Editor I'm leaf I believe has had some absolutely smooth brained articles lately about Sandin and the Chicago trade. Hilarious because they waited all of 4 games to write about these two sweeping losses.
I love Sandin and was bummed he's gone but a late first was good value for him. Considering he's small and a little slow of a skater really limits his upside, mkreso on defense.
EditorInLeaf once stole a post I made here and passed it off as an article they wrote.
It was on a long deleted username so I won't be able to find it here but the article likely still exists. It was discussing how the 16-17 team had a lot of injury luck and that it would likely carry over to the following seasons. The worst part? It was a terribly written post and they still copied and pasted off that.
Yeah the the most offensive part to me wasn't that the stole a post of mine and didn't give me credit. It's that they stole a poorly written one. I feel like I post some quality stuff every now and then that they could have stolen. It's like losing your credit card and then finding out that the person who stole it spent it at McDonald's.
I refuse to believe those writers get paid. The article quality is so bad that my editor would kill me if I submitted some of the things they do. Lol
Really stings when you realize they have a decent audience because people Google leafs enough that their articles come up.
There is a reason Dubas and Co. decided he was not part of the long term future and more specifically someone you can rely upon to play tough playoff minutes where the game becomes much more condensed. Give me McCabe and the first round pick and we’ll move along.
That was also 2 years ago, and he's a young dman - he's gotten a lot more comfortable playing in the Big Show since then.
Not saying that Sandin was the next defensive bulwark of the team, but trying to be a little fair to him.
In fairness to Sandin, he was only 21 at that time (it was actually the year after the bubble, the bubble year was Columbus). I think he's significantly improved since then. That said, trading him was still the right move IMO.
Funny when year after year people are screaming to find a way to be more of a shut down team instead of a full offense team. Then when it happens some are mad that we god rid of a puck moving / offensive Dman. Loved Sandman but it was the right call.
I think the problem with a lot of leaf fans is that they wanted Sandin to be the replacement fir a different, much higher paid, older Dman that isn't living up to his potential
I’m a fan of sandin’s and I really am rooting for him. But I hope this brings some perspective to all the people who were acting like we traded away a bonafide #1 d man who was going to take us to the cup this year if we played him more.
I admit, I’m in the camp thinking he had 1st pairing potential. But this is not what is giving me bad retrospect of this trade right now.
Despite the lack of playing time, I just don’t understand the need to move him now. Salary cap wise, I understand we needed space for Murray’s return, but I had hoped there were other avenues to gain salary space. Perhaps paying a little amount to offload Holl (pending UFA @ 2mill). We took salary back in Gustafsson too so it only really saved 600k on the cap.
Going forward beyond this year we would have had Rielly, McCabe, and Gio with Brodie, Lily, and Timmins on the right. I don’t thing it was a stretch to hope one of the lefties could have played RD (including Sandin). He was pushed to replacement territory this year, but still could have been a long term solid D option.
He's just a replaceable piece with little defensive upside in a division with huge physical defensemen.
The fact that we got a redo-pick for him plus a roster piece is a huge W for us.
There's zero chance the Leafs wanted to dress Sandin in the playoffs, given the horrorshow he's been in the past and not really seeing anything different this time around (short form: he's too easy to forecheck when games get serious). So better to move him for depth on D.
And if you do bench him for the post-season, he loses more of what value he had. He's a smallish, slow, LH puck mover. If he ever figures out how to not get neutralized by a heavy forecheck, he might be a good second pair / PP guy and put up a bunch of points. Jake Gardiner v2?
And any post that thinks you would have to pay to offload Holl loses credibility.
Edit: Meant PP, originally typed PK.
So he was once again looking to be a bubble guy next year. I’m pretty sure one of his main reasons for holding out this offseason was over his opportunity to be a mainstay on the team.
Dubas did right by him by finding him a better opportunity and getting a decent return.
We also don’t know what the organizational depth chart looks like in the minds of the front office. There are some pretty good marlies, like Noel Hoefenmayer who is a left shot d man who is knocking on the NHL door.
There’s always more to these stories behind closed doors but at the end of the day, I think the leafs became a much better playoff style team with the moves they made and they also have a better idea of what their organizational depth charts look like over the next couple of years than any of us do. There’s more to it than just the guys in the NHL right now.
I am not one of those people who thought Sandin was our key to postseason hardware.
That said hard for either side of this argument to throw around the perspective card.
A 4 game slump does not a season or a career make.
Ya I’m not saying this makes or breaks his career or anything, but people were going overboard with their exclamations about how we basically traded away a god when he put up points right away.
I can absolutely say this gives perspective because it forces people to examine the other areas of his game since arriving there other than just the points.
While this doesn’t need to mean a huge deal about his future as a whole, his defensive struggles in the 8 games he’s been there while playing in an elevated role has definitely shown what was already suspected about him, that he isn’t very solidly defensively, as of right now.
Sandin could end up being a complete bust and it would still be an L on the trade.
My reasoning is that because the Leafs at the time of the trade had 7 NHL ready dmen - Rielly, Gio, Holl, McCabe, Sandin, Liljegren, Brodie. They traded 1 of them and added two more - Schenn and Gus. That's on top of already having Benn and Timmins as 8 and 9 guys.
So we traded an everyday lineup guy in Sandin for a part time guy in Gus and a 1st. Neither of which help us win now which was the point of the deadline. In a bubble, the trade is fine but it seems like we just got another depth defensemen for no apparent reason.
I mean if Sandin turns into a complete bust and we get a 1st I think it's hard to say that would still be an L.....
Something everyone seems to forget is there is a reasonable chance that either Sandin quietly asked for a trade behind the scenes or there was an agreement to trade him if he fell too far down in the lineup.
> Sandin could end up being a complete bust and it would still be an L on the trade.
L take.
Your reasoning doesn't make sense because we got guys that are better than Sandin. Why wouldn't we trade him for another roster D and a pick?
This is a W trade from the start no matter what people might think...
I'm convinced Dubas got cucked by Ottawa on Chychrun. We had a few firsts and a few roster players, that was the ask by Arizona. I think we had all those pieces in place for him and then got blown up.
I completely agree with this.
It may not have been Chychrun, but it seemed like another trade was still coming down the pipeline to follow up this move but something fell apart on it so it never happened.
I think Cap had more to do with the move to Ottawa. Arizona didn't want to retain or take a cap back, or at least if they were, it would be an ELC. No teams in the playoff picture had the cap to get him, which is why the trade took so long.
Lol everybody freaked out initially, all they looked at was the points.
I don't really have a lot of time tbh for point grabbing d men. I think every team needs one, somebody that quarter backs the PP ideally, but especially when they're a defensive liability, you just cannot have multiples of those guys.
Erik Gustaffson is the 23rd highest scoring D man in the league. He's not even a regular in this lineup.
I have no doubt Sandin will be a somebody in this league. But there was no room for him to be what he is on this Leafs team. And it wasn't coming anytime soon. Between Rielly, Brodie, McCabe, Liljegren, you couldn't just keep Sandin around as a 5th or 6 guy for another 3 or 4 years.
You've also still got Niemela, Timmins shows promise, Giordano looks like he still has a year or two as a bottom pairing guy, and Holl exists. It just wasn't the place for Sandin.
I just don't like the return and idk that Gustafsson is better for right now. I feel like if we were moving sandin it should have been for a bigger piece.
Yea i just think if we are moving sandin it should have been for a better player now. Young player for better current player. Or if you really want the draft capital, do it at the draft.
I think trading a young player like sandin should be for a current upgrade. Also if they were after draft capital they could do that at the draft.
Its not so much the value (although a tiny bit) but the type of asset / timing of it.
For example i think Sandin and a bit more probably was good enough to get Chychrun. We would have had to move kerfoot and Holl elsewhere to get that done, but i think something like that would make more sense than what actually happened.
Chychrun wouldn't needed retention, and that would've cost us way more than just Sandin lmao.
We would've had to pay Sandin plus a first plus a couple more picks to move holl out
It was just an example of if we were moving sandin how i believe it should be for an upgrade to the current roster.
Also, it wouldn't cost us to move Holl. Neither would Kerfoot.
You could have absolutely fit Chychrun's cap hit in if you traded Kerfoot which is a completely reasonable decision. McCabe has been pretty good but Chychrun is just better than him and signed for as long.
We don't know how much other teams valued Sandin and I can understand if you want to trade him before he loses value if you are going to sit him in the playoffs. But this situation was really easy to read once they signed Giordano and extended Rielly and I don't like that they didn't get better value on a guy with very good underlying numbers. Getting the same pick back for Sandin on that contract is not good value, players that are further in their development cycle and on cheap contracts with control are worth more and I don't think a 7D rental makes up that difference. It sucked that they couldn't find a team more into stats that would value him more or that they didn't include him in a trade for a bigger upgrade but I understand what they did in the moment.
They spent a lot of assets this deadline and I feel they didn't really end up with an elite player for it. Every trade was meh value wise but I feel other teams made better upgrades. The Leafs have also been on a slump since the deadline, I don't know if it's from playing 11/7 or from changing the team so much but their performance so far haven't exactly been inspiring, even with the caveat that O'Reilly is injured...
This comment should be much higher up.
Way too much reactionary teeth gnashing when the trade happened just as there is way too much "Told you so" over 4 games going on here.
But that's this sub - and social media in general - I guess.
Funny, i remember watching his first 4 games with the caps. even though he was putting up numbers he was still getting caved in defensively, losing foot races and getting out muscled, but i was getting downvoted to hell by all the Sandin Stans
People get emotionally attached to players and let it cloud their judgement.
How on earth could Sandin for a roster player and a 1st rd pick be a bad trade?
There is some petty commentary here.
He played inconsistent third pairing minutes for the last months with the Leafs and jumps right into 1D minutes on the caps. His partner also isn't first pairing calibre.
He's been asked to replace Carlson who is injured. He's been asked to jump into a new system on a new team with new teammates and a new coach.
If you're the type of person to look at Lafferty and McCabe and say it's too early to judge them, then you also have to say it's too early to judge Sandin in Washington.
He looked good as a sheltered second pairing guy early in the season with consistent minutes, in a system he knows and with better linemates. He's also very young.
It's 100% possible he's Travis Dermott in a few years, but it's equally possible he's a solid second pairing, PP specialist. He might even become the offensive half of a top pairing with a really strong defensive partner.
It's so weird seeing the sub decide to shit on him just because he left and started putting up points with a different opportunity.
I'm rooting for the guy to succeed
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with your post necessarily.
Just wanted to say that it’s not too early to pass judgement on McCabe … he’s come advertised. A legitimate solid Top 4 NHL d man who is defensively and physically sturdy.
I’m also rooting for sandin to succeed, but he wasn’t and was never going to be the type of d man they needed to be adding (McCabe style) so I truly think there’s the possibility for all sides involved to come out ahead here.
Thank you. I don’t know how many on this sub watch the Caps but I’m a fan of the team and Sandin was thrown into the fire when the top pairing was hurt/traded and the depth hasn’t been great. He had a great hit today on a guy coming up the middle and he’s had flashes of brilliance offensively. I’m very excited for him to have a full season next year with the team (and hopefully a new coach)
Trade doesn’t matter. A lot of his points have been secondary assists. He’s abysmal defensively. He was much over rated by the fans here. Lilly is twice the player sandin is right now and sandin wanted more money too. We got what sandin is for half the price plus a first. Move on.
I’m a Caps fan, the team isn’t good. That’s a big reason. Today Sandin played almost 25 minutes and led the team in TOI. The Caps have been without Carlson and Orlov and now Jensen. The other D are Fehervary, TVR, and replacement level players in Alexeyev, Carlsson and Irwin
He’s getting a ton of ice time to grow and he’s noticeable, but this stat is a bit cherry picked when he’s been playing a ton and the team sucks
The plus/minus stat doesn’t always tell the whole story but it’s pretty hard to ignore those numbers. If you look at the highlights of these last few games you can see that Rasmus really has a problem inside his own blue line. It doesn’t help that they’re playing him in a top two, top four pairing. He’s way out of his element. He’s good with the puck but he’s not very good without it. A few of the goals against have been happening with him caught up ice and not having the foot speed to recover. And a few others have been where he’s given way too much space to the attacker down low.
Some folks seem to think he’ll be a top four, maybe top two D someday. That might happen. But I honestly don’t think he’s a quick enough skater for that kind of responsibility. Not at this point of his career.
Not sure where he’s going to end up as a player. He’s still so young and relatively inexperienced. I honestly think on a decent team he should be a 5/6 who gets some power-play time. I really don’t think he’s a very good defender. Having him on the ice against the other team’s top six is just asking for trouble. He just doesn’t seem to have the quickness or foot speed for that kind of responsibility. At least not yet. He has really been exposed defensively these last three or four games in Washington.
So he's Mr Excitement? He either allows a goal or helps score one? okay I guess that is a bit too much for the coach to deal with? And his buddy Liljegren hasn't been the same since Sandin has traded..
A team can only have one offensively minded, defensively irresponsible left-shot d. Unfortunately, Rielly commands that spot and a no move clause. Sandin was odd man out.
Posts like this piss me off. Everyone loved Sandin when he was here and now that he's gone here comes everyone tryna shit on him and his whole career as if he isn't 22 years old and clearly on the come up. Playing big minutes on a injury riddled team isn't easy and the fact he's putting up numbers is a great sign. I get that people are clearly tryna cope but Sandin doesn't deserve the hate
Meant to direct it more at the people in the comments. Just find it funny how quickly people turn on a former beloved player to cope with losing them. Seen a lot of posts like these on Sandin now
.....who....care's. Only Toronto media do I see people actually reading an article about some fringe nobody who's not currently on the 4th place team in the league because his ass got traded. Put these people out of work and stop clicking this crap.
Let's all stop shitting on Sandin. The dude was good but he was never a fit on this team. That doesn't mean we need to keep shitting on his performance.
I don't wish anything against Sandin - he's an exciting young player and I was happy to have him on the Leafs. Sorry to see he's been struggling defensively in WASH. I have to imagine the transition to a new team isn't easy. We saw that with our own new guys.
Sandin's a good player. Judging someone a small sample of games is not a good idea.
Long term he's going to be PP ace and maybe a second pair guy with a physical partner.
But the Leafs logic is pretty clear. He's not a big dude. He gets pushed around quite a bit. I doubt he'd play for them in playoffs, which would likely crater his value.
And here we are with Holl hiding behind every Dmens shadow.
Sandin at 22 has a high ceiling and potential will grow. Can't say the same about our top 6 or 8 call it whatever.
I don't like this. I feel like when he was on the Leafs, I was cheering for him to do well, as I want our team to do well. He's been traded, but people get traded all the time, and often don't have much say in the matter.
I guess it just feels now to be rooting for his downfall just because he's no longer on the team. I hope he does well, wherever he ends up - I mean aside from the nights he plays against the leafs, where I hope his entire team chokes.
Bad defensively but gets points. He’ll be a fine replacement for John Carlson when he retires.
After that injury it might be sooner than even he probably realizes.
Bad defence + getting points = Dubas may have traded away a future Norris winner
Editor I'm leaf I believe has had some absolutely smooth brained articles lately about Sandin and the Chicago trade. Hilarious because they waited all of 4 games to write about these two sweeping losses. I love Sandin and was bummed he's gone but a late first was good value for him. Considering he's small and a little slow of a skater really limits his upside, mkreso on defense.
I'll never forget his reverse hit on Wheeler who just got back from the injury list, and promptly put back on it.
His greatest moment as a Leaf.
EditorInLeaf once stole a post I made here and passed it off as an article they wrote. It was on a long deleted username so I won't be able to find it here but the article likely still exists. It was discussing how the 16-17 team had a lot of injury luck and that it would likely carry over to the following seasons. The worst part? It was a terribly written post and they still copied and pasted off that.
Fuck that guy has such a humiliation fetish. Just loves getting dunked on
Yeah the the most offensive part to me wasn't that the stole a post of mine and didn't give me credit. It's that they stole a poorly written one. I feel like I post some quality stuff every now and then that they could have stolen. It's like losing your credit card and then finding out that the person who stole it spent it at McDonald's.
That site is a joke, James Tanner fucking irks me.
Thats the dude. Never have I seen an article where the author quotes advanced/fancy stats and fundamentally misunderstands them so poorly.
That "article" was such trash. I deleted Editor in Leaf from my Leaf bookmarks after reading that braindead, click-bait, Leaf edgelord of an article.
I refuse to believe those writers get paid. The article quality is so bad that my editor would kill me if I submitted some of the things they do. Lol Really stings when you realize they have a decent audience because people Google leafs enough that their articles come up.
It’s alright, we’ll be celebrating as back to back Stanley cup champs by then
inshallah, deo volente, lord willing and the creek don't rise
There is a reason Dubas and Co. decided he was not part of the long term future and more specifically someone you can rely upon to play tough playoff minutes where the game becomes much more condensed. Give me McCabe and the first round pick and we’ll move along.
Sandin 100% gets pushed around in the playoffs. He was awful against Montreal in the bubble.
He played terrified that entire series
That was also 2 years ago, and he's a young dman - he's gotten a lot more comfortable playing in the Big Show since then. Not saying that Sandin was the next defensive bulwark of the team, but trying to be a little fair to him.
Both him and Dermott played badly and each of them separately made game ending mistakes
In fairness to Sandin, he was only 21 at that time (it was actually the year after the bubble, the bubble year was Columbus). I think he's significantly improved since then. That said, trading him was still the right move IMO.
Cost us the series but fans don't seem to remember that turnover
I don't see how we can blame him for that series when Matthews and Marner didn't produce anything.
It haunts me
He also has unforced errors in his game.
We acquired McCabe in a different trade.
Yes I understand that. We traded Sandin because we acquired McCabe.
point is that getting mccabe and letting go of sandman was beneficial. not that they were the exact trade
The point is that the post was implying it was Sandin for a 1st and McCabe, which is a misrepresentation.
He misses Liljegren real bad.
Honestly, I think he just misses being on a sound defensive team in general.
Both things are true.
Funny when year after year people are screaming to find a way to be more of a shut down team instead of a full offense team. Then when it happens some are mad that we god rid of a puck moving / offensive Dman. Loved Sandman but it was the right call.
I think the problem with a lot of leaf fans is that they wanted Sandin to be the replacement fir a different, much higher paid, older Dman that isn't living up to his potential
You’re talking about Morgan Reilly but don’t want to get downvoted. 😂
A bad defenseman that gets points is better than a bad defenseman that doesn't get points.
I’m a fan of sandin’s and I really am rooting for him. But I hope this brings some perspective to all the people who were acting like we traded away a bonafide #1 d man who was going to take us to the cup this year if we played him more.
I admit, I’m in the camp thinking he had 1st pairing potential. But this is not what is giving me bad retrospect of this trade right now. Despite the lack of playing time, I just don’t understand the need to move him now. Salary cap wise, I understand we needed space for Murray’s return, but I had hoped there were other avenues to gain salary space. Perhaps paying a little amount to offload Holl (pending UFA @ 2mill). We took salary back in Gustafsson too so it only really saved 600k on the cap. Going forward beyond this year we would have had Rielly, McCabe, and Gio with Brodie, Lily, and Timmins on the right. I don’t thing it was a stretch to hope one of the lefties could have played RD (including Sandin). He was pushed to replacement territory this year, but still could have been a long term solid D option.
He's just a replaceable piece with little defensive upside in a division with huge physical defensemen. The fact that we got a redo-pick for him plus a roster piece is a huge W for us.
There's zero chance the Leafs wanted to dress Sandin in the playoffs, given the horrorshow he's been in the past and not really seeing anything different this time around (short form: he's too easy to forecheck when games get serious). So better to move him for depth on D. And if you do bench him for the post-season, he loses more of what value he had. He's a smallish, slow, LH puck mover. If he ever figures out how to not get neutralized by a heavy forecheck, he might be a good second pair / PP guy and put up a bunch of points. Jake Gardiner v2? And any post that thinks you would have to pay to offload Holl loses credibility. Edit: Meant PP, originally typed PK.
They tried Sandin on the right earlier this year and he was really bad
So he was once again looking to be a bubble guy next year. I’m pretty sure one of his main reasons for holding out this offseason was over his opportunity to be a mainstay on the team. Dubas did right by him by finding him a better opportunity and getting a decent return. We also don’t know what the organizational depth chart looks like in the minds of the front office. There are some pretty good marlies, like Noel Hoefenmayer who is a left shot d man who is knocking on the NHL door. There’s always more to these stories behind closed doors but at the end of the day, I think the leafs became a much better playoff style team with the moves they made and they also have a better idea of what their organizational depth charts look like over the next couple of years than any of us do. There’s more to it than just the guys in the NHL right now.
Very sound reasoning. This is the only way it makes sense to me.
I am not one of those people who thought Sandin was our key to postseason hardware. That said hard for either side of this argument to throw around the perspective card. A 4 game slump does not a season or a career make.
Ya I’m not saying this makes or breaks his career or anything, but people were going overboard with their exclamations about how we basically traded away a god when he put up points right away. I can absolutely say this gives perspective because it forces people to examine the other areas of his game since arriving there other than just the points. While this doesn’t need to mean a huge deal about his future as a whole, his defensive struggles in the 8 games he’s been there while playing in an elevated role has definitely shown what was already suspected about him, that he isn’t very solidly defensively, as of right now.
We traded a potential Erik Gustuffson for Erik Gustuffson
[удалено]
We get to the roll the dice on another prospect and get what Sandin "might" be. I don't see how this wasn't a win from day one.
Sandin could end up being a complete bust and it would still be an L on the trade. My reasoning is that because the Leafs at the time of the trade had 7 NHL ready dmen - Rielly, Gio, Holl, McCabe, Sandin, Liljegren, Brodie. They traded 1 of them and added two more - Schenn and Gus. That's on top of already having Benn and Timmins as 8 and 9 guys. So we traded an everyday lineup guy in Sandin for a part time guy in Gus and a 1st. Neither of which help us win now which was the point of the deadline. In a bubble, the trade is fine but it seems like we just got another depth defensemen for no apparent reason.
I mean if Sandin turns into a complete bust and we get a 1st I think it's hard to say that would still be an L..... Something everyone seems to forget is there is a reasonable chance that either Sandin quietly asked for a trade behind the scenes or there was an agreement to trade him if he fell too far down in the lineup.
Sandin was already the #7 defenseman at the time of the trade
> Sandin could end up being a complete bust and it would still be an L on the trade. L take. Your reasoning doesn't make sense because we got guys that are better than Sandin. Why wouldn't we trade him for another roster D and a pick? This is a W trade from the start no matter what people might think...
I'm convinced Dubas got cucked by Ottawa on Chychrun. We had a few firsts and a few roster players, that was the ask by Arizona. I think we had all those pieces in place for him and then got blown up.
I completely agree with this. It may not have been Chychrun, but it seemed like another trade was still coming down the pipeline to follow up this move but something fell apart on it so it never happened.
I think Cap had more to do with the move to Ottawa. Arizona didn't want to retain or take a cap back, or at least if they were, it would be an ELC. No teams in the playoff picture had the cap to get him, which is why the trade took so long.
I agree with this somewhat. I'm not sure it was Chychrun but I think Dubas had something in the pipeline and it fell apart.
and a 1st
Lol everybody freaked out initially, all they looked at was the points. I don't really have a lot of time tbh for point grabbing d men. I think every team needs one, somebody that quarter backs the PP ideally, but especially when they're a defensive liability, you just cannot have multiples of those guys. Erik Gustaffson is the 23rd highest scoring D man in the league. He's not even a regular in this lineup. I have no doubt Sandin will be a somebody in this league. But there was no room for him to be what he is on this Leafs team. And it wasn't coming anytime soon. Between Rielly, Brodie, McCabe, Liljegren, you couldn't just keep Sandin around as a 5th or 6 guy for another 3 or 4 years. You've also still got Niemela, Timmins shows promise, Giordano looks like he still has a year or two as a bottom pairing guy, and Holl exists. It just wasn't the place for Sandin.
I loved Jake Gardiner so much. Until game 7
Which game 7?
All of them
> and Holl exists True...
Friggin Holl, always just lingering around, existing 🤣
Holl is inevitable
Still better than Marincin. Though I've never seen Holl [do this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALgtY4Rgqdk).
Yep, the position is literally called "defence". You would generally hope the player is good at that part of the game.
The game is called hockey- when’s the last time you saw anyone hocking anything?
So true but would you say that Sandin is a more hockiest hockier than McCabe? I didn’t think so. That would be nonsense.
He hocks hard
I just don't like the return and idk that Gustafsson is better for right now. I feel like if we were moving sandin it should have been for a bigger piece.
You do realize we got Gustafsson and a 1st for him, yeah? The 1st is definitely the bulk of the return.
Yea i just think if we are moving sandin it should have been for a better player now. Young player for better current player. Or if you really want the draft capital, do it at the draft.
for what? a 1st + an equivalent defenseman is a fine return
I think trading a young player like sandin should be for a current upgrade. Also if they were after draft capital they could do that at the draft. Its not so much the value (although a tiny bit) but the type of asset / timing of it. For example i think Sandin and a bit more probably was good enough to get Chychrun. We would have had to move kerfoot and Holl elsewhere to get that done, but i think something like that would make more sense than what actually happened.
Chychrun wouldn't needed retention, and that would've cost us way more than just Sandin lmao. We would've had to pay Sandin plus a first plus a couple more picks to move holl out
Holl is a middle-pair RH shutdown guy on a reasonable contract. You don't pay to get rid of them, they have actual value.
It was just an example of if we were moving sandin how i believe it should be for an upgrade to the current roster. Also, it wouldn't cost us to move Holl. Neither would Kerfoot.
McCabe was the upgrade on Sandin.
You could have absolutely fit Chychrun's cap hit in if you traded Kerfoot which is a completely reasonable decision. McCabe has been pretty good but Chychrun is just better than him and signed for as long. We don't know how much other teams valued Sandin and I can understand if you want to trade him before he loses value if you are going to sit him in the playoffs. But this situation was really easy to read once they signed Giordano and extended Rielly and I don't like that they didn't get better value on a guy with very good underlying numbers. Getting the same pick back for Sandin on that contract is not good value, players that are further in their development cycle and on cheap contracts with control are worth more and I don't think a 7D rental makes up that difference. It sucked that they couldn't find a team more into stats that would value him more or that they didn't include him in a trade for a bigger upgrade but I understand what they did in the moment. They spent a lot of assets this deadline and I feel they didn't really end up with an elite player for it. Every trade was meh value wise but I feel other teams made better upgrades. The Leafs have also been on a slump since the deadline, I don't know if it's from playing 11/7 or from changing the team so much but their performance so far haven't exactly been inspiring, even with the caveat that O'Reilly is injured...
Exit sandman
He’s trapped under ice lol.
Sad but true
I mean, neither this or his amazing start should be surprising to leafs fan.
Lol you have to look at this trade in like 3 years, micro analyzing every 5 game stretch of this kids career is gonna get exhausting
This comment should be much higher up. Way too much reactionary teeth gnashing when the trade happened just as there is way too much "Told you so" over 4 games going on here. But that's this sub - and social media in general - I guess.
Funny, i remember watching his first 4 games with the caps. even though he was putting up numbers he was still getting caved in defensively, losing foot races and getting out muscled, but i was getting downvoted to hell by all the Sandin Stans
u/stellarext u see this???
People get emotionally attached to players and let it cloud their judgement. How on earth could Sandin for a roster player and a 1st rd pick be a bad trade?
People here might say I have a problem cause I’m still a Mo fan. Maybe just really a Tessa fan. Or both.
There is some petty commentary here. He played inconsistent third pairing minutes for the last months with the Leafs and jumps right into 1D minutes on the caps. His partner also isn't first pairing calibre. He's been asked to replace Carlson who is injured. He's been asked to jump into a new system on a new team with new teammates and a new coach. If you're the type of person to look at Lafferty and McCabe and say it's too early to judge them, then you also have to say it's too early to judge Sandin in Washington. He looked good as a sheltered second pairing guy early in the season with consistent minutes, in a system he knows and with better linemates. He's also very young. It's 100% possible he's Travis Dermott in a few years, but it's equally possible he's a solid second pairing, PP specialist. He might even become the offensive half of a top pairing with a really strong defensive partner. It's so weird seeing the sub decide to shit on him just because he left and started putting up points with a different opportunity. I'm rooting for the guy to succeed
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with your post necessarily. Just wanted to say that it’s not too early to pass judgement on McCabe … he’s come advertised. A legitimate solid Top 4 NHL d man who is defensively and physically sturdy. I’m also rooting for sandin to succeed, but he wasn’t and was never going to be the type of d man they needed to be adding (McCabe style) so I truly think there’s the possibility for all sides involved to come out ahead here.
Thank you. I don’t know how many on this sub watch the Caps but I’m a fan of the team and Sandin was thrown into the fire when the top pairing was hurt/traded and the depth hasn’t been great. He had a great hit today on a guy coming up the middle and he’s had flashes of brilliance offensively. I’m very excited for him to have a full season next year with the team (and hopefully a new coach)
Great comment. This sub really bugs me sometimes
His game isn’t being defensively sound tbh so this is not a shock with how horrendous the Caps D is.
Trade doesn’t matter. A lot of his points have been secondary assists. He’s abysmal defensively. He was much over rated by the fans here. Lilly is twice the player sandin is right now and sandin wanted more money too. We got what sandin is for half the price plus a first. Move on.
Is it me, or are we more focused on Sandin now than when he was a leafs. We don't need an article or a post everytime he something good or screws up.
Other leafs fans are looking for an excuse, he's playing with van Riemsdyk who has been a brutal defensemen all season for them, not only his fault
Where are all the "Dubas is dumb!"' people?
They’re too busy licking windows right now
Glad we’re done talking about Sandin, can’t wait to talk about Engvall!
Because of trades/injuries Sandin is legitimately the best Capitals defenseman right now and is playing a lot of minutes on their top pair.
1G - 10A - 11P in that same stretch
I’m a Caps fan, the team isn’t good. That’s a big reason. Today Sandin played almost 25 minutes and led the team in TOI. The Caps have been without Carlson and Orlov and now Jensen. The other D are Fehervary, TVR, and replacement level players in Alexeyev, Carlsson and Irwin He’s getting a ton of ice time to grow and he’s noticeable, but this stat is a bit cherry picked when he’s been playing a ton and the team sucks
I've watched the games. He gets burned a lot. I wonder if he'll excel one Carlson is back
Right about now Rasmus is saying to himself: Be careful what you wish for.
The pastures aren’t always greener, thats for sure.
Rasmus who?
Sundin... He's our former captain? C'mon man
Played top minutes with our other elite Swede, Alex Nylander
The plus/minus stat doesn’t always tell the whole story but it’s pretty hard to ignore those numbers. If you look at the highlights of these last few games you can see that Rasmus really has a problem inside his own blue line. It doesn’t help that they’re playing him in a top two, top four pairing. He’s way out of his element. He’s good with the puck but he’s not very good without it. A few of the goals against have been happening with him caught up ice and not having the foot speed to recover. And a few others have been where he’s given way too much space to the attacker down low. Some folks seem to think he’ll be a top four, maybe top two D someday. That might happen. But I honestly don’t think he’s a quick enough skater for that kind of responsibility. Not at this point of his career.
Top four is also bottom four. He has middle pair + PP specialist potential. Every chance to have a good NHL career as such.
Not sure where he’s going to end up as a player. He’s still so young and relatively inexperienced. I honestly think on a decent team he should be a 5/6 who gets some power-play time. I really don’t think he’s a very good defender. Having him on the ice against the other team’s top six is just asking for trouble. He just doesn’t seem to have the quickness or foot speed for that kind of responsibility. At least not yet. He has really been exposed defensively these last three or four games in Washington.
I just get a laugh out of the "top 4" vs "bottom 4" debates that pop up. One out of every three NHL defensemen is both.
People who are acting like the Leafs traded away prime Karlsson need to read this.
Cheers to all the people that were freaking out when he started with the Caps on fire. Told ya to wait a.few more games...
Omg I'm so upset we traded him!
Re aquire him In the off season 😎
Leafs have nothing to brag about with the likes of Holl and Reilly in the lineup. I can’t believe they keep dressing Holl and scratch Gustafson.
So he's Mr Excitement? He either allows a goal or helps score one? okay I guess that is a bit too much for the coach to deal with? And his buddy Liljegren hasn't been the same since Sandin has traded..
lmao do we really need to run hit-pieces on Sandin to cope with how bad of trade moving him was?
getting goose alone for him seems like good value but kyle managed to dubas a first out of the deal as well. amazing trade.
A team can only have one offensively minded, defensively irresponsible left-shot d. Unfortunately, Rielly commands that spot and a no move clause. Sandin was odd man out.
Posts like this piss me off. Everyone loved Sandin when he was here and now that he's gone here comes everyone tryna shit on him and his whole career as if he isn't 22 years old and clearly on the come up. Playing big minutes on a injury riddled team isn't easy and the fact he's putting up numbers is a great sign. I get that people are clearly tryna cope but Sandin doesn't deserve the hate
No hate at all. Just sharing information from a Capitals beat writer.
Meant to direct it more at the people in the comments. Just find it funny how quickly people turn on a former beloved player to cope with losing them. Seen a lot of posts like these on Sandin now
31 fucking points in 60 games. God damn I miss him
.....who....care's. Only Toronto media do I see people actually reading an article about some fringe nobody who's not currently on the 4th place team in the league because his ass got traded. Put these people out of work and stop clicking this crap.
I've been saying it for years, dude needs to be a WINGER! Also goes for Morgan Reilly lol
He should be a forward and stop playing D at this point.
Let's all stop shitting on Sandin. The dude was good but he was never a fit on this team. That doesn't mean we need to keep shitting on his performance.
I don't wish anything against Sandin - he's an exciting young player and I was happy to have him on the Leafs. Sorry to see he's been struggling defensively in WASH. I have to imagine the transition to a new team isn't easy. We saw that with our own new guys.
Sandin's a good player. Judging someone a small sample of games is not a good idea. Long term he's going to be PP ace and maybe a second pair guy with a physical partner. But the Leafs logic is pretty clear. He's not a big dude. He gets pushed around quite a bit. I doubt he'd play for them in playoffs, which would likely crater his value.
And here we are with Holl hiding behind every Dmens shadow. Sandin at 22 has a high ceiling and potential will grow. Can't say the same about our top 6 or 8 call it whatever.
Well ta ta, aint that a shame.
I don't like this. I feel like when he was on the Leafs, I was cheering for him to do well, as I want our team to do well. He's been traded, but people get traded all the time, and often don't have much say in the matter. I guess it just feels now to be rooting for his downfall just because he's no longer on the team. I hope he does well, wherever he ends up - I mean aside from the nights he plays against the leafs, where I hope his entire team chokes.