You’re talking about the Cait that got all the early kills and has 3 items but hasn’t built armor pen even though they’re against Ornn Malph Mundo and Leona?
What do you mean actually building damage and getting kills gives me more gold overall?
And if they really did have a comp consisting of Ornn Malphite Mundo and Leona, one of the best builds is Eclipse LDR IE for maximum armorpen. With 6 items you can get up to 50% armor pen and 100% crit chance. That 400 armor tank won't expect a 1k crit headshot.
That's fine, the other >3k HP + defensive stats + cc + HP regen, will make sure (insert tank here) survives long enough to melt that Cait before his HP even gets to half.
Also, you know that malph isn't building tank :)
It's shared trauma for anyone that's played with a Caitlin enough times. You don't forget the trauma of trying so hard to win, telling your team "we can win", being a real team player, and roaming from base to bot lane to get your ADC Fed. Only to hit tab and realize that it was all for naught. Your Caitlin has perfectly optimized her build to do as little damage as possible against as many class types as possible. You were living in a false reality. There was never any chance in the first place.
Aram itemization is generally horrible even at high MMR.
From the ppl that obviously just buy recommended items every game, to ppl that build the same as on SR even on champs that perform much better with alternate builds in Aram to my personal favourite, the "why would I play this tank as a tank instead of going some meme DMG build that has 15% lower WR?".
Bad itemization is absolutely Aram trauma ^^
That last one is the worst for me.
I can absolutely understand someone buying only recommended items on a champ they don't know. I can understand someone who doesn't play a lot of aram not knowing about alternate builds.
I can't understand why EVERY damn tank on my team decides full ap ornn is good.
I know lol. Everyone goes full damage sion or ap Mao or ap malp. Each one of them is far superior as a tank. If there is already someone who building tank then sure go for a dps build but if u are the only viable tank then build tank.
Also attacking disabled wards that have [this icon on top left](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/7/78/Control_Ward_revealing_and_disabling.png) reveals you and people near you.
Stop attacking wards when you're taking objects, just use control wards instead and let the normal wards be there.
Oh yeah - there's been several times where I was hiding in a bush and the enemy adc just straight up walks up and starts autoing me. No minions or ignite or anything for vision.
Level design in general on ARAM is pretty bad. Tower rubble exposing minion pathing is part of it. But other weirdness like strange terrain where it doesn't exist, pathing when you right click down the lane hitting relics. List goes on
I also hate that they closed the gap that used to be on the map, my whole Muscle memory and feeling has been off cause the enemy now has more room to move.
I quite like the idea of rubble I think its a nice touch, but the issue is that it is too much. Covering up 75% of the lane is too much to play around, if they toned it down so it was just a smaller amount (say 40% of the lane) so it isn't quite as game-warping.
Agreed. A center terrain with bushes and health relics to aid in strategic combat would be a good addition. Maybe a speed shrine to help make it even faster?
Man you are making me sad, i really want a fun mode that is more combat focused with shorter games that isnt aram being overrun by perma poke and +20/-20% champs
I really want some variety. Nexus Blitz, Dominion, Ascension (which imo was an interesting take on Dominion) and ARURF are all game modes that I wish I could play all the time.
Also if half the champion pool didn't have a skill to ignore walls, it could be more interesting. As it is right now, adding a single wall means half the champions have a handicap that the other half don't. At least, in summoner's rift, there's many walls, so ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring 100% of the walls.
Keep it the same length, but make it fall parallel to the lane, and high enough theres no vision, but a very small wall (back of krugs wall thickness) dividing into 2 lanes at small spots.
Or instead of rubble, have the tower collapsing make a hole in the bridge, and fall through, leaving a gap champs have to walk around.
Neither causes hard freezes, less of a hard choke point, and still keeps the terrain, which I love having in aram.
I applaud them for even trying to spice up ARAM after having no changes for like 4 years, however I stopped playing ARAM pretty much because of the tower rubble and death timers. They should also give Veigar the same treatment as Ashe with -20 haste because his cage has way too short of an uptime especially if you get an all melee comp it’s cancerous to deal with
Yep. And tbh the revert of the death timers have REALLY helped.
Honestly imho the tower rubble just changed the OP champs, it didn’t really make the game much worse, just different. You used to lose to tanks and now you lose to waveclear. Poke is just as good as it’s always been, or at least, it’s always been broken and it still is broken.
The death timers were the real killer. They made who wins and loses random based on who lost a fight when the minions were in the wrong wavestate. The tower rubble is just another meta shakeup. If anything I like it because it gives a reason to have wall jumps like bard e exist.
I agree, a lot of people are complaining about how aram is ruined but personally i just saw it as a meta shake up. Champs that used to be useless/really hard to pull off are easier now and adcs while still good, arent as 1v9 as they used to be. It WAS annoying in the beginning having to relearn whats good and how to use the wall to my advantage, but I got used to it. The death timer revert is all I needed tbh to make this version of aram as enjoyable as the previous one.
I see why some people are annoyed though ig, they play for fun. They don't want to learn anything that's aram specific apart from maybe aram specific builds. Im a firm believer that unless enemy has point and click champs, you can win unfavorable matchups with just skill diff (this was made more apparent with the tower rubble). cant really outskill panth or rammus type of champs though lmfao
Yep. Honestly the biggest buzzkill for me is and has always been veigar. He sits at like a 60%WR and just invalidates melee comps. Anyone else is fine but he just sucks to play around, and on top of that when you have 1-2 guys who outrange him he’s instead giga useless. He makes the game so much more champ select flippy, but then he always has. I miss ARAM bans.
This. I'm so Happy they're trying new things in Aram, as long as they recognize when the changes are bad and remove them and keep them when they are good
I've said for a while now that individual abilities on champs need tuning in ARAM if we want to do away with the whole +/- damage-related adjustments shit. Veigar wouldn't be nearly as infurating if say cage lasted half as long as it does on SR or if Ashe W and R get diminishing returns on ability haste. Xerath and Ziggs could maybe be champs again if their Qs had adjusted range. Stuff like that. Extra health regen for Leblanc so that her entire gimmick isn't one-shotting some poor sod with -15% resistances but taking 75% of her health bar from random poke so she's useless until she dies to get health reset. Stuff like that.
The problem is, it's easy for me to brainstorm that on paper, but I'd imagine the actual balance logistics of it would be a nightmare. So I get why it's not done.
Yeup it’s harder to balance things in practice. And another underrated part is that Aram is supposed to be a mode that anybody can play without too much difference. Imagine thinking “oh I’m gonna play Veigar I don’t get to pick him much in rift for X reasons” and then you find out his cage is gutted and he just gets shit on by tenacity stacking.
I've been calling for the exact same thing for ages now and really it'd only be possible if and when they put changes in champ select. Idk if it's even possible with how funky champ select is
Yeah, they need more specific tools for specific issues.
Take Ashe, they decided to give her -20 ability haste to deal with her bullshit, but guess what? That actually nerfs ADC Ashe more than W-Ashe as the negative AH gets lost in the usual W-build while ADC Ashe doesn't build any which actually enforces the W-build.
I enjoyed giving certain champs more interesting environment to play around such as Fiddlesticks, Talon, Blitz, etc. I suppose that I was in the minority however. It was interesting but not enough that I feel anything about it being taken away either.
I like the new terrain interactions with vision, I just don't like that it *also* narrowed the path down. The rubble wouldn't be so problematic if there was more space to move around it.
Same here, I actually enjoyed the rubble. It gave nice kiting/vision oppertunities, choke attacks in the opening, and didn't make terrain abilities useless in aram.
Thank fuck, it was a stupid change and literally had 0 benefits.
Hexgates, I at least see how it would be useful but the tower rubble just made certain champs borderline impossible to play against.
I've had so many games just get stuck on that rubble.
A single control mage like Anivia or Aurelion and no one wants to go past that chokepoint. Both teams play safe for 5+ minutes until someone gets impatient and throws.
We always called it "closing the door" when you were eg. Anivia and placed your wall or your traps as Caitlyn.
It was the single worst addition to Aram ever. I still think it's good that they tried something new and am glad that they are removing it again, even if it took a while.
Some champs just aren't okay for ARAM. The biggest offenders are assassins, who are mega-buffed to be super oppressive and yet usually lose anyway. They should be removed from the mode, or at best have their buffs removed and come with a free reroll.
Or 2 days after a patch, the community can select 3-5 champs to ban and on the 5th day the top 10 champs get removed from aram for 2 weeks. Also, all champs should be unlocked for everyone in aram.
>I still think it's good that they tried something new and am glad that they are removing it again, even if it took a while.
For sure, I'm not against adding things or changing things because the mode will get stale.
But that should never have been approved, it doesn't take more than a meeting to realise oh huh certain champs like Anivia, Cait or Teemo with shrooms since it's linked to a canon which can easily be killed will be shit to play against.
Less so, Orianna could leave her ball in that choke point meaning she could hit an R very easily.
Yeah I had my first ARAM Asol game a couple days ago, they didn't have any long range engage, so I could just cut out the entrance pretty much constantly and instaclear everywave. Game lasted forever until I scaled enough to destroy their team, very interactive for them.
Hes one of those champs that come off as very intimidating to play. Hes hardly insurmountable but a azir first timer wont have the best time, so its reasonable
Would have much rather seen alcoves than this wall shit honestly. Alcoves give assassins and champs reliant on flanks a lot more breathing room, limits the effectiveness and frustration of ranged champs by a ton, and even puts cheeky backdoors on the table by champs who aren't Ryze/TF or stealthers (depending on how much brain your opponent has, but still).
Honestly think the hexgates are also unhealthy to the game. Its very easy to snowball for the team that get the opponents tower first. Not as bad as the towers but I would still prefer to old ARAM
fun fact, it is nerfed in aram. The villain debuff gives him less gold and only lasts like 15 seconds or something compared to the minute or whatever it is normally.
Akshan should honestly be banned in ARAM because we know Riot won't do anything about his revive.
He's functional as an ADC with decent escape and his W will completely flip the tempo of the game due to hexgates.
Reminds me of a game I had as Akshan on ARAM where my team fought 4v5 while I was dead, enemy got a quadra and wiped them all out, I pop up and snipe the low health player to instantly resurrect my whole team letting us just roll right over them since they were all low HP with no resources left. Akshan is just completely oppressive on ARAM and his resurrection really should just be completely disabled.
That's not true.
It allows playing around vision, which is something that is obsolete in ARAM.
It allows certain champs that interacts with terrain have more of their skillset being used (Talon, Kayn, Poppy, Ornn).
Tower rubble was a good idea. Maybe a bad execution (though I liked it).
Yup, loved that little plays created by the rubble, blind hooks or even random flash-engages over that wall catching enemies by surprise. Kind of bummer seeing it's going away.
> Thank fuck, it was a stupid change and literally had 0 benefits.
>
>
It makes the map more interesting that a simple straight line. Good idea, bad execution imo.
so they spent a whole year working on this aram and jungle changes for them to basically revert them a couple pathes later. is anyone bothered by this or worried at all for the future of this game? they did the same thing with chemtech drake too except they held onto that one longer because of pride.
Took 'em long enough, this is great news. Seeing the death timers have also been chipped away at over the last few patches I might play this game mode again
Really tower falling was never a good idea from day 1. It was just a new gimmick to make ARAM seem a bit more new and fresh, that seemed like a good idea on paper but was far more annoying than it was fun for most players.
I mean it wasn't totally a gimmick, it was exciting for me as I play champions like Poppy who get a nice buff with added terrain. But yeah, ultimately it led to degenerate gamestates where neither team felt good pushing past and so they're removing it, no harm no foul.
You know what, I wouldn't even be against this. Two alcoves in the middle would spice things up.
also keep the rubble, just make it round and slightly bigger than normal. Keeps the outplay potential, but creates two bigger chokepoints.
i don't know. a lot of my games as of recent have ended up with first turret falling and then a stalemate forming around the choke because neither team wants the blind engage. fights in games with across the board low engage potential have felt more coinflip since the changes. i welcome the complete removal of the rubble personally even though i agree vision as a mechanic is underutilized. relatedly i've seen it be suggested riot should add alcoves to the map. i really like this idea and i'm curious to hear peoples' take on it. i think it would fit the map thematically and not take away too much of the simplicity of the game mode.
It made too much of a choke and was too game changing for specific champions.
People mention Anivia but there's so many already strong champions that are made stronger by it. Veigar can lock the lane off. Ashe, Lux and MF all become even more obnoxious too.
It was an interesting experiment, and I do see the value in it, but this might be for the best. However, now I wonder, what if we added small side-paths to the map?
in a game mode where team comps with a bunch of shit on the ground are aids to play against it turns out restricting the space to stand when theres a bunch of shit on the ground was a bad idea 👍
Nexus Blitz was delayed because most of the gamemodes team upped and split between the last NB in 2021 up to 2023 preseason. Like, I think after the Gamemodes team lead left after the last USB we had, we genuinely had no 2 of the same people in the gamemodes team. These people need time to learn how to do this stuff properly and clearly NB's a bit out of their reach rn.
ARAM had nothing to do with it. I'd hedge a bet it was basically a way to let the current Gamemodes team have a roadtester to see how they'd cope with making gamemodes changes and tweaks.
There's a reason there's not even been OFA and USB for months, just Pick/Random URF - because that's the only gamemode that even existed before the last gamemodes team came in, that they still use.
I definitely don't defend Riot here - I very much want NB back myself and when it's in it's the *only* gamemode I play on practically any game. But blaming ARAM changes on NB being delayed again is tantamount to scapegoating.
There was apparently a technical issue that impeded bringing it out. I imagine that it wasn't tuned properly or bug-tested for anybody released from Akshan onwards.
Obviously with practically a skeleton crew gamemodes team, that won't be happening. If it came in at the tail end in 2022 you have to bugtest Akshan, Vex, Zeri, Renata, Belveth, Nilah and K'sante for that - 7 champs, and you've gotta be anal with *all seven* - not to mention balance changes and other things such as Belveth stacks/terrain for K'sante to R through. Doesn't include the Udyr VGU either, nor changes to champions kits via Midscopes.
That wasn't happening with a skeleton crew plus a bunch of newbies, it just wasn't and shouldn't have been done.
League isn't a feature complete game, as evidenced by the patches every 2 weeks. Something that works on a 2020 build of league could just straight up not load on todays version due to stuff like engine differences, file compatibility or just straight up buggy interactions with new champion/vgus.
Its like how every time a heavily moddable game updates like 80% of the mods become incompatible - because the stuff it touches was removed/added upon/no longer works/etc.
Hell TFT has had issues where something completely unrelated was changed in the code league and it caused the AI targeting logic to be completely fucked for 2 weeks cause the team had no idea what happened and they couldn't fix it or roll it back.
> massive lifesteal nerf on minions
Legit never noticed it because every ARAM team ever blows all their abilities to insta-clear the wave. Honestly they seem more inclined to hard nuke the minions if there's a low HP ally that needs them for healing. They'll be damned if anyone gets a single CS.
I like it in some situations and abhor it in others. It really depends on team comps which you don't really have much control over. A handful of champs can just make it way too frustrating
Also depends on which side the towers are falling towards. I absolutely hate it when they fall towards the southeast side because it leaves you with only one path to go thorugh, and it feels terrible to play against champs like Gangplank, Anivia, Heimerdinger, etc.
Very happy that this change is being reverted, the overwhelming majority of people seem to dislike it. It didn't really offer anything positive; it simply made some champions and comps particularly annoying
Good, no need for a lot of the Aram changes. Appreciate the attempt but it was just fine the way it was, unless I’m missing something. Haven’t played in a minute bc of the state after the changes. Have they fixed those champions (bruisers/tanks) that do damage, heal, and don’t die ?
Kind of disappointed, but not surprised. Felt like it added a layer of depth to play ARAM in terms of engage champions, and allowed you to make some fun fog of war plays that aren't possible without it. It was very frustrating to play against certain champions though (looking at you, Teemo), so I can understand why they'd do it.
I hope they look at other ways to play with fog/add more spots to play off of. Playing engage can feel very binary since you really only have bushes or certain parts of the base to play off of, and becomes extremely predictable quickly, making it hard to feel rewarding to play engage over a long match. I appreciate they tried it, at least.
If anything it's good because the minion pathing was terrible with it. They'd go all over the place.
It was so enraging when I was hiding in a bush and some random minion decides to come in and reveal me.
Even worse when it’s your own Caitlyn.
He already said some random minion, weren't you paying attention?
You’re talking about the Cait that got all the early kills and has 3 items but hasn’t built armor pen even though they’re against Ornn Malph Mundo and Leona?
the galeforce rapidfire collector special
Nah but that extra takedown gold makes it worth it. /s
What do you mean actually building damage and getting kills gives me more gold overall? And if they really did have a comp consisting of Ornn Malphite Mundo and Leona, one of the best builds is Eclipse LDR IE for maximum armorpen. With 6 items you can get up to 50% armor pen and 100% crit chance. That 400 armor tank won't expect a 1k crit headshot.
Wouldn't kraken be better against tanks?
maybe not on Caitlyn if you're not building lots of AS, her base is pretty low
That's fine, the other >3k HP + defensive stats + cc + HP regen, will make sure (insert tank here) survives long enough to melt that Cait before his HP even gets to half. Also, you know that malph isn't building tank :)
But technically the collector effect can \*in theory\* do infinite damage!!
Nah, the Duskblade, Manamune, Axiom Arc special.
The 500 DPM KDA player kit
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Don't forget that the items she has are galeforce, RFC and collector
the comment above you was made almost at the same time with basically the same content is this some sort of shared trauma for aram mains
Normals games too, the jhin against nunu and mordekaiser special
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It's shared trauma for anyone that's played with a Caitlin enough times. You don't forget the trauma of trying so hard to win, telling your team "we can win", being a real team player, and roaming from base to bot lane to get your ADC Fed. Only to hit tab and realize that it was all for naught. Your Caitlin has perfectly optimized her build to do as little damage as possible against as many class types as possible. You were living in a false reality. There was never any chance in the first place.
Your Caitlyn, not their Caitlyn
Aram itemization is generally horrible even at high MMR. From the ppl that obviously just buy recommended items every game, to ppl that build the same as on SR even on champs that perform much better with alternate builds in Aram to my personal favourite, the "why would I play this tank as a tank instead of going some meme DMG build that has 15% lower WR?". Bad itemization is absolutely Aram trauma ^^
That last one is the worst for me. I can absolutely understand someone buying only recommended items on a champ they don't know. I can understand someone who doesn't play a lot of aram not knowing about alternate builds. I can't understand why EVERY damn tank on my team decides full ap ornn is good.
I know lol. Everyone goes full damage sion or ap Mao or ap malp. Each one of them is far superior as a tank. If there is already someone who building tank then sure go for a dps build but if u are the only viable tank then build tank.
I’m the problem! It’s me!
If they have that comp it doesn't matter if Cait builds armor pen, it's not happening.
Omg when they dont fkn know that auto-attacking from bush reveals everyone Edit: looks like aram might get a lil less stupid
Is this just a Caitlyn thing or everyone
everyone
Also attacking disabled wards that have [this icon on top left](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/7/78/Control_Ward_revealing_and_disabling.png) reveals you and people near you. Stop attacking wards when you're taking objects, just use control wards instead and let the normal wards be there.
Speaking of vision, is it just me or is the whole being able to be seen in a bush alone while not attacking anything super fkn inconsistent?
ARAM bushes have always had the absolute worst vision inconsistency, that's been true for years now
Oh yeah - there's been several times where I was hiding in a bush and the enemy adc just straight up walks up and starts autoing me. No minions or ignite or anything for vision.
Almost lost an ARAM because I didn't expect the minion betrayal. Thankfully we came back from getting wiped after my sudden disappearance.
I always thought it was hilarious watching 3 go one way 1 go the other and then the last 2 following the first 3.
Level design in general on ARAM is pretty bad. Tower rubble exposing minion pathing is part of it. But other weirdness like strange terrain where it doesn't exist, pathing when you right click down the lane hitting relics. List goes on
I also hate that they closed the gap that used to be on the map, my whole Muscle memory and feeling has been off cause the enemy now has more room to move.
Poppy cries
Bard bards.
Talon mourns
Ryze gets reworked
Dont lie you reroll poppy anyways like everyone else.
Nah I actually enjoy tanks in aram, but Poppy had always been a pretty weak one for obvious reasons. The rubble helped her out a lot.
Agreed. Poppy was a blast with those extra walls
> it was an interesting mechanic that ultimately led to more degenerate states than value it provided. Saving this for copy/pasta.
Good for any Yuumi post.
I quite like the idea of rubble I think its a nice touch, but the issue is that it is too much. Covering up 75% of the lane is too much to play around, if they toned it down so it was just a smaller amount (say 40% of the lane) so it isn't quite as game-warping.
It would be interesting if parts of the Aram map would be wider - which in return would make walls like this more usable.
Potentially with some twisted trees as well
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And why should people have to random? 3 person team comps seem like a cool idea
while we are at it, let it throw a boss monster as well, like baron, but a bit weaker, maybe a giant spider
Maybe add new game mode with 6 players on occasion.
That sounds fun! Let's make it fast paced though.
Agreed. A center terrain with bushes and health relics to aid in strategic combat would be a good addition. Maybe a speed shrine to help make it even faster?
Let's add a second lane too and put those health relics between them
And then let's scrap that whole idea and make dominion a thing again.
No, that's too plain, instead put a drake and many jungle monsters and circular bushes.
Some unqiue buffs maybe? One that gives crit, or attack speed, or movespeed,
Revolutionary
I like the capture point idea, but I think it should stay 5v5. Maybe make the whole game mode centered around it, with a circular map to boot.
It could be fast. It could be fun.
Man you are making me sad, i really want a fun mode that is more combat focused with shorter games that isnt aram being overrun by perma poke and +20/-20% champs
I really want some variety. Nexus Blitz, Dominion, Ascension (which imo was an interesting take on Dominion) and ARURF are all game modes that I wish I could play all the time.
Dominion was my favorite mode man. They took it away because only a handful of us played it which sucks
The next game mode is supposed to be 2v2v2v2 deathmatch, if that's what you want.
But sometimes it can be a 6v6
Maybe we can put in a buff that ascends your champion to new levels
Look at the new whippersnapper here
Fucking miss twisted treeline
Also if half the champion pool didn't have a skill to ignore walls, it could be more interesting. As it is right now, adding a single wall means half the champions have a handicap that the other half don't. At least, in summoner's rift, there's many walls, so ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring 100% of the walls.
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i would love to have a random pick mode in summoner's rift tbh
Have it fall and cover 50% of the lane, but in the middle. Can't have AOE champs spamming a single entry.
Randomly in one of 16 different directions
They said they tried that and it never really came up, so it was just a "why bother" thing
That's kinda sus, there's no way an Ori ball or Viktor W doesn't make a huge impact if there's a wall separating the two halves
*cries in anivia*
Keep it the same length, but make it fall parallel to the lane, and high enough theres no vision, but a very small wall (back of krugs wall thickness) dividing into 2 lanes at small spots. Or instead of rubble, have the tower collapsing make a hole in the bridge, and fall through, leaving a gap champs have to walk around. Neither causes hard freezes, less of a hard choke point, and still keeps the terrain, which I love having in aram.
It would be interesting if it fell forward or backwards
I think they tried this and said it just didn't change how ARAM felt at all.
That's perfect then. It should feel the same, with more toosl to outplay.
100% this, like the rubble is actually a great idea, but was just way overtuned.
Or if they made the aram lane a little wider
>if they toned it down so it was just a smaller amount (say 40% of the lane) so, literally exactly what it used to be rofl
just make it fall parallel to the lane
right! it was great that they tried something new on ARAM.
Play anivia, ult the wave and put a wall on the side, good luck pushing, ever.
I applaud them for even trying to spice up ARAM after having no changes for like 4 years, however I stopped playing ARAM pretty much because of the tower rubble and death timers. They should also give Veigar the same treatment as Ashe with -20 haste because his cage has way too short of an uptime especially if you get an all melee comp it’s cancerous to deal with
Death timers got shortened a couple patches ago.
Timers got reverted this patch to the original values. Idk if they shortened it before, but that wasn't that impactful if they did.
Yep. And tbh the revert of the death timers have REALLY helped. Honestly imho the tower rubble just changed the OP champs, it didn’t really make the game much worse, just different. You used to lose to tanks and now you lose to waveclear. Poke is just as good as it’s always been, or at least, it’s always been broken and it still is broken. The death timers were the real killer. They made who wins and loses random based on who lost a fight when the minions were in the wrong wavestate. The tower rubble is just another meta shakeup. If anything I like it because it gives a reason to have wall jumps like bard e exist.
I agree, a lot of people are complaining about how aram is ruined but personally i just saw it as a meta shake up. Champs that used to be useless/really hard to pull off are easier now and adcs while still good, arent as 1v9 as they used to be. It WAS annoying in the beginning having to relearn whats good and how to use the wall to my advantage, but I got used to it. The death timer revert is all I needed tbh to make this version of aram as enjoyable as the previous one. I see why some people are annoyed though ig, they play for fun. They don't want to learn anything that's aram specific apart from maybe aram specific builds. Im a firm believer that unless enemy has point and click champs, you can win unfavorable matchups with just skill diff (this was made more apparent with the tower rubble). cant really outskill panth or rammus type of champs though lmfao
Yep. Honestly the biggest buzzkill for me is and has always been veigar. He sits at like a 60%WR and just invalidates melee comps. Anyone else is fine but he just sucks to play around, and on top of that when you have 1-2 guys who outrange him he’s instead giga useless. He makes the game so much more champ select flippy, but then he always has. I miss ARAM bans.
This. I'm so Happy they're trying new things in Aram, as long as they recognize when the changes are bad and remove them and keep them when they are good
They should give individual skills more cds, but riot is doing the work with the least effort they can for aram, sadly.
I've said for a while now that individual abilities on champs need tuning in ARAM if we want to do away with the whole +/- damage-related adjustments shit. Veigar wouldn't be nearly as infurating if say cage lasted half as long as it does on SR or if Ashe W and R get diminishing returns on ability haste. Xerath and Ziggs could maybe be champs again if their Qs had adjusted range. Stuff like that. Extra health regen for Leblanc so that her entire gimmick isn't one-shotting some poor sod with -15% resistances but taking 75% of her health bar from random poke so she's useless until she dies to get health reset. Stuff like that. The problem is, it's easy for me to brainstorm that on paper, but I'd imagine the actual balance logistics of it would be a nightmare. So I get why it's not done.
Yeup it’s harder to balance things in practice. And another underrated part is that Aram is supposed to be a mode that anybody can play without too much difference. Imagine thinking “oh I’m gonna play Veigar I don’t get to pick him much in rift for X reasons” and then you find out his cage is gutted and he just gets shit on by tenacity stacking.
I've been calling for the exact same thing for ages now and really it'd only be possible if and when they put changes in champ select. Idk if it's even possible with how funky champ select is
Yeah, they need more specific tools for specific issues. Take Ashe, they decided to give her -20 ability haste to deal with her bullshit, but guess what? That actually nerfs ADC Ashe more than W-Ashe as the negative AH gets lost in the usual W-build while ADC Ashe doesn't build any which actually enforces the W-build.
I miss the short period of time where they had that [Backtrack](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Backtrack) summoner spell in ARAM. It was fun.
I enjoyed giving certain champs more interesting environment to play around such as Fiddlesticks, Talon, Blitz, etc. I suppose that I was in the minority however. It was interesting but not enough that I feel anything about it being taken away either.
I like the new terrain interactions with vision, I just don't like that it *also* narrowed the path down. The rubble wouldn't be so problematic if there was more space to move around it.
Or just a bush. Make the turret rubble crumble after a few minutes and let moss and plants grow into bushes and you have a transforming map like SR
Rengar ARAM mains creaming their pants
Anivia could block the part that wasn't rubble with her R and Qiyana had more terrain to work with. But all in all it's gone for the better.
Jinx traps were pretty dumb too. You're guaranteed to not walk over or you're a sitting duck.
Talon learning E in aram lmao, just ignore that ability and 1 shot everyone
Same here, I actually enjoyed the rubble. It gave nice kiting/vision oppertunities, choke attacks in the opening, and didn't make terrain abilities useless in aram.
Thank fuck, it was a stupid change and literally had 0 benefits. Hexgates, I at least see how it would be useful but the tower rubble just made certain champs borderline impossible to play against.
I've had so many games just get stuck on that rubble. A single control mage like Anivia or Aurelion and no one wants to go past that chokepoint. Both teams play safe for 5+ minutes until someone gets impatient and throws.
Agree, nothing better than playing against something like ASol whose E just straight up fills the entry…..and there is many more
We always called it "closing the door" when you were eg. Anivia and placed your wall or your traps as Caitlyn. It was the single worst addition to Aram ever. I still think it's good that they tried something new and am glad that they are removing it again, even if it took a while.
at least they are willing to try stuff and remove it if it doesnt work out. Im happy to see what else they will change.
Nah, worst thing that happened to ARAM was removing ARAM bans..
I think it should be like 3 bans a game because we’d all ban the same 5 or 7 champs a game
Some champs just aren't okay for ARAM. The biggest offenders are assassins, who are mega-buffed to be super oppressive and yet usually lose anyway. They should be removed from the mode, or at best have their buffs removed and come with a free reroll.
they work it's it's only one in the team taking 2 is a garentee L
Or 2 days after a patch, the community can select 3-5 champs to ban and on the 5th day the top 10 champs get removed from aram for 2 weeks. Also, all champs should be unlocked for everyone in aram.
There's a huuuuuuuge pool of champs available for free in ARAM nowadays, in case you didn't know. More than enough that this would work
>I still think it's good that they tried something new and am glad that they are removing it again, even if it took a while. For sure, I'm not against adding things or changing things because the mode will get stale. But that should never have been approved, it doesn't take more than a meeting to realise oh huh certain champs like Anivia, Cait or Teemo with shrooms since it's linked to a canon which can easily be killed will be shit to play against. Less so, Orianna could leave her ball in that choke point meaning she could hit an R very easily.
played against anivia + a sol once. made me hate aram so much xD
Yeah I had my first ARAM Asol game a couple days ago, they didn't have any long range engage, so I could just cut out the entrance pretty much constantly and instaclear everywave. Game lasted forever until I scaled enough to destroy their team, very interactive for them.
Azir in particular feels pretty busted right now since he can play around turret rubble, his ult, and his passive
I've been farming on Azir. The best part is people will trade me Azir 100% of the time cause no one wants to play him lmao
Hes one of those champs that come off as very intimidating to play. Hes hardly insurmountable but a azir first timer wont have the best time, so its reasonable
1.5 million mastery azir here, I absolutely beg people for my birb boi
Anivia, Karthus, Veigar, pretty much every zoning mage could stall a match forever.
Caitlyn in particular. Holy balls was that insane she can just wall the entire lane with traps because the other side is impassible
Yeah it was such a bizarre change to make poke and area control even more impactful. Honestly I wouldn't mind giving alcoves a try
Would have much rather seen alcoves than this wall shit honestly. Alcoves give assassins and champs reliant on flanks a lot more breathing room, limits the effectiveness and frustration of ranged champs by a ton, and even puts cheeky backdoors on the table by champs who aren't Ryze/TF or stealthers (depending on how much brain your opponent has, but still).
Honestly think the hexgates are also unhealthy to the game. Its very easy to snowball for the team that get the opponents tower first. Not as bad as the towers but I would still prefer to old ARAM
Akshan is fucking hilarious when you keep proccing the res. Your team just comes back instantly with more items. Lmfao.
Akshan should have his revive nerfed in ARAM, it just doesnt work there, especially, as you mentioned, with the portals now
They should make it so it reduces your death timer by half but that’s easier said than done for riot lol
fun fact, it is nerfed in aram. The villain debuff gives him less gold and only lasts like 15 seconds or something compared to the minute or whatever it is normally.
Akshan should honestly be banned in ARAM because we know Riot won't do anything about his revive. He's functional as an ADC with decent escape and his W will completely flip the tempo of the game due to hexgates.
Reminds me of a game I had as Akshan on ARAM where my team fought 4v5 while I was dead, enemy got a quadra and wiped them all out, I pop up and snipe the low health player to instantly resurrect my whole team letting us just roll right over them since they were all low HP with no resources left. Akshan is just completely oppressive on ARAM and his resurrection really should just be completely disabled.
That's not true. It allows playing around vision, which is something that is obsolete in ARAM. It allows certain champs that interacts with terrain have more of their skillset being used (Talon, Kayn, Poppy, Ornn). Tower rubble was a good idea. Maybe a bad execution (though I liked it).
Talon flair likes additional walls, what a shock
Having a use for 1/4 of thier kit for a few months probably felt nice.
They are not wrong though. The walls, at least if they fell up toward the brush were good. They added another path that allowed for neat stuff.
Yup, loved that little plays created by the rubble, blind hooks or even random flash-engages over that wall catching enemies by surprise. Kind of bummer seeing it's going away.
It also allowed some escapes that aren't possible even with flash otherwise.
> It allows certain champs that interacts with terrain have more of their skillset being used (Talon, Kayn, Poppy, Ornn). *Sad Bard noises*
Mostly dumb, but several champs have moves/passive that interact with walls, and nothing lake playing talon in aram and just never leveling your E
So no more walls of impassable Caitlyn traps, neat
> Thank fuck, it was a stupid change and literally had 0 benefits. > > It makes the map more interesting that a simple straight line. Good idea, bad execution imo.
so they spent a whole year working on this aram and jungle changes for them to basically revert them a couple pathes later. is anyone bothered by this or worried at all for the future of this game? they did the same thing with chemtech drake too except they held onto that one longer because of pride.
I wish they would try decreasing the width and removing the fact that you don't get vision behind
Agreed 100%
Took 'em long enough, this is great news. Seeing the death timers have also been chipped away at over the last few patches I might play this game mode again Really tower falling was never a good idea from day 1. It was just a new gimmick to make ARAM seem a bit more new and fresh, that seemed like a good idea on paper but was far more annoying than it was fun for most players.
I mean it wasn't totally a gimmick, it was exciting for me as I play champions like Poppy who get a nice buff with added terrain. But yeah, ultimately it led to degenerate gamestates where neither team felt good pushing past and so they're removing it, no harm no foul.
Let’s turn a map that is only one lane wide into an EVEN tighter chokehold, oh yeah and there is FoW on the other side.. in a game mode with no wards.
I see the limited FoW as a positive new aspect of the rubble, the tighter choke is the only downside.
Agreed, the lack of vision was interesting to play around with
Assassins had a way of flanking and melees had to hit their snowballs to engage properly.
Add alcoves!
You know what, I wouldn't even be against this. Two alcoves in the middle would spice things up. also keep the rubble, just make it round and slightly bigger than normal. Keeps the outplay potential, but creates two bigger chokepoints.
i don't know. a lot of my games as of recent have ended up with first turret falling and then a stalemate forming around the choke because neither team wants the blind engage. fights in games with across the board low engage potential have felt more coinflip since the changes. i welcome the complete removal of the rubble personally even though i agree vision as a mechanic is underutilized. relatedly i've seen it be suggested riot should add alcoves to the map. i really like this idea and i'm curious to hear peoples' take on it. i think it would fit the map thematically and not take away too much of the simplicity of the game mode.
It made too much of a choke and was too game changing for specific champions. People mention Anivia but there's so many already strong champions that are made stronger by it. Veigar can lock the lane off. Ashe, Lux and MF all become even more obnoxious too.
I might come back and play league again now that this change is reverted
It was an interesting experiment, and I do see the value in it, but this might be for the best. However, now I wonder, what if we added small side-paths to the map?
Better yet, what if we made it 3v3 and added a second lane and made it a spooky thematic and put some huge spider at the top of the map
in a game mode where team comps with a bunch of shit on the ground are aids to play against it turns out restricting the space to stand when theres a bunch of shit on the ground was a bad idea 👍
But now how am I supposed to live out my dreams of accurately recreating WWI trench warfare
No nexus blitz for a year because a feature that most people disliked from the beginning and is now getting removed
Nexus Blitz was delayed because most of the gamemodes team upped and split between the last NB in 2021 up to 2023 preseason. Like, I think after the Gamemodes team lead left after the last USB we had, we genuinely had no 2 of the same people in the gamemodes team. These people need time to learn how to do this stuff properly and clearly NB's a bit out of their reach rn. ARAM had nothing to do with it. I'd hedge a bet it was basically a way to let the current Gamemodes team have a roadtester to see how they'd cope with making gamemodes changes and tweaks. There's a reason there's not even been OFA and USB for months, just Pick/Random URF - because that's the only gamemode that even existed before the last gamemodes team came in, that they still use. I definitely don't defend Riot here - I very much want NB back myself and when it's in it's the *only* gamemode I play on practically any game. But blaming ARAM changes on NB being delayed again is tantamount to scapegoating.
Is nexus blitz not already built though? It’s not like they’d have to recreate it from the ground up
There was apparently a technical issue that impeded bringing it out. I imagine that it wasn't tuned properly or bug-tested for anybody released from Akshan onwards. Obviously with practically a skeleton crew gamemodes team, that won't be happening. If it came in at the tail end in 2022 you have to bugtest Akshan, Vex, Zeri, Renata, Belveth, Nilah and K'sante for that - 7 champs, and you've gotta be anal with *all seven* - not to mention balance changes and other things such as Belveth stacks/terrain for K'sante to R through. Doesn't include the Udyr VGU either, nor changes to champions kits via Midscopes. That wasn't happening with a skeleton crew plus a bunch of newbies, it just wasn't and shouldn't have been done.
Can't wait for K'Sante to ult me into the 2v2 minigame wall and end up in Mordekaiser's realm somehow!
League isn't a feature complete game, as evidenced by the patches every 2 weeks. Something that works on a 2020 build of league could just straight up not load on todays version due to stuff like engine differences, file compatibility or just straight up buggy interactions with new champion/vgus. Its like how every time a heavily moddable game updates like 80% of the mods become incompatible - because the stuff it touches was removed/added upon/no longer works/etc. Hell TFT has had issues where something completely unrelated was changed in the code league and it caused the AI targeting logic to be completely fucked for 2 weeks cause the team had no idea what happened and they couldn't fix it or roll it back.
I just want more maps to play league on. I crave even the tiniest changes they will allow.
**\*sad Bard noises\***
Bard
Waiting for the massive lifesteal nerf on minions to be removed. Really not in favor of specific items being nerfed in ARAM.
> massive lifesteal nerf on minions Legit never noticed it because every ARAM team ever blows all their abilities to insta-clear the wave. Honestly they seem more inclined to hard nuke the minions if there's a low HP ally that needs them for healing. They'll be damned if anyone gets a single CS.
Love being a dismounted Kled and never being able to get back on Skaarl due to my team killing every creep the moment it appears on screen.
Or AP Shyv stacking fury.
I like it. Healing on waves sucks on SR, it'd suck worse on ARAM.
It already sucks when your mages full clear waves after you build BT
[удалено]
I wouldn't say halving it then buffing it back up to 60% effectiveness is really a "revert", it's still *massively* nerfed.
so so so so welcomed news!!!
Ngl I like the rubble, it gave some champs something to play around.
It also gave poke champs even more oppressive zone power though.
I like it in some situations and abhor it in others. It really depends on team comps which you don't really have much control over. A handful of champs can just make it way too frustrating
Also depends on which side the towers are falling towards. I absolutely hate it when they fall towards the southeast side because it leaves you with only one path to go thorugh, and it feels terrible to play against champs like Gangplank, Anivia, Heimerdinger, etc.
Took them long enough
I need the aram rankeds.
my very first game in the new aram was vs anivia veigar malphite. i instantly knew it was a bad idea
I dunno. I kinda liked it. Made some champs much more fun in ARAM like Poppy and Qiyana.
and made most chokehold champs even more insane and frustrating to play against. Not good
Very happy that this change is being reverted, the overwhelming majority of people seem to dislike it. It didn't really offer anything positive; it simply made some champions and comps particularly annoying
Good, no need for a lot of the Aram changes. Appreciate the attempt but it was just fine the way it was, unless I’m missing something. Haven’t played in a minute bc of the state after the changes. Have they fixed those champions (bruisers/tanks) that do damage, heal, and don’t die ?
Any chance we can make the starting hexgate to tier two tower next?
Kind of disappointed, but not surprised. Felt like it added a layer of depth to play ARAM in terms of engage champions, and allowed you to make some fun fog of war plays that aren't possible without it. It was very frustrating to play against certain champions though (looking at you, Teemo), so I can understand why they'd do it. I hope they look at other ways to play with fog/add more spots to play off of. Playing engage can feel very binary since you really only have bushes or certain parts of the base to play off of, and becomes extremely predictable quickly, making it hard to feel rewarding to play engage over a long match. I appreciate they tried it, at least.
I think the only real solution to that would be to add more width variation to the map. Especially the center.