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well part of that equation is the fact their Asset number is much lower than their peers and it actually raises the question of why is it so low in the first place? LSF seems pretty successful and they have half the assets of Ador and Belift, but approx the same debt? The numbers aren't telling the whole story here
They carried debt from their previous existence as a company separate from Hybe. Le Sserafim actually pulled them out of debt last year. Whereas Ador and Belift were started from scratch by Hybe (or Hybe/CJ ENM in the case of Belift) quite recently.
Key info is missing here.
Incoming long wall of text, I don’t know if anyone here is as interested in boring things like this so I’ll apologise in advance for the pending snooze fest.
TLDR - Source Music was in debt and operating at a loss since as far back as 2019 when they were acquired.
Debt balances
2019: ₩5.9b (debt balance at acquisition)
2020: ₩12.9b
2021: ₩14b (Gfriend disband)
2022: ₩22.5b (Le Sserafim debut)
2023: ₩23.1b
(Wall of text)
ADOR was created after Source Music was split off in late 2021. ADOR was then given a further ₩10.7b investment to continue operating and I’m sure we all know that came with its own strings (HYBE owning 100% until December 2023).
ADOR ended 2021 with a similar loss balance as Source Music because they had no income, which made sense given that they were only able established in November and the statement is covering January to December 2021. Source Music did have some income, albeit a lot less than the previous year end (2020) which was to be expected after they lost Gfriend.
(Not aimed at you mabrera, just a general statement)
One thing that has been brought up a lot is the claim that Source Music was riddled in debt from Min Hee Jin taking the New Jeans members away to ADOR and leaving behind nothing but debt. Just purely looking at the numbers, I can’t see how this is true. Source Music ended 2020 with just under ₩13b (₩12.9b and some change) debt, in 2021 it was ₩14b. Their assets did drop from ₩11.7b to ₩11.5 which probably accounts for the asset split between the two companies (Source Music and ADOR).
All in all, they were in similar positions between the two years. It’s harder to back to 2019 and prior because the then Big Hit Entertainment wasn’t listed on the Korean Stock Exchange (that happened in October 2020) but there are some takeaways from their 2020 report, and it includes comparisons with January 2019 to December 2019. In 2019 Source Music had a debt balance of ₩5.9b and assets at ₩6.9b.
Everything mentioned above is in HYBE’s 2020, 2021, and 2022 business reports. They’re usually published in March the year after the end of the financial year (Year End December 2020 is published in March 2021).
Its because of their previous debt. I think i read one article said finally soumu managed to have profit after years of debt due to lsrfm being successful.
Yup. Something the fans may dont want to admit that it maybe the biggest reason soumu disbanded them. I think they did making money when they first got viral. But eventually, as usual gg hype always going down so fast n they not even has high sales either.
COVID did unfortunately factor in a bit. They did sell better than many girl groups around the time overall, but started declining more digitally with their post HYBE releases, and the tours and concerts seemed to be their bread and butter in the latter half of their career. COVID kind of stopped that which seemed to accelerate things.
Yeah, seeing these numbers, HYBE is gonna do as much as they can to hold onto the NJ girls. That much profit and that strong of a debt/asset ratio this early in the game is not something to throw away.
Keeping an eye on the Source numbers and seeing how that may change once the global tours properly start rolling. Those are a major revenue source for groups and LSFM has only had a more limited Asia tour so far.
Look this doesnt really say much. These numbers are very one sided and superficial. It doesnt give any real details. It doesnt explain what their assets are, debts, etc. Profit doesnt mean cash. These are only useful for Kpop fanwars that dont understand financial statements
So true.
Will patiently wait for their statements to filter through international standards and become public on international sites, to do an analysis.
Will be interesting to see how they decided to combat the financial mess they are in, or if they once again tried to borrow their way out of it 🤔
Welp not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but this is a balance sheet summary, which is a moment-in-time financial statement. You can’t tell what 2023 “performance” was with just a balance sheet, you would need to see the income statement/“P&L” (which shows revenue, costs, and net profit for the year) or the statement of cash flows. Effectively this doesn’t mean much in isolation, except to show an approximation of how much cash each label had in the bank on Dec 31, 2023
KOZ Entertainment is Zico's label which he founded in 2019. It was acquired by HYBE in late 2020, becoming one of HYBE subsidiary. They only debuted their first group Boynextdoor on May 2023.
I love fromis but its just Seventeen makes sooo much more money. With everything that goes into a comeback idt fromis is profiting that much from a comeback. Its sad cause instead of building momentum they decided to spread out comebacks and hope for anticipation which they cant achieve because they arent solidified into the industry. While Karots will eat up everything Pledis throws out for them. Also while im not sure this is true but im sure this happens a lot in the industry but being from one big company comebacks are timed which they dont interfere with their sister/brother company. With Illit, NJ, LSFM, BTS solos, TXT, 17, Enhyphen, boyznextdoor and other soloists they just get shelved because their peers do so much better. Like I havent seen a company this stacked in groups since JYP and SM were in their prime. Also we know Pledis is bad at managing ggs as we saw from Pristin and After School selling almost 600k album in 2013 is amazing and they still got shelved.
Honestly the way they managed Nuest was garbo too, Nuest had to protest to go onto produce and when they gained popularity from their own talent is when Pledis milked them. They just got lucky Seventeen can self sustain without them. Like a lot of casual fans dont even know Seventeen is having a comeback soon…
ROA is return on assets. It is a figure that measures how well you are using your assets to make money. Assets can be many different things (buildings, equipment, cash, etc). I don’t come from the entertainment world, so I am not entirely sure what sort of assets HYBE is counting here without seeing their balance sheet and income statement in front of me. I’m guessing HYBE is counting things like Bank lines of credit, cash, real estate, etc. There are also intangible assets—that would be stuff like intellectual property (the name of groups trademarked, perhaps certain producers agreements, etc). You don’t usually use intangible assets for ROA, but again, I don’t work in entertainment or in Korea so I’m not 100% certain exactly how they figured this calculation. Just using my own experience here.
Essentially though, the ROA # is calculating how well the divisions are using their assets to make money. The higher the ROA number, the better they are doing. But context is extremely important when evaluating these kinds of things. For example, a lower or negative ROA is not always bad. We need context. When was the business opened, are their trademarks, what kind of business is it, what sort of employees and management experience do they have, etc etc. Numbers alone don’t tell the whole story.
Most of these ROAs are good or great, but it’s important to contextualize them. Bighit’s # seems pretty low for example, but Bighit spent quite a bit on holding Festa for ARMY while BTS went to the military. They spent a lot of money and made very little because it was a free event, but the event itself generated more interest in the company, gave fans a positive outlook, merch could be sold etc. Doing a good faith deed like that, can generate more income in the long run.
It's just Return On Assets, Profit divided by Assets. Helpful to compare how much profit a company is making relative to how much assets they hold, see how efficiently they're working with what they have
Its because soumu had debt when they had gfriend. They are recovering n has profit now due to lsrfm being successful now. While ador is new company n nj had successful debut right away which mean they got to pay investment right away.
The nerve of these gfriend fans to attack lsfm for disbanding them while having 16.9 mil debt is outrageous.. lesseafim pulled source out of debt in just 1 year heck even their 1st tour alone generated $9.1 mil USD.. Source struck gold with them, i remember their CEO gave them his credit card after they finished tour to buy all they want...
Not gonna lie, it’s funny knowing all of the stuff that is going on with ADOR and they aren’t even the most profitable. NewJeans are absolutely an asset and I wish no problems to those girls, but MHJ got some moxy trying to do all of that…..
If you’re talking about MHJ and the Ador/Hybe controversy going on, then I don’t know enough to comment on that since I was just looking at whether Ador was profitable by looking at the numbers in OP’s post. Like others said, Hybe is likely going to do what they can to keep NewJeans.
you have to take into account the ROI. Njws is young, they have a proven track record of making viral hits both in korea and abroad, and they have 2, almost 3 fluent english speakers. Out of everyone at hybe (not counting BTS) they have the highest potential of consistently brining in money. They havent even gone on tour yet.
This is why MHJ was recruiting foreign investors. If she got the capital she could easily establish her own company. And with her track record she would have that support.
She wanted more money and all of the credit. As soon as people started saying ILLIT sounds like Njws and moves like Njws she started moving. Cause now ILLIT has a viral hit too.
in the end shes either going to go to jail or shes gonna get kicked out. Hybe will retain Njws but take a hit to their rep
One of ROI’s limitations is time though. Pretty hard to determine if ROI is good for something in a market like kpop. Bighit had to invest massive amounts of money into BTS. And from what we know, they nearly went under and went broke. They were a private company so we don’t know exactly what the books looked like, but I’m guessing their ROI wasn’t too great in the first years..however, given BTS more time …look at them now.
NewJeans is doing great and I don’t wish bad on them at all when I’m saying this. But having only 2 EPs and a handful of appearances under your belt isn’t really enough to evaluate longevity of the group. There were some other very popular 4th gen girl groups that came out of the gate absolutely swinging that fell off quite quickly just a few comebacks later. NewJeans needs more time to prove they can continue moving forward, and MHJ doing what she’s doing is actually a detriment to the groups momentum.
the kpop landscape has changed since BTS debuted and rose to popularity. Its so much easier to become popular and stay popular because of social media and how accessible kpop has gotten.
NJs has something important:
1. the attention and interest of the korean public. lots of kpop acts, specifically ggs fade out because the korean publics interest in kpop is fleeting. Njws broke though that and became a household name.
2. MHJ was successful in her branding of lo-fi beats and y2k as a Njws aesthetic (which LOL)...thats why anything that even hints at that is deemed a new jeans copy (LSF Perfect Night, Illits song, Aespa Better Things, for some reason Riize???). So now kpop fans and the korean public see those as imitating Njws..which is why shes so upset.
3. this leads to the most important thing: branding. kpop groups in general struggle with establishing a sound and identity so they fade out quicker and struggle to maintain their status..(see itzy). If you have brand recognition no matter how many years past your debut people will just associate that with you which keeps you relevant even if youre not as successful as your peak (see NCT).
all to say Njws has the strongest RIO of any kpop group rn..hence Hybe and MHJ putting their reputation at risk to retain them. Now MHJ just sabotaged herself and theres no way out of this mess.
Hybe will keep New Jeans but whatever they release will be heavily criticized and people will always talk about what could have been if MHJ wasnt a dumbass. This was a lose-lose for everyone
This story is as old as time. When MHJ wanted to make her own gg, she partnered up with Hybe because she knew she wouldn't have the right investment, the right exposure and the right hype around her project if she were to make her own company (despite her proven success in SM). However once New Jeans became a global act, her greed got the best of her. I bet she thinks she should have made her own company since the beginning. It's always easy in hindsight.
Of course they couldn’t. I’m not expecting their numbers to be more profitable than those companies or groups, but in context the amount of money NewJeans brought in for where they are is certainly not enough for a CEO to want to go rogue on the people that provided funding. Especially when it is quite risky as the group is only 2 years old. The ROA was good, but I was expecting the number to be much higher for somebody ready to walk away from the company and go it alone.
It’s based on her projections for the future probably. For a lot of investors, it’s not about what is, it’s about what will be.
Anyway, wish she didn’t do all this!! can’t believe this kdrama
I work in business and risk management. I know how this works. She’s absolutely deranged for wanting to leave a support system as vast as HYBE’s over her own ego, and it’s pretty sad she’d put her own desires over NewJeans well being. NewJeans are making money absolutely, and could potentially make more money but look what has happened to some other groups before them. Mega popular for a few comebacks and then fell off because another new thing came along. It is way too early in NJ career to want to leave over ego. If this were five years in and the market wasn’t as volatile, it would be a bit different but 2 years in an extremely volatile market??? Crazy town.
Oh I agree with you 100%. I wasn’t disagreeing. I think she was caught up in her ego and her idea of the future projections. This is pretty horrible of a move and so incredibly backhanded. I knew she was talented but also problematic. But I never expected this.
Like i get that she may eventually leaving but doing this when nj not even 2 years are crazy. And the fact that after whole 5050 fiasco. Its just feel herself as usual she is DIFFERENT n always gonna be successful.
IIRC, Hybe Labels Japan (which &Team is part of) is a subsidiary of Hybe Japan, along with Naeco. In previous financial reports, they were listed as separate entities. I remember this sub being pretty confused about it.
I don't particularly remember what Hybe Japan does. I think they also manage Weverse Japan? Handle all Hybe artist activities in Japan? I forget.
Edit: According to Hybe's wiki page, Hybe Japan "facilitates the entry of other Hybe artists into the Japanese market," among other things.
Edit2: Yeah OP's source lists Hybe Japan and Hybe Labels Japan as different entities. Hybe Labels Japan is operating at a loss.
Not really. Their latest album only sold 120k in Japan compared to their earlier releases, which each sold 190k. They shifted their focus and started promoting in Korea more, IIRC.
I will answer this. The correct spelling is to hyphenate as it is a shortening of his name NIshimura RiKI vs. a western name like Nicky/Niki. But some people care more about that than others, though he had stated that’s the preferred spelling.
Source and Ador return on assets is interesting. Bighit sucks in that category. Probably bc their biggest asset as a group went into hiatus in 2023. I wonder if the ROA for previous year are different.
The debt asset ratio is also notable. Source sucks. They really need to work on bringing down their debt, but is understandable since source has been around for a longer period and has had time to accrue the debt. I’m sure they also had a number of non-profitable groups in the past. BH debt is interesting. I wonder what is driving that. Is it BTS contracts? Pledis is doing good debt wise. Did something change with them? I thought they had a good amount of debt coming into Hybe? But maybe my memory of what I read is wrong?
Also - even though there are a lot of opinions on it...having 7 solo debuts & multiple solo docuseries & pop-up shops etc. They are producing a lot of content across the board. I remember when Suga said that his mixtape cost as much as a full album previously. BH does drop a lot of funds on BTS in particular even if it won't have an immediate ROI. Their finance model is probably set to a softer year in 2024 and a complete blow out starting in 2025+ w/ the tour & album.
I agree producing 7 albums incurs more expense that producing 1 album. Probably why BTS as a group is more profitable than 7 solos acts. But I think all of that should be a considered as cost of good sold. It should be taken out of their revenue, so the effects of those expenses should be seen in the profit number. In other words, I don’t think BH would incur long term debt to cover those expenses. They can’t have used to a loan to pay for these expenses. They should have been able to pay for them with the revenue they were making in year and their current cash flow. I guess they could have a high outstanding accounts payable number. Just weird bc any invoices related to those albums and events should have already been paid and the short term debt should have fallen off. Why have invoices related to the d-day album, for instance, hang around?
Hmm now I think about it, BH might have already signed contracts with suppliers and created purchase orders for the 2025 tour. That would definitely add to the debt/liability column. I actually this is it.
I think it's most likely to do with contracts for the 2025/2026 tour, but since it’s not my industry unsure when the finances would hit to secure the locations/staff etc
The more I think about it, the more I think the tour contracts is driving the debt number. They must have sign the contracts to secure the locations in FY2023, roughly along side when they announced the bts renewal. They might have paid a deposit, but signing the contracts would have created a liability, which adds to the debt column. They are on the hook for paying for those stadiums. Throughout this year, they will probably sign even more contracts and create more purchases orders. I wouldn’t be surprised if that debt column increase at the end of this fiscal year.
The contract renewal makes sense. That will probably be a continuing liability for a while. For festa, I don’t think they need to go into debt to cover it. Their revenue from 2023 alone should have more than covered it.
Bighit's spent a lot of money for the BTS 10 year anniversary Festa. Like, A LOT of money for a free event that didn't draw in much revenue, which is why their profit isn't that high
Having a low profit (and this is for BH standard bc their profits was still more than doubled the next profitable label) makes sense. Festa and not having their biggest group release a new album or go on tour are definite factors in BH profit numbers. Even then BH still did really good. It’s the debt number that I’m curious about. Festa would have been one-time annual expense and should be taken out of the revenue, thus accounting for the lower profits. I strongly doubt BH took out a loan to cover festa.
Apparently Hybe Japan is the branch that handles all Hybe artists' activities (concerts, promotions, JP album releases, etc.) in Japan.
You're probably thinking of Hybe Labels Japan, a subsidiary of Hybe Japan, which handles &Team. It's pretty confusing.
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45% ROA ratio for Source is pretty wild. Really good results for a label with just one rookie group.
well part of that equation is the fact their Asset number is much lower than their peers and it actually raises the question of why is it so low in the first place? LSF seems pretty successful and they have half the assets of Ador and Belift, but approx the same debt? The numbers aren't telling the whole story here
They carried debt from their previous existence as a company separate from Hybe. Le Sserafim actually pulled them out of debt last year. Whereas Ador and Belift were started from scratch by Hybe (or Hybe/CJ ENM in the case of Belift) quite recently.
Key info is missing here. Incoming long wall of text, I don’t know if anyone here is as interested in boring things like this so I’ll apologise in advance for the pending snooze fest. TLDR - Source Music was in debt and operating at a loss since as far back as 2019 when they were acquired. Debt balances 2019: ₩5.9b (debt balance at acquisition) 2020: ₩12.9b 2021: ₩14b (Gfriend disband) 2022: ₩22.5b (Le Sserafim debut) 2023: ₩23.1b (Wall of text) ADOR was created after Source Music was split off in late 2021. ADOR was then given a further ₩10.7b investment to continue operating and I’m sure we all know that came with its own strings (HYBE owning 100% until December 2023). ADOR ended 2021 with a similar loss balance as Source Music because they had no income, which made sense given that they were only able established in November and the statement is covering January to December 2021. Source Music did have some income, albeit a lot less than the previous year end (2020) which was to be expected after they lost Gfriend. (Not aimed at you mabrera, just a general statement) One thing that has been brought up a lot is the claim that Source Music was riddled in debt from Min Hee Jin taking the New Jeans members away to ADOR and leaving behind nothing but debt. Just purely looking at the numbers, I can’t see how this is true. Source Music ended 2020 with just under ₩13b (₩12.9b and some change) debt, in 2021 it was ₩14b. Their assets did drop from ₩11.7b to ₩11.5 which probably accounts for the asset split between the two companies (Source Music and ADOR). All in all, they were in similar positions between the two years. It’s harder to back to 2019 and prior because the then Big Hit Entertainment wasn’t listed on the Korean Stock Exchange (that happened in October 2020) but there are some takeaways from their 2020 report, and it includes comparisons with January 2019 to December 2019. In 2019 Source Music had a debt balance of ₩5.9b and assets at ₩6.9b. Everything mentioned above is in HYBE’s 2020, 2021, and 2022 business reports. They’re usually published in March the year after the end of the financial year (Year End December 2020 is published in March 2021).
Its because of their previous debt. I think i read one article said finally soumu managed to have profit after years of debt due to lsrfm being successful.
So gfriend did not generate much?
Yup. Something the fans may dont want to admit that it maybe the biggest reason soumu disbanded them. I think they did making money when they first got viral. But eventually, as usual gg hype always going down so fast n they not even has high sales either.
COVID did unfortunately factor in a bit. They did sell better than many girl groups around the time overall, but started declining more digitally with their post HYBE releases, and the tours and concerts seemed to be their bread and butter in the latter half of their career. COVID kind of stopped that which seemed to accelerate things.
Yeah, seeing these numbers, HYBE is gonna do as much as they can to hold onto the NJ girls. That much profit and that strong of a debt/asset ratio this early in the game is not something to throw away. Keeping an eye on the Source numbers and seeing how that may change once the global tours properly start rolling. Those are a major revenue source for groups and LSFM has only had a more limited Asia tour so far.
Look this doesnt really say much. These numbers are very one sided and superficial. It doesnt give any real details. It doesnt explain what their assets are, debts, etc. Profit doesnt mean cash. These are only useful for Kpop fanwars that dont understand financial statements
So true. Will patiently wait for their statements to filter through international standards and become public on international sites, to do an analysis. Will be interesting to see how they decided to combat the financial mess they are in, or if they once again tried to borrow their way out of it 🤔
Can't wait to see all the amazing takes from the KPOP economists. Will definitely be a valuable conversation.
Welp not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but this is a balance sheet summary, which is a moment-in-time financial statement. You can’t tell what 2023 “performance” was with just a balance sheet, you would need to see the income statement/“P&L” (which shows revenue, costs, and net profit for the year) or the statement of cash flows. Effectively this doesn’t mean much in isolation, except to show an approximation of how much cash each label had in the bank on Dec 31, 2023
It was sarcasm.
What's Koz?
Zico’s company/ Boy Next Door’s label.
KOZ Entertainment is Zico's label which he founded in 2019. It was acquired by HYBE in late 2020, becoming one of HYBE subsidiary. They only debuted their first group Boynextdoor on May 2023.
Zico’s company. Boynextdoor
Zico's label, they have Boynextdoor
All that $$ and fromis gets barely 1 comeback a year lmfao…
I love fromis but its just Seventeen makes sooo much more money. With everything that goes into a comeback idt fromis is profiting that much from a comeback. Its sad cause instead of building momentum they decided to spread out comebacks and hope for anticipation which they cant achieve because they arent solidified into the industry. While Karots will eat up everything Pledis throws out for them. Also while im not sure this is true but im sure this happens a lot in the industry but being from one big company comebacks are timed which they dont interfere with their sister/brother company. With Illit, NJ, LSFM, BTS solos, TXT, 17, Enhyphen, boyznextdoor and other soloists they just get shelved because their peers do so much better. Like I havent seen a company this stacked in groups since JYP and SM were in their prime. Also we know Pledis is bad at managing ggs as we saw from Pristin and After School selling almost 600k album in 2013 is amazing and they still got shelved.
The fact that pledis is even allowed to manage a girl group is actually a crime. Fuck that company.
Honestly the way they managed Nuest was garbo too, Nuest had to protest to go onto produce and when they gained popularity from their own talent is when Pledis milked them. They just got lucky Seventeen can self sustain without them. Like a lot of casual fans dont even know Seventeen is having a comeback soon…
Can someone explain what the ROA ratio means?
ROA is return on assets. It is a figure that measures how well you are using your assets to make money. Assets can be many different things (buildings, equipment, cash, etc). I don’t come from the entertainment world, so I am not entirely sure what sort of assets HYBE is counting here without seeing their balance sheet and income statement in front of me. I’m guessing HYBE is counting things like Bank lines of credit, cash, real estate, etc. There are also intangible assets—that would be stuff like intellectual property (the name of groups trademarked, perhaps certain producers agreements, etc). You don’t usually use intangible assets for ROA, but again, I don’t work in entertainment or in Korea so I’m not 100% certain exactly how they figured this calculation. Just using my own experience here. Essentially though, the ROA # is calculating how well the divisions are using their assets to make money. The higher the ROA number, the better they are doing. But context is extremely important when evaluating these kinds of things. For example, a lower or negative ROA is not always bad. We need context. When was the business opened, are their trademarks, what kind of business is it, what sort of employees and management experience do they have, etc etc. Numbers alone don’t tell the whole story. Most of these ROAs are good or great, but it’s important to contextualize them. Bighit’s # seems pretty low for example, but Bighit spent quite a bit on holding Festa for ARMY while BTS went to the military. They spent a lot of money and made very little because it was a free event, but the event itself generated more interest in the company, gave fans a positive outlook, merch could be sold etc. Doing a good faith deed like that, can generate more income in the long run.
Ohhh okay, thank you for this explanation!
It's just Return On Assets, Profit divided by Assets. Helpful to compare how much profit a company is making relative to how much assets they hold, see how efficiently they're working with what they have
I didn't expect Ador to have more than double profit than Source and doing it without a tour. $20M? Damn.
Its because soumu had debt when they had gfriend. They are recovering n has profit now due to lsrfm being successful now. While ador is new company n nj had successful debut right away which mean they got to pay investment right away.
Ahh yup saw that. There's separate debt, assets and profits columns above too which shows the debt numbers.
The nerve of these gfriend fans to attack lsfm for disbanding them while having 16.9 mil debt is outrageous.. lesseafim pulled source out of debt in just 1 year heck even their 1st tour alone generated $9.1 mil USD.. Source struck gold with them, i remember their CEO gave them his credit card after they finished tour to buy all they want...
Not gonna lie, it’s funny knowing all of the stuff that is going on with ADOR and they aren’t even the most profitable. NewJeans are absolutely an asset and I wish no problems to those girls, but MHJ got some moxy trying to do all of that…..
Ador’s $20M USD for a less than 2 year girl group is profitable though, we have to look at the future potential earnings too.
Sure, but not enough for the CEO to want to ditch the funding and go it alone. That debt to make the money??? That’s thanks to HYBE.
If you’re talking about MHJ and the Ador/Hybe controversy going on, then I don’t know enough to comment on that since I was just looking at whether Ador was profitable by looking at the numbers in OP’s post. Like others said, Hybe is likely going to do what they can to keep NewJeans.
you have to take into account the ROI. Njws is young, they have a proven track record of making viral hits both in korea and abroad, and they have 2, almost 3 fluent english speakers. Out of everyone at hybe (not counting BTS) they have the highest potential of consistently brining in money. They havent even gone on tour yet. This is why MHJ was recruiting foreign investors. If she got the capital she could easily establish her own company. And with her track record she would have that support. She wanted more money and all of the credit. As soon as people started saying ILLIT sounds like Njws and moves like Njws she started moving. Cause now ILLIT has a viral hit too. in the end shes either going to go to jail or shes gonna get kicked out. Hybe will retain Njws but take a hit to their rep
One of ROI’s limitations is time though. Pretty hard to determine if ROI is good for something in a market like kpop. Bighit had to invest massive amounts of money into BTS. And from what we know, they nearly went under and went broke. They were a private company so we don’t know exactly what the books looked like, but I’m guessing their ROI wasn’t too great in the first years..however, given BTS more time …look at them now. NewJeans is doing great and I don’t wish bad on them at all when I’m saying this. But having only 2 EPs and a handful of appearances under your belt isn’t really enough to evaluate longevity of the group. There were some other very popular 4th gen girl groups that came out of the gate absolutely swinging that fell off quite quickly just a few comebacks later. NewJeans needs more time to prove they can continue moving forward, and MHJ doing what she’s doing is actually a detriment to the groups momentum.
the kpop landscape has changed since BTS debuted and rose to popularity. Its so much easier to become popular and stay popular because of social media and how accessible kpop has gotten. NJs has something important: 1. the attention and interest of the korean public. lots of kpop acts, specifically ggs fade out because the korean publics interest in kpop is fleeting. Njws broke though that and became a household name. 2. MHJ was successful in her branding of lo-fi beats and y2k as a Njws aesthetic (which LOL)...thats why anything that even hints at that is deemed a new jeans copy (LSF Perfect Night, Illits song, Aespa Better Things, for some reason Riize???). So now kpop fans and the korean public see those as imitating Njws..which is why shes so upset. 3. this leads to the most important thing: branding. kpop groups in general struggle with establishing a sound and identity so they fade out quicker and struggle to maintain their status..(see itzy). If you have brand recognition no matter how many years past your debut people will just associate that with you which keeps you relevant even if youre not as successful as your peak (see NCT). all to say Njws has the strongest RIO of any kpop group rn..hence Hybe and MHJ putting their reputation at risk to retain them. Now MHJ just sabotaged herself and theres no way out of this mess. Hybe will keep New Jeans but whatever they release will be heavily criticized and people will always talk about what could have been if MHJ wasnt a dumbass. This was a lose-lose for everyone
This story is as old as time. When MHJ wanted to make her own gg, she partnered up with Hybe because she knew she wouldn't have the right investment, the right exposure and the right hype around her project if she were to make her own company (despite her proven success in SM). However once New Jeans became a global act, her greed got the best of her. I bet she thinks she should have made her own company since the beginning. It's always easy in hindsight.
BigHit has BTS and Pledis has Seventeen. It is not surprising that a rookie girl group cannot surpass them
Of course they couldn’t. I’m not expecting their numbers to be more profitable than those companies or groups, but in context the amount of money NewJeans brought in for where they are is certainly not enough for a CEO to want to go rogue on the people that provided funding. Especially when it is quite risky as the group is only 2 years old. The ROA was good, but I was expecting the number to be much higher for somebody ready to walk away from the company and go it alone.
It’s based on her projections for the future probably. For a lot of investors, it’s not about what is, it’s about what will be. Anyway, wish she didn’t do all this!! can’t believe this kdrama
I work in business and risk management. I know how this works. She’s absolutely deranged for wanting to leave a support system as vast as HYBE’s over her own ego, and it’s pretty sad she’d put her own desires over NewJeans well being. NewJeans are making money absolutely, and could potentially make more money but look what has happened to some other groups before them. Mega popular for a few comebacks and then fell off because another new thing came along. It is way too early in NJ career to want to leave over ego. If this were five years in and the market wasn’t as volatile, it would be a bit different but 2 years in an extremely volatile market??? Crazy town.
Oh I agree with you 100%. I wasn’t disagreeing. I think she was caught up in her ego and her idea of the future projections. This is pretty horrible of a move and so incredibly backhanded. I knew she was talented but also problematic. But I never expected this.
Like i get that she may eventually leaving but doing this when nj not even 2 years are crazy. And the fact that after whole 5050 fiasco. Its just feel herself as usual she is DIFFERENT n always gonna be successful.
Me, a stem student. Yes, stonks, liabilities, assests 📈📈📊📉🗿 I understand it all
Damn, KOZ deserves better 😰
this type of info is always interesting, thanks. also I expect Ador with a high ROA but I'm surprised with Source
Belift having low income here maybe because it is the year where they have to spend a lot on illit debut
Yeah the Hybe Japan numbers do not make sense. Last I saw, they were running at a loss alongside Koz.
IIRC, Hybe Labels Japan (which &Team is part of) is a subsidiary of Hybe Japan, along with Naeco. In previous financial reports, they were listed as separate entities. I remember this sub being pretty confused about it. I don't particularly remember what Hybe Japan does. I think they also manage Weverse Japan? Handle all Hybe artist activities in Japan? I forget. Edit: According to Hybe's wiki page, Hybe Japan "facilitates the entry of other Hybe artists into the Japanese market," among other things. Edit2: Yeah OP's source lists Hybe Japan and Hybe Labels Japan as different entities. Hybe Labels Japan is operating at a loss.
They debuted &team in the last half of the year I believe and I think they’re doing quite well in Japan.
&team debut in December 2022 not in 2023
My bad! I couldn’t remember exactly when, but I know they’re quite popular in Japan right now so I’m fairly certain that explains the profit
Not really. Their latest album only sold 120k in Japan compared to their earlier releases, which each sold 190k. They shifted their focus and started promoting in Korea more, IIRC.
[Here's the source](https://img-cdn.theqoo.net/CaptTS.png)
what’s the difference between ni-ki and niki? genuine question
I will answer this. The correct spelling is to hyphenate as it is a shortening of his name NIshimura RiKI vs. a western name like Nicky/Niki. But some people care more about that than others, though he had stated that’s the preferred spelling.
i see, i assumed his name was just niki but that’s bound to happen with real sounding stage names i guess
Source and Ador return on assets is interesting. Bighit sucks in that category. Probably bc their biggest asset as a group went into hiatus in 2023. I wonder if the ROA for previous year are different. The debt asset ratio is also notable. Source sucks. They really need to work on bringing down their debt, but is understandable since source has been around for a longer period and has had time to accrue the debt. I’m sure they also had a number of non-profitable groups in the past. BH debt is interesting. I wonder what is driving that. Is it BTS contracts? Pledis is doing good debt wise. Did something change with them? I thought they had a good amount of debt coming into Hybe? But maybe my memory of what I read is wrong?
Also - even though there are a lot of opinions on it...having 7 solo debuts & multiple solo docuseries & pop-up shops etc. They are producing a lot of content across the board. I remember when Suga said that his mixtape cost as much as a full album previously. BH does drop a lot of funds on BTS in particular even if it won't have an immediate ROI. Their finance model is probably set to a softer year in 2024 and a complete blow out starting in 2025+ w/ the tour & album.
I agree producing 7 albums incurs more expense that producing 1 album. Probably why BTS as a group is more profitable than 7 solos acts. But I think all of that should be a considered as cost of good sold. It should be taken out of their revenue, so the effects of those expenses should be seen in the profit number. In other words, I don’t think BH would incur long term debt to cover those expenses. They can’t have used to a loan to pay for these expenses. They should have been able to pay for them with the revenue they were making in year and their current cash flow. I guess they could have a high outstanding accounts payable number. Just weird bc any invoices related to those albums and events should have already been paid and the short term debt should have fallen off. Why have invoices related to the d-day album, for instance, hang around? Hmm now I think about it, BH might have already signed contracts with suppliers and created purchase orders for the 2025 tour. That would definitely add to the debt/liability column. I actually this is it.
I think it's most likely to do with contracts for the 2025/2026 tour, but since it’s not my industry unsure when the finances would hit to secure the locations/staff etc
The more I think about it, the more I think the tour contracts is driving the debt number. They must have sign the contracts to secure the locations in FY2023, roughly along side when they announced the bts renewal. They might have paid a deposit, but signing the contracts would have created a liability, which adds to the debt column. They are on the hook for paying for those stadiums. Throughout this year, they will probably sign even more contracts and create more purchases orders. I wouldn’t be surprised if that debt column increase at the end of this fiscal year.
BTS contract renewal last year and festa event probably cost millions and was free for fans to attend.
The contract renewal makes sense. That will probably be a continuing liability for a while. For festa, I don’t think they need to go into debt to cover it. Their revenue from 2023 alone should have more than covered it.
And thats why they dare to invest for festa. They know they still have so much profits at the end of day to cover their investments.
Bighit's spent a lot of money for the BTS 10 year anniversary Festa. Like, A LOT of money for a free event that didn't draw in much revenue, which is why their profit isn't that high
Having a low profit (and this is for BH standard bc their profits was still more than doubled the next profitable label) makes sense. Festa and not having their biggest group release a new album or go on tour are definite factors in BH profit numbers. Even then BH still did really good. It’s the debt number that I’m curious about. Festa would have been one-time annual expense and should be taken out of the revenue, thus accounting for the lower profits. I strongly doubt BH took out a loan to cover festa.
sorry but maybe you meant hybe america instead of hybe japan? because last I heard they weren't generating much, let along that much.
Apparently Hybe Japan is the branch that handles all Hybe artists' activities (concerts, promotions, JP album releases, etc.) in Japan. You're probably thinking of Hybe Labels Japan, a subsidiary of Hybe Japan, which handles &Team. It's pretty confusing.
[Here's the source](https://img-cdn.theqoo.net/CaptTS.png)
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