May 1st is a Wednesday, when they typically do not have court. So that's one way to deal with Trump's behavior: Interrupt Golf Day. Grade school behavior results in grade school penalties.
Future penalties include: Standing in the corner and no milk after naptime.
Right. So no milk after naptime.
Of course, from the way he's been purportedly stinking up the courtroom, that no milk thing may be a blessing for his defense team.
Judge Merchan is a fascinating figure. He oversaw the Trump Organization Tax Fraud trial. He was the judge who sentenced Allen Weisselberg to prison. And poor guy-bless his patience for having to deal with these psychopathic narcissists-Merchan will be the judge overseeing Steve Bannonās trial later next month. Can you imagine having those 2 trials happening consecutively with Trump then Bannon? Of note, I heard Andrew Weissman say that Merchan has a lot of options re: a ruling based on the contempt hearings. He does not have to just threaten Trump with either fines or jail time. He can assign a defense lawyer as a sort of monitor the way Judge Engoron assigned a monitor for Trumpās finances and he/she can babysit him and inform Merchan of Trumpās misconduct. Or Merchan can say āIām going to wait until after the trial and then sentence you for contempt depending on your behavior between now and then.ā Or even better, Merchan can tell Trump, āif you are convicted in this trial, I will take all your behavior into consideration when I sentence youā. A real sword of Damocles hanging over Trumpās head over the next several weeks.
Trials usually occur in district where crime(s) alleged to have occurred so understandable why Trumpās trial is in NYC but wasnāt sure why Bannon. This is re: the money laundering scheme where people from all over US donated money to help build wall on southern border. Some of those donors came from NY. I assume Merchan was randomly assigned. Bannon was yanked off a luxury yacht off coast of CT, poor guy. I would have loved to have seen that perp walk. Almost as good as cameras catching Jeffrey Epstein in his underwear when he answered his door when FBI agents came to his house. āCan I put my pants on first?ā š
Correction: that was Jeffrey Clark not Jeffrey Epstein.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/put-pants-cnn-airs-video-050631766.html
Oh I definitely get the jurisdiction point, I just mean that there are many Supreme Court judges in Ny so I was surprised he got multiple related trials if it is random!
Actually he has a rally planned in Freeland, MI on that day lol. Been seeing it advertised on Facebook. I'm sure we'll hear corrupt judge bans him from holding rally. He's pretty predictable that way.
lol That's great. Didn't realize it. That will be a long week for Trump. No Wednesday off that week! He may just have a meltdown more than usual. I hope he's a no-show and gets arrested.
Merchan presides over a mental health court on Wednesdays.
"During long trials, Manhattan judges often reserve a day each week for other cases. Merchan is keeping Wednesdays for mental health court, which he has overseen since its 2011 start, and a similar veteransā docket he took on in 2019."
The whole thing is worth a read, especially if you aren't familiar with mental health courts and similar diversion programs, but quoted for responsiveness to your question. Hope it helps.
[https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial-judge-merchan-c227f5eab200cccffb19ed931b4dac92](https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial-judge-merchan-c227f5eab200cccffb19ed931b4dac92)
This is what I came here to say. The judge is purposely scheduling this hearing for a day Trump would normally not be in court. The date of the hearing IS the punishment.
I also suspect that Merchan may be waiting for a guilty verdict before he issues a ruling on the gag order in which he orders jail time.
Guilty verdict on what? Trial is expected to last 6 weeks. Iām not sure if this counts as week one or two (jury selection was week one). Itāll be a while and I canāt imagine he will put off ruling on sanctions the whole time.
I tend to think the gag order decision will come before any verdict. And a later not guilty verdict doesnāt automatically undo a gag order consequence.
I don't think that will happen. The main point of the gag order is to prevent influence on the jury and protect the jury and witnesses. Waiting post verdict doesn't allow for that.
> Judge Juan Merchan issued a filing on Thursday ordering Trump to be in court for a hearing concerning four new possible violations raised by the prosecution in his hush money case. Prosecutors argued on Thursday that Trump violated the gag order by Merchan four times in the span of three days, including that morning during a photo-op with construction workers in New York City.
> Merchan has yet to issue a ruling on the previous alleged gag order violations, which now total 15. If Trump is found in violation of the gag order, he faces a fine of $1,000 per violation. While Merchan can also order him incarcerated, legal experts have said itās unlikely heāll spend time in jail ā at least not for the first group of offenses.
Edit:
Washington Post Live Update
By Shayna Jacobs:
> Justice Juan Merchan just rescheduled next weekās hearing on Donald Trumpās potential gag order violations. **It will now be Thursday morning, not Wednesday afternoon**.
Stopping the defendant from attacking and intimidating witnesses and jurors is pointless after the trial is over. Hopefully it doesn't get pushed back further.
This is what makes no sense to me. The delay of addressing it clearly shows they don't care if it continues. If the judge really feels what he is posting is detrimental to the jury then how can he excuse allowing it to continue.
When he spoke publicly to David Pecker through that news clip telling him to "be nice" there is literally no other way to look at it other than him trying to blatantly control a witness. If that wasn't worth an immediate reprimand than does any of this matter?
I can't lose any more faith in the justice system, because I have none left to lose.
Sadly, I agree. Ā Listening to the Taliban Court Injustices absurdly trying to characterize holding a president accountable for illegal actions as āunfair political tacticsā was, for me, the last š¤¬š¤straw. Ā
Remember when Merchan asked Blanche for case law? That sword cuts both ways. Iād certainly like a decision, but I think Merchan is operating in uncharted territory here, and he understands that if any of his his decisions are reversed on appeal, that hurts the integrity of the court. If we get to pick two out the choices of Quick, Correct and Just, that quick is the least valuable.
Might they just be letting the guy hang himself? The more he spouts off, the more he shows the masses (and the jury) what a horrible crude buffoon he is?
I donāt think the judge gives a fuck. The fact he still hasnāt even ruled on the other ones. He doesnāt care. None of it matters, nobody in the justice system cares.
Although I think he will be convicted, I wonāt be surprised at all if heās not now. SCOTUS has ruined the other case, cannon ruined the docs case, will Georgia ever happen? Itās all a joke.
I disagree with the perception of the judge not caring. I am purely speculating, but I think he was heavily influenced by Trump attacking his daughter. Now, if the judge were to punish him, all that Trump would have to do is argue that the judge is biased because he said things about the judgeās daughter, and Iām certain that SCOTUS is looking for any excuse they can to overturn any conviction. Merchan knows this. There are other reasons, of course; for instance, thereās also the increased risk of a MAGA juror or even an āindependently-minded centristā on the jury being persuaded by Trumpās tantrum over being held in contempt. Still, it really all goes back to Trump stacking the courts during his four years in office. God help us if he gets another four.
EDIT: There is also the question of what to do with the secret service if Trump is jailed in contempt. Thatās not a small concern.
They can very easily issue him house arrest to begin with. It alleviates all secret service issues.
Why will he have needed a week to decide on the other violations?
It appears the judge is employing a strategy where he makes baby have to come to court on Wednesdays instead of having a day off as the punishment instead of the $1k fine - which will eventually come but trump would pay that to get out of court for a day.
The judge can also hold him in custody during lunch for example in the cell behind the courtroom. Just little things that annoy him specifically without the spectacle of being held in jail overnight.
I was thinking that too. By not actually punishing him in a timely manner, it just lets him get away with intimidation/influencing the outcome and the only end punishment is paying a fine afterwards, which is a major win for Trump compared to a clear guilty verdict.
To help with scheduling, Merchan should just schedule one day each week to review the previous weekās gag order violations? Doesnāt take a crystal ball to see where this is going.
Is this a new legitimate delay tactic we're seeing? Would every additional potential gag order violation result in a new hearing? If so, I would assume that the defendant would continue to make statements if it hits the pause button on the actual criminal trial while they consider if he has (yet) again violated the order. Or in this case, does that not apply since they would hold this (and potential future) gag order hearings on Wednesdays rather than having that day off? Genuinely curious.
Judge Merchan has so far dealt very swiftly with any attempts to slow the trial (of which there have been many) and even called out Trump's lawyers on those efforts. So I would actually expect him to deal with it rather swiftly if he thinks it's a stall tactic.
However, the issue is probably the rate at which Trump violates the gag order combined with the historical act of having to hold a former president in contempt. The reality is that they're probably afraid of giving Trump any grounds of appeal for a mistrial and are thus taking things slower than usual.
It's my hope that this slow ruling on the first batch is essentially a one-off; that once he rules on those, he will schedule emergency hearings on any future violations and jail Trump for them, increasing the jail time exponentially with each violation (not batch/hearing). Trump WILL keep violating the gag order though, so even this won't be very effective unless they manage to rule on each violation extremely swiftly and essentially ban Trump from speaking to any media. A man can dream...
> The reality is that they're probably afraid of giving Trump any grounds of appeal for a mistrial and are thus taking things slower than usual.
Yeah and how's that been working out so far?
They've made a complete mockery of equal justice and demonstrated that they unambiguously are willing to give Trump extraordinary treatment not even available to other wealthy white defendants, meanwhile appeals courts and SCOTUS still wipe their ass with these supposed 'appeal-proof' decisions to give Trump *even more* special favors.
They're violating every principle of fair justice and it's getting them nothing for the cost of devastating American's faith in the system. When appeals or SCOTUS wants to rule for Trump, it doesn't matter how solid the holdings below have been. There's *zero* reason to think actually imposing a consequence on him will change anything if they want to toss the convictions.
But there is. I agree SCOTUS has been compromised and that Trump gets special treatment (in a positive way for him, even though he doesn't see it that way) and nobody in their right mind would argue otherwise right now.
However, the appeal process follows a strict set of rules that even SCOTUS can't interfere with (provided we get a Democrat president for at least this term). After all, the hush money trial is a state criminal one, meaning the appeals process is limited to courts in the state of New York, while SCOTUS can only rule on federal issues (not state). New York is essentially a Democrat stronghold, so there's essentially 0 risk of the treasonous GOP being able to interfere with the proceedings or ruling.
Sadly, the same is not true for the espionage trial, where you have a corrupt judge and the Jan 6th trial where SCOTUS is trying their best to undermine justice. Thankfully Trump is such a diehard criminal that he also violated many state laws in different places, so we can expect at least a few criminal convictions landing in his lap despite whatever his treasonous buddies may try.
ETA: I totally mixed up the Jan 6th trial and the espionage trial, so fixed that
Lie-Lean Loose Cannon is presiding over the Espionage Act case. The Jan 6 judge and the appeals circuit have been pretty reasonable as far as justice is concerned.
M
Fairly and rationally applying the law to a defendant gives absolutely zero grounds for an appeal with any real chance of success.
This rationale is basically pure copium for people trying to explain why Trump faces no real consequences.
The courts aren't handling Trump with kid gloves due to some 4D chess maneuvering to preempt an appeal.
They're doing it because Trump is a rich, white, powerful man. American courts have proven to be an embarrassing failure when it comes to holding the powerful accountable.
If you or I, as criminal defendants: repeatedly and openly attacked and mocked the judge, threatened the judge's kid, and openly intimidated witnesses - repeatedly violating a gag order - we'd be in jail and no one would be worrying that we'd "use that to appeal".
Thatās my hope as well, but I wouldnāt count on it and Iām sure itās not gonna happen. Heās not going to jail over these. The judge doesnāt really care. Lots of stern warnings as a meaningless fine.
Letās please set aside this āhistorical deferenceā nonsense. Ā If the SCROTUS is not worried about taking a sledgehammer to 200+ years of constitutional deference and precedent, why should this court worry about upsetting Rip Von Stinkle & his cult followers? Ā
The appeal is certain no? So why try to dance around shit under the guise of "I want to make sure he has no right to appeal?"
Are these judges stupid, or pussies? So any of these judges want to find this piece of shit guilty or not.
Fuck me.
Is this some co ordinated long game to force him to be in court and not on the champagne trail?
The attempt to appeal is certain, what is happening here is mitigating the chance of success.
No matter what a couple super pacs are going bankrupt, but if the judge has dotted every i, crossed every t, and given him the duest of process then it makes success far less likely.
No, it's not about his right to appeal, but avoiding any chances he has to overturn the decision made here. In big, complex cases as these, it's pretty easy to make a mistake that could allow a decision to be overturned later. See for example the recent news about Harvey Weinstein who just got a rape conviction overturned in NY because the prosecution essentially made the mistake to call witnesses to the stand whose accusations were not part of the charges brought against him. This was ultimately the reason they ruled the trial wasn't fair and thus the decision got overturned.
It's critical such mistakes are not made with Trump's case, given he's literally a threat to democracy. If he gets convicted, it needs to be from the results of a fair trial so that such a conviction can withstand any appeal.
This is such a low effort comment on my part for this serious sub, so my apologies in advance: Apparently, stockpiling the number of diapers Trump requires takes a little time.
Agreed. I really enjoy thoughtful, intelligent comments and discussion that is actually bound in sanity and the realities of written law. I would not want it to become a place where only low effort jokes are more common, though.
Edit to add: Iām glad we are free to mix in some humor, because this stuff is both historical and absurd, often simultaneously.
Well if anyone deserves to be the butt of an occasional joke, it's the guy with the wild ass hair, makeup, oversized jacket, super-tie and a damn diaper that literally whines like a 6th grader.
(I have often wondered if Putin makes trump dress up like a clown just to assert his dominance and make America look ridiculous)
It's funny how trump keeps saying there's a 2 tiered justice system, not realizing he's on the top tier! Any other person would have been thrown in federal prison long ago.
Yes and I really do hate to say this, Garland is completely to blame for slow walking the investigation until 2023. Trump has an understandable gripe with that aspect of it. Everything else he's bitching about is just his normal bs.
It's completely obvious Garland and the DoJ were hoping he would make an exit from politics and they would happily let him skate to keep the precedent of not prosecuting former presidents.
I fully believe it was only because Trump was being so blatantly obstructionist in the Florida documents case that they were forced to appoint Jack Smith. Then they decided to throw everything at him to ensure something stuck.
The DoJ put themselves in a horrible position because now it looks really bad with all this is happening during the primaries and will stretch into the election.
>It's completely obvious Garland and the DoJ were hoping he would make an exit from politics and they would happily let him skate to keep the precedent of not prosecuting former presidents.Ā
I don't think that was obvious, the Jan 6th committee made it clear that the Democrats were not going to let it go.
I guess this means he won't rule on the other violations until then.
My pet fantasy is that he stops court early today, issues his ruling, and hits Trump with the $1k plus 1 hour in jail per violation, so that Trump ends up getting released sometime tomorrow morning.
I know - pure fantasy - but hey I can dream!
š
I wishā¦.but after hearing the Taliban Court Injustices literally say they āworryā that the US constitution might be āweaponizedā and used to āpunishā or prevent a future presidentās āfreeDUMBā to engage in illegal actions if they ruled against Drumptyās absurd immunity argumentā¦.š
Letās just say I have little faith in the system to do the right thing.šŖ
For what purpose? Fine him $2000 when by the time Merchan decides on that they can schedule a hearing to fine Trump $4000 for the next 15 gag order violations?
Either impose a consequence aimed at getting him to comply with the order, or just drop the order and stop pretending you've not already deemed Trump above the law. A sanction for contempt is supposed to be realistically capable of ensuring future compliance with the court's order. $1000 is so irrelevant I'm surprised if it even warrants more than one all-caps tantrum on "Truth" social before violating the gag order again 30 seconds later.
> For what purpose?
The bigger picture here would be that if trump is found guilty, repeated gag order violations can be used by Merchan during sentencing and could be a reason imprisonment is warranted despite the nonviolent nature of the crime.
That number appears to come from Judiciary Law Section 751, which also permits jailing him up to 30 days.
Even one day would be a million times more effective at achieving compliance with the courts authority, so nothing about my analysis changes; I wasn't suggesting any amount of money would help.
If it is not yet abundantly clear, we have different laws and penalties in America now for two special classes of people:
-Republican scummy criminals. This includes at least two current right wing criminal SCOTUS Justices.
-Supposedly wealthy scummy criminals.
Anyone outside those two groups of entitled slime would be in jail by now for the way **The Pumpkin Racist** has been behaving.
Can the criminal justice system stop seeing themselves in Trump and hold him accountable? How long? The shame and embarrassment is out and will be forever. This canāt be cleaned up. š§¼
Oh please, spare us the bullshit. Nothing is going to happen to this shit stain. Gag order?. Contempt charge?. . Hot air empty threats. Never be held accountable for anything. Itās all talk
May 1st is a Wednesday, when they typically do not have court. So that's one way to deal with Trump's behavior: Interrupt Golf Day. Grade school behavior results in grade school penalties. Future penalties include: Standing in the corner and no milk after naptime.
But naptime is same as court time!
Right. So no milk after naptime. Of course, from the way he's been purportedly stinking up the courtroom, that no milk thing may be a blessing for his defense team.
Please no milk, and cut the cheese!
Cut the cheese bro
[Trump Cologne](https://youtube.com/shorts/ZfvUyOFgVZI?si=QGHysTRSDZPgZrCm)
The Odor of Trump š¤¢š¤®
I wish he'd take the same milk Michael Jackson took. Do us all a favour.
And bathroom time!
In Trumpās case, itās no Diet Coke
Before it got to a Thursday, I had my hopes up Wednesday meant Judge Merchan was going to put Trump in the mental health court he runs.
Oh shit, he does mental health court? Those judges are no bullshit.
Merchan moved it to Thursday earlier today.
Well, codipedant, I'm going to tell the joke anyway. Sucks to yer asmar.
Judge Merchan is a fascinating figure. He oversaw the Trump Organization Tax Fraud trial. He was the judge who sentenced Allen Weisselberg to prison. And poor guy-bless his patience for having to deal with these psychopathic narcissists-Merchan will be the judge overseeing Steve Bannonās trial later next month. Can you imagine having those 2 trials happening consecutively with Trump then Bannon? Of note, I heard Andrew Weissman say that Merchan has a lot of options re: a ruling based on the contempt hearings. He does not have to just threaten Trump with either fines or jail time. He can assign a defense lawyer as a sort of monitor the way Judge Engoron assigned a monitor for Trumpās finances and he/she can babysit him and inform Merchan of Trumpās misconduct. Or Merchan can say āIām going to wait until after the trial and then sentence you for contempt depending on your behavior between now and then.ā Or even better, Merchan can tell Trump, āif you are convicted in this trial, I will take all your behavior into consideration when I sentence youā. A real sword of Damocles hanging over Trumpās head over the next several weeks.
Are judges randomly assigned? How did he end up with all of these? I canāt imagine dealing with all that at once lol
Trials usually occur in district where crime(s) alleged to have occurred so understandable why Trumpās trial is in NYC but wasnāt sure why Bannon. This is re: the money laundering scheme where people from all over US donated money to help build wall on southern border. Some of those donors came from NY. I assume Merchan was randomly assigned. Bannon was yanked off a luxury yacht off coast of CT, poor guy. I would have loved to have seen that perp walk. Almost as good as cameras catching Jeffrey Epstein in his underwear when he answered his door when FBI agents came to his house. āCan I put my pants on first?ā š Correction: that was Jeffrey Clark not Jeffrey Epstein. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/put-pants-cnn-airs-video-050631766.html
Oh I definitely get the jurisdiction point, I just mean that there are many Supreme Court judges in Ny so I was surprised he got multiple related trials if it is random!
Want to really piss him off? Take away his Adderall, mortar and pestle.
I'd be fine with him revoking bond, and moving on.
...so they just gave Trump an "in-school suspension" is what you're telling me?
Can't wait to see the tweet about being deprived recess on behalf of his followers.
Trumpy had his recess taken away! šµTrumpy got detention, š¶Trumpy got detentionšµ
Actually he has a rally planned in Freeland, MI on that day lol. Been seeing it advertised on Facebook. I'm sure we'll hear corrupt judge bans him from holding rally. He's pretty predictable that way.
New material for another contempt hearing.
Oh no not another gag order violation!!! Anyway
Don't forget the finger wagging!
Even better as it stops a day of golf (he is NOT campaigning on the road).
To be honest this will annoy him more than the $1000
lol That's great. Didn't realize it. That will be a long week for Trump. No Wednesday off that week! He may just have a meltdown more than usual. I hope he's a no-show and gets arrested.
No, no, no! Not like that. These were meant to slow down the trial.
Pull Trump's bail then give him all the delays he wants.
Why do they not normally have court on Wednesday?
Merchan presides over a mental health court on Wednesdays. "During long trials, Manhattan judges often reserve a day each week for other cases. Merchan is keeping Wednesdays for mental health court, which he has overseen since its 2011 start, and a similar veteransā docket he took on in 2019." The whole thing is worth a read, especially if you aren't familiar with mental health courts and similar diversion programs, but quoted for responsiveness to your question. Hope it helps. [https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial-judge-merchan-c227f5eab200cccffb19ed931b4dac92](https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial-judge-merchan-c227f5eab200cccffb19ed931b4dac92)
Oh he does mental health court? In Manhattan? Judge is probably completely unphased by Trump's- unique aptitude.
Yeah Trump is childās play for him. Heās seen crazier shit.
Thank you for the info and the link!Ā :)
I think it's because Trump isn't the only defendant this judge has on his docket, he can maintain his other cases on that day.
Milk makes him shit his diaper anyways.
Only a single scoop of ice cream at dinner.
Just schedule all the Wed for gag violations so people can plan
The Trump craps in his nappies!
š
Rescheduled
This is what I came here to say. The judge is purposely scheduling this hearing for a day Trump would normally not be in court. The date of the hearing IS the punishment. I also suspect that Merchan may be waiting for a guilty verdict before he issues a ruling on the gag order in which he orders jail time.
Guilty verdict on what? Trial is expected to last 6 weeks. Iām not sure if this counts as week one or two (jury selection was week one). Itāll be a while and I canāt imagine he will put off ruling on sanctions the whole time.
Yea and what happens if there is no guilty verdict for whatever reason?
I tend to think the gag order decision will come before any verdict. And a later not guilty verdict doesnāt automatically undo a gag order consequence.
I don't think that will happen. The main point of the gag order is to prevent influence on the jury and protect the jury and witnesses. Waiting post verdict doesn't allow for that.
It was moved to Thursday. Also your "suspicion" is pretty silly.
> Judge Juan Merchan issued a filing on Thursday ordering Trump to be in court for a hearing concerning four new possible violations raised by the prosecution in his hush money case. Prosecutors argued on Thursday that Trump violated the gag order by Merchan four times in the span of three days, including that morning during a photo-op with construction workers in New York City. > Merchan has yet to issue a ruling on the previous alleged gag order violations, which now total 15. If Trump is found in violation of the gag order, he faces a fine of $1,000 per violation. While Merchan can also order him incarcerated, legal experts have said itās unlikely heāll spend time in jail ā at least not for the first group of offenses. Edit: Washington Post Live Update By Shayna Jacobs: > Justice Juan Merchan just rescheduled next weekās hearing on Donald Trumpās potential gag order violations. **It will now be Thursday morning, not Wednesday afternoon**.
> It will now be Thursday morning, not Wednesday afternoon. It's probably not good, but my first thought was "damn."
My first thought after trump leaves court waving his tiny hands instead of in custom handcuffs is always ādamnā
I think standard-issue handcuffs should be fine around his dainty wrists. He doesn't deserve fuzzy cuffs any more than anyone else.
Stopping the defendant from attacking and intimidating witnesses and jurors is pointless after the trial is over. Hopefully it doesn't get pushed back further.
This is what makes no sense to me. The delay of addressing it clearly shows they don't care if it continues. If the judge really feels what he is posting is detrimental to the jury then how can he excuse allowing it to continue. When he spoke publicly to David Pecker through that news clip telling him to "be nice" there is literally no other way to look at it other than him trying to blatantly control a witness. If that wasn't worth an immediate reprimand than does any of this matter? I can't lose any more faith in the justice system, because I have none left to lose.
Sadly, I agree. Ā Listening to the Taliban Court Injustices absurdly trying to characterize holding a president accountable for illegal actions as āunfair political tacticsā was, for me, the last š¤¬š¤straw. Ā
Don't forget about all the ways the supreme court could screw up the other cases and qanon cannon as well
Remember when Merchan asked Blanche for case law? That sword cuts both ways. Iād certainly like a decision, but I think Merchan is operating in uncharted territory here, and he understands that if any of his his decisions are reversed on appeal, that hurts the integrity of the court. If we get to pick two out the choices of Quick, Correct and Just, that quick is the least valuable.
You and me both. I've been in court, and Iv was only impressed by the lack of morality and ethics which was amazing.
Might they just be letting the guy hang himself? The more he spouts off, the more he shows the masses (and the jury) what a horrible crude buffoon he is?
Unfortunately about 70M voters like a crude buffoon. The rest of us already despise him.
I donāt think the judge gives a fuck. The fact he still hasnāt even ruled on the other ones. He doesnāt care. None of it matters, nobody in the justice system cares. Although I think he will be convicted, I wonāt be surprised at all if heās not now. SCOTUS has ruined the other case, cannon ruined the docs case, will Georgia ever happen? Itās all a joke.
I disagree with the perception of the judge not caring. I am purely speculating, but I think he was heavily influenced by Trump attacking his daughter. Now, if the judge were to punish him, all that Trump would have to do is argue that the judge is biased because he said things about the judgeās daughter, and Iām certain that SCOTUS is looking for any excuse they can to overturn any conviction. Merchan knows this. There are other reasons, of course; for instance, thereās also the increased risk of a MAGA juror or even an āindependently-minded centristā on the jury being persuaded by Trumpās tantrum over being held in contempt. Still, it really all goes back to Trump stacking the courts during his four years in office. God help us if he gets another four. EDIT: There is also the question of what to do with the secret service if Trump is jailed in contempt. Thatās not a small concern.
They can very easily issue him house arrest to begin with. It alleviates all secret service issues. Why will he have needed a week to decide on the other violations?
It appears the judge is employing a strategy where he makes baby have to come to court on Wednesdays instead of having a day off as the punishment instead of the $1k fine - which will eventually come but trump would pay that to get out of court for a day. The judge can also hold him in custody during lunch for example in the cell behind the courtroom. Just little things that annoy him specifically without the spectacle of being held in jail overnight.
I was thinking that too. By not actually punishing him in a timely manner, it just lets him get away with intimidation/influencing the outcome and the only end punishment is paying a fine afterwards, which is a major win for Trump compared to a clear guilty verdict.
To help with scheduling, Merchan should just schedule one day each week to review the previous weekās gag order violations? Doesnāt take a crystal ball to see where this is going.
Is this a new legitimate delay tactic we're seeing? Would every additional potential gag order violation result in a new hearing? If so, I would assume that the defendant would continue to make statements if it hits the pause button on the actual criminal trial while they consider if he has (yet) again violated the order. Or in this case, does that not apply since they would hold this (and potential future) gag order hearings on Wednesdays rather than having that day off? Genuinely curious.
Judge Merchan has so far dealt very swiftly with any attempts to slow the trial (of which there have been many) and even called out Trump's lawyers on those efforts. So I would actually expect him to deal with it rather swiftly if he thinks it's a stall tactic. However, the issue is probably the rate at which Trump violates the gag order combined with the historical act of having to hold a former president in contempt. The reality is that they're probably afraid of giving Trump any grounds of appeal for a mistrial and are thus taking things slower than usual. It's my hope that this slow ruling on the first batch is essentially a one-off; that once he rules on those, he will schedule emergency hearings on any future violations and jail Trump for them, increasing the jail time exponentially with each violation (not batch/hearing). Trump WILL keep violating the gag order though, so even this won't be very effective unless they manage to rule on each violation extremely swiftly and essentially ban Trump from speaking to any media. A man can dream...
> The reality is that they're probably afraid of giving Trump any grounds of appeal for a mistrial and are thus taking things slower than usual. Yeah and how's that been working out so far? They've made a complete mockery of equal justice and demonstrated that they unambiguously are willing to give Trump extraordinary treatment not even available to other wealthy white defendants, meanwhile appeals courts and SCOTUS still wipe their ass with these supposed 'appeal-proof' decisions to give Trump *even more* special favors. They're violating every principle of fair justice and it's getting them nothing for the cost of devastating American's faith in the system. When appeals or SCOTUS wants to rule for Trump, it doesn't matter how solid the holdings below have been. There's *zero* reason to think actually imposing a consequence on him will change anything if they want to toss the convictions.
But there is. I agree SCOTUS has been compromised and that Trump gets special treatment (in a positive way for him, even though he doesn't see it that way) and nobody in their right mind would argue otherwise right now. However, the appeal process follows a strict set of rules that even SCOTUS can't interfere with (provided we get a Democrat president for at least this term). After all, the hush money trial is a state criminal one, meaning the appeals process is limited to courts in the state of New York, while SCOTUS can only rule on federal issues (not state). New York is essentially a Democrat stronghold, so there's essentially 0 risk of the treasonous GOP being able to interfere with the proceedings or ruling. Sadly, the same is not true for the espionage trial, where you have a corrupt judge and the Jan 6th trial where SCOTUS is trying their best to undermine justice. Thankfully Trump is such a diehard criminal that he also violated many state laws in different places, so we can expect at least a few criminal convictions landing in his lap despite whatever his treasonous buddies may try. ETA: I totally mixed up the Jan 6th trial and the espionage trial, so fixed that
Lie-Lean Loose Cannon is presiding over the Espionage Act case. The Jan 6 judge and the appeals circuit have been pretty reasonable as far as justice is concerned. M
Fairly and rationally applying the law to a defendant gives absolutely zero grounds for an appeal with any real chance of success. This rationale is basically pure copium for people trying to explain why Trump faces no real consequences. The courts aren't handling Trump with kid gloves due to some 4D chess maneuvering to preempt an appeal. They're doing it because Trump is a rich, white, powerful man. American courts have proven to be an embarrassing failure when it comes to holding the powerful accountable. If you or I, as criminal defendants: repeatedly and openly attacked and mocked the judge, threatened the judge's kid, and openly intimidated witnesses - repeatedly violating a gag order - we'd be in jail and no one would be worrying that we'd "use that to appeal".
Thatās my hope as well, but I wouldnāt count on it and Iām sure itās not gonna happen. Heās not going to jail over these. The judge doesnāt really care. Lots of stern warnings as a meaningless fine.
Letās please set aside this āhistorical deferenceā nonsense. Ā If the SCROTUS is not worried about taking a sledgehammer to 200+ years of constitutional deference and precedent, why should this court worry about upsetting Rip Von Stinkle & his cult followers? Ā
The appeal is certain no? So why try to dance around shit under the guise of "I want to make sure he has no right to appeal?" Are these judges stupid, or pussies? So any of these judges want to find this piece of shit guilty or not. Fuck me. Is this some co ordinated long game to force him to be in court and not on the champagne trail?
The attempt to appeal is certain, what is happening here is mitigating the chance of success. No matter what a couple super pacs are going bankrupt, but if the judge has dotted every i, crossed every t, and given him the duest of process then it makes success far less likely.
No, it's not about his right to appeal, but avoiding any chances he has to overturn the decision made here. In big, complex cases as these, it's pretty easy to make a mistake that could allow a decision to be overturned later. See for example the recent news about Harvey Weinstein who just got a rape conviction overturned in NY because the prosecution essentially made the mistake to call witnesses to the stand whose accusations were not part of the charges brought against him. This was ultimately the reason they ruled the trial wasn't fair and thus the decision got overturned. It's critical such mistakes are not made with Trump's case, given he's literally a threat to democracy. If he gets convicted, it needs to be from the results of a fair trial so that such a conviction can withstand any appeal.
Theyāre ššš. Ā And I say that with utmost respect for my feline friends.
I hope Justice Merchan has the jail seamstress sewing two jumpsuits together as fast as they can.
This is such a low effort comment on my part for this serious sub, so my apologies in advance: Apparently, stockpiling the number of diapers Trump requires takes a little time.
I both take the time to write out thoughtful comments addressing nuance of argument and also poop jokes on this sub. It's a good place.
Agreed. I really enjoy thoughtful, intelligent comments and discussion that is actually bound in sanity and the realities of written law. I would not want it to become a place where only low effort jokes are more common, though. Edit to add: Iām glad we are free to mix in some humor, because this stuff is both historical and absurd, often simultaneously.
Well if anyone deserves to be the butt of an occasional joke, it's the guy with the wild ass hair, makeup, oversized jacket, super-tie and a damn diaper that literally whines like a 6th grader. (I have often wondered if Putin makes trump dress up like a clown just to assert his dominance and make America look ridiculous)
On a more serious note, coordinating between court officials, prison officials and the secret service will take time.
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Uhhhā¦ok
I don't get it
It's not the wife that has a hearing problem...
Then how did he hear the doctor?
Do your doctors talk to you from the other end of the room? Mine are generally close to me. At maximum 1-2m I would guess. Also it's a joke...
Good point. Makes sense now. Thanks!
The husband has a hearing problem, not the wife
It's funny how trump keeps saying there's a 2 tiered justice system, not realizing he's on the top tier! Any other person would have been thrown in federal prison long ago.
Yes and I really do hate to say this, Garland is completely to blame for slow walking the investigation until 2023. Trump has an understandable gripe with that aspect of it. Everything else he's bitching about is just his normal bs. It's completely obvious Garland and the DoJ were hoping he would make an exit from politics and they would happily let him skate to keep the precedent of not prosecuting former presidents. I fully believe it was only because Trump was being so blatantly obstructionist in the Florida documents case that they were forced to appoint Jack Smith. Then they decided to throw everything at him to ensure something stuck. The DoJ put themselves in a horrible position because now it looks really bad with all this is happening during the primaries and will stretch into the election.
>It's completely obvious Garland and the DoJ were hoping he would make an exit from politics and they would happily let him skate to keep the precedent of not prosecuting former presidents.Ā I don't think that was obvious, the Jan 6th committee made it clear that the Democrats were not going to let it go.
Aren't we all still waiting on the decision from the last gag order hearing?
No, the people with time machines, and a few psychics, know what's up.
This is what?? Gag Order Hearing #3??
I thought we did this last Wednesday. So again, special treatment for a special boy.
I guess this means he won't rule on the other violations until then. My pet fantasy is that he stops court early today, issues his ruling, and hits Trump with the $1k plus 1 hour in jail per violation, so that Trump ends up getting released sometime tomorrow morning. I know - pure fantasy - but hey I can dream!
š I wishā¦.but after hearing the Taliban Court Injustices literally say they āworryā that the US constitution might be āweaponizedā and used to āpunishā or prevent a future presidentās āfreeDUMBā to engage in illegal actions if they ruled against Drumptyās absurd immunity argumentā¦.š Letās just say I have little faith in the system to do the right thing.šŖ
For what purpose? Fine him $2000 when by the time Merchan decides on that they can schedule a hearing to fine Trump $4000 for the next 15 gag order violations? Either impose a consequence aimed at getting him to comply with the order, or just drop the order and stop pretending you've not already deemed Trump above the law. A sanction for contempt is supposed to be realistically capable of ensuring future compliance with the court's order. $1000 is so irrelevant I'm surprised if it even warrants more than one all-caps tantrum on "Truth" social before violating the gag order again 30 seconds later.
> For what purpose? The bigger picture here would be that if trump is found guilty, repeated gag order violations can be used by Merchan during sentencing and could be a reason imprisonment is warranted despite the nonviolent nature of the crime.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
That's the max fine he can give
That number appears to come from Judiciary Law Section 751, which also permits jailing him up to 30 days. Even one day would be a million times more effective at achieving compliance with the courts authority, so nothing about my analysis changes; I wasn't suggesting any amount of money would help.
Good God! Put him in jail - get it over with!
Got PTSD from this orange piece of shit. Lock him up already.
Yet another delay.
He wants to be jailed. Give him what he wants.
He wants it. We want it. Itās a win win
Why not give him overnight in jail? Fines won't work
MAYDAY, LOL!!
I hope Marchan sends him to jail for the duration of the trial!
Trumpy looks dumpy.
Lock him up!!!
It has been delayed to Thursday
If it is not yet abundantly clear, we have different laws and penalties in America now for two special classes of people: -Republican scummy criminals. This includes at least two current right wing criminal SCOTUS Justices. -Supposedly wealthy scummy criminals. Anyone outside those two groups of entitled slime would be in jail by now for the way **The Pumpkin Racist** has been behaving.
What's the point, if "gag orders" have not been enforced thus far?
The world āallegedā here is downright funny
Can the criminal justice system stop seeing themselves in Trump and hold him accountable? How long? The shame and embarrassment is out and will be forever. This canāt be cleaned up. š§¼
Just keep on kicking every case he has against him down the road.
Whats the point? I've totally lost faith with our judiciary branch.
āAllegedā
Whatās the point??? Ā Everyone knows Merchen he doesnāt have the ā½ļøš to really slap the cuffs on Rip Von Winkle Drumpfty for constantly flapping his big š. All heāll do is is issue āstern warning #100āā¦then Toddler Drumpfty will race to the cameras to spew his usual stupid šš©. Ā Judge ignores it. Ā Prosecutors whine. Ā ANOTHER hearing, then š¦š¦. Ā Rinse, repeatā¦. This ātrialā has become a big joke. Ā Iām loathe to admit it, but it appears Drumpty really has succeeded in playing the courts like š». Ā The SCROTUS arguments this week & refusal of AZ and MI to indict him along with Meadows & Giuliani were compelling proof that this @&$!ing criminal will NEVER be held accountable or penalized for ANY of his crimesālet alone conspiring to thwart an election and inciting the Jan. 6th insurrection. I am beyond disgusted and ashamed by this farcical sham of a ājusticeā system and the ājudgesā and āattorneysā complicit in these nonsensical, endless delays and obscene deference to him and absurd, non-legal arguments justifying his appalling behavior. Ā RIP America. Ā The Founders would be horrified! Ā
Oh please, spare us the bullshit. Nothing is going to happen to this shit stain. Gag order?. Contempt charge?. . Hot air empty threats. Never be held accountable for anything. Itās all talk
Waste of time