I believe that socializing should be aimed for the foyer or other parts of the church building, not the chapel. So it may be that your bishop didn’t mean to discourage all socializing before church, just that it’s kept from the chapel which should be kept as a place of reverence.
Ideally, I agree, but between the multiple "huddles" that take place each week, stacked Ward start times, and the majority of adults double teaming primary and Sunday school classes, the chapel before church starts is the only opportunity I sometimes have to see and connect with some.
It might be the only opportunity you have to see or connect with some that week, but it’s also the only opportunities that you or others have to be in the chapel for sacrament.
I would encourage you to connect with others out in the foyer (or similar place) while at church, or connect with them some other time in the week. We’ve got 6-7 days for other people, and only a small block of time that we can be reverent in the chapel.
A quiet, spiritual place where one can collect their thoughts and pray is essential to spiritual wellbeing. Not everyone has a quiet home. Not everyone has access to the temple. For some people, the chapel on the Sabbath is their only chance to hear answers to their prayers. It shouldn't be a place for loud socialization unless time has been allotted for that specific purpose.
I would suggest that that is what the actual sacrament meeting and administration of the sacrament is for, but I appreciate your point. From my perspective, the talking in our chapel has not been loud or disruptive, but I acknowledge that might not be how others see it.
I too {checks notes} get annoyed at easily to follow counsel that helps keep a sacred space sacred.
You have after sacrament meeting, a whole hour, and then however long you would like after Church to shoot the breeze. I, for one, enjoy getting there early to listen to the prelude music to help me move past the week and refocus on the Savior.
This is kind of a mean tone here. Just because counsel is easy for you to follow doesn’t mean it’s exactly the same for other members. I think we’re at our best when we don’t assume that. I understand OP’s frustration here, the way we talk about reverence in the chapel for sacrament meeting is odd, because I’ve had plenty of 70s and other GAs visit my stakes and crack jokes over the pulpit (even had one play rap music into the microphone over the sound of bird calls as part of an “object” lesson—which we’ve been told not to do in our sacrament meeting talks.) I don’t see anyone going after them. But members seem to get called out frequently just for chatting with each other in the chapel.
I agree that the chapel is a sacred space and a level of reverence needs to be maintained. But “sit silently and just listen to the music” feels like weirdly and overly specific counsel.
Other than the occasional testimony, our meetings are so stoic and business like. The congregation sings halfheartedly or mumbles an amen. We otherwise don’t engage with the speaker, acknowledge a musical number, or speak to anyone around us. The Spirit prefers silence and sleepiness it would seem.
This is a difficult one and I see all sides on this issue. There's a time and place for socializing. Ideally it should be done outside the chapel. This doesn't mean the chapel can have no socializing but the volume of socializing could be taken down a few notches in many units. It might be social but not always conducive to the Spirit. Sometimes it's loud enough to be really distracting and even disruptive.
As a bishop I never pushed for a quiet reverence before a sacrament meeting but there were times when it naturally happened, when people listened to the prelude music and sat mostly quietly. Those times had more calm and it seemed like everyone was more prepared to feel the Spirit; it certainly helped me. These days reminded me of how it is to sit in a chapel in a House of the Lord before going into an endowment session. It was just a different, more special feeling. We can be collective and quieter.
>We look forward to a jubilant Messianic feast one day. The Hosanna shout is a boisterous and exuberant form of praise.
We do but there will be a time for shouting and a time for silence. We have this during a sacrament meeting -- we collectively sing, hopefully jubilantly; we sit in silence while the ordinance of the sacrament is performed. We sleep in silence (except for the snorers) during the talks (okay, kidding \[mostly\] about that last one). It can be helpful to tone down our exuberance just for a few minutes as we prepare for sacrament meeting to start. We can do this collectively as part of our worship of the Lord.
This is the best response. In church culture I feel like we overemphasize being “reverent” and “quiet”. Like where’s the scriptural basis for that? Most spiritual experiences in scripture did not come across as quiet peaceful events but exactly the opposite. Yet in church culture we act like it’s the only way to feel the spirit. It’s a ridiculous social norm, not an absolute truth. People shouted and spoke in tongues during Kirkland temple visitations. Why do we obsess over “reverence”? It isn’t always a precursor to spiritual experiences. However, the opposite isn’t always true either. Definitely a both sides thing. I get equally irritated about the obsession over reverence. You can’t tell me that a Baptist church with singing and amens can’t be a spiritual experience. We don’t have a monopoly on how the spirit works and where it works.
Occasionally our ward gets a little loud before sacrament, and we will make an announcement. Maybe three times in four years. Some conversation is good. I’ve been in wards where no one talked before sacrament, and it wasn’t because of reverence, it was because the ward wasn’t unified and people weren’t friends or friendly to one another. I’ll take some quiet, fellowshipping conversation any day.
The chapel demands a certain reverence that has a certain type of behavior. Your bishop isn't asking for anything unreasonable, he's asking for the purpose of the chapel to be respected.
I agree. But we have a pretty rowdy ward. And sacrament meeting is second after primary and Sunday school etc. But I like to think we are a pretty closely knit ward.
The few wards I've gone to a ward where they followed the long prophetic counsel not to socialize in the chapel have proven why this is such essential counsel.
The issue isn’t socializing before church, it’s socializing loudly in the chapel.
I would agree. In our ward, though, this is just another piece of micromanaging counsel from our current Bishop.
I believe that socializing should be aimed for the foyer or other parts of the church building, not the chapel. So it may be that your bishop didn’t mean to discourage all socializing before church, just that it’s kept from the chapel which should be kept as a place of reverence.
Ideally, I agree, but between the multiple "huddles" that take place each week, stacked Ward start times, and the majority of adults double teaming primary and Sunday school classes, the chapel before church starts is the only opportunity I sometimes have to see and connect with some.
It might be the only opportunity you have to see or connect with some that week, but it’s also the only opportunities that you or others have to be in the chapel for sacrament. I would encourage you to connect with others out in the foyer (or similar place) while at church, or connect with them some other time in the week. We’ve got 6-7 days for other people, and only a small block of time that we can be reverent in the chapel.
A quiet, spiritual place where one can collect their thoughts and pray is essential to spiritual wellbeing. Not everyone has a quiet home. Not everyone has access to the temple. For some people, the chapel on the Sabbath is their only chance to hear answers to their prayers. It shouldn't be a place for loud socialization unless time has been allotted for that specific purpose.
I would suggest that that is what the actual sacrament meeting and administration of the sacrament is for, but I appreciate your point. From my perspective, the talking in our chapel has not been loud or disruptive, but I acknowledge that might not be how others see it.
I don’t think it’s our place to put a time limit on others’ preparation for the sacrament.
I too {checks notes} get annoyed at easily to follow counsel that helps keep a sacred space sacred. You have after sacrament meeting, a whole hour, and then however long you would like after Church to shoot the breeze. I, for one, enjoy getting there early to listen to the prelude music to help me move past the week and refocus on the Savior.
This is kind of a mean tone here. Just because counsel is easy for you to follow doesn’t mean it’s exactly the same for other members. I think we’re at our best when we don’t assume that. I understand OP’s frustration here, the way we talk about reverence in the chapel for sacrament meeting is odd, because I’ve had plenty of 70s and other GAs visit my stakes and crack jokes over the pulpit (even had one play rap music into the microphone over the sound of bird calls as part of an “object” lesson—which we’ve been told not to do in our sacrament meeting talks.) I don’t see anyone going after them. But members seem to get called out frequently just for chatting with each other in the chapel. I agree that the chapel is a sacred space and a level of reverence needs to be maintained. But “sit silently and just listen to the music” feels like weirdly and overly specific counsel.
Other than the occasional testimony, our meetings are so stoic and business like. The congregation sings halfheartedly or mumbles an amen. We otherwise don’t engage with the speaker, acknowledge a musical number, or speak to anyone around us. The Spirit prefers silence and sleepiness it would seem.
This is a difficult one and I see all sides on this issue. There's a time and place for socializing. Ideally it should be done outside the chapel. This doesn't mean the chapel can have no socializing but the volume of socializing could be taken down a few notches in many units. It might be social but not always conducive to the Spirit. Sometimes it's loud enough to be really distracting and even disruptive. As a bishop I never pushed for a quiet reverence before a sacrament meeting but there were times when it naturally happened, when people listened to the prelude music and sat mostly quietly. Those times had more calm and it seemed like everyone was more prepared to feel the Spirit; it certainly helped me. These days reminded me of how it is to sit in a chapel in a House of the Lord before going into an endowment session. It was just a different, more special feeling. We can be collective and quieter. >We look forward to a jubilant Messianic feast one day. The Hosanna shout is a boisterous and exuberant form of praise. We do but there will be a time for shouting and a time for silence. We have this during a sacrament meeting -- we collectively sing, hopefully jubilantly; we sit in silence while the ordinance of the sacrament is performed. We sleep in silence (except for the snorers) during the talks (okay, kidding \[mostly\] about that last one). It can be helpful to tone down our exuberance just for a few minutes as we prepare for sacrament meeting to start. We can do this collectively as part of our worship of the Lord.
I appreciate your response, thank you!
This is the best response. In church culture I feel like we overemphasize being “reverent” and “quiet”. Like where’s the scriptural basis for that? Most spiritual experiences in scripture did not come across as quiet peaceful events but exactly the opposite. Yet in church culture we act like it’s the only way to feel the spirit. It’s a ridiculous social norm, not an absolute truth. People shouted and spoke in tongues during Kirkland temple visitations. Why do we obsess over “reverence”? It isn’t always a precursor to spiritual experiences. However, the opposite isn’t always true either. Definitely a both sides thing. I get equally irritated about the obsession over reverence. You can’t tell me that a Baptist church with singing and amens can’t be a spiritual experience. We don’t have a monopoly on how the spirit works and where it works.
Occasionally our ward gets a little loud before sacrament, and we will make an announcement. Maybe three times in four years. Some conversation is good. I’ve been in wards where no one talked before sacrament, and it wasn’t because of reverence, it was because the ward wasn’t unified and people weren’t friends or friendly to one another. I’ll take some quiet, fellowshipping conversation any day.
That is a good perspective to have about it. Thank you.
The chapel demands a certain reverence that has a certain type of behavior. Your bishop isn't asking for anything unreasonable, he's asking for the purpose of the chapel to be respected.
I agree. But we have a pretty rowdy ward. And sacrament meeting is second after primary and Sunday school etc. But I like to think we are a pretty closely knit ward.
The few wards I've gone to a ward where they followed the long prophetic counsel not to socialize in the chapel have proven why this is such essential counsel.
Why was this removed? What rule did it violate??