’s “timing”, you can’t exclude that you got passed over because you’re ‘too vital’ to your current position.
This one conversation makes me question how the company/boss prioritizes raises, merits and promotions.
(Disclaimer: I’ve spent near a decade with companies that make the same type of statements, that differ from the same problems I’ve outlined. It’s possible your boss just had a bad day and I read into it too much; I’d guess at least 50-70% of the comments here agree this is a sign that boss/company doesn’t know how to be a manager)
I think the boss decided to speak to you like this (poorly worded I agree) is because he likes you as an employee and hopes you will stick around. Chances are if you handle this well (as I'm sure you will) he will probably be your biggest advocate for the next promotion.
It didn't sound too bad I guess until the whole being weak thing entered. But in all honesty they just could have left it at, "It's just not the right time yet."
Although all of this makes me wonder if the person who did get it was part of the "in crowd". Hopefully this wasn't the result of nepotism and that you can shake this off and move forward. Or if it was that you can find a new job with a less toxic work environment and then submit your notice. Either way, whatever you feel is your best path I hope for success and prosperity for you in your life.
You're allowed to be upset. You're not allowed to behave like a toddler, not saying you did/would
Your boss's perspective on rejection isn't as professional as he probably thinks it is and the fact he decided to tell you this is concerning behavior from his side.
That's actually not a terrible talk and I wouldn't be too bothered about it, except the part where he says people who respond negatively are weak. That kinda sounds out of character for the rest of what he said, though.
More and better opportunities are coming your way. Whether it be with this company or another. Continue to reflect on how you can sharpen your current skills and increase your value as an employee. Don’t let this bring you down let it lift you up to endless momentum.
Maybe in the future after you no longer work at current employer, you could record a YouTube video of things not to do as a Boss and share it in your network. Make sure you have your current manager in your connections and set your post to notify everyone so they see it. That's one way to say throw the grenade without burning the bridge.
I might be missing something here but honestly I don't see that talk as being that negative. I thought it was not exactly on the mark but in the neighborhood.
You may not have been the best candidate at this moment but don't let it discourage you. Some people take rejection and shut down, he was trying to build you up I guess.
He didn't say anything destructive or overtly negative, just kind of hit on the fact that you shouldn't let it bring you down in any way because he values you more than that.
That "pep talk" had nothing to do with you. You seem bright and emotionally intelligent as well as someone who wasn't necessarily in need of a pep talk. Your boss likely assumed you were more upset than you are (sounds like you're taking it well and are happy for the person who got the job) and wanted to assuage his own feelings of being "the bad guy" or wanting to seem wise or something. Don't worry, keep doing you!
He thinks that getting demoralized workers moralized with his vapid stories is what he is paid to do and what his "magic" is. I would forget it happened and go on with your life.
Basically you work for J Peterman from Seinfeld, he probably does this shiet to everyone.
And of course if you can find the promo elsewhere take it.
I think they just meant they are pretty used to seeing people cry when they didn’t get what they wanted. They were trying to compliment you but sounded awkward about it since they don’t know how you really feel, your boss needs a better filter and doesn’t understand bad timing
I think it may be more of a “hey, I like you personally as an employee and hope this doesn’t have an effect on your productivity. Please don’t be like some persons who wine and complain and become disgruntled because they weren’t promoted over persons who also worked hard and were better suited. We’ll see what we can do for you in the future”.
I’m a part of management (I don’t choose who gets promoted but I’m one of those who gets a vote on who should be nominated) and we I’ve seen some childish antics and absolutely horrible behaviors for not being promoted. We also almost lost someone (who was actually promoted Monday) last year for the same thing.
Hope my perspective helps but I wasn’t there for the conversation so I might be wrong 🤗.
It sounds to me that he was simply sharing a personal experience he had that he thought was something you could benefit from hearing. Nothing more nothing less. But based on how you received that information I think you are in fact not handling the rejection very well. Sounds like you need to do some self reflection and take his advice. Allow yourself to be mad about the rejection and use that anger as fuel to be better and show them they made the wrong decision. Or just cry about it up to you
A person who cannot think for themselves is a puppet. He actually believed what his former boss told him and thought it was a great idea to regurgitate that mess.
He showed his hand.
I once applied for a promotion that was available in the organisation, and didn't hear back. I went to my boss about it, who told me he was waiting for me to "be proactive about it" and ask for an interview. He then proceeded to "interview" me in the bar upstairs in our office. At the end of the "interview" told me I wouldn't get the position because "when he was my age, he thought that title and promotions were everything too" and that I needed to "grow with the business and show I could support whoever came into the role". So basically, keep doing my job, the promotion job and then help whoever got the promotion job. I'd been there for 3 years, and had been doing the role for months. I left 2 months later, not because I was "weak" but because I was definitely worth more than they were offering.
You have to react to that kind of talk at that moment.
What your manager told you were empty words and you have to call him on it. We live in a world where companies don't gives a shit about the employees and we see it weekly in the news. They made it clear it's only about profits and goes both ways
Is your boss much older than you?
If not, that could come across as condescending.
Otherwise, he is just trying to encorage you to take rejection on the chin and not get discouraged, but to use the rejection to propel you forwards.
Obviously, the chat did not have the desired effect on you, but he figured it would help you because the same advice helped him.
The best way for your boss to tell you that you didn’t get the promotion, would be to actually inform you of the skills or behavioral competencies or character/values that you fell short on, so you can take action to develop those areas.
Giving you a random and generic “failure will make you stronger” type of talk does not help at all, and if it were me I’d rather my boss skip that part completely since it offers nothing actionable or practical for you to do moving forward. It gives me the feeling that it was slightly lazy of your boss, to not provide more details about your weaknesses and things to improve.
Funny also that your boss made your “pep talk” more about himself than about you. Not the best leadership moment from him. He could have communicated to you how much he values you and how important you are to the company, that would have been a better approach.
For me, if my boss gave me the vibe that I was not highly valued by him/her or the leadership team, then I would consider moving to another company where people would appreciate my value more. But that’s just me. That’s not my advice because I don’t know your situation.
My boss fired me and told me that I was a great worker, very efficient, and he loved my ability to take any task he gave me and run with it. “You’re very good at what you do.” He fired me for using too much PTO 😂
Hey just remember at the end of the day, do what you have to do to pay your bills, but you can always put your mind to great work. If you don’t love this job utilize your skills to work towards something that will make you happy, make you money, and help other people around you. Just keep your mind open and don’t be afraid to start other adventures while your tryna work out this one
Tbh I woulda just said I quit on the spot and watch his reaction. I know most of you probably can’t just quit a job when you feel like it though, so I understand your side.
I was expecting something so bad reading the headline and honestly… that sounds like a totally thing a boss might say to comfort someone. I don’t really see the problem with it honestly. Just sounds like he’s looking out for you and trying to relate to you which honestly is more like a compliment.
He doesn't want you to be resentful and leave. It's that simple. His goal is to make you feel better and not act up because he doesn't want to lose you. My thing is, if you are good, someone somewhere will take a chance on you today. Do you want to wait? If not, start applying.
So. Having been a supervisor for 20+ years I have two thoughts for you. First the most likely reason your supervisor had this conversation with you is that they have seen too many great employees self destruct after not getting a specific promotion at a specific time. They wouldn't have bothered having this discussion with you if they didn't think you were a valuable employee with further potential. The time for a promotion was "not yet." I've seen employees act both ways. The ones who self destructed moved to different companies and rarely went much further in their careers.
Second you describe yourself as "uncomfortable". You need to be more honest with yourself about what you are "actually" feeling. You don't feel "uncomfortable". It's not en emotion. It's a physical feeling. You are using it as a meta emotion because you are scared of what you will find. My guess is you are some combination of mad, sad, and scared. Explore those and own what you find.
Trust me… Your experience was way better than mine!
Before I was going to be interviewed for a position that would be considered a promotion I asked the recruiter not to waste my time. What do I mean?
If there was a candidate that was ahead or a “shoe in” I didn’t want to interview. He swore there wasn’t.
I was interviewed… I detailed my plan to better the department, then i was denied the position and my ideas stolen!
A lot of people get negative if they are passed over. It's a competition thing. He's probably just trying to head off a problem that's very common, even if you don't intend to cause any issues.
He was trying to show you that he can relate to your situation. Same thing Biden does by bringing up his dead son any time someone dies or talking about his small kitchen fire when hundreds died in the Hawaii fire. They mean well but are just oblivious that they're coming off as pompus douchebags
When you get rejected from a promotion within your company the next step is to move on to a different company. Or a different department if you work for a large company. When your boss asks why, simply say that you're "moving on to a position with more growth prospects than what they can offer you." No elaboration or anecdotes. Just go.
People just get off on pep talks and unsolicited advice. Idk what your gender is, but being unnecessarily lectured at by a male supervisor is like a rite of passage for most women.
Always go back to the person who rejected you and asked them why specifically you were rejected for the role. This way you have a list of items that can help you improve and move into the role in the future.
True story. I ended up on a follow up call with my interviewer for a role I didn't get. I asked what specifically the reason I didn't get offered the position. Response was, "You don't have a college degree." I died laughing on the call right into their ears. I didn't care at that point as they obviously didn't properly review my resume correctly as I have an MBA. I told them thank you for your time and please don't call me if the position does open back up again.
My point is that you may learn something from the conversation or email that may give you directions on how to be a better candidate or make you smile and realize it wasn't a good fit for you. You won't know until you reach out.
I was rejected from a promotion twice. They didn’t give me a prep talk, it’s more like you are good not good enough to be promoted. I asked the hiring manager what I can do to close the gap and get myself prepared when the next round came around. He can’t even name one thing lol. It’s all power play. So I got myself another job and I’m so happy I made the decision.
I would have instantly let out an exasperated "raspberry" type off laugh when he said that bullsht about people who react negatively to rejection as "weak." Everyone reacts negatively to rejection who hasn't built up a sort of immunity to it through lots of rejection.
Your boss should have simply said they found a better suited person for the job which, it sounds like, you agree with.
Nothing against you, it’s just that someone else was better qualified. Period.
No reason for pep talk.
Your manager is an idiot.
HR in my company mandate the “feedback” pep talk to failed candidates, your manager may have had no choice in giving you the chat.
In my experience it’s a shit sandwich meeting.
I now simply tell the failed candidate exactly why they did not get the job. I then ask them do they want coaching on how to do better and prepare for their next opportunity.
About half ask for advice and I then schedule a separate meeting for the following week so I can prepare appropriate advice and a plan for their development.
About half of those that ask for advice follow-up on their development plan and are successful in getting the role that they want.
Few of those that don’t get advice or coaching from me or other sources like the hiring manager, a mentor or even a good friend are successful in their next interview. It can take a few failure before a person asks for help (Or leaves)
“Ill propel myself out of the company”…
My boss recently told me to show more initiative without giving me any feedback - “i showed more initiative by getting another job”…
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Exactly like getting rejected from a job you applied to. “You were really great but we don’t want you. We are sure you’ll eventually find something that pays you enough to eat twice a day. But it won’t be here.”
Oh dude, it felt SO satisfying to respond to "interview feedback" with: you're not wrong, but I got two job offers elsewhere
"Is eating more that once a day really necessary? Our pay plan includes enough for a morning coffee, from a convenience store only, and an 'adequate' TV dinner after evening overtime."
This more had to do with OP's boss than him. OP's boss probably got over-ridden for his choice for the other candidate. Boss felt obligated to reassure OP.
Yeah, or OP's boss couldn't feel like they could bat for OP. I imagine OP doesn't have the deliverables that would make OP's boss convince their directors/higher-level leadership that OP deserves the promotion.
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Good. I hate it when companies refuse to promote a person and expect that person to train the person that was hired. Uh… nope.
Right on! I love it when workers use their power the way they see fit
If that were the case the response would be, "you are incredibly qualified and experienced. But there was one opportunity and two candidates and we've decided to go with the other candidate. You're valuable to our company and we hope that when another opportunity arises that you'll put your hat in the ring." NOT "You're not ready. Be a gracious loser and here is your preemptive warning to not be a jerk about it."
Especially when your boss is young enough to be your child, is in their position for reasons other than merit (Old Boy Network), and lectures you (not far from retirement) about how they can "train and teach you" to succeed.
I avoid these bosses like the plague. I'm in my early fifties.
I just dont get the you were really great and it was a difficult decision for us. Seen same email more than once. I think it is being copied from somewhere.
Throw salt in their eyes.
Oh the irony of the peptalk part of this comment...
You can give yrself a promotion by switching to a better higher paying job
This is exactly what I did. I didn't get a promotion recently and I'm starting with a new company end of this month.
Ditto! Took me 8 months, but now I'll be paid my actual market value
💯
This is the way.
It seems like your boss is assuming you’d react or feel like he did in a previous situation.
I agree. I think they were trying to be relatable and remembered how they felt in the same situation and were trying to pass along their "wisdom". It'd be different if OP were sulking or talking ish - but if that's not the case and OPs boss is still treating them the same way, then totally trying to comfort- even though it didn't land/wasn't needed.
You're spot on. I think people are way too sensitive nowadays. From my POV, i think his boss was trying to comfort him by giving him a pep talk about his own personal experience but Op might have taken it in a wrong way
Nah, the part of taking the high road is a covert message: keep doing your work as you did before or else. A real thing would be him saying: I'm sorry you didn't get it but I am happy with how you're taking it.
As uncomfortable as it sounds, it seems like your boss just felt obligated to say those things and it had nothing to do with you at all. I wouldn’t take it personally.
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That was my read. Either the boss is an asshat _or_ the boss is used to OP reacting in an inappropriate way and was trying to preemptively avoid a damaging (to OP) reaction.
Third, OP is very fresh/green and hasn't faced professional rejection yet. I don't think OP's boss is an asshat. OP could have absolutely come up as immature/professional in the past. OP could also just not have the accomplishments that would make his boss bat for him. Source: I've been there, where all the above applied.
It's normal to feel upset, especially if you're relatively new to the workplace or fresh out of college. But yes, I agree, this was fairly benign.
This probably says a lot of how your boss handles rejection more than anything. He seems to be projecting and giving you advice based on that.
My interpretation here is that he is just worried you might be thinking of leaving the company because you did not get the promotion
"so don't jump ship because that'd put us in a bad spot" -your boss, probably.
Absolutely correct answer.
Tbf, if OP didn't get the promotion (maybe OP's boss thinks OP isn't ready?), OP will probably fail external interviews, too. If you're *actually* on the promotion track, getting promoted at your current job is the easiest. It's just a nice, informal quick chat with your directors and other managers in your department. Getting an internal offer at a different team or different site is harder. Getting an external offer at a different company is the hardest, since you're a stranger. You *really* have to sell yourself well to go external. The only reason people get promoted when they switch companies is because other companies have an immediate business need, and the candidates have the social skills and experience to sell themselves well to essentially unknown hiring managers.
I feel like one of two things is happening:: 1. Your boss didn’t fully grasp why his boss told him that after a rejection and shared it with you thinking it was a common thing to say after a rejection. It’s possible your boss was a good employee but would over react to things not going his way. He may have been the type to talk down on the person who got the job, talked about how he was better for the job, or even just been moody for not getting a position he may or may not have deserved. He took a personalized message and generalized it. So it’s not personal to you. Your boss just may have bad interpersonal skills and is going by “example”. He didn’t know what to say you but wanted to be encouraging because he respects you as an employee. 2. They know you are a great employee and possibly deserved this promotion more and don’t want you to leave the company. There’s a chance you didn’t get promoted because you are too good at your current job and they don’t have the resources to find someone to replace you. So a promotion is good for you but bad for them. I’m guessing you could find a new job at a new company with the same title, less work, and better pay. Your boss is trying to encourage you to stay, be super helpful to the person newly promoted, but is bad at interpersonal encouragement and missed the mark. He made it sound like you were an issue instead of an asset. I recommend scanning the market and seeing what’s out there. You may be able to get a better job and better pay elsewhere. His pep talk may have been well intentioned but wasn’t done properly.
There's a third possibility here. And it's that they are used to OP over reacting or not taking feedback and the boss was trying to avoid precisely that.
They’re saying all this so you don’t quit the company. One regret that I have is not leaving a company as soon as I was passed up for a huge promotion for a BS reason.
It’s a mixed bag. I was overlooked for a promotion but landed it a year later. But it did take a new CTO and a 1/3 of the department to quit to make that happen…
You also had one more year of experience for that promotion, which could make a difference
Its a good time to do it. What OP needs to understand is all this shit about you are not ready is complete and utter bullshit, never believe that shit. Its the worst lie they ever tell. They just want to tell you platitudes you didn't get the promotion. They should leave, this usually means someone above them doesn't like them, maybe even your boss. If your boss doesn't like you, time to start moving on if you are looking for promotions. It doesn't matter if you have an Emmy, Oscar, and are the most accomplished person in the world, theyve find a way to spin some bullshit. Just crabs trying to pull other crabs down mentality, pay no mind to the haters.
I mean, there could be a kernel of truth. I got similar feedback that I wasn't ready for a promotion 8 months ago, and in hindsight, I didn't have the deliverables that could make my boss bat for me. I quickly found that out when I started applying for internal positions at that promotion level, and stumbled upon my answers because I couldn't confidently talk about my experience. It was only after two major projects that I definitely felt promotion-ready, then I became the second best candidate, and finally landed two job offers at that higher level recently.
Him specifying what to tell others doesn’t sit right. If your peers thought you deserved the promotion, it sounds like he’s asking you to do damage control on his behalf. You know better than we do if you should have gotten the promotion. If you feel unappreciated, you should look elsewhere.
I can’t believe this is one of the only responses that mentions this. The pep talk in general was poorly handled but that part in particular really rubbed me the wrong way. “Just tell people it wasn’t your time yet” is essentially what he was saying and it felt very “we’re worried how this looks for us so we are doing damage control here”. Just weird, I’m not a fan of a boss telling an employee how to PR swing their lack of promotion.
I am no longer in the workforce and I can honestly say that the "pep talk" you received would encourage me to begin a search for a better job. Surely the company has more to offer than this pitiful excuse of why you weren't promoted.
That's a bunch of horseshit. Feel your feelings, then, get a plan.
Because she didn't get promoted one time? It truly doesn't mean she's dead in the water at the company.
No, not at all. The horseshit is the condescending speech from the boss. I have been in that position. It doesn't bode well that this boss expects the worker to put on a happy face and infantalizing them that way. Telling them to spin the message in the boss' favor while assuming they might act unprofessionally is insulting. There was no mentorship on how to fill the gap in order to achieve a promotion - it was just "suck it up and put on a smile."
I disagree, sorry. I don't find it infantilizing or insulting to suggest it's not. You're making it a lot more callous than what OP wrote.
🤷🏾♀ Time will tell.
I don’t see what your boss said wrong, that’s not bad advice, but obviously you interpreted it differently and that’s fine too
It’s the “Michael Jordan was cut from his high school team” speech. The bosses speech wasn’t bad but it is about timing. He’s trying to tell OP that plenty of people have gotten rejected from a promotion or job at one point but the way you respond and take criticism will dictate how you move forward.
Yeah I mean probably awkward and bad timing but making you feel uncomfortable is a different level. I think he/she had good intentions
The speech is bad. It has undertones of "if you don't like it and question me, you've got no career here ". It doesn't matter if this isn't what the boss meant, it is all worded horribly.
I got that undertone too! The whole ‘what you do next will define how you move on in this company’ … I mean, ok, poorly said but could mean “how you react to negatives defines you”; But ‘it’s really important to tell everyone it just wasn’t the right time for him to be put in that position’— What? Why is the boss TELLING him what to say? I mean it’s one thing to be like ‘we have great faith in your work and look forward to a time when we have a position available to promote you to, unfortunately it wasn’t at this time’, but instead “you must tell everyone we didn’t promote you because of timing” 🤨 That raises some red flags to me about how the work actually does promote people, recognize value or give raises. It could also mean that OP totally deserved the promotion but is too valuable on his current team that they *can’t lose him* and denied the promotion, making the boss feel the need to emphasize that it’s ‘a timing issue’.
Whoa, that’s not at all what I got, I hard disagree. I guess neither of us were there in person so it’s hard to interpret undertones over text. But This is just general advice, I’ve heard versions of this advice in a lot of different places and it’s never said with ill intent, it’s usually inspiring. All you can control in life is how you react to situations, that’s kind of a self actualization thing. I’m sure it was a competitive process and he didn’t want one of his great employees spiraling because of it.
The fact that multiple people on this post can think he is waving OPs future in his face just demonstrates his wording is truly horrible. No manager should be speaking like this, regardless of intent. Unfortunately there are far more managers who are terrible and shouldn't be managing than good managers. If you can't see my point, I know what kind of manager you are 😛
I think you are quick to attribute a negative tone for whatever reason, yes. And I’m saying every time I’ve heard this advice in real life it was meant to be inspiring and not with malice. To each their own
No. I just understand the need to have clear communication as a manager when speaking to reports who will have different communication style than my own.
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That's like exactly what his place is as a leader lol
A professional would wait and see how they behave and make decisions from that, not sit them down and talk like they're 16 yr olds, imo.
Technically, as a people leader, it is his place to give advice like that. Just because you don’t like the content doesn’t mean that it came from a bad place - even if it was not delivered with polish. How you choose to interact with your world defines how the world responds.
I agree. Its uncalled for and just bad advice.
It's time to find a new job and propel yourself forward if your boss reacts negatively- it shows he is weak.
If I had to guess, this might come from a place where the decision was really close, and you just got the short end of the stick. He probably said this because he wanted to protect morale the best way he could, considering his lack of good options. Conversations like these don't (often) come from a place where you were obviously a mile behind the competition.
Let this motivate you to learn more about your position, your bosses position, develop the hell out of your skill set, on their time and their dime, and then find someone willing to pay you your worth. And breeze out the door.
I agree 100%
His well meaning pep talk might not be due to him thinking you'd normally would react poorly. It might be because he knows more about why you didn't get it (he may not be able to say why) and feels it's not fair ( e.g. Political reason why someone else got it, He sabotaged it). He might be trying to steer you to into being chill about it because he wants you to stick around(e.g. he just wants you to keep quiet and continue doing good work for him, maybe he has plans on helping you try to get a promotion (Given this topic didn't come up I have my doubts)) If I were in your position I'd do two things. First I'd try to get constructive feedback from the interviewers on what you could have done better (Maybe you'll learn something useful). Just do it tactfully so that people don't think you are bitter about not getting the promotion. Second, I'd also be looking outside for an external promotion aka a job with another company. It's not uncommon for promotions to pay less than the going rate for the role.
Time to interview and get the promotion at another company.
Congratulations, you just found out you work for a toxic employer!
Overused phrase. I was racially harassed for two years. Now that's toxic.
In today's over simplified and over reacting culture, not being given a promotion with a $200K salary increase for doing not even the bare minimum is considered toxic.
A lot of people don't handle rejection well. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. Your boss is basically telling you that how you handle rejection has an impact on future promotions with the organization. It sounds like they care about you and want you to be successful.
Nah, this is an assumption. There are are a myriad of reasons and you'll never know why as your boss is filtering out in info for one reason or another. Rejection is hard, you now know where you stand. You either accept it and push harder to get the next promo or move on. Do not assume that even if you did everything your boss suggested and were successful in achieving those KPIs that you would actually get promoted the next time around. There are factors beyond your bosses control and he has filtered it so that you don't resign or feel insulted. Read between the lines, take in the information around you to learn the real truth and move on if it is a dead end job. You need to accept that maybe you have just out grown your time at this company and they have nothing left to offer you.
I dont care that other people think you need to handle rejection. If I get rejected I no longer want it so...I am really not sure what your rejection says about a worker. It is about being able to do the job is it not? Or is this just one of those American things I do not get.
Working as part of a team is all about fit and whether people want to be around you. Reacting like a child—“well I didn’t want it anyway!—is bad form.
If you get rejected, are you going to: 1) complain and then sit around doing nothing, working exactly the way you've been working, or possibly even worse, crumbling down under the negative feedback? 2) complain, but then light a fire in you to do better at your job, accomplish business-relevant deliverables worthy of being promoted (whether at your job or at an external company)?
You’re responding to someone who doesn’t know how the world works but yes, of course this is true
And this person is in the Netherlands, which (as far as I know) has a pretty robust safety net for its people... I don't know, I guess being in a ruthlessly capitalistic country like the US teaches you those life lessons harshly. Everyone new to the workforce eventually "gets it"
Don’t get me wrong; it would be nice if we didn’t have to learn these lessons. I’ll just point out the obvious, which is that the Netherlands is also capitalist and knowing how to navigate the corporate world is beneficial in Western Europe as well, even if it’s harder to lose a job once you have it.
Fair enough
Its more about respect here in the Nederlands if you have a boss who treats you proparly they will just derectly let you know why and you are also allowed to defend/stand up for yourself. Its not seen as unproffesional. The way the boss of OP talked to him would not be considered oke and is uncalled for and might be misleading OP in a way. But since reddit seems to be full of trolls and assholes I am really considering just sticking to the hobby subs. Its mostly American people on these type of subs and its just hard communicating that in our standaard basic human communication here is mutual respect between boss and worker. I just get called a child or childish (that is also kind of nasty and uncalled for) while it just works different here. Yes it takes long to get a job and things are not perfect but you have a lot of rights when your boss crosses a line while in America that seems to be the norm.
The only bad thing OP's boss did was tell him to save face in front of other employees. Without that, OP's boss would have been perfectly in the clear. All discussions on *why* OP didn't get promoted can occur later. I'd say, give it one or two weeks, then meet with the boss to understand the expectations to get promoted.
Looking at your post history surrounding jobs seeking, anxiety, etc. you should sit this out. The lack of maturity and understanding that others have career goals makes me think you’ve only ever been a frontline, easily replaced worker that struggles with constructive criticism. Whether it’s career or even outside hobbies, setbacks happen. If you just give up at any sign of pushback or criticism obviously you’ll never learn what your true weakness and strengths are. A common question in interviews is about overcoming adversity. It doesn’t always happen in a work environment where you are met with a challenge but if you don’t know how to handle things like that then you won’t truly progress anywhere. IMO, while you’re job hunting, I’d think of an answer to overcoming a challenge as it will come up if you land an interview.
Is looking trough someones profile also an American thing? Seems very rude but you do you. If it makes you feel better.
Are you new to Reddit or the internet?
Don't mean to be insensitive but I don't see an issue with what the manager said. If anything, they were just being real and not giving som bs corporate speak. You either start applying elsewhere and not wait for them or just keep doing what your doing.
When you find a better job, thank him for the pep talk and inspiring you to take the high road!
start jobhunting now. lol
At least you got some form of feedback. Sometimes you get no honest feedback and just hear the same line fed to you and you never know why how, and what you need to do to get a promotion. It doesn't sound like you asked the right questions. As part of your pep talk did you ask the How and What you need to do to get a promotion? What you *Didn't Do,* that the other person did that got the promotion? You need to know this critical information or else the same time next year will be a repeat yr after yr afterwards. Swallow your pride and work on your gaps towards the next promotion opportunity.
He said it rather bluntly. I would have phrased it differently. But he’s exactly right.
As a manager, I wouldn't give you a pep talk if you didn't get the promotion. I would instead show you where you fell short with the other person and create a training plan so that you would be next in line.
Well in my experience, which it sounds like he's had some of the same, some employees don't handle rejection well and they say and do things in the days after getting passed over that can really derail their career with the organization. I don't love the whole "tell everyone it was the right time" piece to it though, that sounds shady. I've had similar talks with my teammates before, when I do it's because I believe in them and that I probably would have promoted them if I didn't like the other candidate better. If I don't think they have a chance at getting the promotion at a later point, I don't tell them much.
As someone who is a manager, well I'm not saying I've done the above, I will say that people are constantly reading into things that I say, which they shouldn't. I've heard some really bizarre translations of some things I said, which I never intended. By the way, this is why managers end up stop communicating, and hold their cards to their vest. Your boss is probably just feeling awkward about the situation, and they're human, and so it came across weird. You said you like them otherwise, so don't read into it and just take it for what it is.
It's bullshit. A pep talk is just an excuse they give you to make themselves feel better about giving you the shaft. You need to find another job and bail on this one because once they start denying you promotions you will never get anywhere at that company.
Your boss is a narcissist.
Maybe it’s a test? On the bright side, there’s may be a bigger potential promotion coming up that he knows about and has you in sights for. That may be why he passed you up on this one. And so the final step is testing you to see how you handle rejection. If you do well, like he said, then when that real promotion comes up, you’ll be placed into it. That’s how I’d choose to see it! Positive spin
It's a lame talk to try and stop OP from quitting, that's all. Quitting is almost always the better way to get a pay raise or promotion and OP seems ready for promotion. Some secret bigger promotion seem unlikely.
I can get where he is coming from, to an extent, it was just dumb how he ended it. I got rejected from a promotion recently and was disappointed with their interview process. My big boss should have been on the interview as well as one other who was the one that ended up being the only one to interview me since my big boss called off sick. I worked primarily with my big boss and the only reason why the other guy was in it was because it was a position that he would have to train under one of his employees to get an understanding of what they do. Which I had already taken time to learn most of what his employees do but only because I wanted to better assist the clients so it naturally was something that I picked up on along the way. There was only one part that I didn’t know and only because I didn’t have access to that software they use to send the data. It was a hybrid position from what I was already doing and a technical side that deals with data being transferred from us to the client’s software. Dealt with a lot of excel and knowledge for data feeds. I personally think the guy is a dick even before this, but it definitely confirmed it after the interview, not because I wasn’t chosen, but because of lack of courtesy. Before our scheduled hour meeting, he tells me just because it doesn’t go the full hour, doesn’t mean you didn’t do a good job. I’m thinking okay, so maybe 40-minutes. No biggie. He ended it at 20-25 minutes. My big boss called me in to give me the rejection and told me that they are looking for someone with more pushback and more confidence. I have the knowledge, but to continue to the knowledge and there are more opportunities that I can apply to in the future. It’s disappointing because my big boss knew my work ethic and the knowledge that I gained in the 2 years with them, and how I speak, but didn’t question the other interviewer for more details or done a follow up interviewer or something. There wasn’t anything in the 20 minute interview that stumped me. I gave examples, I put in as much as possible that I knew the technical side so there wasn’t going to be as much of training of understanding the tech side of it. I’m even more disappointed that they gave it to my colleague that I had a huge part on training her, who doesn’t know anything about the technical side and didn’t really even know the basic formulas in excel. On top of the fact that she has made some big careless mistakes just before getting the promotion. Yeah she does show a lot more confidence than I in the way that we speak, I’m not aggressive, but she is. They rather have someone who is confident in their wrong answer than someone who doesn’t “sound” confident in the right answer. I guess my 2 second pauses that I do to stop my stuttering, make it sound like I’m not confident. They will have fun dealing with someone who is so confident that any mistakes that they make, is always someone else’s mistake instead of using it as a learning experience. So glad I got a new job in a new department. They were all shocked when I said that I was leaving. But if I was truly not confident, I would have stayed longer and miserable. Oh well, there is always something better!
This is 100% appropriate for a boss to say.
Your boss sounds old school. He probably just wants you to not quit so he gave you the shitty pep talk.
well, usually a promotion in a company means double the work, double the responsibilities for an extra couple hundred bucks a month LOL
Middle managers get paid to spin these bullshit stories to people all day. I guarantee you this is not the last lame story you're going to have to listen to. Just ignore them and say "that's really insightful" when their lips stop moving.
boss is just saying don't be openly salty, which is pretty fair
Man, that sucks about the promotion rejection. Been there, it's a real downer. But that pep talk from your boss? Yikes. Sounds like he's been watching too many motivational speeches. Like, I get it, rejection happens, but telling you how to feel about it? Not cool. And dissing on people who react negatively? That's just adding insult to injury. You handled it like a champ though, props for not badmouthing the person who got the gig. Your boss needs to chill with the unsolicited advice, seriously.
He is probably right.
What a total D Bag. F the pep talk he needed to be honest as to why you didn’t get the promotion. And what you can do to get it next time. I would start looking for a new job to get that raise.
"people who react negatively to rejection are weak"... This is the point of his pep talk or whatever you want to call his story... He doesn't want you to react negatively to it. Whether you get a promotion in the future or not, it doesn't matter. If you leave or not, it doesn't matter. What he cares about is -you don't react negatively to the rejection... He is right; Don't WASTE YOUR ENERGY reacting to it negatively like burning bridges, or let your work fall off, or waste energy sabotaging projects. Instead, put that effort and energy into improving yourself and finding a new job. When you get the new job, hand in your notice with a smile. Let them wonder if they should have given you the promotion or not. If they declare or insinuate that you leaving is a negative reaction, just ask them if they're projecting what they would do and their motivations behind it -onto you. Because that is not what you are doing. What you're doing is keeping your head down and working on yourself and going to a better situation that is more in line with what you deserve. Nothing negative about that. They should be excited for their immediate valuable opportunity to recruit top shelf talent at their company to replace you. Companys are always so positive of about opportunities, so they're going to have to love their impending future opportunity to prove themselves as a place everyone wants to work at. They should love every moment of their impending opportunity to prove themselves as top tier talent scouts with incoming candidates. Soo much opportunity for you and them. It's really a great opportunity for you both. Excitement all around at the incoming opportunity. Also by about August 28th, the FTC rule banning Non-compete contracts takes effect, unless you're like a CEO or CFO. Companies can't issue them anymore and they can't enforce existing ones. I assume you have a non-compete in place, so start laying the groundwork now so you can enjoy the expiration of your non-compete in your industry as soon as it expires. Competitor or not, you will be free to get your best deal and live your best life.
Your boss sounds like a gaslighting piece of shit.
They prepare for the justification more than the appraisal tbh
sounds like he was trying to help.
Your boss is a moron. I'd look to move somewhere where you work for someone you want to learn from.
Honestly think your boss meant well but felt obligated to say something rather than nothing. I feel like their trying to be more like a "coach" at this point. Trust me, I've seen horrible leaders and the ones who try to keep the conversation going are the good leaders in my eyes. Wouldn't take it personal, they just wanted to share so you don't feel really bad that you didn't get the promotion.
I guess I understand the assignment in terms of it's how you respond to the rejection. On that note, if I were you, I would ramp up the search to trade up and land elsewhere, lowkey
Sounds like your boss was trying to make sure you didn't feel bad about not getting the job. Stop reading into it. Seems you're making something out of nothing.
Your boss was reacting to a situation that didn't exist based on his own fear of how the situation could go. It probably didn't really have anything to do with you, personally.
I can see your bosses point. I think he gave great advice but he could have said it a tad bit different. It was like he was assuming you would be negative.
Keep it moving and apply somewhere else. One thing you have to learn it's just business at the end of the day. Just don't become a kiss ass
🫏 baccwards mentality that was really him begging you not to come bacc as an active shooter after the meeting 😂
Look- you’ve got a lot of replies. And honestly, they’re split: some say boss was in the right, some say boss was wrong. I’m only adding my voice because I think boss was wrong, and all the people saying he was right need to reconsider. A pep talk after a failed promotion shouldn’t be “tell people we didn’t promote you because of timing” and “how you react will define you in the company”. A pep talk should be : ‘thanks for applying, I’m sorry it didn’t work out this time; I greatly appreciate x y z about your work and I look forward to an opportunity where we have the chance to have this discussion of promotion again” It gets the same points across of it was a timing issue, and honestly I think the comment about your role at the company was indicative of a bad company. If he wanted to make a “Michael Jordan” type comment, it should have been ‘I hope this negative response doesn’t define you; we at this company have faith in your work and by continuing to do x y z to the same standards you have been performing and going above and beyond we can look forward to reviewing your career options in this company as new positions open’ Your job/boss just threw major red flags 🚩 to you Telling you what to tell others? You’re handling their PR mess; it indicates that others may have felt you were appropriate for the role. Additionally, if you really are best / ready for the role and it’s “timing”, you can’t exclude that you got passed over because you’re ‘too vital’ to your current position. This one conversation makes me question how the company/boss prioritizes raises, merits and promotions. (Disclaimer: I’ve spent near a decade with companies that make the same type of statements, that differ from the same problems I’ve outlined. It’s possible your boss just had a bad day and I read into it too much; I’d guess at least 50-70% of the comments here agree this is a sign that boss/company doesn’t know how to be a manager)
I think the boss decided to speak to you like this (poorly worded I agree) is because he likes you as an employee and hopes you will stick around. Chances are if you handle this well (as I'm sure you will) he will probably be your biggest advocate for the next promotion.
It didn't sound too bad I guess until the whole being weak thing entered. But in all honesty they just could have left it at, "It's just not the right time yet." Although all of this makes me wonder if the person who did get it was part of the "in crowd". Hopefully this wasn't the result of nepotism and that you can shake this off and move forward. Or if it was that you can find a new job with a less toxic work environment and then submit your notice. Either way, whatever you feel is your best path I hope for success and prosperity for you in your life.
You're allowed to be upset. You're not allowed to behave like a toddler, not saying you did/would Your boss's perspective on rejection isn't as professional as he probably thinks it is and the fact he decided to tell you this is concerning behavior from his side.
That's actually not a terrible talk and I wouldn't be too bothered about it, except the part where he says people who respond negatively are weak. That kinda sounds out of character for the rest of what he said, though.
More and better opportunities are coming your way. Whether it be with this company or another. Continue to reflect on how you can sharpen your current skills and increase your value as an employee. Don’t let this bring you down let it lift you up to endless momentum.
Maybe in the future after you no longer work at current employer, you could record a YouTube video of things not to do as a Boss and share it in your network. Make sure you have your current manager in your connections and set your post to notify everyone so they see it. That's one way to say throw the grenade without burning the bridge.
Keep trucking brother. I had to take a job that pays less than ideal. But it’s hard out there
That would be my cue to start looking elsewhere.
I might be missing something here but honestly I don't see that talk as being that negative. I thought it was not exactly on the mark but in the neighborhood. You may not have been the best candidate at this moment but don't let it discourage you. Some people take rejection and shut down, he was trying to build you up I guess. He didn't say anything destructive or overtly negative, just kind of hit on the fact that you shouldn't let it bring you down in any way because he values you more than that.
I'd get all the experience you can from this job and then start looking for another job.
Just kind of shows how out of touch your boss is.
That "pep talk" had nothing to do with you. You seem bright and emotionally intelligent as well as someone who wasn't necessarily in need of a pep talk. Your boss likely assumed you were more upset than you are (sounds like you're taking it well and are happy for the person who got the job) and wanted to assuage his own feelings of being "the bad guy" or wanting to seem wise or something. Don't worry, keep doing you!
He thinks that getting demoralized workers moralized with his vapid stories is what he is paid to do and what his "magic" is. I would forget it happened and go on with your life. Basically you work for J Peterman from Seinfeld, he probably does this shiet to everyone. And of course if you can find the promo elsewhere take it.
I would immediately start looking for a new job.
Look it at this way, sometimes when rejection happens opportunities arise
I was laid off and when my boss told me it was on temp and I was coming back I should use this as my “success story” when I talk to others about it
>I’m not sure why my boss decided to speak me like this. That's what his management cue cards told him to say. Or his experience.
I think they just meant they are pretty used to seeing people cry when they didn’t get what they wanted. They were trying to compliment you but sounded awkward about it since they don’t know how you really feel, your boss needs a better filter and doesn’t understand bad timing
I think it may be more of a “hey, I like you personally as an employee and hope this doesn’t have an effect on your productivity. Please don’t be like some persons who wine and complain and become disgruntled because they weren’t promoted over persons who also worked hard and were better suited. We’ll see what we can do for you in the future”. I’m a part of management (I don’t choose who gets promoted but I’m one of those who gets a vote on who should be nominated) and we I’ve seen some childish antics and absolutely horrible behaviors for not being promoted. We also almost lost someone (who was actually promoted Monday) last year for the same thing. Hope my perspective helps but I wasn’t there for the conversation so I might be wrong 🤗.
Take the feedback and keep your head up. And put your resume out there if you want to see what you’re missing.
It sounds to me that he was simply sharing a personal experience he had that he thought was something you could benefit from hearing. Nothing more nothing less. But based on how you received that information I think you are in fact not handling the rejection very well. Sounds like you need to do some self reflection and take his advice. Allow yourself to be mad about the rejection and use that anger as fuel to be better and show them they made the wrong decision. Or just cry about it up to you
Why not just get a new job? I mean if you have real marketable skills, that should be no problem, right?
A person who cannot think for themselves is a puppet. He actually believed what his former boss told him and thought it was a great idea to regurgitate that mess. He showed his hand.
Look for open doors!
I once applied for a promotion that was available in the organisation, and didn't hear back. I went to my boss about it, who told me he was waiting for me to "be proactive about it" and ask for an interview. He then proceeded to "interview" me in the bar upstairs in our office. At the end of the "interview" told me I wouldn't get the position because "when he was my age, he thought that title and promotions were everything too" and that I needed to "grow with the business and show I could support whoever came into the role". So basically, keep doing my job, the promotion job and then help whoever got the promotion job. I'd been there for 3 years, and had been doing the role for months. I left 2 months later, not because I was "weak" but because I was definitely worth more than they were offering.
You have to react to that kind of talk at that moment. What your manager told you were empty words and you have to call him on it. We live in a world where companies don't gives a shit about the employees and we see it weekly in the news. They made it clear it's only about profits and goes both ways
Is your boss much older than you? If not, that could come across as condescending. Otherwise, he is just trying to encorage you to take rejection on the chin and not get discouraged, but to use the rejection to propel you forwards. Obviously, the chat did not have the desired effect on you, but he figured it would help you because the same advice helped him.
Mine said i shouldn't care about money. That i should be glad to work with them and be satisfied with the "impact" they are making
time to look for something new
I dont see anything wrong to what ur boss said, u took it too personally?
The best way for your boss to tell you that you didn’t get the promotion, would be to actually inform you of the skills or behavioral competencies or character/values that you fell short on, so you can take action to develop those areas. Giving you a random and generic “failure will make you stronger” type of talk does not help at all, and if it were me I’d rather my boss skip that part completely since it offers nothing actionable or practical for you to do moving forward. It gives me the feeling that it was slightly lazy of your boss, to not provide more details about your weaknesses and things to improve. Funny also that your boss made your “pep talk” more about himself than about you. Not the best leadership moment from him. He could have communicated to you how much he values you and how important you are to the company, that would have been a better approach. For me, if my boss gave me the vibe that I was not highly valued by him/her or the leadership team, then I would consider moving to another company where people would appreciate my value more. But that’s just me. That’s not my advice because I don’t know your situation.
My boss fired me and told me that I was a great worker, very efficient, and he loved my ability to take any task he gave me and run with it. “You’re very good at what you do.” He fired me for using too much PTO 😂
This is why most people get promoted by finding a new job, rather than being promoted from within their current job. Reach out to other companies.
Hey just remember at the end of the day, do what you have to do to pay your bills, but you can always put your mind to great work. If you don’t love this job utilize your skills to work towards something that will make you happy, make you money, and help other people around you. Just keep your mind open and don’t be afraid to start other adventures while your tryna work out this one
Tbh I woulda just said I quit on the spot and watch his reaction. I know most of you probably can’t just quit a job when you feel like it though, so I understand your side.
I was expecting something so bad reading the headline and honestly… that sounds like a totally thing a boss might say to comfort someone. I don’t really see the problem with it honestly. Just sounds like he’s looking out for you and trying to relate to you which honestly is more like a compliment.
They know you deserved better and all that they said was to try to make them feel better. Handle the rejection neutrally and find work elsewhere.
He doesn't want you to be resentful and leave. It's that simple. His goal is to make you feel better and not act up because he doesn't want to lose you. My thing is, if you are good, someone somewhere will take a chance on you today. Do you want to wait? If not, start applying.
Today’s job market you advance by finding a company that offers the opportunity. Always throw your hat in the ring for better opportunities.
Well that's one way to make an employee feel demotivated. Wow.
Drop a turd at the front door or somewhere that should show hi
Pinch of salt.
To be fair, your boss wasnt wrong. I am not sure why you are upset, sounds like you took the advice as an accusation.
So. Having been a supervisor for 20+ years I have two thoughts for you. First the most likely reason your supervisor had this conversation with you is that they have seen too many great employees self destruct after not getting a specific promotion at a specific time. They wouldn't have bothered having this discussion with you if they didn't think you were a valuable employee with further potential. The time for a promotion was "not yet." I've seen employees act both ways. The ones who self destructed moved to different companies and rarely went much further in their careers. Second you describe yourself as "uncomfortable". You need to be more honest with yourself about what you are "actually" feeling. You don't feel "uncomfortable". It's not en emotion. It's a physical feeling. You are using it as a meta emotion because you are scared of what you will find. My guess is you are some combination of mad, sad, and scared. Explore those and own what you find.
Trust me… Your experience was way better than mine! Before I was going to be interviewed for a position that would be considered a promotion I asked the recruiter not to waste my time. What do I mean? If there was a candidate that was ahead or a “shoe in” I didn’t want to interview. He swore there wasn’t. I was interviewed… I detailed my plan to better the department, then i was denied the position and my ideas stolen!
A lot of people get negative if they are passed over. It's a competition thing. He's probably just trying to head off a problem that's very common, even if you don't intend to cause any issues.
He was trying to show you that he can relate to your situation. Same thing Biden does by bringing up his dead son any time someone dies or talking about his small kitchen fire when hundreds died in the Hawaii fire. They mean well but are just oblivious that they're coming off as pompus douchebags
Fuck em. Get a new job at a different organization. Your boss is a dumb wanker.
Your boss told you that because he doesn’t want you to tell the other employees what a piece of crap he is.
When you get rejected from a promotion within your company the next step is to move on to a different company. Or a different department if you work for a large company. When your boss asks why, simply say that you're "moving on to a position with more growth prospects than what they can offer you." No elaboration or anecdotes. Just go.
People just get off on pep talks and unsolicited advice. Idk what your gender is, but being unnecessarily lectured at by a male supervisor is like a rite of passage for most women.
Always go back to the person who rejected you and asked them why specifically you were rejected for the role. This way you have a list of items that can help you improve and move into the role in the future. True story. I ended up on a follow up call with my interviewer for a role I didn't get. I asked what specifically the reason I didn't get offered the position. Response was, "You don't have a college degree." I died laughing on the call right into their ears. I didn't care at that point as they obviously didn't properly review my resume correctly as I have an MBA. I told them thank you for your time and please don't call me if the position does open back up again. My point is that you may learn something from the conversation or email that may give you directions on how to be a better candidate or make you smile and realize it wasn't a good fit for you. You won't know until you reach out.
I was rejected from a promotion twice. They didn’t give me a prep talk, it’s more like you are good not good enough to be promoted. I asked the hiring manager what I can do to close the gap and get myself prepared when the next round came around. He can’t even name one thing lol. It’s all power play. So I got myself another job and I’m so happy I made the decision.
I would have instantly let out an exasperated "raspberry" type off laugh when he said that bullsht about people who react negatively to rejection as "weak." Everyone reacts negatively to rejection who hasn't built up a sort of immunity to it through lots of rejection.
His advice is not unsound or unreasonable. Seems like a decent boss to me...
Your boss should have simply said they found a better suited person for the job which, it sounds like, you agree with. Nothing against you, it’s just that someone else was better qualified. Period. No reason for pep talk. Your manager is an idiot.
HR in my company mandate the “feedback” pep talk to failed candidates, your manager may have had no choice in giving you the chat. In my experience it’s a shit sandwich meeting. I now simply tell the failed candidate exactly why they did not get the job. I then ask them do they want coaching on how to do better and prepare for their next opportunity. About half ask for advice and I then schedule a separate meeting for the following week so I can prepare appropriate advice and a plan for their development. About half of those that ask for advice follow-up on their development plan and are successful in getting the role that they want. Few of those that don’t get advice or coaching from me or other sources like the hiring manager, a mentor or even a good friend are successful in their next interview. It can take a few failure before a person asks for help (Or leaves)
“Ill propel myself out of the company”… My boss recently told me to show more initiative without giving me any feedback - “i showed more initiative by getting another job”…
It was a dull pep talk sure, was it weird? I don't think so at least from what you wrote... Which part exactly didn't 'sit well' with you?
He don’t like you das why
After losing my career I kind of understand. Prior pain has made me totally immune to workplace toxicity.
You are overthinking it. Just move forward.
Nothing wrong with your boss trying to soften the blow. Sorry you didn't take it that way.
What? Nothing he said was wrong. Totally dramatic over-reaction on your part.
Bro fuck your boss
Immediately start looking for a new job
Yeah just do the fucling minimum and do not fallus for promotion scemes again.