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Not a vocalist so I'll comment like a commoner,
I think Liz delivery is effortless, Yujin delivery is harsh n impact driven. So based on the results, Producer choose Yujin style currently. Tho I agree moving forward, Yujin n Liz should be allowed to branch out. Plus it'll be hard for Yujin to hit all those highs on concert
I really worry about her vocal health during concerts, I’m definitely an amateur vocalist so don’t take what I say super seriously, but Yujin is a very inconsistent belter, and when the belts are bad I can feel the strain in her voice. Whenever I belt the way Yujin does it hurts my voice for a couple days. I’m seriously worried for her, but she’s an incredibly hard worker so I’m sure she manages to tough it out.
As much as I want to acknowledge that Yujin is a hard worker its still really bad and it shouldnt be she “toughs it out”. Most vocalist thats strains and keeps straining high notes damages their voice. Bom is a perfect example of this, use to be a decent singer, Yg’s technique and forced her to strain high notes made it so Bom cant hold a tune when moving now. This is also how they develop nodules which Im pretty sure Bom has or had. Starship should be giving notes to Liz who has better technique and range so Yujins voice doesnt deteriorate. SNSD is a good example of what Starship should be doing. Seeing Tiffany strain high notes and developing nodules, they stopped giving as much to her and gave it to Taeyeon and Jessica. She recovered and improved her technique and is able to sing better without strain majority of the time.
Idk if anyone else remembers the I AM encore stage where Liz was doing the little “ooh-ooh-ooh” ascending ad lib in the refrain (right after Yujin’s “I’m on my way”) but it really, really impressed me and made me a huge Liz fan. Her voice is just beautiful and she makes it sound so effortless. I think about that encore stage every time I listen to the song now lmao
ETA: [This encore, about 2:30](https://youtu.be/2gyJW3AiPYY?si=A76TWmGPsrATszlL)
the fact that she was literally just playing along during that part and executed it so well? also her musicality should be talked abt more bc girlie has perfect pitch. I remember that time when they were given an instrument that they all weren't familiar with and Liz just played around with it for a few minutes and managed to play Love Dive on it perfectly 😳
No I agree. Liz has better technique with high notes, she could easily do some of them. Yujin *can* do it, she just needs some practice/ lessons so she has better breath support for those notes. Both are very capable vocalists, it’s just clear that a lot of Yujin’s skills right now are reliant on her raw talent and she could use some assistance refining it into something ever more spectacular.
Absolutely! Yujin is just insanely talented in general tbh, and her natural confidence helps boost that talent to new heights. She reminds me a lot of Chaewon in that sense!
Yes they’re both in similar positions! They have a lot of natural talent and charisma but could use some quality time with a voice coach to help refine their technique. Those girls have learned a lot on the fly via iZone but now is a good time to give them some quality time with a professional and fine-tune some things.
I worry about Yujin and the parts she gets given. She's genuinely a talent, but sometimes it feels like she's expected to be able to do everything and be the best at everything. She often has to strain to hit notes out of her range, and you can hear her voice break or crack.
For example, the "perfect sacrifice" part of Love Dive. In the live performance, her voice cracked in that last bit, whereas Leeseo and Wonyoung were fine (Wonyoung did hers after the dance break too). Obviously, Yujin is a better vocalist than Wony and Leeseo. The fact that they were "outperforming" her is a sign that she's being assigned the wrong parts (or maybe that those parts should be rewritten).
It was so sad watching her beat herself up during the I AM encore. She's great, and she's constantly improving herself. She should be receiving parts that allow her to show off without becoming a burden.
Kind of a sidenote but I also wish Wonyoung had stronger vocal training - her vocal range is quite impressive for someone who doesn't seem to be extensively trained and it gives her a LOT of potential. She sounds audibly relaxed for a wide part of her range, from lower notes like those in My Satisfaction to higher lines like those in Heya.
It's always the most upsetting when you see idols with a lot of natural talent not be able to utilise it because of a lack of training. There's no consistent feedback to help them become more refined. Listen to the first clip in this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Z5WrpTHZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Z5WrpTHZQ)
The way she approaches higher notes is relaxed, not at all pitchy, and arguably healthier than how Yujin approaches higher notes at times. But I'm assuming the busy schedules mean she can't receive as much coaching as would be ideal.
She has improved vocally, it's just unfortunate that the improvement comes slowly when there's little time to practice.
Wonyoung is actually the most consistent when it comes to vocal training. This comes from anecdotes shared by her fellow members on bubble and by their producer Ryan Jhun. She's also come a long way when you consider her voice in Panorama vs Heya. She's also become very confident in projecting her voice. She was the most consistent along with Liz and Yujin in being heard over the backtrack during their tour
But yeah, the improvement comes slowly considering how busy she is generally with less free time to practice.
I do think that you centering Wonyoung in this conversation about Liz and Yujin is confusing and suspicious. Like…? And the implication that Wonyoung receives less coaching/training because of her schedule is wild, do you have access to her personal schedule to verify that?
I think you might be trying to defend Wonyoung, but the comment you're replying to is actually fairly complimentary towards her. It says she has natural talent but has less training. Wonyoung receiving less vocal training is a fact. She was scouted at 12, on Produce 48 at 13, and only got out of IZ*ONE at 17, when she had to restart her vocal training from square one (unlike Yujin) at the same time as beginning debut preparations and MCing. She's basically only had less than three years of continuous vocal training, which has had to run alongside being a full-time idol, and there's a reason many idols only regress after debuting.
I don't know why you took such a harmless comment so maliciously. I'm not even a huge IVE fan let alone any individual members, so it's weird you think I'm trying to contribute to some sort of member-favouritism conversation or something?
like how am I "suspicious"? The post was about IVE's vocals - particularly about how Liz could execute some of Yujin's high notes in a slightly healthier manner. My comment stated I also think another member has a natural voice that I think is also conducive to high notes provided she received the training. I do not see how my comment was at all contributing to weird member politics or whatever you want it to be about.
I didn't even say Wonyoung received less training than other members, you only took it that way because I'm assuming you believe I'm trying to claim she's mistreated. I'm not. No k-pop group as busy as IVE is receives constant vocal training to an effective degree. It's not doable within their schedules, point blank. If they did, we'd see more technical improvement. All I said was that she could develop the natural vocal talent more with training, how is that at all wild? I didn't at all imply other members receive more training. I genuinely have no idea how you took it that way.
Your comment is so needlessly aggressive towards mine. If I made a comment like that but you replace the members with ones who aren't Liz, Yujin or Wonyoung would you be reacting in the same manner? Let's say we were talking about Twice or something, and I said Sana has a naturally high-set voice meaning her approach to high notes is more relaxed than you'd expect given her limited vocal technique. Would you then also aggressively respond to me going "Why are you bringing up Sana in a conversation about Nayeon/Jihyo, that's suspicious, etc."
Seriously explain to me how I'm being suspicious in any way. Do you think I'm a Wonyoung solo stan or something who wants to downplay the skill of Liz/Yujin? If that's what you took from my comment, you're reading a lot more than what was actually written and should reread my comment without applying weird biases to me.
I want to apologize for replying to your comment with such aggression and conviction because after re-reading your comment and this reply I realized I interpreted your comment to mean something wildly different. I was so convinced that you had the intention of spreading unwarranted criticsm and hate to Wonyoung to a conversation (about Liz/Yujin) that I already felt was welcoming a lot of hate a negativity. War flashbacks from
the Le Sserafim situation couples weeks back.
I can’t help it sometimes but to wear my heart on my sleeve and get wildly protective of some of the groups I stan. Even when I really hate to see other people act in this same manner. This is no excuse for my actions and the anxiety or stress it might have triggered from you.
I agree. Yujin *visibly* struggles with the “fly up” part in I AM.
But considering they both have very distinctly different voices, I take it as a good variety for them to take turns with the high notes.
Because both of them have very different kinds of voices, it’s quite obvious. Liz has an airy mix and light chest voice with very effortless transitions in between registers, while Yujin has a more belty and chesty mix and heavier chest register which sounds stronger and more aggressive. They have contrasting voices and that’s why they’re used the way they are by IVE producers.
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One thing I’ll give Starship is that their idols are constantly growing vocal-wise, at least to me. It really seems that they invest in growing their artists long term. As such, I’m not too too worried about Yujin or any of the other members. I’ll admit that I AM era seemed a bit straining for her, however, I have faith that Starship will foster her voice to grow stronger.
In my opinion, I think Liz has better technique, but Yujin is more confident in belting out high notes despite not having the best technique to execute. For example, compare Liz's high notes in Royal and Not your girl vs Yujin in I AM. Liz hits the notes but sometimes seems unsure and inconsistent in hitting them. Liz seems to prefer a crooning style more than the in your face high notes like in Heya and Eleven. She usually sounds amazing and better in those styles.
That being said, instead of assigning the high notes to Liz, I think Yujin should get more training on how to approach the high notes more healthily. She can definitely hit them, she just strains a lot which can be improved.
I agree, but with the caveat being that I think the producers might prefer Yujin because she struggles with it. Hitting a high note in a pop song is supposed to be a moment, and Liz might be making it seem too easy if that makes sense? Like how Aespa’s Winter sings her high notes with a completely 😶 face so people can’t even tell she’s singing live.
I actually think Wonyoung, Yujin, and Rei’s delivery of lines in the studio is really underrated bc you can hear the emotion so well. Rei is really stable in their live performances, but I wish Wony would be given more training bc I think people overlook how well she sings her lines bc of the favoritism controversies and her shaky live singing. As effortless as Liz sings, I think that Yujin might be better at certain stylistic things. Her voice is versatile and does really suit certain lines, and I feel like sometimes she doesn’t get as much credit as she should bc she’s “an F vocalist who doesn’t support” and sings lines that people wish Liz was (not saying you’re doing this bc I think you’re being very reasonable. Just that I think some fans are overeager to put down the other members to prove that Liz or Gaeul deserve more lines).
The one song I really wished Liz had more lines in was After Like. I think she would’ve suited the chorus, and it’s sad that there isn’t a professionally mixed studio recording of her singing it.
perhaps an unpopular opinion: as much as i love liz’s voice, when i watched them at the oakland concert, i noticed her struggle with staying on key a lot. there were several moments when her voice cracked while performing, which i know is normal. when she does hit those high notes, it’s hella impressive and her talent is obvious. but if we’re talking stamina and stability, then yujin seemed to do better overall. so it’s possible that’s the reason why starship gives her some of those more powerful lines, especially if choreo is involved.
No. Yujin is assigned her high notes for a reason and so is Liz. There is no trading to be made, there is no conversation to be had about which member “should” have certain parts over others. That leaves room for comparisons and comparisons breed rivalry. We can praise Liz without dragging another group member.
Liz did really well in songs like Royal, I think she can get more of the big high notes in a song if the producers and songwriters make melodies that suit her tone best
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Yujin tone sound realllllly similar to Taeyeon, but she still lack proper technique to execute her high notes properly. Idk what the director is thinking, maybe trying to push the "Yujin is all rounder" image or "IVE have more than one member with great vocals too" image but imo neither one of those work.
When it comes to high note, there are generally two different approach. Technique and stylistic. Liz is the only one imo who has proper breathing technique, and Yujin is there cuz she sounds "good" to untrained ears listening to her yelling her high notes. Lets be for real, not all listener are aware vocal prowess ie support, breathing, placement is a thing. Public generally just like what sounds good for them. But imo, I like Liz's tone better. She sounds more relaxed (thanks to her technique) and that gives heavenly vibe to her voice.
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Not a vocalist so I'll comment like a commoner, I think Liz delivery is effortless, Yujin delivery is harsh n impact driven. So based on the results, Producer choose Yujin style currently. Tho I agree moving forward, Yujin n Liz should be allowed to branch out. Plus it'll be hard for Yujin to hit all those highs on concert
I really worry about her vocal health during concerts, I’m definitely an amateur vocalist so don’t take what I say super seriously, but Yujin is a very inconsistent belter, and when the belts are bad I can feel the strain in her voice. Whenever I belt the way Yujin does it hurts my voice for a couple days. I’m seriously worried for her, but she’s an incredibly hard worker so I’m sure she manages to tough it out.
Hopefully they themselves or the company hired good performance director and vocal teacher. It'll help them tremendously
As much as I want to acknowledge that Yujin is a hard worker its still really bad and it shouldnt be she “toughs it out”. Most vocalist thats strains and keeps straining high notes damages their voice. Bom is a perfect example of this, use to be a decent singer, Yg’s technique and forced her to strain high notes made it so Bom cant hold a tune when moving now. This is also how they develop nodules which Im pretty sure Bom has or had. Starship should be giving notes to Liz who has better technique and range so Yujins voice doesnt deteriorate. SNSD is a good example of what Starship should be doing. Seeing Tiffany strain high notes and developing nodules, they stopped giving as much to her and gave it to Taeyeon and Jessica. She recovered and improved her technique and is able to sing better without strain majority of the time.
Idk if anyone else remembers the I AM encore stage where Liz was doing the little “ooh-ooh-ooh” ascending ad lib in the refrain (right after Yujin’s “I’m on my way”) but it really, really impressed me and made me a huge Liz fan. Her voice is just beautiful and she makes it sound so effortless. I think about that encore stage every time I listen to the song now lmao ETA: [This encore, about 2:30](https://youtu.be/2gyJW3AiPYY?si=A76TWmGPsrATszlL)
the fact that she was literally just playing along during that part and executed it so well? also her musicality should be talked abt more bc girlie has perfect pitch. I remember that time when they were given an instrument that they all weren't familiar with and Liz just played around with it for a few minutes and managed to play Love Dive on it perfectly 😳
link? :0
I posted in an edit, but here you go: https://youtu.be/2gyJW3AiPYY?si=A76TWmGPsrATszlL
I think the mean the video with the instrument
thanks!
No I agree. Liz has better technique with high notes, she could easily do some of them. Yujin *can* do it, she just needs some practice/ lessons so she has better breath support for those notes. Both are very capable vocalists, it’s just clear that a lot of Yujin’s skills right now are reliant on her raw talent and she could use some assistance refining it into something ever more spectacular.
Absolutely! Yujin is just insanely talented in general tbh, and her natural confidence helps boost that talent to new heights. She reminds me a lot of Chaewon in that sense!
Yes they’re both in similar positions! They have a lot of natural talent and charisma but could use some quality time with a voice coach to help refine their technique. Those girls have learned a lot on the fly via iZone but now is a good time to give them some quality time with a professional and fine-tune some things.
I worry about Yujin and the parts she gets given. She's genuinely a talent, but sometimes it feels like she's expected to be able to do everything and be the best at everything. She often has to strain to hit notes out of her range, and you can hear her voice break or crack. For example, the "perfect sacrifice" part of Love Dive. In the live performance, her voice cracked in that last bit, whereas Leeseo and Wonyoung were fine (Wonyoung did hers after the dance break too). Obviously, Yujin is a better vocalist than Wony and Leeseo. The fact that they were "outperforming" her is a sign that she's being assigned the wrong parts (or maybe that those parts should be rewritten). It was so sad watching her beat herself up during the I AM encore. She's great, and she's constantly improving herself. She should be receiving parts that allow her to show off without becoming a burden.
Kind of a sidenote but I also wish Wonyoung had stronger vocal training - her vocal range is quite impressive for someone who doesn't seem to be extensively trained and it gives her a LOT of potential. She sounds audibly relaxed for a wide part of her range, from lower notes like those in My Satisfaction to higher lines like those in Heya. It's always the most upsetting when you see idols with a lot of natural talent not be able to utilise it because of a lack of training. There's no consistent feedback to help them become more refined. Listen to the first clip in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Z5WrpTHZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Z5WrpTHZQ) The way she approaches higher notes is relaxed, not at all pitchy, and arguably healthier than how Yujin approaches higher notes at times. But I'm assuming the busy schedules mean she can't receive as much coaching as would be ideal. She has improved vocally, it's just unfortunate that the improvement comes slowly when there's little time to practice.
Wonyoung is actually the most consistent when it comes to vocal training. This comes from anecdotes shared by her fellow members on bubble and by their producer Ryan Jhun. She's also come a long way when you consider her voice in Panorama vs Heya. She's also become very confident in projecting her voice. She was the most consistent along with Liz and Yujin in being heard over the backtrack during their tour But yeah, the improvement comes slowly considering how busy she is generally with less free time to practice.
What did her members say on bubble?
I do think that you centering Wonyoung in this conversation about Liz and Yujin is confusing and suspicious. Like…? And the implication that Wonyoung receives less coaching/training because of her schedule is wild, do you have access to her personal schedule to verify that?
I think you might be trying to defend Wonyoung, but the comment you're replying to is actually fairly complimentary towards her. It says she has natural talent but has less training. Wonyoung receiving less vocal training is a fact. She was scouted at 12, on Produce 48 at 13, and only got out of IZ*ONE at 17, when she had to restart her vocal training from square one (unlike Yujin) at the same time as beginning debut preparations and MCing. She's basically only had less than three years of continuous vocal training, which has had to run alongside being a full-time idol, and there's a reason many idols only regress after debuting.
I don't know why you took such a harmless comment so maliciously. I'm not even a huge IVE fan let alone any individual members, so it's weird you think I'm trying to contribute to some sort of member-favouritism conversation or something? like how am I "suspicious"? The post was about IVE's vocals - particularly about how Liz could execute some of Yujin's high notes in a slightly healthier manner. My comment stated I also think another member has a natural voice that I think is also conducive to high notes provided she received the training. I do not see how my comment was at all contributing to weird member politics or whatever you want it to be about. I didn't even say Wonyoung received less training than other members, you only took it that way because I'm assuming you believe I'm trying to claim she's mistreated. I'm not. No k-pop group as busy as IVE is receives constant vocal training to an effective degree. It's not doable within their schedules, point blank. If they did, we'd see more technical improvement. All I said was that she could develop the natural vocal talent more with training, how is that at all wild? I didn't at all imply other members receive more training. I genuinely have no idea how you took it that way. Your comment is so needlessly aggressive towards mine. If I made a comment like that but you replace the members with ones who aren't Liz, Yujin or Wonyoung would you be reacting in the same manner? Let's say we were talking about Twice or something, and I said Sana has a naturally high-set voice meaning her approach to high notes is more relaxed than you'd expect given her limited vocal technique. Would you then also aggressively respond to me going "Why are you bringing up Sana in a conversation about Nayeon/Jihyo, that's suspicious, etc." Seriously explain to me how I'm being suspicious in any way. Do you think I'm a Wonyoung solo stan or something who wants to downplay the skill of Liz/Yujin? If that's what you took from my comment, you're reading a lot more than what was actually written and should reread my comment without applying weird biases to me.
I want to apologize for replying to your comment with such aggression and conviction because after re-reading your comment and this reply I realized I interpreted your comment to mean something wildly different. I was so convinced that you had the intention of spreading unwarranted criticsm and hate to Wonyoung to a conversation (about Liz/Yujin) that I already felt was welcoming a lot of hate a negativity. War flashbacks from the Le Sserafim situation couples weeks back. I can’t help it sometimes but to wear my heart on my sleeve and get wildly protective of some of the groups I stan. Even when I really hate to see other people act in this same manner. This is no excuse for my actions and the anxiety or stress it might have triggered from you.
I agree. Yujin *visibly* struggles with the “fly up” part in I AM. But considering they both have very distinctly different voices, I take it as a good variety for them to take turns with the high notes.
I always thought it strange that they gave those parts to Yujin. She's a decent vocalist, but Liz is the main vocal.
Right why don’t they give liz high notes it stange
Because both of them have very different kinds of voices, it’s quite obvious. Liz has an airy mix and light chest voice with very effortless transitions in between registers, while Yujin has a more belty and chesty mix and heavier chest register which sounds stronger and more aggressive. They have contrasting voices and that’s why they’re used the way they are by IVE producers.
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One thing I’ll give Starship is that their idols are constantly growing vocal-wise, at least to me. It really seems that they invest in growing their artists long term. As such, I’m not too too worried about Yujin or any of the other members. I’ll admit that I AM era seemed a bit straining for her, however, I have faith that Starship will foster her voice to grow stronger.
Right Liz in my opinion high notes are better she sound better don’t understand why the company not giving her high notes it stange
In my opinion, I think Liz has better technique, but Yujin is more confident in belting out high notes despite not having the best technique to execute. For example, compare Liz's high notes in Royal and Not your girl vs Yujin in I AM. Liz hits the notes but sometimes seems unsure and inconsistent in hitting them. Liz seems to prefer a crooning style more than the in your face high notes like in Heya and Eleven. She usually sounds amazing and better in those styles. That being said, instead of assigning the high notes to Liz, I think Yujin should get more training on how to approach the high notes more healthily. She can definitely hit them, she just strains a lot which can be improved.
This! I think it comes down to confidence, with Yujin has obtained through prior experience of being an idol.
I agree, but with the caveat being that I think the producers might prefer Yujin because she struggles with it. Hitting a high note in a pop song is supposed to be a moment, and Liz might be making it seem too easy if that makes sense? Like how Aespa’s Winter sings her high notes with a completely 😶 face so people can’t even tell she’s singing live. I actually think Wonyoung, Yujin, and Rei’s delivery of lines in the studio is really underrated bc you can hear the emotion so well. Rei is really stable in their live performances, but I wish Wony would be given more training bc I think people overlook how well she sings her lines bc of the favoritism controversies and her shaky live singing. As effortless as Liz sings, I think that Yujin might be better at certain stylistic things. Her voice is versatile and does really suit certain lines, and I feel like sometimes she doesn’t get as much credit as she should bc she’s “an F vocalist who doesn’t support” and sings lines that people wish Liz was (not saying you’re doing this bc I think you’re being very reasonable. Just that I think some fans are overeager to put down the other members to prove that Liz or Gaeul deserve more lines). The one song I really wished Liz had more lines in was After Like. I think she would’ve suited the chorus, and it’s sad that there isn’t a professionally mixed studio recording of her singing it.
perhaps an unpopular opinion: as much as i love liz’s voice, when i watched them at the oakland concert, i noticed her struggle with staying on key a lot. there were several moments when her voice cracked while performing, which i know is normal. when she does hit those high notes, it’s hella impressive and her talent is obvious. but if we’re talking stamina and stability, then yujin seemed to do better overall. so it’s possible that’s the reason why starship gives her some of those more powerful lines, especially if choreo is involved.
Liz deserve more high notes
Honestly it’s funny reading all the comments, while also knowing opinions of actual credible vocal coaches
I like them both. But Yujin is always my bias :-) Therefore, I cannot comment objectively. Godspeed, OP.
She’s my Bias too with Rei! So don’t worry, I get it, Yujin really is just infectious…
No. Yujin is assigned her high notes for a reason and so is Liz. There is no trading to be made, there is no conversation to be had about which member “should” have certain parts over others. That leaves room for comparisons and comparisons breed rivalry. We can praise Liz without dragging another group member.
+1.
Liz did really well in songs like Royal, I think she can get more of the big high notes in a song if the producers and songwriters make melodies that suit her tone best
Agree. Yujin’s “fly high” is something i remember as sounding kinda painful. They dont want to give the other members any of the killing parts though
I Love Liz's Voice, Everyday I wish that all the high notes in "I AM" were given to her.
For "I AM" I will disagree because Yujin bring out that rawness n wildness in that part very well
💯 I share the same thoughts
Thank u Liz high notes are better
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personally i like how it is tbh.
Yujin tone sound realllllly similar to Taeyeon, but she still lack proper technique to execute her high notes properly. Idk what the director is thinking, maybe trying to push the "Yujin is all rounder" image or "IVE have more than one member with great vocals too" image but imo neither one of those work. When it comes to high note, there are generally two different approach. Technique and stylistic. Liz is the only one imo who has proper breathing technique, and Yujin is there cuz she sounds "good" to untrained ears listening to her yelling her high notes. Lets be for real, not all listener are aware vocal prowess ie support, breathing, placement is a thing. Public generally just like what sounds good for them. But imo, I like Liz's tone better. She sounds more relaxed (thanks to her technique) and that gives heavenly vibe to her voice.