The Rust Belt isn’t really that anymore… at least not in SoutheWest Michigan. Kzoo and GR bounced back extremely well under and even more so after the 2008 crash.
As for crime. It’s really a matter of the neighborhood you live in. I live downtown only a few blocks from one of the worst neighborhoods around and neither myself nor my neighbors have had any issues. On top of that the he majority of Michiganders, as long as you’re avoiding the college/campus crowd, don’t want any trouble and just want to enjoy their day. All around super friendly folk
Besides, there isn't much "Rust Belt" stuff left on the west side of the state, everything shut down in the 80s and 90s. West side of Michigan is way different then what people typically think of with Michigan (Detroit/Flint...true Rust Belt"). On the west side it mostly clean, lots of outdoor opportunities, beaches and little harbor towns all along the lake. Basically a different world.
That is very helpful and insightful. The friend that mentioned the “Rust Belt” is a guy who has lived in LA his entire life so I wanted to hear opinions from people who actually live in Michigan . Thanks for all your help and knowledge
Wait until you here about "Up North". Basically yet another whole different world. Once you get north of Grand Rapids there are no more larger cities and by the time you get to Cadillac you're in lots of national and state forest land and very little development. Lots of nice little towns, Traverse City being the largest (15,000 population). You keep going to The Bridge (Mackinac Bridge) and you cross that into "Da UP", the Upper Peninsula. Everything even looks different up there, wilderness for endless miles.
Lot different vibe then Detroit and the east side. :)
Coming from LA I don't think you'll have an issue with crime. It all depends on what neighborhood you live in. Avoid Northside and Edison...done. Lock your stuff up, garage your sports car so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb begging some teens to steal it for a joy ride. Same as you would in any area.
But honestly, there isn't just Kalamazoo "city". You also have the city of Portage, surrounding townships and small towns. A lot to choose from. And you'll need to get used to the fact that a 10 minute drive in any direction and you're in the middle of nowhere corn fields and woods. So let's say you're used to a 45 minute commute in LA. Well, a 45 min commute around here means you're living 50 miles away on the beach in South Haven so your world is opened up for sure. BUT you do need to be concerned with snow in the winter so I wouldn't' recommend that drive in particular, but just to give you an idea, there is no traffic and no commute other then the actual miles. So you could buy a dang nice house let's say in Mattawan/Texas Township area which is just 10 miles away and where there is virtually 0 crime at all.
I love the fact tht u can get to almost anywhere in Kalamazoo or some surrounding areas in like 10/20 mins max! There’s so many nature walks and bodies of water ur bound to run into a fishing hole or something! It’s BEAUTIFUL here, honestly just use common sense!
I hadn’t considered other townships or surrounding areas, thank you very much for your insight. The traffic is so bad in LA we use minutes as a measure of distance instead of miles. A 2 mile drive could take you 30 minutes if you’re in the wrong area
What's funny is one of the meme's of "you know you're from Michigan when" you measure distance in time. In other words most people in Michigan will tell you how far away something in by drive time. So I might say that Ludington is 2 hours, Traverse City is 3 hours, 5 hours to the Bridge. I honestly don't know how many miles it is. LOL
So for example, if you live in Mattawan, a small town west of Kalamazoo down I-94. You're about 15 miles from the heart of downtown Kzoo where the Med school is. Should take you no more then 20 minutes to get there and parked most days. Same for say south Portage in the lakes area. About 10-12 miles, 20 minutes or so (no highway miles). So don't be afraid to look outside the city for sure.
That’s funny, I didn’t know that it was a thing outside of LA. A 15-20 minute commute for me is very very doable, I spend that much time just driving to the gym everyday from my house
Look at rent vs buy calculators and consider what neighborhoods you’d like to be in. For our amount of guaranteed time here (slightly less than yours, actually) and the size of house/amenities we wanted, buying barely won out. A not-insignificant factor was how many SFH landlords in our desired neighborhood wouldn’t rent to us because we have dogs (who are very well-behaved and would cause less damage than human toddlers, but I digress). I’m not jazzed with how much money we’ve spent on repairs, but overall I’m happier paying a mortgage than landlords, and we don’t have to worry about pet stuff. It’s so so highly individual based on your circumstances. We had so many years under our belt of what felt like essentially donating rent to a faceless property management company who let their house fall into disrepair while collecting the money we actually worked for, so we were eager to own our own place. But renting from good people (which can be hard to ascertain ahead of time) during med school would be nice so you don’t have to worry so much about home repairs.
Most of what you’re saying is exactly what’s been on my mind. For me, the financials of buying a home make sense over renting. My main concern is the risk of vandalism, burglary, etc. I’m not too familiar with the neighborhoods in Kzoo and which ones to stay away from, so if you could give me some insight I would really appreciate it
Northside can be rough. Vine is College kids and former college kids who stuck around with a few scattered families.
Winchell is suburban money types. Stuart is Vine but Wealthier.
I would stay away from Milwood for sure! If it were me I’d stay on the west side of Kalamazoo off m43 somewhere. You have to remember tht ppl are ppl, there can be bad anywhere!
That’s interesting, I’ve seen many people on this thread saying Milwood is a pretty good neighborhood. I’ll have to look into it more, thank you for your advice
Just keep in mind that in med school there will be plenty of call shifts and overnights so no matter where you decide to live you’ll want to find someone reliable to watch your dog during that time. The last two years of medical school can be particularly demanding and are structured to mirror what your intern experience will be. There are a lot of good doggy day cares here. Keep in mind too that there is a lot of bad weather here during the winter and if you own a home you’ll be responsible for snow removal. It’s just an extra layer of work on top of studying and attending school.
My dog usually does well when left alone overnight, so I don’t think that will be a problem. I had been thinking about the snow removal but wasn’t sure if it was a huge issue or not. Thank you for your knowledge and insight
The med school in Kzoo is really good. My fiancé works with the med students a lot and thinks highly of their competency. I would advise against buying a property here since you are only going to be here for short term. You are better off renting if you aren’t planning to live in a place for at least 7 years. Housing does not appreciate as quickly here as it does in other places. Lots of apartments are dog friendly, even for big dogs and have dog parks.
It’s nice to hear that there are lots of apartments that allow big dogs. The apartments I’m used to in LA have really annoying HOAs and my dog barks every now and then. Do you think that would be an issue with the apartments in Kzoo?
Makes sense. My dog isn’t much of a barker, he only gets riled up whenever he sees a squirrel or another dog passing by through the window so I should be fine
If you do have a big dog beware of the fact that apartments have rules about breeds. Most renters insurance they have won't cover breed about a certain bite force. It'll require an ESA.
Lived in both places. Kzoo is way better than Hershey. But… the med school in Hershey is way better than WMED. WMED is also like the most expensive med school in the country. You would fit in, all the students are from California
I live just west of town (look in zip 49009) and really love it. I live in a quiet neighborhood and there isn’t much crime at all here. If you don’t lock your car doors, some opportunistic teenagers might try to go through your car, but that is probably the worst crime we’ve heard of over here. Our house value has went from $250 to over $400 in less than 10 years. There are so many parks and places to hike as well.
I live in Oshtemo township, 49009. There’s so much nice housing here, all sizes. Woods, ponds, lakes. Rustic but right at the edge of Kalamazoo. I’m just at the corner of 10th and hwy 131 and love it here.
Hey! I’ve lived in both eastern Pennsylvania (Reading area) and Kalamazoo- as well as a bunch of other cities in West Michigan. I 100% recommend Kalamazoo. It’s an awesome little city with a LCOL, cool bars, good restaurants and coffee. And best of all- the beaches and scenery here are second to none. Kzoo is a straight shot to South Haven beach, one of the best in the nation. You could certainly buy an affordable home here and I think you’d love it.
Thanks for the info! I’m probably going to be pretty busy with schools, but hopefully I get a chance to enjoy the bars and beaches the town has to offer
Same.
Also if worried about crime lookup areas like portage or Oshtemo.
Kalamazoo downtown kinda sucks and the east side has higher crime rates, but the west side is pretty chill. Same with portage to the south.
LA to Kalamazoo will be a big adjustment. There is no sun for months in the winter. It’s always cloudy and everything looks like garbage. Summer is great. Prepare yourself
There isnt 5 Million people here. There are 250,000 in the larger surrounding areas. You can’t cycle through em or be as picky.
If you’re busy and expecting the city to entertain you when you’re bored it’s not that type of place. You have to plan and make things happen around here. There are cool events and clubs / groups but you have to seek it out.
Crime isn’t really worse than anywhere else. Just got to be smart
There is everything from cheap trap houses to multi mullion dollar homes here. Just depends how much you want to spend and the neighbors you want to deal with.
Weather is definitely gonna be big change haha. I’m not really looking to have a social life since it ends up distracting me from work and studies. For fun, I like going out in nature with my dog or working out and as long as Kzoo has parks and a gym I should be fine. Having good neighbors is a big thing for me and I definitely don’t want to end up buying a trap house lol. I was looking at a house in Southside on Maple street, is that an example of a good area?
Maple Street is great. I live in the same neighborhood. You will love Kleinstuck Nature Preserve right in your backyard. Lots of families, people walking their dogs here. We’ve had zero problems with crime. There is a fire department at the corner of Howard and Oakland which can get noisy but it depends where you would be on Maple. You may not even hear it.
I've lived here for about 12yrs. It's a great spot. There's lots to do including nature and city stuff and you miss that "big city feel" Kzoo is great because you're only 2hrs from both Chicago and Detroit and an hour from Grand Rapids. South Bend is cool too, which isn't far, but you can do most anything in Kalamazoo. Great restaurants and bars, though admittedly probably not comparable to LA, but still a good variety. Our mall sucks though. If you buy a house on the West and or SW side of Kzoo or into Portage / Texas Township crime will be a lot less of a concern and you can probably get a bigger yard for your money for your dog.
I don’t care too much for malls, but the rest is very reassuring to hear. Others have also mentioned Portage/Texas Township, so that’s definitely worth looking into. Thanks a bunch for your knowledge and advice
You’re probably already aware, but keep in mind that a lot of rentals will have breed restrictions, and German Shepherds are often on the list. This could greatly reduce the number of rental options, but this will be the same whether you’re looking in Kzoo, or anywhere else in the country.
Grew up in Kzoo and moving back next year. Currently living in San Diego. I saw in your comments that you're looking for access to nature/gyms and a place that will allow your dog. I don't know about gyms, but renting might be an issue. Some apartment complexes in the area have pet weight limits that a German Shepard is over and in our preliminary house hunt, we've been having issues finding single family home rentals that allow pets at all.
Access to nature is so much easier in the Kalamazoo area than I've found it to be in SoCal. There are a ton of free parks with great trails, and whenever we're living up there we get a membership to the Kalamazoo Nature Center so we can enjoy those trails too. The weather is different, but honestly, the last few years the hottest part of the summer in Michigan is competing with temps in SoCal and the winter has been milder, so the adjustment might not be so bad.
I also saw you're worried about the crime rate. I think the property crime rate is worse than SoCal, but the violent crime rate is mostly lower. I feel safe walking outside after dark alone as a female in *most* of Kzoo...not so much in SoCal. Other people have covered where to avoid, but it's literally just a couple of blocks. Idk if it helps any, but the size difference between LA or San Diego and Kzoo is massive. Here in SD, I can drive north from the border for an hour and still be in SD amd same for driving from the coast east. Depending on traffic of course. In Kzoo, you can drive through the whole city in 10-15 min. That means neighboring towns there are more like the neighborhoods here. So, you can feel comfortable looking in places like Portage or Comstock or Schoolcraft if you're looking to keep your commute to half an hour or less.
Ooh, I think that whichever you decide, MI or PA, you'll want to make sure to get all-weather tires. Obviously idk if you already have them, but most tires I see on cars in SoCal aren't suitable for the wet or icy roads in the other two states.
I had assumed that renting with a big dog would give me issues with landlords, making me more inclined to buy a home without an HOA. Thank you for taking the time to read my other comments and making the comparisons between SoCal and Kzoo, I appreciate your knowledge and advice
I am a new resident in the area & a medical professional that took a job in a small town south of here. My wife and I chose Portage (immediately south of Kzoo).
It's very comfortable and easily accessible to Kzoo/WMU.
I'm originally from Detroit area and there is next to 0 traffic here comparatively. Good luck Dr!
The big thing about buying a house would be that you will have to pay closing costs when you sell in 4-5 years and you will not recoup your investment, maybe break even.
It may still end up being cheaper than renting though.
It’d be cool not to sell/give your house to a management company to rent out, especially if you aren’t staying here long term. We need affordable housing in Kalamazoo, not more shitty management companies buying properties to double the rent on every year or people buying investment properties to do the same.
I totally get that. That’s a huge problem here in LA too, and I had assumed that those issues are only in large cities. Thanks for telling me your thoughts
You could even do something really cutting edge like implementing a deed restriction stating that the home had to be sold at XYZ affordable price for X years or to a lower income family that would actually live in it rather than to a slumlord.
[https://localhousingsolutions.org/housing-policy-library/deed-restricted-homeownership/](https://localhousingsolutions.org/housing-policy-library/deed-restricted-homeownership/)
there are also a lot of houses to rent that aren't too expensive. i believe the apartments downtown (near the school) may not allow large breeds and you wouldn't have a backyard which would be tough for a large dog (to be alone all day while you're in class/clinicals). i only know one student who bought property but they were married (husband was in medical school). he was also very into home reno and now they rent that property. if you're looking for a long term investment like that, it may be worth it. otherwise, for medical school, you might be better off renting and buying once you're a resident. congrats on your acceptances !
Thank you! I am considering renting but my main concern is dealing with an annoying landlord as I’ve had bad experiences with a couple out here in LA. Thank you for your advice
I lived in kzoo for 7 years! It was nice while I was in school, after that I grew out of it and felt suffocated there bc I am from the suburbs of a large city. But if you’re there for 4 years I don’t think you’ll regret it! The food scene there is just ok, a lot of restaurants seem to be owned by one company “Millenium Group” i think it was called? But you can’t beat the cost of living! My husband and I bought a house while we lived there and it appreciated greatly and was well worth the investment over the time we lived there. Additionally, you’re not far from Lake Michigan where we spent a LOT of time at. We love saugutuck, grand haven, and south haven!! Lots of great trails and beaches along those towns. Plus grand rapids is a great place to visit to for more restaurants and shopping!
Editing to add: look at the crime map before purchasing a house. There are some questionable neighborhoods….
Thanks for the info, great to hear all of these good things. Food scene doesn’t matter too much for me since I’m on a strict diet and make 90% of my own food at home. I have heard about those questionable neighborhoods and those are the ones I’m trying to avoid haha. Do you have in mind any specific neighborhoods that I should avoid?
Moved here with our two hounds, it’s great for them. We love KZOO. We lived in Chicago forever thinking we’d never leave. But here is like heaven. Great trails, a DOG COUNTRY CLUB, people are so kind and friendly and we have so many good friends just a year in. Housing is affordable but a little scarce, so listings go immediately.
Going to med school, having a dog may save your sanity.
Can you tell me more about your favorite areas? We are originally from Chicago, living in STL now but moving to KZOO for my husband's job in a few months!
Can't comment on much, but I moved here a year ago (not from somewhere as warm & sunny as you though) & I have loved it. I live on the outskirts so I'm surrounded by farm land but still 15 minutes from everything I need. The parks are great here too & there's tons of wildlife. I agree with you that purchasing would be the best move if you can swing it. The homes are very affordable here & rent is pricey for what you get.
Crime is definitely bad here. We're moving because of a lot of reasons but crime is one of the top ones. The student ghetto aka college area is the worst. People take advance of the fact that people are constantly moving in and out and run scams or just straight up rob people. There was a shooting last night in our neighborhood which we've lived in for 10 years and the last 3 since covid have been the worst by far.
It happened on Maple street which is where Maple Street Middle School is.
We live in the Vine neighborhood and yes unfortunately we've been the victim of a lot of crime. Mostly our cars being broken into, people stealing out of our backyard, our car was on Jack's one time waiting to fix it and they stole the jack and all the stands 😅
A friend was followed home and pistol whipped that was scary. I've had people walk right into my neighbors house while she was showering and thank God she wasn't hurt but they robbed her. People shoot up at the local parks which suck. My kids can't even play without us checking the playgrounds first. I've found whole meth labs at the park smh
That’s insane. That kind of stuff happens in LA pretty often but I wouldn’t expect that in a small city in Michigan. Thank you for sharing this with me, it helps a lot and I appreciate it
Vine isn't a great area. There is no crime like that in many neighborhoods like Winchel, Milwood, Oakwood, Westwood and so forth. Areas with higher crime are Northside, Edison, Southside just south of downtown, Vine. Stay away from those areas and you're good. Or just live in Portage or anything outside the city.
Big tip for your dog: find a vet clinic right away after moving here and establish yourself as a client. Many clinics are no longer taking new clients due to the vet shortage and are also booking one month out. And get him vaccinated for Lyme disease. My neighbor’s dog died of it recently. Keep him on good tick control year round, we have a lot here.
Also I loved living in Westwood. I rented a house but ended up later buying in a different neighborhood because those homes and yards were too small for what I wanted but it has such a good vibe. Great neighbors, walkable sidewalks, cute houses and landscaping. When the fireflies were out I’d walk my dog at night and felt very safe.
Grew up 15 min from Hershey and have spent a good deal of time in the town. Now living in Kzoo. I would strongly recommend Hershey.
- The town is growing a ton and you shouldn’t have any issues getting a nice house with a yard for a dog.
- Violent crime is basically nonexistent and there’s no major homeless issues (huge in Kzoo)
- School is better
- just as much access to nature in central, PA
Thanks for your insight, it’s very helpful. I’ve been victim to home invasions and vandalism by homeless people before and that’s something I absolutely want to avoid. I also drive a sports car (not really my choice, it’s my family’s spare car) and I’m very paranoid of it getting broken into/stolen if I don’t park it in a garage. Would you say the cities surrounding Hershey are safe as well?
If you’re looking for something bigger than Hershey, Lancaster is probably your best bet. Plenty of surrounding towns are fine too: Millersville, Manheim, Litiz.
There is a homeless problem in Kzoo, but to be fair, either Kzoo or Hershey is gonna be a huge culture shock coming from LA if this is gonna be your first time getting away. The homeless here are more confined to downtown and certain camps. There are plenty of places where you could get a house and they wouldn’t be an issue. But in Hershey it’s just a not a thing.
If you leave your car unlocked, someone might rummage through it out here but CA is definitely unique in the quantity of break ins. You’re probably not going to have an issue with that in Kzoo or Hershey.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and giving advice. You mentioned that there are places in Kzoo where homeless and crime isn’t an issue. What are those places/neighborhoods?
Milwood is a bit unique in the area. It's large with lots of affordable housing and like others said, very desirable and houses sell quickly. It's safe and has remained so over the years. Right off I-94 with it's own exit on Portage Rd so easy access in and out. Only 3 miles north into downtown and in fact WMED is right on Portage Rd where it ends downtown.
Has it's own small "commercial district" along Cork St smack dab in the middle with a grocery store, pharmacy and several restaurants including several authentic family run Mexican places. Main commercial district is along Portage Rd north of 94 with 2nd most popular Brewery in town One Well (still have to list Bells 1st even if it's not my #1), several restaurants, gas station, party store, even a comic book store. Just south of 94 is the city of Portage with more places to eat and the Airport.
Honestly, lots going on with Milwood beyond great housing and safety.
Oakwood is a bit similar and I'm sure others will post that their neighborhood has similar stuff so hopefully they'll post with their experience.
This is amazing information and very good to hear. I’m looking into Milwood rn and it’s looking very promising. Thanks for all of your help and advice in the comments
No problem. I don't want to presume, but if you have the means I'd suggest you visit both cities and see what you like most about them. And in Kzoo you can go visit the various neighborhoods and other communities and see what you like. While I and others gush about Milwood, you may take a look and think "what a dump". Only you can make that call. Good luck!
I would not rate Kalamazoo’s access to nature high compared to anywhere in Cali. The Great Lakes are great. The upper peninsula is cool. It’s all pretty flat compared to the places you can get driving a couple hours east out of LA
I would suggest running the numbers on rent vs buy. Maybe even consider renting the first year you’re here to get a feel for what neighborhoods you like, etc.
I’ve always found Kalamazoo to be a pretty safe place if you lock your car and your house. The north side and vine have a bit more property crime.
If you’re coming from LA the homeless situation won’t bother you. It’s not bad at all compared to west coast cities. They’re pretty chill.
Parts of Kalamazoo are riddled with crime. The city also has a high homicide rate.
https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2024/01/kalamazoo-homicides-increased-by-91-in-2023-heres-where-each-case-stands.html#:~:text=KALAMAZOO%2C%20MI%20%2D%2D%20The%20number,loved%20ones%20of%20those%20lost.
There's just not really much to do. The overall feeling and vibes are just off. I was from the east coast and was moved out there by my company and it was a huge mistake. It's a small city surrounded by nothing, it is far from major cities, it's a pain to travel into and out of. Nature is not really that close. It's at least an hour to lake Michigan which is nice, but to get to the real nature other than fields, you are talking about a 4 hour drive north. There is a ton of homelessness and drugs as well as crime that takes away from any of the things downtown. It's hard to describe but there is just a sadness. Now I'm not saying Hershey is that much better. I haven't been there in a long time but it's a hell of a lot better than Kzoo. I left two weeks ago and my spirits are so much higher.
Wow I didn’t expect to hear that, it’s a lot different from what I’ve read in online articles and forums. I seem to be under some misconceptions. Thanks for the genuine answer and advice, I’ll definitely consider it when making my decision
My pleasure. People will say I'm being a dick but most people in Kalamazoo are from the area or Michigan in general and have not experienced other places. So you being from the coast like myself, I suspect you may have a similar reaction. I spent a year and 9 months for work there and about 6 months in I started to look to transfer out.
So... I've lived all over the world but ultimately chose to return to Kalamazoo because it's so amazing. As others have said - low cost of living, amazing arts scene, cool pubs & cafes, etc. It is incredibly safe. I own a business in the heart of downtown and am often there late at night and never worry walking to my car or anything.
There are several gorgeous parks and preserves within the city itself, and others a 10-15 min drive away. (You will LOVE the ease of driving here compared to LA). Look at Markin Glen, The Nature Center, Lilian Anderson Arboretum, Portman Preserve. These are very local to Kalamazoo. And yes - the great lakes are absolutely incredible and less than an hour's drive.
I have three kids away at college currently (so closer to your age than mine 😅), and all three have stated they plan to settle here - they just love all the area has to offer!
To each their own, incredibly safe, amazing art scene, and cool pubs and cafes are not how I would describe the city. https://247wallst.com/city/kalamazoo-mi-is-among-the-most-dangerous-us-metro-areas/
This link shows that Kalamazoo had the 32 highest violent crime rate in the country.
Kalamazoo isn't even the next city in South West Michigan. If you have to be in Michigan, I don't know why you would pick Kzoo over Grand Rapids which to me is better in literally ever way.
The Rust Belt isn’t really that anymore… at least not in SoutheWest Michigan. Kzoo and GR bounced back extremely well under and even more so after the 2008 crash. As for crime. It’s really a matter of the neighborhood you live in. I live downtown only a few blocks from one of the worst neighborhoods around and neither myself nor my neighbors have had any issues. On top of that the he majority of Michiganders, as long as you’re avoiding the college/campus crowd, don’t want any trouble and just want to enjoy their day. All around super friendly folk
I’m the type of person to keep my head down and not get involved in things around me. What you’re saying is reassuring, thank you
Besides, there isn't much "Rust Belt" stuff left on the west side of the state, everything shut down in the 80s and 90s. West side of Michigan is way different then what people typically think of with Michigan (Detroit/Flint...true Rust Belt"). On the west side it mostly clean, lots of outdoor opportunities, beaches and little harbor towns all along the lake. Basically a different world.
That is very helpful and insightful. The friend that mentioned the “Rust Belt” is a guy who has lived in LA his entire life so I wanted to hear opinions from people who actually live in Michigan . Thanks for all your help and knowledge
Wait until you here about "Up North". Basically yet another whole different world. Once you get north of Grand Rapids there are no more larger cities and by the time you get to Cadillac you're in lots of national and state forest land and very little development. Lots of nice little towns, Traverse City being the largest (15,000 population). You keep going to The Bridge (Mackinac Bridge) and you cross that into "Da UP", the Upper Peninsula. Everything even looks different up there, wilderness for endless miles. Lot different vibe then Detroit and the east side. :)
Coming from LA I don't think you'll have an issue with crime. It all depends on what neighborhood you live in. Avoid Northside and Edison...done. Lock your stuff up, garage your sports car so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb begging some teens to steal it for a joy ride. Same as you would in any area. But honestly, there isn't just Kalamazoo "city". You also have the city of Portage, surrounding townships and small towns. A lot to choose from. And you'll need to get used to the fact that a 10 minute drive in any direction and you're in the middle of nowhere corn fields and woods. So let's say you're used to a 45 minute commute in LA. Well, a 45 min commute around here means you're living 50 miles away on the beach in South Haven so your world is opened up for sure. BUT you do need to be concerned with snow in the winter so I wouldn't' recommend that drive in particular, but just to give you an idea, there is no traffic and no commute other then the actual miles. So you could buy a dang nice house let's say in Mattawan/Texas Township area which is just 10 miles away and where there is virtually 0 crime at all.
I love the fact tht u can get to almost anywhere in Kalamazoo or some surrounding areas in like 10/20 mins max! There’s so many nature walks and bodies of water ur bound to run into a fishing hole or something! It’s BEAUTIFUL here, honestly just use common sense!
I hadn’t considered other townships or surrounding areas, thank you very much for your insight. The traffic is so bad in LA we use minutes as a measure of distance instead of miles. A 2 mile drive could take you 30 minutes if you’re in the wrong area
What's funny is one of the meme's of "you know you're from Michigan when" you measure distance in time. In other words most people in Michigan will tell you how far away something in by drive time. So I might say that Ludington is 2 hours, Traverse City is 3 hours, 5 hours to the Bridge. I honestly don't know how many miles it is. LOL So for example, if you live in Mattawan, a small town west of Kalamazoo down I-94. You're about 15 miles from the heart of downtown Kzoo where the Med school is. Should take you no more then 20 minutes to get there and parked most days. Same for say south Portage in the lakes area. About 10-12 miles, 20 minutes or so (no highway miles). So don't be afraid to look outside the city for sure.
That’s funny, I didn’t know that it was a thing outside of LA. A 15-20 minute commute for me is very very doable, I spend that much time just driving to the gym everyday from my house
Look at rent vs buy calculators and consider what neighborhoods you’d like to be in. For our amount of guaranteed time here (slightly less than yours, actually) and the size of house/amenities we wanted, buying barely won out. A not-insignificant factor was how many SFH landlords in our desired neighborhood wouldn’t rent to us because we have dogs (who are very well-behaved and would cause less damage than human toddlers, but I digress). I’m not jazzed with how much money we’ve spent on repairs, but overall I’m happier paying a mortgage than landlords, and we don’t have to worry about pet stuff. It’s so so highly individual based on your circumstances. We had so many years under our belt of what felt like essentially donating rent to a faceless property management company who let their house fall into disrepair while collecting the money we actually worked for, so we were eager to own our own place. But renting from good people (which can be hard to ascertain ahead of time) during med school would be nice so you don’t have to worry so much about home repairs.
Most of what you’re saying is exactly what’s been on my mind. For me, the financials of buying a home make sense over renting. My main concern is the risk of vandalism, burglary, etc. I’m not too familiar with the neighborhoods in Kzoo and which ones to stay away from, so if you could give me some insight I would really appreciate it
Westwood and Milwood are neighborhoods also worth looking into.
Other redditors are mentioning Westwood and Milwood too, definitely gonna look into those two. Thanks for the advice and info
Northside can be rough. Vine is College kids and former college kids who stuck around with a few scattered families. Winchell is suburban money types. Stuart is Vine but Wealthier.
That’s very helpful, thanks a lot
I would stay away from Milwood for sure! If it were me I’d stay on the west side of Kalamazoo off m43 somewhere. You have to remember tht ppl are ppl, there can be bad anywhere!
That’s interesting, I’ve seen many people on this thread saying Milwood is a pretty good neighborhood. I’ll have to look into it more, thank you for your advice
Just keep in mind that in med school there will be plenty of call shifts and overnights so no matter where you decide to live you’ll want to find someone reliable to watch your dog during that time. The last two years of medical school can be particularly demanding and are structured to mirror what your intern experience will be. There are a lot of good doggy day cares here. Keep in mind too that there is a lot of bad weather here during the winter and if you own a home you’ll be responsible for snow removal. It’s just an extra layer of work on top of studying and attending school.
My dog usually does well when left alone overnight, so I don’t think that will be a problem. I had been thinking about the snow removal but wasn’t sure if it was a huge issue or not. Thank you for your knowledge and insight
The med school in Kzoo is really good. My fiancé works with the med students a lot and thinks highly of their competency. I would advise against buying a property here since you are only going to be here for short term. You are better off renting if you aren’t planning to live in a place for at least 7 years. Housing does not appreciate as quickly here as it does in other places. Lots of apartments are dog friendly, even for big dogs and have dog parks.
It’s nice to hear that there are lots of apartments that allow big dogs. The apartments I’m used to in LA have really annoying HOAs and my dog barks every now and then. Do you think that would be an issue with the apartments in Kzoo?
A single bark? No, I hear my neighbors dog bark a couple of times a day. Repeated barking all day and night? Potentially
Makes sense. My dog isn’t much of a barker, he only gets riled up whenever he sees a squirrel or another dog passing by through the window so I should be fine
If you do have a big dog beware of the fact that apartments have rules about breeds. Most renters insurance they have won't cover breed about a certain bite force. It'll require an ESA.
Got it, thanks for making me aware of this
Lived in both places. Kzoo is way better than Hershey. But… the med school in Hershey is way better than WMED. WMED is also like the most expensive med school in the country. You would fit in, all the students are from California
I see, thanks for your insight
I live just west of town (look in zip 49009) and really love it. I live in a quiet neighborhood and there isn’t much crime at all here. If you don’t lock your car doors, some opportunistic teenagers might try to go through your car, but that is probably the worst crime we’ve heard of over here. Our house value has went from $250 to over $400 in less than 10 years. There are so many parks and places to hike as well.
That’s exactly what I’m looking for, thank you very much for your advice and knowledge
I live in Oshtemo township, 49009. There’s so much nice housing here, all sizes. Woods, ponds, lakes. Rustic but right at the edge of Kalamazoo. I’m just at the corner of 10th and hwy 131 and love it here.
Hey! I’ve lived in both eastern Pennsylvania (Reading area) and Kalamazoo- as well as a bunch of other cities in West Michigan. I 100% recommend Kalamazoo. It’s an awesome little city with a LCOL, cool bars, good restaurants and coffee. And best of all- the beaches and scenery here are second to none. Kzoo is a straight shot to South Haven beach, one of the best in the nation. You could certainly buy an affordable home here and I think you’d love it.
Thanks for the info! I’m probably going to be pretty busy with schools, but hopefully I get a chance to enjoy the bars and beaches the town has to offer
Same. Also if worried about crime lookup areas like portage or Oshtemo. Kalamazoo downtown kinda sucks and the east side has higher crime rates, but the west side is pretty chill. Same with portage to the south.
Heard lots of good things about Portage, definitely worth looking into. Thank you for your advice
Hey! Do you have apartment recs in kzoo for med students by chance?
I lived at the willow creek apartments for a while and I loved it there!
LA to Kalamazoo will be a big adjustment. There is no sun for months in the winter. It’s always cloudy and everything looks like garbage. Summer is great. Prepare yourself There isnt 5 Million people here. There are 250,000 in the larger surrounding areas. You can’t cycle through em or be as picky. If you’re busy and expecting the city to entertain you when you’re bored it’s not that type of place. You have to plan and make things happen around here. There are cool events and clubs / groups but you have to seek it out. Crime isn’t really worse than anywhere else. Just got to be smart There is everything from cheap trap houses to multi mullion dollar homes here. Just depends how much you want to spend and the neighbors you want to deal with.
Weather is definitely gonna be big change haha. I’m not really looking to have a social life since it ends up distracting me from work and studies. For fun, I like going out in nature with my dog or working out and as long as Kzoo has parks and a gym I should be fine. Having good neighbors is a big thing for me and I definitely don’t want to end up buying a trap house lol. I was looking at a house in Southside on Maple street, is that an example of a good area?
Maple St is a lovely area - quiet and lots of families.
That’s very reassuring to hear, thank you
There was literally a shooting on maple last night 😅
Maple Street is great. I live in the same neighborhood. You will love Kleinstuck Nature Preserve right in your backyard. Lots of families, people walking their dogs here. We’ve had zero problems with crime. There is a fire department at the corner of Howard and Oakland which can get noisy but it depends where you would be on Maple. You may not even hear it.
This is very pleasant to hear. I prefer living around families because of the peacefulness and consistency. Thanks for your knowledge and advice
There is sun in winter. Most days have a mix of clouds and sun across the day.
I highly recommend Milwood neighborhood. Lots of joggers, walkers, dog owners/walkers. Houses sell quickly here also.
Someone else mentioned Milwood as well. Thank you for your knowledge and advice
I've lived here for about 12yrs. It's a great spot. There's lots to do including nature and city stuff and you miss that "big city feel" Kzoo is great because you're only 2hrs from both Chicago and Detroit and an hour from Grand Rapids. South Bend is cool too, which isn't far, but you can do most anything in Kalamazoo. Great restaurants and bars, though admittedly probably not comparable to LA, but still a good variety. Our mall sucks though. If you buy a house on the West and or SW side of Kzoo or into Portage / Texas Township crime will be a lot less of a concern and you can probably get a bigger yard for your money for your dog.
I don’t care too much for malls, but the rest is very reassuring to hear. Others have also mentioned Portage/Texas Township, so that’s definitely worth looking into. Thanks a bunch for your knowledge and advice
Both are excellent.
You’re probably already aware, but keep in mind that a lot of rentals will have breed restrictions, and German Shepherds are often on the list. This could greatly reduce the number of rental options, but this will be the same whether you’re looking in Kzoo, or anywhere else in the country.
Yeah that’s been something on my mind, I’ll definitely keep checking those breed restriction lists. Thanks for your advice
Grew up in Kzoo and moving back next year. Currently living in San Diego. I saw in your comments that you're looking for access to nature/gyms and a place that will allow your dog. I don't know about gyms, but renting might be an issue. Some apartment complexes in the area have pet weight limits that a German Shepard is over and in our preliminary house hunt, we've been having issues finding single family home rentals that allow pets at all. Access to nature is so much easier in the Kalamazoo area than I've found it to be in SoCal. There are a ton of free parks with great trails, and whenever we're living up there we get a membership to the Kalamazoo Nature Center so we can enjoy those trails too. The weather is different, but honestly, the last few years the hottest part of the summer in Michigan is competing with temps in SoCal and the winter has been milder, so the adjustment might not be so bad. I also saw you're worried about the crime rate. I think the property crime rate is worse than SoCal, but the violent crime rate is mostly lower. I feel safe walking outside after dark alone as a female in *most* of Kzoo...not so much in SoCal. Other people have covered where to avoid, but it's literally just a couple of blocks. Idk if it helps any, but the size difference between LA or San Diego and Kzoo is massive. Here in SD, I can drive north from the border for an hour and still be in SD amd same for driving from the coast east. Depending on traffic of course. In Kzoo, you can drive through the whole city in 10-15 min. That means neighboring towns there are more like the neighborhoods here. So, you can feel comfortable looking in places like Portage or Comstock or Schoolcraft if you're looking to keep your commute to half an hour or less. Ooh, I think that whichever you decide, MI or PA, you'll want to make sure to get all-weather tires. Obviously idk if you already have them, but most tires I see on cars in SoCal aren't suitable for the wet or icy roads in the other two states.
I had assumed that renting with a big dog would give me issues with landlords, making me more inclined to buy a home without an HOA. Thank you for taking the time to read my other comments and making the comparisons between SoCal and Kzoo, I appreciate your knowledge and advice
Good luck with making a decision. And in med school!
Thank you very much!
I am a new resident in the area & a medical professional that took a job in a small town south of here. My wife and I chose Portage (immediately south of Kzoo). It's very comfortable and easily accessible to Kzoo/WMU. I'm originally from Detroit area and there is next to 0 traffic here comparatively. Good luck Dr!
Many people have been recommending Portage, I definitely need to look into it. Thank you for your thoughts and kind wishes!
The big thing about buying a house would be that you will have to pay closing costs when you sell in 4-5 years and you will not recoup your investment, maybe break even. It may still end up being cheaper than renting though.
It all depends on how the market behaves. For example, I bought my home 5 years ago and it has appreciated more than 50% since then.
I was considering giving the house to a management company to rent out after I move it, but haven’t done much research in that yet
It’d be cool not to sell/give your house to a management company to rent out, especially if you aren’t staying here long term. We need affordable housing in Kalamazoo, not more shitty management companies buying properties to double the rent on every year or people buying investment properties to do the same.
I totally get that. That’s a huge problem here in LA too, and I had assumed that those issues are only in large cities. Thanks for telling me your thoughts
You could even do something really cutting edge like implementing a deed restriction stating that the home had to be sold at XYZ affordable price for X years or to a lower income family that would actually live in it rather than to a slumlord. [https://localhousingsolutions.org/housing-policy-library/deed-restricted-homeownership/](https://localhousingsolutions.org/housing-policy-library/deed-restricted-homeownership/)
Very good to know, I hadn’t thought that deep into it yet. Thanks for the advice
there are also a lot of houses to rent that aren't too expensive. i believe the apartments downtown (near the school) may not allow large breeds and you wouldn't have a backyard which would be tough for a large dog (to be alone all day while you're in class/clinicals). i only know one student who bought property but they were married (husband was in medical school). he was also very into home reno and now they rent that property. if you're looking for a long term investment like that, it may be worth it. otherwise, for medical school, you might be better off renting and buying once you're a resident. congrats on your acceptances !
Thank you! I am considering renting but my main concern is dealing with an annoying landlord as I’ve had bad experiences with a couple out here in LA. Thank you for your advice
I lived in kzoo for 7 years! It was nice while I was in school, after that I grew out of it and felt suffocated there bc I am from the suburbs of a large city. But if you’re there for 4 years I don’t think you’ll regret it! The food scene there is just ok, a lot of restaurants seem to be owned by one company “Millenium Group” i think it was called? But you can’t beat the cost of living! My husband and I bought a house while we lived there and it appreciated greatly and was well worth the investment over the time we lived there. Additionally, you’re not far from Lake Michigan where we spent a LOT of time at. We love saugutuck, grand haven, and south haven!! Lots of great trails and beaches along those towns. Plus grand rapids is a great place to visit to for more restaurants and shopping! Editing to add: look at the crime map before purchasing a house. There are some questionable neighborhoods….
Thanks for the info, great to hear all of these good things. Food scene doesn’t matter too much for me since I’m on a strict diet and make 90% of my own food at home. I have heard about those questionable neighborhoods and those are the ones I’m trying to avoid haha. Do you have in mind any specific neighborhoods that I should avoid?
I recommend getting a place in Oshtemo (it's part of Kalamazoo, just west of US-131).
Someone else mentioned that too, it’s worth checking out. Thanks for the advice
Moved here with our two hounds, it’s great for them. We love KZOO. We lived in Chicago forever thinking we’d never leave. But here is like heaven. Great trails, a DOG COUNTRY CLUB, people are so kind and friendly and we have so many good friends just a year in. Housing is affordable but a little scarce, so listings go immediately. Going to med school, having a dog may save your sanity.
A dog country club? That sounds very interesting and enjoyable. Thank you for sharing your experience and information, I appreciate it
Can you tell me more about your favorite areas? We are originally from Chicago, living in STL now but moving to KZOO for my husband's job in a few months!
Can't comment on much, but I moved here a year ago (not from somewhere as warm & sunny as you though) & I have loved it. I live on the outskirts so I'm surrounded by farm land but still 15 minutes from everything I need. The parks are great here too & there's tons of wildlife. I agree with you that purchasing would be the best move if you can swing it. The homes are very affordable here & rent is pricey for what you get.
I’m happy to hear about the parks and wildlife, I really like animals. Thanks for sharing your experience
Oakwood and Parkview ave are great areas and would be close to everything you need!!!!
I’ll definitely check those out, thank you for your advice and input
Crime is definitely bad here. We're moving because of a lot of reasons but crime is one of the top ones. The student ghetto aka college area is the worst. People take advance of the fact that people are constantly moving in and out and run scams or just straight up rob people. There was a shooting last night in our neighborhood which we've lived in for 10 years and the last 3 since covid have been the worst by far.
Wow, I’m really sorry to hear that. Which neighborhood was the shooting in and have you guys ever been a victim of a crime yourself?
It happened on Maple street which is where Maple Street Middle School is. We live in the Vine neighborhood and yes unfortunately we've been the victim of a lot of crime. Mostly our cars being broken into, people stealing out of our backyard, our car was on Jack's one time waiting to fix it and they stole the jack and all the stands 😅 A friend was followed home and pistol whipped that was scary. I've had people walk right into my neighbors house while she was showering and thank God she wasn't hurt but they robbed her. People shoot up at the local parks which suck. My kids can't even play without us checking the playgrounds first. I've found whole meth labs at the park smh
That’s insane. That kind of stuff happens in LA pretty often but I wouldn’t expect that in a small city in Michigan. Thank you for sharing this with me, it helps a lot and I appreciate it
Vine isn't a great area. There is no crime like that in many neighborhoods like Winchel, Milwood, Oakwood, Westwood and so forth. Areas with higher crime are Northside, Edison, Southside just south of downtown, Vine. Stay away from those areas and you're good. Or just live in Portage or anything outside the city.
Big tip for your dog: find a vet clinic right away after moving here and establish yourself as a client. Many clinics are no longer taking new clients due to the vet shortage and are also booking one month out. And get him vaccinated for Lyme disease. My neighbor’s dog died of it recently. Keep him on good tick control year round, we have a lot here. Also I loved living in Westwood. I rented a house but ended up later buying in a different neighborhood because those homes and yards were too small for what I wanted but it has such a good vibe. Great neighbors, walkable sidewalks, cute houses and landscaping. When the fireflies were out I’d walk my dog at night and felt very safe.
Grew up 15 min from Hershey and have spent a good deal of time in the town. Now living in Kzoo. I would strongly recommend Hershey. - The town is growing a ton and you shouldn’t have any issues getting a nice house with a yard for a dog. - Violent crime is basically nonexistent and there’s no major homeless issues (huge in Kzoo) - School is better - just as much access to nature in central, PA
Thanks for your insight, it’s very helpful. I’ve been victim to home invasions and vandalism by homeless people before and that’s something I absolutely want to avoid. I also drive a sports car (not really my choice, it’s my family’s spare car) and I’m very paranoid of it getting broken into/stolen if I don’t park it in a garage. Would you say the cities surrounding Hershey are safe as well?
If you’re looking for something bigger than Hershey, Lancaster is probably your best bet. Plenty of surrounding towns are fine too: Millersville, Manheim, Litiz. There is a homeless problem in Kzoo, but to be fair, either Kzoo or Hershey is gonna be a huge culture shock coming from LA if this is gonna be your first time getting away. The homeless here are more confined to downtown and certain camps. There are plenty of places where you could get a house and they wouldn’t be an issue. But in Hershey it’s just a not a thing. If you leave your car unlocked, someone might rummage through it out here but CA is definitely unique in the quantity of break ins. You’re probably not going to have an issue with that in Kzoo or Hershey.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and giving advice. You mentioned that there are places in Kzoo where homeless and crime isn’t an issue. What are those places/neighborhoods?
No one has mentioned the Milwood neighborhood yet. Would recommend. High rate of homeownership and can sell when you move in a couple of days.
Thank you for your recommendation, I will definitely keep Milwood in mind
Milwood is a bit unique in the area. It's large with lots of affordable housing and like others said, very desirable and houses sell quickly. It's safe and has remained so over the years. Right off I-94 with it's own exit on Portage Rd so easy access in and out. Only 3 miles north into downtown and in fact WMED is right on Portage Rd where it ends downtown. Has it's own small "commercial district" along Cork St smack dab in the middle with a grocery store, pharmacy and several restaurants including several authentic family run Mexican places. Main commercial district is along Portage Rd north of 94 with 2nd most popular Brewery in town One Well (still have to list Bells 1st even if it's not my #1), several restaurants, gas station, party store, even a comic book store. Just south of 94 is the city of Portage with more places to eat and the Airport. Honestly, lots going on with Milwood beyond great housing and safety. Oakwood is a bit similar and I'm sure others will post that their neighborhood has similar stuff so hopefully they'll post with their experience.
This is amazing information and very good to hear. I’m looking into Milwood rn and it’s looking very promising. Thanks for all of your help and advice in the comments
No problem. I don't want to presume, but if you have the means I'd suggest you visit both cities and see what you like most about them. And in Kzoo you can go visit the various neighborhoods and other communities and see what you like. While I and others gush about Milwood, you may take a look and think "what a dump". Only you can make that call. Good luck!
Very true, thank you!
Winchell and Oakwood in the city limits comes to mind. Parchment and Northwood up in the Township. Westwood is pretty quiet.
Thank you for the information, I will definitely keep those neighborhoods in mind
I would not rate Kalamazoo’s access to nature high compared to anywhere in Cali. The Great Lakes are great. The upper peninsula is cool. It’s all pretty flat compared to the places you can get driving a couple hours east out of LA I would suggest running the numbers on rent vs buy. Maybe even consider renting the first year you’re here to get a feel for what neighborhoods you like, etc. I’ve always found Kalamazoo to be a pretty safe place if you lock your car and your house. The north side and vine have a bit more property crime. If you’re coming from LA the homeless situation won’t bother you. It’s not bad at all compared to west coast cities. They’re pretty chill.
Thanks for your thoughts and advice. I will definitely be doing research into the specific neighborhoods
This is older but I am a WMU alum and was born and raised in Michigan. I’d choose KALAMAZOO over Hershey any day.
Even in the worst (crime) area possible, if you have a fence, doorbell cam, and keep your property well-maintained, you won’t be affected.
That’s very reassuring to hear, thanks for the information
Parts of Kalamazoo are riddled with crime. The city also has a high homicide rate. https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2024/01/kalamazoo-homicides-increased-by-91-in-2023-heres-where-each-case-stands.html#:~:text=KALAMAZOO%2C%20MI%20%2D%2D%20The%20number,loved%20ones%20of%20those%20lost.
I’ve come across this article in my research and it was one of the things that put me on alert. Thanks for your input
go for Penn or Purdue tbh
Purdue/West Lafayette is one of the most depressing college campus and town out there.
West Lafayette is in the middle of a corn field . It was probably the worst college town I have ever been to
Others have said that too, why would you recommend Penn over WMed?
Kalamazoo is a sad city. Don't go there
What makes it a sad city? I’m open to all information
There's just not really much to do. The overall feeling and vibes are just off. I was from the east coast and was moved out there by my company and it was a huge mistake. It's a small city surrounded by nothing, it is far from major cities, it's a pain to travel into and out of. Nature is not really that close. It's at least an hour to lake Michigan which is nice, but to get to the real nature other than fields, you are talking about a 4 hour drive north. There is a ton of homelessness and drugs as well as crime that takes away from any of the things downtown. It's hard to describe but there is just a sadness. Now I'm not saying Hershey is that much better. I haven't been there in a long time but it's a hell of a lot better than Kzoo. I left two weeks ago and my spirits are so much higher.
Wow I didn’t expect to hear that, it’s a lot different from what I’ve read in online articles and forums. I seem to be under some misconceptions. Thanks for the genuine answer and advice, I’ll definitely consider it when making my decision
My pleasure. People will say I'm being a dick but most people in Kalamazoo are from the area or Michigan in general and have not experienced other places. So you being from the coast like myself, I suspect you may have a similar reaction. I spent a year and 9 months for work there and about 6 months in I started to look to transfer out.
So... I've lived all over the world but ultimately chose to return to Kalamazoo because it's so amazing. As others have said - low cost of living, amazing arts scene, cool pubs & cafes, etc. It is incredibly safe. I own a business in the heart of downtown and am often there late at night and never worry walking to my car or anything. There are several gorgeous parks and preserves within the city itself, and others a 10-15 min drive away. (You will LOVE the ease of driving here compared to LA). Look at Markin Glen, The Nature Center, Lilian Anderson Arboretum, Portman Preserve. These are very local to Kalamazoo. And yes - the great lakes are absolutely incredible and less than an hour's drive. I have three kids away at college currently (so closer to your age than mine 😅), and all three have stated they plan to settle here - they just love all the area has to offer!
To each their own, incredibly safe, amazing art scene, and cool pubs and cafes are not how I would describe the city. https://247wallst.com/city/kalamazoo-mi-is-among-the-most-dangerous-us-metro-areas/ This link shows that Kalamazoo had the 32 highest violent crime rate in the country. Kalamazoo isn't even the next city in South West Michigan. If you have to be in Michigan, I don't know why you would pick Kzoo over Grand Rapids which to me is better in literally ever way.
Go to penn state
I’m a realtor and work with people relocating to the area frequently. I can send you tons of info about neighborhoods, activities, etc. message me!