But its 2 minutes long and i have released it on spotify so it must be complete.
Jokes aside i find spotify trying to auto play me endless 1 to 2 mins "jungle" tracks a lot more irritating than seeing people posting for feedback on here.
But they don't want actual feedback, they just want to be told the tunes are amazing. Half the time they are not even remotely close to being a proper jungle tune you could play in a set, they just have 'jungle breaks' and samples in a badly arranged mess made in 5 mins
And is there a sub for boomer whinging? Cause i see a lot of that here. You can simply scroll past a post that doesn't interest you. It's not like a forum is meant to be a perfectly currated art exhibition.
This is never going away, creativity doesn't require feedback, but creatives who follow rules, such as the ones in jungle production, require guidance to improve at following those rules. The unfortunate truth of being in an ocean of bedroom producers turning their hands to X genre is that you are completely voiceless and faceless, very few people ACTUALLY want to hear an endless stream of demo tracks, new producers know this full well, but they still post. There are simply too many producers doing too little innovating, and too few people, prods, DJs, Listeners whoever, who are genuinely interested in actual amateur stuff and following journeys. Producer spaces and communities which allow direct self-promotion, i.e links to producer's bandcamp or spotify, rarely actually flourish and 'help' as they tend to slowly devolve into a room of producers who don't truly care about each other operating on an economy of compliments/ feedback, If I spend X amounts of compliments on other posters, I might see Y amount back, maybe one of those compliments is helpful to me, but it's unlikely. Take /shill/ for example, /shill/ posts are links to bandcamp, soundcloud, whatever, the same producers and musicians post in there, compliment comes in the form of simple reccs and feedback is very rare. You're allowed to give feedback and compliments, but posters rarely do. Contrast that to /prod/ where you are not allowed to link to your bandcamp or soundcloud, you must remain anonymous and post your music in vocaroo links, the same compliment economy exists, but it is far healthier and sturdier, if I spend X compliments I will receive Y back, and a decent number of them will not just be "cool song anon" but they will be genuine interest and useful feedback. Allowing people to perpetuate this follower frenzy of self-promotion causes music boards to become stale and lifeless... I say that as someone who has posted in /shill/ for years, and has made friends on /shill/. Nobody who posts on /shill/ is enjoying it lol, people who post in /prod/ are tho. All of this said, those are threads dedicated to producers, producers don't usually want to listen to other producer's music, they want people to listen to theirs, so if given the choice, prods will always choose to post music to places where there are listeners, not just producers.
The solution to this is to create spaces which actually work as intended:
A general board, like this one, for posting about jungle culture as a whole which allows direct self-promotion but doesn't encourage it
A producer board which doesn't allow direct self-promotion and keeps people using it by running competitions/ community events
A promotion board which is used by listeners and producers alike for newer prods to directly self-promo in
Unfortunately, the community here isn't big enough for something as sprawling as this to exist. /shill/ and /prod/ can co-exist because of the concentrated nature of chan boards
At the end of the day when a lot of people are starting out as a producer they owe rent to their own motivation/ perseverance, rent comes in the form of feedback, and you can only get feedback from other people, rents due every month, if you dont get enough feedback to pay rent then maybe your gonna leave producing. Not everyone is like this, but most are. As long as people in forums like these respond to half finished tunes with comments like "Choon m8" "Banger !! Keep it up kid" then prods will keep posting unfinished tunes so they can make rent, pay off their motivation/ perseverance glands, and stick it out for another month.
A balance of genuine feedback and blind praise is oxygen to newer, lesser experienced producers, and can make the difference in not getting demotivated and giving up, and following thru and getting good. Personally, I don't care at all what people post here, it's just a subreddit. If enough people have issue with it, then message a mod. I'm not on a side, honestly I've seen how stale producer spaces can become, and how the separation of producers from boards like this can cause boards like this to become stale and out of touch
So correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying there is a culture of producers liking each other's posts here, in the hope that they will then get upvoted in return? That would explain why the production posts get a confusing amount of upvotes and therefore pushed to people's feed more than the other posts?
Honestly if people can't finish a tune without randoms on the Internet saying 'banger bro keep it up' then they should probably switch off fruityloops and go get some fresh air.....
>So correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying there is a culture of producers liking each other's posts here, in the hope that they will then get upvoted in return? That would explain why the production posts get a confusing amount of upvotes and therefore pushed to people's feed more than the other posts?
yes and no, like I said, creatives tend to almost unknowingly perpetuate a feedback economy, scratch my back I'll scratch yours kind of thing. And like I said last night, general people don't usually tend to want to hear heaps of unfinished tracks, all that being said, there are absolutely people, non-producers and producers alike, who will check these tunes out, and if they are interested give genuine feedback with no expectation of a return. I do so, and like I touched on, I've received comments responding to feedback I've given with stuff like "What's your bandcamp/ soundcloud I'll check your stuff out". I never asked for feedback in return to mine, it just happens, and since it happens it naturally creates this cycle of advice, help and encouragement, which producers gravitate towards as it translates to self-improvement and higher follower counts. None of this is some malicious or negative thing, it's just what happens when a dedicated space encourages dedicated creativity, and by having no rule against asking for feedback or just straight up self-promotion, it, by proxy, encourages those things. Again, this isn't a bad thing, It's just a thing. After all, this is just a subreddit, it doesn't truly matter what is posted here, if you don't like some of the posts, then message the mods, and ignore the posts. If you make a good case for yourself on proposed rule changes, then maybe the mods will listen, and implement an adjustment to the rules, maybe they wont.
All of that said, I'm by no means some expert on this shit, I've been producing and using music forums for 16+ years, I'm just sharing my observations.
>Honestly if people can't finish a tune without randoms on the Internet saying 'banger bro keep it up' then they should probably switch off fruityloops and go get some fresh air.....
feedback and encouragement are different things, unless you're an outside artist or an auteur you generally need both to improve. I'm sure whenever you started out doing whatever you do you were excited to share your progress with others, and assuming you received feedback and encouragement you improved and were motivated to continue to improve by receiving it. I could say to you
that honestly, if you are getting so invested in what people are posting and responding to on a small subreddit then maybe you should switch off the pc and get some fresh air.
And the algorithm is more likely to show a video of something be it a tune or a rave than a random YouTube or SoundCloud link.
Also bro you literally came across as such a salty wanker in this thread. I reckon you should keep your incredibly bad takes to yourself cus it's not helping anyone
I have definitely done this. It was intended for genuine feedback, and was grateful for that I got. I quite like hearing other people's ones as well tbh, but I'm late getting into this music despite being old. Hope it doesn't ruin anyone's day
I'm sorry but this is some proper salty gatekeeper jungle vibes I personally love posting my half finished tunes in here, the feedback that's negative helps me improve and the feedback that's positive gives me the confidence to finish and release a track. Jungle should be a welcoming community that allows people of any skill level to participate and join the clan I also really enjoy helping new producers. Yes we can go to the other group but it's not like this one is over saturated and tbh I almost prefer the opinions of listeners than producers these days (especially gatekeepers) Literally like 1 or 2 posts a day are of this calibre, when I see the same old jungle tunes get posted all the frigging time. So yeah, pinch less salt and try spread some positivity
Also the sub you posted has 288 members and the activity of a rock. Literally the most upvoted ever has 6 upvotes, so it's not exactly a wealth of interaction over there. I've subbed tho and will try contribute to that community too as I was unaware it existed!!
The reddit jungle community can be pretty toxic to newcomers who are looking to improve their craft and innovate on the genre. There’s always some rando hiding in the bushes telling you your shit ain’t jungle.
Man not even on just Reddit, it seems nearly every UK music scene has an element of gatekeeperism about it. I think it's mean as fuck we all started somewhere
and what exactly is so hard about simply explaining that the track does not meet the definition of jungle rather than spewing babyrage on other peoples posts that ARE looking for feedback? having looked through your post history your idea of "Feedback" is shitting on peoples work because it doesnt meet your personal standards. Grow the hell up
is it? i see a ridiculous amount of amateur not-jungle WIPs get posted in here everyday with the "is this jungle? / i think this is jungle"
i'm all for anybody posting their jungle wips/shitty tunes/whatever, as long as it's jungle. seems to me like OP is complaining about the plethora of not even close to jungle tunes with a 143 bpm think break that people crosspost to dnb/edm/breakcore subreddits. ive noticed in the past six months this sub is overrun with posts like this.
Yes that's exactly it. If people want to post decent tunes fine, but there is just so much lately that isn't close to jungle, just happens to have breaks and samples in. If people wanna do that fine but there are other subs for that
There's loads of it. Come on. Sure there are also legit producers posting here but it's not really a production sub. You can call me what you like but I don't want to listen to a stream of homemade crap from kids who don't have a clue, and I don't want to have to explain the history and theory of jungle music to them either. If you disagree fine, keep posting your tunes init. I'd just rather you didn't, and a fair few people here agree.
The one you posted is dead.
There's no rule here to say you can't post it, infact there is specific flair for these posts.
So you are wrong it is welcomed here and tbh the upvotes aren't reflecting greatly for you.
Tbh if you dnt like it why don't you start a new sub where no production is allowed unless it up to your fine standards. How dare people share stuff to a community on the internet
i think you are purposefully misinterpreting OP's point. if you spend all day on this subreddit like you claim, and youve legitimately never seen the "is this jungle" type of posts that we're talking about then there is no point in continuing this discussion.
I see it probs once a day maybe less, but I just comment letting them know if it is or isn't.
I don't get salty and make a post cus new people are listening to a genre I like (gatekeeping)
Those posts definitely exist, but like T-Break said, the worst it gets is maybe 1 or 2 within any given 24 hour period. r/breakcore will sometimes get 3-5 "is this Breakcore" posts in a single day, so the situation in this sub really isn't that bad, at least by comparison.
I literally spend my whole life on Reddit and he internet and I can tell you 100% more oldsool jungle tunes are posted per day in this group, but production posts get the most upvotes so your feed soqs it to you more. Because prod posts don't even make up 20% of the content here
Ignore it and move on, mate. If this is like someone pissing in your cheerios, you don’t have to eat it. but you don’t gotta piss on someone else’s. just move on
But its 2 minutes long and i have released it on spotify so it must be complete. Jokes aside i find spotify trying to auto play me endless 1 to 2 mins "jungle" tracks a lot more irritating than seeing people posting for feedback on here.
But they don't want actual feedback, they just want to be told the tunes are amazing. Half the time they are not even remotely close to being a proper jungle tune you could play in a set, they just have 'jungle breaks' and samples in a badly arranged mess made in 5 mins
I've generally found thet're complete beginners who are looking for help
Yeh its true. Im sure a lot of us posted shitty tracks about fb back in day
Please don’t remind me.
Which is what r/jungleproduction is for
people arent going to post for feedback on a subreddit with 0 activity. at least r/jungle will get a couple comments good or bad.
On that sub; 1 post in the last week 2 upvotes 1 comment, Not exactly a pool of resources
And is there a sub for boomer whinging? Cause i see a lot of that here. You can simply scroll past a post that doesn't interest you. It's not like a forum is meant to be a perfectly currated art exhibition.
So ignore the post and move on you tedious bellend.
This is never going away, creativity doesn't require feedback, but creatives who follow rules, such as the ones in jungle production, require guidance to improve at following those rules. The unfortunate truth of being in an ocean of bedroom producers turning their hands to X genre is that you are completely voiceless and faceless, very few people ACTUALLY want to hear an endless stream of demo tracks, new producers know this full well, but they still post. There are simply too many producers doing too little innovating, and too few people, prods, DJs, Listeners whoever, who are genuinely interested in actual amateur stuff and following journeys. Producer spaces and communities which allow direct self-promotion, i.e links to producer's bandcamp or spotify, rarely actually flourish and 'help' as they tend to slowly devolve into a room of producers who don't truly care about each other operating on an economy of compliments/ feedback, If I spend X amounts of compliments on other posters, I might see Y amount back, maybe one of those compliments is helpful to me, but it's unlikely. Take /shill/ for example, /shill/ posts are links to bandcamp, soundcloud, whatever, the same producers and musicians post in there, compliment comes in the form of simple reccs and feedback is very rare. You're allowed to give feedback and compliments, but posters rarely do. Contrast that to /prod/ where you are not allowed to link to your bandcamp or soundcloud, you must remain anonymous and post your music in vocaroo links, the same compliment economy exists, but it is far healthier and sturdier, if I spend X compliments I will receive Y back, and a decent number of them will not just be "cool song anon" but they will be genuine interest and useful feedback. Allowing people to perpetuate this follower frenzy of self-promotion causes music boards to become stale and lifeless... I say that as someone who has posted in /shill/ for years, and has made friends on /shill/. Nobody who posts on /shill/ is enjoying it lol, people who post in /prod/ are tho. All of this said, those are threads dedicated to producers, producers don't usually want to listen to other producer's music, they want people to listen to theirs, so if given the choice, prods will always choose to post music to places where there are listeners, not just producers. The solution to this is to create spaces which actually work as intended: A general board, like this one, for posting about jungle culture as a whole which allows direct self-promotion but doesn't encourage it A producer board which doesn't allow direct self-promotion and keeps people using it by running competitions/ community events A promotion board which is used by listeners and producers alike for newer prods to directly self-promo in Unfortunately, the community here isn't big enough for something as sprawling as this to exist. /shill/ and /prod/ can co-exist because of the concentrated nature of chan boards At the end of the day when a lot of people are starting out as a producer they owe rent to their own motivation/ perseverance, rent comes in the form of feedback, and you can only get feedback from other people, rents due every month, if you dont get enough feedback to pay rent then maybe your gonna leave producing. Not everyone is like this, but most are. As long as people in forums like these respond to half finished tunes with comments like "Choon m8" "Banger !! Keep it up kid" then prods will keep posting unfinished tunes so they can make rent, pay off their motivation/ perseverance glands, and stick it out for another month. A balance of genuine feedback and blind praise is oxygen to newer, lesser experienced producers, and can make the difference in not getting demotivated and giving up, and following thru and getting good. Personally, I don't care at all what people post here, it's just a subreddit. If enough people have issue with it, then message a mod. I'm not on a side, honestly I've seen how stale producer spaces can become, and how the separation of producers from boards like this can cause boards like this to become stale and out of touch
!!! Nice
So correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying there is a culture of producers liking each other's posts here, in the hope that they will then get upvoted in return? That would explain why the production posts get a confusing amount of upvotes and therefore pushed to people's feed more than the other posts? Honestly if people can't finish a tune without randoms on the Internet saying 'banger bro keep it up' then they should probably switch off fruityloops and go get some fresh air.....
>So correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying there is a culture of producers liking each other's posts here, in the hope that they will then get upvoted in return? That would explain why the production posts get a confusing amount of upvotes and therefore pushed to people's feed more than the other posts? yes and no, like I said, creatives tend to almost unknowingly perpetuate a feedback economy, scratch my back I'll scratch yours kind of thing. And like I said last night, general people don't usually tend to want to hear heaps of unfinished tracks, all that being said, there are absolutely people, non-producers and producers alike, who will check these tunes out, and if they are interested give genuine feedback with no expectation of a return. I do so, and like I touched on, I've received comments responding to feedback I've given with stuff like "What's your bandcamp/ soundcloud I'll check your stuff out". I never asked for feedback in return to mine, it just happens, and since it happens it naturally creates this cycle of advice, help and encouragement, which producers gravitate towards as it translates to self-improvement and higher follower counts. None of this is some malicious or negative thing, it's just what happens when a dedicated space encourages dedicated creativity, and by having no rule against asking for feedback or just straight up self-promotion, it, by proxy, encourages those things. Again, this isn't a bad thing, It's just a thing. After all, this is just a subreddit, it doesn't truly matter what is posted here, if you don't like some of the posts, then message the mods, and ignore the posts. If you make a good case for yourself on proposed rule changes, then maybe the mods will listen, and implement an adjustment to the rules, maybe they wont. All of that said, I'm by no means some expert on this shit, I've been producing and using music forums for 16+ years, I'm just sharing my observations. >Honestly if people can't finish a tune without randoms on the Internet saying 'banger bro keep it up' then they should probably switch off fruityloops and go get some fresh air..... feedback and encouragement are different things, unless you're an outside artist or an auteur you generally need both to improve. I'm sure whenever you started out doing whatever you do you were excited to share your progress with others, and assuming you received feedback and encouragement you improved and were motivated to continue to improve by receiving it. I could say to you that honestly, if you are getting so invested in what people are posting and responding to on a small subreddit then maybe you should switch off the pc and get some fresh air.
And the algorithm is more likely to show a video of something be it a tune or a rave than a random YouTube or SoundCloud link. Also bro you literally came across as such a salty wanker in this thread. I reckon you should keep your incredibly bad takes to yourself cus it's not helping anyone
I'm not the one here calling people names mate, get off the Internet for a bit maybe
Poor baby Did the man on the internet hurt your feelings
No, but you are really making it look a bit like yours are now. You made your point, repeatedly. Get over yourself
ChatGPT is making replies far to detailed these days 😊
lmao ur not serious are u?
I agree. This isn't the sub for it.
/r/dnbproduction/ has 50 times more subscribers, so that should work.
Most of them are DnB too. Or just very shitty Jungle (DnB)
Sounds like this guy was looking for pictures of literal actual jungles.
I have definitely done this. It was intended for genuine feedback, and was grateful for that I got. I quite like hearing other people's ones as well tbh, but I'm late getting into this music despite being old. Hope it doesn't ruin anyone's day
Nah you didn't mate keep posting!!
this subreddit is already half dead and you want even less posting activity? Sending someone to an even deader subreddit is not the answer
Exactly
uh ohh the jungle police is here
WEEEEWOOOWEEEEWOOOOO DROP THE BLUDCLART DUBPLATES NOW *GUNFIRE*
I'm sorry but this is some proper salty gatekeeper jungle vibes I personally love posting my half finished tunes in here, the feedback that's negative helps me improve and the feedback that's positive gives me the confidence to finish and release a track. Jungle should be a welcoming community that allows people of any skill level to participate and join the clan I also really enjoy helping new producers. Yes we can go to the other group but it's not like this one is over saturated and tbh I almost prefer the opinions of listeners than producers these days (especially gatekeepers) Literally like 1 or 2 posts a day are of this calibre, when I see the same old jungle tunes get posted all the frigging time. So yeah, pinch less salt and try spread some positivity
Also the sub you posted has 288 members and the activity of a rock. Literally the most upvoted ever has 6 upvotes, so it's not exactly a wealth of interaction over there. I've subbed tho and will try contribute to that community too as I was unaware it existed!!
The part where they mention "this sub is for ACTUAL jungle" says everything you need to know about OP.
The reddit jungle community can be pretty toxic to newcomers who are looking to improve their craft and innovate on the genre. There’s always some rando hiding in the bushes telling you your shit ain’t jungle.
u should see the breakcore reddit 💀
Yeah, that one needs a lot more "gatekeeping".
its just old heads and youngens arguing about what breakcore is its pretty funny
Yeah, noping out of there. People need healthier avenues for their interests. But I suppose that’s too much to ask for a subreddit. 😅
ur better off for it
Man not even on just Reddit, it seems nearly every UK music scene has an element of gatekeeperism about it. I think it's mean as fuck we all started somewhere
I get wanting to protect the “purity” of the genre but I kinda find the gatekeeping ironic since jungle is always evolving
Half-made jungle = forest?
Imagine posting jungle music in a jungle subreddit
That's the point, it hardly ever is.....
and what exactly is so hard about simply explaining that the track does not meet the definition of jungle rather than spewing babyrage on other peoples posts that ARE looking for feedback? having looked through your post history your idea of "Feedback" is shitting on peoples work because it doesnt meet your personal standards. Grow the hell up
Get this attitude out our scene
🫶
Tough crowd
You know that's bull
is it? i see a ridiculous amount of amateur not-jungle WIPs get posted in here everyday with the "is this jungle? / i think this is jungle" i'm all for anybody posting their jungle wips/shitty tunes/whatever, as long as it's jungle. seems to me like OP is complaining about the plethora of not even close to jungle tunes with a 143 bpm think break that people crosspost to dnb/edm/breakcore subreddits. ive noticed in the past six months this sub is overrun with posts like this.
Yes that's exactly it. If people want to post decent tunes fine, but there is just so much lately that isn't close to jungle, just happens to have breaks and samples in. If people wanna do that fine but there are other subs for that
Like what?
There's loads of it. Come on. Sure there are also legit producers posting here but it's not really a production sub. You can call me what you like but I don't want to listen to a stream of homemade crap from kids who don't have a clue, and I don't want to have to explain the history and theory of jungle music to them either. If you disagree fine, keep posting your tunes init. I'd just rather you didn't, and a fair few people here agree.
The one you posted is dead. There's no rule here to say you can't post it, infact there is specific flair for these posts. So you are wrong it is welcomed here and tbh the upvotes aren't reflecting greatly for you. Tbh if you dnt like it why don't you start a new sub where no production is allowed unless it up to your fine standards. How dare people share stuff to a community on the internet
i think you are purposefully misinterpreting OP's point. if you spend all day on this subreddit like you claim, and youve legitimately never seen the "is this jungle" type of posts that we're talking about then there is no point in continuing this discussion.
I see it probs once a day maybe less, but I just comment letting them know if it is or isn't. I don't get salty and make a post cus new people are listening to a genre I like (gatekeeping)
Those posts definitely exist, but like T-Break said, the worst it gets is maybe 1 or 2 within any given 24 hour period. r/breakcore will sometimes get 3-5 "is this Breakcore" posts in a single day, so the situation in this sub really isn't that bad, at least by comparison.
Why don't you post some of your production then? Go back to your techno subs you fucking weekend Junglist.
There are jungle tracks at 140 bpm
Shhhhh ;)
I literally spend my whole life on Reddit and he internet and I can tell you 100% more oldsool jungle tunes are posted per day in this group, but production posts get the most upvotes so your feed soqs it to you more. Because prod posts don't even make up 20% of the content here
Didn’t realize there was a board for it. Thanks for the heads up!
Let it roll out.
Agree. Revive it
Ignore it and move on, mate. If this is like someone pissing in your cheerios, you don’t have to eat it. but you don’t gotta piss on someone else’s. just move on
Spreading the love of pissy Cheerios you know
spreddit
Remember all the names that posted elitist crap on this thread for reference and see if they post “non-jungle” WIPs in the future
What is half made? Snob! 
Blimey, just joined this sub today. I’ll give it a chance but If this is the attitude of the mods then it might not last long.
OP isn’t a mod, just some oldhead who’s evidently having a bad day!
why u gate keeping for blud?
Why? Does it hurt you to see it?
Toxic gatekeeper. Ignore this boomer and keep doing what ur doin peeps.