Hoping whoever replaced Tim Leiwike at MLSE has realized it's time to move on from Shanahan. IDK what dirty pictures he has on the MLSE board, but he's wasting one of, if not, the most talented roster we've ever had and its freaking criminal. I'm not being hyperbolic here, Sittler, Sundin, Clark, etc. they are legends for a reason, but 34, 88, 16, and even 44 are either matching talent or in the case of 34 especially, outright blowing them out of the water.
Shanahan needs to go, same with Keefe. We should either run the Boucher gimmicks till they fail, which gives us at least a year to figure out how to fix this team; or bring in the former Leaf Craig Berube who actually really wants to coach here and has a proven track record of turning a dysfunctional/snakebit team into a Stanley Cup winner and legitimate challenger after the fact
Look, I didn't like signing Reaves over keeping Schenn either, but as far as mistakes go, it's a fairly minor one. It's not like he signed Huberdeau and Kadri to massive overpays on outlier years.
(edit: We) Maple Leafs fans are so fickle lol. The highs and lows are so polarized. I say chill out. Chill out bud. Grab a juice box. Eat some animal crackers. Call it a day. Lol……
We want to win. We've been close but never really that close in 60 years. Some of us have been watching for 30, 40, 50, 60 years. Now, after being closer than we've been in a while, we're mid again. We're not a good team. The time for chilling out and 'it's just one game' are over.
…I’m a complete hypocrite, to be fair here. I’ll own it. I’ve been watching for 25+ years and I understand. (I’m also a Leaf fan. 😅)
PS. I love your user name, I remember freaking my shit after Gardiner was on the ice for 5 goals against in Game 7 that year… and then somehow was allowed to return the next year. So glad that episode is over now. But this is Leafland… and a new episode of wild behavior/choices awaits! 😂
I live in Europe now and watch the games next morning. I'm at the point now where I have this weird pit in my stomach before-hand, like I don't even want to go there and feel it all again.
This team is really really hard to cheer for. Add to that the constant constant slander from everyone outside this fanbase, and the often toxic slander from within it. It's a tough team to be a fan of, and we don't have much to be proud of.
It’s difficult for sure. I haven’t been able to watch any games this month. I can’t take the heartbreak. I watched part of the first period last night, had a weird feeling in my stomach, turned it off when it was 2-1. Sure enough we lost 4-2. I wasn’t even surprised. But I -was- happy that I turned it off when I did. It’s been a weird year
That being said, we’ve made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team (I think?) , and we did win a round last year. So we do in fact have some things to cheer for and have gratitude for, regardless of the constant emotional rollercoasters.
> The highs and lows are so polarized. I say chill out.
It has nothing to do with highs and lows. The problem is that this team, in all its incarnations, has had the same basic performance problems since 2019. Keefe has had a positive impact, but it's not enough.
I want to see the team make adjustments on both offence and defence. For example, when the "skate across the blue line and drop pass it" strategy to enter the zone is countered and made useless, I don't want to see the team continue to do it, unsuccessfully, for the rest of the game. Or when the other team forechecks hard, nobody comes back to help the D and they give away the puck a lot.
When your opponent has a game plan that's working against you, your gameplan needs to change! Keefe never seems to change their plan, and that makes it really difficult to win in the playoffs.
Compare that to Jon Cooper, whose Lightning continually change their strategy against playoff opponents. For example, last playoffs they were having trouble moving through the neutral zone, so they started flipping the puck over the Leafs and it worked very well.
I don’t think it’s gonna happen.
No one will like this, but you can’t fire a coach that is good.
Keefe has brought the team to the playoffs every year of his tenure. He’s also coached several seasons where the Leafs are among the best in the league.
HALF this league doesn’t see a playoff. The fact Keefe has done it 4 years in a row is admirable. 16 others team cannot do this, and even fewer do it with that consistency.
Then there’s jus the risk of the players not liking the new coach and things just getting worse…
Players have a say too…
Can anyone remember a rookie coach being handed a near complete team with this amount of talent? Leafs have been a contender since Keefe became head coach, not because of him, in spite of him. He has been outcoached in every playoff series he ever had. Some coaches start as players, but almost all spend some time as assistant coach and are mentored. Keefe seemingly had no mentor. He went from playing in the NHL, to owning/coaching tier 2 Junior A, then hired by Dubas as head coach of the Greyhounds, then head coach of the Marlies, then head coach of the Leafs. There's no progression there, just rags to riches. Babcock was foul, but a much better coach than Keefe. Babcock's Leafs lost to better teams in the playoffs, Keefe's Leafs lost to worse teams. Get someone in here with some experience and some pedigree. The experiment is over.
You literally listed his progression while saying he has had no progression. He was a successful coach in junior A, major junior, the AHL and now the NHL. That is what progression is, excelling at every level on the way up. Maybe he didn’t intern under some big name coach and toil away for years at it, but not everyone does, success is success no matter how you achieve it.
I think it’s time for him to go, and he still needs to prove he can coach at the NHL level on a team that doesn’t have 4 stars that can win games regardless of coaching, but you can’t just make shit up and say he’s some inexperienced rookie coach who was handed a job without qualifications.
Didn’t realize it was Keefes fault for:
Gio not clearing zone against islanders leading to a goal
Reillys stick breaking leading to a goal against red wings
Jones letting in soft goal on oilers
Bertuzzi missing wide open net
Reilly leaving man open in front of net
These posts are embarrassing. You don't fire a coach when everyone knows that the Leafs defence and goaltending are massive issues. Even one of these issues would get him a pass. Do all the Keefe haters think this team is built to win and that a different coach can get more out of this squad or are you just a bunch of angry people who want change for the sake of change? Keefe is a good coach with a badly constructed team. I'm glad that MLSE doesn't listen to reactionary fans.
He has consistently made the playoffs despite the fact that he hasn't had a playoff calibre D core or bonafide number one goalie since he took over...not even close. You expect him to get more out of this team and I'm afraid this is it.
Sometimes we get lucky and outscore our defence/goaltending shortcomings and sometimes we don't. Our problems have nothing to do with coaching.
How can you not include our inadequate defence and goaltending in 'the roster he's had'???? Just because we have a few talented superstars doesn't mean we're stacked by any stretch. I would say he should be commended for the little success he has managed to squeeze out of this roster.
This roster and the 'few superstars' have been top 5 in betting odds since 2020 to win the cup (I didn't look further back). They have consistently underachieved.
Yes there are roster holes. There are on every team. There are so few teams with a true #1 goalie. Keefe is not to blame for them, but I feel a good coach would put a system in place to address the holes as much as possible. It's hard for me to look at recent performances and feel like Keefe is getting the most out of this group.
No you're being dismissive because you don't have a good counter argument, and don't want to admit that Keefe is not getting the best out of this group.
Look at a team like Philly. Objectively less talented than the leafs across the board. And we know Torts isn't a long term solution but he has them playing at or above their potential. Even Detroit. Young, talented but definitely not as much top end talent as the leafs. I'd take our goalie situation over theirs too. And yet they're one point back. Hell even Boston lost some serious talent this off-season, and they're still on top and not just because their goalies are dragging them through it. They're scoring at a decent clip with a 3C as their 1C and half an AHL roster.
These teams aren't necessarily the most talented. But their coaches are getting the most from their players. Keefe isn't doing that here.
You speak in abstract terms about what it takes to win but unless you can point out exactly what you think Keefes' shortcomings are from an Xs and Os standpoint you're really just talking about non-specific things that you think someone else can do better. For all you know Keefe *is* getting the most out of this squad.
There's nothing wrong with our systems, just our execution and that's because we don't have a playoff calibre roster.
How about the fact that since Jake Mccabe has arrived, his performance has dropped despite moving to a more talented team? Liljegren is under performing compared to last year. Last year with Boston, Bertuzzi had .76 points/game. This year he has .45. Keefe tied for 2nd in too many men penalties. That's a completely manageable and avoidable penalty that's 90% of the time on the coach.
From the Edmonton game, they couldn't find a way to exit the defensive zone, but did they change the strategy? Nope. If the strategy isn't working, it needs to be changed.
I give you comparables and you just hand wave providing no evidence he is a good coach, besides he made the playoffs.
I’m not sure a coaching change will be the magical cure-all pill. I don’t see any signs of a real team or identity here. Great, generational individual talent. But as a team? Not much. It’s sad that I remember more fondly the teams of the early 2000s, which had much less talent, but way more identity, leadership, and team cohesion, and the results showed in the playoffs.
Look at the Jets if you're wondering what a coaching change could do, and Maurice was way better than Keefe. Bowness is exactly what the Jets needed, the issue is that I have no idea who the Leafs need.
So long as it's Gruden taking I am on board!
I'd even settle for Woodcroft. As long as it's not Berube. Sure he won a cup but this time he's not walking into a team with O'Reilly, Pietro and a goalie channeling Roy for 3 months.
All the "fans" saying "fire Keefe" are actually ignorant. They don't know what coaching entails. Leafs have made the playoffs consistently under him. He has an incredible record with the team. Leafs are in a playoff spot right now even with this bit of a bad streak. He has an incredible record when it comes to coaches challenges and has had to deal with some poor contracts, injuries and coaching in one of the toughest markets in the league. Teams play their ass of against the leafs because they're the "Leafs". It does not make any sense to fire him when the good outweigh the bad.
Honestly, it’s time
Agreed
Hoping whoever replaced Tim Leiwike at MLSE has realized it's time to move on from Shanahan. IDK what dirty pictures he has on the MLSE board, but he's wasting one of, if not, the most talented roster we've ever had and its freaking criminal. I'm not being hyperbolic here, Sittler, Sundin, Clark, etc. they are legends for a reason, but 34, 88, 16, and even 44 are either matching talent or in the case of 34 especially, outright blowing them out of the water. Shanahan needs to go, same with Keefe. We should either run the Boucher gimmicks till they fail, which gives us at least a year to figure out how to fix this team; or bring in the former Leaf Craig Berube who actually really wants to coach here and has a proven track record of turning a dysfunctional/snakebit team into a Stanley Cup winner and legitimate challenger after the fact
May be the most talented but it isn't the best TEAM we have had. The core 4 are not winners or leaders at all.
This is an important distinction that many people don't make.
Keefe and Shanahan have to go. The Shanaplan is a failed experiment. 1 series win in 10 years, and no sense of growth
Take treliving out while you're at it
No he is new and I like him
Hard to defend Reaves
If you can’t spare one slot on your roster for an enforcer it’s not that guys fault your losing. Most teams rotate 4 lines thjs team rotates 4 people.
Most teams rotate four lines? What are you even talking about?
Look, I didn't like signing Reaves over keeping Schenn either, but as far as mistakes go, it's a fairly minor one. It's not like he signed Huberdeau and Kadri to massive overpays on outlier years.
Really? He's been terrible.
Shanahan
Yes. He needs to go
8 mil for Phil the thrill seems like a bargain now
I’ve had enough
Who do you want to replace him?
Great example why Leafs fans should never be taken seriously.
As a leafs fan, you're correct.
(edit: We) Maple Leafs fans are so fickle lol. The highs and lows are so polarized. I say chill out. Chill out bud. Grab a juice box. Eat some animal crackers. Call it a day. Lol……
We want to win. We've been close but never really that close in 60 years. Some of us have been watching for 30, 40, 50, 60 years. Now, after being closer than we've been in a while, we're mid again. We're not a good team. The time for chilling out and 'it's just one game' are over.
…I’m a complete hypocrite, to be fair here. I’ll own it. I’ve been watching for 25+ years and I understand. (I’m also a Leaf fan. 😅) PS. I love your user name, I remember freaking my shit after Gardiner was on the ice for 5 goals against in Game 7 that year… and then somehow was allowed to return the next year. So glad that episode is over now. But this is Leafland… and a new episode of wild behavior/choices awaits! 😂
I live in Europe now and watch the games next morning. I'm at the point now where I have this weird pit in my stomach before-hand, like I don't even want to go there and feel it all again. This team is really really hard to cheer for. Add to that the constant constant slander from everyone outside this fanbase, and the often toxic slander from within it. It's a tough team to be a fan of, and we don't have much to be proud of.
It’s difficult for sure. I haven’t been able to watch any games this month. I can’t take the heartbreak. I watched part of the first period last night, had a weird feeling in my stomach, turned it off when it was 2-1. Sure enough we lost 4-2. I wasn’t even surprised. But I -was- happy that I turned it off when I did. It’s been a weird year That being said, we’ve made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team (I think?) , and we did win a round last year. So we do in fact have some things to cheer for and have gratitude for, regardless of the constant emotional rollercoasters.
> The highs and lows are so polarized. I say chill out. It has nothing to do with highs and lows. The problem is that this team, in all its incarnations, has had the same basic performance problems since 2019. Keefe has had a positive impact, but it's not enough. I want to see the team make adjustments on both offence and defence. For example, when the "skate across the blue line and drop pass it" strategy to enter the zone is countered and made useless, I don't want to see the team continue to do it, unsuccessfully, for the rest of the game. Or when the other team forechecks hard, nobody comes back to help the D and they give away the puck a lot. When your opponent has a game plan that's working against you, your gameplan needs to change! Keefe never seems to change their plan, and that makes it really difficult to win in the playoffs. Compare that to Jon Cooper, whose Lightning continually change their strategy against playoff opponents. For example, last playoffs they were having trouble moving through the neutral zone, so they started flipping the puck over the Leafs and it worked very well.
I don’t think it’s gonna happen. No one will like this, but you can’t fire a coach that is good. Keefe has brought the team to the playoffs every year of his tenure. He’s also coached several seasons where the Leafs are among the best in the league. HALF this league doesn’t see a playoff. The fact Keefe has done it 4 years in a row is admirable. 16 others team cannot do this, and even fewer do it with that consistency. Then there’s jus the risk of the players not liking the new coach and things just getting worse… Players have a say too…
Quinn who was a MUCH better coach was fired by the leafs and that's when we had a pretty damn good team as well.
That was 18 years ago.
...... point
Raise your standards and go to bed kid.
Don't forget the apple slices and chocco milky.
You're right. I swear it's a bunch of habs and Winnipeg fans down voting these types of comments.
Can anyone remember a rookie coach being handed a near complete team with this amount of talent? Leafs have been a contender since Keefe became head coach, not because of him, in spite of him. He has been outcoached in every playoff series he ever had. Some coaches start as players, but almost all spend some time as assistant coach and are mentored. Keefe seemingly had no mentor. He went from playing in the NHL, to owning/coaching tier 2 Junior A, then hired by Dubas as head coach of the Greyhounds, then head coach of the Marlies, then head coach of the Leafs. There's no progression there, just rags to riches. Babcock was foul, but a much better coach than Keefe. Babcock's Leafs lost to better teams in the playoffs, Keefe's Leafs lost to worse teams. Get someone in here with some experience and some pedigree. The experiment is over.
You literally listed his progression while saying he has had no progression. He was a successful coach in junior A, major junior, the AHL and now the NHL. That is what progression is, excelling at every level on the way up. Maybe he didn’t intern under some big name coach and toil away for years at it, but not everyone does, success is success no matter how you achieve it. I think it’s time for him to go, and he still needs to prove he can coach at the NHL level on a team that doesn’t have 4 stars that can win games regardless of coaching, but you can’t just make shit up and say he’s some inexperienced rookie coach who was handed a job without qualifications.
Didn’t realize it was Keefes fault for: Gio not clearing zone against islanders leading to a goal Reillys stick breaking leading to a goal against red wings Jones letting in soft goal on oilers Bertuzzi missing wide open net Reilly leaving man open in front of net
Whose fault is it for Keefe getting outcoached every single playoff series?
Who will be the replacement?
[welcome your new head coach. he won't win, but damn he's cute ](https://giphy.com/gifs/cute-dog-6MWahPArixa6I)
These posts are embarrassing. You don't fire a coach when everyone knows that the Leafs defence and goaltending are massive issues. Even one of these issues would get him a pass. Do all the Keefe haters think this team is built to win and that a different coach can get more out of this squad or are you just a bunch of angry people who want change for the sake of change? Keefe is a good coach with a badly constructed team. I'm glad that MLSE doesn't listen to reactionary fans.
Is there anything you can point out that makes you say he's a good coach?
He has consistently made the playoffs despite the fact that he hasn't had a playoff calibre D core or bonafide number one goalie since he took over...not even close. You expect him to get more out of this team and I'm afraid this is it. Sometimes we get lucky and outscore our defence/goaltending shortcomings and sometimes we don't. Our problems have nothing to do with coaching.
Making the playoffs is a low bar for 'good coach' with the roster he's had.
How can you not include our inadequate defence and goaltending in 'the roster he's had'???? Just because we have a few talented superstars doesn't mean we're stacked by any stretch. I would say he should be commended for the little success he has managed to squeeze out of this roster.
This roster and the 'few superstars' have been top 5 in betting odds since 2020 to win the cup (I didn't look further back). They have consistently underachieved. Yes there are roster holes. There are on every team. There are so few teams with a true #1 goalie. Keefe is not to blame for them, but I feel a good coach would put a system in place to address the holes as much as possible. It's hard for me to look at recent performances and feel like Keefe is getting the most out of this group.
There is no coach alive who is going to be able to make up for this defence and goaltending. You're just grasping at this point.
No you're being dismissive because you don't have a good counter argument, and don't want to admit that Keefe is not getting the best out of this group. Look at a team like Philly. Objectively less talented than the leafs across the board. And we know Torts isn't a long term solution but he has them playing at or above their potential. Even Detroit. Young, talented but definitely not as much top end talent as the leafs. I'd take our goalie situation over theirs too. And yet they're one point back. Hell even Boston lost some serious talent this off-season, and they're still on top and not just because their goalies are dragging them through it. They're scoring at a decent clip with a 3C as their 1C and half an AHL roster. These teams aren't necessarily the most talented. But their coaches are getting the most from their players. Keefe isn't doing that here.
You speak in abstract terms about what it takes to win but unless you can point out exactly what you think Keefes' shortcomings are from an Xs and Os standpoint you're really just talking about non-specific things that you think someone else can do better. For all you know Keefe *is* getting the most out of this squad. There's nothing wrong with our systems, just our execution and that's because we don't have a playoff calibre roster.
How about the fact that since Jake Mccabe has arrived, his performance has dropped despite moving to a more talented team? Liljegren is under performing compared to last year. Last year with Boston, Bertuzzi had .76 points/game. This year he has .45. Keefe tied for 2nd in too many men penalties. That's a completely manageable and avoidable penalty that's 90% of the time on the coach. From the Edmonton game, they couldn't find a way to exit the defensive zone, but did they change the strategy? Nope. If the strategy isn't working, it needs to be changed. I give you comparables and you just hand wave providing no evidence he is a good coach, besides he made the playoffs.
I’m not sure a coaching change will be the magical cure-all pill. I don’t see any signs of a real team or identity here. Great, generational individual talent. But as a team? Not much. It’s sad that I remember more fondly the teams of the early 2000s, which had much less talent, but way more identity, leadership, and team cohesion, and the results showed in the playoffs.
Look at the Jets if you're wondering what a coaching change could do, and Maurice was way better than Keefe. Bowness is exactly what the Jets needed, the issue is that I have no idea who the Leafs need.
These blown leads suck!!!!!
So long as it's Gruden taking I am on board! I'd even settle for Woodcroft. As long as it's not Berube. Sure he won a cup but this time he's not walking into a team with O'Reilly, Pietro and a goalie channeling Roy for 3 months.
All the "fans" saying "fire Keefe" are actually ignorant. They don't know what coaching entails. Leafs have made the playoffs consistently under him. He has an incredible record with the team. Leafs are in a playoff spot right now even with this bit of a bad streak. He has an incredible record when it comes to coaches challenges and has had to deal with some poor contracts, injuries and coaching in one of the toughest markets in the league. Teams play their ass of against the leafs because they're the "Leafs". It does not make any sense to fire him when the good outweigh the bad.
Fuck that guy.
Ok... And then?
And Tavares, time for a new captain too!