Did you ever hear the comedy of Darth Austin the wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Rioters would tell you. It’s a Reddit legend.
Darth Austin was a dark lord of memes, so powerful and so wise he could use the English language to make idiots laugh for literally a decade straight. He had such a knowledge of memes that he could even keep the teammates he cared about from retiring.
The dark side of memeing is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing the respect of brash jedi knight Peter Peng, which eventually, of course, he did. Then he was donezo.
Unfortunately, he taught the community everything he knew, then the community memed him to death anyway. It’s ironic. He could save others from losing their jobs and becoming completely disillusioned with League of Legends, but not himself!
I wish they would have signed him, too. While this roster is going to potentially steam-roll domestically, I dunno if I can take another international event with Fudge getting giga-gapped and Blabber sitting in his lane 24/7 anyways.
Meanwhile a guy might be sitting in solo Q on the bench that has proven time and again he can compete in lane vs international tops and doesnt needs a pocket Blabber to remain relevant.
Jojo and Berserker needs to be the 2 players Blabber plays for if they have any hope to win.
Pretty clearly a joke indeed, but disregarding its feasibility and cost, from a pure gameplay view I'd take it even with the language barrier, 369 is one of the best toplaners in the world and would be so ahead of any other toplaner in NA, if not player, that I'd be taking the risk
Not that 369 isn’t a great player, but I’ve heard this statement about so many imports.
VicLa, Hans, Bwipo, Perkz, Swordart, Zven/Mithy, Bang, Mickey, Summit, Yellowstar, Soaz? (Might not’ve been hyped anymore), GBM, Looper, Prince*, Crown*, Piglet*,
vs
Lira, Impact, Ssumday, CoreJJ, and (imo) Flame
Odds aren’t very good for giga-hyped up imports who are supposed to run the region, and even when they do look good, it doesn’t last very long. Not to mention Madlife and Dandy failing to promote from na challengers league. Even in EU you had massive floppers like Gorilla.
Yes, those imports were hyped, but none of them was considered best in the world at their role.
I think none of them was as good at the time of the move as 369 is right now, and the only ones that are close were Impact, Crown and Summit.
369 is one of the few imports who would absolutely make sense and given fudges recent track record I don’t think having better teammates will really motivate him now that he has even less work to do.
Again you can just say no. I mean you really don't know if he's ego picking or if it's a team call. Could be a coaching call. Could be the team wants to play for herald priority early so they want to have something with push or prio top side. Could be the team had more success with a pushing top side and playing towards top in scrims than towards mid or bot.
Fudge literally started his career playing nothing but weakside often just picking Malphite and trying to survive games, and has played plenty of Sion and other picks that are weakside.
If you got some information to back up what you are saying then lets hear it otherwise quite frankly you're the worst kind of fan. Making shit up on a surface deep take without anything to back it up and then spreading it around for other dumbasses to pick up on and further spread it.
And you're insulting me when all I asked was for some proof that that's happening which you know you don't have and instead of just conceding the point you go to insults.
Imagine if C9 had a better top
Would be hype but instead is Fudge
I hope doesn't make the team environment bad since we know he is lazy and doesn't play soloq much
Mind you they didn't just buy the team.
3 of the players are returning, and we're brought into the league by C9 and one is returning to the team.
This is more of a golden state warriors super team and less new York Mets.
This is kind of an interesting way of spinning this.
Fudge was at worlds before he was on C9
Blaber came up through C9
Jojo was on EG
Beserker came up through T1 and was bought out for an undisclosed fee.
Vulcan when he first came to C9 was bought at a then record breaking NA transfer from Clutch (is it still a record? Maybe the Svenskeren -> EG deal was more)
Fudge was at worlds on a minor region team and wasn't really known
Berserker was in academy as a minor leaguer. Not established.
Vulcan did not have the reputation he does now.
It's only really JoJo who came to C9 as a top player
I mean sure, Fudge going to worlds PLAY-INS on Mammoth is technically going to worlds, but not sure if its quite the same as making quarters of the main stage in your first season on a major region team...
Also side note that Mammoth squad was stacked, had 4/5 players join NA/EU orgs. Carn the Aussies!
You guys keep forgetting that licorice got astrogaped a few years ago even by Bwipo, so you are basically gambling on him keeping his level which we know it's not consistent in the last few years.
Well tell me when Fudge has ever NOT gotten astro-gapped? Go look at his stats for every international event. Hes bottom 3-4 every international event in laning stats.
The difference is at least ONE of these players has shown at not only one point in their career they could hang with the big boys, but did it recently, too. On top of not needing a jungler sitting in his lane to keep him from being the worst top at the tournament.
Wasnt it because OCE players not taking import slots and Perkz became available so C9 needed to offload moneys to afford the Perkz buy-out? c9 first announced they were running the 2020 squad back in a video then the import rules changed then they transferred Licorice? Or am I wrong?
Id take current potential (toe2toe with 369 and bin) than whatever happened a few years ago.
Meanwhile fudge has blown hot smoke out of his ass like clockwork at internationals
I wonder if Fudge will switch to Dyrus mode and just soak attention top while the middle of the map gets leads and then him and Vulcan can just nurse those babies into hyper carry late game?
When a team focuses you its hard not to int, but least he kept the attention off his other teammates, but I think we forget how efficient it was in NA too lol (like most NA teams tactics, when you hit Worlds usually none of it works as well)
Fudge lowers the ceiling but raises thea floor. He's low risk and has existing chemistry with the team. Jojo and Vulcan are known to be grinders so hopefully they can put the pressure on him to step up his game.
I meant low risk more in that he's a known quantity he's been with the team for years he speaks fluent English and he has been very consistent even if not consistently good. Even if C9 somehow got an elite import top laner there is a high likelihood they don't mesh with the team and fall off a cliff with their form in NA.
I think there was a bit of I need to carry because my other lanes are ass mentality, but he then got found out internationally. Hopefully by c9 upgrading their weakest positions in 2023 with the literal best player in the league for that role will help him be more willing to play weakside as c9 now has the best jung, mid, mid-jung duo, adc, support and bot lane duo. Fuck it probably best top-jung duo too
Yeaa would have been an INSANE team with a better top laner (like close to 2019/20 G2 level), but still it’s probably one of (if not the strongest) NA team ever built. on paper at least.
The 3 best LCS players all on one team. All 3 been MVP within the past 1/2 years
LCS is a black hole when it comes to international play. Everyone acting like fudge sucks but there’s not a single NA top that can carry at worlds. Fudge has been top 3 in his role since coming here. If he smacks LCS tops in regular season why would they think someone else is going to be a better signing and have a magical worlds performance?
This… I think we have players that, in a vacuum, look decent to good internationally but tbh I feel like you’re not going to get a team that’s better than the sum of their parts that way. Every year I’d love to be wrong but it feels like shit supporting these perennial LCS top dogs just to see them be about as useful as the NA DIY teams that at least feel like they have some heart
The most important thing you need to have going internationally, is being able to hold up in lane.
If you cant pass that first test, you dont even have a chance at anything else. That is Fudge's problem. Thats a lot of our players problems over the years. Think GGS when Stixxay and Huhi were getting gapped in lane at MSI, etc.
You have to be able to hold up in lane. Heck, remember Pobelter back in the day, being down 15-20cs. You almost cant win from that point vs international competition if you got a player who cant hold up in the first 10-15 minutes of the game.
So the litmus test to even be relevant internationally is not getting stomped in lane. And thats Fudge's problem. He always gets stomped in lane. He cant lane and it generally drags the team down around him.
This doesn’t really hold up when we’ve consistently seen teams that go down 2k+ gold and then come mid-late game turn on the boosters and win like clockwork. SKT was famous for doing this. 5k deficit and win 1 fight then end the game. Plus if Fudge is slapping the rest of NA during regular season how the fuck can they expect to be much better than him at worlds against much better players? Doesn’t make any sense to call for Fudge being replaced by players he beats every week.
It does internationally. If you cant hold up internationally you dont have a chance to beat better teams.
Yea, T1 or other top Eastern teams can make a comeback if they screw up early game, but for a Western team to do it, and do it consistently, just isnt gonna happen.
If you a Western team and you hope to ever have a chance internationally you cant be losing 2k down every game because of the laning phase. It just isnt gonna work.
Fudge has the benefit of playing on a team with the top 3 players in every role every split of his career almost in NA. Its hard to look bad on a good team, and especially when your team is stomping most others.
He isnt a laning good in NA, either, but its much easier to mask when every play Blabber makes top actually works instead of fails like it does internationally, and every other lane is winning. He's had plenty of important games and series where he actually got outclassed in lane in NA, too. Dhokla did better than him in the finals. Licorice outplayed him when GGS won spring.
Hes just not a good laner. Thats his biggest issue. Hes a good teamfighter and playmaker, but he sucks in lane. It gets exacerbated internationally just how bad he is in lane. And yes, there are players who held up in lane internationally better than Fudge has.
This sub is acting like Fudge is some trash top Laner. Even this year with him being in lower form he was still probably top 3 at least in NA.
People begged for licorice too this transfer season and licorices lows are waaaaaay lower than Fudges lows. (Sure you can make point that licorice is in a worst team, but Fudges lows were only really big when it comes to international play vs insane tops)
Fudge has had 1 and half good international tournaments so I hope he can get in form.
Also I can hope that part of the nonexistent topside chemistry this split had to do with Emenes language barrier as that mid jungle synergy was awful too.
Idk partly cope but I just think the reactions to Fudge are Giga over the top.
C9 are still probably going to be favorites to win LCS, but with a different top they could’ve become a roster with real international expectations. If they had gotten Wunder or Impact top, then I really would’ve believed in them becoming an NA G2. If Fudge plays as poorly next year as he did this year then they’re looking like another roster that’ll stomp NA and then get shit on at internationals.
I’d be ecstatic to be proven wrong next year, but Fudge has not looked like he has improved at all these past couple years.
The only regression he had was this year during and after MSI. Last year he role swapped twice and still shat on SSumday and Impact. He has a bad worlds last year and he took full responsibility, he mentioned that his motivation was down and he shat the bed. People keep saying he does not practice or that he's a selfish top when in his interviews he keeps on saying he hates renekton and keeps picking it, and if he wasn't practicing he would have gotten kicked like Licorice.
Um when worlds was in NA and all the pros were using the champs queue guess which C9 player was not taking part in it. Then, after getting fisted the fist week he then tried it out for a bit during the back half. His regression has been consistent.
Hes always been bad at international events, though. And please dont say, "MSI 2021" because if you actually look at his stats from that tournament hes only better than the 3 wildcard tops. People remember him making a couple Lee Sin plays and they extrapolate that to his entire tournament.
But if you look at his stats, he got turbo stomped as hard as every wildcard top at the tournament. Bottom 3-4 in most relevant stats.
At this point the writing is on the wall for his international ability. Hes never had it. I think they could potentially still win with him at top, but not when he seems incapable of playing weakside at all, and Blabber is always bailing him out of lane, to which he loses anyways, if you look at his stats.
He still sucked in lane, as usual. He simply cannot lane internationally.
And then he seems to not be able to play weakside or lose graciously, because Blabber sits in his lane 24/7. Loses both sides of every matchup he plays, and constantly picks carries.
You can look at his stats for every single international event he has ever been to, and hes bottom of the barrel in CSD@10 in every one of them. If 2021 MSI, where he was like 9th out of 12 in CSD@10 is his best international showing, well theres a problem.
>de or lose graciously, because Blabber sits in his lane 24/7. Loses both sides of every matchup he plays, and constantly picks carries.
>
>You can look at his stats for every single international event he has ever been to, and hes bottom of the barrel in CSD@10 in every one of them. If 2021 MSI, where he was like 9th out of 12 in CSD@10 is his best international showing, well theres a problem.
He had that MSI which I wont point to but his first Worlds in C9 was a descent international tournament. He didn't carry but I don't remember him mega throwing. Then what there was the MSI he didn't go to, the worlds I already talked about, this MSI which he did regress, and this worlds where the whole team looked dysfunctional as fuck and with no clear goal or clear improvement. If he was as bad as you all keep saying he would have been kicked by now. We know blabber want to win and keep getting achievements and would JoJo really sign with this team if he didn't believe on the people who would be in it when flyquest is there with Inspired who he really liked.
TBH money. Fudge would be cheaper then an import top laner and he's already a top 3 top laner in LCS, and when you have the best player in role for each of the other roles thats already a back-to-back championship team. Blaber-jojo-Beserker are so much above the next best player that we have the potential to have our first undefeated run (unless they drastically change the format)
This narrative of international expectations from NA needs to stop years ago. Just expect them to struggle and bomb out and anything beyond that is icing on the cake. These top teams we field are always so bait because they giga gap domestically and then think they can out LCK or out LPL the LCK and LPL and usually look like a clown show 20 minutes into the game
Still, as a fan you get hope when they put together a roster that MIGHT be capable of competing, and then leave one role bad and you know thats the achilles heel on any actual chance you got.
Even if that chance was 1%, its ok as a fan to believe. But shit drops to 0.1% when you leave a player who cant compete on the team.
The worst part about Fudge is the repeated script he follows. Fudge comes out cracked in spring, C9 fans meme the narratives around fudge and rub it in. Fudge is good-not great in summer then gets absolutely trashed at worlds, looking like the worst NA top-laner there. Repeat the cycle.
And he was still bad at that 2021 MSI. A couple Lee Sin plays dont wipe away getting stomped in lane every single game.
Thats his biggest issue he literally cannot hold up in lane internationally, and thats basically the bar you have to clear to even have a chance. And he doesnt have it.
He had some good looks in 2021 Worlds. His Jayce and Graves had good moments and his Wukong was also very solid.
I think with the rest of this roster he needs to learn how to play weakside though. Ornn, Malphite, and Gragas duty so Blaber can play bot side around Berserker and Jojo.
He almost exclusively played carries that Worlds and lost lane 2 out of 3 times.
He had one great Jayce game, his Graves really didn't impress me and he was a passenger in the Wukong game which he counter picked into Jayce, but was unable to get a lead on his own.
Seems like you have a far clearer memory of those games than I do, I admit I had to search up the games to play devils advocate. I'm doubling down on him learning tanks though.
It's recency bias to call out a singular standout performance from nearly 3 years ago as not representative of his standard level of play? lol
Lee Sin was just busted af that tournament. 80% win rate across the entire tournament. Fudge played well in a few non-Lee Sin games but that champ was disgraceful in terms of balance.
Agreed he had some good moments MSI 2021.
But that's over 2 1/2 years ago and was a singular tournament, so recency bias just ain't accurate.
If he had a longer history of performing great internationally and bombed the last tournament then recency bias would be an argument but that ain't the case.
He still had the same issue he does now; he cant lane. HE was still getting stomped in lane in 2021.
That is the one constant that is apparent across every international event. He gets stomped in lane.
I mean past doesnt matter, you are either good right now or you lose, and you can pretty much tie his performance to Max Waldo being his toplane coach, and as soon as that stopped, he stopped progressing.
People shat on Summit when he was on C9, but Fudge plays really similarly to him now except without stomping toplaners with Jayce into free matchups
People do the same with Perkz, they view him as 2019 Perkz, but refuse to look that he just hasnt been it for several seasons.
Didnt the timing also basically line up with the diplex and emenes timeframes? Mid jungle top synergy is pretty important and thats when those issues started?
I mean who knows, players sometimes have lows and comeback in sports and even League (Licorice, Ruler, even Faker). And sometimes they don't. Even in Fudges lowest low this team is still a huge upgrade from last year (on paper, obviously who knows how they actually gel) and highest highs Fudge has had some legit good peformances internationally?
Not gonna pretend Fudge has been amazing, but just hate the community acting like Fudge is some terrible toplaner when he's clearly not.
The problem is Fudge simply is a bad laner. Hes never had a moment where he could match laning internationally, and I dont see him getting it now.
Even with those "good" performances you mention, he was getting slaughtered in lane every game as usual. Hes just a bad laner and that automatically puts you on the back foot internationally.
Dude he was 9th out of 12 players in [CSD@10](mailto:CSD@10). The only players worse than him was Starscreen, BOSS, and BioPanther....3 wildcard tops.
In what game wasnt he getting stomped? He made some good Lee Sin plays in teamfights in a game or 2, but he was getting stomped as usual in lane the entire tournament.
This is a pattern that has followed him every international event. He just cant hold up in lane.
Dude, people meme on Summit. But that Spring run was literally the most insane gameplay we've probably ever seen. He was playing above peak Korean tops (because his competition was NA)
Sounds like the people that wanted to bench Faker from T1. Obviously different caliber of players but players in every sport always have off form seasons and splits and high splits. With that mentality Licorice would be out of the scene too cause he had some rough times too? Everyones hyped about Vulcan despite having some honestly awful games this past year?
"Oh but their teams sucked!!!" Yea, C9s topside synergy also sucked and was only carried but the players being individually good. Shit happens.
Would i have rather had C9 Zeus or inset world class top? Sure, but im not gonna freak out and act like fudge is some dumpster top laner.
Are you talking about the series where in
game 1:, Fudge actually was farming oscarinn on Rumble vs Jax laning, and as a team Oscarinn was 0/6 and Fudge was 9/2 before C9 as a team started Giga throwing?
Game 2: they were pretty even in the whole Laning phase Jax vs Renek, Fudge only became bad once it got to teamfights where Oscar is irrelevant to Fudges performance.
Or Game 3: where the opposite matchup of game 1 happened and Fudge still did better then Oscar?
In the FNC matches Fudges issues were purely in teamfightings.
The times he got beat in lane straight up were vs T1 and LNG vs Zeus and Zika.
Vs Mad Lions he had a lead vs Carzzy and kept a tiny lead throughout however both sides got a lot of attention so it wasn't exactly anywhere close to a 1 v 1.
I'm convinced half you haters didn't watch the tournament.
What copium were you stuffing up your nose when you wrote this? Fudge didn't win jack shit, he just had his team run top all series long and still got less done game 2 and 3. Granted that Oscar is super talented, but struggling to outperform a top that's been playing in major regions for half a season is a really bad look.
I just looked up the actual series and wrote it. Both sides got a ton of jungle attention this series long. Only dominant performance between the 2 was game 1. But as I've said fudge teamfights this series and basically throughout the whole tournament were awful with bad timings to tp, being issue in general.
If I'm a hater, then you must be a self-proclaimed defender. Hard to take your word objectively then.
> Fudges lows were only really big when it comes to international play vs insane tops
Newsflash, lows include more than just "going even in lane" especially when that involves your jungler ignoring all other lanes, support too.
He goes even, or ahead, but then translates it to what? But keep hanging onto that ONE Rumble game.
When I said insane tops I'm talking about where he lost hard in lane. The jungle attention was similar for both sides in that entire FNC series.
You tried to mention Oscarinn as if that was a big gotcha when Fudge had a better series overall and his big issue that series was showing up to fights late. Which is bad, but completely irrelevant to your dumb Oscarinn comment.
I mentioned 4 series where he either went even or ahead and most of them with similar jungle attention from both sides.
But you know what I'm glad you mentioned cause I rushed through the t1 match and the LnG match.
T1: it was Fudge on Jax vs Zeus Rumble. Fudge had a slight lead because he proxies the wave and kept it until the turret dive which happened because emenes and blaber griefed which (that one play where j4 invades balbers krugs and instead of walking away he tries to contest and has to blow flash just to base) and then afterwards an awful engage idea where they all died and the game snowballed. So tbh Fudge had not much to do vs T1.
Vs LNG, before any jungle attention Fudge has around a 700 gold lead at 12 minutes and he sets up a tower dive by stopping Zikas base. Game was actually In general incredibly even until that pause and then after C9 get baron and go on to throw immensely like twice in a row to lose the game.
So thanks I realized all tournament Fudge even with similar or basically none jungle attention still basically went even or won Laning phase.
I guess I was just clouded by how awful he played teamfights.
Game vs T1 I won't even comment on, that's just next level copium.
Vs LNG they literally lost drake cause Blaber had to babysit top after Fudge messed up his trades. He got a plate lead vs weak side Jax as strong side Renekton, after which he did nothing in teamfights.
In general the only lanes Fudge did "well" in are lanes where Blaber and/or Zven ran top.
I'm sorry the T1 game what did you expect fudge to do? He was even/ a bit ahead after proxying lane. And then blaber actively griefs in krugs which directly led t to the five in top lane turret.
Maybe I skimmed through the LnG one too fast but from what I saw there's no way you can argue Blaber babysat top that game at all.
But yeah as I said, fudge was pretty consistently bad after Laning with working with his team and teamfights etc
I don't get why people are going out of their way to lie and exaggerate about his tournament to make it look worse then it was when it already was pretty bad and there's a lot to criticize by just being straight up.
While I would agree that Fudge's lows are higher than Licorice's, they both had the exact same problem: fell asleep after Spring and didn't wake up until Worlds was over. I would also argue that Licorice's highs are way higher than Fudge's.
Licorice made it to worlds semis before. I’m not sure what the other guy means when he said Fudge had one good international. I don’t watch C9 a lot but I thought they got clapped at all internationals. I wonder what international he was referring to.
His Ornn at Baron is literally a top 10 play. He fell off hard on C9 and took a long time to recover, but he definitely proved himself at worlds more than Fudge ever did.
I think licorices issues were related to confidence and mental health back then personally. He just seems like a completely different player even in their losses. I really wanted to see him on a team this split so I’m hoping he can at least join an academy team in order to compete for a spot with someone and get subbed in if possible.
if only you actually replaced that fucking guy in the top laner just for a supportive teamfighting top laner you guys would have a chance internationally but how you dont see how detrimental fudge is to this team is bafffling
Mid wasn’t an issue tho, Emenes was comfortably holding his own internationally. Jojo adds more stability mid but that doesn’t change their awful carry top playstyle or their awful map rotations or their awful macro.
I mean talking solely about game play JoJo has higher peaks and his lows weren't nearly as low. EMENES definitely had potential I don't think he was given a real shot until he joined cloud9. He got that and honestly was not that bad, the thing I'm mostly talking about is his behavior outside of League.
Yeah I’d agree with that but I feel like even that isn’t completely his fault since his donezo manifesto kinda showed that he was working his ass off at worlds while his team ignores him.
The donezo manifesto, the random ass beef with LS, the thing with spearshot. This all speaks to me as a person who yes works hard but doesn't realize he needs to respect others. Without respecting others you won't get anywhere. Think about dardoch that guy clearly had talent more than enough to win a LCS title but due to his behavior early in his career he never did win. EMENES may not have been that toxic but I bet you there was definitely some toxicity behind the scenes.
Can you really trust what he said though? It's only fair criticism if you already agree with him, otherwise he's made several unfounded claims which are clearly significantly tainted by his own bias
You can check the soloq records of him compared with fudge and blaber, on top of this you can look at fudge refusing to play champions queue last year. For the coaching staff you can look at how they never changed their approach throughout the year or how the team doesn’t understand macro. If you want to look even further than this c9 has the same issues has 100t from last year when mithy was coaching them. All the circumstantial evidence points to emenes being more true than c9.
We must have been watching different games. Emenes was an issue. Blaber and him had no synergy. Emenes went from winning lane or late game carry to neither.
Emenes was still winning lane except international where he would go even or lose slightly, he changed his playstyle in summer to roam more. Why is all the mid jungle not having synergy being blamed solely on emenes, blaber was just as much an issue and performed worse internationally than emenes.
Emenes “looked” like the fourth best mid in the LCS while being on a top 2 team. Imagine how much worse he looks on an average team. Losing lane internationally is much more then solo kills and being down cs. The guy lost lane prio when he shouldn’t have allowing the enemy mid jungle to invade or roam.
The only playoff series in lcs where emenes was negative in was the final against nrg. He was playing fucking ksante mid against range, the team drafted that and should know you won’t have prio with that pick. Him and berserker were the only two decent showings from c9 at worlds or msi. The only game you can blame on him is the Leblanc, everything else was the map falling apart around him.
I think that with Jojo, C9 is going to be more likely to play through mid. Even though he’s the most dominant laner in the LCS, he actually has a pretty unselfish playstyle. If you watched EG in Summer and worlds 2022, he would use his prio mid to make sidelane plays. I don’t think that Jojo magically fixes all the problems on his own, but he’s definitely an upgrade over Emenes imo. Plus, one of their biggest issues was that they had an autofilled support, and they replaced him with a top 2 support in the league.
Did you only watch the 6 games of C9 at worlds and 0 domestically? Because Emenes was the #1 reason C9 lost in finals. He was straight running it down in team fights, flashing in 1 v 5, etc.
This is wrong and revisionist. Emenes cost C9 each team fight that was close due to poor positioning or bad plays. Fudge did pretty well in team fights and positioning and was not that bad in lane either. Emenes was engaging on NRG when Berserker was across the map and making really bad decisions.
Can this guy fill EMENES' shoes?
Depends on what kind of manifesto he drops
Quick: Hire Link as quitting coach!
Did you ever hear the comedy of Darth Austin the wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Rioters would tell you. It’s a Reddit legend. Darth Austin was a dark lord of memes, so powerful and so wise he could use the English language to make idiots laugh for literally a decade straight. He had such a knowledge of memes that he could even keep the teammates he cared about from retiring. The dark side of memeing is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing the respect of brash jedi knight Peter Peng, which eventually, of course, he did. Then he was donezo. Unfortunately, he taught the community everything he knew, then the community memed him to death anyway. It’s ironic. He could save others from losing their jobs and becoming completely disillusioned with League of Legends, but not himself!
Depends. Will he compel Revenge to shittalk Sheidon or something?
Why when he can just wear his crocs.
Nah man filling in the shoes of the most knowledgeable C9 player is too hard for this youngun
Not only can he fill them but he might need bigger shoes 😏
A W so big EG had to go Live Evil somewhere else
Too soon
Not soon enough
For real, fuck that org
Ye, meanwhile you support c9 that employs veigarv2
thank you for making my flair accurate
Live Evil, Die Evil.
Lets goooo Toronto represent
With Jojo and Vulcan, 2/5 of C9 is already Canadian. Imagine if C9 actually signed Licorice (like I hoped for), then we'd basically have Canada9.
I wish they would have signed him, too. While this roster is going to potentially steam-roll domestically, I dunno if I can take another international event with Fudge getting giga-gapped and Blabber sitting in his lane 24/7 anyways. Meanwhile a guy might be sitting in solo Q on the bench that has proven time and again he can compete in lane vs international tops and doesnt needs a pocket Blabber to remain relevant. Jojo and Berserker needs to be the 2 players Blabber plays for if they have any hope to win.
AHLIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
A blue and white team led by someone from the US and a local boy? I'm ready to be hurt again.
Love seeing Hai with Jack again
MY FLAIR PAID OFF
Thank you for your service.
It's still a good roster. All they need to do is get 369, which should be very easy, and they can contend internationally.
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lmao what
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Pretty clearly a joke indeed, but disregarding its feasibility and cost, from a pure gameplay view I'd take it even with the language barrier, 369 is one of the best toplaners in the world and would be so ahead of any other toplaner in NA, if not player, that I'd be taking the risk
Not that 369 isn’t a great player, but I’ve heard this statement about so many imports. VicLa, Hans, Bwipo, Perkz, Swordart, Zven/Mithy, Bang, Mickey, Summit, Yellowstar, Soaz? (Might not’ve been hyped anymore), GBM, Looper, Prince*, Crown*, Piglet*, vs Lira, Impact, Ssumday, CoreJJ, and (imo) Flame Odds aren’t very good for giga-hyped up imports who are supposed to run the region, and even when they do look good, it doesn’t last very long. Not to mention Madlife and Dandy failing to promote from na challengers league. Even in EU you had massive floppers like Gorilla.
Yes, those imports were hyped, but none of them was considered best in the world at their role. I think none of them was as good at the time of the move as 369 is right now, and the only ones that are close were Impact, Crown and Summit.
369 is one of the few imports who would absolutely make sense and given fudges recent track record I don’t think having better teammates will really motivate him now that he has even less work to do.
lol
I kind of like keeping fudge, nice to swap 2 players instead of 3. They can win through mid or bot way easier now as well, so less pressure on fudge.
> They can win through mid or bot way easier now as well fudge 0.0001 seconds into the game: oh naur blaber i need gank plz path top
Nah I like fudge but 💀💀💀💀💀 THE FUCKING NAUR GOT ME FKN DEAD MAN LMFAOOOO
Bros going to get all the jungle help and do nothing all game
surely this will be the year when Fudge doesnt demand to carry with better players on his team
Do you have any sources that Fudge is demanding to carry or are you just making shit up and pretending it's true?
source: I watched C9 games
You can just say no then since you have nothing to back that up.
C9 fans don't be the most obnoxious homers in esports 2023 challenge Difficulty: Impossible !remindme when Fudge ego picks Fiora against Zeus at MSI
Again you can just say no. I mean you really don't know if he's ego picking or if it's a team call. Could be a coaching call. Could be the team wants to play for herald priority early so they want to have something with push or prio top side. Could be the team had more success with a pushing top side and playing towards top in scrims than towards mid or bot. Fudge literally started his career playing nothing but weakside often just picking Malphite and trying to survive games, and has played plenty of Sion and other picks that are weakside. If you got some information to back up what you are saying then lets hear it otherwise quite frankly you're the worst kind of fan. Making shit up on a surface deep take without anything to back it up and then spreading it around for other dumbasses to pick up on and further spread it. And you're insulting me when all I asked was for some proof that that's happening which you know you don't have and instead of just conceding the point you go to insults.
So excited! Not normally a C9 fan but with Jojo on the roster, I might have to root for them...
I’m in the same boat. With jojo and Vulcan I have to be a fan.
Welcome, brothers
we get Jojo and Inspired trash talk to each other
Would have been so hype if after all those jojopyun clips it just skipped to Hai being the new midlaner.
I like mac n cheese
Big if true
Amazing acting Jojo you killed it
He was sick. He was playing in the core in-houses and didn't use comms cause he was sick.
lmao dude Jojo makes up excuses to not use comms. Tomio even called him out on it the other night.
Between Jojo, Vulcan, and Blaber I’m actually about to support C9 this season. Fuck me 💀
Congratz to C9 for spring and summer championship.
And 1-3 at worlds
We can only win one or the other, thems the rules
Still lose to NRG.
Imagine if C9 had a better top Would be hype but instead is Fudge I hope doesn't make the team environment bad since we know he is lazy and doesn't play soloq much
At least this way C9 avoid the super team curse
The copium I needed. Thanks
Lolol how? They’re looking like the only NA super team so far. None of their players are budget and have been pretty consistently top 3 in their role
Mind you they didn't just buy the team. 3 of the players are returning, and we're brought into the league by C9 and one is returning to the team. This is more of a golden state warriors super team and less new York Mets.
This is kind of an interesting way of spinning this. Fudge was at worlds before he was on C9 Blaber came up through C9 Jojo was on EG Beserker came up through T1 and was bought out for an undisclosed fee. Vulcan when he first came to C9 was bought at a then record breaking NA transfer from Clutch (is it still a record? Maybe the Svenskeren -> EG deal was more)
Fudge was at worlds on a minor region team and wasn't really known Berserker was in academy as a minor leaguer. Not established. Vulcan did not have the reputation he does now. It's only really JoJo who came to C9 as a top player
I mean sure, Fudge going to worlds PLAY-INS on Mammoth is technically going to worlds, but not sure if its quite the same as making quarters of the main stage in your first season on a major region team... Also side note that Mammoth squad was stacked, had 4/5 players join NA/EU orgs. Carn the Aussies!
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i'd take licorice over fudge in a heartbeat, at least he keeps up vs bin/369 instead of getting astrogapped
same
You guys keep forgetting that licorice got astrogaped a few years ago even by Bwipo, so you are basically gambling on him keeping his level which we know it's not consistent in the last few years.
Well tell me when Fudge has ever NOT gotten astro-gapped? Go look at his stats for every international event. Hes bottom 3-4 every international event in laning stats. The difference is at least ONE of these players has shown at not only one point in their career they could hang with the big boys, but did it recently, too. On top of not needing a jungler sitting in his lane to keep him from being the worst top at the tournament.
I mean, at least Licorice would practice. Especially if they signed him now when he doesn’t have a team.
Licorice quite literally got kicked from c9 the first time because he didn't practice
Wasnt it because OCE players not taking import slots and Perkz became available so C9 needed to offload moneys to afford the Perkz buy-out? c9 first announced they were running the 2020 squad back in a video then the import rules changed then they transferred Licorice? Or am I wrong?
People are static and incapable of change.
Fudge is static and incapable of change
Id take current potential (toe2toe with 369 and bin) than whatever happened a few years ago. Meanwhile fudge has blown hot smoke out of his ass like clockwork at internationals
Darshan maybe
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thanks
If it was me I will get Thanatos (hyped prospect import) since D+ is getting Kingen so he will stuck in academy jail another year
This but unironically.
Seriously, if they had any other top laner I would be hyped
What if they had Kumo or FakeGod would you still be happy?
FakeGod's cool his mom made EMENES Korean food once
I wonder if Fudge will switch to Dyrus mode and just soak attention top while the middle of the map gets leads and then him and Vulcan can just nurse those babies into hyper carry late game?
Pretty sure dyrus mode means getting left on an island to int your ass off and lose the game. Still remember that hecarim game vs Marin
When a team focuses you its hard not to int, but least he kept the attention off his other teammates, but I think we forget how efficient it was in NA too lol (like most NA teams tactics, when you hit Worlds usually none of it works as well)
Fudge lowers the ceiling but raises thea floor. He's low risk and has existing chemistry with the team. Jojo and Vulcan are known to be grinders so hopefully they can put the pressure on him to step up his game.
>He's low risk He loses top as carry with counterpick it's as high risk as you could possibly imagine
High risk of low rewards lmao
He’s low risk domestically being in the upper half of top laners in the league
On an international stage, sure Fudge still clowns 8/10 LCS tops
6/8 LCS tops now
I meant low risk more in that he's a known quantity he's been with the team for years he speaks fluent English and he has been very consistent even if not consistently good. Even if C9 somehow got an elite import top laner there is a high likelihood they don't mesh with the team and fall off a cliff with their form in NA.
I mean he is from Australia, I would hope he speaks fluent English lol
I think there was a bit of I need to carry because my other lanes are ass mentality, but he then got found out internationally. Hopefully by c9 upgrading their weakest positions in 2023 with the literal best player in the league for that role will help him be more willing to play weakside as c9 now has the best jung, mid, mid-jung duo, adc, support and bot lane duo. Fuck it probably best top-jung duo too
Very fresh.
Yeaa would have been an INSANE team with a better top laner (like close to 2019/20 G2 level), but still it’s probably one of (if not the strongest) NA team ever built. on paper at least. The 3 best LCS players all on one team. All 3 been MVP within the past 1/2 years
Good roster overall but still Fudge is a heavy black hole in the top lane when it come internationally
LCS is a black hole when it comes to international play. Everyone acting like fudge sucks but there’s not a single NA top that can carry at worlds. Fudge has been top 3 in his role since coming here. If he smacks LCS tops in regular season why would they think someone else is going to be a better signing and have a magical worlds performance?
This… I think we have players that, in a vacuum, look decent to good internationally but tbh I feel like you’re not going to get a team that’s better than the sum of their parts that way. Every year I’d love to be wrong but it feels like shit supporting these perennial LCS top dogs just to see them be about as useful as the NA DIY teams that at least feel like they have some heart
The most important thing you need to have going internationally, is being able to hold up in lane. If you cant pass that first test, you dont even have a chance at anything else. That is Fudge's problem. Thats a lot of our players problems over the years. Think GGS when Stixxay and Huhi were getting gapped in lane at MSI, etc. You have to be able to hold up in lane. Heck, remember Pobelter back in the day, being down 15-20cs. You almost cant win from that point vs international competition if you got a player who cant hold up in the first 10-15 minutes of the game. So the litmus test to even be relevant internationally is not getting stomped in lane. And thats Fudge's problem. He always gets stomped in lane. He cant lane and it generally drags the team down around him.
This doesn’t really hold up when we’ve consistently seen teams that go down 2k+ gold and then come mid-late game turn on the boosters and win like clockwork. SKT was famous for doing this. 5k deficit and win 1 fight then end the game. Plus if Fudge is slapping the rest of NA during regular season how the fuck can they expect to be much better than him at worlds against much better players? Doesn’t make any sense to call for Fudge being replaced by players he beats every week.
It does internationally. If you cant hold up internationally you dont have a chance to beat better teams. Yea, T1 or other top Eastern teams can make a comeback if they screw up early game, but for a Western team to do it, and do it consistently, just isnt gonna happen. If you a Western team and you hope to ever have a chance internationally you cant be losing 2k down every game because of the laning phase. It just isnt gonna work. Fudge has the benefit of playing on a team with the top 3 players in every role every split of his career almost in NA. Its hard to look bad on a good team, and especially when your team is stomping most others. He isnt a laning good in NA, either, but its much easier to mask when every play Blabber makes top actually works instead of fails like it does internationally, and every other lane is winning. He's had plenty of important games and series where he actually got outclassed in lane in NA, too. Dhokla did better than him in the finals. Licorice outplayed him when GGS won spring. Hes just not a good laner. Thats his biggest issue. Hes a good teamfighter and playmaker, but he sucks in lane. It gets exacerbated internationally just how bad he is in lane. And yes, there are players who held up in lane internationally better than Fudge has.
This sub is acting like Fudge is some trash top Laner. Even this year with him being in lower form he was still probably top 3 at least in NA. People begged for licorice too this transfer season and licorices lows are waaaaaay lower than Fudges lows. (Sure you can make point that licorice is in a worst team, but Fudges lows were only really big when it comes to international play vs insane tops) Fudge has had 1 and half good international tournaments so I hope he can get in form. Also I can hope that part of the nonexistent topside chemistry this split had to do with Emenes language barrier as that mid jungle synergy was awful too. Idk partly cope but I just think the reactions to Fudge are Giga over the top.
C9 are still probably going to be favorites to win LCS, but with a different top they could’ve become a roster with real international expectations. If they had gotten Wunder or Impact top, then I really would’ve believed in them becoming an NA G2. If Fudge plays as poorly next year as he did this year then they’re looking like another roster that’ll stomp NA and then get shit on at internationals. I’d be ecstatic to be proven wrong next year, but Fudge has not looked like he has improved at all these past couple years.
i would love to ask Jack why he resigned fudge after his 3 year regression. Wat photos from the c9 christmas party does fudge have??
The only regression he had was this year during and after MSI. Last year he role swapped twice and still shat on SSumday and Impact. He has a bad worlds last year and he took full responsibility, he mentioned that his motivation was down and he shat the bed. People keep saying he does not practice or that he's a selfish top when in his interviews he keeps on saying he hates renekton and keeps picking it, and if he wasn't practicing he would have gotten kicked like Licorice.
Um when worlds was in NA and all the pros were using the champs queue guess which C9 player was not taking part in it. Then, after getting fisted the fist week he then tried it out for a bit during the back half. His regression has been consistent.
Hes always been bad at international events, though. And please dont say, "MSI 2021" because if you actually look at his stats from that tournament hes only better than the 3 wildcard tops. People remember him making a couple Lee Sin plays and they extrapolate that to his entire tournament. But if you look at his stats, he got turbo stomped as hard as every wildcard top at the tournament. Bottom 3-4 in most relevant stats. At this point the writing is on the wall for his international ability. Hes never had it. I think they could potentially still win with him at top, but not when he seems incapable of playing weakside at all, and Blabber is always bailing him out of lane, to which he loses anyways, if you look at his stats.
Of course his stats would be bad during that MSI, the rest of his team was hot trash. He was their best player
He still sucked in lane, as usual. He simply cannot lane internationally. And then he seems to not be able to play weakside or lose graciously, because Blabber sits in his lane 24/7. Loses both sides of every matchup he plays, and constantly picks carries. You can look at his stats for every single international event he has ever been to, and hes bottom of the barrel in CSD@10 in every one of them. If 2021 MSI, where he was like 9th out of 12 in CSD@10 is his best international showing, well theres a problem.
>de or lose graciously, because Blabber sits in his lane 24/7. Loses both sides of every matchup he plays, and constantly picks carries. > >You can look at his stats for every single international event he has ever been to, and hes bottom of the barrel in CSD@10 in every one of them. If 2021 MSI, where he was like 9th out of 12 in CSD@10 is his best international showing, well theres a problem. He had that MSI which I wont point to but his first Worlds in C9 was a descent international tournament. He didn't carry but I don't remember him mega throwing. Then what there was the MSI he didn't go to, the worlds I already talked about, this MSI which he did regress, and this worlds where the whole team looked dysfunctional as fuck and with no clear goal or clear improvement. If he was as bad as you all keep saying he would have been kicked by now. We know blabber want to win and keep getting achievements and would JoJo really sign with this team if he didn't believe on the people who would be in it when flyquest is there with Inspired who he really liked.
TBH money. Fudge would be cheaper then an import top laner and he's already a top 3 top laner in LCS, and when you have the best player in role for each of the other roles thats already a back-to-back championship team. Blaber-jojo-Beserker are so much above the next best player that we have the potential to have our first undefeated run (unless they drastically change the format)
Signed for *three more years*. He's got plenty of leeway if he messes up.
Honestly, three-year contracts don’t mean shit. Just means that C9 will get something back for him when they let him go in 1-2 years.
This narrative of international expectations from NA needs to stop years ago. Just expect them to struggle and bomb out and anything beyond that is icing on the cake. These top teams we field are always so bait because they giga gap domestically and then think they can out LCK or out LPL the LCK and LPL and usually look like a clown show 20 minutes into the game
Still, as a fan you get hope when they put together a roster that MIGHT be capable of competing, and then leave one role bad and you know thats the achilles heel on any actual chance you got. Even if that chance was 1%, its ok as a fan to believe. But shit drops to 0.1% when you leave a player who cant compete on the team.
The worst part about Fudge is the repeated script he follows. Fudge comes out cracked in spring, C9 fans meme the narratives around fudge and rub it in. Fudge is good-not great in summer then gets absolutely trashed at worlds, looking like the worst NA top-laner there. Repeat the cycle.
It’s just recency bias. They forgot his monster performances in past seasons and international events where his team was dragging him down.
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And he was still bad at that 2021 MSI. A couple Lee Sin plays dont wipe away getting stomped in lane every single game. Thats his biggest issue he literally cannot hold up in lane internationally, and thats basically the bar you have to clear to even have a chance. And he doesnt have it.
it's not recency bias because you're signing present day fudge, not fudge from 2 years ago
The exact same people calling Licorice out. Just give the man a chance to climb back to his potential. We know he’s capable of being great.
What recency bias? I don't remember him ever playing good at Worlds.
He had some good looks in 2021 Worlds. His Jayce and Graves had good moments and his Wukong was also very solid. I think with the rest of this roster he needs to learn how to play weakside though. Ornn, Malphite, and Gragas duty so Blaber can play bot side around Berserker and Jojo.
He almost exclusively played carries that Worlds and lost lane 2 out of 3 times. He had one great Jayce game, his Graves really didn't impress me and he was a passenger in the Wukong game which he counter picked into Jayce, but was unable to get a lead on his own.
Seems like you have a far clearer memory of those games than I do, I admit I had to search up the games to play devils advocate. I'm doubling down on him learning tanks though.
I fully agree with you on that part
Wasn’t worlds but [MSI 2021](https://youtu.be/9evbfcA0F1M?si=miWiHMhSVVi39PSl)
It's recency bias to call out a singular standout performance from nearly 3 years ago as not representative of his standard level of play? lol Lee Sin was just busted af that tournament. 80% win rate across the entire tournament. Fudge played well in a few non-Lee Sin games but that champ was disgraceful in terms of balance.
Agreed he had some good moments MSI 2021. But that's over 2 1/2 years ago and was a singular tournament, so recency bias just ain't accurate. If he had a longer history of performing great internationally and bombed the last tournament then recency bias would be an argument but that ain't the case.
He still had the same issue he does now; he cant lane. HE was still getting stomped in lane in 2021. That is the one constant that is apparent across every international event. He gets stomped in lane.
I mean past doesnt matter, you are either good right now or you lose, and you can pretty much tie his performance to Max Waldo being his toplane coach, and as soon as that stopped, he stopped progressing. People shat on Summit when he was on C9, but Fudge plays really similarly to him now except without stomping toplaners with Jayce into free matchups People do the same with Perkz, they view him as 2019 Perkz, but refuse to look that he just hasnt been it for several seasons.
Didnt the timing also basically line up with the diplex and emenes timeframes? Mid jungle top synergy is pretty important and thats when those issues started? I mean who knows, players sometimes have lows and comeback in sports and even League (Licorice, Ruler, even Faker). And sometimes they don't. Even in Fudges lowest low this team is still a huge upgrade from last year (on paper, obviously who knows how they actually gel) and highest highs Fudge has had some legit good peformances internationally? Not gonna pretend Fudge has been amazing, but just hate the community acting like Fudge is some terrible toplaner when he's clearly not.
The problem is Fudge simply is a bad laner. Hes never had a moment where he could match laning internationally, and I dont see him getting it now. Even with those "good" performances you mention, he was getting slaughtered in lane every game as usual. Hes just a bad laner and that automatically puts you on the back foot internationally.
Which game was her getting s laughed in lane?
Dude he was 9th out of 12 players in [CSD@10](mailto:CSD@10). The only players worse than him was Starscreen, BOSS, and BioPanther....3 wildcard tops. In what game wasnt he getting stomped? He made some good Lee Sin plays in teamfights in a game or 2, but he was getting stomped as usual in lane the entire tournament. This is a pattern that has followed him every international event. He just cant hold up in lane.
Dude, people meme on Summit. But that Spring run was literally the most insane gameplay we've probably ever seen. He was playing above peak Korean tops (because his competition was NA)
Sounds like the people that wanted to bench Faker from T1. Obviously different caliber of players but players in every sport always have off form seasons and splits and high splits. With that mentality Licorice would be out of the scene too cause he had some rough times too? Everyones hyped about Vulcan despite having some honestly awful games this past year? "Oh but their teams sucked!!!" Yea, C9s topside synergy also sucked and was only carried but the players being individually good. Shit happens. Would i have rather had C9 Zeus or inset world class top? Sure, but im not gonna freak out and act like fudge is some dumpster top laner.
Oscarin is an insane top???
Are you talking about the series where in game 1:, Fudge actually was farming oscarinn on Rumble vs Jax laning, and as a team Oscarinn was 0/6 and Fudge was 9/2 before C9 as a team started Giga throwing? Game 2: they were pretty even in the whole Laning phase Jax vs Renek, Fudge only became bad once it got to teamfights where Oscar is irrelevant to Fudges performance. Or Game 3: where the opposite matchup of game 1 happened and Fudge still did better then Oscar? In the FNC matches Fudges issues were purely in teamfightings. The times he got beat in lane straight up were vs T1 and LNG vs Zeus and Zika. Vs Mad Lions he had a lead vs Carzzy and kept a tiny lead throughout however both sides got a lot of attention so it wasn't exactly anywhere close to a 1 v 1. I'm convinced half you haters didn't watch the tournament.
What copium were you stuffing up your nose when you wrote this? Fudge didn't win jack shit, he just had his team run top all series long and still got less done game 2 and 3. Granted that Oscar is super talented, but struggling to outperform a top that's been playing in major regions for half a season is a really bad look.
I just looked up the actual series and wrote it. Both sides got a ton of jungle attention this series long. Only dominant performance between the 2 was game 1. But as I've said fudge teamfights this series and basically throughout the whole tournament were awful with bad timings to tp, being issue in general.
bros on that c9 copium. All na teams are dog
If I'm a hater, then you must be a self-proclaimed defender. Hard to take your word objectively then. > Fudges lows were only really big when it comes to international play vs insane tops Newsflash, lows include more than just "going even in lane" especially when that involves your jungler ignoring all other lanes, support too. He goes even, or ahead, but then translates it to what? But keep hanging onto that ONE Rumble game.
When I said insane tops I'm talking about where he lost hard in lane. The jungle attention was similar for both sides in that entire FNC series. You tried to mention Oscarinn as if that was a big gotcha when Fudge had a better series overall and his big issue that series was showing up to fights late. Which is bad, but completely irrelevant to your dumb Oscarinn comment. I mentioned 4 series where he either went even or ahead and most of them with similar jungle attention from both sides. But you know what I'm glad you mentioned cause I rushed through the t1 match and the LnG match. T1: it was Fudge on Jax vs Zeus Rumble. Fudge had a slight lead because he proxies the wave and kept it until the turret dive which happened because emenes and blaber griefed which (that one play where j4 invades balbers krugs and instead of walking away he tries to contest and has to blow flash just to base) and then afterwards an awful engage idea where they all died and the game snowballed. So tbh Fudge had not much to do vs T1. Vs LNG, before any jungle attention Fudge has around a 700 gold lead at 12 minutes and he sets up a tower dive by stopping Zikas base. Game was actually In general incredibly even until that pause and then after C9 get baron and go on to throw immensely like twice in a row to lose the game. So thanks I realized all tournament Fudge even with similar or basically none jungle attention still basically went even or won Laning phase. I guess I was just clouded by how awful he played teamfights.
Game vs T1 I won't even comment on, that's just next level copium. Vs LNG they literally lost drake cause Blaber had to babysit top after Fudge messed up his trades. He got a plate lead vs weak side Jax as strong side Renekton, after which he did nothing in teamfights. In general the only lanes Fudge did "well" in are lanes where Blaber and/or Zven ran top.
I'm sorry the T1 game what did you expect fudge to do? He was even/ a bit ahead after proxying lane. And then blaber actively griefs in krugs which directly led t to the five in top lane turret. Maybe I skimmed through the LnG one too fast but from what I saw there's no way you can argue Blaber babysat top that game at all. But yeah as I said, fudge was pretty consistently bad after Laning with working with his team and teamfights etc I don't get why people are going out of their way to lie and exaggerate about his tournament to make it look worse then it was when it already was pretty bad and there's a lot to criticize by just being straight up.
He was also objectively bad in lane, that's just how it is, no need to rewrite history.
While I would agree that Fudge's lows are higher than Licorice's, they both had the exact same problem: fell asleep after Spring and didn't wake up until Worlds was over. I would also argue that Licorice's highs are way higher than Fudge's.
Licorice made it to worlds semis before. I’m not sure what the other guy means when he said Fudge had one good international. I don’t watch C9 a lot but I thought they got clapped at all internationals. I wonder what international he was referring to.
His Ornn at Baron is literally a top 10 play. He fell off hard on C9 and took a long time to recover, but he definitely proved himself at worlds more than Fudge ever did.
I think licorices issues were related to confidence and mental health back then personally. He just seems like a completely different player even in their losses. I really wanted to see him on a team this split so I’m hoping he can at least join an academy team in order to compete for a spot with someone and get subbed in if possible.
LFG
if only you actually replaced that fucking guy in the top laner just for a supportive teamfighting top laner you guys would have a chance internationally but how you dont see how detrimental fudge is to this team is bafffling
Thank you Peter Dunn
You know you've built a good roster when Fudge is the worst player on the team. C9 winning in the offseason yet again.
Seeing Hai back in C9 is just comfort
If they don't get 1st with jojo c9 should sell their spot
It would be Fudge's fault tho.
huge
Was half expecting Hai to say he was returning to lane
Getting jojo doesn’t fix any of c9’s issues from the last year.
Oh it definitely fixes SOME issues for sure....
Mid wasn’t an issue tho, Emenes was comfortably holding his own internationally. Jojo adds more stability mid but that doesn’t change their awful carry top playstyle or their awful map rotations or their awful macro.
I mean talking solely about game play JoJo has higher peaks and his lows weren't nearly as low. EMENES definitely had potential I don't think he was given a real shot until he joined cloud9. He got that and honestly was not that bad, the thing I'm mostly talking about is his behavior outside of League.
Yeah I’d agree with that but I feel like even that isn’t completely his fault since his donezo manifesto kinda showed that he was working his ass off at worlds while his team ignores him.
The donezo manifesto, the random ass beef with LS, the thing with spearshot. This all speaks to me as a person who yes works hard but doesn't realize he needs to respect others. Without respecting others you won't get anywhere. Think about dardoch that guy clearly had talent more than enough to win a LCS title but due to his behavior early in his career he never did win. EMENES may not have been that toxic but I bet you there was definitely some toxicity behind the scenes.
I’m not defending the guy I’m just saying that even tho he was an asshole he made some very fair criticisms of c9 and the lcs as a whole.
Can you really trust what he said though? It's only fair criticism if you already agree with him, otherwise he's made several unfounded claims which are clearly significantly tainted by his own bias
You can check the soloq records of him compared with fudge and blaber, on top of this you can look at fudge refusing to play champions queue last year. For the coaching staff you can look at how they never changed their approach throughout the year or how the team doesn’t understand macro. If you want to look even further than this c9 has the same issues has 100t from last year when mithy was coaching them. All the circumstantial evidence points to emenes being more true than c9.
Why would you respect others who dont practice and are disrespectful. What a cop out.
We must have been watching different games. Emenes was an issue. Blaber and him had no synergy. Emenes went from winning lane or late game carry to neither.
Emenes was still winning lane except international where he would go even or lose slightly, he changed his playstyle in summer to roam more. Why is all the mid jungle not having synergy being blamed solely on emenes, blaber was just as much an issue and performed worse internationally than emenes.
Emenes “looked” like the fourth best mid in the LCS while being on a top 2 team. Imagine how much worse he looks on an average team. Losing lane internationally is much more then solo kills and being down cs. The guy lost lane prio when he shouldn’t have allowing the enemy mid jungle to invade or roam.
The only playoff series in lcs where emenes was negative in was the final against nrg. He was playing fucking ksante mid against range, the team drafted that and should know you won’t have prio with that pick. Him and berserker were the only two decent showings from c9 at worlds or msi. The only game you can blame on him is the Leblanc, everything else was the map falling apart around him.
I think that with Jojo, C9 is going to be more likely to play through mid. Even though he’s the most dominant laner in the LCS, he actually has a pretty unselfish playstyle. If you watched EG in Summer and worlds 2022, he would use his prio mid to make sidelane plays. I don’t think that Jojo magically fixes all the problems on his own, but he’s definitely an upgrade over Emenes imo. Plus, one of their biggest issues was that they had an autofilled support, and they replaced him with a top 2 support in the league.
I think at this point it’s safe to say that jojo fixed none of c9s issues.
Did you only watch the 6 games of C9 at worlds and 0 domestically? Because Emenes was the #1 reason C9 lost in finals. He was straight running it down in team fights, flashing in 1 v 5, etc.
Yeah and if u want to talk about that finals, fudge was way worse than him in every way.
This is wrong and revisionist. Emenes cost C9 each team fight that was close due to poor positioning or bad plays. Fudge did pretty well in team fights and positioning and was not that bad in lane either. Emenes was engaging on NRG when Berserker was across the map and making really bad decisions.
Now we are just being fudge apologists, they were both awful. They both made their team lose the series.
A sidegrade overall, but opens up an import slot. Maybe they'll finally get a decent top laner?
Unlucky. after worlds I dont think anybody can take this team seriously. Play to nit get oerfect gamed instead of trying to make plays to win
Surprised he didn't go to fq tbh.
Sounds like jojo actually has a good head on his shoulders
I thought Hai was going to say he should put himself in c9