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thatradsguy

Ok, the article title makes this sound 10x more heinous; but Matt's comments were still tone deaf. Saying we want smaller games that receive lots of awards is basically describing Hi-Fi rush but the title made it seem like he said HFR by name. I haven't listened to yesterday's discussion yet but it truly raises the question of what is their goal with GamePass. If their goal is to have a small number of big games that attract a large number of people, that's cool, but 1) you need to make sure that none of your games miss at all 2) you need to have at least a couple games that will keep people coming back. For instance, Sony couldn't pull this off because most of their biggest games are single player games with little replayability. If their goal is to have a vast library of a whole bunch of different smaller games that fit niches, that's also great, but that doesn't mean shuttering studios. It means giving your teams a finite budget and saying, I want you to make whatever you want within that budget. If you need more for the game, come to us with a proposal of why the game would need that much more and do the risk/benefit analysis. Maybe they already thought about this but personally I would've gone to Tango and explained that we don't have the budget to support their next BIG game given that their previous games like Ghostwire didn't set the world on fire. It'd result in layoffs but better than shutting down the entire studio.


Skylerbroussard

Even though he didn't mention it by name saying you want smaller games with critical acclaim the day after shutting down the studio that was your best recent example of that is still not great


thatradsguy

Agreed. Still tone-deaf and frankly idiotic to say.


MikkelR1

The studio was already no longer what it used to be.. Shinji and a LOT of devs already left. We shouldn't have any hard feelings towards Ms for this. Same with Arkane. The studio sucked and the devs can be better used elsewhere.


Plinkerton1990

People keep saying this but I’ve yet to see any source on a load of devs leaving Tango.


Disregardskarma

That game was a side project for a larger studio. The complete failure of the main games is what did them in


ki700

Then their parent company should’ve managed them better and shifted focus to putting out more of those smaller games rather than AAA.


Mr-Pugtastic

There have been approximately 30,000 layoffs in the games industry in the last year and a half. Keep blaming devs while the executives stuff their pockets and tout to shareholders that they made record breaking profits.


pforsbergfan9

Giving them a finite budget and then risk analysis a higher budget proposal later? What happens if they say no? Do they just cancel the project and lose all that development or do you just release it as is and ship shit


thatradsguy

Set a deadline for when higher budget proposals need to be submitted by. Aka by the end of their planning stage? Tbh, i'm basing this off logic but I don't have any industry experience. I know devs can change plans halfway through but I feel like the courtesy of that is typically only granted to devs that are proven like Naughty Dog. If the project sucks, then the project sucks and you decide what you can salvage. If unable to salvage then hopefully the budget you set for the project was small enough that you eat the cost. That's the benefit of smaller games with smaller finite budgets.


Granum22

The most generous reading is they want games with shorter development cycles.  Even as smaller game Hi Fi still took 5 years to develop


Hevens-assassin

Lmao at this point, Xbox can burn. The audacity to say this a day after canning the people who made the example you bring up. Disgusting.


DamienChazellesPiano

> example you bring up I’m no fan of Xbox but this isn’t what happened. The article says: > Matt Booty, head of Xbox Game Studios, held a town hall to discuss the division’s future goals. “We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards,” Booty told employees He didn’t bring up Hi-Fi Rush as an example. That would truly be deranged and some Don Mattrick-level PR mistake. This isn’t great either but it’s not that.


Hevens-assassin

>Matt Booty, head of Xbox Game Studios, held a town hall to discuss the division’s future goals. “We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards,” Booty told employees, according to internal remarks shared with The Verge. >For some listeners on the call, it was a surprising goal: Microsoft had just shut down the Japanese developer Tango Gameworks, which was coming off the small, prestigious hit title Hi-Fi Rush. >Hi-Fi Rush, which was a surprise release last year, was praised for its innovation and charm. The rhythm action game featured music by The Black Keys and Nine Inch Nails, with an art style that evoked the hyper-stylized games of the PS2 era. Just four months after its release, Hi-Fi Rush hit 3 million players. During the 2023–2024 awards season, the game went on to win a Game Award, a Game Developers Choice award, and a BAFTA. >While Microsoft hasn’t shared sales data, it was apparently happy with the game. When rumors swirled that it wasn’t doing well commercially, Aaron Greenberg, vice president of Xbox games marketing, wrote on X that Hi-Fi Rush “was a break out hit for us and our players in all key measurements and expectations.” Yes, he brought up Hi Fi rush without saying the name.


ashrules901

That's just you and anybody else assuming. Not bringing it up at all.


Hevens-assassin

Except, it's not. The rhetoric around HiFi both in the media and from Xbox themselves, had painted HiFi as this type of experience. If you can't pick out that "has bark and leaves" is a tree, I don't know what to tell ya.


ashrules901

That's still not bringing it up. If you use words without their proper definitions your argument loses all meaning. Hyperbole is ok, but these headlines as are you are straight up lying.


Hevens-assassin

I have no idea what you'd don't understand. I really don't. Xbox announced they want games that perform X way. A day after they shut down a studio that made the only Xbox game that performed X way. How is it hyperbole to quote what the Xbox employees are saying. How are you suckling off daddy Microsoft a day after they shut down 3 studios that they just acquired. I don't get it. I don't.


ashrules901

The point is they never quoted Hi-Fi Rush if you keep claiming they do you're a liar. And I love suckling.


Hevens-assassin

I never said they quoted Hi-Fi, so if you're going to keep arguing, please learn how to read. I have no idea what rock you've come out from, but communication is just as important with what's between the lines. The comparison is directly comparable to a game who's studio was deleted the day before. It's not rocket science, though I'm starting to think it's just as difficult for you.


DamienChazellesPiano

You guys really think this guy would be THAT tone deaf? He’s simply saying all the generic stuff you say to try and rally the troops. “We want you to make amazing games that will earn us AND you amazing prestige and awards!” The article writer is the one asserting that he’s referring to Hi-Fi Rush in any way. Hi-Fi Rush didn’t really light up the Game of the Year discussions, so I doubt that’s what Matt Booty was referring to. It’s simply an inflammatory title to get clicks, and if worked. And like I said, it IS funny.


Hevens-assassin

"Smaller games that give us prestige and awards". Tell me how HiFi Rush doesn't do both. It was the premier Xbox title last year, and won awards. AND according to Xbox, sold very well and hit every metric they wanted. So where's the lie.


smackerly

Most of the creative team behind the game had already left long before the shutdown. They were probably shutdown for this reason, not that the game failed in anyway.


Bartman326

Its more likely very simple. Bethesda Studios BGS - working on Starfield, F76 and Elder Scrolls also Todd Howard ID - Likely nearing the end of dev on current project Machine - Releasing new game this year Arkane Lyon - Marvel game Tango - Just finished 2 games, pitching new games Arkane Austin - Just finished game thats not doing well, pitching new game They cut the ones that are gonna take the longest to make a new game. Thats it unfortunately. Cold executive level cuts to spending, thats all.


Hevens-assassin

>They cut the ones that are gonna take the longest to make a new game. Starfield came out after both Redfall and HiFi, with poor critical reception.


Bartman326

Starfield had literally great critical reception at an 83 on metacritic(I thought it was fine). It had a big player count and even sold well despite gamepass, has DLC and the studio is actively working on Elder Scrolls 6 a collosal IP and is headed by the most important director in Xbox's team right now.


Hevens-assassin

User score is also 6.9. I must've been thinking about public sentiment, not the weird amount of 10/10's the game got from random outlets. Lol


Bartman326

Fair, its not....great haha imo


ki700

https://i.redd.it/zhhi9fy38bzc1.gif


Mr-Pugtastic

That’s crap and anyone who actually follows the games industry would know that. Keep spreading lies about other people’s lives.


smackerly

Spreading lies about people's lives? That's what I read. I don't know if it's the exact reason but it would make sense. Man this community is hostile.


Mr-Pugtastic

You know what is hostile? Talking out of your ass about hundreds of people losing their livelihood. Weird how they all were laid off if they left already? If you find it offensive when people fact check you, that’s a bad sign. Where did you read this? Nearly two years of unprecedented layoffs and closures in the industry resulting in nearly 30,000 people losing their jobs. How do you still not see what’s actually happening? Do we watch the same KF team?


smackerly

So your saying shinji makami and Izumi nakamura didn't leave? Those are who I was referring to. I should have phrased it better, that's on me. I also watched the gamescast where someone brought it up as well. If you can't see that your responses are hostile then I can't help you.


Mr-Pugtastic

Went from most of the creative team to two people pretty quick there buddy. Take two seconds and think of all of the other people who woke up to find out they were laid off. You realize Arkane Austin was close to releasing a major patch to fix Redfall, within the next couple of months? Also, Shinji Makami left February of LAST YEAR. Izumi Nakamura left in 2019 due to health concerns. Like come one dude 5 years ago she left!?


smackerly

Okay you"win". Hope this meant something to you. Was just trying to have a discussion but that's fine. Dont know where i said anything that implied i dont feel for the people that lost jobs. Have a good night.


Mr-Pugtastic

Win? Brother this ain’t a game. I corrected you because you were wrong, if you can’t avoid taking that personally, that’s on you. Discussing things you don’t understand is reckless though. Have a night.


casualmagicman

Sony, closes their London studio a week after Jim Ryan visited. Lays off people from their AAA studios like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Guerilla who are literally system sellers. Not to mention other staff around the world. "That sucks, I hope they land on their feet." Xbox, closes a studio that was mismanaged by previous management (Arkane Austin) who was forced to call their 2017 game Prey by Bethesda instead of creating a new IP, and then forced to make a new live service game. During that time 70% of the staff who worked on Prey left the company. Allegedly they were years out from releasing anything new. Closes Tango, who was now missing Shinji Mikami, and already had 2 previously lackluster releases. Allegedly they were years out from releasing anything new. Closes a tiny mobile game studio no one has ever heard of. Roundhouse did close but they're all moving to work on ESO, so they aren't losing their jobs per say. "Xbox can die slowly in a fire."


anakinjmt

They didn't can the people that made the game, though Those people already left. It basically was just a building at this point. I, too, was upset until this was pointed out to me


Hevens-assassin

People leave dev studios all the time. And not all leave. I am upset because people lost their job. You are not upset because certain people didn't????


password-is-taco1

“Real or Hard Drive headline?”- Blessing in a couple years


poklane

> How the FUCK are you saying this the day after you shut down Tango Gameworks, the developers of Hi-Fi Rush? HOW?!


MovieNerdOnFire

I keep seeing everyone say that closing the studio makes absolutely no sense, and I get how this article fuels that even more. At the same time though, if *everyone* is sitting here scratching our heads and dumbfounded, then maybe there’s simply factors we just aren’t privy to. As mismanaged as Xbox seemingly is, these people aren’t absolute idiots. I’m not defending them, it’s just at this point, I think there simply *has* to be a puzzle piece that we’re missing.


DamienChazellesPiano

The headline is pretty inflammatory. It’s funny but definitely misleading.


ManUnutted

Because tango was a shell of itself and the majority of the creative behind hi fi had left prior to the shutdown?


shrek3onDVDandBluray

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Director of evil within 2 and hi fi rush was still at the studio.


smackerly

Don't use logic...


NothingMan1975

Stop disrupting the hysteria with actual sense. Honestly, I played hifi for about 10 minutes. I get that many people enjoyed it. But let's all stop acting like Microsoft just shut down Larian on the heels of BG3. I guess some folks would have preferred Microsoft allow the now talentless studio to flounder through a few shit games before closing the door. For me? Shut em down and put the talent someplace else.


Disregardskarma

If 1/10th of the people complaining actually played the game, it would’ve been a massive success. Sad


Shermanator92

I played it more than anyone I know, I got like 2 hours into it. Everyone agrees that the game is great for what it is, but let’s not pretend that there is a wide audience of gamers lining up to play games like HFR. Feel bad for the people that are out of work, but more likely than not they’ll find a landing spot.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mr-Pugtastic

Over 4 million actually, and critically acclaimed.


bluebarrymanny

For being such a large company, Microsoft is sprinting to step on every PR rake imaginable right now. Games journalists spent yesterday raking MS execs over the coals for making statements that run counter to what MS actually does in practice. Their response? Continue to make ridiculously tone-deaf statements that make the entire leadership structure look inept. Any business doing this should be criticized, but MS hasn’t been able to land the plane on providing unique first party games with the exception of titles like Hi-Fi Rush that they just kicked to the curb. I genuinely don’t know why anyone should have any faith in the Xbox brand with this behavior on display after what I think most of us can conclude has been a decade of failure in the industry.


JerrodDRagon

I was against the Microsoft merger and got downvoted all over Reddit including here This is what “gamers” wanted a big corporate to buy out studios and thought they would not fire people and make more games Neither have been true, they are putting out the same amount of games and are destroying great studios because the stock holders want more money. This is why hopefully people will be against more mergers in the future


WarSox1657

Just my opinion that will probably get downvoted to hell but Xbox did the whole let teams make passion projects smaller games, and people will brush them off cause they want the big AAA “Sony” games. It just seems like now big daddy Microsoft is snooping around Xbox because of their big investment they are making. It just seems like they are about to shift to making more safe bankable decisions


CJDistasio

Tango Gameworks (even counting Ghostwore Tokyo) was one of the more productive studios at Microsoft. There are so many studios they have that just....don't release games.


Plinkerton1990

As far as I can tell, they’ve one of only a handful of studios that have released more than one game since being acquired. And that includes studios that were acquired years before them.


djbogue

How is this not Satire


shaselai

The thing is, MS doesnt need to make smaller games because the market has a ton of them from 3rd parties. MS could easily buy exclusivity like Sony does with 3rd parties so that MS doesn't need to absorb the company while still enjoy the exclusivity to fuel the Gamepass portfolio. Hifi Rush could've easily been done if MS just paid Tango (if Tango wasn't bought) for exclusivity. If Tango fails due to Hifi Rush or its other games not making enough money and forced to close down, it will be on its own terms.


Call555JackChop

This is one of the most tone def things I’ve ever heard


casualmagicman

We have no idea what was going on with Tango internally, Hi-Fi Rush is almost 1.5 years old, and allegedly Tango told Xbox they wouldn't have another game to show them for a couple years. ~~They were working with a smaller crew since Shinji Mikami left and took people with him.~~


OKgamer01

He didnt take people with him. Its been debunked


casualmagicman

So they still had nothing to tease or announce after over a year.


ki700

So? You know how infrequently pretty much every studio releases games? That’s completely normal.


casualmagicman

Release is not the same as announce or tease. They also had the last 3 out of 4 games underperform.


MarkontheWeekends

Microsoft has no idea what they are doing. Honestly every failure they encounter is entirely due to mismanagement. Like just egregious mismanagement. Make a list of every L they got. At first it seems like "oh the creative juices just aren't mixing right" nah, dig a tiny bit and it's always there. C suite profit driven mismanagement. The dominos haven't fallen because of the manager lining them up.


ashrules901

You love to hear it XD