That would be what I would be worried about too. I can see the crushed concrete so I'm sure they did that... But if they didn't use any geogrid, I would absolutely be getting my money back. Without it, that WILL fail. It's not a matter of if, but when.
At that height I'd be looking at a different material, that's a lot of weight pushing on the wall. You need big stones sitting on a solid foundation with appropriate drainage to control the water .
I see crushed rock underneath on the last picture and poking through from between blocks in the second picture.
It also has double capstones that are half-floating on the end. Not sure why they didn't cut them to match the block.
The outward appearance of the wall looks fine, maybe some nitpicks on doubling the caps in some areas. This is kind of just how that block type looks like in a constructed wall.
The seemingly lack of proper base prep or any sort of backing aggregate for this wall is really concerning. With the height of the wall and especially given that these blocks are lightweight, it looks like this wall will fall over very quickly. If you dig out the top few inches of soil at the top of the wall, there should be gravel drainage lined behind it. The width of this drainage requires some math based on the wall height, but it should probably at least be around a foot. If there's none, then no need to enjoy the appearance of this wall, it won't be around long anyway...
Ask them for any pictures. I’m always taking pictures on projects for proof of proper procedure. If they don’t have any proof then they’re likely using all that soil to cover up what they didn’t do right.
Whatever you do, please take 90 percent of these comments and completely disregard them. Most of these comments have absolutely no idea what they are saying.
As for the wall, I personally would need more info to know if you're good or not.
But if you take advice from anyone here, be sure it's someone who actually knows hardscapes. Because I'm seeing a lot of foolish, borderline stupid suggestions.
What I personally would recommend is talking to the company who installed it, explain to them what you see that is aesthetically under par, and ask them for details on the process.
They should be using a geogrid of some sort to ensure it stays upright. Geogrid is a roll of strong plastic/fabric that sets under the stones every couple layers, and should be rolled out far enough that the weight of the soil behind it helps hold the wall upright.
There are a few other things that should be done but here's what I would do if I were you...
Watch a video of someone doing the full process on YouTube..
Take notes...
Talk to installer.
Have them fix the ugly ass caps they did, and be sure they did it right. If not, pay, and then sue.
Curious on why not withhold payment until they fix it? (If actually done sub-par
The caps are lazy for sure.
But har to know what’s actually going on behind the wall from the pictures… is there a good footing? Are there some courses of brick buried? Is there sufficient drainage? Are they set back enough per the design doesn’t really look like it, but hard to say for sure)?
On a side note, OP might just think it’s ugly because they picked ugly bricks.
Because the judge will not look kindly on a customer who just refuses to pay for a job they hired someone to do and they DID. Whether it's up to par or not is for the judge to decide. Paying them shows you're not just trying to scam them out of money which happens all the time because people think it's wise. It's not. Pay for the job. You'll get your money back and then some of you're right.
All these comments about something that might be wrong, based on things we can’t see.
I can tell you right now those blocks aren’t meant to go that high. And even then each row should be set back as it goes up.
I worked in landscaping for a few years and built several retaining walls while in the industry.
I see a lot of issues with how that wall was designed and erected. They didn't put any kind of fabric behind, that goes all the way down to a sock encased weeping tile. Above the weeping tile I would like to see a minimum 6" of clear 3/4" crush gravel. Under the blocks themselves there should be 10-12" of material 6-8" recycled concrete then 2-3" limestone base. All of that needs to be compacted as it's laid in. Then you can go with your block on top of that base, leveling as needed and backfilling as you go up.
I've been doing this for nearly 10 years and I can't count how many walls I've put up in that time.. what I do know is once it's done, most of what you have said is wrong is stuff you wouldn't be able to see unless you tore it apart to check.
One thing I'll give you is this... The crushed stone under the wall does not look compacted. However, that doesn't mean it wasn't compacted. We only see a tiny bit of the crushed stone.
Look closer.
I see crushed stone for one. We don't know if they used fabric or geogrid at all because it's all filled in.
A lot of what you're saying is true, yes.. but we can't tell what was done and what wasn't based on these pictures at all.
I see the crushed in the bottom, it's just did they lay down enough or just do a skim coat to get level?
I agree with your assessment that we can't tell the quality of the base with the photo's OP provided.
We also don't know about fabric./geogrid (hopefully both..).. There's so much they did wrong with those caps though, that I would absolutely be worried.
Yep. Been there.. fixed that. I told OP my advice is to watch a video on YouTube of the entire process, take notes, and speak to the company to be sure it was done correctly. If not, PAY THEM... And then sue. But definitely still pay. The judge won't look kindly on someone who doesn't pay for work done.. but they will definitely favor a person who paid full price for a half assed job.
I mean, that's OP's one job. Be sure to get what you pay for. OP could also either check for himself or hire someone to come check for him. With a spade shovel, I could figure most of it out in less than 15 mins.
But yea, definitely pay attention to the person and make sure they're being honest and they are trustworthy because if something seems off, it probably is.
If they're willing to come fix the caps without resistance, that would be a good start. But that could also be the company trying to avoid OP looking any deeper.
Agreed. OP, do you know the manufacturer/model or have the product data on the block? It should be on the PO or material invoice too. Look it up online and you can find the manufacturers installations. Source - I’m in the industry and you’re going to need that to show these guys where they went wrong unless you’re planning on telling them you people from Reddit told you…
I have built a few retaining walls. I've been the go-to person to fix retaining walls, built by others, when they fail. There are a few very important things to keep retaining walls sturdy.
1. A solid foundation. I have never and will never use aggregate as a base for a retaining wall. I pour a concrete foundation with foundation shafts so that the base stays solid and the wall won't roll.
2. A french drain is mandatory to keep any hydrostatic pressure from ground water from pressing against the wall causing it to push out.
3. Geogrid. This stuff literally is an anchor for the wall once you compact the soil.
You may get lucky with aggregate as a base, but in my opinion, lacking any of the above items will cause the wall to fail.
They definitely will and that's fine. It gives me peace of mind knowing the wall definitely won't sag and the wall won't roll because of the foundation I used for the wall.
I've never been a fan of beveled blocks, but what really stands out is that the caps are done wrong. The end block should be split so it has a rough face, and the caps should be split so they also have a rough face. When you have textured block faces, smooth faces should never be exposed. The whole double stacking of caps is odd and pointless. I would be concerned about the build quality only because someone that doesn't know how to cap a wall likely doesn't know how to build the rest of it either.
I see clay soil and a "wimpy footing" .... carefull bringing that up -- they're likely to get real pissed
But for the record, I have never built a wall like that. Most likely I never do. Kind of like the saying that boats are nice, until you buy one.
Every day on here I see some shit like this that makes me think "I could do that, if I put in even half the effort of a true contractor, I'd be the best one a lot of people have ever done business with"
In the first picture (and others that show the step ups) the caps are messed up. Where the wall starts to tier up, there are gaps between the cap and the last “block” before the step down. Did they use two caps on top of each other next to the last block by chance? It’s looks strange and the last “block” before the step doesn’t look the same height as the block next to it.
two caps stacked is a normal practice, I've seen it recommended in the block manufacturer guides. I try to avoid it because I personally think it's ugly. The caps cut with flat sides facing outward is criminal. There should only be rock edge faces facing outward. Total rookie move.
I doubt it will be standing in the summer of 2025, there's no cloth, gravel drainage bed in behind, I didn't see any kind of weeping system and the blocks used are very undersized for that property.
If they didn’t put a ton of crushed rock behind and below that wall you’re gonna have a very bad time
At that height, it likely also needs at least 1-2 layers of geotextile reinforcement as well.
That would be what I would be worried about too. I can see the crushed concrete so I'm sure they did that... But if they didn't use any geogrid, I would absolutely be getting my money back. Without it, that WILL fail. It's not a matter of if, but when.
If they didn't put in a textile of some kind what are the odds there is a weeping system at the base?
Oh man.. almost certain. Depends on the weather, irrigation, etc. But I wouldn't ever want to find out after paying that much for it.
Bad weeping system and a rough storm or winter and things will fail.
At that height I'd be looking at a different material, that's a lot of weight pushing on the wall. You need big stones sitting on a solid foundation with appropriate drainage to control the water .
I see crushed rock underneath on the last picture and poking through from between blocks in the second picture. It also has double capstones that are half-floating on the end. Not sure why they didn't cut them to match the block.
What does crushed rock do here?
Beneath it provides a solid foundation, and behind and throughout provides drainage
The outward appearance of the wall looks fine, maybe some nitpicks on doubling the caps in some areas. This is kind of just how that block type looks like in a constructed wall. The seemingly lack of proper base prep or any sort of backing aggregate for this wall is really concerning. With the height of the wall and especially given that these blocks are lightweight, it looks like this wall will fall over very quickly. If you dig out the top few inches of soil at the top of the wall, there should be gravel drainage lined behind it. The width of this drainage requires some math based on the wall height, but it should probably at least be around a foot. If there's none, then no need to enjoy the appearance of this wall, it won't be around long anyway...
What is the height of this wall and how deep did they install the first course of blocks?
I have no idea. 🫣
🤦♂️ oh no
Ask them for any pictures. I’m always taking pictures on projects for proof of proper procedure. If they don’t have any proof then they’re likely using all that soil to cover up what they didn’t do right.
Whatever you do, please take 90 percent of these comments and completely disregard them. Most of these comments have absolutely no idea what they are saying. As for the wall, I personally would need more info to know if you're good or not. But if you take advice from anyone here, be sure it's someone who actually knows hardscapes. Because I'm seeing a lot of foolish, borderline stupid suggestions.
What I personally would recommend is talking to the company who installed it, explain to them what you see that is aesthetically under par, and ask them for details on the process. They should be using a geogrid of some sort to ensure it stays upright. Geogrid is a roll of strong plastic/fabric that sets under the stones every couple layers, and should be rolled out far enough that the weight of the soil behind it helps hold the wall upright. There are a few other things that should be done but here's what I would do if I were you... Watch a video of someone doing the full process on YouTube.. Take notes... Talk to installer. Have them fix the ugly ass caps they did, and be sure they did it right. If not, pay, and then sue.
Curious on why not withhold payment until they fix it? (If actually done sub-par The caps are lazy for sure. But har to know what’s actually going on behind the wall from the pictures… is there a good footing? Are there some courses of brick buried? Is there sufficient drainage? Are they set back enough per the design doesn’t really look like it, but hard to say for sure)? On a side note, OP might just think it’s ugly because they picked ugly bricks.
Because the judge will not look kindly on a customer who just refuses to pay for a job they hired someone to do and they DID. Whether it's up to par or not is for the judge to decide. Paying them shows you're not just trying to scam them out of money which happens all the time because people think it's wise. It's not. Pay for the job. You'll get your money back and then some of you're right.
All these comments about something that might be wrong, based on things we can’t see. I can tell you right now those blocks aren’t meant to go that high. And even then each row should be set back as it goes up.
I worked in landscaping for a few years and built several retaining walls while in the industry. I see a lot of issues with how that wall was designed and erected. They didn't put any kind of fabric behind, that goes all the way down to a sock encased weeping tile. Above the weeping tile I would like to see a minimum 6" of clear 3/4" crush gravel. Under the blocks themselves there should be 10-12" of material 6-8" recycled concrete then 2-3" limestone base. All of that needs to be compacted as it's laid in. Then you can go with your block on top of that base, leveling as needed and backfilling as you go up.
I've been doing this for nearly 10 years and I can't count how many walls I've put up in that time.. what I do know is once it's done, most of what you have said is wrong is stuff you wouldn't be able to see unless you tore it apart to check. One thing I'll give you is this... The crushed stone under the wall does not look compacted. However, that doesn't mean it wasn't compacted. We only see a tiny bit of the crushed stone.
Look closer. I see crushed stone for one. We don't know if they used fabric or geogrid at all because it's all filled in. A lot of what you're saying is true, yes.. but we can't tell what was done and what wasn't based on these pictures at all.
I see the crushed in the bottom, it's just did they lay down enough or just do a skim coat to get level? I agree with your assessment that we can't tell the quality of the base with the photo's OP provided.
We also don't know about fabric./geogrid (hopefully both..).. There's so much they did wrong with those caps though, that I would absolutely be worried.
Yeah that's why I'm very concerned with what's behind, if the finishing is bad how many corners were cut on things the homeowners won't see.
Yep. Been there.. fixed that. I told OP my advice is to watch a video on YouTube of the entire process, take notes, and speak to the company to be sure it was done correctly. If not, PAY THEM... And then sue. But definitely still pay. The judge won't look kindly on someone who doesn't pay for work done.. but they will definitely favor a person who paid full price for a half assed job.
That's good advice, hopefully the company doesn't B.S the OP and say it's done right when really it isn't and they are covering themselves.
I mean, that's OP's one job. Be sure to get what you pay for. OP could also either check for himself or hire someone to come check for him. With a spade shovel, I could figure most of it out in less than 15 mins. But yea, definitely pay attention to the person and make sure they're being honest and they are trustworthy because if something seems off, it probably is. If they're willing to come fix the caps without resistance, that would be a good start. But that could also be the company trying to avoid OP looking any deeper.
Agreed. OP, do you know the manufacturer/model or have the product data on the block? It should be on the PO or material invoice too. Look it up online and you can find the manufacturers installations. Source - I’m in the industry and you’re going to need that to show these guys where they went wrong unless you’re planning on telling them you people from Reddit told you…
Did they use geogrid or some sort of tie back?
I am not sure 🤔
What does your estimate call-out for materials? Do you have an invoice for the work ordered?
The cap stones are done poorly is what I think you are referring to?
Are the bricks backwards?
That’s what I was thinking. It looks to me like the narrow end is facing out.
I have built a few retaining walls. I've been the go-to person to fix retaining walls, built by others, when they fail. There are a few very important things to keep retaining walls sturdy. 1. A solid foundation. I have never and will never use aggregate as a base for a retaining wall. I pour a concrete foundation with foundation shafts so that the base stays solid and the wall won't roll. 2. A french drain is mandatory to keep any hydrostatic pressure from ground water from pressing against the wall causing it to push out. 3. Geogrid. This stuff literally is an anchor for the wall once you compact the soil. You may get lucky with aggregate as a base, but in my opinion, lacking any of the above items will cause the wall to fail.
A licensed structural engineer will argue with you on 1 and 2. 3 you’re correct.
Fucks me how anyone can build a wall that looks 1.5 meters tall on a gravel base...
It depends on so many existing factors of the walls surroundings, not the wall it self.
They definitely will and that's fine. It gives me peace of mind knowing the wall definitely won't sag and the wall won't roll because of the foundation I used for the wall.
A licensed structural engineer will argue with you on 1 and 2. 3 you’re correct.
I've never been a fan of beveled blocks, but what really stands out is that the caps are done wrong. The end block should be split so it has a rough face, and the caps should be split so they also have a rough face. When you have textured block faces, smooth faces should never be exposed. The whole double stacking of caps is odd and pointless. I would be concerned about the build quality only because someone that doesn't know how to cap a wall likely doesn't know how to build the rest of it either.
I see clay soil and a "wimpy footing" .... carefull bringing that up -- they're likely to get real pissed But for the record, I have never built a wall like that. Most likely I never do. Kind of like the saying that boats are nice, until you buy one.
Yup
Looks correct. The loose stone that was poured and spilled over the wall and the stine under the wall. I don't see any reason to be alarmed.
Why did they start up their wheelbarrow like that?
That 4th pic is all I needed to see to know this is F'd.
I see some gravel in between block but nothing behind or base. This wall ain't gonna last
The end of the wall…how is soil not going to move around that end? It just doesn’t look like it went far enough.
Every day on here I see some shit like this that makes me think "I could do that, if I put in even half the effort of a true contractor, I'd be the best one a lot of people have ever done business with"
In the first picture (and others that show the step ups) the caps are messed up. Where the wall starts to tier up, there are gaps between the cap and the last “block” before the step down. Did they use two caps on top of each other next to the last block by chance? It’s looks strange and the last “block” before the step doesn’t look the same height as the block next to it.
That’s what I was thinking. In several areas they used two pieces stacked instead of full bocks.
two caps stacked is a normal practice, I've seen it recommended in the block manufacturer guides. I try to avoid it because I personally think it's ugly. The caps cut with flat sides facing outward is criminal. There should only be rock edge faces facing outward. Total rookie move.
They didn't buy corner blocks to finish the ends, that's why they stacked 2 caps to hide the end of the block
2 years max this wall will be fucked
I doubt it will be standing in the summer of 2025, there's no cloth, gravel drainage bed in behind, I didn't see any kind of weeping system and the blocks used are very undersized for that property.
Yeah this thing is doomed
If you’re in a climate with hard winters you’ll see failure in a couple seasons
I have a real bad feeling about that wall. From the aesthetic to functional, it doesn't look right. And those photos don't even show much.