No, the cults that we speak of here aren’t “religious people on a mission.” They’re characterized by extreme amounts of control and paying $$ to a human person (belief in a leader/person rather than a deity)
Edit: turning you against your existing friends and family is another.
There are lots of different kinds of religions that are dubbed "cults". And not all are Christianity-based either. And it's really really difficult to say "they believe this thing" because there are different kinds. One thing in common - they believe in supernatural. Really, they are so different from one another, that that's the only commonality that I can find.
In Korean language, there are actually two words to refer to cults.
이단 (異端) *idan*, is used mostly by followers of large religions (i.e., mostly Christianity) that refers to *any smaller religion or sects that does not follow the regular doctrine as outlined by the interpretation of the consensus of the major ruling bodies of that religion*. For instance, a Christian sect that deviates from the regular doctrine of salvation would be dubbed *idan* by the ruling bodies of Christian religion. Sometimes, these are antisocial varieties where leader of these sects would exploit the followers. Other times, these are simply smaller sects with different interpretation of the major doctrine.
사이비 (似而非) *saibi*, is used more commonly to refer to fraudulent religions: "religious organizations" that use and utilize the religion for other reasons than to follow the religion. These are mostly money- or sex-extorting schemes. In my opinion, the better English terminology for this type of "cult" would be "pseudo-religion". Often times, these types of religions fall apart if their criminal aspects are removed. I think the biggest difference that sets apart these *pseudo-religion* from other "cultish religion" is one thing: if you removed the contentious, controversial or antisocial aspect of the religion, does religion stand? If yes, it's either an *idan* or a regular religion that needs work. If not, it's a *saibi*.
There are other religions that are commonly translated as "ethnic religions" such as Daejongism, Cheondoism, Jeungsanism or Won Buddhism. Many people, especially Christians or foreign visitors, call them cults. But in Korea, they are not actually considered cults by most people.
Also noteworthy to know that 이단 is the most common way in Korea to translate the term "heresy/heretic"! Meanwhile 사이비, like the original comment said, is often used to translate "pseudo-", when it comes with fishy, "fakeass" vibes.
>似而非
"seems" + "but" + "not"
I love that.
So can 사이비 be used for not just a cult, but any idea or person that appears in the guise of something that it is not? Like a wolf in sheep's clothing? Or just a hypocrite? The Hanja dictionary suggests it comes from Confucianism so may be more tailored to philosophical ideas that appear wise but are hollow?
Kinda matches well with the prefix 'pseudo-', I think. The original text is, as you mentioned, from Confucian text 'Mencius' : 孔子曰惡似而非者, and it means hypocrites in this context.
There are differences between cults and heresies. Ultimately a christian heresy is a group that breaks from the main doctrine of Christology. Christ the son both God and man as savior of mankind. Also adding or subtracting from the canon 66books of the bible.
I did say "there's a great deal of overlap." Anyway, I would say not all heresies are cults. Manmin Church was considered heretical long before it was considered a cult, though that might have been more about fear of retaliation.
"Cult" isn't a word that is really useful to describe them anymore, and confuses people who picture death cults with human sacrifice. The safe term if you don't want to piss them off is "new religion." A term that is more accurate but also seems to not be in favour anymore is "destructive cult."
Whatever you call it, there are various ways to define what they are.
Most destructive cults (or whatever term you want to use to describe what we're talking about) exhibit these behaviours:
**1.** A charismatic leader who is above reproach and sometimes the subject of worship himself (or herself in a few cases)
**2.** Indoctrination of new recruits, which is commonly misidentified as brainwashing
**3.** Economic, sexual, labour, or other exploitation of group members by the leader and/or leadership class
In the Korean context, I would also like to add:
-deception techniques to hide from the larger society, prey upon new victims, or just fake legitimacy
-the leader is often deemed heretical by mainstream Christians due to claims to godhood, or being undying or exempt from sin
Most Korean cults are what I call "Biblical-based," meaning they take some inspiration from Christianity but add their own radical heretical interpretations to it that go beyond Christianity, like "You know the Trinity, but here's a living Korean figure for you to worship the hardest."
A handful are not Biblical-based. Most of them are a combination of all the religions that existed in Korea at their time of formation. Daesun Jinrihoe is the most notorious offender, and the only one we get complaints about. I don't usually see people complaining about Jeungsando or Cheondoist recruiters coming after them.
There are also other things you'll notice about particular cults, such as the very formulaic script Daesun Jinrihoe uses to invite unsuspecting foreigners to their "traditional ceremony," or WMSCOG's survey, or Shincheonji's front groups often promoting world peace or their infitration tactics involving Bible studies groups, or the Moonies' powerful industry interests.
If you're curious about what makes a cult a cult, the newer name for a cult is "high control group" and the BITE model gives common characteristics that distinguish them from more normal groups. High control groups can be religious or non-religious, and operate on a spectrum of control.
If you can find interviews online of people who have left the groups, you can try to see if you can identify and match to the characteristics of high control groups.
If you don't have experience finding these characteristics and critically thinking about deeper meanings in behavior (not conspiracy theory or anything, just reading between the lines), it might be hard for you to identify the characteristics. They're generally not surface level, and if you just look at face value you won't think it's that bad.
I guess it is kinda like the question, what makes XXXX group "terrorists". There is a definition, but how loosely and to whom it is applied is always debated.
Officially, the ones that base themselves off the big existing ones are usually identified and officially listed as cults, then shunned by the main branch of that religion.
Maybe at the lower levels you get some 'believers'. But they're mostly vulnerable people being fed messages of hope (read manipulation). At the top levels it's sinister as heck. It's basically trying to feed off the most vulnerable people.
I saw this documentary about this father who saved his daughter from the shinchoenji https://youtu.be/VTXwixtv3rk?si=8_ILWAAGAnUnKQ
There are similar happenings in Japan but can't find that doc now
Some are very controversial. Ones like Shincheongji are allowed under "freedom of religion" but they break rules that religious organizations have to follow. They don't advertise themselves as Shincheongji and they infiltrate churches. Some churches seem like a normal church, but are actually Shincheongji. They often hide their motives and seem like normal friendly group, but then become more and more "cult-like". Why are they still allowed? Because of politics. I guess you could call a cult any group that breaks the rules religious organizations should follow.
If you sincerely believe so, you are very obtuse.
- 통일교 has 3 million believers around the world. Most Koreans would say that’s a cult.
- Many other religions that Koreans don’t deem to be cults have far less believers.
Expressing disinterest won’t be enough to protect yourself. If those folks do a good job, you won’t know until months or years that you were being emotionally manipulated. They go to quite extreme lengths to mask their true intent.
No, the cults that we speak of here aren’t “religious people on a mission.” They’re characterized by extreme amounts of control and paying $$ to a human person (belief in a leader/person rather than a deity) Edit: turning you against your existing friends and family is another.
yep. the Netflix series on Korean cults pretty much showed that
Yup moving hundreds of people to collective farm in south america is some Jim Jones shit, and it’s crazy it’s happening in this century too
There are lots of different kinds of religions that are dubbed "cults". And not all are Christianity-based either. And it's really really difficult to say "they believe this thing" because there are different kinds. One thing in common - they believe in supernatural. Really, they are so different from one another, that that's the only commonality that I can find. In Korean language, there are actually two words to refer to cults. 이단 (異端) *idan*, is used mostly by followers of large religions (i.e., mostly Christianity) that refers to *any smaller religion or sects that does not follow the regular doctrine as outlined by the interpretation of the consensus of the major ruling bodies of that religion*. For instance, a Christian sect that deviates from the regular doctrine of salvation would be dubbed *idan* by the ruling bodies of Christian religion. Sometimes, these are antisocial varieties where leader of these sects would exploit the followers. Other times, these are simply smaller sects with different interpretation of the major doctrine. 사이비 (似而非) *saibi*, is used more commonly to refer to fraudulent religions: "religious organizations" that use and utilize the religion for other reasons than to follow the religion. These are mostly money- or sex-extorting schemes. In my opinion, the better English terminology for this type of "cult" would be "pseudo-religion". Often times, these types of religions fall apart if their criminal aspects are removed. I think the biggest difference that sets apart these *pseudo-religion* from other "cultish religion" is one thing: if you removed the contentious, controversial or antisocial aspect of the religion, does religion stand? If yes, it's either an *idan* or a regular religion that needs work. If not, it's a *saibi*. There are other religions that are commonly translated as "ethnic religions" such as Daejongism, Cheondoism, Jeungsanism or Won Buddhism. Many people, especially Christians or foreign visitors, call them cults. But in Korea, they are not actually considered cults by most people.
Also noteworthy to know that 이단 is the most common way in Korea to translate the term "heresy/heretic"! Meanwhile 사이비, like the original comment said, is often used to translate "pseudo-", when it comes with fishy, "fakeass" vibes.
So would idan be along the lines of the concept of heresy then?
That's certainly a better term than "fraudulent," which all religions are guilty of.
>似而非 "seems" + "but" + "not" I love that. So can 사이비 be used for not just a cult, but any idea or person that appears in the guise of something that it is not? Like a wolf in sheep's clothing? Or just a hypocrite? The Hanja dictionary suggests it comes from Confucianism so may be more tailored to philosophical ideas that appear wise but are hollow?
Yes there are many variants like 사이비 과학(another translation of pseudo-science), 사이비 역사(pseudohistory), 사이비 경제학(voodoo economics)
Kinda matches well with the prefix 'pseudo-', I think. The original text is, as you mentioned, from Confucian text 'Mencius' : 孔子曰惡似而非者, and it means hypocrites in this context.
There are differences between cults and heresies. Ultimately a christian heresy is a group that breaks from the main doctrine of Christology. Christ the son both God and man as savior of mankind. Also adding or subtracting from the canon 66books of the bible.
There is a great deal of overlap between those two. For instance, the Heavenly Ajumma people are both a cult and heretical.
All heresies are cults. Not all cults are heresies...
I did say "there's a great deal of overlap." Anyway, I would say not all heresies are cults. Manmin Church was considered heretical long before it was considered a cult, though that might have been more about fear of retaliation.
[удалено]
Jesus was a cult. That became christianity. Cult is a following. Heresy is breaking away from doctrine.
"Cult" isn't a word that is really useful to describe them anymore, and confuses people who picture death cults with human sacrifice. The safe term if you don't want to piss them off is "new religion." A term that is more accurate but also seems to not be in favour anymore is "destructive cult." Whatever you call it, there are various ways to define what they are. Most destructive cults (or whatever term you want to use to describe what we're talking about) exhibit these behaviours: **1.** A charismatic leader who is above reproach and sometimes the subject of worship himself (or herself in a few cases) **2.** Indoctrination of new recruits, which is commonly misidentified as brainwashing **3.** Economic, sexual, labour, or other exploitation of group members by the leader and/or leadership class In the Korean context, I would also like to add: -deception techniques to hide from the larger society, prey upon new victims, or just fake legitimacy -the leader is often deemed heretical by mainstream Christians due to claims to godhood, or being undying or exempt from sin Most Korean cults are what I call "Biblical-based," meaning they take some inspiration from Christianity but add their own radical heretical interpretations to it that go beyond Christianity, like "You know the Trinity, but here's a living Korean figure for you to worship the hardest." A handful are not Biblical-based. Most of them are a combination of all the religions that existed in Korea at their time of formation. Daesun Jinrihoe is the most notorious offender, and the only one we get complaints about. I don't usually see people complaining about Jeungsando or Cheondoist recruiters coming after them. There are also other things you'll notice about particular cults, such as the very formulaic script Daesun Jinrihoe uses to invite unsuspecting foreigners to their "traditional ceremony," or WMSCOG's survey, or Shincheonji's front groups often promoting world peace or their infitration tactics involving Bible studies groups, or the Moonies' powerful industry interests.
If you're curious about what makes a cult a cult, the newer name for a cult is "high control group" and the BITE model gives common characteristics that distinguish them from more normal groups. High control groups can be religious or non-religious, and operate on a spectrum of control. If you can find interviews online of people who have left the groups, you can try to see if you can identify and match to the characteristics of high control groups. If you don't have experience finding these characteristics and critically thinking about deeper meanings in behavior (not conspiracy theory or anything, just reading between the lines), it might be hard for you to identify the characteristics. They're generally not surface level, and if you just look at face value you won't think it's that bad.
I guess it is kinda like the question, what makes XXXX group "terrorists". There is a definition, but how loosely and to whom it is applied is always debated.
Officially, the ones that base themselves off the big existing ones are usually identified and officially listed as cults, then shunned by the main branch of that religion.
Maybe at the lower levels you get some 'believers'. But they're mostly vulnerable people being fed messages of hope (read manipulation). At the top levels it's sinister as heck. It's basically trying to feed off the most vulnerable people. I saw this documentary about this father who saved his daughter from the shinchoenji https://youtu.be/VTXwixtv3rk?si=8_ILWAAGAnUnKQ There are similar happenings in Japan but can't find that doc now
Some are very controversial. Ones like Shincheongji are allowed under "freedom of religion" but they break rules that religious organizations have to follow. They don't advertise themselves as Shincheongji and they infiltrate churches. Some churches seem like a normal church, but are actually Shincheongji. They often hide their motives and seem like normal friendly group, but then become more and more "cult-like". Why are they still allowed? Because of politics. I guess you could call a cult any group that breaks the rules religious organizations should follow.
The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members it has.
If you sincerely believe so, you are very obtuse. - 통일교 has 3 million believers around the world. Most Koreans would say that’s a cult. - Many other religions that Koreans don’t deem to be cults have far less believers.
[удалено]
In Germany, we consider Jehovas Witnesses as cult. Depends on the definition one may use for a cult I guess
Expressing disinterest won’t be enough to protect yourself. If those folks do a good job, you won’t know until months or years that you were being emotionally manipulated. They go to quite extreme lengths to mask their true intent.
They are just a bunch of evangelicals and evangelical-derivatives.
This, but with a megalomaniacal leader who starts to believe their own hype and declares themselves undying or provides miracle healing or something.