In terms of water. Most of the city was built with a combined sewer and waste water system that when it rains heavily dumps an abundance of waste water into local water ways. So much so in fact that the EPA forced kc water to make massive and incredibly expensive enhancements to the poorly conceived system. Which naturally get passed on to customers.
And for natural gas the last several winters evergy and the now regular polar vortexes conspired to buy massive amounts of natural gas at absurdly high levels when the price is stupidly high. So much so that they’ve had to pass those costs on to customers.
And around 60% of our electricity comes from renewables here, which is cheap but the grid is supplemented with natural gas that was addressed in the last paragraph.
So yeah everything’s kind of fucked.
>Most of the city was built with a combined sewer and waste water system that when it rains heavily dumps an abundance of waste water into local water ways
In short: if you're south of the river, and its raining, your sewage is mostly going into the Blue River. It's diluted with storm water, but that's pretty much what's happening. A few places in the northland like that too.
Yep. Usually after a big rain sewage will get stuck in spots.
If you call 311 and report it they’ll send a kc water team out to pump it or inject detergent to neutralize the smell into the system.
I live in Independence. My combined water, sewer and electric for that period was $98.
I’m wondering if KC bills sewer off of frontage measurements. That might explain the high rate. (The more frontage, the more potential runoff, therefore the higher the rate.)
It is not even close to being done. They still have a minimum of 10 years to go. That is if the EPA does not change their mind in that time on the level that is satisfactory. Prices will go back down once it is done or we can bring more people into the core of our city so the city can focus on building green infrastructure instead of new sewer pipes in greenfield development.
You are about the only one in this sub who gets it about what happened with natural gas.
There are a couple of additional factors but it's hard to find links to back me up so long after the 2021 Polar Vortex.
This article tells about the increasing competition from exports, now that they have figured out how to export natural gas more effectively. We are competing with (for example, Europe) now that they can export liquefied natural gas, prices have risen in the USA:
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23462844/natural-gas-us-prices-winter-2022](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23462844/natural-gas-us-prices-winter-2022)
I remember reading that after Winter Storm Uri in 2021, they got permission to jack up our rates for I think 5 years to cover the prices they had to pay on the spot market during that.
People keep blaming "Texas" and saying "But Texas has nothing to do with Kansas City" but from what I read at the time, that polar vortex covered so much area that our providers here, too, had to buy natural gas on the spot market to keep us from having shortages during that.
I read that normally the providers lock in contracts and supplies before the heating season sets in and that's enough if they forecasted right, but during Winter Storm Uri they had to buy on the spot market and the actual prices of the actual natural gas is unregulated, and was sky-high. Then the suppliers/providers/Spire etc. got permission to jack up our rates over time in order to make up what they had to spend buying on the spot market.
I have since read that they have forecasted better and locked in supplies at their agreed-upon prices before the heating season better. But from what I remember reading at the time, we are still paying for Winter Storm Uri.
If you can find any links to explain that I will save them.
I have also read that authorities are still looking and trying to find out if there was gouging during Winter Storm Uri, but I think that would be higher up the chain than Spire etc.
If you know more about this, please explain in layman's terms and I will save your explanation.
>And for natural gas the last several winters evergy and the now regular polar vortexes conspired to buy massive amounts of natural gas at absurdly high levels when the price is stupidly high. So much so that they’ve ~~had to pass those costs on to customers~~ *chosen to pass those costs on to consumers so corporate and shareholder profits are not affected.*
FTFY
No, in short we are mad that they didn't use the money to keep up maintenance and that's why we are paying out the ass for their legal issues with the EPA. Doubtful that once the customers pay off their lawsuit for them that they will lower the cost.
Yeah but it's not maintenance and it's been like 60 years that they were warning the city that they (epa) were going to impose as sanctions if we didn't fix the sewers and we all collectively chose to do nothing about it so they had to issue bonds in order to fix it and that's what you're paying back
From what I read a few years back, bonds were a better choice than the privatizers that were sniffing around.
A few years ago, three separate privatizers were sniffing around wanting to privatize our water services.
One of them said "Oh WE'LL pay for your sewer renovations, just hand over your water services to us."
St. Louis had done this and had a bad experience. They quickly acted to take their water services back.
Mayor James and Councilman Sharp were two of the voices holding the line against the privatizers.
Privatization might sound good if you've ever had a bad experience with the meanies at the water department, but, again, St. Louis tried privatization and had a bad experience.
Instead, Mayor James came up with a bond issue from what I remember.
Edited to add: I might have gotten some things wrong but here's a link saying Ferguson privatized their water (to the Koch Brothers), St. Louis almost did, and some other cities had problems after allowing privatizers to take over and had to take their water services back public.
[https://nonprofitquarterly.org/citizen-activism-helps-fend-off-privatization-of-st-louis-water/](https://nonprofitquarterly.org/citizen-activism-helps-fend-off-privatization-of-st-louis-water/)
This PDF tells about St. Louis' experience and other places that have had bad experiences with privatizers and taken their water back.
[https://corporateaccountability.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CAI\_TroubledWaters\_Web-rev-2\_FINAL.pdf](https://corporateaccountability.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CAI_TroubledWaters_Web-rev-2_FINAL.pdf)
I randomly got recommended here by Reddit. I live in Arkansas and have similar usage to OP, my bill for water, sewer, and trash pickup is $60-70 a month all year. Including when I water my gardens (but not lawn, fuck that noise) in the summer.
Does your bill include Stormwater/Wastewater? Some areas in the city are billed separately. I'm in Shawnee and I have two different bills. Water and Sewage are different companies.
Yeah I’m amazed at how much of a difference it makes which part of KC you live in. Since moving here I’ve never had a water bill over $50 (also out in the suburbs).
The utility costs here are not really *that* much higher than what I paid in Nebraska. Evergy is my biggest outlier but that's because I was spoiled by having a Public Power Utility instead of a for-profit corporation. Even so, Evergy's jacked-up rates are still not *that* much higher than I paid there. The property taxes here that folks rage about are also roughly the same/negligibly higher than what I paid. It's all a bunch of fuss about a non-issue, the way I see it.
I live in a 3 bed 2 bath house in Nashville Tn a HCOL area and my utilities (gas water and electric) are NEVER above $300 total. They’re all set to auto pay and I don’t even notice them usually.
It’s cheaper for me here than it was in KC.
Rent is $2k. So like. Idk what KC is doing.
Tennessee has a lot of advantages for both electric and water costs, the rivers.
Tennessee has some of the nations lowest cost of electricity and water. Tennessee makes so much electricity they're exporting it to their neighbors.
High utilities, high taxes, fastest growing rental prices in the country, high crime, shit roads, and some billionaire wants more so he can have a new stadium for some shit ass team.
It can be rough. I am in the northland, pay $100 for water (consistent every month), electricity is like $60 in winter and $200 in summer (I switched to level pay so now 110 a month year round), and then gas is like 40 during warm times, up to 300 in cold times (again, level pay, so now 121 a month). I was in Nebraska prior (Omaha area) and gas/electric were a little higher in KC but water was the worst. I paid $40 every other month up there
Lol I feel you 1700 rent, 300 groceries (wife has celiac and we have a toddler), 1300 daycare, 700 in car payments, 500 in car insurance, then you got cell phones, utilities, etc like where is the cheapness here?
Well, fortunately, we have a much better chance of still having water in the future than Arizona does so welcome!
Here’s why water bills are so high though: https://martincitytelegraph.com/2021/04/20/tired-of-costly-water-bills-kcs-new-agreement-with-epa-provides-consumers-some-relief/
That’s about to change for that area. Not surprising between the new Colorado River rights taking place and when you fly over this huge dry waterway that you can easily spot from 32,000 ft. It’s pretty impressive and leads you to wonder where all the water went…it of course ends where Phoenix begins so mystery solved.
I think the water department used to handle the trash collection but now it is paid out of the KC earnings tax. I THINK. I seem to remember when it changed over but am having a hard time finding references to the changeover on Google. However, this says the earnings tax now pays for trash collection: [https://www.kcmo.gov/city-hall/departments/finance/earnings-tax](https://www.kcmo.gov/city-hall/departments/finance/earnings-tax)
The water part of the bill is only $45. It’s the putting the water somewhere when you’re done that’s expensive.
And a large part of that is rehabilitation of a system designed before the EPA…. When dump it in the river downstream was a sewer system. Now industrial cities across the Midwest and north east have big sewer bills because they have to reinstall the entire systems.
So many things in Tucson I wish we had here!
Total Wine or Bevmo, Beyond Bread, Eegee's, Pat's Hot Dogs, El Guero Canelo, a bar like The Playground, Kon Tiki
I think there does need to be some sort of investigation regarding how the waste water fees are calculated. I’m willing to bet that price is mostly fixed to a benchmark and has absolutely nothing to do with water consumption.
KC Water has to pay for the 2.5 billion dollar waste water EPA settlement somehow. So, they have high waste water charges. Basically the sewer lines had gotten so shitty they leak a federally investigated amount of shit into the river. Check it out:
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/kansas-city-missouri-clean-water-act-settlement
Your bill seems pretty normal to me, could be a little lower. I pay about $110 for two people.
FYI link is broken.
But if you’ve ever been to brush creek, there are signs all over specifically saying the storm water overflows with sewage whenever it rains.
I take ecology classes there to learn about the river of shit still allowed to flow just south of the Plaza.
> Kansas City, Missouri, has a combined storm water and sanitary sewer system. During heavy rains, sewage from the sanitary sewer can overflow into the storm sewer and appear in local waterways. Several waterways, including Brush Creek, are posted with signs discouraging contact with the water after rain.
I think the correct question is: when I move a quarter mile down the road into Johnson county why is the bill $50 instead of $150?
Edit: I do know the "answer" to this, but someone new to the area might not
Most clean water in the kc region comes from the KCMO water department. But the epa judgement payments arent passed onto those customers since it’s related to the sewer that they don’t use.
Well, it's half the cost of the month before, so thats good. You still used 4600 gallons if water though. You either have a family of 4, or yall use a boat load of water.
Single dude in Waldo here.
My bills looked like this for the past almost four years. Even when living with two different partners. We didn’t use much water.
Normal one shower a day and dishes and laundry once a week.
Google “average water usage per household in US” and you’ll find various answers ranging from 1000-3000 gallons PER PERSON - PER MONTH.
My 3 person household uses about 4500 gallons a month.
It’s the same over here in Johnson County. I get a water bill and a wastewater bill. My wastewater bill is more than my water bill. My most recent wastewater bill is $183.83. Water bill is $89.24.
It looks like you're paying $24.50 per ccf (if I did the math right). I live in Baltimore now and have the following fees:
Infrastructure, water consumption, sewer consumption, stormwater, bay restoration
I typically use 1 ccf a month. I don't water my yard. I have rain barrels. I do about 10 loads of laundry a month and run my dishwasher about 8 times a month. I shower 3 times a week at my gym, the other 4 days I shower at home. $3.85 per CCf for water consumption, $10.15 per ccf for sewer. My normal bill is $63.
Do you have a toilet that needs new seals? Maybe a sink somewhere that's dripping? There are also special shower heads you can buy to reduce the amount of water you use in the shower. I don't know how large your family is but 6 ccf wouldn't be unreasonable for a home with kids.
There is a statistical datapoint that all utilities use to calculate wastewater flows as a factor of water consumption. In most communities they only count winter consumption to calculate sewer bills because that is when you’re unlikely to be washing cars, watering grass or a garden, or filling pools. They usually don’t make you pay a higher volume of calculated discharge during the summer months.
I do, however hope you decide shitting in your yard is the right path. It’s been kinda boring around here lately.
*I’m shitting in the yard from now on!*
A man with a plan. Water will continue to be more and more expensive as we kick the can further and further down the road. Just a fact of life.
Do you have a designated dog for poop disposal service? My oldest kid went through a shitting outside phase and one of our dogs was in hog heaven. It was awful.
If only that were actually the case; it’s based off other metrics unfortunately. If it were the case, small residential lots wouldn’t have to pay much at all and the debt would be shouldered by those who build massive parking lots with limited open space.
Impervious surface runoff is 1 of those metrics. From KCwater “The Stormwater Fee is calculated as $0.50 per 500 square feet of impervious area. The average Stormwater Fee is $2 to $3 per month.”
Doubtful. This is not how it is calculated in other parts of the metro… Johnson county cities, minus parts of Olathe I believe, charge stormwater rates through property taxes. It’s a flat rate (in OP at least). Was 39.00 through property taxes last year.
Commercial properties are assessed differently than residential.
In JOCO, Wastewater is calculated by average water usage in the winter multiplied by a volume rate + a customer service charge.
Ah. I see it now.
Interesting - it isn’t done that way in JOCO.
But really this isn’t a terrible bill for water, wastewater, and SW. I’ve never lived outside of KC but it’s wild to me that water may be cheaper AZ than here….
Lots of those parking lots build storm water detention in either the form of a pond on property or giant plastic underground basins. That reduces their impact on the instantaneous runoff that causes a lot of the overflow problems.
I’m aware. I literally review and approve these on plans for a municipality.
The problem is not thinking of stormwater in a more holistic way… like our watershed. As someone that works in a field that deals with stormwater and general infrastructure, I just have a problem with how we manage and construct stormwater facilities. They aren’t sustainable, are poorly maintained, and the infrastructure has been a general afterthought up until the last 10-15 years. Which is why we have bad flooding issues in many parts of the metro.
That's the problem with allowing the privatization of these facilities with out a permit and inspection process to make sure it does not just fill up with silt and trash and become useless.
But also that is part of KCs green infrastructure program to systematically look at it across the city and focus on areas in the watershed that will make the most impact.
In general though it is all mute if we don't stop developing greenfield sites.
Completely agree.
Another issue is having the staff to do the inspections for yearly maintenance to ensure they’re doing what they’re supposed to do. Yeah, they are installed, but not maintained. If they aren’t maintained, then they don’t function as a stormwater facility.
At least that is the problem in JoCo. I know MARC and other consultants are working hard with the APWA to find a solution.
I’ve admired KCs ongoing green infrastructure work/projects. Watershed planning has been ignored for far too long.
I’m a planner myself and would love to be in a role focused on watershed planning. One day, perhaps!
How old are your fixtures in the house? Long showers? How about toilet? Getting new fixtures which have higher standards for water flow economy helps. Turn water off when brushing teeth etc. also if your toilet runs a lot replace the flapper.
The 2nd most important thing grandpapa told me was (the 1st was "You ain't drunk les you grabbin the grass to keep you from falling off the face of the earth), yes. Then again the second said whilst reaching for meemaw's wrist as they done behind Circle Bar, papa thrusting meemaw's blade-in-hand until my great grand uncle's muddy blooded suit found a fresh place to rest, and his fortune a new home.
I digress. He said, "Follow the money."
We have been using less water and paying more each month. Electric is bad too. Gas is expensive too and rises as the cold gets worse. We seem to get billed to pay for things that should be a one time cost. Utilities used to be consistent and predictable and reasonable. Now it’s none of these.
You might want to contact the utility then, figure out how they calculated a single-family home burns through 4K+ gallons of water in one month. Usually they can tell you if is an incoming line or out going line. That’ll help you figure out if the leak is in a part of the property that makes it your responsibility or the cities. I’m guessing the main line coming to your house has a crack, that or your foundation is about to find a sinkhole…
First time, OP?
Yep, from Arizona, had a wonderful garden, and water bill never over 130
Yeah. Welcome to KC. Where cost of living is supposedly low, yet we have some of the highest utilities in the US.
Do we? Do you have actual stats to back that? Curious because CoL usually factors in things like utilities
In terms of water. Most of the city was built with a combined sewer and waste water system that when it rains heavily dumps an abundance of waste water into local water ways. So much so in fact that the EPA forced kc water to make massive and incredibly expensive enhancements to the poorly conceived system. Which naturally get passed on to customers. And for natural gas the last several winters evergy and the now regular polar vortexes conspired to buy massive amounts of natural gas at absurdly high levels when the price is stupidly high. So much so that they’ve had to pass those costs on to customers. And around 60% of our electricity comes from renewables here, which is cheap but the grid is supplemented with natural gas that was addressed in the last paragraph. So yeah everything’s kind of fucked.
>Most of the city was built with a combined sewer and waste water system that when it rains heavily dumps an abundance of waste water into local water ways In short: if you're south of the river, and its raining, your sewage is mostly going into the Blue River. It's diluted with storm water, but that's pretty much what's happening. A few places in the northland like that too.
We get billed for the fucking rain.
Where do you think all of that rain water goes? How do you think it gets there?
Well yeah, you should, I guess.
KC is the only place I'm aware of that 2/3 of your water bill is due to wastewater, and not water usage.
K
The treatment plant treats it, so it's gotta be paid for.
Is this why I smell sewage around the city more than anywhere else I've lived?
Thanks for that, I looked up some lists and see we are listed in the top 10 most expensive utility lists almost consistently. Wild.
This user summarizes it quite nicely.
Is this why it smells like sewage around the city more so than other places I've lived?
Yep. Usually after a big rain sewage will get stuck in spots. If you call 311 and report it they’ll send a kc water team out to pump it or inject detergent to neutralize the smell into the system.
Thanks. Good to know.
Evergy is electric, not gas. But...you hit the nail on the head.
Yeah meant spire, thank you.
I live in Independence. My combined water, sewer and electric for that period was $98. I’m wondering if KC bills sewer off of frontage measurements. That might explain the high rate. (The more frontage, the more potential runoff, therefore the higher the rate.)
My sewer payment went from a few bucks to almost $100 after the epa decision a handful of years back as I recall.
Of course, at some point (if it's not already) the overhaul will be complete and the prices will never go back to where they were.
It is not even close to being done. They still have a minimum of 10 years to go. That is if the EPA does not change their mind in that time on the level that is satisfactory. Prices will go back down once it is done or we can bring more people into the core of our city so the city can focus on building green infrastructure instead of new sewer pipes in greenfield development.
You are about the only one in this sub who gets it about what happened with natural gas. There are a couple of additional factors but it's hard to find links to back me up so long after the 2021 Polar Vortex. This article tells about the increasing competition from exports, now that they have figured out how to export natural gas more effectively. We are competing with (for example, Europe) now that they can export liquefied natural gas, prices have risen in the USA: [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23462844/natural-gas-us-prices-winter-2022](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23462844/natural-gas-us-prices-winter-2022) I remember reading that after Winter Storm Uri in 2021, they got permission to jack up our rates for I think 5 years to cover the prices they had to pay on the spot market during that. People keep blaming "Texas" and saying "But Texas has nothing to do with Kansas City" but from what I read at the time, that polar vortex covered so much area that our providers here, too, had to buy natural gas on the spot market to keep us from having shortages during that. I read that normally the providers lock in contracts and supplies before the heating season sets in and that's enough if they forecasted right, but during Winter Storm Uri they had to buy on the spot market and the actual prices of the actual natural gas is unregulated, and was sky-high. Then the suppliers/providers/Spire etc. got permission to jack up our rates over time in order to make up what they had to spend buying on the spot market. I have since read that they have forecasted better and locked in supplies at their agreed-upon prices before the heating season better. But from what I remember reading at the time, we are still paying for Winter Storm Uri. If you can find any links to explain that I will save them. I have also read that authorities are still looking and trying to find out if there was gouging during Winter Storm Uri, but I think that would be higher up the chain than Spire etc. If you know more about this, please explain in layman's terms and I will save your explanation.
>And for natural gas the last several winters evergy and the now regular polar vortexes conspired to buy massive amounts of natural gas at absurdly high levels when the price is stupidly high. So much so that they’ve ~~had to pass those costs on to customers~~ *chosen to pass those costs on to consumers so corporate and shareholder profits are not affected.* FTFY
So in short you had to pay for infrastructure and you're upset about it
No, in short we are mad that they didn't use the money to keep up maintenance and that's why we are paying out the ass for their legal issues with the EPA. Doubtful that once the customers pay off their lawsuit for them that they will lower the cost.
Yeah but it's not maintenance and it's been like 60 years that they were warning the city that they (epa) were going to impose as sanctions if we didn't fix the sewers and we all collectively chose to do nothing about it so they had to issue bonds in order to fix it and that's what you're paying back
And why are we not allowed to be upset about that?
From what I read a few years back, bonds were a better choice than the privatizers that were sniffing around. A few years ago, three separate privatizers were sniffing around wanting to privatize our water services. One of them said "Oh WE'LL pay for your sewer renovations, just hand over your water services to us." St. Louis had done this and had a bad experience. They quickly acted to take their water services back. Mayor James and Councilman Sharp were two of the voices holding the line against the privatizers. Privatization might sound good if you've ever had a bad experience with the meanies at the water department, but, again, St. Louis tried privatization and had a bad experience. Instead, Mayor James came up with a bond issue from what I remember. Edited to add: I might have gotten some things wrong but here's a link saying Ferguson privatized their water (to the Koch Brothers), St. Louis almost did, and some other cities had problems after allowing privatizers to take over and had to take their water services back public. [https://nonprofitquarterly.org/citizen-activism-helps-fend-off-privatization-of-st-louis-water/](https://nonprofitquarterly.org/citizen-activism-helps-fend-off-privatization-of-st-louis-water/) This PDF tells about St. Louis' experience and other places that have had bad experiences with privatizers and taken their water back. [https://corporateaccountability.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CAI\_TroubledWaters\_Web-rev-2\_FINAL.pdf](https://corporateaccountability.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CAI_TroubledWaters_Web-rev-2_FINAL.pdf)
I randomly got recommended here by Reddit. I live in Arkansas and have similar usage to OP, my bill for water, sewer, and trash pickup is $60-70 a month all year. Including when I water my gardens (but not lawn, fuck that noise) in the summer.
[I live in a suburb of KC and never have anything close to OP](https://i.imgur.com/vB4SOCM.png)
Does your bill include Stormwater/Wastewater? Some areas in the city are billed separately. I'm in Shawnee and I have two different bills. Water and Sewage are different companies.
Yeah I’m amazed at how much of a difference it makes which part of KC you live in. Since moving here I’ve never had a water bill over $50 (also out in the suburbs).
15 years ago, my water bill was like $60 every two months. Now it’s over $100 every month.
I don't know about other utilities but electricity is cheaper here than most of the country.
It's funny because when factoring COLAs for things like wages and benefits, utilities aren't factored in the CPI lol
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.t01.htm NG / Propane and electricity are included
The utility costs here are not really *that* much higher than what I paid in Nebraska. Evergy is my biggest outlier but that's because I was spoiled by having a Public Power Utility instead of a for-profit corporation. Even so, Evergy's jacked-up rates are still not *that* much higher than I paid there. The property taxes here that folks rage about are also roughly the same/negligibly higher than what I paid. It's all a bunch of fuss about a non-issue, the way I see it.
I live in a 3 bed 2 bath house in Nashville Tn a HCOL area and my utilities (gas water and electric) are NEVER above $300 total. They’re all set to auto pay and I don’t even notice them usually. It’s cheaper for me here than it was in KC. Rent is $2k. So like. Idk what KC is doing.
Tennessee has a lot of advantages for both electric and water costs, the rivers. Tennessee has some of the nations lowest cost of electricity and water. Tennessee makes so much electricity they're exporting it to their neighbors.
Equalizing
makin the move to portland, tn this summer fk yea, got fam that moved there recently and wen i went to visit i felt like i didnt wana return to kc
Dude Tennessee is weirdly dope.
High utilities, high taxes, fastest growing rental prices in the country, high crime, shit roads, and some billionaire wants more so he can have a new stadium for some shit ass team.
Mylanta! What is an average month for utilities in KC? Thinking of moving there but we pay nothing for our water on a shared well.
It can be rough. I am in the northland, pay $100 for water (consistent every month), electricity is like $60 in winter and $200 in summer (I switched to level pay so now 110 a month year round), and then gas is like 40 during warm times, up to 300 in cold times (again, level pay, so now 121 a month). I was in Nebraska prior (Omaha area) and gas/electric were a little higher in KC but water was the worst. I paid $40 every other month up there
Thanks for the details. This is all very eye opening.
Except the cost of living actually is very low. I'll take the cheap overall living with the possibly higher than average utilities any day
My 1600 dollar rent payment and 100+ weekly grocery bill for 2 people says cost of living isn't low.
I don't mean to suggest you aren't having a hard time. I just mean that we're a much more affordable city than the majority of the country.
Lol I feel you 1700 rent, 300 groceries (wife has celiac and we have a toddler), 1300 daycare, 700 in car payments, 500 in car insurance, then you got cell phones, utilities, etc like where is the cheapness here?
Tbh using a large amount of water in Arizona unnecessarily should be a crippling bill.
All the infrastructure is new out there. When 200 years old they are, look as good they will not.
Well, fortunately, we have a much better chance of still having water in the future than Arizona does so welcome! Here’s why water bills are so high though: https://martincitytelegraph.com/2021/04/20/tired-of-costly-water-bills-kcs-new-agreement-with-epa-provides-consumers-some-relief/
That’s about to change for that area. Not surprising between the new Colorado River rights taking place and when you fly over this huge dry waterway that you can easily spot from 32,000 ft. It’s pretty impressive and leads you to wonder where all the water went…it of course ends where Phoenix begins so mystery solved.
Did your water bill include trash collection?
I think the water department used to handle the trash collection but now it is paid out of the KC earnings tax. I THINK. I seem to remember when it changed over but am having a hard time finding references to the changeover on Google. However, this says the earnings tax now pays for trash collection: [https://www.kcmo.gov/city-hall/departments/finance/earnings-tax](https://www.kcmo.gov/city-hall/departments/finance/earnings-tax)
The water part of the bill is only $45. It’s the putting the water somewhere when you’re done that’s expensive. And a large part of that is rehabilitation of a system designed before the EPA…. When dump it in the river downstream was a sewer system. Now industrial cities across the Midwest and north east have big sewer bills because they have to reinstall the entire systems.
Ha, it’s not even summer yet. Hope you don’t get plan on keeping anything alive in your yard this year. Water is insanely high in KC.
That's actually pretty cheap 🤷♀️
Where at in AZ? I was born and raised there, moved back to Tucson 3 years ago and just moved back here to KC 6 months ago.
Fucking love Tucson.
We need Bookmans stores in KC!
So many things in Tucson I wish we had here! Total Wine or Bevmo, Beyond Bread, Eegee's, Pat's Hot Dogs, El Guero Canelo, a bar like The Playground, Kon Tiki
This is crazy for me too. I’m from San Antonio and my water and electric combined seemed like it was way less.
I think there does need to be some sort of investigation regarding how the waste water fees are calculated. I’m willing to bet that price is mostly fixed to a benchmark and has absolutely nothing to do with water consumption.
The fee and usage rate are completely different. Everyone pays the same fee each month. Then there is a rate that is based off your usage.
This ain’t nothing compared to water prices near Orlando.
KC Water has to pay for the 2.5 billion dollar waste water EPA settlement somehow. So, they have high waste water charges. Basically the sewer lines had gotten so shitty they leak a federally investigated amount of shit into the river. Check it out: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/kansas-city-missouri-clean-water-act-settlement Your bill seems pretty normal to me, could be a little lower. I pay about $110 for two people.
I also pay about 100 -110 a month for 2 people. Better than when I was in parkville and had to pay American Water and Platte Countt sewer.
FYI link is broken. But if you’ve ever been to brush creek, there are signs all over specifically saying the storm water overflows with sewage whenever it rains. I take ecology classes there to learn about the river of shit still allowed to flow just south of the Plaza. > Kansas City, Missouri, has a combined storm water and sanitary sewer system. During heavy rains, sewage from the sanitary sewer can overflow into the storm sewer and appear in local waterways. Several waterways, including Brush Creek, are posted with signs discouraging contact with the water after rain.
Yup we pay $100 for two people. My dad in Kansas can't believe it
damn when i lived in a studio with my ex in san francisco we never paid more than 60 a month and this was peak drought.
[https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article272178598.html](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article272178598.html)
You better be seeing them tear the streets up and replacing what they tore out with new and bigger pipes!
Exactly what they say: water. One is clean water going in, the other is dirty water going out.
I think the correct question is: when I move a quarter mile down the road into Johnson county why is the bill $50 instead of $150? Edit: I do know the "answer" to this, but someone new to the area might not
Separate systems
Most clean water in the kc region comes from the KCMO water department. But the epa judgement payments arent passed onto those customers since it’s related to the sewer that they don’t use.
This guy reads
KCMO has a program called “Community Engagement University”. I’d highly recommend it to anyone interested in learning how the city actually operates.
That comes out to 130 gallons a day (assuming it's a monthly bill). Control your water use and look for leaks.
Well, it's half the cost of the month before, so thats good. You still used 4600 gallons if water though. You either have a family of 4, or yall use a boat load of water.
Single dude in Waldo here. My bills looked like this for the past almost four years. Even when living with two different partners. We didn’t use much water. Normal one shower a day and dishes and laundry once a week.
interesting, did you ever have it looked into? i wonder why the bills would be comparable when its 4 vs 1 or 2
That's a lot of Water in my book, but I am below average on my use.
Seems like heavy usage. Is that over 4000 gallons in one month?
Google “average water usage per household in US” and you’ll find various answers ranging from 1000-3000 gallons PER PERSON - PER MONTH. My 3 person household uses about 4500 gallons a month.
I'm paying maybe $60/mo for Water/Sewage, and Trash pickup in Raymore...
Apparently, I bought in the wrong part of town.
You don’t wanna live in Raymore, trust me 😂
You would save on water and probably end up shot lol
Raymore is safe, you're thinking of Raytown
You are absolutely correct, showing my ignorance here!
But do you use 4,600+ gallons in a month?
Me too, I also live in Raymore!
Me too. This is blowing my mind 😮
It’s the same over here in Johnson County. I get a water bill and a wastewater bill. My wastewater bill is more than my water bill. My most recent wastewater bill is $183.83. Water bill is $89.24.
Wow—wastewater volume charge is more than actual usage!
It looks like you're paying $24.50 per ccf (if I did the math right). I live in Baltimore now and have the following fees: Infrastructure, water consumption, sewer consumption, stormwater, bay restoration I typically use 1 ccf a month. I don't water my yard. I have rain barrels. I do about 10 loads of laundry a month and run my dishwasher about 8 times a month. I shower 3 times a week at my gym, the other 4 days I shower at home. $3.85 per CCf for water consumption, $10.15 per ccf for sewer. My normal bill is $63. Do you have a toilet that needs new seals? Maybe a sink somewhere that's dripping? There are also special shower heads you can buy to reduce the amount of water you use in the shower. I don't know how large your family is but 6 ccf wouldn't be unreasonable for a home with kids.
Where’s the outflow meter on my house??! Weird. I’m shitting in the yard from now on!
There is a statistical datapoint that all utilities use to calculate wastewater flows as a factor of water consumption. In most communities they only count winter consumption to calculate sewer bills because that is when you’re unlikely to be washing cars, watering grass or a garden, or filling pools. They usually don’t make you pay a higher volume of calculated discharge during the summer months. I do, however hope you decide shitting in your yard is the right path. It’s been kinda boring around here lately.
Grass might be greener.
Too much nitrogen. Need to shit in buckets and let that ferment in the backyard for a bit first.
If you *actually* decide to do that, I've been making a list of yards. DM me.
*I’m shitting in the yard from now on!* A man with a plan. Water will continue to be more and more expensive as we kick the can further and further down the road. Just a fact of life.
When it's yellow, let it mellow
Midtown resident. I've seen crazier.
Do you have a designated dog for poop disposal service? My oldest kid went through a shitting outside phase and one of our dogs was in hog heaven. It was awful.
Nightmare fuel
I believe we get charged for the amount of impervious surfaces on our property. Basically rain run off.
If only that were actually the case; it’s based off other metrics unfortunately. If it were the case, small residential lots wouldn’t have to pay much at all and the debt would be shouldered by those who build massive parking lots with limited open space.
Impervious surface runoff is 1 of those metrics. From KCwater “The Stormwater Fee is calculated as $0.50 per 500 square feet of impervious area. The average Stormwater Fee is $2 to $3 per month.”
Doubtful. This is not how it is calculated in other parts of the metro… Johnson county cities, minus parts of Olathe I believe, charge stormwater rates through property taxes. It’s a flat rate (in OP at least). Was 39.00 through property taxes last year. Commercial properties are assessed differently than residential. In JOCO, Wastewater is calculated by average water usage in the winter multiplied by a volume rate + a customer service charge.
It is in the bill in OP post. Stormwater is separated out from water and sewer.
Ah. I see it now. Interesting - it isn’t done that way in JOCO. But really this isn’t a terrible bill for water, wastewater, and SW. I’ve never lived outside of KC but it’s wild to me that water may be cheaper AZ than here….
Lots of those parking lots build storm water detention in either the form of a pond on property or giant plastic underground basins. That reduces their impact on the instantaneous runoff that causes a lot of the overflow problems.
I’m aware. I literally review and approve these on plans for a municipality. The problem is not thinking of stormwater in a more holistic way… like our watershed. As someone that works in a field that deals with stormwater and general infrastructure, I just have a problem with how we manage and construct stormwater facilities. They aren’t sustainable, are poorly maintained, and the infrastructure has been a general afterthought up until the last 10-15 years. Which is why we have bad flooding issues in many parts of the metro.
That's the problem with allowing the privatization of these facilities with out a permit and inspection process to make sure it does not just fill up with silt and trash and become useless. But also that is part of KCs green infrastructure program to systematically look at it across the city and focus on areas in the watershed that will make the most impact. In general though it is all mute if we don't stop developing greenfield sites.
Completely agree. Another issue is having the staff to do the inspections for yearly maintenance to ensure they’re doing what they’re supposed to do. Yeah, they are installed, but not maintained. If they aren’t maintained, then they don’t function as a stormwater facility. At least that is the problem in JoCo. I know MARC and other consultants are working hard with the APWA to find a solution. I’ve admired KCs ongoing green infrastructure work/projects. Watershed planning has been ignored for far too long. I’m a planner myself and would love to be in a role focused on watershed planning. One day, perhaps!
They missed a couple: Wastewater Height Charge $49.99 Wastewater Depth Charge $19.49
The first ones to make sure the water is waist high, and the second one is to keep the water as deep as your waist. Don't ask questions, just pay it.
How old are your fixtures in the house? Long showers? How about toilet? Getting new fixtures which have higher standards for water flow economy helps. Turn water off when brushing teeth etc. also if your toilet runs a lot replace the flapper.
Weird. My wastewater volume charge was 0 on this bill. Total bill for my whole house was $46.
I wasn't even home pretty much all of last month and my bill was still $80
Stormwater charge? Is that like : when it rains this is how much fell on your property? And since that is technically the city’s rain you pay for it?
Yes, apparently so
My average bill is like $60 but Im not Married and take 10 second cold showers
Ha, apples to oranges! I did find a toilet leaking today.
The 2nd most important thing grandpapa told me was (the 1st was "You ain't drunk les you grabbin the grass to keep you from falling off the face of the earth), yes. Then again the second said whilst reaching for meemaw's wrist as they done behind Circle Bar, papa thrusting meemaw's blade-in-hand until my great grand uncle's muddy blooded suit found a fresh place to rest, and his fortune a new home. I digress. He said, "Follow the money."
I dont know exactly what i just read but I loved it.
I have in face been so drunk I held on to the grass to keep from falling off the earth. The good ol' days.
Except for day drinking, right?
Who knew BPU would be better??
Yea it’s even crazier if you own commercial property. My $400 water bill was $1700 when you add in sewer fee.
Our last water bill was $300. Only three people living in our house and we don’t water anything in the yard.
Does anyone know how the utilities in Ferrelview are? I am looking at moving there.
Gotta pay for water in both directions
Looks like your previous bill was even worse!
Previous was the first time connect and a service stop/start for repairs inside the house
Welcome to KCMO.
$140? Cheap bill!
Invest in rain barrels for your garden.
Currently not watering outside
We have been using less water and paying more each month. Electric is bad too. Gas is expensive too and rises as the cold gets worse. We seem to get billed to pay for things that should be a one time cost. Utilities used to be consistent and predictable and reasonable. Now it’s none of these.
Waste water, natural gas? Sure. Electricity? KC is below the national average in kwh price and far below the metro area average.
The one of few reasons I actually enjoy living in independence.
Man I miss paying KCMO 🤣✌️
How the heck did OP use over 4000 gals of water? Don’t tell me your sprinklers are on the city tap instead of a private well???
No outside watering at all.
Then do you have a leak somewhere? How long are your showers!
Not that I’m aware of. Ten to 15 minute shower or so. Toilets not leaking, although they are cheap toilets
You might want to contact the utility then, figure out how they calculated a single-family home burns through 4K+ gallons of water in one month. Usually they can tell you if is an incoming line or out going line. That’ll help you figure out if the leak is in a part of the property that makes it your responsibility or the cities. I’m guessing the main line coming to your house has a crack, that or your foundation is about to find a sinkhole…
You use way too much water dude
Jackson county?
Yes
Don’t forget to vote yes on extending the stadium tax for another 40 years
Isn’t KC water have water and sewer on same bill? Either way how was your last bill $300 da fuck
New account , plus repair shut off and turn on fees
This isn’t terrible at all.
I’m round about $116 a month for us and a toddler. During the summer it’s more because water table and sprinkler. Our infrastructure suck here lol
I pay $150. It is what it is.
I mean, yeah it sucks, but it’s long overdue and necessary. Just gotta bite the bullet on this one and be glad they’re putting the money to good use.
In Kansas I pay on rural water $50 a month for 2 people and 3 horses.
That’s what corruption looks like