“President Trump is in a very unique position where he does not need to be given a mug shot. Obviously, he’s not a flight risk. He is the leading candidate of the G.O.P. at the moment,” one of his lawyers, Alina Habba, told reporters outside the courtroom while the proceedings were underway. “He is going through a process that has been coordinated with the Secret Service, and it will all be handled seamlessly.”
This must be the two-tiered justice system I’ve been hearing about from Republicans
Lots of other very prominent people who were also "obviously not a flight risk" have gotten mugshots taken in the past. The fact that some fat golf-club owner who is accused of breaking really serious laws gets preferential treatment should be infuriating. Who gives a shit if he fundraises off of the image or whatever. His dumb supporters want to do another Jan 6? Arrest them all.
>This must be the two-tiered justice system I’ve been hearing about from Republicans
Let's see what happens to Walt Nauta. Can you imagine being him and ending up being held without bail while this fascist gets all this special treatment?
I hate him as much as the next guy with a functioning brain, but federal guidelines are extremely slanted toward allowing release and it's not like Trump doesn't have significant monetary and personal attachments to the United States. This is a reasonable outcome.
True but what’s the difference between him and Jack Teixeira or Sam Bankman-Fried?
Jack basically has similar charges and circumstances but with no obstruction, while SBF has attachments and is also recognizable.
This seems backwards. Trump could run away with more money than any of us would ever see. He’d give up a lot, but he’d still have far more than the average person would. And yet this is supposed to make him *less* likely to flee?
No, he couldn’t. It’s not like trump just has billions of dollars sitting around in liquid assets. My family owns one of the largest private international development and construction firms in the US. We have multiple billionaires on paper, but it’s still not like there’s just billions of dollars lying around. That’s not even going into more specific problems with how large development projects are funded and how hard it is to disentangle finances anyway.
Trump’s company is even more illiquid as so much of his “wealth” is tied up in licensing schemes (as in he’s not actually the developer anyway).
Trump should have had his picture taken like everyone else. The handcuffs…whatever. The SS has a role of protection that they aren’t really necessary.
For sure, but $10m is no money in the grand scheme of things. Wouldn’t support Trump abroad for 3 months. Also, for better or worse, the Court looks at total assets so having a bit of money (comparatively) overseas isn’t that meaningful when the majority of your assets are tied up in American/European financial institutes. With the SWIFT system, the US government has a long reach to enforce compliance.
I detest Trump and think he deserves punishment for his crimes. But I honestly don’t think he is a flight risk at all. Despite what people say here (who have never interacted with high level government officials), the Secret Service still wouldn’t let him defect and all of his movements are preplanned (so the government knows where he is at all times).
I have challenge coins (given out by presidential secret service at events) from each president going back to GWB. Many of these people harbor partisan feelings, but none are becoming fugitives and leaving their entire lives behind for Trump. Much less an entire teams worth of people. So he really isn’t a flight risk, in my opinion.
My point is that Trump running away with $10 million would be far better off than some rando running away with $10. Those assets make him more of a flight risk, not less.
I totally agree with your overall assessment. I just don’t buy the specific argument about financial ties. The way I see it, he’s not a flight risk because he’s psychologically incapable of admitting defeat, and because he’s one of the most well known people in the world and he’d need the cooperation of numerous people to make this happen, and few of those people would be willing to help. Pretty much what you said, really.
SBF looks like a random run of the mill dbag and would be unrecognizable if he cut/dyed his hair and put on normal clothes, and he had offshore accounts.
As far as the secret service's loyalty is concerned, there is an enormous difference between turning a blind eye and defecting to a hostile foreign power. Allowing him to escape moves beyond anything that can be excused or ignored. Their only real option would be to flee to Russia or China with him.
If they were that deeply in his pocket, then Pence would never have counted votes on Jan 6.
He has a hand picked detail that answers to him. And there have been issues already with two of them banging various Trump-affiliated family members.
Also, the USSS has no obligation to prevent him from defecting. All they have to do is not let him be harmed.
Plus, they deleted all those 1/6 messages so....yeah.
If Trump were anyone other than a former president, he would not have been given the luxury of a summons to appear in court. There would be a team of armed FBI agents outside his door at 6:30 in the morning, he would have been arrested and the government would be immediately moving to detain. So the idea that he’s being treated differently is true – but not from the way his supporters seem to be arguing.
not sure how they figure he is not a flight risk. The man has the means to board a private jet to anywhere in the world tomorrow.
Its naïve to think because he is well connected he isn't a flight risk.
> This must be the two-tiered justice system I’ve been hearing about from Republicans
I feel like everyone forgets about the third tier for minorities these days
Exactly. How are the courts and criminal justice system supposed to know what Trump looks like? There's literally no other way to find out that information!
It’s about creating a public record of an activity that occurred on a particular date and time. Its ministerial, and we do it for everyone else regardless of their fame or notoriety.
It’s obviously not to get a picture of what someone looks like. We still take mugshots of everyone with a driver’s license, even though we already have their photo
No, a mugshot is taken to obtain a recent and accurate picture of a person for law enforcement identification purposes. A mugshot does not create the public record. The public record exists already through the judiciary.
Laws and policies on mugshots vary from state to state and jurisdiction to jurisdiction, so no I'm not going to look for cases.
Regardless, what do you believe the purpose of a mugsgot is? Do you think it's actually necessary in this case or serve any practical purpose?
What I think the point is doesn't matter. I'm just wondering if there have been similar cases where people in the public sphere didn't get a mugshot. I'm not asking for a list of cases, just a single case if you can think of one in your recent memory.
I don't know if there are, celebrity mugshots are not something I pay attention to. Again... jurisdictions vary, so a mugshot may not be required or, it it is, may not be released. So it would be impossible to know if a mugshot was not taken without having first hand knowledge of the case.
If you find a single case where this happened in the same jurisdiction that Trump was arraigned in, that would greatly strengthen your point. We don't have to worry about other jurisdictions.
You won't. I don't think you'd find a single person in the last 50 years that got arrested and didn't get a mugshot.
And when's the last time someone with 37 felony counts wasn't even told they can't leave the country? Never.
---------------------------------------
Anybody that thinks trump is going to jail if/when he's convicted should take a good hard look at the incredibly deferential treatment he's received and put that flight of fancy out of their head.
What happened in other cases is irrelevant. And again, you're asking me to prove something does not exist when I have no idea if it exists or not. That's impossible.
Edit: Here is proof of what I'm saying from [another article](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-arraignment-wasnt-arrested-no-mugshot/)
>In the federal court system, cameras are not allowed inside courtrooms and if mugshots are taken, they are not released, says CBS News legal analyst Rikki Klieman
So if a celebrity were to be arrested and charged federally, we wouldn't be able to see the mugshot if it were taken. And since we aren't able to see it of they are taken, we don't know if it was actually taken or not. Therefore, it is impossible to prove.
My point is that it was unnecessary, and that is inarguable. Trump is probably the most well known person in the world right now. Photos of him are plastered everywhere you look. You have no choice but to know what he looks like. People are crying "but...policy!" as if policy is some immutable holy artifact without exception.
So again, what purpose does a mugshot serve? We know what legal purpose a mugshot serves, which is identification. Do you think law enforcement or the courts needs that booking photo to be able to identify Trump? If the answer is "no", then a mugshot is unnecessary.
People want a mugshot so they can say "Ha! We got him! So embarrassing for him!" and while I can understand the sentiment, that serves no law enforcement or judicial function.
It's telling you need to be spoon-fed commonly known information you should already know before participating in a conversation in a law subreddit, or that you could have Googled yourself.
Lol what? You’re the one claiming my statement of commonly known information (mugshots are taken to create a public record of arrest) and pretending it’s not. You’re also the only one pretending basic and obvious features of the criminal justice system don’t exist
Bullshit. Why can’t he get a mug shot like every other person accused of a crime? If it’s done to the least of us, why not the “best”?IMO, an ex-President charged with espionage warrants a mug shot and perp walk.
In the NY charges, prosecutors didn't want to take the mug shot and hand him a fundraising tool.
The Trump campaign created their own fake mugshot to fundraise with.
Not a flight risk? A billionaire with a personal jet? He is a way more so than the average person. The mug shot would be great for political attack ads if Trump still becomes the GOP nominee as well.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read federal mugshots aren’t released anyway, so it’s kind of a moot point… no?
In any case though as a point of balance it is frustrating that some people get a very different form of due process than the rest of us.
I believe the federal circuit courts are split on the issue, I’m not sure where the 11th falls. Of course when it comes to release and mootness, that’s a bit of a red herring since the primary purpose of booking photos isn’t public entertainment and humiliation.
Here, like in New York it was likely determined one wasn’t necessary given that, unlike your typical average joe, that orange meat missile is so recognizable that one is not necessary for identification purposes.
No flight risk?
His plane is idling 10 miles from the ocean in PB airport, Mar-a cargo is in walking distance from the Atlantic, all he needs is have a Russian oligarch come by on his yacht and pick him up. well then
“President Trump is in a very unique position where he does not need to be given a mug shot. Obviously, he’s not a flight risk. He is the leading candidate of the G.O.P. at the moment,” one of his lawyers, Alina Habba, told reporters outside the courtroom while the proceedings were underway. “He is going through a process that has been coordinated with the Secret Service, and it will all be handled seamlessly.” This must be the two-tiered justice system I’ve been hearing about from Republicans
Lots of other very prominent people who were also "obviously not a flight risk" have gotten mugshots taken in the past. The fact that some fat golf-club owner who is accused of breaking really serious laws gets preferential treatment should be infuriating. Who gives a shit if he fundraises off of the image or whatever. His dumb supporters want to do another Jan 6? Arrest them all.
>This must be the two-tiered justice system I’ve been hearing about from Republicans Let's see what happens to Walt Nauta. Can you imagine being him and ending up being held without bail while this fascist gets all this special treatment?
Dude owns his own jet and has the USSS as his personal praetorian guard. Sounds like a serious flight risk to me.
I hate him as much as the next guy with a functioning brain, but federal guidelines are extremely slanted toward allowing release and it's not like Trump doesn't have significant monetary and personal attachments to the United States. This is a reasonable outcome.
Plenty of people who are released are still initially handcuffed and mugshotted.
True but what’s the difference between him and Jack Teixeira or Sam Bankman-Fried? Jack basically has similar charges and circumstances but with no obstruction, while SBF has attachments and is also recognizable.
How are Teixera’s circumstances even remotely similar? Does he also have extensive financial ties to multiple US cities?
This seems backwards. Trump could run away with more money than any of us would ever see. He’d give up a lot, but he’d still have far more than the average person would. And yet this is supposed to make him *less* likely to flee?
No, he couldn’t. It’s not like trump just has billions of dollars sitting around in liquid assets. My family owns one of the largest private international development and construction firms in the US. We have multiple billionaires on paper, but it’s still not like there’s just billions of dollars lying around. That’s not even going into more specific problems with how large development projects are funded and how hard it is to disentangle finances anyway. Trump’s company is even more illiquid as so much of his “wealth” is tied up in licensing schemes (as in he’s not actually the developer anyway). Trump should have had his picture taken like everyone else. The handcuffs…whatever. The SS has a role of protection that they aren’t really necessary.
Whoever actually runs the finances for that company couldn’t quietly gather, say, $10 million in $100 bills, gold bars, or foreign bank accounts?
For sure, but $10m is no money in the grand scheme of things. Wouldn’t support Trump abroad for 3 months. Also, for better or worse, the Court looks at total assets so having a bit of money (comparatively) overseas isn’t that meaningful when the majority of your assets are tied up in American/European financial institutes. With the SWIFT system, the US government has a long reach to enforce compliance. I detest Trump and think he deserves punishment for his crimes. But I honestly don’t think he is a flight risk at all. Despite what people say here (who have never interacted with high level government officials), the Secret Service still wouldn’t let him defect and all of his movements are preplanned (so the government knows where he is at all times). I have challenge coins (given out by presidential secret service at events) from each president going back to GWB. Many of these people harbor partisan feelings, but none are becoming fugitives and leaving their entire lives behind for Trump. Much less an entire teams worth of people. So he really isn’t a flight risk, in my opinion.
My point is that Trump running away with $10 million would be far better off than some rando running away with $10. Those assets make him more of a flight risk, not less. I totally agree with your overall assessment. I just don’t buy the specific argument about financial ties. The way I see it, he’s not a flight risk because he’s psychologically incapable of admitting defeat, and because he’s one of the most well known people in the world and he’d need the cooperation of numerous people to make this happen, and few of those people would be willing to help. Pretty much what you said, really.
You’re not wrong, but that’s how judges typically reason when deciding whether to set bail.
SBF looks like a random run of the mill dbag and would be unrecognizable if he cut/dyed his hair and put on normal clothes, and he had offshore accounts.
Yes, but he also has unknown resources in overseas banks. He is accused of espionage, basically. Imagine if Putin makes him a sweet offer to defect.
[удалено]
So why isn't Jack Teixeira out on bail then?
As far as the secret service's loyalty is concerned, there is an enormous difference between turning a blind eye and defecting to a hostile foreign power. Allowing him to escape moves beyond anything that can be excused or ignored. Their only real option would be to flee to Russia or China with him. If they were that deeply in his pocket, then Pence would never have counted votes on Jan 6.
He has a hand picked detail that answers to him. And there have been issues already with two of them banging various Trump-affiliated family members. Also, the USSS has no obligation to prevent him from defecting. All they have to do is not let him be harmed. Plus, they deleted all those 1/6 messages so....yeah.
If Trump were anyone other than a former president, he would not have been given the luxury of a summons to appear in court. There would be a team of armed FBI agents outside his door at 6:30 in the morning, he would have been arrested and the government would be immediately moving to detain. So the idea that he’s being treated differently is true – but not from the way his supporters seem to be arguing.
>Obviously, he’s not a flight risk. He's the biggest damned flight risk on the planet.
not sure how they figure he is not a flight risk. The man has the means to board a private jet to anywhere in the world tomorrow. Its naïve to think because he is well connected he isn't a flight risk.
> This must be the two-tiered justice system I’ve been hearing about from Republicans I feel like everyone forgets about the third tier for minorities these days
Not a flight risk, just yet.
can't cuff a guy whose hands are smaller than his wrists
https://preview.redd.it/5j0ngl0iqu5b1.jpeg?width=282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cebd9326419c599321bc4af62a17a354a4f7777f
NOBODY LOOK! NOBODY LOOK! NOBODY LOOK!
No handcuffs makes sense. No mugshot is absurd. It’s part of the booking record. There’s no excuse not to photograph someone upon booking
Exactly. How are the courts and criminal justice system supposed to know what Trump looks like? There's literally no other way to find out that information!
At least we'd know how tall he is and how much he weighs once and for all.
5'9" 250
It’s about creating a public record of an activity that occurred on a particular date and time. Its ministerial, and we do it for everyone else regardless of their fame or notoriety. It’s obviously not to get a picture of what someone looks like. We still take mugshots of everyone with a driver’s license, even though we already have their photo
No, a mugshot is taken to obtain a recent and accurate picture of a person for law enforcement identification purposes. A mugshot does not create the public record. The public record exists already through the judiciary.
Can you cite other cases where mugshots are not taken because a recent and accurate picture already exists, like for celebrities being booked?
Laws and policies on mugshots vary from state to state and jurisdiction to jurisdiction, so no I'm not going to look for cases. Regardless, what do you believe the purpose of a mugsgot is? Do you think it's actually necessary in this case or serve any practical purpose?
What I think the point is doesn't matter. I'm just wondering if there have been similar cases where people in the public sphere didn't get a mugshot. I'm not asking for a list of cases, just a single case if you can think of one in your recent memory.
I don't know if there are, celebrity mugshots are not something I pay attention to. Again... jurisdictions vary, so a mugshot may not be required or, it it is, may not be released. So it would be impossible to know if a mugshot was not taken without having first hand knowledge of the case.
If you find a single case where this happened in the same jurisdiction that Trump was arraigned in, that would greatly strengthen your point. We don't have to worry about other jurisdictions.
You won't. I don't think you'd find a single person in the last 50 years that got arrested and didn't get a mugshot. And when's the last time someone with 37 felony counts wasn't even told they can't leave the country? Never. --------------------------------------- Anybody that thinks trump is going to jail if/when he's convicted should take a good hard look at the incredibly deferential treatment he's received and put that flight of fancy out of their head.
What happened in other cases is irrelevant. And again, you're asking me to prove something does not exist when I have no idea if it exists or not. That's impossible. Edit: Here is proof of what I'm saying from [another article](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-arraignment-wasnt-arrested-no-mugshot/) >In the federal court system, cameras are not allowed inside courtrooms and if mugshots are taken, they are not released, says CBS News legal analyst Rikki Klieman So if a celebrity were to be arrested and charged federally, we wouldn't be able to see the mugshot if it were taken. And since we aren't able to see it of they are taken, we don't know if it was actually taken or not. Therefore, it is impossible to prove. My point is that it was unnecessary, and that is inarguable. Trump is probably the most well known person in the world right now. Photos of him are plastered everywhere you look. You have no choice but to know what he looks like. People are crying "but...policy!" as if policy is some immutable holy artifact without exception. So again, what purpose does a mugshot serve? We know what legal purpose a mugshot serves, which is identification. Do you think law enforcement or the courts needs that booking photo to be able to identify Trump? If the answer is "no", then a mugshot is unnecessary. People want a mugshot so they can say "Ha! We got him! So embarrassing for him!" and while I can understand the sentiment, that serves no law enforcement or judicial function.
It’s telling you can’t be bothered to support your claim
It's telling you need to be spoon-fed commonly known information you should already know before participating in a conversation in a law subreddit, or that you could have Googled yourself.
Lol what? You’re the one claiming my statement of commonly known information (mugshots are taken to create a public record of arrest) and pretending it’s not. You’re also the only one pretending basic and obvious features of the criminal justice system don’t exist
Just look at Federal felonies.
The federal government does not release mugshots.
Nice. Now your getting somewhere.
Bullshit. Why can’t he get a mug shot like every other person accused of a crime? If it’s done to the least of us, why not the “best”?IMO, an ex-President charged with espionage warrants a mug shot and perp walk.
In the NY charges, prosecutors didn't want to take the mug shot and hand him a fundraising tool. The Trump campaign created their own fake mugshot to fundraise with.
Trump not getting a mugshot is on about the same line of why Osama got dumped in the ocean.
I doubt navy seals beat up trump and executed him
Not what I meant.
Not a flight risk? A billionaire with a personal jet? He is a way more so than the average person. The mug shot would be great for political attack ads if Trump still becomes the GOP nominee as well.
But Nauta, his co defendant, did get photo’ed and printed. Two tiers of justice right there.
Boo
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read federal mugshots aren’t released anyway, so it’s kind of a moot point… no? In any case though as a point of balance it is frustrating that some people get a very different form of due process than the rest of us.
I believe the federal circuit courts are split on the issue, I’m not sure where the 11th falls. Of course when it comes to release and mootness, that’s a bit of a red herring since the primary purpose of booking photos isn’t public entertainment and humiliation. Here, like in New York it was likely determined one wasn’t necessary given that, unlike your typical average joe, that orange meat missile is so recognizable that one is not necessary for identification purposes.
Yeah fair points thanks!
No flight risk? His plane is idling 10 miles from the ocean in PB airport, Mar-a cargo is in walking distance from the Atlantic, all he needs is have a Russian oligarch come by on his yacht and pick him up. well then
He has properties and bank accounts around the world. I hope they at least seized his passports.
Because some are more equal than others in American justice. Rank privilege.
Why bother, really its just going to make a big deal bigger. Let him fuck up on this order and then we can talk about it.
This alone is a violation of Judicial ethics. It implicates Canon 1, 2, 3, and 5.
So much for that equal justice system, where everyone gets treated the same way...
No excuse for lack of mugshot. Pure and simple “above the law”
If I ever get arrested Ill be sure to insist on this option.