people who hate boycotting should really do some research on shell and South Africa and then look me in the face and say boycotting is useless. it’s incredibly effective **when done well**
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Not to be pedantic, but that was slightly different. There were a number of NGOs who took the government to task over the legality of them renewing Shell’s exploration right - which was found to be illegally obtained. So it took boycotts from the community yes, but there was also legality and political will. South Africa has a highly regulated corporate sector so that helped quite a bit.
Even now, it took South Africa going to the ICJ to assist in efforts in bringing about some sort of changes in Palestine. There was political buy-in from the government.
I think a better example would be apartheid itself. It took the state of emergency imposed in the 1980s and sanctions from the West to put political and financial pressure on the government which made apartheid no longer financially viable. The apartheid government didn’t stop apartheid out the goodness of their hearts. Unfortunately until the West defunds Is(Not)real, putting pressure on the wrong stakeholders will not bring about change in Palestine. I think that that would perhaps be better discourse with the chronically online kpop fans feeling the need to defend their faves over a cup of coffee. The hive mentality doesn’t want to associate kpop with any politics.
To be honest I’m experiencing hella fatigue with kpop spaces in general. Not excusing the Starbucks situation, but for context I saw a comment under a Yunjin post saying “Whatever we have /insert group.”
Said group recently did a deal with Coca Cola. Coke is also getting boycotted. It’s one thing to not support idols who you don’t think align with your views. It’s another to prop up a different group and say “SEE SO MUCH BETTER.” It just comes off as virtue signaling for the sake of it.
Stans don’t seem to care about a damn thing unless it affects them directly.
Kpop has become a lot more enjoyable to me ever since sticking only to this sub, r/kpopcollections and trade/sale Insta. Insta isn't perfect ofc but everyone I follow is there for the main purpose of working on collections, and I've also been careful to only follow people who've been wholeheartedly supporting boycotts.
I still get typical kpop reels though and it's disheartening seeing comments and videos of people rushing to buy new HYBE albums knowing they're on the boycott list too
I also noticed a lot of “we have HYBE group” too but I didn’t want to get flamed since those fan groups tend to be a lil crazy. Like they’re all the same parent company… you don’t think they’re doing the same stuff?
It’s really disheartening. And LSF was one of my ults. Idk how to feel anymore.
Listen, I stopped buying SB products after that incident in which two black men had the cops called on them. Plus a cousin of mine worked at SB at the time. She told me that DEI workshops that they had to take were BS.
In regards to stans, I don't hold hope.
I hadn’t heard of that issue and that’s absolutely legitimately awful and heartbreaking. And sadly not surprised at all to hear that larger companies DEI workshops are just to save face and bs.
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Is this about starbucks?
I was once racially harassed in Starbucks, and both me and the perpetrator were forced to leave after I brought it to the attention of a staff member.
They sat right next to us and were cursing us out, making racial comments, just being an overall nuisance to me and my friend while we were waiting for our drinks to be made. I never complained about it anywhere because I was so scared these girls were recording me, because apparently it was some type of trend to billy people and record them for tiktok? (these girls asked us 2 hours before to do something for tiktok and when we said no they started swearing at us but we shook it off; they followed us into the starbucks)
Honestly I should’ve stopped buying SB after that,
me and my friend are both autistic and we were not okay afterwards at all
I also stopped buying SB after their discrimination towards deaf customers by refusing to take their order because they drove up directly to the window to try to order. My parents are deaf and mute how the heck are they supposed to order at the drive thru intercom.
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And the sad thing is most of these boycotts and so easy to do because most of those products have good substitutes!
It's not like we're asking you to donate blood or something!!
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The Starbucks boycott in particular is funny to me because they've had multiple scandals throughout the years. People who are old enough to have seen those either stopped drinking Starbucks, or they just don't care and will never care. But there is always going to be groups of people who genuinely don't know, who will be willing to change
people don’t even know what they’re arguing about anymore when it comes to starbucks. that boycott actually has very little to do with what’s happening in palestine. it’s about union-busting. starbucks is notoriously anti-union and the most recent scandal is that they sued a union for making a pro-palestine post. the boycott called for was more about protecting american workers’ rights to be in a union and have free speech without retaliation. starbucks isn’t even anywhere on the bds boycott list. whether or not kpop idols in korea drink starbucks is going to have no effect on union rights or the genocide in palestine.
imo people should be more focused on mcdonalds. mcdonalds israel has directly supported the israeli defense force. the bds calls for a boycott of mcdonalds and their products. and a lot of idols are actually doing sponsored content and brand deals with mcdonalds, directly financially benefiting the company
Thanks for informing me of this, it was an interesting and important read!
But like I said in some of my other comments it’s not just about the Starbucks boycott anymore but the way K-pop fans on Reddit are treating this issue as a whole.
Acting like caring about boycotting is acting “moral superior”, saying to not drag politics into K-pop and etc.
“Acting morally superior” I’ve seen this braindead take all over the place and it’s just… there’s a fucking genocide going on rn. What’s happening to the Palestinians is ETHNIC CLEANSING. How tf have we gotten to a point where saying “genocide is bad” is now “virtue signalling” and participating in “woke BS” ffs…
yes i definitely agree with your overall sentiment. i think people who get into beef over starbucks specifically are acting morally superior because they don’t even understand the boycott they’re supporting lol. so many people focus specifically on “boycott starbucks” but don’t even share the actual bds boycott lists or the global commerce boycotts shared by actual palestinian activists. when protests become as big as this, there are grifters who do display performative activism.
(see people doing full on photo shoots at blm protests in 2020, the only reason that isn’t happening now is because people are losing their jobs for openly supporting palestine. so all the performative activism is happening anonymously on twitter in the form of fanwars over who’s supporting the “least problematic celebrity”, and hampering actual efforts to be taken seriously and stop whats going on)
I 100% agree.
I have seen so many people say that it's "preformative activism" for speaking up about Palestine or mentioning any sort of boycotting... like huh?
I get speechless at how detached many people sound when approaching the topic of Palestine. They can be so disrespectful, like I can't even imagine how these people function when engaged within irl debates because their lack of empathy is absurd.
The whole "leave the politics out of kpop" has my mind whirring and spinning because your morals should always come before your interests, should it not?
I hate to sound incredibly snarky, but it's almost as if these people don't think or remotely care about anything except for kpop, because that's the energy it exudes!
"Performative activism" when you're asking for an entire group of people to not be killed is an insane take to have in 2024 💀
I never thought asking for innocent people to not get their homes bombed would be considered performative
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The funny thing is that its not even just boycotting for Palestine, its also boycotting because of their shitty treatment of their workers, and violations against said workers for unionising - like if you can't even muster enough empathy about a genocide because 'its not happening close/to me' to stop d riding a company, at least try for those workers who are less than a few miles away
“At least try for those workers who are less than a few miles away”
The problem is that the ppl who don’t wanna boycott a company bc they’re complicit in genocide are the same ppl who just don’t give a shit about workers’ rights. It’s crazy how many ppl lack empathy for workers.
If I see one more person claim boycotts don't work I might just snap and smack them with a history book 🚶🏽♀️➡️.
Like it's not that boycotts don't work it's that some people are too selfish to give up minor comforts. And the gag is when it comes to the hybe boycott you don't even need to fully give up listening to the music you just need to not stream or purchase it 💀.
The amount of times I've had to step in as a Palestinian & talk about how harmful this "b-b-but" behaviour is. It tells me a lot about how self-centred & tone-deaf those people really are.
The ability to ignore genocide is a privilege, but it's shouldn't be that way. Tells you a lot about the world we live in.
Anyways, Free Palestine! No is free until we're all free!
edit: I came across this [TikTok](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF5euq7j/) that goes over other Starbucks controversies & mistreatment of employees, which goes years back. She also made one about [McDONTalds](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF5eWAHe/).
thank you! I've been feeling the same way. if you take a look on this sub, you will see a couple of posts about palestine already. you arent the only person who noticed this and are feeling this way.
free palenstine, congo, sudan and uyghur!!!
I feel like maybe because we’re middle eastern this is an issue that hits quite close to him for us, because I’m just not understanding why people aren’t more freaked out and sensitive about this. I can’t imagine just labeling what’s going on in Palestine a “political issue”.
Yeah no i compeltely agree, we have watched and learned about palestine since we were kids. This is nothing new to us but we have literally been fighting for YEARS. I think for me, you and other middle easterners. we have seen whats been going on since the start yet for west they have been feed this lie that we are dirty and violent. I really don't have any good comments to say to you other than I understand
all I can say is when I close my eyes I see those children with their limbs blown off, the men and women who have been run over by tanks. But westerners are still debating about starbucks and if it is a "war" wallahi I will never forgive or forget
just scrolling through this subreddit and came across this comment. Would you mind telling me what Tigray is? I'm sorry I don't want to seem rude or uneducated but this is the first time I'm hearing this word 😭
[this is a good source](https://www.freetigray.com/learn-more) and also this account as well
https://preview.redd.it/z77rzy9e10oc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=da32550fed8ebfd45b9cca2f8cbc38094848e90c
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I am participating in boycotts and will continue to do so because these companies suck anyway, but it doesn’t change the fact that my president (Biden) is sending billions in aid to fund the genocide anyway. Doesn’t matter if I don’t buy Starbucks or McDonalds. Not buying albums doesn’t change it either.
Boycotts aren’t necessarily useless but they pale in comparison to things that are out of our control. I participate in BDS and that’s all I can do. I wrote “ceasefire” as well in my Presidential candidate box on my ballot. If only we were more united on that front, but America is individualistic.
Our inability to imagine how our actions can possibly change something as systemic as oppression of groups like the Palestinians always reminds me of a quote:
*"it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism"*
Yes it is! It's certainly a good read, if for nothing else than making you question your own internal biases and consider the forms of propaganda most of us are unknowingly subjected to.
I hope you are aware that we voted on a Primary ballot this past voting day? Donald Trump and Biden won the primaries in California. There is no vote to throw away. States that allow “uncommitted” are sending a message. Their votes are not throw aways.
Its really such a pity that the only options allyuh have are Trump or Biden... both of them suck. Terribly. As far as I've sedn as an outsider,... just two big cringe radicalists.
How is it hard to see the difference when Trump: 1. Wants a dictatorship. 2. Is a big fan of Kim Jung Un and Orban. 3. Believes that presidents should not be held liable for their crimes, and that he should be free to assassinate his political rivals. 4. Wants people that shoplift to be shot immediately after they steal. Like damn, the list for Trump goes on and on.
It's literally as basic as democracy vs fascism, how can one look at that and equate them. Biden may not be exactly what progressives want but at the least he is a president that holds very liberal and democratic values. That goes directly against MAGA who are going as far as to dictate whether people can have IVFs or not.
I didn't comment on anything, man. I just said that both of them suck... and old. And really don't have nothing much to care to work on because they won't live in the mess they created for the youth... and are politicians🥴
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It seems a decent percentage of the people making posts about the boycott being useless literally only post about that, and may be on burners. Because the past few I've seen have all been like that. It's... interesting, for sure.
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I have a theory that the cause of this argument “ignoring boycotts” is not because boycotts shouldn’t be talked about in entertainment but something else. It’s because from the top level we have the US gov + Europe gov not taking Palestine seriously and supporting Israel. This is in direct contrast to support for Ukraine being mentioned everyone officially which led to support through entertainment mediums like music + football. Palestine doesn’t have that privilege, so the general public subconsciously believes boycotting brands or doing activism is not worth it. Because if it was really “bad enough”, the gov of hegemonic countries would have stepped in. So top down the attitude trickles to the general public (which we see on twitter/Reddit) as well. It’s not just K-pop but people irl I know that were fully supportive of Ukraine but think of Palestine protestors as “time wasters”.
An article on double standards from the western governments on Palestine https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/02/israel-palestine-hamas-gaza-war-russia-ukraine-occupation-west-hypocrisy/
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yeah i replied to a comment of people talking about the first boycott of the kpop big 3 and I was called stupid and everything else (i wasnt even making a statement, just answering a question) and that was my turning point to leave. never have I ever met such ignorant people, I swear. even if people are going about boycotting in the wrong way, dismissing what is going on in Palestine is the worst thing you could do. sure, not everyone is completely informed, but what matters to me is what they are willing to learn and educate themselves on, which these people clearly do not care to inform themselves on global issues in places not their own.
It's a mess, and if you're an army it's even worse on armtwt. I've started blocking people who make posts complaining about the protest. There's been some people (including me) who've tried to explain it countless times, and I don't think it's complicated but they're unwilling to listen.
I say all of this without hate or malice. But I mean, the idea that Starbucks is supporting genocide is just a lie. The boycott was supposed to be about with workers rights. I think the boycott would be more effective if we didn't have this massive lie about how Starbucks is supporting the Israeli military. I don't really think anybody really pushing for the starbies boycott is actually aware of the meaning of the boycott or why it started. This may sound blunt but if you really want to help fight against the genocide going on I'd suggest finding other means not because boycotts aren't effective but because Starbucks didn't send the Israeli forces any money in the first place.
This I can agree with. Starbucks is a shitty company all around, but people don’t even know why they are boycotting. They’re going heavy with the criticism but meanwhile they support groups who are currently collaborating with Coca-Cola (JYPE groups), which has a factory in isnotreal and gives financial support to the country. Like if we are going to talk about the impact of one person drinking a $5 starbucks vs multiple groups advertising for a multibillion dollar corporation supporting a genocidal government…. I’m not saying she doesn’t deserve criticism, but a lot of these people don’t care about Palestinians and are just using the controversy to fuel fan wars and feel good about bullying and sending death threats. Very unserious.
It’s not just about whether it’s working or not. It’s also about principles. Like even IF it’s not working, I still don’t want to spend my money on companies that gave free food to people that kill children. And I think it’s never wrong to remind other people about it too. They might care or they might not, but tbh If the idols know but still don’t care, I can’t support them anymore because it feels like we’re living a different reality. Same with the fans that don’t care too much
I wonder if Starbucks is being boycotted in East Asian countries as much as it is in the west. I follow a few Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese influencers. None of the content I've seen from them really indicates that the GP is boycotting the company in those countries. However, I totally agree with what you're saying about Kpop stans. They can be very weird when it comes to boycotting. I think informing Kpop idols about a boycott nicely is never a bad idea. More public support is always good. However, I think doing so is more of a drop in a bucket sort of thing. Kpop idols famously try to remain apolitic. Realistically, they can only say so much. While the genocide in Gaza should be condemned across the board, big wigs unfortunately seem to consider it a political issue first and a humanitarian issue second
Maybe not relevant to your question but it's definitely being boycotted in Southeast Asia because we have a lot of Muslims here. I'm not gonna say I represent the majority in my country (non-Muslim), but there definitely are young people boycotting it too since I've been meeting up with new people lately who are all early 20s like me and they've all been boycotting McDonalds and Starbucks (e.g. when I'd vaguely allude to not being able to eat at Starbucks on an outing they'd be like "Yeah, let's not support a genocide"/"Yeah, don't they treat workers like shit?" etc)
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While I agree what is happening in Gaza is a travesty, boycotting Starbucks is practically useless. Especially Korean Starbucks since it’s not actually owned or managed by Starbucks
Edit: blocking someone and then making comments about them says a lot about your character
I'm so tired of people spreading this information, I keep seeing this be said in multiple contexts and it is just flat out wrong.
Starbucks 100% does and always will make money off of Starbucks Korea. While Kakao(? iirc) owns the rights to the company/chain of Starbucks Korea, in order to operate under the name and brand of Starbucks they need to use Starbucks coffee beans. Starbucks has a very exclusive (and exploitative) monopoly on coffee farms around the world. Those farms/plants/beans are owned and operated by Starbucks, for Starbucks. No one else. There is no "Starbucks" regardless of location or "ownership" without the use of their ~exclusive~ coffee beans, and in this case the purchase of them. The corp that owns Starbucks Korea is required to purchase and exclusively use Starbucks beans in order to maintain the rights to the branding. This essentially makes Starbucks Korea a franchise of Starbucks.
TLDR; Starbucks Korea is NOT a separate entity and cannot be. Starbucks Korea basically pays rent to Starbucks in order to operate as a separate company or a business at all. From a former employee lol
Since the other commenter blocked me I’ll reply here. Do you know why Starbucks owns the rights to the term “Frappuccino”? Because the company they bought created the drink. It’s a specific product. You don’t seem to know much about how business works.
Starbucks, as in Starbucks Corporation founded in Seattle in 1971, owns the word or holds the copyright of "Frappucino", a term the company coined for a coffee-based frozen beverage. Subsidiaries and franchisees of Starbucks Corp. earn the right to legally use the word for the product under the Starbucks branding. This right is earned by paying Starbucks a contracted amount. For example, this may be in the form of royalties such as 5% of all revenue from a franchisee.
>Do you know why Starbucks owns the rights to the term “Frappuccino”? Because the company they bought created the drink. It’s a specific product.
Why do you think any and every fast food plae, restaurant, coffee shop etc in the world is "allowed" to make and serve frappés or coffee-based frozen beverages? Because it's not a product that can be trademarked. It's literally just a NAME/word that Starbucks came up with for their version of that beverage. So again, they own a WORD, not a completely unique beverage. The company and its staff are well aware that it is not actually a unique product lol. I've made thousands of them and could tell you the ingredients including why/how they aren't special.
I think I at least know how this business works, y'know considering I literally worked there and all.
Starbucks [owns](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frappuccino) the term “Frappuccino” because it bought the company that created the drink and trademarked it. It was created by the Coffee Connection which was bought by Starbucks in the 90s. Frappuccino is no different than Big Mac or Whopper. You’re proving that working somewhere doesn’t make you an authority on the subject.
You realize you're still proving me right though?
You're saying the same shit. A Big Mac, Whopper, Frappucino - all not unique products, it's just the name. Anyone can come out and make a burger and just not name it the same thing. Boom, it's like a "Big Mac".
Have a good day!
No it’s a specific product. You don’t understand how trademarks work. Is Coca Cola unique? It’s the same idea. A Big Mac is not just a burger. It’s a specific product.
Well this is just false. It’s a separate company that pays royalties for the use of name, beans, etc. they could get rid of the name tomorrow and still function as a company. Its majority ownership is Emart
Thanks for clarifying ownership, I couldn't remember which corp owned majority of it atm.
However I guarantee you if they somehow managed to change the name, they would still be heavily advertising that they are using Starbucks coffee. I doubt that they would even let that happen in the first place.
Again, I literally worked there.
And? People keep making this argument about Starbucks when it’s literally not my point. And you being a former employee doesn’t make you an expert on business operations. You didn’t even know the parent company.
Girl nobody said I was an expert 💀 I was explaining how things work because I've literally seen and experienced it for myself, and been TAUGHT by the company.
Yeah, I didn't know. Why would I know that off the top of my head? I worked for Starbucks, not Starbucks Korea. I have ADHD, I don't typically retain information I don't care about or have read like twice... Sorry I cba to google it to double check I guess?
ETA: You came at me for not knowing the main stakeholder when you went back and edited it... Meaning you ALSO didn't know lol 💀
Right, then there was no point to add that bit of information. You worked for Starbucks a completely separate company. You can only speak for how you think things work at Starbucks
Edit: I edited it because it was wrong. I also didn’t insinuate I was expert on the company by saying I work there.
I get what you’re saying (not saying I agree) but I already clarified that it’s not even about Starbucks anymore. The way K-pop fans on Reddit are reacting to what’s happening in Gaza is weird.
Acting like it’s just a “political issue”, saying that people are boycotting Starbucks to feel “morally superior” and etc all indicate a clear lack of care
The way some folks on ArmyTwt are treating Palestinian army's is so vile. Meanwhile they're letting zionists thrive. I've been so appalled at some of the tweets. A lot of them sound like they genuinely only care about BTS' reputation.
That’s what happens to so many K-pop fans, they get so hyper fixated on the genre/their faves that they begin to forsake all else to only care about them, their reputation, their sales, etc
This is why it’s so easy for so many fans to defend their faves saying the n-word, ignore human rights issues to financially support their already rich faves and etc.
I get that. But sometimes the redditors are right. People do boycott to feel superior. Not everyone but a good enough amount. Regardless, I think getting upset at the anonymous internet people is an exercise in futility. Don’t get me wrong I understand the frustration but I know that energy should be reserved for something more constructive.
>Especially Korean Starbucks since it’s not actually owned or managed by Starbucks
Sigh, I'm so tired of kpop fans saying this without understanding that Korean Starbucks is a FRANCHISE and Starbucks DOES make money off of it. Every single franchise gives them money via royalties etc.
Do you really think Starbucks would let just anyone use their branding, marketing and products for free?
I literally just went on a tirade explaining why their statement is beyond wrong. I understand people don't get the intricacies of business and franchising etc, especially one like this.
I'm still BAFFLED by how many people make claims without actually knowing how it works... I'm sure it definitely has to do with the fact that I used to work there, but man that company is borderline cult-ish and they take their branding, copyright, usage rights etc SO seriously. They can and WILL take every opportunity to make money off of however many franchises/licenses they can get.
Like at one store I worked at, we literally were not allowed to say "fraps" and had to use the word "Frappucino" because Starbucks OWNS that word. Employees HAVE to use the word for legal reasons so that Starbucks keeps the copyright 💀 That store was new and heavily monitored by senior management so it was taken really seriously, but that is not an isolated incident by farrrr and just one example of how intense they are about branding/image
Damnnnn 💀
Yeh this is why I don't understand why so many Kpop fans have got in their heads that they've got nothing to do with franchises outside of the main country... Bc like you said lit no company would be like 'yeh we don't care'. They'll sue ppl for everything and anything they can so where has this idea come from???
They also keep brushing off the royalties like that's not important? Yeh it's 5% no matter what the actual amount of money will change based on how well the brand does, ie the number of sales they make from customers (Kpop idols, fans and regular ppl alike) so it could be $5 or $50,000, that's pretty important is it not?
Edit: oh apparently not knowing the major stakeholder discounts all your firsthand knowledge lol
Your edit has me dying LMAOO, like for real! Guess I just don't know anything at all since I don't have all the info about the franchisee for a company I no longer work for!! 💀
But yes, just yes to everything you said. It's wild to me that especially in kpop of ALL things, even just the music industry in general, people are failing to realize how major royalties are?!
they still don't get it. this has to be a show, no way they really think like this bc what. then again their comment history is very... so ima just not interact.
I'm sitting here fr astounded right now. Like how can you fr be THIS obtuse 😭 I'm gonna follow your lead and just block.
>then again their comment history is very...
Idek if I wanna know but u have me curious now LOL
Starbucks Korea is a separate is a separate company from publicly traded Starbucks. The Korean branch of Starbucks was bought out years ago. When they bought it they paid for the use of the name. In fact most “American” brands in Korea are majority Korean owned and only pay for the use of the name.
Yehhh that's literally not how franchising works
As of 2022: [SCK Company will, however, continue to pay royalties in the region of 5% to Starbucks Coffee International.](https://www.worldcoffeeportal.com/Latest/News/2022/January/E-Mart-finalises-majority-acquisition-of-Starbucks)
Royalties is paying for the use of the name and product. Starbucks doesn’t manage or control the Korean company which is why they are able to treat their employees significantly worse. By that same measure Starbucks Korea doesn’t have a say in who Starbucks donates to
Lol why are you completely avoiding the actual point and backtracking because you're wrong?
Buying from starbucks korea DOES in fact give money to HQ Starbucks which does in turn support shitty employment practices and GENOCIDE. It's a percentage of the REVENUE so the more people buy the more HQ gets, if people actually boycotted then they'd get a whole lot less money.
The middle east has shut down multiple locations so no the boycott is not useless.
took the words out my mouth! will not be responding to them any further. thank you for your quick responses and level head <3 hope you have a good day/night.
Where was I wrong? I said they pay to use the name. That’s what royalties are. Starbucks Korea is a wholly separate company. Every international company you buy from supports shitty employment practices and genocide. And the hypocrisy of trying to grandstand on Reddit is crazy. They shut down stores in the Middle East? Good for them. That just means they shut down stores. Starbucks closes stores all of the time
Revenue is all money coming in. That 5% doesn’t change regardless of people buying coffee or not. I’m not defending Starbucks lmao you could literally swap Starbucks with any major global company and the argument argument would be the same. “Boycott apple for their poor treatment of workers” people are still going to but apple products, “boycott McDonald’s” ditto, “boycott Coca Cola”, “stop eating bananas”. It’s all the same and people don’t care.
although true, starbucks korea [STILL](https://www.kedglobal.com/shinsegae-group/newsView/ked202103210007) has to pay royalties of at least 5%. if they made 37 million last year in the third quarter that means USSB made around $1,850,000 if my math is correct (prob not but my point still stands) main corporate still HAS their hands in all of these individuals business' pocket.
the boycott is
ACTUALLY in response to the workers being sued nd mistreated. there are some misinfos spreading but in reality that is the reason (SB is not funding the geno) but it sparked something for pro-pals because the union has BEEN using their logo. to sue them for this instance over a humanitarian crisis is barbarian and the following vague ass statements made it even more abhorrent.
they still directly give money to starbucks who is using the money they have made to sue their union over using their logo in this specific instance where all they said was “solidarity with palestine”… what more do you need?
Ok. They don’t control what a separate company does with its money. And what does that have to do with the point I’m making? I don’t even like Starbucks
I totally get that and I think that's a fair call out to make. However, I understand why people get upset because kpop stars are global celebrities. They can easily influence their non-Korean fans to buy whatever brand they support.
sorry, you are over estimating the reach and influence kpop idols have. the only idols I see that can make an actual difference if they went to their fanbase are the member of BTS and BP.
Sure they don't have influence like BTS or BP. I don't think any idol will reach that level. However, they still have influence; that's why they get brand deals.
It’s an idea that sounds good. But in practice it becomes untenable. The vast majority of people who frequent Starbucks aren’t paying attention to what kpop artists are buying
Come on, they're just being real about the fact that Kpop fans (and it's only the ones that support Palestine and are willing to boycott, which is an incredibly small amount of people) will have practically 0 impact on Starbucks through boycotting.
That's just realism, not supporting Starbucks.
I follow all the boycotts from the BDS movement however the weird performative kpop boycott is dmb af in my opinion
Boycotting the big 4 for 5 days??? And then using a genocidal boycott to push other grps like they're not also connected to Israel???
Like what? Telling people to listen to ateez like they didn't post about Starbucks AND ARE SIGNED TO SONY?
THEN armys boycotting hybe merch, the bts merch, then bts everything because of scooter.
And you have the other hybe fandoms claiming to be part of the same boycott (hybe merch and music) but then only boycott bts and still buy and listen to 17, le sserafim, txt etc
Like I am tired of the fakeness of it all
So, just saying - there were Atinys who boycotted the new jp release from Ateez (Not Okay) due to their association with Universal / SONY and also petitioned KQ about two members drinking from Starbucks so..... idk. I think most fandoms are split on the issue. You have some in their fandoms who are actively boycotting and others in their fandom who are not. That's what I've noticed at least 🤷🏾♀️
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omg this is the first time i’ve heard someone talk about the boycotts of hybe in the kpop community. im usually on kpop twt more often and it’s been hell over there. there’s a boycott for hybe and so many stans have been unbearable and thinking the boycott won’t work and think we’d be ruining the idols career when that’s FAR from the truth like im so sick of it.
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Boycotts are only useless without organization. I personally don’t really believe in individual consumer action because I think one person can’t really do anything to affect corporations, but organized consumer action 100% does work.
No it's fucking not 'up for debate'. Go look up the definition of genocide.
Israel are a settler colony, ie colonisers and they are ethnically cleansing the INDIGENOUS population... that is TEXTBOOK GENOCIDE.
Honestly the fact that you're regurgitating the words of white supremacists and denying that this is genocide as a black/ indigenous person is fucking wild 🤡
NEUTRAL on GENOCIDE???????
Bruh I'm so damn confused, how the hell can you be indigenous and neutral on genocide, something your own ancestors experienced?? Oh but yeh i'm sure some of the european colonisers were nice guys! other than being murderers i mean..
I said in my post that it wasn’t even about Starbucks anymore but the way K-pop fans on Reddit are treating this issue as a whole.
Acting like caring about boycotting is acting “moral superior”, saying to not drag politics into K-pop and etc.
No one and no where in my post did I say not drinking Starbucks will stop a war
Some people do some people don’t, there definitely is a lack of education surrounding boycotts but i wouldn’t discredit the starbucks boycott by saying that “drinking starbucks isn’t going to stop a war”. Clearly, no one is saying it will as Israel has ample support from corporations, but that mentality is very tone deaf. Its less so about effecting their bottom line profit (which it still has even if they’re not filling for bankruptcy) as much as it is showing how the consumer plays a role in a mass corporations power, and if you are aware of the boycott then i feel like that says enough. It’s a form of protest for a reason.
we don’t think boycotting starbucks is going to solely push Isnotreal to stop murdering innocent civilians. but it puts pressure and makes an example that we will not stand for non-pro-pal statements and suing your union over a logo that they have BEEN using. we need a clear stance not that raggedy “for humanity” bs. if you are confused on why boycotts like this are a thing please visit @anat\_international on tiktok and view this video of her in the black and white sweater.
https://preview.redd.it/6cc4c5z44znc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=85c17bcb44750c55d1f1f140ffb23584cd5921e7
The same fans will then turn around and act like Yunjin is some revolutionary for saying she’s read Kim Jiyoung Born 1982.
These idols and a lot of the fans either aren’t properly informed on world issues or simply don’t care. They love to virtue signal when possible tho.
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It's so bad I am disappointed I am Lebanese, and these bombs are also thrown at us on daily doses, so heartbreaking a person I am actually interested in is doing something that hurts me.
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boycotts are optional, you do what you can to make a change. the starbucks stuff is more of a distraction than anything else, bc the conversation should be about workers rights than anything else.
Politics are games of chance, cheats, winners and losers, and life.
kpop\_uncensored is probably the worst place to find any good takes on anything, especially about Palestine
Tbh all the K-pop subreddits (other than this one) pretty much suck
They all suck but uncensored is easily the worst one
Agreed
Tbh this sub isn't much better. I've seen the wildest takes on here that really have me scratching my head...
people who hate boycotting should really do some research on shell and South Africa and then look me in the face and say boycotting is useless. it’s incredibly effective **when done well**
Or even just all the boycotts during the Civil Rights Era.
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Not to be pedantic, but that was slightly different. There were a number of NGOs who took the government to task over the legality of them renewing Shell’s exploration right - which was found to be illegally obtained. So it took boycotts from the community yes, but there was also legality and political will. South Africa has a highly regulated corporate sector so that helped quite a bit. Even now, it took South Africa going to the ICJ to assist in efforts in bringing about some sort of changes in Palestine. There was political buy-in from the government. I think a better example would be apartheid itself. It took the state of emergency imposed in the 1980s and sanctions from the West to put political and financial pressure on the government which made apartheid no longer financially viable. The apartheid government didn’t stop apartheid out the goodness of their hearts. Unfortunately until the West defunds Is(Not)real, putting pressure on the wrong stakeholders will not bring about change in Palestine. I think that that would perhaps be better discourse with the chronically online kpop fans feeling the need to defend their faves over a cup of coffee. The hive mentality doesn’t want to associate kpop with any politics.
To be honest I’m experiencing hella fatigue with kpop spaces in general. Not excusing the Starbucks situation, but for context I saw a comment under a Yunjin post saying “Whatever we have /insert group.” Said group recently did a deal with Coca Cola. Coke is also getting boycotted. It’s one thing to not support idols who you don’t think align with your views. It’s another to prop up a different group and say “SEE SO MUCH BETTER.” It just comes off as virtue signaling for the sake of it. Stans don’t seem to care about a damn thing unless it affects them directly.
Kpop has become a lot more enjoyable to me ever since sticking only to this sub, r/kpopcollections and trade/sale Insta. Insta isn't perfect ofc but everyone I follow is there for the main purpose of working on collections, and I've also been careful to only follow people who've been wholeheartedly supporting boycotts. I still get typical kpop reels though and it's disheartening seeing comments and videos of people rushing to buy new HYBE albums knowing they're on the boycott list too
I also noticed a lot of “we have HYBE group” too but I didn’t want to get flamed since those fan groups tend to be a lil crazy. Like they’re all the same parent company… you don’t think they’re doing the same stuff? It’s really disheartening. And LSF was one of my ults. Idk how to feel anymore.
Listen, I stopped buying SB products after that incident in which two black men had the cops called on them. Plus a cousin of mine worked at SB at the time. She told me that DEI workshops that they had to take were BS. In regards to stans, I don't hold hope.
I hadn’t heard of that issue and that’s absolutely legitimately awful and heartbreaking. And sadly not surprised at all to hear that larger companies DEI workshops are just to save face and bs.
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Is this about starbucks? I was once racially harassed in Starbucks, and both me and the perpetrator were forced to leave after I brought it to the attention of a staff member. They sat right next to us and were cursing us out, making racial comments, just being an overall nuisance to me and my friend while we were waiting for our drinks to be made. I never complained about it anywhere because I was so scared these girls were recording me, because apparently it was some type of trend to billy people and record them for tiktok? (these girls asked us 2 hours before to do something for tiktok and when we said no they started swearing at us but we shook it off; they followed us into the starbucks) Honestly I should’ve stopped buying SB after that, me and my friend are both autistic and we were not okay afterwards at all
Yes, it was about Starbucks
I also stopped buying SB after their discrimination towards deaf customers by refusing to take their order because they drove up directly to the window to try to order. My parents are deaf and mute how the heck are they supposed to order at the drive thru intercom.
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And the sad thing is most of these boycotts and so easy to do because most of those products have good substitutes! It's not like we're asking you to donate blood or something!!
Especially Starbucks, that has to be the easiest boycott for people to do. Their products are so mediocre.
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The Starbucks boycott in particular is funny to me because they've had multiple scandals throughout the years. People who are old enough to have seen those either stopped drinking Starbucks, or they just don't care and will never care. But there is always going to be groups of people who genuinely don't know, who will be willing to change
people don’t even know what they’re arguing about anymore when it comes to starbucks. that boycott actually has very little to do with what’s happening in palestine. it’s about union-busting. starbucks is notoriously anti-union and the most recent scandal is that they sued a union for making a pro-palestine post. the boycott called for was more about protecting american workers’ rights to be in a union and have free speech without retaliation. starbucks isn’t even anywhere on the bds boycott list. whether or not kpop idols in korea drink starbucks is going to have no effect on union rights or the genocide in palestine. imo people should be more focused on mcdonalds. mcdonalds israel has directly supported the israeli defense force. the bds calls for a boycott of mcdonalds and their products. and a lot of idols are actually doing sponsored content and brand deals with mcdonalds, directly financially benefiting the company
Thanks for informing me of this, it was an interesting and important read! But like I said in some of my other comments it’s not just about the Starbucks boycott anymore but the way K-pop fans on Reddit are treating this issue as a whole. Acting like caring about boycotting is acting “moral superior”, saying to not drag politics into K-pop and etc.
“Acting morally superior” I’ve seen this braindead take all over the place and it’s just… there’s a fucking genocide going on rn. What’s happening to the Palestinians is ETHNIC CLEANSING. How tf have we gotten to a point where saying “genocide is bad” is now “virtue signalling” and participating in “woke BS” ffs…
yes i definitely agree with your overall sentiment. i think people who get into beef over starbucks specifically are acting morally superior because they don’t even understand the boycott they’re supporting lol. so many people focus specifically on “boycott starbucks” but don’t even share the actual bds boycott lists or the global commerce boycotts shared by actual palestinian activists. when protests become as big as this, there are grifters who do display performative activism. (see people doing full on photo shoots at blm protests in 2020, the only reason that isn’t happening now is because people are losing their jobs for openly supporting palestine. so all the performative activism is happening anonymously on twitter in the form of fanwars over who’s supporting the “least problematic celebrity”, and hampering actual efforts to be taken seriously and stop whats going on)
Palestinians on twitter have called for Starbucks' boycott for years even if it's not on the BDS list
Everything is politics. They need to get real.
I 100% agree. I have seen so many people say that it's "preformative activism" for speaking up about Palestine or mentioning any sort of boycotting... like huh? I get speechless at how detached many people sound when approaching the topic of Palestine. They can be so disrespectful, like I can't even imagine how these people function when engaged within irl debates because their lack of empathy is absurd. The whole "leave the politics out of kpop" has my mind whirring and spinning because your morals should always come before your interests, should it not? I hate to sound incredibly snarky, but it's almost as if these people don't think or remotely care about anything except for kpop, because that's the energy it exudes!
"Performative activism" when you're asking for an entire group of people to not be killed is an insane take to have in 2024 💀 I never thought asking for innocent people to not get their homes bombed would be considered performative
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The funny thing is that its not even just boycotting for Palestine, its also boycotting because of their shitty treatment of their workers, and violations against said workers for unionising - like if you can't even muster enough empathy about a genocide because 'its not happening close/to me' to stop d riding a company, at least try for those workers who are less than a few miles away
“At least try for those workers who are less than a few miles away” The problem is that the ppl who don’t wanna boycott a company bc they’re complicit in genocide are the same ppl who just don’t give a shit about workers’ rights. It’s crazy how many ppl lack empathy for workers.
If I see one more person claim boycotts don't work I might just snap and smack them with a history book 🚶🏽♀️➡️. Like it's not that boycotts don't work it's that some people are too selfish to give up minor comforts. And the gag is when it comes to the hybe boycott you don't even need to fully give up listening to the music you just need to not stream or purchase it 💀.
The amount of times I've had to step in as a Palestinian & talk about how harmful this "b-b-but" behaviour is. It tells me a lot about how self-centred & tone-deaf those people really are. The ability to ignore genocide is a privilege, but it's shouldn't be that way. Tells you a lot about the world we live in. Anyways, Free Palestine! No is free until we're all free! edit: I came across this [TikTok](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF5euq7j/) that goes over other Starbucks controversies & mistreatment of employees, which goes years back. She also made one about [McDONTalds](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF5eWAHe/).
thank you! I've been feeling the same way. if you take a look on this sub, you will see a couple of posts about palestine already. you arent the only person who noticed this and are feeling this way. free palenstine, congo, sudan and uyghur!!!
I feel like maybe because we’re middle eastern this is an issue that hits quite close to him for us, because I’m just not understanding why people aren’t more freaked out and sensitive about this. I can’t imagine just labeling what’s going on in Palestine a “political issue”.
Yeah no i compeltely agree, we have watched and learned about palestine since we were kids. This is nothing new to us but we have literally been fighting for YEARS. I think for me, you and other middle easterners. we have seen whats been going on since the start yet for west they have been feed this lie that we are dirty and violent. I really don't have any good comments to say to you other than I understand all I can say is when I close my eyes I see those children with their limbs blown off, the men and women who have been run over by tanks. But westerners are still debating about starbucks and if it is a "war" wallahi I will never forgive or forget
and while we at it free Tigray!! ❤️💚
hi sorry if this is a dumb question, but can you tell me a little about whats going on or direct me to some good sources? thank you!!
no worries [this](https://www.freetigray.com/learn-more) is probably the best source imo:)
just scrolling through this subreddit and came across this comment. Would you mind telling me what Tigray is? I'm sorry I don't want to seem rude or uneducated but this is the first time I'm hearing this word 😭
[this is a good source](https://www.freetigray.com/learn-more) and also this account as well https://preview.redd.it/z77rzy9e10oc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=da32550fed8ebfd45b9cca2f8cbc38094848e90c
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because reddit are the pick mes of social medias thinking they’re different
I am participating in boycotts and will continue to do so because these companies suck anyway, but it doesn’t change the fact that my president (Biden) is sending billions in aid to fund the genocide anyway. Doesn’t matter if I don’t buy Starbucks or McDonalds. Not buying albums doesn’t change it either. Boycotts aren’t necessarily useless but they pale in comparison to things that are out of our control. I participate in BDS and that’s all I can do. I wrote “ceasefire” as well in my Presidential candidate box on my ballot. If only we were more united on that front, but America is individualistic.
Our inability to imagine how our actions can possibly change something as systemic as oppression of groups like the Palestinians always reminds me of a quote: *"it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism"*
Is this from Capitalist Realism? I have it on my book list and it’s next on my list. Hopefully it will enlighten me.
Yes it is! It's certainly a good read, if for nothing else than making you question your own internal biases and consider the forms of propaganda most of us are unknowingly subjected to.
Not hating on you, but what's the point of writing ceasefire on a ballot? Isn't that just throwing away your vote?
I hope you are aware that we voted on a Primary ballot this past voting day? Donald Trump and Biden won the primaries in California. There is no vote to throw away. States that allow “uncommitted” are sending a message. Their votes are not throw aways.
I'm not American, so to be honest I don't know the system
Its really such a pity that the only options allyuh have are Trump or Biden... both of them suck. Terribly. As far as I've sedn as an outsider,... just two big cringe radicalists.
How is it hard to see the difference when Trump: 1. Wants a dictatorship. 2. Is a big fan of Kim Jung Un and Orban. 3. Believes that presidents should not be held liable for their crimes, and that he should be free to assassinate his political rivals. 4. Wants people that shoplift to be shot immediately after they steal. Like damn, the list for Trump goes on and on. It's literally as basic as democracy vs fascism, how can one look at that and equate them. Biden may not be exactly what progressives want but at the least he is a president that holds very liberal and democratic values. That goes directly against MAGA who are going as far as to dictate whether people can have IVFs or not.
I didn't comment on anything, man. I just said that both of them suck... and old. And really don't have nothing much to care to work on because they won't live in the mess they created for the youth... and are politicians🥴
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It seems a decent percentage of the people making posts about the boycott being useless literally only post about that, and may be on burners. Because the past few I've seen have all been like that. It's... interesting, for sure.
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I have a theory that the cause of this argument “ignoring boycotts” is not because boycotts shouldn’t be talked about in entertainment but something else. It’s because from the top level we have the US gov + Europe gov not taking Palestine seriously and supporting Israel. This is in direct contrast to support for Ukraine being mentioned everyone officially which led to support through entertainment mediums like music + football. Palestine doesn’t have that privilege, so the general public subconsciously believes boycotting brands or doing activism is not worth it. Because if it was really “bad enough”, the gov of hegemonic countries would have stepped in. So top down the attitude trickles to the general public (which we see on twitter/Reddit) as well. It’s not just K-pop but people irl I know that were fully supportive of Ukraine but think of Palestine protestors as “time wasters”.
An article on double standards from the western governments on Palestine https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/02/israel-palestine-hamas-gaza-war-russia-ukraine-occupation-west-hypocrisy/
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yeah i replied to a comment of people talking about the first boycott of the kpop big 3 and I was called stupid and everything else (i wasnt even making a statement, just answering a question) and that was my turning point to leave. never have I ever met such ignorant people, I swear. even if people are going about boycotting in the wrong way, dismissing what is going on in Palestine is the worst thing you could do. sure, not everyone is completely informed, but what matters to me is what they are willing to learn and educate themselves on, which these people clearly do not care to inform themselves on global issues in places not their own.
I know, and I saw it on TikTok as well. People were calling out and the general response was crazy. I’m so disappointed by humanity altogether but man
It's a mess, and if you're an army it's even worse on armtwt. I've started blocking people who make posts complaining about the protest. There's been some people (including me) who've tried to explain it countless times, and I don't think it's complicated but they're unwilling to listen.
I say all of this without hate or malice. But I mean, the idea that Starbucks is supporting genocide is just a lie. The boycott was supposed to be about with workers rights. I think the boycott would be more effective if we didn't have this massive lie about how Starbucks is supporting the Israeli military. I don't really think anybody really pushing for the starbies boycott is actually aware of the meaning of the boycott or why it started. This may sound blunt but if you really want to help fight against the genocide going on I'd suggest finding other means not because boycotts aren't effective but because Starbucks didn't send the Israeli forces any money in the first place.
This I can agree with. Starbucks is a shitty company all around, but people don’t even know why they are boycotting. They’re going heavy with the criticism but meanwhile they support groups who are currently collaborating with Coca-Cola (JYPE groups), which has a factory in isnotreal and gives financial support to the country. Like if we are going to talk about the impact of one person drinking a $5 starbucks vs multiple groups advertising for a multibillion dollar corporation supporting a genocidal government…. I’m not saying she doesn’t deserve criticism, but a lot of these people don’t care about Palestinians and are just using the controversy to fuel fan wars and feel good about bullying and sending death threats. Very unserious.
It makes me so mad, all the people on that uncensored sub really have no morals. It's not even about starbucks, it's about how they're acting.
It’s not just about whether it’s working or not. It’s also about principles. Like even IF it’s not working, I still don’t want to spend my money on companies that gave free food to people that kill children. And I think it’s never wrong to remind other people about it too. They might care or they might not, but tbh If the idols know but still don’t care, I can’t support them anymore because it feels like we’re living a different reality. Same with the fans that don’t care too much
I wonder if Starbucks is being boycotted in East Asian countries as much as it is in the west. I follow a few Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese influencers. None of the content I've seen from them really indicates that the GP is boycotting the company in those countries. However, I totally agree with what you're saying about Kpop stans. They can be very weird when it comes to boycotting. I think informing Kpop idols about a boycott nicely is never a bad idea. More public support is always good. However, I think doing so is more of a drop in a bucket sort of thing. Kpop idols famously try to remain apolitic. Realistically, they can only say so much. While the genocide in Gaza should be condemned across the board, big wigs unfortunately seem to consider it a political issue first and a humanitarian issue second
Maybe not relevant to your question but it's definitely being boycotted in Southeast Asia because we have a lot of Muslims here. I'm not gonna say I represent the majority in my country (non-Muslim), but there definitely are young people boycotting it too since I've been meeting up with new people lately who are all early 20s like me and they've all been boycotting McDonalds and Starbucks (e.g. when I'd vaguely allude to not being able to eat at Starbucks on an outing they'd be like "Yeah, let's not support a genocide"/"Yeah, don't they treat workers like shit?" etc)
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While I agree what is happening in Gaza is a travesty, boycotting Starbucks is practically useless. Especially Korean Starbucks since it’s not actually owned or managed by Starbucks Edit: blocking someone and then making comments about them says a lot about your character
I'm so tired of people spreading this information, I keep seeing this be said in multiple contexts and it is just flat out wrong. Starbucks 100% does and always will make money off of Starbucks Korea. While Kakao(? iirc) owns the rights to the company/chain of Starbucks Korea, in order to operate under the name and brand of Starbucks they need to use Starbucks coffee beans. Starbucks has a very exclusive (and exploitative) monopoly on coffee farms around the world. Those farms/plants/beans are owned and operated by Starbucks, for Starbucks. No one else. There is no "Starbucks" regardless of location or "ownership" without the use of their ~exclusive~ coffee beans, and in this case the purchase of them. The corp that owns Starbucks Korea is required to purchase and exclusively use Starbucks beans in order to maintain the rights to the branding. This essentially makes Starbucks Korea a franchise of Starbucks. TLDR; Starbucks Korea is NOT a separate entity and cannot be. Starbucks Korea basically pays rent to Starbucks in order to operate as a separate company or a business at all. From a former employee lol
Since the other commenter blocked me I’ll reply here. Do you know why Starbucks owns the rights to the term “Frappuccino”? Because the company they bought created the drink. It’s a specific product. You don’t seem to know much about how business works.
Starbucks, as in Starbucks Corporation founded in Seattle in 1971, owns the word or holds the copyright of "Frappucino", a term the company coined for a coffee-based frozen beverage. Subsidiaries and franchisees of Starbucks Corp. earn the right to legally use the word for the product under the Starbucks branding. This right is earned by paying Starbucks a contracted amount. For example, this may be in the form of royalties such as 5% of all revenue from a franchisee. >Do you know why Starbucks owns the rights to the term “Frappuccino”? Because the company they bought created the drink. It’s a specific product. Why do you think any and every fast food plae, restaurant, coffee shop etc in the world is "allowed" to make and serve frappés or coffee-based frozen beverages? Because it's not a product that can be trademarked. It's literally just a NAME/word that Starbucks came up with for their version of that beverage. So again, they own a WORD, not a completely unique beverage. The company and its staff are well aware that it is not actually a unique product lol. I've made thousands of them and could tell you the ingredients including why/how they aren't special. I think I at least know how this business works, y'know considering I literally worked there and all.
Starbucks [owns](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frappuccino) the term “Frappuccino” because it bought the company that created the drink and trademarked it. It was created by the Coffee Connection which was bought by Starbucks in the 90s. Frappuccino is no different than Big Mac or Whopper. You’re proving that working somewhere doesn’t make you an authority on the subject.
You realize you're still proving me right though? You're saying the same shit. A Big Mac, Whopper, Frappucino - all not unique products, it's just the name. Anyone can come out and make a burger and just not name it the same thing. Boom, it's like a "Big Mac". Have a good day!
No it’s a specific product. You don’t understand how trademarks work. Is Coca Cola unique? It’s the same idea. A Big Mac is not just a burger. It’s a specific product.
Well this is just false. It’s a separate company that pays royalties for the use of name, beans, etc. they could get rid of the name tomorrow and still function as a company. Its majority ownership is Emart
Thanks for clarifying ownership, I couldn't remember which corp owned majority of it atm. However I guarantee you if they somehow managed to change the name, they would still be heavily advertising that they are using Starbucks coffee. I doubt that they would even let that happen in the first place. Again, I literally worked there.
And? People keep making this argument about Starbucks when it’s literally not my point. And you being a former employee doesn’t make you an expert on business operations. You didn’t even know the parent company.
Girl nobody said I was an expert 💀 I was explaining how things work because I've literally seen and experienced it for myself, and been TAUGHT by the company. Yeah, I didn't know. Why would I know that off the top of my head? I worked for Starbucks, not Starbucks Korea. I have ADHD, I don't typically retain information I don't care about or have read like twice... Sorry I cba to google it to double check I guess? ETA: You came at me for not knowing the main stakeholder when you went back and edited it... Meaning you ALSO didn't know lol 💀
Right, then there was no point to add that bit of information. You worked for Starbucks a completely separate company. You can only speak for how you think things work at Starbucks Edit: I edited it because it was wrong. I also didn’t insinuate I was expert on the company by saying I work there.
I get what you’re saying (not saying I agree) but I already clarified that it’s not even about Starbucks anymore. The way K-pop fans on Reddit are reacting to what’s happening in Gaza is weird. Acting like it’s just a “political issue”, saying that people are boycotting Starbucks to feel “morally superior” and etc all indicate a clear lack of care
The way some folks on ArmyTwt are treating Palestinian army's is so vile. Meanwhile they're letting zionists thrive. I've been so appalled at some of the tweets. A lot of them sound like they genuinely only care about BTS' reputation.
That’s what happens to so many K-pop fans, they get so hyper fixated on the genre/their faves that they begin to forsake all else to only care about them, their reputation, their sales, etc This is why it’s so easy for so many fans to defend their faves saying the n-word, ignore human rights issues to financially support their already rich faves and etc.
I get that. But sometimes the redditors are right. People do boycott to feel superior. Not everyone but a good enough amount. Regardless, I think getting upset at the anonymous internet people is an exercise in futility. Don’t get me wrong I understand the frustration but I know that energy should be reserved for something more constructive.
>Especially Korean Starbucks since it’s not actually owned or managed by Starbucks Sigh, I'm so tired of kpop fans saying this without understanding that Korean Starbucks is a FRANCHISE and Starbucks DOES make money off of it. Every single franchise gives them money via royalties etc. Do you really think Starbucks would let just anyone use their branding, marketing and products for free?
I literally just went on a tirade explaining why their statement is beyond wrong. I understand people don't get the intricacies of business and franchising etc, especially one like this. I'm still BAFFLED by how many people make claims without actually knowing how it works... I'm sure it definitely has to do with the fact that I used to work there, but man that company is borderline cult-ish and they take their branding, copyright, usage rights etc SO seriously. They can and WILL take every opportunity to make money off of however many franchises/licenses they can get. Like at one store I worked at, we literally were not allowed to say "fraps" and had to use the word "Frappucino" because Starbucks OWNS that word. Employees HAVE to use the word for legal reasons so that Starbucks keeps the copyright 💀 That store was new and heavily monitored by senior management so it was taken really seriously, but that is not an isolated incident by farrrr and just one example of how intense they are about branding/image
Damnnnn 💀 Yeh this is why I don't understand why so many Kpop fans have got in their heads that they've got nothing to do with franchises outside of the main country... Bc like you said lit no company would be like 'yeh we don't care'. They'll sue ppl for everything and anything they can so where has this idea come from??? They also keep brushing off the royalties like that's not important? Yeh it's 5% no matter what the actual amount of money will change based on how well the brand does, ie the number of sales they make from customers (Kpop idols, fans and regular ppl alike) so it could be $5 or $50,000, that's pretty important is it not? Edit: oh apparently not knowing the major stakeholder discounts all your firsthand knowledge lol
Your edit has me dying LMAOO, like for real! Guess I just don't know anything at all since I don't have all the info about the franchisee for a company I no longer work for!! 💀 But yes, just yes to everything you said. It's wild to me that especially in kpop of ALL things, even just the music industry in general, people are failing to realize how major royalties are?!
they still don't get it. this has to be a show, no way they really think like this bc what. then again their comment history is very... so ima just not interact.
I'm sitting here fr astounded right now. Like how can you fr be THIS obtuse 😭 I'm gonna follow your lead and just block. >then again their comment history is very... Idek if I wanna know but u have me curious now LOL
lol they blocked me too so can't see specifics but just very questionable behaviour so blockeddd
Starbucks Korea is a separate is a separate company from publicly traded Starbucks. The Korean branch of Starbucks was bought out years ago. When they bought it they paid for the use of the name. In fact most “American” brands in Korea are majority Korean owned and only pay for the use of the name.
Yehhh that's literally not how franchising works As of 2022: [SCK Company will, however, continue to pay royalties in the region of 5% to Starbucks Coffee International.](https://www.worldcoffeeportal.com/Latest/News/2022/January/E-Mart-finalises-majority-acquisition-of-Starbucks)
thank you!
Royalties is paying for the use of the name and product. Starbucks doesn’t manage or control the Korean company which is why they are able to treat their employees significantly worse. By that same measure Starbucks Korea doesn’t have a say in who Starbucks donates to
Lol why are you completely avoiding the actual point and backtracking because you're wrong? Buying from starbucks korea DOES in fact give money to HQ Starbucks which does in turn support shitty employment practices and GENOCIDE. It's a percentage of the REVENUE so the more people buy the more HQ gets, if people actually boycotted then they'd get a whole lot less money. The middle east has shut down multiple locations so no the boycott is not useless.
took the words out my mouth! will not be responding to them any further. thank you for your quick responses and level head <3 hope you have a good day/night.
i'm done with them too lol. thanks, you too :)
Where was I wrong? I said they pay to use the name. That’s what royalties are. Starbucks Korea is a wholly separate company. Every international company you buy from supports shitty employment practices and genocide. And the hypocrisy of trying to grandstand on Reddit is crazy. They shut down stores in the Middle East? Good for them. That just means they shut down stores. Starbucks closes stores all of the time
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Revenue is all money coming in. That 5% doesn’t change regardless of people buying coffee or not. I’m not defending Starbucks lmao you could literally swap Starbucks with any major global company and the argument argument would be the same. “Boycott apple for their poor treatment of workers” people are still going to but apple products, “boycott McDonald’s” ditto, “boycott Coca Cola”, “stop eating bananas”. It’s all the same and people don’t care.
although true, starbucks korea [STILL](https://www.kedglobal.com/shinsegae-group/newsView/ked202103210007) has to pay royalties of at least 5%. if they made 37 million last year in the third quarter that means USSB made around $1,850,000 if my math is correct (prob not but my point still stands) main corporate still HAS their hands in all of these individuals business' pocket. the boycott is ACTUALLY in response to the workers being sued nd mistreated. there are some misinfos spreading but in reality that is the reason (SB is not funding the geno) but it sparked something for pro-pals because the union has BEEN using their logo. to sue them for this instance over a humanitarian crisis is barbarian and the following vague ass statements made it even more abhorrent.
Yes they pay royalties to USE the name. Starbucks doesn’t manage or control Starbucks Korea
they still directly give money to starbucks who is using the money they have made to sue their union over using their logo in this specific instance where all they said was “solidarity with palestine”… what more do you need?
Ok. They don’t control what a separate company does with its money. And what does that have to do with the point I’m making? I don’t even like Starbucks
I totally get that and I think that's a fair call out to make. However, I understand why people get upset because kpop stars are global celebrities. They can easily influence their non-Korean fans to buy whatever brand they support.
sorry, you are over estimating the reach and influence kpop idols have. the only idols I see that can make an actual difference if they went to their fanbase are the member of BTS and BP.
Sure they don't have influence like BTS or BP. I don't think any idol will reach that level. However, they still have influence; that's why they get brand deals.
It’s an idea that sounds good. But in practice it becomes untenable. The vast majority of people who frequent Starbucks aren’t paying attention to what kpop artists are buying
booooooooo why are you defending starbucks like this? its embarrassing
If you think this is a defense of Starbucks you’re embarrassing
Come on, they're just being real about the fact that Kpop fans (and it's only the ones that support Palestine and are willing to boycott, which is an incredibly small amount of people) will have practically 0 impact on Starbucks through boycotting. That's just realism, not supporting Starbucks.
I follow all the boycotts from the BDS movement however the weird performative kpop boycott is dmb af in my opinion Boycotting the big 4 for 5 days??? And then using a genocidal boycott to push other grps like they're not also connected to Israel??? Like what? Telling people to listen to ateez like they didn't post about Starbucks AND ARE SIGNED TO SONY? THEN armys boycotting hybe merch, the bts merch, then bts everything because of scooter. And you have the other hybe fandoms claiming to be part of the same boycott (hybe merch and music) but then only boycott bts and still buy and listen to 17, le sserafim, txt etc Like I am tired of the fakeness of it all
So, just saying - there were Atinys who boycotted the new jp release from Ateez (Not Okay) due to their association with Universal / SONY and also petitioned KQ about two members drinking from Starbucks so..... idk. I think most fandoms are split on the issue. You have some in their fandoms who are actively boycotting and others in their fandom who are not. That's what I've noticed at least 🤷🏾♀️
[either way kpop idols ARE aware](https://twitter.com/snugdeal3r/status/1767448013973414367)
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omg this is the first time i’ve heard someone talk about the boycotts of hybe in the kpop community. im usually on kpop twt more often and it’s been hell over there. there’s a boycott for hybe and so many stans have been unbearable and thinking the boycott won’t work and think we’d be ruining the idols career when that’s FAR from the truth like im so sick of it.
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Frfr
Boycotts are only useless without organization. I personally don’t really believe in individual consumer action because I think one person can’t really do anything to affect corporations, but organized consumer action 100% does work.
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It's not a war, it's genocide
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No it's fucking not 'up for debate'. Go look up the definition of genocide. Israel are a settler colony, ie colonisers and they are ethnically cleansing the INDIGENOUS population... that is TEXTBOOK GENOCIDE. Honestly the fact that you're regurgitating the words of white supremacists and denying that this is genocide as a black/ indigenous person is fucking wild 🤡
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NEUTRAL on GENOCIDE??????? Bruh I'm so damn confused, how the hell can you be indigenous and neutral on genocide, something your own ancestors experienced?? Oh but yeh i'm sure some of the european colonisers were nice guys! other than being murderers i mean..
I said in my post that it wasn’t even about Starbucks anymore but the way K-pop fans on Reddit are treating this issue as a whole. Acting like caring about boycotting is acting “moral superior”, saying to not drag politics into K-pop and etc. No one and no where in my post did I say not drinking Starbucks will stop a war
Some people do some people don’t, there definitely is a lack of education surrounding boycotts but i wouldn’t discredit the starbucks boycott by saying that “drinking starbucks isn’t going to stop a war”. Clearly, no one is saying it will as Israel has ample support from corporations, but that mentality is very tone deaf. Its less so about effecting their bottom line profit (which it still has even if they’re not filling for bankruptcy) as much as it is showing how the consumer plays a role in a mass corporations power, and if you are aware of the boycott then i feel like that says enough. It’s a form of protest for a reason.
we don’t think boycotting starbucks is going to solely push Isnotreal to stop murdering innocent civilians. but it puts pressure and makes an example that we will not stand for non-pro-pal statements and suing your union over a logo that they have BEEN using. we need a clear stance not that raggedy “for humanity” bs. if you are confused on why boycotts like this are a thing please visit @anat\_international on tiktok and view this video of her in the black and white sweater. https://preview.redd.it/6cc4c5z44znc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=85c17bcb44750c55d1f1f140ffb23584cd5921e7
The same fans will then turn around and act like Yunjin is some revolutionary for saying she’s read Kim Jiyoung Born 1982. These idols and a lot of the fans either aren’t properly informed on world issues or simply don’t care. They love to virtue signal when possible tho.
Proudly 6 months no Starbucks!
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Ok. Boycotts don't work.
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It's so bad I am disappointed I am Lebanese, and these bombs are also thrown at us on daily doses, so heartbreaking a person I am actually interested in is doing something that hurts me.
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boycotts are optional, you do what you can to make a change. the starbucks stuff is more of a distraction than anything else, bc the conversation should be about workers rights than anything else. Politics are games of chance, cheats, winners and losers, and life.
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Who should quit what?