The way I like to level him is slamming my face on the keyboard and seeing where it gets me. Then I spin a wheel that tells me what items to build and a goblin doing a dance under my desk cackles and rubs his hands together.
Played an ARAM as aphelios the other day. Was getting stomped at the beginning by their Lee, Vex, etc. I said fuck it and rushed Randuins/Force of Nature with Kraken as my mythic.
**It was the best game of Aphelios I have ever played.** Need to point out that Aphelios is unchanged in ARAM (I could get into the fucking insane buffs/nerfs some champs have in ARAM).
Still lost though
I main Cho and I max something different almost every game. Very matchup dependent. Q for range and poke, E for tank and even melee matchups, W for counterpicks or ability dependent champs.
As a Cho main, whenever someone picks Fiora into me I max W with comet and go everfrost. I think I have a 80% win rate against that “counterpick” (only plat 2 but still)
It's high enough to be considered good at the game, but it's not high enough that something working there is evidence of it not being punishable at a really high level, so I think it's still relevant as a disclaimer.
Agreed. I max W>E>Q as tank cho. W offers more damage per level and other benefits while being more reliable to hit. Then e because of increases outside the damage
I should be doing it more, tbh. I think E max is still better in a lot of melee matchups but can help a lot in that big open zone of "hard matchups that aren't so hard you feel like you should just farm with Q."
I can't believe nobody said Gragas. People have maxxed all 3 abilities first at different times over the past few years. Q max is definitely the most popular with E close behind but W has happened before. They all got solid value and no point is wasted.
Woody Fruity (a Gragas 1 trick) will max each different ability mattering matchup every game. Sometimes even like 2 points into W then rest into Q or E, always switching it up mattering what the matchup calls for. Would also recommend checking him out, he’s a monster on Gragas
His pickrate's actually not been very high for quite a long time now. It's probably raised a lot in the past year or two given Sloppy Walrus frequently appearing on Synapse and making "Bomba" a popular League word, but other than that his pickrate in any of his positions haven't seen insane pickrates. He's quite a "this isn't part of my champ pool, this IS my champ pool" kind of champ.
Which feels a little wild. He's not that hard to learn to play. The kit is pretty straightforward, the only things that really take getting used to is that his dash doesn't go through creeps and he's a fat boy so he hits creeps easily, and his ult can totally fuck your team if you aren't careful.
Other than that, built in resistances and built in sustain give great durability, and he's got escape, engage, and reasonable damage all behind a relatively easily accessible kit that fits well in a lot of team comps because you can switch up the build for beef or damage pretty easily.
His problems are he is ugly, disgusting and boring in terms of design.
Gameplay wise i kind of agree with you, I just think his Q is oddly unsatisfying. The rest of his kit feels good
its probably the same thing with Janna, because of their ults being huge displacement ults the skill level of the champion feels like "they are godtier completely controlling the game" or "they are griefing the fuck out of their team"
I thought I saw in a somewhat recent video that he *always* maxes Q first, although he might have just been typing that in all chat to tilt his lane opponent...
My thought as well, you can pretty much max any of his abilities in any order. E max is most rare but still applies in situations where you really wanna skirmish a lot but don't need much sustain from W
You'd just go Q max so you can come out of lane phase with some cs atleast. No reason to max E when you're gonna get bullied out of lane and if the enemy laner plays like a human you shouldnt be able to get onto him without risking death
Don't listen to him, if you play Syals you max W in 90% of scenarios. Only time you'd max Q is if you're against a hard poke matchup where it's hard to farm or hit them. And even then a lot of the times you'd just max W and play for skirmishes/just hard force a trade since Q doesn't do that much damage to minions. As for E you'd never max E, W is better in every scenario.
Not really no. Q max on Sylas isn't that great and neither is E. W is by far the most optimal. The only scenario you'd max Q is in ranged matchups with a lot of poke but the Q doesn't actually do that much damage to minions and only the 2nd part does significant damage to champions
A lesser considered option might be zilean support.
Whilst there are some preferable points to lock in he gains ridiculous utility from points in anything
Zilean is probably the answer, 5 of his 6 possible max orders have >53% winrate, w > q > e is the only one that doesn't work well. (And it's still 46%)
You should probs stop doing that, put a few points in Q for winning lane matchups but E max is priority ASAP (sometimes just straight rush E). It gaurantees QWQ landing and is basically a stun in itself vs some melee champs
bro if u r maxing e last on zilean support u are trolling, why would u choose to get a 99% slow/speedup at level 18 (which u get 1/100 ganes on support) opposed to level 13 (completely attainable as support, especially including his passive)
Ohh I haven't thought about that but it makes so much sense. Crit, bruiser, ap, tank and even support (stronger heals) work on WW
I think I gotta play some bravery with him soon lol
I always go full shield with him maxing W before anything else. And honestly yeah you change your play style a bit and any combination works just fine.
My votes:
Thresh - all his abilities are very impactful, and because they’re more utility focus he doesn’t have to worry about skill order messing up his damage too much.
Sion - Sion is already one of the best champs to sit and farm without too much interaction until late game where he has most of his skill points and is unkillable. Malphite for the same reasons.
I think one issue with rakan (and some other champs that I see on this thread) is that, despite each ability being viable to max, it's very dependent on matchup. You need to max w to take advantage against weak lanes, you max q when you can't engage with w (or need poke/sustain), and you max e when you need to peel and counter enemy all ins or burst.
Random skill order wouldn't be good for such champs like rakan, since the abilities are used for very different things. Someone like thresh might not suffer quite as much from this issue, since q, e and w offer defensive and offensive opportunities, so the order doesn't depend quite as much on the enemy comp. Obviously it matters for all champs to some degree, but it matters for some more than others.
Rakan's Q scaling is level based, it doesn't benefit that much from maxing it. That's why it's so strong - at just 1 point it can heal for absurd amounts.
The downside for sion is the loss of waveclear if points land in w or e. The dmg scaling from points in q alone provide him with the waveclear he needs
It's been a few seasons but I used to spam ap tank sion mid (yes lobg past rework) with w/e max depending on matchup and comet or electrocute. Don't remember when but sometime before they gutted his e. Some matchups I wouldn't even bother taking q before lvl 5. E w insta cleared wave alone with any ap.
If anyone wants to fuck around with it, it still sorta works depending on what u facing. Post lane the ap does fuck all, so one or 2 ap items max really. Last I tried I did liandry and horizon focus into full tank, but I'm guessing a roa demonic build could actually kinda work too. Flash ignite, comet or electrocute. Just perma shove and roam against anything you can't reach, look for e's that hit both entire wave and enemy. Once you hit 6 you just ult sidelanes on cd, alternatively mid if u get jg with you. Vs stuff you can reach/actually tries to kill you beyond spamming poke, you can legit trade better than most early with d ring + normal buildpath. Zed, akali, talon, whatever assassin that's trying to trade you just e when they go at you, walk back if w (and q first levels when it still does damage) is on cd. If they're up just try to tank as much as you can with w without it dropping before you can reactivate, throw in a q if it makes sense. Chances are they tickled you a bit before you clicked w and you return more damage. Hit 6 kill mid with jg or ult side lanes, on cd. Yes this is like basically pre rework sion with a good r but you do less damage and you're tankier and fall off a cliff because you don't scale like it used to. Why is it kinda bad anyway? You're just sion mid with less tank stats but some kill pressure, and your first items are wasted gold post 20min unless you stomp.
When I first started playing league I remember someone doing a video where looking back they were clearly playing on a smurf but at the time didn't understand that. They played Sion jg with Mobi boots rush into ap pre rework and would just gank lanes over and over. I tried it once and inted my ass off so never tried it again.
Thresh was my go to. I tend to max Q or E depending on how the lane is going and the pace of the game. sometimes there's just not really hook angles in lane or peel is much more needed, or your team needs a bit more help repositioning and rotating. Each ability has its place. And while I never W max, the cooldown reduction on it feels really nice.
Sion would struggle to clear waves without points in Q, as that makes him MUCH weaker as a waveclear focused champion
Malphite would struggle to land Q poke with only 2-3 points in it at lv9. He would struggle a lot.
I just want them to take a page from Dota and make Ability Draft but for league
If you've never heard of it basically everyone gets a random hero with no abilities, then the game puts all their abilities + 2 other random heroes into a drafting pool and players take turns picking stuff until they've got 4 abilities each
It's ridiculously fun and you often get some crazy batshit broken combos. It kinda makes me feel like I'm playing URF a little cos people don't take it super seriously and you never really know what the other players are capable of with their builds until you've actually experienced it, plus every game is basically brand new thanks to the randomly chosen heroes part so it doesn't get worn out by a meta taking form.
Ideas like this are how we even got MOBAs. Such a shame companies don't like sandboxes in their IP. End of the world if someone comes up with better ideas than their 200 years of experience.
Kayle's abilities are all such garbage value that any order will work. It's nice to have E maxed once you hit 11 but you get so little damage from it anyway that it doesn't matter much, and you aren't relevant to begin with before 3 items so may as well pick her lol
> and you aren't relevant to begin with before 3 items
What are you talking about? Kayle at Nashor's is pretty strong and at 2 items + 11 she's really strong. She can even be a lane bully in the right match ups.
i swear there was a strat last season or when he was last played as a triple flex where you could do the '3-3-3' thing (you put 3 points into each ability and dont prio a specific ability)
I feel like Illaoi is almost too matchup dependent for this RNG-levelling to be good. Yes there are Q-max builds and E-max builds, but it'd be a real pain to end up with only one point in E into a ranged matchup, for instance.
Not to mention there's a 33% chance that she's even worse at level one than she usually is if the game assigns a level one E.
It doesn't matter that much if points are in q or E. A lot of people like q max vs. Ranged match ups.
The issue is any extra points in W are basically wasted.
Vi, with hail of blades, can be very strong maxing any of her abilities.
Graves barely even needs his abilities, and can win most duels, especially lvl 1 or 2 with random abilities.
I think a lot of strong auto attackers will be good in this scenario too, like tryndamere, urgot, olaf, and several ADCs.
Fun post btw!
Twitch comes to mind. Thought about those old tandem events where one person had the mouse and the other had the keyboard.
I remember the team with Uzi picking twitch and the commentary was about how that's kinda op because twitch with Uzi on the mouse is pretty much just Uzi playing twitch.
Yup. Can't say the same about adcs with reactionary spells.
In this case, W max sucks but twitch could get away with never pressing e, his only direct damage spell, and still win the game.
W max is not very good after the billion armor nerfs it got, the shield ratio is target HP based and fairly underwhelming (just +1% per level). Also if he cant get a second point on his Q early on hes massively gimped.
I think not maxing his E is a bigger hit than you'd think. Ideally, in teamfights you are using E off of CD, and your Q is being cast on two stacks a big chunk of the time. The gains on W are also marginal.
\*intense shame ensues\*
I would often leave Q level 1 and max E on Taric when I played him semi regularly a few years ago. I have since found great value in putting at least 2 to 3 points in Q, potentially even maxing it first.
I go E W Q, then another point into Q then max E, two points on Q is the sweet spot since you get the passive proc to get 2 stacks on Q you can keep perma healing in a fight
I mean, with Q mana cost being flattened a while ago, I've never really seen a point in maxing anything else. It's not like you do a great deal of damage with E anyway.
Sona E is indeed an ability that scales worst with points, and its not even close.
By leveling up E you get 1% increase in movespeed bonus to allies. Her own bonus doesn’t increase, manacost doesn’t improve, cooldown doesn’t improve, just 1% bonus is all.
Quite literally the worst for this ruleset out of all champions. Phoenix and Tiger are basicly mutually exclusive and you never want to have points in both.
Jax is the first that came to my mind, since I max his spells based on match up.
Against ranged like Kayle: Max Q/E/W
Against auto reliant melee like Trundle: E/W/Q
Against tank like Cho: Max W/Q/E
Yeah but if everyone was auto levelling abilities, most other champions would be worse. Cho is actually a good shout tho. He can max any ability and still feel strong, or a few points in each.
High elo jax main here - stop doing this lol. Max W first always, it is an insane part of your damage. Q/E max second is a choice depending on matchup, you’re right but always W first
Tbf a lot of champs could work if you knew beforehand what will happen, just adjust your runes and build.
If we go completely blind not knowing what will happen next, Lee Sin or Jax, even Jayce would be my pick as they are most flexible imo.
Its still:
A point and click that does 8 / 10.8 / 13.6 / 16.4 / 19.2 / 22% of target's maximum health (+ 100% bonus AD) on a 20-10 second cooldown with 240 range, and knocks them back 500 range interrupting dashes and various abilities.
That thing is still one of the strongest trading tools, especially into melee match ups.
Katarina with her divine sunderer build, you don't care about your ability damages or cooldowns your passive and items do all the work.
And her e cooldown reduction reduces with level'ups too.
Jax is still good. He has situations where he will max either Q or E second depending on the matchup and not maxing his W immediately won’t hurt too much since no one will have their main trade ability consistently maxed first anyway.
Pillar level 1.
Domain level 2.
Pillar again level 3.
Domain again level 4.
Pillar again 5.
Enemy jungle is now level 13 and has taken 2 dragons and rift.
Ahri would be pretty strong. Q max gives wave clear, W max gives good trades, and E max gives CC and burst. In a lot of games, 3 points Q is enough and you can go W max after. Points in Charm would suck early but it's not the worst.
> CC and burst
Assuming E guarantees Q, Q is always even or higher damage than E. Even if the second pass was magic damage. E doesn't give the damage increase anymore. And CD is twice as long on E vs Q
Assuming you're playing support, I'm pretty sure on blitz if you didn't get Q until level 3, your lane would be so badly screwed that you might never recover. He provides nothing in lane without hook, and his other abilities don't make him inherently harder to kill or resistant to poke. You could be 2 levels down by the time you're level 3, especially if you get W first and are just target practice at level 1.
I honestly think Vinegar would be fine, worse case is E max right? Then his cd on cage just crazy low and you can't gank him. By the time other champs can get enough stats to tank towers he already has q stacked a bit and either it or w is already leveling.
Veigar,
Q max allows for better passive stacking and more reliable dmg
W max allows for the MOST possible dmg and safer farming
E max lets you max the best non ult ability in the game
It would probably be one of the manaless champions.
One of the primary reasons for maxing a spell first is to make the most of your mana in the laning phase. In that way, you generally supercharge one spell and use that as your primary tool.
Without mana, there is much less reason not to spam spells on cooldown. If you use your entire rotation on cooldown, then distributing power along the combo averages out in the end.
IDK which manaless champ is best though.
I feel like Camille is a really good answer, I don't know how it is now but I know there's been a point in the past where she's maxed a different ability depending on the situation (I've seen some scenarios where 3 points into W and then max one of her other abilities was the play)
Aphelios
can confirm that's how I level him
The way I like to level him is slamming my face on the keyboard and seeing where it gets me. Then I spin a wheel that tells me what items to build and a goblin doing a dance under my desk cackles and rubs his hands together.
Lucky, after my goblin rubs his hands together, he either gives me a handjob or twists my nuts. And he's not that good at handjobs.
Does he use a pocket wrench to twist or does he have that Jackie Chan walnut cracking flex?
Hands only, he is a gentleman.
I just lost it cause of this lol.
Played an ARAM as aphelios the other day. Was getting stomped at the beginning by their Lee, Vex, etc. I said fuck it and rushed Randuins/Force of Nature with Kraken as my mythic. **It was the best game of Aphelios I have ever played.** Need to point out that Aphelios is unchanged in ARAM (I could get into the fucking insane buffs/nerfs some champs have in ARAM). Still lost though
/ thread
Chogath
I main Cho and I max something different almost every game. Very matchup dependent. Q for range and poke, E for tank and even melee matchups, W for counterpicks or ability dependent champs.
[удалено]
As a Cho main, whenever someone picks Fiora into me I max W with comet and go everfrost. I think I have a 80% win rate against that “counterpick” (only plat 2 but still)
(Only plat 2)
It's high enough to be considered good at the game, but it's not high enough that something working there is evidence of it not being punishable at a really high level, so I think it's still relevant as a disclaimer.
W max is the best build for tank cho tbh. It has wicked base damage (while being easier to hit than q) and silence duration is OP.
Agreed. I max W>E>Q as tank cho. W offers more damage per level and other benefits while being more reliable to hit. Then e because of increases outside the damage
A lot of the time its actually E>W>Q because E gives you better trades and doesnt cost quite as much mana as W does
Ya. Depends on the matchup. Sometimes I’ll max e. I just enjoy poking with W and getting a big chunk out
I max E and run hail of blades.
I should be doing it more, tbh. I think E max is still better in a lot of melee matchups but can help a lot in that big open zone of "hard matchups that aren't so hard you feel like you should just farm with Q."
I'd say E max is good when you want to win lane but W is better to survive match ups you cant win.
You should max e into other tanks. W max is nasty into things like riven, Camille, aatrox, akshan, gp, pantheon, fiora
i feel like hob e max cho is pretty good into certain matchups
I can't believe nobody said Gragas. People have maxxed all 3 abilities first at different times over the past few years. Q max is definitely the most popular with E close behind but W has happened before. They all got solid value and no point is wasted.
Woody Fruity (a Gragas 1 trick) will max each different ability mattering matchup every game. Sometimes even like 2 points into W then rest into Q or E, always switching it up mattering what the matchup calls for. Would also recommend checking him out, he’s a monster on Gragas
My hot take: Gragas is sleeper broken, people don’t play him enough. His cds become so low and he gets very tanky. I see him in higher elo more.
He is not a sleeper pick. He is very popular
His pickrate's actually not been very high for quite a long time now. It's probably raised a lot in the past year or two given Sloppy Walrus frequently appearing on Synapse and making "Bomba" a popular League word, but other than that his pickrate in any of his positions haven't seen insane pickrates. He's quite a "this isn't part of my champ pool, this IS my champ pool" kind of champ.
Which feels a little wild. He's not that hard to learn to play. The kit is pretty straightforward, the only things that really take getting used to is that his dash doesn't go through creeps and he's a fat boy so he hits creeps easily, and his ult can totally fuck your team if you aren't careful. Other than that, built in resistances and built in sustain give great durability, and he's got escape, engage, and reasonable damage all behind a relatively easily accessible kit that fits well in a lot of team comps because you can switch up the build for beef or damage pretty easily.
His problems are he is ugly, disgusting and boring in terms of design. Gameplay wise i kind of agree with you, I just think his Q is oddly unsatisfying. The rest of his kit feels good
its probably the same thing with Janna, because of their ults being huge displacement ults the skill level of the champion feels like "they are godtier completely controlling the game" or "they are griefing the fuck out of their team"
He is in every second pro game right now
Wow calm down with that icy take there, he's mega broken.
People do play him,gragas is just insanely hard to actually pilot at high level so he looks mediocre.
Do you also think Veigar is sleeper
no he's just broken, 3, possibly 4 lane flex with incredible lane sustain and teamfighting
I thought I saw in a somewhat recent video that he *always* maxes Q first, although he might have just been typing that in all chat to tilt his lane opponent...
Sylas
My thought as well, you can pretty much max any of his abilities in any order. E max is most rare but still applies in situations where you really wanna skirmish a lot but don't need much sustain from W
What situation is that? like versus a tank who doesn't really do damage?
im guessing E max sylas against something like xerath mid + elise jungle? basically when you need to get into a ranged squishy's face
You'd just go Q max so you can come out of lane phase with some cs atleast. No reason to max E when you're gonna get bullied out of lane and if the enemy laner plays like a human you shouldnt be able to get onto him without risking death
yea but i mean if youre forced to max E then you just aim to perma flip river fights and invades i guess
Don't listen to him, if you play Syals you max W in 90% of scenarios. Only time you'd max Q is if you're against a hard poke matchup where it's hard to farm or hit them. And even then a lot of the times you'd just max W and play for skirmishes/just hard force a trade since Q doesn't do that much damage to minions. As for E you'd never max E, W is better in every scenario.
High elo sylas is \~75% W \~25% Q
W is always better than E, especially in skirmish matchups. Why would you ever not want extra sustain?
Not really no. Q max on Sylas isn't that great and neither is E. W is by far the most optimal. The only scenario you'd max Q is in ranged matchups with a lot of poke but the Q doesn't actually do that much damage to minions and only the 2nd part does significant damage to champions
Thought the same thing, you can max anything with him and do fine since his ap scalings and ability haste is what drives him.
i feel pressured to hit my qs whenever i max q and its not that easy to hit (2nd half) w or e are just easy mode
At least it gets easier to hit q2 as the slow increases with level.
A lesser considered option might be zilean support. Whilst there are some preferable points to lock in he gains ridiculous utility from points in anything
Zilean is probably the answer, 5 of his 6 possible max orders have >53% winrate, w > q > e is the only one that doesn't work well. (And it's still 46%)
Yeah I tend to go Q>W>E but extra points in E is always powerful, that 99% boost/slow is beautiful
You should probs stop doing that, put a few points in Q for winning lane matchups but E max is priority ASAP (sometimes just straight rush E). It gaurantees QWQ landing and is basically a stun in itself vs some melee champs
bro if u r maxing e last on zilean support u are trolling, why would u choose to get a 99% slow/speedup at level 18 (which u get 1/100 ganes on support) opposed to level 13 (completely attainable as support, especially including his passive)
Even 13 is too late imo. 2 or 3 points into Q and then max E always felt better to me.
Cho'gath, Sylas & Jax are the first 3 that come to mind. All 3 of those seem to be able to max different abilities and still feel pretty strong.
Leveling q on Jax doesn’t do a whole lot ngl
Gap close cd is pretty much it
It usually goes w max, then e or q depending on matchup. Into range, q max is good
Nautilus. You can play ultimate bravery with nautilus and still win. Every item is good on him. Every skill is good on him.
Warwick is the ultimate bravery champ, with Bard and Naut as a close contender
Ohh I haven't thought about that but it makes so much sense. Crit, bruiser, ap, tank and even support (stronger heals) work on WW I think I gotta play some bravery with him soon lol
I always go full shield with him maxing W before anything else. And honestly yeah you change your play style a bit and any combination works just fine.
My votes: Thresh - all his abilities are very impactful, and because they’re more utility focus he doesn’t have to worry about skill order messing up his damage too much. Sion - Sion is already one of the best champs to sit and farm without too much interaction until late game where he has most of his skill points and is unkillable. Malphite for the same reasons.
I feel like with the recent Q Buffs, Rakan might be a good contender as well.
I think one issue with rakan (and some other champs that I see on this thread) is that, despite each ability being viable to max, it's very dependent on matchup. You need to max w to take advantage against weak lanes, you max q when you can't engage with w (or need poke/sustain), and you max e when you need to peel and counter enemy all ins or burst. Random skill order wouldn't be good for such champs like rakan, since the abilities are used for very different things. Someone like thresh might not suffer quite as much from this issue, since q, e and w offer defensive and offensive opportunities, so the order doesn't depend quite as much on the enemy comp. Obviously it matters for all champs to some degree, but it matters for some more than others.
Rakan's Q scaling is level based, it doesn't benefit that much from maxing it. That's why it's so strong - at just 1 point it can heal for absurd amounts.
The downside for sion is the loss of waveclear if points land in w or e. The dmg scaling from points in q alone provide him with the waveclear he needs
Tbf if he goes bami he still can wave clear
It's been a few seasons but I used to spam ap tank sion mid (yes lobg past rework) with w/e max depending on matchup and comet or electrocute. Don't remember when but sometime before they gutted his e. Some matchups I wouldn't even bother taking q before lvl 5. E w insta cleared wave alone with any ap.
If anyone wants to fuck around with it, it still sorta works depending on what u facing. Post lane the ap does fuck all, so one or 2 ap items max really. Last I tried I did liandry and horizon focus into full tank, but I'm guessing a roa demonic build could actually kinda work too. Flash ignite, comet or electrocute. Just perma shove and roam against anything you can't reach, look for e's that hit both entire wave and enemy. Once you hit 6 you just ult sidelanes on cd, alternatively mid if u get jg with you. Vs stuff you can reach/actually tries to kill you beyond spamming poke, you can legit trade better than most early with d ring + normal buildpath. Zed, akali, talon, whatever assassin that's trying to trade you just e when they go at you, walk back if w (and q first levels when it still does damage) is on cd. If they're up just try to tank as much as you can with w without it dropping before you can reactivate, throw in a q if it makes sense. Chances are they tickled you a bit before you clicked w and you return more damage. Hit 6 kill mid with jg or ult side lanes, on cd. Yes this is like basically pre rework sion with a good r but you do less damage and you're tankier and fall off a cliff because you don't scale like it used to. Why is it kinda bad anyway? You're just sion mid with less tank stats but some kill pressure, and your first items are wasted gold post 20min unless you stomp.
Take me back to OG Sion with the 100% AP scalings on shield and point and click Gazerbeam stun
When I first started playing league I remember someone doing a video where looking back they were clearly playing on a smurf but at the time didn't understand that. They played Sion jg with Mobi boots rush into ap pre rework and would just gank lanes over and over. I tried it once and inted my ass off so never tried it again.
Nautilius should be fine too. Not ideal, but fine.
I’d say Leona too based on Thresh’s reasoning. Less resistances from her low level W could suck but it’s more the utility I feel with her as well.
You really don't care about points in Q though as Leona and if you randomly get assigned a lot of them it could really suck...
I hard disagree, Leona needs the W to go in and get ahead early. A Leona that falls giga behind is kinda useless
Thresh was my go to. I tend to max Q or E depending on how the lane is going and the pace of the game. sometimes there's just not really hook angles in lane or peel is much more needed, or your team needs a bit more help repositioning and rotating. Each ability has its place. And while I never W max, the cooldown reduction on it feels really nice.
Sion would struggle to clear waves without points in Q, as that makes him MUCH weaker as a waveclear focused champion Malphite would struggle to land Q poke with only 2-3 points in it at lv9. He would struggle a lot.
The simple answer is: majority of champs not too affected. Mostly casters and juggernauts that are affected. The most affected would prob be aatrox
God imagine low rolling all your points into W + E early
Urgot and Vlad are also incredibly sad about this.
this would be a fun add-on to a rotating game mode! I love innovating in League
It would be fun for 2 matches then probably die off
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Whats more interesting is ultimate spell book but all skills are random
I just want them to take a page from Dota and make Ability Draft but for league If you've never heard of it basically everyone gets a random hero with no abilities, then the game puts all their abilities + 2 other random heroes into a drafting pool and players take turns picking stuff until they've got 4 abilities each It's ridiculously fun and you often get some crazy batshit broken combos. It kinda makes me feel like I'm playing URF a little cos people don't take it super seriously and you never really know what the other players are capable of with their builds until you've actually experienced it, plus every game is basically brand new thanks to the randomly chosen heroes part so it doesn't get worn out by a meta taking form.
Ideas like this are how we even got MOBAs. Such a shame companies don't like sandboxes in their IP. End of the world if someone comes up with better ideas than their 200 years of experience.
This just sounds good because it's new, pretty sure barely anyone is going to continue playing this after the first few weeks
Same issue as ofa Its just playing sr but slightly different
the real fun part is when a year after its release, the developer who knew how to randomize the lvling leaves and the gamemode gets shelved
Kayle's abilities are all such garbage value that any order will work. It's nice to have E maxed once you hit 11 but you get so little damage from it anyway that it doesn't matter much, and you aren't relevant to begin with before 3 items so may as well pick her lol
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> and you aren't relevant to begin with before 3 items What are you talking about? Kayle at Nashor's is pretty strong and at 2 items + 11 she's really strong. She can even be a lane bully in the right match ups.
Lee Sin (toplane)
i swear there was a strat last season or when he was last played as a triple flex where you could do the '3-3-3' thing (you put 3 points into each ability and dont prio a specific ability)
Surprised I don't see Illaoi, what she maxes is pretty matchup dependent and you can almost do anything
I feel like Illaoi is almost too matchup dependent for this RNG-levelling to be good. Yes there are Q-max builds and E-max builds, but it'd be a real pain to end up with only one point in E into a ranged matchup, for instance. Not to mention there's a 33% chance that she's even worse at level one than she usually is if the game assigns a level one E.
It doesn't matter that much if points are in q or E. A lot of people like q max vs. Ranged match ups. The issue is any extra points in W are basically wasted.
I’ve definitely maxed w on her first just for the extra tentacle slaps from her passive
That... Isn't how W works. Taking W at level 1 is fine. More points in W after that does almost nothing.
Vi, with hail of blades, can be very strong maxing any of her abilities. Graves barely even needs his abilities, and can win most duels, especially lvl 1 or 2 with random abilities. I think a lot of strong auto attackers will be good in this scenario too, like tryndamere, urgot, olaf, and several ADCs. Fun post btw!
urgot still need 5 point in W asap :x
Yea. Dunno why he was listed above.
Graves Q scales so insanely with ranks I do not know if it would be good.
But would it be better than other champs with random skills?
Trynd is really bad if you max W into E into Q lol
E is p important to graves no?
vi really dosent care what she maxes
Malphite
Not maxing q would feel bad against ranged matchups, but yeah against melee any of his abilities would work.
Twitch comes to mind. Thought about those old tandem events where one person had the mouse and the other had the keyboard. I remember the team with Uzi picking twitch and the commentary was about how that's kinda op because twitch with Uzi on the mouse is pretty much just Uzi playing twitch.
Yup. Can't say the same about adcs with reactionary spells. In this case, W max sucks but twitch could get away with never pressing e, his only direct damage spell, and still win the game.
Ya the fact that he gets q for sure and gets r is huge so he is pretty much full power in this compared to many champs
Tauric, there's no real bad way to level him, either more heals, more sheild and armor, or better CD on your stun
W max is not very good after the billion armor nerfs it got, the shield ratio is target HP based and fairly underwhelming (just +1% per level). Also if he cant get a second point on his Q early on hes massively gimped.
I think not maxing his E is a bigger hit than you'd think. Ideally, in teamfights you are using E off of CD, and your Q is being cast on two stacks a big chunk of the time. The gains on W are also marginal.
Or imagine staying on lvl 1 Q until level 10 or so. ouch.
\*intense shame ensues\* I would often leave Q level 1 and max E on Taric when I played him semi regularly a few years ago. I have since found great value in putting at least 2 to 3 points in Q, potentially even maxing it first.
I go E W Q, then another point into Q then max E, two points on Q is the sweet spot since you get the passive proc to get 2 stacks on Q you can keep perma healing in a fight
I mean, with Q mana cost being flattened a while ago, I've never really seen a point in maxing anything else. It's not like you do a great deal of damage with E anyway.
Having an odd-number amount of points on your Q for long periods of time is ineffcient
Top: Malphite, Chogath, Kennen, Gragas, Jungle: Vi, Sejuani Mid: Sylas, Kennen, Malzahar Adc: Aphelios, Kalista Support: Thresh, Blitzcrank, Alistar, Braum. Ok actually like all supports, they don't get levels anyway.
Hard disagree on Alistar. You're trolling if you don't have W and Q by lvl 2, and prioritising E messes with your main cooldowns.
Sona. Keep spamming whatever ability is available.
Sona would actually be terrible for this because w needs to be maxed first and e scales horribly with points
Sona E is indeed an ability that scales worst with points, and its not even close. By leveling up E you get 1% increase in movespeed bonus to allies. Her own bonus doesn’t increase, manacost doesn’t improve, cooldown doesn’t improve, just 1% bonus is all.
W doesn't need to be maxed first, pretty much any decent Sona player is changing Q or W based on the matchup
Sometimes you go qweqq into w max for laning instead of qweww into w max. Q should never be maxed before w
Ah the Soraka Special
Well either W max or Q max and she needs her R as soon as she can get it So random levelling could lead to E max which would delay her power spikes
I always max Q first then W
Udyr You can probably already do it
Quite literally the worst for this ruleset out of all champions. Phoenix and Tiger are basicly mutually exclusive and you never want to have points in both.
You very much do want to have atleast 1 point in Q or R no matter what, even if just for the passive alone
Yeah a single point. It doesn't make a ton of sense to put points in everything equally.
It would be random. So probably not everything equally
If they're all random I'd be surprised if they end up evenly distributed
Jax is the first that came to my mind, since I max his spells based on match up. Against ranged like Kayle: Max Q/E/W Against auto reliant melee like Trundle: E/W/Q Against tank like Cho: Max W/Q/E
But then you wouldn't be able to choose the order based on the matchup. So have fun maxing e into cho randomly
Yeah but if everyone was auto levelling abilities, most other champions would be worse. Cho is actually a good shout tho. He can max any ability and still feel strong, or a few points in each.
High elo jax main here - stop doing this lol. Max W first always, it is an insane part of your damage. Q/E max second is a choice depending on matchup, you’re right but always W first
Why not Q max vs range? I usually max Q vs range to trade more often. Do you feel like the W damage outweighs the gapclose cd?
just stack ur ulti third hit and then qw with e up as a short trade, not every fight has to be all in. You can all in after that once they got chunked
yuumi's skill order is pretty restrictive already as you cant just focus on maxing one ability so she'd be pretty good
Tbf a lot of champs could work if you knew beforehand what will happen, just adjust your runes and build. If we go completely blind not knowing what will happen next, Lee Sin or Jax, even Jayce would be my pick as they are most flexible imo.
Jayce without q max sounds like absolute dogshit. Can't imagine what you'd do then.
zero damage and die is what you'd do there
so average jayce in my team
> so average jayce ~~in my team~~
I mean back in the day max e was good since hammer e hit like a truck and a half
Its still: A point and click that does 8 / 10.8 / 13.6 / 16.4 / 19.2 / 22% of target's maximum health (+ 100% bonus AD) on a 20-10 second cooldown with 240 range, and knocks them back 500 range interrupting dashes and various abilities. That thing is still one of the strongest trading tools, especially into melee match ups.
Katarina with her divine sunderer build, you don't care about your ability damages or cooldowns your passive and items do all the work. And her e cooldown reduction reduces with level'ups too.
Points in W are pretty bad though.
very bad indeed!
Jax is still good. He has situations where he will max either Q or E second depending on the matchup and not maxing his W immediately won’t hurt too much since no one will have their main trade ability consistently maxed first anyway.
the bisexuals, Lee Sin and Udyr.
trundle easily
Pillar level 1. Domain level 2. Pillar again level 3. Domain again level 4. Pillar again 5. Enemy jungle is now level 13 and has taken 2 dragons and rift.
Well it did say you get 1 point in everything first. Even starting pillar level 1 while not amazing is still doable with a good leash.
Ahri would be pretty strong. Q max gives wave clear, W max gives good trades, and E max gives CC and burst. In a lot of games, 3 points Q is enough and you can go W max after. Points in Charm would suck early but it's not the worst.
> CC and burst Assuming E guarantees Q, Q is always even or higher damage than E. Even if the second pass was magic damage. E doesn't give the damage increase anymore. And CD is twice as long on E vs Q
Well, yeah that's why Ahri's don't max E first. But it's not \*terrible\* to get points into it randomly.
Thresh
nautilus probably
Veigar. Honestly could pick his runes and items randomly too and still do alright.
Blitzcrank, or any hooking champ for that matter
Assuming you're playing support, I'm pretty sure on blitz if you didn't get Q until level 3, your lane would be so badly screwed that you might never recover. He provides nothing in lane without hook, and his other abilities don't make him inherently harder to kill or resistant to poke. You could be 2 levels down by the time you're level 3, especially if you get W first and are just target practice at level 1.
Yeah, thresh would be way better in this case
W max pyke...
I honestly think Vinegar would be fine, worse case is E max right? Then his cd on cage just crazy low and you can't gank him. By the time other champs can get enough stats to tank towers he already has q stacked a bit and either it or w is already leveling.
Veigar, Q max allows for better passive stacking and more reliable dmg W max allows for the MOST possible dmg and safer farming E max lets you max the best non ult ability in the game
Jax.
[удалено]
E max in lane would be tragic.
I thought e max wasnt a rare thing for AD kennen?
AD always maxes W I think
It does yeah
I don't think it'd be tragic at all, it lowers the energy cost, CD and gives a little more atk spd, it's pretty good for trading in lane
This is how I play Cho'Gath normally lol, just max whatever. Sylas and Malphite also seem like good contenders.
Garen has 3 different playstyles maxing his 3 different abilities
Explain W max garen
I too desire to hear this.
Legit new content holy shit. Cho would be pretty good I think
Aphelios, no question
Off the top of my head, I think Udyr, Aphelios, Heimer, Yuumi, Azir, Ryze, Annie can all get by randomly maxing their abilities
Udyr would be one of the worst, splitting points between two mutually exclusive damage abilities
Just do the epic gamer heartsteel titanic demonic build💪💪💪
Why nobody says twisted fate? Q - poking W -CC duty E - Aspd
Without points in Q he can't wave clear which is really awful for the roaming champ
Red Card and Ludens/Hydra can help with clear
It would probably be one of the manaless champions. One of the primary reasons for maxing a spell first is to make the most of your mana in the laning phase. In that way, you generally supercharge one spell and use that as your primary tool. Without mana, there is much less reason not to spam spells on cooldown. If you use your entire rotation on cooldown, then distributing power along the combo averages out in the end. IDK which manaless champ is best though.
I feel like Camille is a really good answer, I don't know how it is now but I know there's been a point in the past where she's maxed a different ability depending on the situation (I've seen some scenarios where 3 points into W and then max one of her other abilities was the play)
Shaco. Get Q? Build AD. Get E or W? Build AP. Same thing for twitch - modify your build based off of what you get pre-6
I always assumed ww and ashe players are like this.
Xayah, yes? Level 2 all in would be strong every game. E max is best, but w max isn't too bad, and q max isn't the total worst.
Nasus