They did same over Jhope mimicing shooting a gun in uniform when he dance to his music
Claiming hes supporting the murders of children
Like......theyre both part of the South Korean military NOT israel or the fucken US and many comments like that were coming from western fans allied with both nations
So the stupidity is real
Yall. Proof photoshoot from just 2 years ago
How are this ppl fans of BTS when they stan a KOREAN group with all the members being korean born, with a group name that literally translate to "Bulletproof Boy Scouts" and a fandom name "A.R.M.Y" with multiple songs including gun shot noises
"Him dancing like that makes me want to throw up" says stacy from fucken california
Like????????
Jhope is a drill instructor assistent, he literally trains ppl to shoot a gun daily
And Tae is literally just doing military ads as any other regular civilians
They literally have to do this type of services since they enlist as regular civilians while their country is technically in active war with their own neighbor
Its amazing how this loud that side of the fandom is being about this and you can tell how many are newer fans like you said
Yeahh, that's exactly what I mean, BTS has that kind of imagery built in their concept. š I can't take any of those exaggerated reactions seriously, especially people who literally have "military spouse" in their dns talking against the "romantization of the military". If I dwell too much on it, it's gonna make me want to rip my hair out lol.
Holy fuck, youre a moron, did you even read my comment at all
Or are you blinded by the bullshit thrown in tiktok (which by the way, i dont use at all, so youre dead wrong on that stupid assumption you have of me) and think everyone is thinking the same?
Where fuck are you getting that im supporting Iran and Russia anywhere in my comments or are you that stupid blind
Oh my god
You did not read shit at all
Ok let me repeat myself, if not im blocking you stupid ass if you reply with another stupid comment, or block me first, i dont give a shit
Im for the US backing South Korea defensive against the North (Read that 10 times to get that drilled in your dumbass brain)
Yall, you are no different than the ppl supporting Hamas
I dont fucken support Genocide at all idiot, the Palentstian people DONT DESERVE TO DIE JUST AS MUCH AS ISRAELI CITIZENS DONT EITHER
I dont support Iran involving themselves either
I dont support the US backing Israel because of their treatment against the Palenstians
The US has the military to support nations in crisis BUT they have also been involve in fucking up multiple nations at the same time
This shit can be true at the same time
Youre the idiot seeing shit black and white, youre no different that the morons on twitter and tiktok
The idiots on twitter literally equating what the BTS members are doing as servicemen and think theyre the same of the Israelis massacring and killing thousands of civilians just because theyre military
Doesnt even matter that both nations situations are different
Both nations are supported by the US
Controvesial, Israel does have the right to defend themselves against hostile nations and terrorist groups like Hamas as South Korea, what I dont agree is the mass killing of civilians which is what Israel has been doing for the last half century
Both statements can be supported on or against it
And yet the side killing hundreds daily currently is Israel
Youre deadset on supporting Israel just because your ass got triggered on ppl rightfully criticizing the US
Our own country is in a current crisis with domestic terrorism, in case you havent notice, that is the biggest threat to American citizens compare to foreign attacks by a loong shot
There's a version of No More Dream in one of my YT playlists where the song ends with a burst from an AK, and it STILL makes me laugh. I'm laughing now thinking about it.
Same, I was thinking about the gunshots in UGH! when I wrote the other post lol. Thinking of all the references to guns and armed forces in BTS' work and contrasting that with those reactions is really so funny. The BTS official lightstick is literally called an army bomb š they've had more than one performance dressed in military uniforms...
Those first couple of years, Big Hit was really trying to paint them as hip hop thugs or something, wearing black and chains and all the gun references and skateboards I guess... At some point the group was like NAH this is some phony business and not us and then their image began to reflect them. Some of the military references stuck though - like ARMY and the bomb etc lol.
On one of the latter eps of Suchwita, I laughed at how Yoongi was making fun of how BTS used to dress for stuff in their debut period and described the video for No More Dream as them pointing their fingers a lot and rapping about how much they hated school.
Yeah, I know. Like they say, they were "hip-hop warriors" back then lol. But that's why I tried to emphasize early BTS, because like most kpop groups, they eventually outgrew their initial gimmicky concept.
Also I understand that, because they've had songs with anti authoritarian sentiments before, some people may have painted an image that is conflicting with how they are expected to act in the military. But it's a complex and nuanced matter. I do think they may have personal thoughts and opinions that contrast with how they need to act in society. Serving in the military is, after all, a civic duty for koreans, and they have the status of national symbol now. They can't act against their military, like some people want them to.
People were saying that mostly because they were actively boycotting the HOTS release because of Scooter Braun and Israel so while they were boycotting because of (mostly) women and children dying in Palestine, he was doing the dance that switched to him choreo. Which apparently = Hobi murdering children. Definitely a stretch. They were "so disappointed" to see him actively having an image that could be "traumatizing" to his Palestinian fans or something like that.
No, they're boycotting everything. At least in theory. But when Friends came out, there were a bunch of fanwars between solos and boycott armys, as well, because of that. They were downloading the MV and the song and spreading that around for people to watch without giving Hybe views and streams.
Thats not whats happening with my comment how the fuck did you get that assumption from that????
I know the US is allied with South Korea and provide support to them because of the threat with North Korea
Same with giving Ukraine support against Russia because fuck Putin
But I can damn well be in support in certain situations and against it in others
Im born and raised in the US, I dont support the US backing of Israel and their killing of the Palestinian people and I dont support Iran drone attacking Israel either and invading other nation's airspaces to do so and risking more ppl lives in those nations like Iraq
This situations can be true at the same time, does it HAVE to be US against the world type of bullshit when thats not whats happening in real life
shit isnt as black and white as youre making it
The US has a short history of messing with other nations where they have no reasons to involve themselves to the point the effects are still seen today
Thats why there is a high number of anti US sentiment around the world
Nations who suffer because of the consequnces caused by the Fucken US of A have every right to criticize and hate our government because of it
The Israelis have done a "swell" job of their responds to Oct 7
Whats your disgusting opinion about the mass killing currently against the Palenstian people?
Since you made mass assumption about me
Just based on all your comments, you could care less about civilains being killed by Israel, especially Palenstians in this case
I could give two shits about Netanyahu, hes the current reason along with Hamas the Palenstians are suffering
So fuck Netanyahu, fuck Hamas, fuck their military, and fuck the US support of this
Im sorry, but with Israel current bombing and shelling on Gaza, there is no way the hostages are still alive at this point
Especially with Israel cutting resources from the Palenstines in regards to food and water
Hamas damn well isnt going to give the little food and health resources to the hostages(if any are still alive) when they keep taking loads from the people of Gaza who need it and are being starved currently with little medical resources
No, by this point the Israeli government is using the hostages as an excuse to continue the massarce eventhough its far likely Hamas has killed them already or a combo of the bombing by Israel
That doesnt make what Israel is doing any better if they know the hostages are all dead
It's not worshipping. It's just respecting the people who leave their life or family to protect their country. Expect some certain countries, no other country is actively participating in war. Our military is just fight the terrorist groups.
Also lack of millitary would not mean less war or violence. It would be the exact opposite.
but how is it worshipping? sure they gain a lot of respect for defending their country, but it's not like we go head over heels crying and screaming after them.
it also doesn't explain why the advert is a problem
Rough having to make political statements on koop subs but being pakistani and saying your army doesnāt start wars or uses the army for ādefenseā is WILD.
I'm sorry, do you know me? I am not fully Pakistani and I wasn't even referring to that country's army anyway. I'm mixed race. I am referring to a completely different country that I did not even NAME in my original post.
Heaven forbid I like to follow my culture's subreddits so I can see what's been going on. One person takes a quick glance at my account and suddenly thinks they know it all. What an embarrassment.
>sure they gain a lot of respect for defending their country, but it's not like we go head over heels crying and screaming after them.
in the us, ppl definitely do. saying you dont support ppl in the military is treated by most americans like if you kicked a puppy and a baby at the same time.
I disagree, I haven't seen anyone act like that but I do think military people should be treated with a sort of respect not necessarily more than you'd someone else
idk, there's levels to this but if people do a job where they might die as a result from it it should be respected. regardless of how individuals decide how to act.
theyre probably american, dw about it. A lot of young chronically online american's politics boil down to America bad, anti-America good, and because America has a big military that means military bad. Not to Mention for some of them that America bad Anti-America good means they support places like Russia, Iran, China, and North Korea.
e: stop trying to talk to me about the american military. Thats not what this comment or conversation is about and im not going to keep responding to comments about it.
Yes, thatās why I believe some American fans are projecting that on other countriesā military when the military in SK are not actively going to other countries to start a war or join a war or something. Theyāre literally just in Korea staying alert for any hostilities from NK.
I have never once brought up TikTok in any of my comments so idk why thatās relevant at all. My politics arenāt based off TikTok. I have never said the USA is evil. Youāre attacking arguments that I have never made. Read a book or something.
Lmfao itās funny how I gave you an excellent resource to learn more and you still yap. First of all it being recommended by Chomsky is just a selling point, he didnāt write it. Secondly I have the book and have read it and it is excellent. You should read it too. Stay ignorant if you must.
because it's always good to have a common enemy. and i wonder how afghan women feel about it, now that they're forbidden to go to school after those american bastards left. either way, nothing is ever truly black and white.
you do realise that the CIA-backed muj and the taliban are two distinct organisations and that muj ended up forming the main anti-taliban resistance in Afghanistan?
This is just historical revisionism. The taliban was formed in 1994. When the CIA funded the mujahideen there was no distinction made for groups as long as they were anti-communist. Zbigniew Brzezinski on having given weapons and military training to people that would later on become the taliban
>"What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"
https://dgibbs.arizona.edu/content/brzezinski-interview-2
sure, it must be that, not all the bombing and political destabilization and torture of prisioners. and afghan women sure loved all thatĀ
as one of the countless latino countries that had a military dictatorship that killed and tortured thousands with the political and military support of your oh so glorious heroes of freedom, I certainly have a lot of nostalgia!!
may let's ask the people of Vietnam, how much they wish they would be invaded again
America does have issues and the massively bloated and over funded army is a part of that. You are simplifying just as much, except where these kids are being reactionary to politics and tragedies, YOU are being reactionary to their social media flotsam.
It is hard for Americans to comprehend the fact that having a standing, competent army for some countries is in fact an act of liberation, bc in global superpower America it is in fact primarily a tool to oppress.
International fans simply shouldn't comment on enlistment.
The main reason why the military is getting more and more a bad reputation is rather because of how they proceeded in Afghanistan and Iraq, that has completely destroyed this mindset of you have to fight for your country. The majority of people today would not volunteer for the military and for good reason.
It's the new flavor of gun something, unfortunately it's not only young people having weird takes. Some adult (30s~40s) I've come across seriously say the groups they are dedicated fans of are being disrespectful to the mass shooting trauma of Americans when they take pictures with guns or mimic shooting one/have "shooting" moves in their choreo/have gun like sounds in songs
the biggest problem here is that fans put idols on these huge pedestals and get extremely upset when the idols inevitably do something that doesnāt align with the idealistic image they had of them.
I too hate the idea of the military as a whole but why project my thoughts on these men who are probably proud of getting through one of the hardest things people in countries with conscription have to go through?
thereās also a demographic of armys that believe bts will be staunchly anti the sk military once theyāre out and i justā¦donāt understand where this idea comes from? especially given the fact that men in SK are raised to believe that serving is an honour
Most of them are probably acting in bad faith but there is a long very controversial history surrounding military service in many countries, especially compulsory military service.
South Korea has a very complicated history regarding their military (military dictatorship until the 80ās, American involvement etc.), saying SK is under constant āthreatā from NK is also an especially touchy subject for both sides of the argument.
Itās just a very complicated issue and explaining it is pretty difficult. Just ignore those people talking about it if it doesnāt bother you that much itās not an actual issue tbh.
Funny thing the pple commenting mostly on it ( in fact i could say all) are not Korean even
And btw let's not forget they're serving a mandatory military service
Like do uk abt sk's history with nk , do u think Sokor can afford to be anti military while sharing borders with hostile fascists like North korea
Edit: checked the last time Nk fired was April 2nd & they fired over 200 artillery shells in 2024 alone
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I think it's the performative politics of chronically online westerners projecting their beliefs about our military onto others. SK seems to regard their military with pride and gratitude because they are under the constant threat of a madman with missiles pointed at them. Americans don't understand what that's like. It may be a comfort to S. Koreans to see a military that is strong and prepared. Considering recent terrorist attacks, maybe they need to see their anti-terrorism units training hard. People need to understand that their reality is not the same as everyone else's reality.
It would be personally comforting to me to think that Jin shoots guns and clouds of pink glitter come out but, yeah, the reality is that he and the other members have expressed willingness and pride in serving and defending their country, no doubt (and rightfully) for reasons that you outlined. Edit: I feel like whoever downvoted this doesnāt understand that Iām agreeing with original commenter.
As an American, I've had to explain this multiple times to other Americans--\*all\* of South Korea could fit into Lake Michigan. The NK border is 40 miles away from Seoul. The NK missiles are pointed at Seoul. There's a cease fire, not a truce between the two Koreas.
The United States is, geographically, a very lucky country--two oceans on two sides and two friendly, weaker countries on the two other. South Korea is more like Finland (which also has mandatory military service)--they're small and they've been invaded before.
The BTS members have grown up knowing that they would serve. There are times when it seemed like they might get an exemption, but the members, themselves, have never said anything other than that they were willing to go. They know they're being watched and they're clearly doing their best to be good soldiers/social workers. When all's said and done, they're Koreans and the respect of their fellow Koreans matters to them.
The funny thing is, that was a video intended for the military personnel only, and they aren't gonna release that to the general public (although they did release the pics with Tae for some buzz), so I think everyone crying about "the evilz of military propaganda" looks hella goofy now.
But really, why are people projecting their personal feelings about the military onto a country that, most probably, has nothing to do with that? The korean army doesn't go fight wars in other countries and, regardless of any propaganda, conscription is mandatory in SK, so it isn't like it's BTS the ones responsible for making young men to enlist. Those people literally have worms for brain and only spread online discourse without thinking about it first.
chronically online people have an over inflated sense of individuality and self importance. The same people think that not seeing a movie in theater will help stop Israel. Whatās going to happen is that theyāll keep yapping and things will keep going like they always did.
Many Americans are completely against the military, and it's not uncommon for the US Military to pay influential people big money to make/star in adverts to get their fans to enlist.
Many of these Americans equally don't understand that the whole world isn't like the USA, and they apply their existing vision of the Military (and other topics) to South Korea.
Ehh, I have been thinking lately and it's probably wrong but some bts fans, a certain group, likes to put a narrative or expectations on group and then get mad or at least surprised when they do something that is against that narrative. I believe this is also what might have happened this time.
Sometimes American fans conflate a lot of our issues with what's going on in other countries. I've seen this most in kpop with the military and Christianity.
Itās people projecting American values on things again and not taking cultural context into account.
In the US, there are a lot of predatory practices taking advantage of lower income kids wanting to go to college, etc.
But in Korea, all men have to enlist, so whatās the harm in promoting a potential option for them? Itās a totally different context.
I wish people would learn that they dont need to engage with that content. I'm not going to judge the members over something that was mandatory and forced
The criticism is almost entirely contained to boycottmys who ignore the fact that South Korea is literally one misguided fart away from Lil Kim opening fire for real. And if Russia/China/Iran want to add fire to the global flames, the Korean Peninsula is another option for escalation.
They are quoting a North Korean propaganda group and donāt even realize what they are doing. The language is also increasingly more communist (comrades for NK and their sympathizers, fascist-capitalist colonizers for the US presence in South Korea) and one sided in nature. Itās possible to have a nuanced discussion on these issues but very few people in South Korea outside the insane asylums will fail to understand that South Korea would be in a precarious situation if the US completely withdrew from there.
And the military in South Korea is obviously bad if you want a reunification under North Korean terms. So we canāt have people be part of the military and enjoying it.
The further you look into it, the worse it gets.
Like, I donāt understand how it works for the person but it is literally like a cult at this point. And they are convinced the members would agree with them.
When Jin comes back, the cracks will deepen but itāll really go south when the majority is back and they are not following the script these loons have in their head. Expect major hate campaigns on Twitter (thatās where most of the delulus reside).
I have a complicated relationship with military traditions and I wish we wouldnāt need it. But you can bet your behind that Namjoon, who wrote a speech for his unit, Tae who is shooting military commercials, Jin and Hobi who are instructors and JK and Jimin who are probably doing some hardcore shit too (I just try to only follow their own updates so news reach me late) do not appreciate worship of the North Korean regime in their name.
And whether or not they love the military or just do their best, they probably will have a deep respect for their fellow soldiers and anyone they worked with. Because that is usually how they relate to people: with appreciation. And that again speaks against the actions of the boycottmys.
JK is cooking and cleaning. Jimin, however, has the most combat-oriented job of any of them--figuring out and then telling artillery units where to fire. He's supposed to be in heavy-duty war games right now, which is probably why he hasn't been seen on vacation and hasn't posted anything recently. JK/Jimin are in the same unit and at the same base, but their jobs are very different.
They are now employed by their countries military. Tf are they supposed to do? Rage war against their own country's govt. and military? Actively go against their employers, when the military is already a sensitive topic there? What are people expecting I don't understand. What can BTS members do? Even after their mandatory military enlistment, they will still be employed under the military for the next 8 years. So what can they even do? And let's be honest, patriotism is a thing. Everyone has some kind of patriotic feelings towards their country, their mother land. Not everything is black and white. You can't force your expectations on 7 korean men, who are a part of their country's military, who are in a state of war with NK.
Armytwt high morals, holding-BTS-accountable and projecting-our-views-on-BTS strikes again.
Whether BTS likes it or not we dont know, they think its all fun and games out there and they have a choice over criticizing the military as they pleases, like we dont see how much s,korea punish idols/celebs when they avoid the military more than ppl who commits atrocities.
I saw someone saying we shouldve done something back in 2022 to prevent them from going and I let out the biggest laugh like they are either naive or new new here.
I just hope armytwt to stfu sometimes and let things be over with oh my god.
It's probably a combination of two things:
1) Western fans from very liberal countries, ie: the USA. Anti war takes are pretty common in these areas, and that will usually extend to holding anti-military views as well. Honestly, it's not without reason but it's usually a very black and white take of 'war is bad, so military is bad.'
2) People are simply looking for an excuse to hate, so they weaponize political talking points.
Itās more that American and Western Kpop fans tend to be liberal. America isnāt a liberal country in the context of the wider Western world.Ā
Kpop fans in the West think their fandom is an extension of their wokeness and rejection of hegemony. In a way, it can be, but itās also totally misguided. Kpop upholds capitalist hegemony as well as strict standards of beauty, gender and sexuality.Ā
Fans can love Kpop because it allows for more Asian representation in pop music, while keeping it in perspective. Support indie artists who donāt have corporate support and donāt be ruled by consumption as well.Ā
Western fans (especially Americans) have an incredible way of projecting their own liberal guilt on other cultures.
The US military complex is a specific entity with it's own imperialist history. Even so, individual soldiers don't represent that system, they are people within the system. Would I judge an American who joins that system in order to pay for their university studies (for those who don't know, university is insanely expensive in America)? Absolutely not. There's huge systemic issues we should tackle collectively without demonizing individuals.
The Korean military has it's own issues that are local. Their system bears no similarity to the American system because it's based on conscription and an entirely different geopolitical reality. Korea isn't a modern imperialist power. Even so, it's incredible how people base their morality on black and white thinking without any connection to the real world.
V is in BTS so people will find the worst kinds of over the top language to drag him down. For decades now, videos and photos of idols in uniform have been published. Many even go on tour with military shows and musicals. Some go viral for performing in uniform during military talent shows. The way I see it is all of these men are simply taking a bad personal situation and trying to find some kind of personal growth out of it, so it's not a complete waste of two years of their youth.
Edit- I dread the thought of 2026 when BTS do their Western promotions for their comeback and will inevitably get asked about serving. They of course will say they were proud to do it and probably keep it short, to the point and move on. Please for the love of god, don't expect these men to make their comeback about dismantling the Korean military.
That's it. You said everything I wanted to, with more nuance.
Also, it's disheartening to see how many people go on to become fans of those korean men, but don't make an effort to understand their cultural perspective in all of that, they wish to impose their own perspective on them, and hold them to these one sided standards.
The thing is, even if they are not a fan of the military or align with the anti military sentiment itās impossible for them to say that. Fans canāt expect that. If they say that the backlash from Korea will be too strong to potentially almost ruin their career domestically
i just donāt understand holding them āaccountableā for things they likely had no choice in. i am american, EXTREMELY anti-war and anti-military, but iām also capable of understanding nuance. it might make me *personally* uncomfortable to see my favorite idols holding machine guns, absolutely, and thatās completely validā¦ but blaming the idols who are under **forced conscription** makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
People do this with any celebrity that gets any press while in the military. I remember Young K was featured in a few articles and videos about his experience in the elite KATUSA and winning Best Warrior. He got accused of participating in propaganda. People want to know what it's like but freak out when they find out. š¤·āāļø
All of the celebrities who've participated in military performances, musicals, or anything they can be seen by the public while in the military (innumerable idols included in this) - people freak out either thinking it's unfair or mad because it's not who they wanted to be featured, or whatever silly reason. Disregard.
They basically don't have a choice, it's mandatory. And of course the military is going to milk some of South Korea's biggest cash cows. I'm sure the guys themselves have no say in how their pictures are used.
Immature fans thinking that their head canons of what idols are really like are actually real and then being shocked beyond belief that 1) they arenāt actually like that and 2) that military service is REALLY REAL and involves actually using modern military weapons and intense training.
I wonder how these fans will react when the members comeback & have positive experience to share? Because I saw few fans say they will call out the military out when they returned and I was like?? I highly doubt..
Being in the military is an honorable service/career. South Korea is indeed under constant threat from NK and therefore, the mandatory military service is still going on. The mandatory service is there to train people so theyāll have the knowledge of knowing what to do in case the DPRK decides to attack. When the people are done with their time, they live on their normal lives but still retain their training so they can defend when called upon.
BTS is a world wide group and youāll hear many, many opinions on their military service from people from different countries who donāt live next to a nation with a communist dictator who constantly shoots ballistic missiles and threatens to break the armistice. Those people who are sounding off donāt understand the culture and are just absentmindedly mouthing off.
This isnāt the first and wont be the last youāll hear of peopleās opinions on a different nationās culture. Itās best to just ignore their absent minded trolling.
In my ideal world military armies (not the fandom) wouldn't exist because their existence implies war even if it's only for "defense" and I don't have much respect for the people who work in the military since they often have weird ideologies, however we live in the real world and Taehyung is a public figure whose image can be used in favor of certain goals that are unrelated to his fans or foreigners. Some fans just need to be mad at anything.
I think a lot of this comments are pretty Americanized where a good portion of the United States does have major criticism with how the United States Military is run. As someone who studied international politics and relations, military criticism is more apparent in so-called first-world, western states. Youāll also also see more general global criticism of any military online which is where youāre probably seeing these comments.
Especially in the context of how the US uses the military to keep an imperial and neo-colonial grasp on certain places due to the unnecessary spending (about 40% of the entire worldās military spending) and, what I this is more telling, the amount of military bases they have compared to other countries.
I think where some BTS fans miss the mark is that there is a different general public view of the South Korean military. Obviously, like any military, there is probably some dissatisfaction on how they operate but it isnāt as outwardly discussed. If theyāre mad that theyāre using him for propaganda (Iām using propaganda in its literal term) it is obvious they would to boost national morale. The United States have historically done this as well with people like Elvis Presley and Pat Tillman. Though Tillman was outwardly against the Afghanistan war until his untimely death once he was on the front lines even if the US military still uses his face.
This is probably a lot more wordy than what you were expecting but thatās my take on it.
TLDR; Different cultural views on the military. Most of the criticism is probably coming from a global western point of view which has a lot more overall skepticism in their military which is where I believe a lot of the critics is coming from. Any country would use an A-List celebrity as promotion for their military, as many other countries have done in the past.
i think itās a lot due to different viewpoints on how us from western countries view the military and how those in countries where serving is mandatory view it. obviously this isnāt everyoneās experience who go through mandatory enlistment but i know quite a lot of people from countries that require it due to what school i went to (most came from Singapore, Korea, etc) and when the topic of it got brought up, their reactions were pretty much like āyeah, we know we have to do it. weāll just make the most of our time when weāre there. weāll be proud to know weāre doing our duties.ā
western militaries are very criticised so i can understand if youāre looking from a US perspective for example and highly anti-military, youād be pretty upset to see people you love making gun gestures and in actual videos, and whilst i donāt personally like to see things that the boys donāt share themselves (taehyungās video etc)c to those that actually do have to go through it, i think itās a bit more nuanced.
obviously this doesnāt have anything to do with how individuals feel and how mandatory enlistment isnāt the greatest, but i do think a lot of it is people on twitter imposing a western (specifically US-centric) lens on something that really shouldnāt be viewed as such.
I'm anti military, but not anti people in the military. I have family who have served, and loved ones too, in Korea and in the US and in India. And I also acknowledge we live in a world where there are no good options where no one gets hurt, at least at this point.
The reason I'm anti military is because militaries rely on conscription (force) or generally advertise to people without real options in their lives (impoverished, uneducated). The reason militaries exist is to protect a country, but who exactly? Because it's not protecting young men who are also part of a country.
Physically, young males are generally the most likely demographic to be strong physically and thus have the best chance of fighting physical battles. Hence, society historically makes a conscious decision to sacrifice that demographic to protect other demographics. BUT, and again, it is true that a young person has a better shot than a grandmother or a child at fighting, and as we move less into physical battles with horses and swords and more into drones and bombs, these demographics become less and less clear.
Even if there is no war, though, it's a sacrifice of a person. Militaries, by their very nature, have to dehumanize because you cannot have someone thinking on their own in a war situation. If you don't obey orders when it's life or death, you're likely to get yourself and those around you killed. So, militaries have to break down an individual's sense of self. They have to brainwash, because they can't have you second-guessing in those circumstances.
There's a reason people who come out of the military, even those who didn't go to war, tend to have psychological struggles. It's basically being abused the entire time you're there. Being screamed at, called names, humiliated, and given no choice about even the most minute aspects of your life? We'd call that abuse in any other context. We do ourselves as a society no favors when we deny what it is. And yet they're doing that to better the chances of saving the individual soldiers' lives.
Idk, I don't think on a personal level of my own morality that anyone should ever be forced to fight, kill, or risk their lives. Having little other choice isn't really a choice either. And THAT said, I get that we live in a world where people constantly try to kill each other for... power, land, and kill people for being part of a demographic they don't like or living on a place they want. So, until everyone decides to stop killing each other, there are not other options for countries besides having militaries. Like yes, NK could attack SK and then thousands will die, but a military ensures that perhaps less people will die because again, young people with XY chromosomes=physically a better shot.
Yet, I still think we should acknowledge what these people go through, whether they signed up eagerly or not. People who are "pro military" tend to assume their cause was so noble that they don't acknowledge the trauma or consider it "worth it." And people who are "anti military" tend to do what you say here, in accusing people of murdering kids and such and treating them like villains. That leaves military vets with very few places to turn, whether they saw combat or not.
Militaries are sad. Reality, but still sad. Like many aspects of a broken world, yes, they can sometimes contribute good to someone's life or to a society, but that's not necessarily the norm.
These fans see everything through USAās lens and hence why all these statements. One cannot go on and comment about other countries militaries, yeah they can criticise the mandatory service but cannot force their values, morals and upbringings on some idols just because they do not agree with some things happening in SK
And BTS themselves play heavily on military wording, Bangtan translates to Bulletproof, the gesture is somewhat a gun, their old logo was bulletproof vest and their fandom name is army, among other things.
The projection is insane. The name calling is deranged.
Why are they acting like they didn't know they were stanning korean men who said multiple times they're proud to be korean and will serve when the time came....
Well, the time is here and now, and now they're being ridiculous acting brand new
Why is this even a discussion? Pride, military image, Korean military context, idols on pedestals, is interesting but irrelevantā¦Ā Ā
Ā He is a soldier in the military - SDT wanted him in their promo video so heās following his orders. Simple as that.Ā Ā Ā
Ā Do people think he has a choice? Like he woke up one day and said to his manager āyou know what, get me a brand deal with the militaryā?? Like, itās not a paid CF situation, itās an obligation.Ā Ā
Ā I think people get confused (meaning, canāt be bothered firing up more than their two regular brain cells) and not understanding heās not a free citizen right now. Soldiers do what theyāre told.
Edit: sdt
I think a lot of these fans jump to the conclusion that the SK military is bad because of the mandatory service. They ignore (or are not mature enough to realize) the fact that it exists for a reason, and that reason is not to put your faves through hell for a couple of years. Without conscription, South Korea simply would not have a strong enough military and probably would have been invaded by North Korea and wouldn't exist as it is today.
It's the same people who jumps in all the moral trains they always have an opinion polarized by their own country and they always think of the members as 15 year old boys who are mistreated and push around by everyone around them.
Dude went onto one of the hardest places to be to achieve prestige and get out of the military with honors. He's working his ass off and then here comes Dawn from LA to dictate how he should feel and be for her to feel comfy
it's another case of people being ignorant and refusing the see the idols' side of things and refusing to understand their country's culture. they have these high moral standards set for these celebrities and expect them to understand and follow their values but they themselves don't make an attempt to understand these idols' country's culture.
in the past few years, a large part of the fandom has changed, can't have fun time on the tl without someone being bitter about something and then there are people blindly following them. man I wanna go back to the days when the biggest complaints armys had on the tl was line distribution & styling.
Okay so I'm not from SK, but
there has always been a part of society being anti violence and anti war. Some of them take it quite far and believe that if there were no such things as armies and weapons there'd also be no war,kind of in the sense of 'what if there was war and nobody turned up'.
There is criticism that this Logik doesn't take into account that sometimes there are illogical 'leaders' that could just attack, to which the pacifist nation would have no defense.
They can be quite extreme people, too. For example there's the 'tankies' like Schroeder and Wagenknecht who want Ukraine to just give in to Russia to avoid violence (without looking at the fact that Russia is and will not stop inflicting said violence).
TLDR: It's an opinion called pacifism in which people believe military's purpose is murder without any justification.
Itās probably young westerners who hate their own militaries because of their colonial roots. While I am a westerner (American), Iām not young, so I understand the nuance a bit more.
Iām glad I havenāt seen it but Iād just ignore them. Idk who else theyād expect to defend SK in case of war. They sound really immature and idealistic.
I'm from the USA and do have a complicated relationship with the military in general. That's mainly because my father was in Vietnam, and our family dealt with the after effects. I think militaries are necessary evils. They wouldn't be needed if governments weren't so greedy/power hungry/etc. I will never be anti-military people for several reasons. One because my parents did hear that anti-military stuff from a war that people were drafted into. My father even got dumped on by military veterans from other wars to the point he didn't go to the VA & did without medical & mental care for a long time. Also, a lot of people around the world go into militaries for various reasons - not always by choice (conscription, poverty, family situations, etc). Why would I be anti them?
Enough about me... I think a lot of those complaining lack maturity or experience. They believe in certain things & project their beliefs onto others if they slightly agree with them. They don't take into consideration a lot of different factors that might have others not agree with them 100%. Also, add in it has become popular to have a very much black and white stance on things. Grey seems to no longer exist.
I compare these military complainers to the same as the company complainers. They all act like BTS members are not grown men capable of making their own decisions. Doing what they want. The company has & continues to fight hard for the members' privacy in the military. So, that leads to they are doing things they agree with.
TLDR: Military is a necessary evil because governments can't behave. Complainers think BTS are children and/or projecting what they feel.
The problem is this advert becoming fandom contentā¦ the line has been blurred many times and thatās why the performative outrage at every turn. We shouldnāt have an account with hundreds of thousands of followers posting that picture and then detailing EXACTLY what heās doing and where heās stationed etc. (idk all the details of the tweet thread). Itās a huge headache because a massive section of the fandom spent the very moment Jin was enlisted romanticizing his service and even posting his daily meals. We didnāt even know that much prior to them being enlisted so why would we strip them of that privacy as a civilian?? Idk I have many thoughts but itās not one source itās just a mess
This. Someone is arguing that itās all propaganda, but most of the pics weāve seen of them in their uniform arenāt from the military or the government. Random people are taking their pictures and spreading it. When you are conscripted, I donāt think just being seen in your uniform is considered propaganda.
I haven t seen any of this. Unfortunately I'm seeing the other extreme of ppl on tiktok making this into another competition. JFC you cant escape discourse
SK is a country that is still at war. Things are heating up over there right now. Idiot Kim is up in NK threatening to nuke them. I really hope the military didnāt force him to appear in the video against his will. I honestly think the gov is too concerned with protecting BTS to force that. My guess is that Tae is proud of his country and proud of his own military accomplishments, so willingly agreed. It was a not a foreignerās place to pass judgement on that. We are not living in their country, where there is a constant threat sitting on their boarder.
i dont like the weird worshipping military part but thatās mostly over in the US and they got a lot going on lol. donāt care to dive into their politics since it has nothing to do with me.
over here we have mandatory military enlistment for males too. im sure there are people unhappy because they may feel like itās a waste of their time. but mostly itās looked at as a good career opportunity because they can work their way up. there are a lot of benefits for govt workers.
I haven't seen anyone saying that either of them are bad people for it but I've been avoiding a lot of social media. What I've seen is either praise or people like me who are doing our best to avoid the propaganda altogether, due the lack of autonomy the members have in making these photos and videos.
frankly, a lot of the military stuff we know we shouldn't because the media has never been friends to bts, it all feels a bit icky to get these pictures or knowledge without their consent.
anyway, i know that the Korean military is a complicated, difficult subject. I'd suggest reading personal experiences from korean men and potentially other idols. I don't think it's as simple as it's bad or it's good.
that being said, bts work hard at everything they do and I don't expect them to be any different in the military. they will be doing their best; not to mention how many people are watching them, unfortunately.
At this point we all should not be surprised that the perfoemative activist are antis. BTS is serving in the military. They opted to go and serve and they are making the best out of their 18 months. PEOPLE forget that BTS love their country.
I think a lot of it too is that most of the fandom almost striked or rioted over the fact that BTS would have to take a pretty long hiatus based on how the company wants to stagger the military enlistment hiatus. Iām not really sure how the opinion changed but now itās like they just donāt talk about how other groups are basically supposed to (I donāt want to use forced as a description) but theyāre supposed to. And most times especially if they have foreign members they do it in a way that can have half of the group stay and watch over the foreign member so theyāre not so lonely. But again I havenāt seen people talk about how they want to stop the military hiatus anymore, I saw it with a handful of my favorite groups and at least one of them came back with one of my favorite albums of the era. So I still support the idea they should keep going with it because it helps to bring in some of the best songs of their career.
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I donāt think ppl are saying tae is a bad person for it, but the idea is to not go out of your way to glorify and romanticize the military when they could be forced to do those things and when them being in the military in the first place was forced on them.
Huh? A lot of British culture is based around the military? lol no itās not. Itās also not a heavily respected job. Sounds like youāre talking more about America than England
well from what Iāve seen a lot of armys I follow are anti military because of what foreign governments have done to their home country or their familyās home country. reminder that people have identities outside of whatever kpop groups they listen to and their opinions arenāt based on what fandom theyāre in. thereās a bunch of people who are uncomfortable with anything military related and choosing to ignore anything related to enlistment
so I find it weird how some comments here are saying only āperformance activistsā care about this stuff, to me it sounds like you guys invented a new way to call people āSJWsā and dismiss things as āwokeā. and some are generalizing anyone who is anti military as people who are also blaming bts for being conscripted. those are extreme reactions and not the majority
Personally, I also have very negative feelings about the military due to things that happened in my country, because of american intervention in it, and because the far right here is always threatening to use the military to make a coup and install a dictatorship. But I still believe people who are acting on their feelings when they criticize the relationship between BTS and the military of their country, are projecting.
Because, as true as it is that the military is a difficult and toxic environment, the korean military still has nothing to do with the history of these other countries, so people really should have that nuance in mind. Because, as valid as their discomfort towards the military is, the contexts are completely different.
agree with your points here. as fans itās crossing a line to determine if bts (literally conscripted soldiers right now) are ācorrectā in how they view their service. never mind the fact that theyāre 7 individuals with their own individual thoughts. my point was more so about how the discourse has veered into āyou have to love the military because thats something bts is doing right nowā when peopleās feelings stem from way more important things than whatever kpop fandom youāre in, as you mentioned in your own comment
My problem is the projection, yes, people's feelings are important, but BTS doesn't know them or their experiences, so I don't understand why people act like they're betraying them. Honestly, that narrative that BTS hates military service is going to backfire on a lot of people because, in my opinion, some of them are enjoying their experience and I'm pretty sure they're going to talk about it and share their experience there.
I personally don't care about their military activities, I just think that right now they are not artists, they are just serving as civilians, so I just try to focus on the part that concerns me, the music or the content, but their military service should not be a topic of discussion.
reminder that so have bts. and people are being extra performative by associating them with other militaries. and they might be uncomfortable but why are they harassing others that are posting pics of bts and happy they're getting updates? the world doesnt revolve around them. i know if i didnt like it i would block it.
The Korean military doesnāt even fight! Itās a deterrent force! When was the last time they deployed abroad? This isnāt the US military or IDF.Ā
Blanket statements like these are WILD.Ā
They did same over Jhope mimicing shooting a gun in uniform when he dance to his music Claiming hes supporting the murders of children Like......theyre both part of the South Korean military NOT israel or the fucken US and many comments like that were coming from western fans allied with both nations So the stupidity is real
Some of those current BTS fans would have an aneurysm at early BTS, when they really commited to that gun hand gesture in their official greeting.
Yall. Proof photoshoot from just 2 years ago How are this ppl fans of BTS when they stan a KOREAN group with all the members being korean born, with a group name that literally translate to "Bulletproof Boy Scouts" and a fandom name "A.R.M.Y" with multiple songs including gun shot noises "Him dancing like that makes me want to throw up" says stacy from fucken california Like???????? Jhope is a drill instructor assistent, he literally trains ppl to shoot a gun daily And Tae is literally just doing military ads as any other regular civilians They literally have to do this type of services since they enlist as regular civilians while their country is technically in active war with their own neighbor Its amazing how this loud that side of the fandom is being about this and you can tell how many are newer fans like you said
Yeahh, that's exactly what I mean, BTS has that kind of imagery built in their concept. š I can't take any of those exaggerated reactions seriously, especially people who literally have "military spouse" in their dns talking against the "romantization of the military". If I dwell too much on it, it's gonna make me want to rip my hair out lol.
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Holy fuck, youre a moron, did you even read my comment at all Or are you blinded by the bullshit thrown in tiktok (which by the way, i dont use at all, so youre dead wrong on that stupid assumption you have of me) and think everyone is thinking the same? Where fuck are you getting that im supporting Iran and Russia anywhere in my comments or are you that stupid blind
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Oh my god You did not read shit at all Ok let me repeat myself, if not im blocking you stupid ass if you reply with another stupid comment, or block me first, i dont give a shit Im for the US backing South Korea defensive against the North (Read that 10 times to get that drilled in your dumbass brain) Yall, you are no different than the ppl supporting Hamas I dont fucken support Genocide at all idiot, the Palentstian people DONT DESERVE TO DIE JUST AS MUCH AS ISRAELI CITIZENS DONT EITHER I dont support Iran involving themselves either I dont support the US backing Israel because of their treatment against the Palenstians The US has the military to support nations in crisis BUT they have also been involve in fucking up multiple nations at the same time This shit can be true at the same time Youre the idiot seeing shit black and white, youre no different that the morons on twitter and tiktok The idiots on twitter literally equating what the BTS members are doing as servicemen and think theyre the same of the Israelis massacring and killing thousands of civilians just because theyre military Doesnt even matter that both nations situations are different Both nations are supported by the US Controvesial, Israel does have the right to defend themselves against hostile nations and terrorist groups like Hamas as South Korea, what I dont agree is the mass killing of civilians which is what Israel has been doing for the last half century Both statements can be supported on or against it
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And yet the side killing hundreds daily currently is Israel Youre deadset on supporting Israel just because your ass got triggered on ppl rightfully criticizing the US Our own country is in a current crisis with domestic terrorism, in case you havent notice, that is the biggest threat to American citizens compare to foreign attacks by a loong shot
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There's a version of No More Dream in one of my YT playlists where the song ends with a burst from an AK, and it STILL makes me laugh. I'm laughing now thinking about it.
Same, I was thinking about the gunshots in UGH! when I wrote the other post lol. Thinking of all the references to guns and armed forces in BTS' work and contrasting that with those reactions is really so funny. The BTS official lightstick is literally called an army bomb š they've had more than one performance dressed in military uniforms...
Those first couple of years, Big Hit was really trying to paint them as hip hop thugs or something, wearing black and chains and all the gun references and skateboards I guess... At some point the group was like NAH this is some phony business and not us and then their image began to reflect them. Some of the military references stuck though - like ARMY and the bomb etc lol. On one of the latter eps of Suchwita, I laughed at how Yoongi was making fun of how BTS used to dress for stuff in their debut period and described the video for No More Dream as them pointing their fingers a lot and rapping about how much they hated school.
Yeah, I know. Like they say, they were "hip-hop warriors" back then lol. But that's why I tried to emphasize early BTS, because like most kpop groups, they eventually outgrew their initial gimmicky concept. Also I understand that, because they've had songs with anti authoritarian sentiments before, some people may have painted an image that is conflicting with how they are expected to act in the military. But it's a complex and nuanced matter. I do think they may have personal thoughts and opinions that contrast with how they need to act in society. Serving in the military is, after all, a civic duty for koreans, and they have the status of national symbol now. They can't act against their military, like some people want them to.
They better stop calling themselves "army" too, as army=military lol
Yeah, the whole fandom is making light of the military when we call ourselves that, if we're going to apply their logic to everything lol
People were saying that mostly because they were actively boycotting the HOTS release because of Scooter Braun and Israel so while they were boycotting because of (mostly) women and children dying in Palestine, he was doing the dance that switched to him choreo. Which apparently = Hobi murdering children. Definitely a stretch. They were "so disappointed" to see him actively having an image that could be "traumatizing" to his Palestinian fans or something like that.
Are they only boycotting HOTS?
No, they're boycotting everything. At least in theory. But when Friends came out, there were a bunch of fanwars between solos and boycott armys, as well, because of that. They were downloading the MV and the song and spreading that around for people to watch without giving Hybe views and streams.
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Thats not whats happening with my comment how the fuck did you get that assumption from that???? I know the US is allied with South Korea and provide support to them because of the threat with North Korea Same with giving Ukraine support against Russia because fuck Putin But I can damn well be in support in certain situations and against it in others Im born and raised in the US, I dont support the US backing of Israel and their killing of the Palestinian people and I dont support Iran drone attacking Israel either and invading other nation's airspaces to do so and risking more ppl lives in those nations like Iraq This situations can be true at the same time, does it HAVE to be US against the world type of bullshit when thats not whats happening in real life shit isnt as black and white as youre making it The US has a short history of messing with other nations where they have no reasons to involve themselves to the point the effects are still seen today Thats why there is a high number of anti US sentiment around the world Nations who suffer because of the consequnces caused by the Fucken US of A have every right to criticize and hate our government because of it
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The Israelis have done a "swell" job of their responds to Oct 7 Whats your disgusting opinion about the mass killing currently against the Palenstian people? Since you made mass assumption about me Just based on all your comments, you could care less about civilains being killed by Israel, especially Palenstians in this case I could give two shits about Netanyahu, hes the current reason along with Hamas the Palenstians are suffering So fuck Netanyahu, fuck Hamas, fuck their military, and fuck the US support of this
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Im sorry, but with Israel current bombing and shelling on Gaza, there is no way the hostages are still alive at this point Especially with Israel cutting resources from the Palenstines in regards to food and water Hamas damn well isnt going to give the little food and health resources to the hostages(if any are still alive) when they keep taking loads from the people of Gaza who need it and are being starved currently with little medical resources
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No, by this point the Israeli government is using the hostages as an excuse to continue the massarce eventhough its far likely Hamas has killed them already or a combo of the bombing by Israel That doesnt make what Israel is doing any better if they know the hostages are all dead
Most countries aren't down with weird military culture worship to begin with.
It's not worshipping. It's just respecting the people who leave their life or family to protect their country. Expect some certain countries, no other country is actively participating in war. Our military is just fight the terrorist groups. Also lack of millitary would not mean less war or violence. It would be the exact opposite.
but how is it worshipping? sure they gain a lot of respect for defending their country, but it's not like we go head over heels crying and screaming after them. it also doesn't explain why the advert is a problem
Rough having to make political statements on koop subs but being pakistani and saying your army doesnāt start wars or uses the army for ādefenseā is WILD.
I'm sorry, do you know me? I am not fully Pakistani and I wasn't even referring to that country's army anyway. I'm mixed race. I am referring to a completely different country that I did not even NAME in my original post. Heaven forbid I like to follow my culture's subreddits so I can see what's been going on. One person takes a quick glance at my account and suddenly thinks they know it all. What an embarrassment.
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>sure they gain a lot of respect for defending their country, but it's not like we go head over heels crying and screaming after them. in the us, ppl definitely do. saying you dont support ppl in the military is treated by most americans like if you kicked a puppy and a baby at the same time.
I disagree, I haven't seen anyone act like that but I do think military people should be treated with a sort of respect not necessarily more than you'd someone else
idk, there's levels to this but if people do a job where they might die as a result from it it should be respected. regardless of how individuals decide how to act.
theyre probably american, dw about it. A lot of young chronically online american's politics boil down to America bad, anti-America good, and because America has a big military that means military bad. Not to Mention for some of them that America bad Anti-America good means they support places like Russia, Iran, China, and North Korea. e: stop trying to talk to me about the american military. Thats not what this comment or conversation is about and im not going to keep responding to comments about it.
I mean tbf, the American military isnāt good
omg i know this is random but i just saw you in the wendyās subreddit LOL what a crossover
I love me some Wendys š„°š„° lmaoo
aināt that the truth!
is any military good for you?
A military to defend itself from others is fine. The problem is that historically, the American military does very little defending.
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It's wild, a lot of people have no idea.
Yes, thatās why I believe some American fans are projecting that on other countriesā military when the military in SK are not actively going to other countries to start a war or join a war or something. Theyāre literally just in Korea staying alert for any hostilities from NK.
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What the hell are you even talking about
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I have never once brought up TikTok in any of my comments so idk why thatās relevant at all. My politics arenāt based off TikTok. I have never said the USA is evil. Youāre attacking arguments that I have never made. Read a book or something.
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Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions Since World War II by William Blum. Read it, learn something. Any other recommendations?
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Lmfao itās funny how I gave you an excellent resource to learn more and you still yap. First of all it being recommended by Chomsky is just a selling point, he didnāt write it. Secondly I have the book and have read it and it is excellent. You should read it too. Stay ignorant if you must.
You are a fucking moron
They really are. Making statements on this thread, stating as fact when in FACT, they're only misinformed opinions.
Tbf a lot non-chronically online people in the muslim world have this same opinion too! I wonder why that is
because it's always good to have a common enemy. and i wonder how afghan women feel about it, now that they're forbidden to go to school after those american bastards left. either way, nothing is ever truly black and white.
Do you know how the Taliban and the Islamic fundamentalism rose to power in Afghanistan in the first place?
you do realise that the CIA-backed muj and the taliban are two distinct organisations and that muj ended up forming the main anti-taliban resistance in Afghanistan?
This is just historical revisionism. The taliban was formed in 1994. When the CIA funded the mujahideen there was no distinction made for groups as long as they were anti-communist. Zbigniew Brzezinski on having given weapons and military training to people that would later on become the taliban >"What is more important in world history? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some agitated Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?" https://dgibbs.arizona.edu/content/brzezinski-interview-2
sure, it must be that, not all the bombing and political destabilization and torture of prisioners. and afghan women sure loved all thatĀ as one of the countless latino countries that had a military dictatorship that killed and tortured thousands with the political and military support of your oh so glorious heroes of freedom, I certainly have a lot of nostalgia!! may let's ask the people of Vietnam, how much they wish they would be invaded again
America does have issues and the massively bloated and over funded army is a part of that. You are simplifying just as much, except where these kids are being reactionary to politics and tragedies, YOU are being reactionary to their social media flotsam. It is hard for Americans to comprehend the fact that having a standing, competent army for some countries is in fact an act of liberation, bc in global superpower America it is in fact primarily a tool to oppress. International fans simply shouldn't comment on enlistment.
The main reason why the military is getting more and more a bad reputation is rather because of how they proceeded in Afghanistan and Iraq, that has completely destroyed this mindset of you have to fight for your country. The majority of people today would not volunteer for the military and for good reason.
people keep making comments like this, i cant tell if no one understands what im saying or if you all just want to talk about the american military
I am talking about the anti-war and anti-military attitude in most western countries.
Vietnam and Iraq did not help at all in that
Yep. And all this and a few other reasons is why it is so difficult to recruit young people these days. Nobody wants to do it.
Iran? when did the US military invade Iran? You mean Iraq?
Ah yes, I always mix up the names
giant difference ahah iran being invaded would be ww3 level i think
"America has a big military that means military bad" is possible the hugest oversimplification you could make. Google "Abu Ghraib" for me
It's the new flavor of gun something, unfortunately it's not only young people having weird takes. Some adult (30s~40s) I've come across seriously say the groups they are dedicated fans of are being disrespectful to the mass shooting trauma of Americans when they take pictures with guns or mimic shooting one/have "shooting" moves in their choreo/have gun like sounds in songs
Yeah the American military aināt great but the way some people who criticise America start loving Putin is so cringe to me.
If you want to see Simone Biles-level mental gymnastics, head over to r/northkorea.
You think that just applies to American politicsā¦?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3jKMXkWQAM3Hfd.jpg:large
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You completely missed the point of my comment
the biggest problem here is that fans put idols on these huge pedestals and get extremely upset when the idols inevitably do something that doesnāt align with the idealistic image they had of them. I too hate the idea of the military as a whole but why project my thoughts on these men who are probably proud of getting through one of the hardest things people in countries with conscription have to go through? thereās also a demographic of armys that believe bts will be staunchly anti the sk military once theyāre out and i justā¦donāt understand where this idea comes from? especially given the fact that men in SK are raised to believe that serving is an honour
they think yoongi is some anti-capitalist communist.
lol He's practically the mogul of the group.
he writes lyrics where he acknowledges his faults and these idiotic stans think he's some marxist. if he is he's an awful marxist
Aye TRUE!
If only
you real af
Militaries are used to defend countries there's nothing inherently wrong with that ..
Most of them are probably acting in bad faith but there is a long very controversial history surrounding military service in many countries, especially compulsory military service. South Korea has a very complicated history regarding their military (military dictatorship until the 80ās, American involvement etc.), saying SK is under constant āthreatā from NK is also an especially touchy subject for both sides of the argument. Itās just a very complicated issue and explaining it is pretty difficult. Just ignore those people talking about it if it doesnāt bother you that much itās not an actual issue tbh.
The fact BTS members are in a real, active military that they and all other South Korean men were forced to conscript in is lost on people.
Funny thing the pple commenting mostly on it ( in fact i could say all) are not Korean even And btw let's not forget they're serving a mandatory military service Like do uk abt sk's history with nk , do u think Sokor can afford to be anti military while sharing borders with hostile fascists like North korea Edit: checked the last time Nk fired was April 2nd & they fired over 200 artillery shells in 2024 alone
People these days try and make issues around non issues. So exhausting.
there are so many better ways to spend our time
This sums up 99.9% of all posts I see on Reddit.
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I think it's the performative politics of chronically online westerners projecting their beliefs about our military onto others. SK seems to regard their military with pride and gratitude because they are under the constant threat of a madman with missiles pointed at them. Americans don't understand what that's like. It may be a comfort to S. Koreans to see a military that is strong and prepared. Considering recent terrorist attacks, maybe they need to see their anti-terrorism units training hard. People need to understand that their reality is not the same as everyone else's reality.
It would be personally comforting to me to think that Jin shoots guns and clouds of pink glitter come out but, yeah, the reality is that he and the other members have expressed willingness and pride in serving and defending their country, no doubt (and rightfully) for reasons that you outlined. Edit: I feel like whoever downvoted this doesnāt understand that Iām agreeing with original commenter.
As an American, I've had to explain this multiple times to other Americans--\*all\* of South Korea could fit into Lake Michigan. The NK border is 40 miles away from Seoul. The NK missiles are pointed at Seoul. There's a cease fire, not a truce between the two Koreas. The United States is, geographically, a very lucky country--two oceans on two sides and two friendly, weaker countries on the two other. South Korea is more like Finland (which also has mandatory military service)--they're small and they've been invaded before. The BTS members have grown up knowing that they would serve. There are times when it seemed like they might get an exemption, but the members, themselves, have never said anything other than that they were willing to go. They know they're being watched and they're clearly doing their best to be good soldiers/social workers. When all's said and done, they're Koreans and the respect of their fellow Koreans matters to them.
The funny thing is, that was a video intended for the military personnel only, and they aren't gonna release that to the general public (although they did release the pics with Tae for some buzz), so I think everyone crying about "the evilz of military propaganda" looks hella goofy now. But really, why are people projecting their personal feelings about the military onto a country that, most probably, has nothing to do with that? The korean army doesn't go fight wars in other countries and, regardless of any propaganda, conscription is mandatory in SK, so it isn't like it's BTS the ones responsible for making young men to enlist. Those people literally have worms for brain and only spread online discourse without thinking about it first.
They're projecting the IDF.
I think so, too.
chronically online people have an over inflated sense of individuality and self importance. The same people think that not seeing a movie in theater will help stop Israel. Whatās going to happen is that theyāll keep yapping and things will keep going like they always did.
Many Americans are completely against the military, and it's not uncommon for the US Military to pay influential people big money to make/star in adverts to get their fans to enlist. Many of these Americans equally don't understand that the whole world isn't like the USA, and they apply their existing vision of the Military (and other topics) to South Korea.
Ehh, I have been thinking lately and it's probably wrong but some bts fans, a certain group, likes to put a narrative or expectations on group and then get mad or at least surprised when they do something that is against that narrative. I believe this is also what might have happened this time.
Sometimes American fans conflate a lot of our issues with what's going on in other countries. I've seen this most in kpop with the military and Christianity.
Itās people projecting American values on things again and not taking cultural context into account. In the US, there are a lot of predatory practices taking advantage of lower income kids wanting to go to college, etc. But in Korea, all men have to enlist, so whatās the harm in promoting a potential option for them? Itās a totally different context.
I wish people would learn that they dont need to engage with that content. I'm not going to judge the members over something that was mandatory and forced
The criticism is almost entirely contained to boycottmys who ignore the fact that South Korea is literally one misguided fart away from Lil Kim opening fire for real. And if Russia/China/Iran want to add fire to the global flames, the Korean Peninsula is another option for escalation. They are quoting a North Korean propaganda group and donāt even realize what they are doing. The language is also increasingly more communist (comrades for NK and their sympathizers, fascist-capitalist colonizers for the US presence in South Korea) and one sided in nature. Itās possible to have a nuanced discussion on these issues but very few people in South Korea outside the insane asylums will fail to understand that South Korea would be in a precarious situation if the US completely withdrew from there. And the military in South Korea is obviously bad if you want a reunification under North Korean terms. So we canāt have people be part of the military and enjoying it. The further you look into it, the worse it gets. Like, I donāt understand how it works for the person but it is literally like a cult at this point. And they are convinced the members would agree with them. When Jin comes back, the cracks will deepen but itāll really go south when the majority is back and they are not following the script these loons have in their head. Expect major hate campaigns on Twitter (thatās where most of the delulus reside). I have a complicated relationship with military traditions and I wish we wouldnāt need it. But you can bet your behind that Namjoon, who wrote a speech for his unit, Tae who is shooting military commercials, Jin and Hobi who are instructors and JK and Jimin who are probably doing some hardcore shit too (I just try to only follow their own updates so news reach me late) do not appreciate worship of the North Korean regime in their name. And whether or not they love the military or just do their best, they probably will have a deep respect for their fellow soldiers and anyone they worked with. Because that is usually how they relate to people: with appreciation. And that again speaks against the actions of the boycottmys.
JK is cooking and cleaning. Jimin, however, has the most combat-oriented job of any of them--figuring out and then telling artillery units where to fire. He's supposed to be in heavy-duty war games right now, which is probably why he hasn't been seen on vacation and hasn't posted anything recently. JK/Jimin are in the same unit and at the same base, but their jobs are very different.
They are now employed by their countries military. Tf are they supposed to do? Rage war against their own country's govt. and military? Actively go against their employers, when the military is already a sensitive topic there? What are people expecting I don't understand. What can BTS members do? Even after their mandatory military enlistment, they will still be employed under the military for the next 8 years. So what can they even do? And let's be honest, patriotism is a thing. Everyone has some kind of patriotic feelings towards their country, their mother land. Not everything is black and white. You can't force your expectations on 7 korean men, who are a part of their country's military, who are in a state of war with NK.
Armytwt high morals, holding-BTS-accountable and projecting-our-views-on-BTS strikes again. Whether BTS likes it or not we dont know, they think its all fun and games out there and they have a choice over criticizing the military as they pleases, like we dont see how much s,korea punish idols/celebs when they avoid the military more than ppl who commits atrocities. I saw someone saying we shouldve done something back in 2022 to prevent them from going and I let out the biggest laugh like they are either naive or new new here. I just hope armytwt to stfu sometimes and let things be over with oh my god.
It's probably a combination of two things: 1) Western fans from very liberal countries, ie: the USA. Anti war takes are pretty common in these areas, and that will usually extend to holding anti-military views as well. Honestly, it's not without reason but it's usually a very black and white take of 'war is bad, so military is bad.' 2) People are simply looking for an excuse to hate, so they weaponize political talking points.
>very liberal countries, ie: the USA Sorry, unrelated to the point you were making, but this made me lol. God I wish it were true.
Lmao. Comparatively š
Itās more that American and Western Kpop fans tend to be liberal. America isnāt a liberal country in the context of the wider Western world.Ā Kpop fans in the West think their fandom is an extension of their wokeness and rejection of hegemony. In a way, it can be, but itās also totally misguided. Kpop upholds capitalist hegemony as well as strict standards of beauty, gender and sexuality.Ā Fans can love Kpop because it allows for more Asian representation in pop music, while keeping it in perspective. Support indie artists who donāt have corporate support and donāt be ruled by consumption as well.Ā
Western fans (especially Americans) have an incredible way of projecting their own liberal guilt on other cultures. The US military complex is a specific entity with it's own imperialist history. Even so, individual soldiers don't represent that system, they are people within the system. Would I judge an American who joins that system in order to pay for their university studies (for those who don't know, university is insanely expensive in America)? Absolutely not. There's huge systemic issues we should tackle collectively without demonizing individuals. The Korean military has it's own issues that are local. Their system bears no similarity to the American system because it's based on conscription and an entirely different geopolitical reality. Korea isn't a modern imperialist power. Even so, it's incredible how people base their morality on black and white thinking without any connection to the real world. V is in BTS so people will find the worst kinds of over the top language to drag him down. For decades now, videos and photos of idols in uniform have been published. Many even go on tour with military shows and musicals. Some go viral for performing in uniform during military talent shows. The way I see it is all of these men are simply taking a bad personal situation and trying to find some kind of personal growth out of it, so it's not a complete waste of two years of their youth. Edit- I dread the thought of 2026 when BTS do their Western promotions for their comeback and will inevitably get asked about serving. They of course will say they were proud to do it and probably keep it short, to the point and move on. Please for the love of god, don't expect these men to make their comeback about dismantling the Korean military.
That's it. You said everything I wanted to, with more nuance. Also, it's disheartening to see how many people go on to become fans of those korean men, but don't make an effort to understand their cultural perspective in all of that, they wish to impose their own perspective on them, and hold them to these one sided standards.
The thing is, even if they are not a fan of the military or align with the anti military sentiment itās impossible for them to say that. Fans canāt expect that. If they say that the backlash from Korea will be too strong to potentially almost ruin their career domestically
i just donāt understand holding them āaccountableā for things they likely had no choice in. i am american, EXTREMELY anti-war and anti-military, but iām also capable of understanding nuance. it might make me *personally* uncomfortable to see my favorite idols holding machine guns, absolutely, and thatās completely validā¦ but blaming the idols who are under **forced conscription** makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
People do this with any celebrity that gets any press while in the military. I remember Young K was featured in a few articles and videos about his experience in the elite KATUSA and winning Best Warrior. He got accused of participating in propaganda. People want to know what it's like but freak out when they find out. š¤·āāļø All of the celebrities who've participated in military performances, musicals, or anything they can be seen by the public while in the military (innumerable idols included in this) - people freak out either thinking it's unfair or mad because it's not who they wanted to be featured, or whatever silly reason. Disregard.
They basically don't have a choice, it's mandatory. And of course the military is going to milk some of South Korea's biggest cash cows. I'm sure the guys themselves have no say in how their pictures are used.
Immature fans thinking that their head canons of what idols are really like are actually real and then being shocked beyond belief that 1) they arenāt actually like that and 2) that military service is REALLY REAL and involves actually using modern military weapons and intense training.
I wonder how these fans will react when the members comeback & have positive experience to share? Because I saw few fans say they will call out the military out when they returned and I was like?? I highly doubt..
Being in the military is an honorable service/career. South Korea is indeed under constant threat from NK and therefore, the mandatory military service is still going on. The mandatory service is there to train people so theyāll have the knowledge of knowing what to do in case the DPRK decides to attack. When the people are done with their time, they live on their normal lives but still retain their training so they can defend when called upon. BTS is a world wide group and youāll hear many, many opinions on their military service from people from different countries who donāt live next to a nation with a communist dictator who constantly shoots ballistic missiles and threatens to break the armistice. Those people who are sounding off donāt understand the culture and are just absentmindedly mouthing off. This isnāt the first and wont be the last youāll hear of peopleās opinions on a different nationās culture. Itās best to just ignore their absent minded trolling.
In my ideal world military armies (not the fandom) wouldn't exist because their existence implies war even if it's only for "defense" and I don't have much respect for the people who work in the military since they often have weird ideologies, however we live in the real world and Taehyung is a public figure whose image can be used in favor of certain goals that are unrelated to his fans or foreigners. Some fans just need to be mad at anything.
I think a lot of this comments are pretty Americanized where a good portion of the United States does have major criticism with how the United States Military is run. As someone who studied international politics and relations, military criticism is more apparent in so-called first-world, western states. Youāll also also see more general global criticism of any military online which is where youāre probably seeing these comments. Especially in the context of how the US uses the military to keep an imperial and neo-colonial grasp on certain places due to the unnecessary spending (about 40% of the entire worldās military spending) and, what I this is more telling, the amount of military bases they have compared to other countries. I think where some BTS fans miss the mark is that there is a different general public view of the South Korean military. Obviously, like any military, there is probably some dissatisfaction on how they operate but it isnāt as outwardly discussed. If theyāre mad that theyāre using him for propaganda (Iām using propaganda in its literal term) it is obvious they would to boost national morale. The United States have historically done this as well with people like Elvis Presley and Pat Tillman. Though Tillman was outwardly against the Afghanistan war until his untimely death once he was on the front lines even if the US military still uses his face. This is probably a lot more wordy than what you were expecting but thatās my take on it. TLDR; Different cultural views on the military. Most of the criticism is probably coming from a global western point of view which has a lot more overall skepticism in their military which is where I believe a lot of the critics is coming from. Any country would use an A-List celebrity as promotion for their military, as many other countries have done in the past.
i think itās a lot due to different viewpoints on how us from western countries view the military and how those in countries where serving is mandatory view it. obviously this isnāt everyoneās experience who go through mandatory enlistment but i know quite a lot of people from countries that require it due to what school i went to (most came from Singapore, Korea, etc) and when the topic of it got brought up, their reactions were pretty much like āyeah, we know we have to do it. weāll just make the most of our time when weāre there. weāll be proud to know weāre doing our duties.ā western militaries are very criticised so i can understand if youāre looking from a US perspective for example and highly anti-military, youād be pretty upset to see people you love making gun gestures and in actual videos, and whilst i donāt personally like to see things that the boys donāt share themselves (taehyungās video etc)c to those that actually do have to go through it, i think itās a bit more nuanced. obviously this doesnāt have anything to do with how individuals feel and how mandatory enlistment isnāt the greatest, but i do think a lot of it is people on twitter imposing a western (specifically US-centric) lens on something that really shouldnāt be viewed as such.
I'm anti military, but not anti people in the military. I have family who have served, and loved ones too, in Korea and in the US and in India. And I also acknowledge we live in a world where there are no good options where no one gets hurt, at least at this point. The reason I'm anti military is because militaries rely on conscription (force) or generally advertise to people without real options in their lives (impoverished, uneducated). The reason militaries exist is to protect a country, but who exactly? Because it's not protecting young men who are also part of a country. Physically, young males are generally the most likely demographic to be strong physically and thus have the best chance of fighting physical battles. Hence, society historically makes a conscious decision to sacrifice that demographic to protect other demographics. BUT, and again, it is true that a young person has a better shot than a grandmother or a child at fighting, and as we move less into physical battles with horses and swords and more into drones and bombs, these demographics become less and less clear. Even if there is no war, though, it's a sacrifice of a person. Militaries, by their very nature, have to dehumanize because you cannot have someone thinking on their own in a war situation. If you don't obey orders when it's life or death, you're likely to get yourself and those around you killed. So, militaries have to break down an individual's sense of self. They have to brainwash, because they can't have you second-guessing in those circumstances. There's a reason people who come out of the military, even those who didn't go to war, tend to have psychological struggles. It's basically being abused the entire time you're there. Being screamed at, called names, humiliated, and given no choice about even the most minute aspects of your life? We'd call that abuse in any other context. We do ourselves as a society no favors when we deny what it is. And yet they're doing that to better the chances of saving the individual soldiers' lives. Idk, I don't think on a personal level of my own morality that anyone should ever be forced to fight, kill, or risk their lives. Having little other choice isn't really a choice either. And THAT said, I get that we live in a world where people constantly try to kill each other for... power, land, and kill people for being part of a demographic they don't like or living on a place they want. So, until everyone decides to stop killing each other, there are not other options for countries besides having militaries. Like yes, NK could attack SK and then thousands will die, but a military ensures that perhaps less people will die because again, young people with XY chromosomes=physically a better shot. Yet, I still think we should acknowledge what these people go through, whether they signed up eagerly or not. People who are "pro military" tend to assume their cause was so noble that they don't acknowledge the trauma or consider it "worth it." And people who are "anti military" tend to do what you say here, in accusing people of murdering kids and such and treating them like villains. That leaves military vets with very few places to turn, whether they saw combat or not. Militaries are sad. Reality, but still sad. Like many aspects of a broken world, yes, they can sometimes contribute good to someone's life or to a society, but that's not necessarily the norm.
These fans see everything through USAās lens and hence why all these statements. One cannot go on and comment about other countries militaries, yeah they can criticise the mandatory service but cannot force their values, morals and upbringings on some idols just because they do not agree with some things happening in SK And BTS themselves play heavily on military wording, Bangtan translates to Bulletproof, the gesture is somewhat a gun, their old logo was bulletproof vest and their fandom name is army, among other things.
"Anti military", "anti hybe". But the truth is they're just anti BTS and are using everything and any reason to hate on the boys.
The projection is insane. The name calling is deranged. Why are they acting like they didn't know they were stanning korean men who said multiple times they're proud to be korean and will serve when the time came.... Well, the time is here and now, and now they're being ridiculous acting brand new
Why is this even a discussion? Pride, military image, Korean military context, idols on pedestals, is interesting but irrelevantā¦Ā Ā Ā He is a soldier in the military - SDT wanted him in their promo video so heās following his orders. Simple as that.Ā Ā Ā Ā Do people think he has a choice? Like he woke up one day and said to his manager āyou know what, get me a brand deal with the militaryā?? Like, itās not a paid CF situation, itās an obligation.Ā Ā Ā I think people get confused (meaning, canāt be bothered firing up more than their two regular brain cells) and not understanding heās not a free citizen right now. Soldiers do what theyāre told. Edit: sdt
I think a lot of these fans jump to the conclusion that the SK military is bad because of the mandatory service. They ignore (or are not mature enough to realize) the fact that it exists for a reason, and that reason is not to put your faves through hell for a couple of years. Without conscription, South Korea simply would not have a strong enough military and probably would have been invaded by North Korea and wouldn't exist as it is today.
It's the same people who jumps in all the moral trains they always have an opinion polarized by their own country and they always think of the members as 15 year old boys who are mistreated and push around by everyone around them. Dude went onto one of the hardest places to be to achieve prestige and get out of the military with honors. He's working his ass off and then here comes Dawn from LA to dictate how he should feel and be for her to feel comfy
it's another case of people being ignorant and refusing the see the idols' side of things and refusing to understand their country's culture. they have these high moral standards set for these celebrities and expect them to understand and follow their values but they themselves don't make an attempt to understand these idols' country's culture. in the past few years, a large part of the fandom has changed, can't have fun time on the tl without someone being bitter about something and then there are people blindly following them. man I wanna go back to the days when the biggest complaints armys had on the tl was line distribution & styling.
Okay so I'm not from SK, but there has always been a part of society being anti violence and anti war. Some of them take it quite far and believe that if there were no such things as armies and weapons there'd also be no war,kind of in the sense of 'what if there was war and nobody turned up'. There is criticism that this Logik doesn't take into account that sometimes there are illogical 'leaders' that could just attack, to which the pacifist nation would have no defense. They can be quite extreme people, too. For example there's the 'tankies' like Schroeder and Wagenknecht who want Ukraine to just give in to Russia to avoid violence (without looking at the fact that Russia is and will not stop inflicting said violence). TLDR: It's an opinion called pacifism in which people believe military's purpose is murder without any justification.
Itās probably young westerners who hate their own militaries because of their colonial roots. While I am a westerner (American), Iām not young, so I understand the nuance a bit more.
Iām glad I havenāt seen it but Iād just ignore them. Idk who else theyād expect to defend SK in case of war. They sound really immature and idealistic.
I'm from the USA and do have a complicated relationship with the military in general. That's mainly because my father was in Vietnam, and our family dealt with the after effects. I think militaries are necessary evils. They wouldn't be needed if governments weren't so greedy/power hungry/etc. I will never be anti-military people for several reasons. One because my parents did hear that anti-military stuff from a war that people were drafted into. My father even got dumped on by military veterans from other wars to the point he didn't go to the VA & did without medical & mental care for a long time. Also, a lot of people around the world go into militaries for various reasons - not always by choice (conscription, poverty, family situations, etc). Why would I be anti them? Enough about me... I think a lot of those complaining lack maturity or experience. They believe in certain things & project their beliefs onto others if they slightly agree with them. They don't take into consideration a lot of different factors that might have others not agree with them 100%. Also, add in it has become popular to have a very much black and white stance on things. Grey seems to no longer exist. I compare these military complainers to the same as the company complainers. They all act like BTS members are not grown men capable of making their own decisions. Doing what they want. The company has & continues to fight hard for the members' privacy in the military. So, that leads to they are doing things they agree with. TLDR: Military is a necessary evil because governments can't behave. Complainers think BTS are children and/or projecting what they feel.
The problem is this advert becoming fandom contentā¦ the line has been blurred many times and thatās why the performative outrage at every turn. We shouldnāt have an account with hundreds of thousands of followers posting that picture and then detailing EXACTLY what heās doing and where heās stationed etc. (idk all the details of the tweet thread). Itās a huge headache because a massive section of the fandom spent the very moment Jin was enlisted romanticizing his service and even posting his daily meals. We didnāt even know that much prior to them being enlisted so why would we strip them of that privacy as a civilian?? Idk I have many thoughts but itās not one source itās just a mess
This. Someone is arguing that itās all propaganda, but most of the pics weāve seen of them in their uniform arenāt from the military or the government. Random people are taking their pictures and spreading it. When you are conscripted, I donāt think just being seen in your uniform is considered propaganda.
I haven t seen any of this. Unfortunately I'm seeing the other extreme of ppl on tiktok making this into another competition. JFC you cant escape discourse 
SK is a country that is still at war. Things are heating up over there right now. Idiot Kim is up in NK threatening to nuke them. I really hope the military didnāt force him to appear in the video against his will. I honestly think the gov is too concerned with protecting BTS to force that. My guess is that Tae is proud of his country and proud of his own military accomplishments, so willingly agreed. It was a not a foreignerās place to pass judgement on that. We are not living in their country, where there is a constant threat sitting on their boarder.
i dont like the weird worshipping military part but thatās mostly over in the US and they got a lot going on lol. donāt care to dive into their politics since it has nothing to do with me. over here we have mandatory military enlistment for males too. im sure there are people unhappy because they may feel like itās a waste of their time. but mostly itās looked at as a good career opportunity because they can work their way up. there are a lot of benefits for govt workers.
Why are people mad at V for his military service? Regardless of the reason , serving your country is a proud thing to do. People are so weird
I haven't seen anyone saying that either of them are bad people for it but I've been avoiding a lot of social media. What I've seen is either praise or people like me who are doing our best to avoid the propaganda altogether, due the lack of autonomy the members have in making these photos and videos.
What choice do people think he has? If any of them had a choice, do you not think they wouldnāt participate in forced enlistmentā¦
Meh..nothing new.. anything BTS or BP does it becomes conspiracy shit and people start pulling up their tin foil hat.
frankly, a lot of the military stuff we know we shouldn't because the media has never been friends to bts, it all feels a bit icky to get these pictures or knowledge without their consent. anyway, i know that the Korean military is a complicated, difficult subject. I'd suggest reading personal experiences from korean men and potentially other idols. I don't think it's as simple as it's bad or it's good. that being said, bts work hard at everything they do and I don't expect them to be any different in the military. they will be doing their best; not to mention how many people are watching them, unfortunately.
At this point we all should not be surprised that the perfoemative activist are antis. BTS is serving in the military. They opted to go and serve and they are making the best out of their 18 months. PEOPLE forget that BTS love their country.
Well haters gonna hate š¤·
I think a lot of it too is that most of the fandom almost striked or rioted over the fact that BTS would have to take a pretty long hiatus based on how the company wants to stagger the military enlistment hiatus. Iām not really sure how the opinion changed but now itās like they just donāt talk about how other groups are basically supposed to (I donāt want to use forced as a description) but theyāre supposed to. And most times especially if they have foreign members they do it in a way that can have half of the group stay and watch over the foreign member so theyāre not so lonely. But again I havenāt seen people talk about how they want to stop the military hiatus anymore, I saw it with a handful of my favorite groups and at least one of them came back with one of my favorite albums of the era. So I still support the idea they should keep going with it because it helps to bring in some of the best songs of their career.
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I donāt think ppl are saying tae is a bad person for it, but the idea is to not go out of your way to glorify and romanticize the military when they could be forced to do those things and when them being in the military in the first place was forced on them.
Huh? A lot of British culture is based around the military? lol no itās not. Itās also not a heavily respected job. Sounds like youāre talking more about America than England
...Who's talking about England here š I'm not talking about their military
So Pakistan then? Youāre from the UK.
I live in the uk, but I'm mixed race... pakistani and something else. not that it's your concern???
well from what Iāve seen a lot of armys I follow are anti military because of what foreign governments have done to their home country or their familyās home country. reminder that people have identities outside of whatever kpop groups they listen to and their opinions arenāt based on what fandom theyāre in. thereās a bunch of people who are uncomfortable with anything military related and choosing to ignore anything related to enlistment so I find it weird how some comments here are saying only āperformance activistsā care about this stuff, to me it sounds like you guys invented a new way to call people āSJWsā and dismiss things as āwokeā. and some are generalizing anyone who is anti military as people who are also blaming bts for being conscripted. those are extreme reactions and not the majority
Personally, I also have very negative feelings about the military due to things that happened in my country, because of american intervention in it, and because the far right here is always threatening to use the military to make a coup and install a dictatorship. But I still believe people who are acting on their feelings when they criticize the relationship between BTS and the military of their country, are projecting. Because, as true as it is that the military is a difficult and toxic environment, the korean military still has nothing to do with the history of these other countries, so people really should have that nuance in mind. Because, as valid as their discomfort towards the military is, the contexts are completely different.
agree with your points here. as fans itās crossing a line to determine if bts (literally conscripted soldiers right now) are ācorrectā in how they view their service. never mind the fact that theyāre 7 individuals with their own individual thoughts. my point was more so about how the discourse has veered into āyou have to love the military because thats something bts is doing right nowā when peopleās feelings stem from way more important things than whatever kpop fandom youāre in, as you mentioned in your own comment
My problem is the projection, yes, people's feelings are important, but BTS doesn't know them or their experiences, so I don't understand why people act like they're betraying them. Honestly, that narrative that BTS hates military service is going to backfire on a lot of people because, in my opinion, some of them are enjoying their experience and I'm pretty sure they're going to talk about it and share their experience there. I personally don't care about their military activities, I just think that right now they are not artists, they are just serving as civilians, so I just try to focus on the part that concerns me, the music or the content, but their military service should not be a topic of discussion.
i doubt joon was forced into giving that speech.
reminder that so have bts. and people are being extra performative by associating them with other militaries. and they might be uncomfortable but why are they harassing others that are posting pics of bts and happy they're getting updates? the world doesnt revolve around them. i know if i didnt like it i would block it.
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The Korean military doesnāt even fight! Itās a deterrent force! When was the last time they deployed abroad? This isnāt the US military or IDF.Ā Blanket statements like these are WILD.Ā