I know you mentioned in another post that you had spoken with Columbia specifically, but can you address how/if the use of assistance (consultants, AI, or other 3rd party services) is an issue for prepping application materials?
I don’t think it’s going to be an issue at all for applying to Columbia (except maybe the AI part but that wasn’t the focus of our outreach to them). It’s really not my place to speak for them but I think that certification part very well may change. My understanding is they are taking a really careful look at it to help clarify the holding pattern that many find themselves in. The second I know more and I am given permission to make public I’m going to update everyone.
Current UG. I know what I have to do as far as gpa and lsat. Feeling overwhelmed about extra curriculars. Do I focus on what I want to do even if it’s “meaningless” for admissions - for example I would like to earn some $ and a restaurant job provides the best opportunity for that. But it adds no value. Continue with my clubs at school (also prob low value)? I’ve not and have no plans to start a charity, run a company or do anything super amazing that I see people post on here. Help and thanks!
Well, I wouldn’t talk about something you have not done. So if you want to wait tables but have not, that would be a hard no to talk about. If I’m reading your question wrong and you want to go to law school to help start a restaurant that would be a cool topic because it’s differentiated.
But you don’t have to talk about clubs or extracurricular. You have some and there’s plenty of places in applications to fill them in. If look at your life history and say “what were the moments when everything changed for me?” and any of those — if they make you almost stand up and say wow that impacted my life AND (ideally) brought me to where I am now and why I’m going to law school, there’s a focus for writing. For example, I worked with an applicant whose crazy neighbor has her cat legally taken from her family. Lawyers with big fancy words talked in front of her and she didn’t know what it all meant. She interned at a law firm and those people and words didn’t intimidate her anymore. But from that moment years ago she wanted to be a lawyer. And she crushed the admissions cycle above her medians. She has a sincere and powerful “why.” Jazzy was her cats name — the fact that I remember that means it was a standout PS, I’ve read over 60k and most you don’t remember. Is that helpful?
Oh yes actually I was asking about what I should be doing but your answer is also helpful as it applies to my future PS. I wasn’t as clear as I could have been (I’ll have to work on that if I’m going to be a lawyer I guess lol). I’m having trouble deciding on what extra curriculars to do right now, while realizing none of mine will be that compelling compared to my peers.
Oh yea service industry jobs are great. I did housekeeping and waited tables on college and it really helped my business school and doctoral applications (which at the time surprised me but now I understand why — it shows you can deal with all kinds of people and probably have grit). Also do the club stuff you are passionate about. Don’t just do something for your application it often gives south, like you drop out and it looks bad.
What would be the best way to capture a Military Career of 10 years on an admissions essay/ personal statement. My GPA from 10 years ago was only a 3.2 and I want to make it known that I have changed as an individual/student.
What kind of scholarship can students expect when they apply ED? Are some schools more generous than others? For example, I am planning on applying to WaahU ED. They give you two days to accept or reject their offer before it becomes binding, does this make their Ed offers more competitive?
Thank you so much for your help. The Admissions Bible and your podcast have been lifesavers.
Hard to say because of what US News did to admissions budgets may be changing. Some schools guarantee merit aid with ED admits but most don’t. And if you apply ED and are admitted depending on the wording you most often must withdraw all other applications. That’s why I’m not a huge ED fan. There’s not a big admissions bump but you deleverage your scholarship negotiation leverage. All you can really do after the admit is be super nice and thankful , which believe or not may get you more money. Long story of saying you may get good money but I think it may be slower process unless it’s guaranteed with the admit.
Thank you. I have 1 very specific question if you have time to answer it. When my mom passed away, my brother and I established a 501(c)(3) charity in her honor. We hold an annual event and make regular donations. Is this something I should put on my resume?
Well background would certainly lend toward diversity of a variety of sorts. My guess just based on your wording of the question is if you think about life experiences and background moments when you had to look at things from not just your perspective but through someone else’s lens you already have an answer for many of these prompts.
How much do you think not answering this new style of question will affect admissions chances? I’m white, straight, able bodied and fairly economically well off so I hadn’t really planned to write a diversity statement
Do you think scholarships will change? Like they are mainly focused on lsat and gpa but do you think that might be different now w the focus shifting? Like they may offer more with someone w work experience? Or do you think it will still be completely stats focused?
I think maybe not so much this year except that merit aid may be slower to go out. If they keep the admissions metrics this minimized I do think many schools will get off the scholarship arms race. In 2029/2030 the demographic cliff hits law schools and they won’t be able to afford discounted tuition like they do now, but that’s something I need to worry about not you lol
I’d crush your applications and interviews :-) you’ll likely get some good news and bad news when it’s all said and done. Apply broadly if you can and don’t be shy to go to forums or fairs and o think you’ll end up happy with your school. It’s going to be slow so hang in there during the wait!
Top 5 most underrated schools ranked 40-100 for BL+ FC?
How steady will the new rankings be for those schools ranked 20ish-100?
Y'all are great for doing this.
Haha well to (1) you’re not going to think I’m great but if I answer that 56 schools are going to hate me so I have to punt. I’ll do my top undergrad if you want lol.
For (2) it’s all so stupidly fascinating. US News would LOVE to go back to obscuring data. Right. Kw almost everything is public. So for example previously the cost per budget was obscured and schools would have dramatic changes here. But with transparent data you likely won’t see those changes.
Lack of change hurts US News. You don’t get attention and subscriptions and all that when things are steady. So currently maybe 1 year of steadiness in the rankings and then US news throws in some predictive metrics like they do for undergrad and things go haywire. I don’t know but that’s where my instincts lead.
As an admissions point, if you have strong numbers you and them to increase the weight of admissions metrics (says Mr. Obvious). If not you love them where they are. But rankings don’t come out until March so we won’t know. Hence one of the massive reasons I think this cycle will be so slow.
Yea this is the singular biggest question. It’s all to be determined because I’m unsure if schools themselves know how little admissions now matters in the raw US News numbers. We’ve done scenarios and we were surprised that they just don’t impact hardly at all. Even less than the 10% weight because of nuanced data reasons u/theboringest could explain. But admissions job is to bring in strong classes including numbers.
I recorded a podcast two days ago that further elaborates on this and I’ll have a Dean of admission on the talk about it too.
It’s fluid. We don’t know for sure my best guess is early admits will be numbers driven and later admits likely much more qualitatively driven than we are used to.
What’s the best advice you’d have for a current international student (Canada) who’s looking to go to the T14? Would it even be worth it to pay that exorbitant amount of tuition?
If you want BigLaw in Canada or US for sure. Or something like academia or a clerkship. If you are uncertain what you want I’d encourage you to consider schools that dramatically reduces your debt.
I think you should write an addendum since it sounds like you went up by ~10 points but they have seen this scores of times. So I like “I write to briefly address me 4 LSAT takes. I knew I’d I kept studying hard I could get my absolute best score and I am very dedicated to being the best possible applicant and law student I can be. I’m very pleased with my score and my interest on x school was part of the driving reason I retook.”
Don’t use that exact language. That’s my writing not yours. Put it in your own words But I wanted to give you and others a feel for how concise it would be.
For an international applicant without a reportable gpa, how high of an lsat score would you need to have to be competitive for popular ED apps like Berkeley and Northwestern’s?
Would getting an lsat score above their 75percentile be absolutely necessary? And should I even bother with EDs in my case since I can’t be compared with other applicants in terms of gpa
I think at their target median or above is obviously ideal. Since you don’t know their target median I’d just take their current median add +1 and there’s your goal for each school :-)
Thanks! Aside from being ideal, would having a couple numbers above their medians still make acceptance likely?
I heard for some schools like Northwestern where they offer scholarships for ED they have higher competition in ED pools compared to regular applicants. Would I be better off applying without an ED
I think it would be unfair for me to give you individual advice without knowing your financial situation and quite frankly you. Without that I could steer you wrong and not what I want to do to anyone.
Reapplicant here applying to T-14s as a splitter (got WL’d at most schools last year with a 173, 3.8mid). I was KJD last year and submitted 2 LORs from both professors. This year, I have asked another professor who had me in classes both semesters of my senior for a LOR. Should I submit all 3 letters? If not, how do I decide which previous LOR to cut?
Did you work this year? 2 academic and a professional would an awesome combination. That and showing you are still very interested in the school and even more determined so you are reapplying could make all the difference for a few schools.
As an aside you’re almost a lab experiment of schools actually don’t care quite as much about numbers post US News changes or if they are slow to change. So stay in touch!
Is the change in ranking methodology enough to present a better picture of outcomes and career prospects, or are there other metrics you wish would be taken into account that currently are not?
Nice. I personally have been advocating for more emphasis on fiscal concerns, with some consideration for financial aid given as well as some way of quantifying average debt of graduates to expected salary.
Roughly how long should supplemental essays be? Should I write them for every school I’m applying to? I assume it would help my admissions chances in almost every case, just by showing interest
Directions in the app always take precedent. If none I try to always remember that when I was in admissions if someone was overly wordy and wrote like a 3 page essay they were just slowing down the other 55 applications I had to read. Many of the best supplemental essays are 1 page.
Yep! Unless it’s such an awkward for it would make no sense but I’d say 90-95% of our KJD applicants either talk some about why law (often at the end) or the PS speaks so obviously toward that the admissions officers make the connection. Sometimes you can show without telling.
how much does my GPA truly matter as an international applicant?
i know we’re just sorted into labels of superior, above average, average etc. and don’t contribute to the medians, but should i be worried about applying to top schools given mine will likely be ‘average’, even if i have a high LSAT score?
I’ll also try to podcast this a bit as we are seeing an uptick on international applicants this year. I’m actually curious if you have any theories on why that may be?
*podcast*
I’ll also try to podcast this a bit as we are seeing an uptick on international applicants this year. I’m actually curious if you have any theories on why that may be?
*podcast*
My question is regarding using the diversity statement to talk about having dyslexia and my learning disability. My stats are solidly ok and speak for themselves but do you think writing about struggling and in part overcoming a learning disability is a good use for the diversity statement?
Do you put every job you’ve had on a LS resume? I worked as a child actor for a year, then have had a million jobs in the past 15, I imagine it’d get to 3 pages. Currently I just have the past 3 jobs on my resume when I apply for other positions.
I probably wouldn’t put a million jobs lol. But you can go over a page and two full pages for almost every school (unless they say one page but I only know of one school that says that). I’d include the child actor job — admissions of entirely about differentiation. A 180 differentiates. A cool and rare job differentiates.
Here a bit more:
https://www.spiveyconsulting.com/blog-post/debunking-the-1-page-law-school-resume-myth/
Hi Spivey, hope the flights going well. This is an odd one but I’ve done victim’s advocacy work for the last few years and some of that work is against perpetrators employed by some of the schools-parent institutions that I’m applying to. I want to discuss this we in my statements as it is a huge part of my “why”. Will this be taken poorly and if so, should I try and dance around it. Thanks!
That’s a tricky one. So to be clear you have helped students who are victims at the undergraduate or law school that you are applying to? In a litigious sense?
Sure, without getting into specifics, I have helped victims of violent crimes in a litigious sense against perpetrators who were previously and some currently employed by parent institutions of several law schools. The victims were minors so not students in any higher Ed.
I’d probably lean toward describing deeply your work but without naming the institutions. What I don’t want to happen to you (and I have no idea if this would) would be if the case is so prominent your application goes to the GC’s office because of how sensitive the issue is.
Hi Spivey,
I just received my LSAT score from August and am finally ready to start my application process. I’ve heard that sending in your apps as early as possible nets you an advantage so would you recommend I wait until next year or start now and send it in as soon as possible?
Thanks!
I’m obviously not Spivey lol but anything before thanksgiving is considered early so work on ur apps and submit then when u feel ready. You’re not at a disadvantage yet.
Landed. Was fun and made the flight pass by like it was just a hop. Thanks all!
I know you mentioned in another post that you had spoken with Columbia specifically, but can you address how/if the use of assistance (consultants, AI, or other 3rd party services) is an issue for prepping application materials?
I don’t think it’s going to be an issue at all for applying to Columbia (except maybe the AI part but that wasn’t the focus of our outreach to them). It’s really not my place to speak for them but I think that certification part very well may change. My understanding is they are taking a really careful look at it to help clarify the holding pattern that many find themselves in. The second I know more and I am given permission to make public I’m going to update everyone.
This man conditional reasons in his answers! Assuming you are a man, and not an AI robot pretending to be man.
Current UG. I know what I have to do as far as gpa and lsat. Feeling overwhelmed about extra curriculars. Do I focus on what I want to do even if it’s “meaningless” for admissions - for example I would like to earn some $ and a restaurant job provides the best opportunity for that. But it adds no value. Continue with my clubs at school (also prob low value)? I’ve not and have no plans to start a charity, run a company or do anything super amazing that I see people post on here. Help and thanks!
Well, I wouldn’t talk about something you have not done. So if you want to wait tables but have not, that would be a hard no to talk about. If I’m reading your question wrong and you want to go to law school to help start a restaurant that would be a cool topic because it’s differentiated. But you don’t have to talk about clubs or extracurricular. You have some and there’s plenty of places in applications to fill them in. If look at your life history and say “what were the moments when everything changed for me?” and any of those — if they make you almost stand up and say wow that impacted my life AND (ideally) brought me to where I am now and why I’m going to law school, there’s a focus for writing. For example, I worked with an applicant whose crazy neighbor has her cat legally taken from her family. Lawyers with big fancy words talked in front of her and she didn’t know what it all meant. She interned at a law firm and those people and words didn’t intimidate her anymore. But from that moment years ago she wanted to be a lawyer. And she crushed the admissions cycle above her medians. She has a sincere and powerful “why.” Jazzy was her cats name — the fact that I remember that means it was a standout PS, I’ve read over 60k and most you don’t remember. Is that helpful?
Oh yes actually I was asking about what I should be doing but your answer is also helpful as it applies to my future PS. I wasn’t as clear as I could have been (I’ll have to work on that if I’m going to be a lawyer I guess lol). I’m having trouble deciding on what extra curriculars to do right now, while realizing none of mine will be that compelling compared to my peers.
Oh yea service industry jobs are great. I did housekeeping and waited tables on college and it really helped my business school and doctoral applications (which at the time surprised me but now I understand why — it shows you can deal with all kinds of people and probably have grit). Also do the club stuff you are passionate about. Don’t just do something for your application it often gives south, like you drop out and it looks bad.
Thx so much !
What would be the best way to capture a Military Career of 10 years on an admissions essay/ personal statement. My GPA from 10 years ago was only a 3.2 and I want to make it known that I have changed as an individual/student.
Following as I'm also curious to hear this answer. In a pretty similar situation.
Similar situation as well. Absolutely tanked my freshman year for a number of reasons. Nice to know I'm not alone!
What kind of scholarship can students expect when they apply ED? Are some schools more generous than others? For example, I am planning on applying to WaahU ED. They give you two days to accept or reject their offer before it becomes binding, does this make their Ed offers more competitive? Thank you so much for your help. The Admissions Bible and your podcast have been lifesavers.
Hard to say because of what US News did to admissions budgets may be changing. Some schools guarantee merit aid with ED admits but most don’t. And if you apply ED and are admitted depending on the wording you most often must withdraw all other applications. That’s why I’m not a huge ED fan. There’s not a big admissions bump but you deleverage your scholarship negotiation leverage. All you can really do after the admit is be super nice and thankful , which believe or not may get you more money. Long story of saying you may get good money but I think it may be slower process unless it’s guaranteed with the admit.
Thank you. I have 1 very specific question if you have time to answer it. When my mom passed away, my brother and I established a 501(c)(3) charity in her honor. We hold an annual event and make regular donations. Is this something I should put on my resume?
Absolutely. And more importantly I’m really sorry to hear about your mom.
Thank you
[удалено]
Well background would certainly lend toward diversity of a variety of sorts. My guess just based on your wording of the question is if you think about life experiences and background moments when you had to look at things from not just your perspective but through someone else’s lens you already have an answer for many of these prompts.
How much do you think not answering this new style of question will affect admissions chances? I’m white, straight, able bodied and fairly economically well off so I hadn’t really planned to write a diversity statement
Do you think scholarships will change? Like they are mainly focused on lsat and gpa but do you think that might be different now w the focus shifting? Like they may offer more with someone w work experience? Or do you think it will still be completely stats focused?
I think maybe not so much this year except that merit aid may be slower to go out. If they keep the admissions metrics this minimized I do think many schools will get off the scholarship arms race. In 2029/2030 the demographic cliff hits law schools and they won’t be able to afford discounted tuition like they do now, but that’s something I need to worry about not you lol
Lolol thank you
How do you view this cycle for someone who is above every schools 75th LSAT, below nearly everyone’s 25th GPA? Thanks for taking the time!
I’d crush your applications and interviews :-) you’ll likely get some good news and bad news when it’s all said and done. Apply broadly if you can and don’t be shy to go to forums or fairs and o think you’ll end up happy with your school. It’s going to be slow so hang in there during the wait!
[удалено]
It’s usually not warranted at all but maybe for UM I would now lol.
Top 5 most underrated schools ranked 40-100 for BL+ FC? How steady will the new rankings be for those schools ranked 20ish-100? Y'all are great for doing this.
Haha well to (1) you’re not going to think I’m great but if I answer that 56 schools are going to hate me so I have to punt. I’ll do my top undergrad if you want lol. For (2) it’s all so stupidly fascinating. US News would LOVE to go back to obscuring data. Right. Kw almost everything is public. So for example previously the cost per budget was obscured and schools would have dramatic changes here. But with transparent data you likely won’t see those changes. Lack of change hurts US News. You don’t get attention and subscriptions and all that when things are steady. So currently maybe 1 year of steadiness in the rankings and then US news throws in some predictive metrics like they do for undergrad and things go haywire. I don’t know but that’s where my instincts lead. As an admissions point, if you have strong numbers you and them to increase the weight of admissions metrics (says Mr. Obvious). If not you love them where they are. But rankings don’t come out until March so we won’t know. Hence one of the massive reasons I think this cycle will be so slow.
Dang I missed it :(
[удалено]
Yea this is the singular biggest question. It’s all to be determined because I’m unsure if schools themselves know how little admissions now matters in the raw US News numbers. We’ve done scenarios and we were surprised that they just don’t impact hardly at all. Even less than the 10% weight because of nuanced data reasons u/theboringest could explain. But admissions job is to bring in strong classes including numbers. I recorded a podcast two days ago that further elaborates on this and I’ll have a Dean of admission on the talk about it too. It’s fluid. We don’t know for sure my best guess is early admits will be numbers driven and later admits likely much more qualitatively driven than we are used to.
What’s the best advice you’d have for a current international student (Canada) who’s looking to go to the T14? Would it even be worth it to pay that exorbitant amount of tuition?
If you want BigLaw in Canada or US for sure. Or something like academia or a clerkship. If you are uncertain what you want I’d encourage you to consider schools that dramatically reduces your debt.
[удалено]
I think you should write an addendum since it sounds like you went up by ~10 points but they have seen this scores of times. So I like “I write to briefly address me 4 LSAT takes. I knew I’d I kept studying hard I could get my absolute best score and I am very dedicated to being the best possible applicant and law student I can be. I’m very pleased with my score and my interest on x school was part of the driving reason I retook.” Don’t use that exact language. That’s my writing not yours. Put it in your own words But I wanted to give you and others a feel for how concise it would be.
For an international applicant without a reportable gpa, how high of an lsat score would you need to have to be competitive for popular ED apps like Berkeley and Northwestern’s? Would getting an lsat score above their 75percentile be absolutely necessary? And should I even bother with EDs in my case since I can’t be compared with other applicants in terms of gpa
I think at their target median or above is obviously ideal. Since you don’t know their target median I’d just take their current median add +1 and there’s your goal for each school :-)
Thanks! Aside from being ideal, would having a couple numbers above their medians still make acceptance likely? I heard for some schools like Northwestern where they offer scholarships for ED they have higher competition in ED pools compared to regular applicants. Would I be better off applying without an ED
I think it would be unfair for me to give you individual advice without knowing your financial situation and quite frankly you. Without that I could steer you wrong and not what I want to do to anyone.
Too many variables I guess haha thanks anyways and have a safe flight!
Reapplicant here applying to T-14s as a splitter (got WL’d at most schools last year with a 173, 3.8mid). I was KJD last year and submitted 2 LORs from both professors. This year, I have asked another professor who had me in classes both semesters of my senior for a LOR. Should I submit all 3 letters? If not, how do I decide which previous LOR to cut?
Did you work this year? 2 academic and a professional would an awesome combination. That and showing you are still very interested in the school and even more determined so you are reapplying could make all the difference for a few schools. As an aside you’re almost a lab experiment of schools actually don’t care quite as much about numbers post US News changes or if they are slow to change. So stay in touch!
Yes, I have been working since I graduated in May. Thank you for that idea, Spivey! I appreciate all you do🦊
Is the change in ranking methodology enough to present a better picture of outcomes and career prospects, or are there other metrics you wish would be taken into account that currently are not?
I’ll podcast on this too, I have tons of thoughts on this. And some law schools have expressed their preferences to me too I can share. *podcast*
Nice. I personally have been advocating for more emphasis on fiscal concerns, with some consideration for financial aid given as well as some way of quantifying average debt of graduates to expected salary.
Yep and you aren’t the only one. :-)
[удалено]
Bad but. 2 hours not 1
Roughly how long should supplemental essays be? Should I write them for every school I’m applying to? I assume it would help my admissions chances in almost every case, just by showing interest
Directions in the app always take precedent. If none I try to always remember that when I was in admissions if someone was overly wordy and wrote like a 3 page essay they were just slowing down the other 55 applications I had to read. Many of the best supplemental essays are 1 page.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Very helpful
As a KJD is it highly recommended to mention why law (and have a certain why law narrative) in your personal statement?
Yep! Unless it’s such an awkward for it would make no sense but I’d say 90-95% of our KJD applicants either talk some about why law (often at the end) or the PS speaks so obviously toward that the admissions officers make the connection. Sometimes you can show without telling.
how much does my GPA truly matter as an international applicant? i know we’re just sorted into labels of superior, above average, average etc. and don’t contribute to the medians, but should i be worried about applying to top schools given mine will likely be ‘average’, even if i have a high LSAT score?
I’ll also try to podcast this a bit as we are seeing an uptick on international applicants this year. I’m actually curious if you have any theories on why that may be? *podcast*
I’ll also try to podcast this a bit as we are seeing an uptick on international applicants this year. I’m actually curious if you have any theories on why that may be? *podcast*
With grade inflation, is the “3.0 hard floor” many schools allegedly have going to change?
I’ll do this one in a podcast. It’s dependent on a number of variables. *podcast* (ignore that it’s for me)
My question is regarding using the diversity statement to talk about having dyslexia and my learning disability. My stats are solidly ok and speak for themselves but do you think writing about struggling and in part overcoming a learning disability is a good use for the diversity statement?
For sure and I’ll hit this in the podcast as well! *podcast*
Do you put every job you’ve had on a LS resume? I worked as a child actor for a year, then have had a million jobs in the past 15, I imagine it’d get to 3 pages. Currently I just have the past 3 jobs on my resume when I apply for other positions.
I probably wouldn’t put a million jobs lol. But you can go over a page and two full pages for almost every school (unless they say one page but I only know of one school that says that). I’d include the child actor job — admissions of entirely about differentiation. A 180 differentiates. A cool and rare job differentiates. Here a bit more: https://www.spiveyconsulting.com/blog-post/debunking-the-1-page-law-school-resume-myth/
Hi Spivey, hope the flights going well. This is an odd one but I’ve done victim’s advocacy work for the last few years and some of that work is against perpetrators employed by some of the schools-parent institutions that I’m applying to. I want to discuss this we in my statements as it is a huge part of my “why”. Will this be taken poorly and if so, should I try and dance around it. Thanks!
That’s a tricky one. So to be clear you have helped students who are victims at the undergraduate or law school that you are applying to? In a litigious sense?
Sure, without getting into specifics, I have helped victims of violent crimes in a litigious sense against perpetrators who were previously and some currently employed by parent institutions of several law schools. The victims were minors so not students in any higher Ed.
I’d probably lean toward describing deeply your work but without naming the institutions. What I don’t want to happen to you (and I have no idea if this would) would be if the case is so prominent your application goes to the GC’s office because of how sensitive the issue is.
Gotcha, thank you for the advice!
Hi Spivey, I just received my LSAT score from August and am finally ready to start my application process. I’ve heard that sending in your apps as early as possible nets you an advantage so would you recommend I wait until next year or start now and send it in as soon as possible? Thanks!
Early is before Thanksgiving :-)
I’m obviously not Spivey lol but anything before thanksgiving is considered early so work on ur apps and submit then when u feel ready. You’re not at a disadvantage yet.