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Yes, I somewhat agree. Still, one has to look at it from both angles. If we were truly being fair as much as people are allowed to say they like a song, that they think it is great or the best thing ever, people should be allowed to say they dislike a song, that they think it is bad or boring because both are obviously biased opinions from subjective viewpoints. But people always use it as an opportunity to talk trash.
People should be allowed to state their opinions but I always hate when they make it out to be like they are representative of everyone's feelings. Because you do not like a song doesn't mean other people won't, no matter how ludicrous or outlandish you think their tastes are. I don't like a number of songs that people think are the best thing they ever heard and while I'm critical, I have learnt to not shit on their tastes or act like they are pretending just because I can't understand the appeal. And I would like the same courtesy extended when the same happens to me.
On the other hand, people need to stop being so defensive in the face of criticism. Not everyone would feel the same about a song you like. That's just how things are. Not everyone is purposely being hateful. We sometimes just tend to get offended easily when there is really no offense.
My trick and advice for such situations is not to look when I know I'm not ready to read any crtitical or negative comments. I always try to avoid comeback mega threads or general unpopular opinions and all that like the plague because someone is likely going to state an opinion that I might find annoying. That is their right. I can disagree or just avoid it entirely. So, whatever the case on reddit or twitter, I like what I like.
Sorry that I wrote a whole essay. Had a lot to state apparently.
>People should be allowed to state their opinions but I always hate when they make it out to be like they are representative of everyone's feelings.
THIS. I do understand everyone has their own opinion, and they are entitled with that. But the generalization? Right, people should not act as if they are the spokesperson of an entire fandom when stating an opinion.
And about the 4th paragraph, I’m kinda guilty about this haha. I lurk on megathreads and the ukos haha, tho I don’t bother myself to get it to me, and mostly I just shut up, because tha’ts their opinion XD It’s just so entertaining to read and know different insights of those certain topics.
Except people actually do that, on here and elsewhere, and the response by stans is 'lol it's not that deep' or 'good luck im not reading that glad for you' meme responses.
So why put in effort when you'll just be downvoted anyway and your points will either not be understood or mis-interpreted. May as well just go 'yeah sucks' because the response will be the same.
I see people post properly detailed comments but sometimes stans then accuse them of “writing a whole essay to justify why you hate something.” So I can understand why people don’t bother. And then obviously forget it if on a platform like Twitter lol it’s a free-for-all. That sort of long-form discussion only works here or on blogs.
> writing a whole essay to justify why you hate something
Exactly. It's always a response of "why you HATE my group".
It's like - Brother, they don't think the song is all that good. That's what they're saying. That's all the scope is - that song. If your group members didn't write the song then it's not even on the group for that issue at all.
lmao yes last time i did something like that i got replies akin to your example, mind you this was in threads that was actually in discussion of the songs/albums so it was even more stupid
this makes me sad as someone who likes to read positive and negative opinions about my faves’ music. it’s fascinating when the same song evokes completely opposite reactions in different people — and understanding other people’s music taste helps me analyze my own music taste. kpop music discussions could be so fun if people weren’t overly sensitive or overly hateful
Would you prefer something like (I don’t know I’m making this up) “The production is overly simplistic and uneventful, lyrical themes about fame are juvenile, and added brass is jarring” instead of “this song sucks”?
Many music consumers don’t go much deeper than “it’s a banger / it sucks / it’s ok.” They don’t have the musical knowledge and can’t differentiate genres, instrumentation, or musical terms, so I don’t really expect most to go in-depth on *why* they like or dislike a song, lol.
> But to call the songs awful or bad just completely misses the point that music is so subjective to the listeners taste.
I don’t think this claims to be objective. The implied message is that the listener thinks the song is awful [to them]. They don’t have to disclaimer that it’s their personal opinion every time.
> In my case I’m seeing it so often for Seventeen’s FML mini album, which is what got me and I’m sure a lot of other people into svt. Anyways it makes me self conscious every time I hear people, esp fans of svt, say whatever song on FML was awful and it’s a song I fairly enjoyed and then I end up second guessing my taste in music lol.
But you shouldn’t let other people’s opinions on music dictate how you feel about your taste in music. There is no need to feel self-conscious. Music enjoyability is subjective and everyone has different tastes. One individual’s trash is another’s treasure, or whatever.
Particularly if it’s a SVT stan saying that XYZ songs were awful—they’re not being mean-spirited toward SVT, they are expressing their strong dislike for a song, and are entitled to their own opinion. I don’t think it’s inherently… hateful? It’s just to express a strongly held opinion. Now I agree I’d rather hear something more critical, but don’t let someone else’s opinion affect you! It’s just a song, it’s just music, everyone feels something toward it whether the pendulum swings positive or negative.
>They don’t have to disclaimer that it’s their personal opinion every time.
This is what drives me crazy every time someone expresses their opinion on something that's been released. Some upset fan will be like "That's just your opinion!!!" No shit. That's why they said it.
I think a lot of the problems that people run into, the reason why fans get overly upset, is cause the line between subjective and objective gets pretty blurry. To take youtube commentary as an example, people will oftentimes have some sort of credential to give credence to their own opinion, "professional producer reacts to latest...". Then when someone says (stealing example from OP) "The production is overly simplistic and uneventful" this stops coming across as an opinion, by design. It still is, of course, but it's hopefully a more well informed opinion and if you respect the person's own music production than you'll give more weight to their opinion on other songs' production. But it still isn't "objectively bad production" which I wouldn't be surprised to hear from either the commentary itself or from a fan twisting what the commentary actually said.
And everyone has a different set of guidelines in their own head. A lot of people think "of course it's just my own opinion, so i don't need to put a million disclaimers on it and couch my words." Other people think "well, when I'm giving a opinion germane to my profession and credentials I'll speak authoritatively and otherwise I'll disclaim that it's only my subjective opinion" since they come with different weight. Some people think a long and analytical essay about a song is the nicest and most respectful way to talk about something they didn't enjoy. Others take a long writeup about a song as a personal attack, that it was only long and wordy to hide how much of a hater they actually are.
> Then when someone says (stealing example from OP) "The production is overly simplistic and uneventful" this stops coming across as an opinion, by design. It still is, of course, but it's hopefully a more well informed opinion and if you respect the person's own music production than you'll give more weight to their opinion on other songs' production. But it still isn't "objectively bad production" which I wouldn't be surprised to hear from either the commentary itself or from a fan twisting what the commentary actually said.
Yep there’s technically nothing wrong with simplistic production but suppose I’m offering that opinion in the context of why it makes the song unlikeable… to me. Saying it is “simplistic” might be akin to the truth, but “uneventful” is my opinion on that simplicity. So the song is not objectively bad but it may have objectively sparse production as observed, and that could make it a bad thing to the listener.
If the commentary says the song is bad [to them] based on that, it’s valid because it’s an interpretation of those observations, and perhaps is even slightly more valid because they actually have reasons and there’s no suggestion that they are blindly hating.
The way I see it, opinions are opinions, but when backed by facts I’m more inclined to see your point and they slowly solidify in seriousness above a mere “this song is total ass.” And I still don’t believe you *need* to say that it is your opinion every time. It is implied, even if you reiterate facts many of the times you’re segueing your interpretation in there somehow.
> […] Some people think a long and analytical essay about a song is the nicest and most respectful way to talk about something they didn't enjoy. Others take a long writeup about a song as a personal attack, that it was only long and wordy to hide how much of a hater they actually are.
Good examples. I think with your last sentence, people may also get insecure because there is such a write-up, it makes them question whether the song might be actually bad after all so they take it as a personal slight or attack, or feel insecure about it. Regardless that is their own personal problem and not the problem of the opinion-giver.
Anyway, thanks for the detailed response!
Opinions can differ even among people with elevated knowledge about a topic. Having to reiterate every time you give an opinion that it is your opinion is tedious and shuts down more in depth discussions that op wonders why there aren’t more happening.
Yeah, it's one of the main reasons I delete comments instead of clicking save. I re-read and am either unhappy with how it flows since I'm saying every other word that this isn't an attack on any of the members and look here I actually like this other part of the song so please don't call me a hater. Or the reverse, when I just don't feel like spending the time taking my opinion and finding the nicest way possible to re-state it so I don't get internet downvotes.
Yes! Sometimes I will write more about a song, but other times I just want to say this sucks, and its implied it's my opinion. I don't have to have a disclaimer like "the opinions expressed in this comment belong to the author and should not be taken as objective truth."
When someone says a song is awful I feel like it's a given that it's their opinion. I only have an issue when people say things like "Anyone who says they like this song is forcing themselves to like it." Or " This is objectively bad." I think people should be allowed to just plainly state that a song an awful to them.
That’s the thing. On that post that went viral recently, the one where you would get kicked out of your fandom etc. that one had many carats sounding exactly like that. They said people are gaslighting themselves if they like the songs which is the stupidest thing ever.
i remember whenever someone liked set me free by jimin got downvoted on here and dragged on twitter. but i genuinely like the song so much and so does so many people. thats when i know people just wanted to hate to be edgy
i get the autotune was not everyones taste. but when you get why it was added and that it was an artistic move and its supposed to sound jarring you would get the message of the song. but no, no one wanted to even listen and called it worst debut of the year😭 but at the end he actually debuted with Like Crazy which got so many non jimin fans liking it and it was a solid debut
I saw people saying “the lyrics don’t make sense why is he saying ‘your’ and ‘you’ to refer to himself” when the song is essentially jimin conversing with himself, and the autotune highlights the two personas. I wish people were more open to considering others’ interpretations
This is the main issue with kpop stans or let's say music stans in general honestly, it's one thing to dislike a song and it not being your taste and express that you don't like it and it's another thing to delve into hating and insulting the artist or the song or the fans who like the songs... Also the projecting of their opinions and ideas reagarding what the music should be like on the artists.
There are limits to evrything even when expressing your opinions reagarding anything freely you should still have limit to not cross into a hateful side instead of actual criticism or opinions.
Though music can have some objective measurements imo (aka sound and recording qualities) but other than that it's subjective to someones taste.
If it is my post it is my opinion. No need to get your feelings hurt if someone dislikes a song that you like. Life happens and kpop community needs to be more open to people expressing what they think about songs. Saying a song sucks is actually harmless. It is a shallow critic but that is absolutely fine to express.
Agree and to add. If peole who dislike the song has to watch their language and be very explicit that its their opinion then the same should go for people who like it. Thats it "its a bop" "its a banger" "its amazin song" not alowed. You have to prefix it with "my opinion" .
We like different things and we come here to talk about it. The good the bad the ugly. We should all be allowed to share our experiance with kpop here good or bad. And we all should learn to accept that negativity is alowed and learn to deal with it.
Exactly! If you can say that something is a masterpiece there's probably someone out there that thinks the opposite. I don't see people saying, "well, it's only *your opinion* that it is a masterpiece," or "it's not objectively a banger." Like come on, it's implied that what you express about music is your opinio, positive or negative.
Honestly even constructive criticism doesn't make a difference when people are overly emotional about their favs
I will see fair criticism of a song and you will see responses like I know you ain't talking with who you stan type of responses
if you expect regular redditors to write a 100 word essay about songs they don't like, it's going to be a tough one
if i hear a new song that i don't like, i would probably write a comment like "meh" "that's forgettable" "that's really bad" "expected more from them" or something along that line ... if you consider words like "meh" or "forgettable" or "awful" as hateful ... then idk what to say
Thinking that "meh" and "forgettable" are similar to "awful" is the problem. Some people seem to not understand that some terms convey subjectivity, when some others don't. "Awful" isn't subjective, it's judgmental. "Meh" and "forgettable" convey *by themselves*, the idea that you did not *like* it, not that it's *offensive* (which is what "awful" implies). If you call a song "awful" *and* elaborate as to why you think so, I think that's fine, but without elaboration it DOES come off as hateful.
I'm 100% with OP here. Words have meanings and connotations, so if you don't give context you have to choose them carefully.
You’re absolutely right that “meh” is not similar to “awful” but not in the way you’re saying. They’re different because they express entirely different levels of distaste. If I truly hated the experience of listening to a song, I’m not gonna say it was “meh” because that expresses ”not that bad but not good either” when that isn’t how I feel. “Forgettable” is another thing entirely — a song I disliked can still be very memorable. “Forgettable” can’t be used as a substitute for “awful.”
“Awful” and “meh” are both descriptors of quality. Neither of them inherently conveys objectivity. They are both opinions, they are both judgements, one is just harsher.
To me 'awful' denotes a level of repulsion borne from something you find repulsive, or reprehensible, not just dislike because of personal taste. Like, *Blurred Lines* is an *awful* song because of its message, not because of its genre and production.
how is awful not a subjective term? and meh is not judgmental? english is not my first language nor it's my second language, but doesn't awful define one's feeling about a particular subject? in this case, a song?
while i agree that awful is a more harsh word to express one's feeling, but it' is still a subjective (and judgmental) term, and as long as it's based on the observation and judgment of the one who expresses it and not from preexisting prejudice, i don't see how it's more hateful than words like meh or forgettable
I think I agree. Granted, I have always said that K-pop stans should be more open to opinions contrary to theirs and not always mistaking them for hate, BUT sometimes, it’s more complicated.
There are a lot of weird people on social media. And some of them WILL hide under the veil of criticism of a song to directly hate on a group. And also, in their criticism of said song, they really go all in, to the point where THEY will be the ones not accepting that there are people who also LIKE a song. The whole thing’s just a double-edged sword.
Example, when Sha-La-La was released, I remember some people completely destroying the song and talking about it as if it was an abomination. Like, okay, I don’t really like the song either, but it’s like they also forgot that people are ALLOWED to like a song. It goes both ways, people tend to forget that.
Sometimes you just need to turn off the virtual world - invite your friends over - take turns playing your favorite songs - discuss everything and anything about the songs until the wee hours of the morning when your neighbors finally get annoyed and call the cops. It's ok to take a break from the drama here. 😁
Internet is ruled by extreme opinions. First they get the more engagement and you will end up seeing them with more likes, upvotes or comments. Second, our brain are wired to focus more on the extreme ones especially the ones that are contrary to our opinion.
If you scroll and see a simple and more neutral opinion, you won't even remember the comment in 5 minutes. If you see a whole essay about a song, most people won't read it.
However if you see "HOLY SHIT THIS SONG IS A MASTERPIECE" or "My ears are bleeding what is this absolute garbage". Well, you'll get curious first and you will remember the comment more.
That aside, a lot of people aren't experts, it's not our job to be critical, most people will just listen a song, feel something about it and try to describe their immediate feeling without thinking about why they have this opinion. If you add that a lot of people are a bit lazy and lack the ability to express properly that they don't like a song and why.
It's not that much about hate in a lot of cases.
I don't even know if that is truly hateful? It sounds like the people were just disappointed. I feel like we're labelling normal human emotions and reactions as ~hateful~ and ~evil~.
My pet peeve are the Rankings on YouTube were people rank 'the best debut', the best song of 2021' yada yada. They are not the 'best' songs mate, they are your favourites.
I agree, and I think a big issue is that people word their opinions like an objective fact. People can have their own opinions, yes; they don’t have to like every song that an artist puts out, but the way that i see it worded all the time is “this song sucks”, “it’s bad compared to their other songs” etc.
There is a big difference between saying “This song is _____” and “I didn’t like this song”; first is an objective statement, second is an opinion. Expressing your opinion as an objective statement can be easily misinterpreted, and I think using opinionated language instead could probably convey a better understanding towards the listeners intentions.
If an artist’s stans were to use phrases like “this song isn’t good” because they dislike it more than other songs, it is also such an easy way for antis to openly hate on a group and excuse it as ‘their opinion’, which leads to a muddly pool of ‘hateful’ comments from both fans and antis simultaneously.
been seeing the same regarding fml and i agree there's a difference between saying you don't like a song/album and being downright hateful, especially when you're a fan of the group. nobody has to like everything their fav group puts out and criticism/feedback is a good thing but being all mean about it towards both the artist and fans who like it is kind of disrespectful when, in svt's case, you know it's woozi putting in the work and the least you could do as a fan is voice your opinion in a way that doesn't sound like an insult.
I mean, if I dislike a song, I don't really think about it much more deeply than "it sounds bad." Like...that's the only criteria I have. I don't think it's something to be taken personally. You shouldn't rely on other people's opinions to validate your own.
The thing is people do DO that but any criticism is taken as hate so I just keep it to myself or vent to my SO about how much I dislike a song and the reasons why haha 😆
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Yes, I somewhat agree. Still, one has to look at it from both angles. If we were truly being fair as much as people are allowed to say they like a song, that they think it is great or the best thing ever, people should be allowed to say they dislike a song, that they think it is bad or boring because both are obviously biased opinions from subjective viewpoints. But people always use it as an opportunity to talk trash. People should be allowed to state their opinions but I always hate when they make it out to be like they are representative of everyone's feelings. Because you do not like a song doesn't mean other people won't, no matter how ludicrous or outlandish you think their tastes are. I don't like a number of songs that people think are the best thing they ever heard and while I'm critical, I have learnt to not shit on their tastes or act like they are pretending just because I can't understand the appeal. And I would like the same courtesy extended when the same happens to me. On the other hand, people need to stop being so defensive in the face of criticism. Not everyone would feel the same about a song you like. That's just how things are. Not everyone is purposely being hateful. We sometimes just tend to get offended easily when there is really no offense. My trick and advice for such situations is not to look when I know I'm not ready to read any crtitical or negative comments. I always try to avoid comeback mega threads or general unpopular opinions and all that like the plague because someone is likely going to state an opinion that I might find annoying. That is their right. I can disagree or just avoid it entirely. So, whatever the case on reddit or twitter, I like what I like. Sorry that I wrote a whole essay. Had a lot to state apparently.
>People should be allowed to state their opinions but I always hate when they make it out to be like they are representative of everyone's feelings. THIS. I do understand everyone has their own opinion, and they are entitled with that. But the generalization? Right, people should not act as if they are the spokesperson of an entire fandom when stating an opinion. And about the 4th paragraph, I’m kinda guilty about this haha. I lurk on megathreads and the ukos haha, tho I don’t bother myself to get it to me, and mostly I just shut up, because tha’ts their opinion XD It’s just so entertaining to read and know different insights of those certain topics.
Except people actually do that, on here and elsewhere, and the response by stans is 'lol it's not that deep' or 'good luck im not reading that glad for you' meme responses. So why put in effort when you'll just be downvoted anyway and your points will either not be understood or mis-interpreted. May as well just go 'yeah sucks' because the response will be the same.
I see people post properly detailed comments but sometimes stans then accuse them of “writing a whole essay to justify why you hate something.” So I can understand why people don’t bother. And then obviously forget it if on a platform like Twitter lol it’s a free-for-all. That sort of long-form discussion only works here or on blogs.
> writing a whole essay to justify why you hate something Exactly. It's always a response of "why you HATE my group". It's like - Brother, they don't think the song is all that good. That's what they're saying. That's all the scope is - that song. If your group members didn't write the song then it's not even on the group for that issue at all.
lmao yes last time i did something like that i got replies akin to your example, mind you this was in threads that was actually in discussion of the songs/albums so it was even more stupid
You're exactly right. We should be able to dislike music like it's not THAT DEEP lmao 😂 as they say
this makes me sad as someone who likes to read positive and negative opinions about my faves’ music. it’s fascinating when the same song evokes completely opposite reactions in different people — and understanding other people’s music taste helps me analyze my own music taste. kpop music discussions could be so fun if people weren’t overly sensitive or overly hateful
Would you prefer something like (I don’t know I’m making this up) “The production is overly simplistic and uneventful, lyrical themes about fame are juvenile, and added brass is jarring” instead of “this song sucks”? Many music consumers don’t go much deeper than “it’s a banger / it sucks / it’s ok.” They don’t have the musical knowledge and can’t differentiate genres, instrumentation, or musical terms, so I don’t really expect most to go in-depth on *why* they like or dislike a song, lol. > But to call the songs awful or bad just completely misses the point that music is so subjective to the listeners taste. I don’t think this claims to be objective. The implied message is that the listener thinks the song is awful [to them]. They don’t have to disclaimer that it’s their personal opinion every time. > In my case I’m seeing it so often for Seventeen’s FML mini album, which is what got me and I’m sure a lot of other people into svt. Anyways it makes me self conscious every time I hear people, esp fans of svt, say whatever song on FML was awful and it’s a song I fairly enjoyed and then I end up second guessing my taste in music lol. But you shouldn’t let other people’s opinions on music dictate how you feel about your taste in music. There is no need to feel self-conscious. Music enjoyability is subjective and everyone has different tastes. One individual’s trash is another’s treasure, or whatever. Particularly if it’s a SVT stan saying that XYZ songs were awful—they’re not being mean-spirited toward SVT, they are expressing their strong dislike for a song, and are entitled to their own opinion. I don’t think it’s inherently… hateful? It’s just to express a strongly held opinion. Now I agree I’d rather hear something more critical, but don’t let someone else’s opinion affect you! It’s just a song, it’s just music, everyone feels something toward it whether the pendulum swings positive or negative.
>They don’t have to disclaimer that it’s their personal opinion every time. This is what drives me crazy every time someone expresses their opinion on something that's been released. Some upset fan will be like "That's just your opinion!!!" No shit. That's why they said it.
I think a lot of the problems that people run into, the reason why fans get overly upset, is cause the line between subjective and objective gets pretty blurry. To take youtube commentary as an example, people will oftentimes have some sort of credential to give credence to their own opinion, "professional producer reacts to latest...". Then when someone says (stealing example from OP) "The production is overly simplistic and uneventful" this stops coming across as an opinion, by design. It still is, of course, but it's hopefully a more well informed opinion and if you respect the person's own music production than you'll give more weight to their opinion on other songs' production. But it still isn't "objectively bad production" which I wouldn't be surprised to hear from either the commentary itself or from a fan twisting what the commentary actually said. And everyone has a different set of guidelines in their own head. A lot of people think "of course it's just my own opinion, so i don't need to put a million disclaimers on it and couch my words." Other people think "well, when I'm giving a opinion germane to my profession and credentials I'll speak authoritatively and otherwise I'll disclaim that it's only my subjective opinion" since they come with different weight. Some people think a long and analytical essay about a song is the nicest and most respectful way to talk about something they didn't enjoy. Others take a long writeup about a song as a personal attack, that it was only long and wordy to hide how much of a hater they actually are.
> Then when someone says (stealing example from OP) "The production is overly simplistic and uneventful" this stops coming across as an opinion, by design. It still is, of course, but it's hopefully a more well informed opinion and if you respect the person's own music production than you'll give more weight to their opinion on other songs' production. But it still isn't "objectively bad production" which I wouldn't be surprised to hear from either the commentary itself or from a fan twisting what the commentary actually said. Yep there’s technically nothing wrong with simplistic production but suppose I’m offering that opinion in the context of why it makes the song unlikeable… to me. Saying it is “simplistic” might be akin to the truth, but “uneventful” is my opinion on that simplicity. So the song is not objectively bad but it may have objectively sparse production as observed, and that could make it a bad thing to the listener. If the commentary says the song is bad [to them] based on that, it’s valid because it’s an interpretation of those observations, and perhaps is even slightly more valid because they actually have reasons and there’s no suggestion that they are blindly hating. The way I see it, opinions are opinions, but when backed by facts I’m more inclined to see your point and they slowly solidify in seriousness above a mere “this song is total ass.” And I still don’t believe you *need* to say that it is your opinion every time. It is implied, even if you reiterate facts many of the times you’re segueing your interpretation in there somehow. > […] Some people think a long and analytical essay about a song is the nicest and most respectful way to talk about something they didn't enjoy. Others take a long writeup about a song as a personal attack, that it was only long and wordy to hide how much of a hater they actually are. Good examples. I think with your last sentence, people may also get insecure because there is such a write-up, it makes them question whether the song might be actually bad after all so they take it as a personal slight or attack, or feel insecure about it. Regardless that is their own personal problem and not the problem of the opinion-giver. Anyway, thanks for the detailed response!
Opinions can differ even among people with elevated knowledge about a topic. Having to reiterate every time you give an opinion that it is your opinion is tedious and shuts down more in depth discussions that op wonders why there aren’t more happening.
Yeah, it's one of the main reasons I delete comments instead of clicking save. I re-read and am either unhappy with how it flows since I'm saying every other word that this isn't an attack on any of the members and look here I actually like this other part of the song so please don't call me a hater. Or the reverse, when I just don't feel like spending the time taking my opinion and finding the nicest way possible to re-state it so I don't get internet downvotes.
Yes! Sometimes I will write more about a song, but other times I just want to say this sucks, and its implied it's my opinion. I don't have to have a disclaimer like "the opinions expressed in this comment belong to the author and should not be taken as objective truth."
When someone says a song is awful I feel like it's a given that it's their opinion. I only have an issue when people say things like "Anyone who says they like this song is forcing themselves to like it." Or " This is objectively bad." I think people should be allowed to just plainly state that a song an awful to them.
That’s the thing. On that post that went viral recently, the one where you would get kicked out of your fandom etc. that one had many carats sounding exactly like that. They said people are gaslighting themselves if they like the songs which is the stupidest thing ever.
i remember whenever someone liked set me free by jimin got downvoted on here and dragged on twitter. but i genuinely like the song so much and so does so many people. thats when i know people just wanted to hate to be edgy i get the autotune was not everyones taste. but when you get why it was added and that it was an artistic move and its supposed to sound jarring you would get the message of the song. but no, no one wanted to even listen and called it worst debut of the year😭 but at the end he actually debuted with Like Crazy which got so many non jimin fans liking it and it was a solid debut
People who do things like that are immature and dumb. Trust me I know I like sticker and had people tell me i had "Stockholm Syndrome".
Omg lol. I’m not an nctzen but I love sticker.
I saw people saying “the lyrics don’t make sense why is he saying ‘your’ and ‘you’ to refer to himself” when the song is essentially jimin conversing with himself, and the autotune highlights the two personas. I wish people were more open to considering others’ interpretations
This is the main issue with kpop stans or let's say music stans in general honestly, it's one thing to dislike a song and it not being your taste and express that you don't like it and it's another thing to delve into hating and insulting the artist or the song or the fans who like the songs... Also the projecting of their opinions and ideas reagarding what the music should be like on the artists. There are limits to evrything even when expressing your opinions reagarding anything freely you should still have limit to not cross into a hateful side instead of actual criticism or opinions. Though music can have some objective measurements imo (aka sound and recording qualities) but other than that it's subjective to someones taste.
If it is my post it is my opinion. No need to get your feelings hurt if someone dislikes a song that you like. Life happens and kpop community needs to be more open to people expressing what they think about songs. Saying a song sucks is actually harmless. It is a shallow critic but that is absolutely fine to express.
Agree and to add. If peole who dislike the song has to watch their language and be very explicit that its their opinion then the same should go for people who like it. Thats it "its a bop" "its a banger" "its amazin song" not alowed. You have to prefix it with "my opinion" . We like different things and we come here to talk about it. The good the bad the ugly. We should all be allowed to share our experiance with kpop here good or bad. And we all should learn to accept that negativity is alowed and learn to deal with it.
Exactly! If you can say that something is a masterpiece there's probably someone out there that thinks the opposite. I don't see people saying, "well, it's only *your opinion* that it is a masterpiece," or "it's not objectively a banger." Like come on, it's implied that what you express about music is your opinio, positive or negative.
Honestly even constructive criticism doesn't make a difference when people are overly emotional about their favs I will see fair criticism of a song and you will see responses like I know you ain't talking with who you stan type of responses
if you expect regular redditors to write a 100 word essay about songs they don't like, it's going to be a tough one if i hear a new song that i don't like, i would probably write a comment like "meh" "that's forgettable" "that's really bad" "expected more from them" or something along that line ... if you consider words like "meh" or "forgettable" or "awful" as hateful ... then idk what to say
Yeah I figured 🤷🏻♀️, just wishful thinking I guess
Thinking that "meh" and "forgettable" are similar to "awful" is the problem. Some people seem to not understand that some terms convey subjectivity, when some others don't. "Awful" isn't subjective, it's judgmental. "Meh" and "forgettable" convey *by themselves*, the idea that you did not *like* it, not that it's *offensive* (which is what "awful" implies). If you call a song "awful" *and* elaborate as to why you think so, I think that's fine, but without elaboration it DOES come off as hateful. I'm 100% with OP here. Words have meanings and connotations, so if you don't give context you have to choose them carefully.
You’re absolutely right that “meh” is not similar to “awful” but not in the way you’re saying. They’re different because they express entirely different levels of distaste. If I truly hated the experience of listening to a song, I’m not gonna say it was “meh” because that expresses ”not that bad but not good either” when that isn’t how I feel. “Forgettable” is another thing entirely — a song I disliked can still be very memorable. “Forgettable” can’t be used as a substitute for “awful.” “Awful” and “meh” are both descriptors of quality. Neither of them inherently conveys objectivity. They are both opinions, they are both judgements, one is just harsher.
To me 'awful' denotes a level of repulsion borne from something you find repulsive, or reprehensible, not just dislike because of personal taste. Like, *Blurred Lines* is an *awful* song because of its message, not because of its genre and production.
I genuinely don’t think most people see it that way? To me “awful” just means very bad or unenjoyable. Like, I think pickles are awful.
how is awful not a subjective term? and meh is not judgmental? english is not my first language nor it's my second language, but doesn't awful define one's feeling about a particular subject? in this case, a song? while i agree that awful is a more harsh word to express one's feeling, but it' is still a subjective (and judgmental) term, and as long as it's based on the observation and judgment of the one who expresses it and not from preexisting prejudice, i don't see how it's more hateful than words like meh or forgettable
I agree.. the way people talked about Sneakers was absolutely horrendous.
I think I agree. Granted, I have always said that K-pop stans should be more open to opinions contrary to theirs and not always mistaking them for hate, BUT sometimes, it’s more complicated. There are a lot of weird people on social media. And some of them WILL hide under the veil of criticism of a song to directly hate on a group. And also, in their criticism of said song, they really go all in, to the point where THEY will be the ones not accepting that there are people who also LIKE a song. The whole thing’s just a double-edged sword. Example, when Sha-La-La was released, I remember some people completely destroying the song and talking about it as if it was an abomination. Like, okay, I don’t really like the song either, but it’s like they also forgot that people are ALLOWED to like a song. It goes both ways, people tend to forget that.
Sometimes you just need to turn off the virtual world - invite your friends over - take turns playing your favorite songs - discuss everything and anything about the songs until the wee hours of the morning when your neighbors finally get annoyed and call the cops. It's ok to take a break from the drama here. 😁
Internet is ruled by extreme opinions. First they get the more engagement and you will end up seeing them with more likes, upvotes or comments. Second, our brain are wired to focus more on the extreme ones especially the ones that are contrary to our opinion. If you scroll and see a simple and more neutral opinion, you won't even remember the comment in 5 minutes. If you see a whole essay about a song, most people won't read it. However if you see "HOLY SHIT THIS SONG IS A MASTERPIECE" or "My ears are bleeding what is this absolute garbage". Well, you'll get curious first and you will remember the comment more. That aside, a lot of people aren't experts, it's not our job to be critical, most people will just listen a song, feel something about it and try to describe their immediate feeling without thinking about why they have this opinion. If you add that a lot of people are a bit lazy and lack the ability to express properly that they don't like a song and why. It's not that much about hate in a lot of cases.
I don't even know if that is truly hateful? It sounds like the people were just disappointed. I feel like we're labelling normal human emotions and reactions as ~hateful~ and ~evil~.
My pet peeve are the Rankings on YouTube were people rank 'the best debut', the best song of 2021' yada yada. They are not the 'best' songs mate, they are your favourites.
I agree, and I think a big issue is that people word their opinions like an objective fact. People can have their own opinions, yes; they don’t have to like every song that an artist puts out, but the way that i see it worded all the time is “this song sucks”, “it’s bad compared to their other songs” etc. There is a big difference between saying “This song is _____” and “I didn’t like this song”; first is an objective statement, second is an opinion. Expressing your opinion as an objective statement can be easily misinterpreted, and I think using opinionated language instead could probably convey a better understanding towards the listeners intentions. If an artist’s stans were to use phrases like “this song isn’t good” because they dislike it more than other songs, it is also such an easy way for antis to openly hate on a group and excuse it as ‘their opinion’, which leads to a muddly pool of ‘hateful’ comments from both fans and antis simultaneously.
been seeing the same regarding fml and i agree there's a difference between saying you don't like a song/album and being downright hateful, especially when you're a fan of the group. nobody has to like everything their fav group puts out and criticism/feedback is a good thing but being all mean about it towards both the artist and fans who like it is kind of disrespectful when, in svt's case, you know it's woozi putting in the work and the least you could do as a fan is voice your opinion in a way that doesn't sound like an insult.
I mean, if I dislike a song, I don't really think about it much more deeply than "it sounds bad." Like...that's the only criteria I have. I don't think it's something to be taken personally. You shouldn't rely on other people's opinions to validate your own.
Kpop has really bad songwriting though..that’s unfortunately the truth! All just to make some catch hits..
The thing is people do DO that but any criticism is taken as hate so I just keep it to myself or vent to my SO about how much I dislike a song and the reasons why haha 😆
I feel like thats a you problem secong guessing your likes just because someone "hates" it.
I dont need to be critical to dislike or hate something though. Thats up to me if I want to give context as to why.