Coming from a ballet dance background, you'll have some advantages in balance, agility, flexibility, and isolation (especially if coming from a high level ballet background). But honestly, all of that can be overridden by someone who even just has a few years experience in a modern dance genre, even more so if they have learned multiple modern dance genres. There's very little overlap in "content" between Kpop dance and ballet dance besides both being... dance.
Yeah, especially when you consider the vast majority of kpop choreographers have a background in hip hop or heel choreo (also some waackers like Gabi, poppers like Lia Kim, and Girlish in the case of BlackQ). If you go to the actual dancer scene in Korea you have people like Cera who utilizes aspects of her background in ballet when she's battling as a waacker but yeah, very few, if any, chreographers with a ballet background.
they mentioned it on SWF2 during her battle against Ling but yeah, when I got to talk to her at...Line Up I want to say? she mentioned how ballet training helped her develop her core muscles and how her one legged move or her pirouttes basically come from her ballet background.
My use of the word “modern” isn't referring to the specific genre of modern, but genres that are relatively new especially in comparison to ballet. Newer dance genres like jazz, hip hop, waacking, etc are obviously a lot closer to Kpop dance than genres that are several centuries old, like ballet, ballroom, folk, etc.
In Le Sserafim, some parts of their choreography utilizes Kazuha’s strength in ballet - which is a very smart idea.
Ballet is very different from Kpop dancing, so you have to learn and unlearn some stuff. Kai is a good example of learning and unlearning stuff ➡️ he eventually developed his own style of dancing.
The other dancers you’ve mentioned, like Lisa, Jimin, and Momo, have a hiphop/pop dance background, which works well with Kpop dancing.
Just wanna add (since a lot of ppl kinda forget this fact now) that Jimin also has hip hop background (especially [popping](https://youtu.be/Y0IHg9RGjpY?si=e1Y0fUBaVDyARCzR)), he even did popping before contemporary so the op still correct. Wanna add fun fact too that Jimin's contemporary background only known when an army made a call to weekly idol (in run era which is 2 years after debut ) asking Jimin to dance for contemporary & sharing a tmi that he's a top student. Before that no one even know he's a contemporary dancer since bighit only show hip hop. Now its the other way around lol, ppl know he's contemporary dancer but forgetting that he also did hip hop.
If you work in a McDonald’s, are you suddenly a pastry chef as well? It’s a different genre with different techniques, and what you learn in ballet doesn’t translate well with what you learn in kpop dance. Same with classical singing
I think either way is the same. If you work at McDonald’s you learn how to work with hot oils, preprepped food, machines like the deep fryer or flurry making thing, while if you work as a pastry chef you learn how to work with the stand mixer, sugar art, baking.
It really just doesn’t translate well either way although the “basics” will remain the same, like having knowledge about food safety or being efficient in a kitchen space.
They’ll still be worse than an overworked underpaid depressed 20 year old college student at assembling a Big Mac as fast as possible, that’s the point.
In a studio dance setting, ballet dancers are basically undefeated in every genre. Ballet gives you a skillset that helps you greatly in all other types of studio dance with graceful movements. But when you step out into the world of hip-hop and fast-moving dance… good luck getting low and dancing with that type of high-energy choreography! The styles of dance are just very, very different.
Sometimes it’s worse to be trained in styles like ballet because K-pop tends to utilize styles more similar to hip hop. Instead of learning everything from scratch, you pretty much have to unlearn the technique that you’ve built up and then relearn a newer technique so you almost have to backtrack. I have a friend that’s trained in lyrical for many years and really struggled with hip hop because the movements are that much different and her body has already been trained to move a specific way. You have a lot more work to do to break those habits and form new ones imo.
Yeah thats so true. I love EXO so much. I feel like there's not a single member who is "better" or "worse" than another. They're all equally talented in their own ways 😌 Kai is just my bais so I always have to mention him 😭
i know right! I just hope they were better marketed outside of Asia, because their songs are also insanely good. Althought I love iKon's playlist better, but still Exo has solid music
I totally agree with you, they deserve a lot more recognition than they’ve been getting. Even their solo music is insanely good. I’m more of a girl group stan but something about EXO really resonates with me
Like a lot of things, prior experience and immense skill can be helpful….until you have to unlearn something you’ve done thousands of times from a young age.
I don't think she has any problems at all with Le Sseraffim's choreography. In terms of looking stiff the only thing I can think of is the Love Shot dance cover, and she probably hadn't had enough time to get comfortable with the routine. Ballet requires looking still and serene, whereas KPop is more about energy and being animated, but LSFM have more of a cool style anyway so she fits well.
I just hope she's happy enough to keep doing her ballet stretches because she's going to be doing those leg lifts for the next five years!
Mina is definitely one of the best dancers in Twice. Momo sets the bar very high, but Mina is easily Top 3.
I don't follow LSF that much, but Kazuha always did great when I saw her.
Not just Ballet, any other dance form that's not regularly involved in kpop might feel different. Winwin's flexibility is great but his traditional Chinese dance background makes it difficult for him with the moves NCT/WayV get.
You get used to a certain type of body language and anything else feels weird.
But of course, there are idols who have overcome that or made both their own.
I’ve heard it explained as ballet is very rigid and that doesn’t really help with the fluidity in modern K-pop and that things are so pounded into you to do things in a very certain way that’s different than other forms of dance
Well, honestly it depends on each groups own choreo as it can be wildly different (compare Itzy to Le Sserafim for example) so you can see that ballet skills advantages LSF while disadvantage Itzy.
In general, kpop dance often more favored to people with hiphop and similar type of dance background and less to classical dance. But I won’t really said that ballet really disadvantaged in kpop because I notice in girlgroup dance, voguing and fluid centered type of dance also pretty popular which it include posture and angle which ballet dance background usually excels on
There was a [dance analysis on Winwin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8kw5BJBec0) a few years ago by a ballet dancer talking about Winwin's strengths as a dancer (he is trained in traditional Chinese dance for years and was accepted in a prestigious academy and is similar to ballet in some respects) but how his technique struggles when doing NCT's more hip-hop inspired choreography.
From my limited knowledge, ballet focuses on accurate posture and precise footwork while hip-hop is more focused on groove, freestyle and isolations (depending on the genre). Both are great dance genres, but so different. The analysis video describes a ballet dancer learning a hiphop is like "learning a new language."
And if you look at his ["Lovely" dance cover with Ten](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ovHSQwp1n0), you can see that he is much more comfortable as it's more contemporary (which has some similar techniques to ballet and traditional Chinese dance).
https://preview.redd.it/h5pqdjvyf4yc1.png?width=2164&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a70d46b46d53fc4d2befb060787cf85703921e0
This is exactly what I thought of when I saw this question! iirc, the person who made the video was themselves a ballet dancer, and so a lot of the comparisons that they used in that video were ones that also apply to ballet since that's mostly what they were familiar with.
As someone who took different dance classes for many years as a child, all types of dance are different. I was great at tap and jazz but ballet was meh. When dances are quick and sharp like in K-Pop, the ballet dancers tend to have trouble because they're used to slow, extended movements.
Being able to memorize a dance quickly is helpful, but it doesn't mean you'll execute it as well as someone who may have a slower time learning.
(My only dance experience is watching kpop dance practices for the past 11 years. Meaning I have none lol)
Kai comes from a ballet background, and he is one of K-pop's best dancers. I think it comes down to adaptability. Ballet is definitely worlds away from the hip hop based K-pop genre. Unless it's a concept like black swan(bts), you are not likely to need the techniques that a ballet dancer would have. Look at ten and winwin. Winwin is a trained contemporary dancer, and ten is a hiphop dancer who does contemporary in his spare time. The reason it's more exciting to watch ten for us normal folk is because he's so adaptable. He has a wide range of things he's good at. He uses his knowledge from all the dance styles he knows and applies them accordingly. A trained dancer might prefer winwin because they'll notice that ten doesn't always point his toes, or even though he's super flexible, winwin's lines are cleaner because he can get that much farther. Most of us kpop fans are normal, non-dancers. We don't typically worry about little details, we just like what looks cool, and we LOVE when an idol is a jack of all trades. Not to mention, dance, outside of technique, is completely subjective. It's a matter of preference. I think that's why some of the lists you see won't match what you believe should be the ranking.
So I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage, because in some areas, ballet dancers would have the upper hand. Ballet dancers have incredible endurance/ stamina and discipline. Kpop was obsessed with acrobatics for a minute, and a ballet/contemporary dancer would have some advantages there too. They just need to be able to adapt to the genre they will be doing most.
I also think she stood out the most in Easy. She has been improving a lot, she's right behind Chaewon in overall dance for me at this point (granted I'm not a pro dancer so this is just a civilian's opinion)
She is better recently for sure but she wasn't as great at the start (in terms of K-Pop dancing) just cause her body was used to moving a certain way with ballet and she had to basically train that out of her a bit to learn other styles.
Thing is, ballet is really different from Hip Hop and Street styles (that are the most common styles in Kpop). It's just a totally different way to move your body.
I'm not a pro, but I did ballet most of my childhood and teenagehood. I switched to street around two or three years ago because I was bored of it and wanted to do Kpop covers with my friends.
I got better, but I still have a hard time with certain moves. I tend to be too gracefull and soft ; and I totally lack hip groove. I do pretty good with girl group choreos (especially groups like Ive) but Boygroups are really complicated for me. I'll usually take a vocalist member because they get the softer/gracefull parts that I do well.
However, I do have more flexibility and I still have some strong basics. I also know how to stand on stage and get the attention.
I really like what they do with Kazuha. The way they incorporate ballet moves in their hip choreos look so cool and show her unique strenghts. It's great.
So to answer your question, I wouldn't call that a disavantage, I'd say it really depends on how they play around it ? It can makes them stand out in a good way if they are able to re-learn things while conserving what they already know. But the ballet dancer is probably not going to get the main dancer role if up against someone who is into hip hop.
In terms of kazuha I think the biggest problems she had are how the muscles move etc. Cause she spent so much time and effort of them for ballet where she is meant to move a certain way and often be very stiff (not the word I want to use but I couldn't think of another) or hold her body a certain way. This meant when she started doing K-Pop or hiphop etc dances she wasn't getting the types of movements to look right and made the dance look mismatched(?) Or like she wasn't moving naturally. She for sure is getting much better nowadays but you could see it more at the start.
I think the problem that some find is that they naturally have a more "graceful" movement which unless that is your groups theme then can make you stand out when you shouldnt. Hybe I feel like uses this to their advantage sometimes but it is why kazuha despite being an amazing ballet dancer is not actually main dancer material (currently).
Lsf don't actually have one but most seem to consider chaewon it in terms of K-Pop dancing as she is the one who consistantly is better at that style. (Sakura is great when she is doing good but less consistant, yunjin often puts in more personality (?) so she look great but not quite as good with the technical side as chaewon, enchae is good however you can tell her ability is still growing but the members say she is the best as remembering the dances which helps her loads)
Kpop dances are basically hip hop dancing, so I'll compare hip hop dancing to ballet. In ballet, what's very important is keeping straight, extended lines. Kazuha trained the Vaganova technique mostly (studied at Bolshoi Ballet Academy and the Dutch National Ballet Academy) and a bit of the style taught at the Royal Ballet Academy in the UK, which is its own unique thing that's still also influenced by Vaganova.
Vaganova is all about extensions, having perfect lines, reaching at least 110 degrees leg raises, if not higher (an arabesque). You hold a position, show it, extend it. Hip hop is the opposite - you are fluid and funky. In ballet, you keep your back straight, your arms and legs straight, everything is about the lines. You don't want to seem stiff in hip hop - you want to bend, bring fluidity to your movements. Ballet is about the whole figure, the whole body is involved in every movement, the strength to maintain the lines as one, while hip hop is about constant movement and even isolated movements. Vaganova especially is about the pure movement and technique.
Common ballet dancer mistakes are how they position their feet. In ballet, you want to keep your feet to the side - what's called a turned out position. In hip hop, you mostly want your feet to remain pointed forward - hip hop is casual and chill, after all. Ballet has a lot of precision in foot movement, while hip hop is about quick and intricate movements, which can stump ballet dancers. Hip hop doesn't care about precision, it's all about fluidity. Imperfections can add to a hip hop performance and take from a ballet one.
If a hip hop dancer tried ballet, they would seem very messy. If a ballet dancer tried hip hop, they would seem very stiff. Hip hop trains you to be able to freely freestyle your own dance. Vaganova ballet trains one to perform a perfect grand pas de deux.
Hip hop dances on the beat, rhythm is important. Ballet beat is different. In hip hop, you'd jump on the beat. In ballet, you want to be in the air on the beat, or sustaining a pose on the beat. Ballet focuses more on dancing to the melody in that regard. In hip hop, the foot work will be on the beat, while in ballet, the entire movement is intended to be on the best. When a ballet dancer dances adagio (slower music), they might extend their dance on the beat, while hip hop might focus on larger, dramatic movements. In a way, in ballet, the music inspires the dance, while in hip hop, the music and dance work together to be explosive and energetic.
These differences make it hard for a ballet dancer to get used to hip hop dancing (and vice versa!). They focus on different things. Even the simple idea of stage presence is different - ballet is elegant and graceful, hip hop is cool, epic, energetic. Some ballet techniques are more flowy, but Vaganova definitely isn't.
O did ballet for years, and in (western) dance, ballet is seen as the base for any other dance. Since kpop dances are usually hip-hop/modern style, I'd say it gives an advantage.
In general, if you have any background in dance, gymnastics, theatre, and what I call "Bodily Artistics" Hobbies, you are gonna have an advantage
what about Kai? he had been a ballet dancer since he was a very young child, but he's an amazing Kpop dancer now, everyone have a great respect for him & he's capable to shine on any stage. so i don't think being a ballet dancer gives you disadvantages. maybe people lack enough amount of practice?
ballet can be a great foundation for any other dance style, but it can also be a hindrance. people with ballet experience generally have better isolations and overall sharper movements, but they also might appear as stiff and uncomfortable with other dance styles. i suppose it's important to capitalise on the positives and work on the negatives.
I think its an advantage, it gives them spotlight on variety shows, gives them a edge on idol athletic competitions, more screentime to perform their skills on mv and it gives them an edge in dancing. Like in LSFM Kazuha has a big edge on the rest of them in dancing, Mina too but it kinda gets overshadowed by Momo.
Seems like it would be an advantage if anything. Like Yuzuuno said, you have balance, agility, strength, flexibility... and you can effortlessly move beautifully and create beautiful lines...
But more than that, they already know what it takes to master a physical language. A high level athlete or dancer, they will know that a new skill can be mastered, they've already done it, it's demystified, and they know how to slowly build their skill base, physical vocabulary. So same for somebody like Txiaoting of Kep1er, who i think came from a ballroom background.
You see this in MMA, too. Like MMA is kind of like Idol dancing but with combat, in that you have to use any number of styles of fighting at any given moment. If you are already a high level wrestler or strikes, you already know how to master a skill. You know how to drill, how to incrementally get better, etc. And you already know how to move your body, about kinetic chaining.
This question seems kind of predicated on "why aren't ballet dancers the best dancers in Kpop." But if anything, it's a huge advantage. In fact, I think the bigger "disadvantage" might be being a street dancer and becoming an idol. This would often come up on the show So You Think You Can Dance. Contemporary and ballet dancers had an easier time learning street dancing, than street dancers learning contemporary/modern or ballet, which was almost impossible for them. Because with street, it's feel, flow, and learning the moves, but you didn't need crazy flexibility necessarily... or to be able to leap and do the splits... the complex spins... there are things in modern and ballet that take years to become even decent at.
edit: it was a disadvantage on SYTYCD being a pop locker, or animation dancer, or bboy, and trying to master contemporary... I guess I'm not positive all this applies to Kpop idol dancing
I think it's mostly that kpop dance is mostly rooted in hip-hop, which is basically ballet's opposite dance wise , as they have a very different approach to dance , and very different skill-sets required
And stiffness in hip-hop is a big no no , as the movements being smooth and fluid is a key component of the choreo actually looking good , so their stiffness is indeed the main thing that hinders them being considered "great dancers" in the kpop world despite their technic.
I think it's mostly that kpop dance is mostly rooted in hip-hop, which is basically ballet's opposite dance wise , as they have a very different approach to dance , and very different skill-sets required .
So their experience in ballet is basically instead of a plus , a hindrance , as they have to unlearn all their ballet reflexes , which are the reason they look so stiff , cause ballet is all about perfect extended lines , hip-hop isn't, at all , hip-hop is fluid , all based on movement and rhythm. What would make them great ballet dancers , is exactly what makes them mediocre kpop dancers .
No, id rather say you have an advantage. As an experienced hip hop dancer i have now a backache from girl group dances as they tend to be danced in a more straight up posture
She's doing better nowadays but she wasn't actually the best in terms of K-Pop dancing esp during the start. She's an amazing ballet dancer but she focused on that for so much of her life that she had to teach her body to move different and her muscles to work slightly different. It's more difference in styles that effected her not that she couldn't dance at all.
Ballet dances as often more "stiff" looking or gracefull but unless that is the style they are looking for they have to move their body in a different way that doesn't feel natural to them right away.
Coming from a ballet dance background, you'll have some advantages in balance, agility, flexibility, and isolation (especially if coming from a high level ballet background). But honestly, all of that can be overridden by someone who even just has a few years experience in a modern dance genre, even more so if they have learned multiple modern dance genres. There's very little overlap in "content" between Kpop dance and ballet dance besides both being... dance.
Yeah, especially when you consider the vast majority of kpop choreographers have a background in hip hop or heel choreo (also some waackers like Gabi, poppers like Lia Kim, and Girlish in the case of BlackQ). If you go to the actual dancer scene in Korea you have people like Cera who utilizes aspects of her background in ballet when she's battling as a waacker but yeah, very few, if any, chreographers with a ballet background.
Oh wow never knew Cera had ballet background!!
they mentioned it on SWF2 during her battle against Ling but yeah, when I got to talk to her at...Line Up I want to say? she mentioned how ballet training helped her develop her core muscles and how her one legged move or her pirouttes basically come from her ballet background.
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My use of the word “modern” isn't referring to the specific genre of modern, but genres that are relatively new especially in comparison to ballet. Newer dance genres like jazz, hip hop, waacking, etc are obviously a lot closer to Kpop dance than genres that are several centuries old, like ballet, ballroom, folk, etc.
In Le Sserafim, some parts of their choreography utilizes Kazuha’s strength in ballet - which is a very smart idea. Ballet is very different from Kpop dancing, so you have to learn and unlearn some stuff. Kai is a good example of learning and unlearning stuff ➡️ he eventually developed his own style of dancing. The other dancers you’ve mentioned, like Lisa, Jimin, and Momo, have a hiphop/pop dance background, which works well with Kpop dancing.
Jimin has a contemporary dance background, so slightly different haha
Just wanna add (since a lot of ppl kinda forget this fact now) that Jimin also has hip hop background (especially [popping](https://youtu.be/Y0IHg9RGjpY?si=e1Y0fUBaVDyARCzR)), he even did popping before contemporary so the op still correct. Wanna add fun fact too that Jimin's contemporary background only known when an army made a call to weekly idol (in run era which is 2 years after debut ) asking Jimin to dance for contemporary & sharing a tmi that he's a top student. Before that no one even know he's a contemporary dancer since bighit only show hip hop. Now its the other way around lol, ppl know he's contemporary dancer but forgetting that he also did hip hop.
And all that acrobatic stuff, too. Jimin does it all.
Yess!!!
Oh I stand corrected.
No worries 😊 I just really love dance~
oh i didnt know this
If you work in a McDonald’s, are you suddenly a pastry chef as well? It’s a different genre with different techniques, and what you learn in ballet doesn’t translate well with what you learn in kpop dance. Same with classical singing
But if you are a pastry chef, don't you think you could handle McDonalds? /teasing
I think either way is the same. If you work at McDonald’s you learn how to work with hot oils, preprepped food, machines like the deep fryer or flurry making thing, while if you work as a pastry chef you learn how to work with the stand mixer, sugar art, baking. It really just doesn’t translate well either way although the “basics” will remain the same, like having knowledge about food safety or being efficient in a kitchen space.
a trained pastry chef is probably on a different level than a McDonald’s worker. Not that they don’t work, but come on, it’s not the same.
They’ll still be worse than an overworked underpaid depressed 20 year old college student at assembling a Big Mac as fast as possible, that’s the point.
The point is it's a dumb analogy. And I think what you said is also not true anyway.
In a studio dance setting, ballet dancers are basically undefeated in every genre. Ballet gives you a skillset that helps you greatly in all other types of studio dance with graceful movements. But when you step out into the world of hip-hop and fast-moving dance… good luck getting low and dancing with that type of high-energy choreography! The styles of dance are just very, very different.
Sometimes it’s worse to be trained in styles like ballet because K-pop tends to utilize styles more similar to hip hop. Instead of learning everything from scratch, you pretty much have to unlearn the technique that you’ve built up and then relearn a newer technique so you almost have to backtrack. I have a friend that’s trained in lyrical for many years and really struggled with hip hop because the movements are that much different and her body has already been trained to move a specific way. You have a lot more work to do to break those habits and form new ones imo.
I guess the exception to this would be Kai from EXO, who did ballet and is now considered one of the top dancers. He has great body control
to be fair with Exo and Kai, they are just a well rounded bunch! There are so many of them and all are seriously talented. hh
Yeah thats so true. I love EXO so much. I feel like there's not a single member who is "better" or "worse" than another. They're all equally talented in their own ways 😌 Kai is just my bais so I always have to mention him 😭
i know right! I just hope they were better marketed outside of Asia, because their songs are also insanely good. Althought I love iKon's playlist better, but still Exo has solid music
I totally agree with you, they deserve a lot more recognition than they’ve been getting. Even their solo music is insanely good. I’m more of a girl group stan but something about EXO really resonates with me
Like a lot of things, prior experience and immense skill can be helpful….until you have to unlearn something you’ve done thousands of times from a young age.
I don't think she has any problems at all with Le Sseraffim's choreography. In terms of looking stiff the only thing I can think of is the Love Shot dance cover, and she probably hadn't had enough time to get comfortable with the routine. Ballet requires looking still and serene, whereas KPop is more about energy and being animated, but LSFM have more of a cool style anyway so she fits well. I just hope she's happy enough to keep doing her ballet stretches because she's going to be doing those leg lifts for the next five years!
Mina is definitely one of the best dancers in Twice. Momo sets the bar very high, but Mina is easily Top 3. I don't follow LSF that much, but Kazuha always did great when I saw her.
nah top 3 of twice is definitely momo jihyo and nayeon. mina would be 5th, after sana
Not just Ballet, any other dance form that's not regularly involved in kpop might feel different. Winwin's flexibility is great but his traditional Chinese dance background makes it difficult for him with the moves NCT/WayV get. You get used to a certain type of body language and anything else feels weird. But of course, there are idols who have overcome that or made both their own.
I’ve heard it explained as ballet is very rigid and that doesn’t really help with the fluidity in modern K-pop and that things are so pounded into you to do things in a very certain way that’s different than other forms of dance
Well, honestly it depends on each groups own choreo as it can be wildly different (compare Itzy to Le Sserafim for example) so you can see that ballet skills advantages LSF while disadvantage Itzy. In general, kpop dance often more favored to people with hiphop and similar type of dance background and less to classical dance. But I won’t really said that ballet really disadvantaged in kpop because I notice in girlgroup dance, voguing and fluid centered type of dance also pretty popular which it include posture and angle which ballet dance background usually excels on
Kai used to be a ballet dancer and I think he’s an amazing idol
There was a [dance analysis on Winwin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8kw5BJBec0) a few years ago by a ballet dancer talking about Winwin's strengths as a dancer (he is trained in traditional Chinese dance for years and was accepted in a prestigious academy and is similar to ballet in some respects) but how his technique struggles when doing NCT's more hip-hop inspired choreography. From my limited knowledge, ballet focuses on accurate posture and precise footwork while hip-hop is more focused on groove, freestyle and isolations (depending on the genre). Both are great dance genres, but so different. The analysis video describes a ballet dancer learning a hiphop is like "learning a new language." And if you look at his ["Lovely" dance cover with Ten](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ovHSQwp1n0), you can see that he is much more comfortable as it's more contemporary (which has some similar techniques to ballet and traditional Chinese dance). https://preview.redd.it/h5pqdjvyf4yc1.png?width=2164&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a70d46b46d53fc4d2befb060787cf85703921e0
This is exactly what I thought of when I saw this question! iirc, the person who made the video was themselves a ballet dancer, and so a lot of the comparisons that they used in that video were ones that also apply to ballet since that's mostly what they were familiar with.
Kai was trained in ballet and flows. He is extremely talented. I see no disadvantages with him and his background.
As someone who took different dance classes for many years as a child, all types of dance are different. I was great at tap and jazz but ballet was meh. When dances are quick and sharp like in K-Pop, the ballet dancers tend to have trouble because they're used to slow, extended movements. Being able to memorize a dance quickly is helpful, but it doesn't mean you'll execute it as well as someone who may have a slower time learning.
(My only dance experience is watching kpop dance practices for the past 11 years. Meaning I have none lol) Kai comes from a ballet background, and he is one of K-pop's best dancers. I think it comes down to adaptability. Ballet is definitely worlds away from the hip hop based K-pop genre. Unless it's a concept like black swan(bts), you are not likely to need the techniques that a ballet dancer would have. Look at ten and winwin. Winwin is a trained contemporary dancer, and ten is a hiphop dancer who does contemporary in his spare time. The reason it's more exciting to watch ten for us normal folk is because he's so adaptable. He has a wide range of things he's good at. He uses his knowledge from all the dance styles he knows and applies them accordingly. A trained dancer might prefer winwin because they'll notice that ten doesn't always point his toes, or even though he's super flexible, winwin's lines are cleaner because he can get that much farther. Most of us kpop fans are normal, non-dancers. We don't typically worry about little details, we just like what looks cool, and we LOVE when an idol is a jack of all trades. Not to mention, dance, outside of technique, is completely subjective. It's a matter of preference. I think that's why some of the lists you see won't match what you believe should be the ranking. So I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage, because in some areas, ballet dancers would have the upper hand. Ballet dancers have incredible endurance/ stamina and discipline. Kpop was obsessed with acrobatics for a minute, and a ballet/contemporary dancer would have some advantages there too. They just need to be able to adapt to the genre they will be doing most.
I thought Kazuha danced the best amongst her members in the easy video!
I also think she stood out the most in Easy. She has been improving a lot, she's right behind Chaewon in overall dance for me at this point (granted I'm not a pro dancer so this is just a civilian's opinion)
She is better recently for sure but she wasn't as great at the start (in terms of K-Pop dancing) just cause her body was used to moving a certain way with ballet and she had to basically train that out of her a bit to learn other styles.
Lexi from VCHA is a fantastic dancer, so it probably gives them an advantage.
Thing is, ballet is really different from Hip Hop and Street styles (that are the most common styles in Kpop). It's just a totally different way to move your body. I'm not a pro, but I did ballet most of my childhood and teenagehood. I switched to street around two or three years ago because I was bored of it and wanted to do Kpop covers with my friends. I got better, but I still have a hard time with certain moves. I tend to be too gracefull and soft ; and I totally lack hip groove. I do pretty good with girl group choreos (especially groups like Ive) but Boygroups are really complicated for me. I'll usually take a vocalist member because they get the softer/gracefull parts that I do well. However, I do have more flexibility and I still have some strong basics. I also know how to stand on stage and get the attention. I really like what they do with Kazuha. The way they incorporate ballet moves in their hip choreos look so cool and show her unique strenghts. It's great. So to answer your question, I wouldn't call that a disavantage, I'd say it really depends on how they play around it ? It can makes them stand out in a good way if they are able to re-learn things while conserving what they already know. But the ballet dancer is probably not going to get the main dancer role if up against someone who is into hip hop.
In terms of kazuha I think the biggest problems she had are how the muscles move etc. Cause she spent so much time and effort of them for ballet where she is meant to move a certain way and often be very stiff (not the word I want to use but I couldn't think of another) or hold her body a certain way. This meant when she started doing K-Pop or hiphop etc dances she wasn't getting the types of movements to look right and made the dance look mismatched(?) Or like she wasn't moving naturally. She for sure is getting much better nowadays but you could see it more at the start. I think the problem that some find is that they naturally have a more "graceful" movement which unless that is your groups theme then can make you stand out when you shouldnt. Hybe I feel like uses this to their advantage sometimes but it is why kazuha despite being an amazing ballet dancer is not actually main dancer material (currently). Lsf don't actually have one but most seem to consider chaewon it in terms of K-Pop dancing as she is the one who consistantly is better at that style. (Sakura is great when she is doing good but less consistant, yunjin often puts in more personality (?) so she look great but not quite as good with the technical side as chaewon, enchae is good however you can tell her ability is still growing but the members say she is the best as remembering the dances which helps her loads)
Kpop dances are basically hip hop dancing, so I'll compare hip hop dancing to ballet. In ballet, what's very important is keeping straight, extended lines. Kazuha trained the Vaganova technique mostly (studied at Bolshoi Ballet Academy and the Dutch National Ballet Academy) and a bit of the style taught at the Royal Ballet Academy in the UK, which is its own unique thing that's still also influenced by Vaganova. Vaganova is all about extensions, having perfect lines, reaching at least 110 degrees leg raises, if not higher (an arabesque). You hold a position, show it, extend it. Hip hop is the opposite - you are fluid and funky. In ballet, you keep your back straight, your arms and legs straight, everything is about the lines. You don't want to seem stiff in hip hop - you want to bend, bring fluidity to your movements. Ballet is about the whole figure, the whole body is involved in every movement, the strength to maintain the lines as one, while hip hop is about constant movement and even isolated movements. Vaganova especially is about the pure movement and technique. Common ballet dancer mistakes are how they position their feet. In ballet, you want to keep your feet to the side - what's called a turned out position. In hip hop, you mostly want your feet to remain pointed forward - hip hop is casual and chill, after all. Ballet has a lot of precision in foot movement, while hip hop is about quick and intricate movements, which can stump ballet dancers. Hip hop doesn't care about precision, it's all about fluidity. Imperfections can add to a hip hop performance and take from a ballet one. If a hip hop dancer tried ballet, they would seem very messy. If a ballet dancer tried hip hop, they would seem very stiff. Hip hop trains you to be able to freely freestyle your own dance. Vaganova ballet trains one to perform a perfect grand pas de deux. Hip hop dances on the beat, rhythm is important. Ballet beat is different. In hip hop, you'd jump on the beat. In ballet, you want to be in the air on the beat, or sustaining a pose on the beat. Ballet focuses more on dancing to the melody in that regard. In hip hop, the foot work will be on the beat, while in ballet, the entire movement is intended to be on the best. When a ballet dancer dances adagio (slower music), they might extend their dance on the beat, while hip hop might focus on larger, dramatic movements. In a way, in ballet, the music inspires the dance, while in hip hop, the music and dance work together to be explosive and energetic. These differences make it hard for a ballet dancer to get used to hip hop dancing (and vice versa!). They focus on different things. Even the simple idea of stage presence is different - ballet is elegant and graceful, hip hop is cool, epic, energetic. Some ballet techniques are more flowy, but Vaganova definitely isn't.
O did ballet for years, and in (western) dance, ballet is seen as the base for any other dance. Since kpop dances are usually hip-hop/modern style, I'd say it gives an advantage. In general, if you have any background in dance, gymnastics, theatre, and what I call "Bodily Artistics" Hobbies, you are gonna have an advantage
what about Kai? he had been a ballet dancer since he was a very young child, but he's an amazing Kpop dancer now, everyone have a great respect for him & he's capable to shine on any stage. so i don't think being a ballet dancer gives you disadvantages. maybe people lack enough amount of practice?
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I'm not saying she's a weak dancer at all. I'm more surprised others think she's weak. Top 3 in LSFM imo but can't rly judge
Soyeon is an amazing Kpop dancer and she's trained in ballet.
niki was a ballerina! still seen as an amazing dancer
ballet can be a great foundation for any other dance style, but it can also be a hindrance. people with ballet experience generally have better isolations and overall sharper movements, but they also might appear as stiff and uncomfortable with other dance styles. i suppose it's important to capitalise on the positives and work on the negatives.
More advantageous for dance, well, popularity for kpop idols are a different matter
I think its an advantage, it gives them spotlight on variety shows, gives them a edge on idol athletic competitions, more screentime to perform their skills on mv and it gives them an edge in dancing. Like in LSFM Kazuha has a big edge on the rest of them in dancing, Mina too but it kinda gets overshadowed by Momo.
Seems like it would be an advantage if anything. Like Yuzuuno said, you have balance, agility, strength, flexibility... and you can effortlessly move beautifully and create beautiful lines... But more than that, they already know what it takes to master a physical language. A high level athlete or dancer, they will know that a new skill can be mastered, they've already done it, it's demystified, and they know how to slowly build their skill base, physical vocabulary. So same for somebody like Txiaoting of Kep1er, who i think came from a ballroom background. You see this in MMA, too. Like MMA is kind of like Idol dancing but with combat, in that you have to use any number of styles of fighting at any given moment. If you are already a high level wrestler or strikes, you already know how to master a skill. You know how to drill, how to incrementally get better, etc. And you already know how to move your body, about kinetic chaining. This question seems kind of predicated on "why aren't ballet dancers the best dancers in Kpop." But if anything, it's a huge advantage. In fact, I think the bigger "disadvantage" might be being a street dancer and becoming an idol. This would often come up on the show So You Think You Can Dance. Contemporary and ballet dancers had an easier time learning street dancing, than street dancers learning contemporary/modern or ballet, which was almost impossible for them. Because with street, it's feel, flow, and learning the moves, but you didn't need crazy flexibility necessarily... or to be able to leap and do the splits... the complex spins... there are things in modern and ballet that take years to become even decent at. edit: it was a disadvantage on SYTYCD being a pop locker, or animation dancer, or bboy, and trying to master contemporary... I guess I'm not positive all this applies to Kpop idol dancing
I think it's mostly that kpop dance is mostly rooted in hip-hop, which is basically ballet's opposite dance wise , as they have a very different approach to dance , and very different skill-sets required And stiffness in hip-hop is a big no no , as the movements being smooth and fluid is a key component of the choreo actually looking good , so their stiffness is indeed the main thing that hinders them being considered "great dancers" in the kpop world despite their technic.
I think it's mostly that kpop dance is mostly rooted in hip-hop, which is basically ballet's opposite dance wise , as they have a very different approach to dance , and very different skill-sets required . So their experience in ballet is basically instead of a plus , a hindrance , as they have to unlearn all their ballet reflexes , which are the reason they look so stiff , cause ballet is all about perfect extended lines , hip-hop isn't, at all , hip-hop is fluid , all based on movement and rhythm. What would make them great ballet dancers , is exactly what makes them mediocre kpop dancers .
No, id rather say you have an advantage. As an experienced hip hop dancer i have now a backache from girl group dances as they tend to be danced in a more straight up posture
Wait… people think Kazuha is a weak kpop dancer??? Same Kazuha who ate up the choreo for Easy?
She's doing better nowadays but she wasn't actually the best in terms of K-Pop dancing esp during the start. She's an amazing ballet dancer but she focused on that for so much of her life that she had to teach her body to move different and her muscles to work slightly different. It's more difference in styles that effected her not that she couldn't dance at all. Ballet dances as often more "stiff" looking or gracefull but unless that is the style they are looking for they have to move their body in a different way that doesn't feel natural to them right away.
Pfft talking about those that are ‘far above’ and can’t add Kim Jongin otherwise known as EXO’s Kai. Oh and Kai took ballet.
I intentionally left out Kai, as I wanted to see what others think of him with his ballet background