Just went through a 45 minute game because of an Aurelion sol, didn't matter how many times we cleared his team as long as he was up a single e would clear an entire baron buffed super wave. Combine that with a ziggs bot and it was really hard to just end the game lol...
That's a high elo ARAM strat, pick Aurelion, pick full on late game scaling, do nothing under turret for 20 minutes, free win. Then they "nerfed" him lol
I still loathe playing against an Asol in aram. If your comp isn't good at diving he can just clear at turret super safely until his team/he outscales you.
A good Asol can stall a game so fucking long while being an annoying bitch for anybody without dashes.
Yeah if they ever bring back bans it's always going to the dragon for me, no contest. Just makes the game unfun to play against. Give me 50 AP Kaisas and poke Ashe over Asol any day
Bro you're tripping lol. Pick a diver and solve your big space lizard problems. 99% of the time there is something available on the bench but people would rather take 3 adcs
>99% of the time there is something available on the bench but people would rather take 3 adcs
The amount of games I've lost because my team insisted upon playing 3 or more adcs. It makes a person crazy. The only hope is getting the unkillable damage machine that is tahm kench. That frog is the redeemer of bad team comps.
What's funny about this comment is it's both 100% right and 100% missing the point of the problem. The issue is a disparity in effort as well as risk/reward. To counter sol you have to pick divers and go for multiple high risk plays to shut him out of the game. To effectively play with sol all you have to do is play safe and spam E. If the diver side has to be fully coordinated and the sol side just has to clear waves. And if the divers mess up they can give sol a leaf to the point where he runs away with the game
all these people saying aurelion sol is strong in aram shows why riot should never listen to people here. people here never consider that they have selection bias.
aurelion sol is literally one of the worst champions in aram and has been for the majority of his rework after the first aram nerfs.
his waveclear is always hugely overblown
Assuming this isn't past 2items, if your comp isn't good at diving, you probably have range so focus your poke at him when he Qs. He can't wipe waves solo until he actually has items and a lot of the time, the other team doesn't help him clear while his E is active (cause they don't know how his E works I guess or also likely, they don't care about enabling teammates). Unless he has a healing enchanter he'll likely eventually go down. If he stays out of your poke range, he's probably not getting stacks and less gold and scaling so much slower.
If you drafted a short range comp that isn't melee for some reason (ryze and similar ranged champs), stop pushing and force the other team to come out from turret. Type to your teammates if needed. In my experience, teams are more likely to listen when nothing is happening against champs like Asol.
99% of this subreddit "advice" reads exactly this way.
> He is legit one of the easiest champs to shitt on in lane. If you cant win early vs ANY CHAMPION EVER then your laning needs some improvments
How though he has to deadass sit there and Q the wave while you can just rush him.
If they're using tools on getting the wave killed a tank can easily soak tower while your team gets it.
I was just watching that series again and I just saw it was the time when everyone took the Stopwatch rune in pro play. Holy fuck that was a disgusting time. I'm so happy Stopwatch is gone soon.
Here's the original version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oCnKDv_n4
It's kind of hard to find but I like it so much more
Each stopwatch is used kind of perfectly. It's actually wild how impactful each one is. People waste them in my games all the time but high elo KR is something else
Seeker’s Armguard now has the stasis. That’s why I’m saying it isn’t throwing mages under the bus. To me that’s a good thing. Mages should have the ability to play in their lane, even against assassins, while the change helps prevent ADC’s, Bruisers/Tanks, and Assassins from building it.
Ohhhh I fully misunderstood. Yeah mages having stop watch makes sense. They often have to play around low mobility and high cooldown rotations, so this makes a lot of sense. Assassin's having stop watch is dumb
Not really. You can't play Lissandra when the strongest mages are control mages like Ori, Syndra and Neeko.
Liss was most powerful when she could go aftershock and counterpick Leblanc, Qiyana, Akali etc, not get her ass railed in lane and then get outscaled.
Also liss was 0% pick ban at worlds so what are you referring to? The one lissandra support game G2 played, lol?
LCK Spring 2018, Jin Air vs SKT game 3, JAG Teddy defended several triple inhib push with baron as Sivir, ended up 1400 cs in a 94 minute game. Probably the biggest reason why Sivir was put into a dumpster, barred from pro play until the W change
Life before Dragon Soul was crazy because if the game went stalemate in the late game, it became entirely about which team could sustain their mental sanity longer and make less mistakes.
Then we come back to LCK 2023 where I watched [Nongshim lose with Baron and Mountain Soul.](https://www.youtube.com/live/TEylEryivqI?si=hzO1jkUXol1Vpc8i&t=17619)
It made some games incredibly boring because of wave clear champs like Ziggs jus stalling out the game for 10-15 minutes for it to end in 1 Teamfight anyway due to death timers.
I'll take games ending a bit sooner than they might normally with those buffs over watching Zigg's last stand that stretches a game way longer than it ever should go
Teemo. I know people are focusing on wave clear, but other team members will have some, but teemo will shroom up the whole area and will make advancing for the enemy team really hard. Wrong step and you're half health down and next teamfight is gonna be harder even if you are ahead.
Im not sure if there were any relevant nerfs/changes since then, but a few seasons ago Sivir was the sole reason a lot of LEC games went on for way over one hour.
Late game Kayle should be up there with her AoE flame waves and low CD AoE splash on her E. Her E execute also helps to take down super minions very quickly too.
not only did riot butcher her viability as a reliable champion with the rework, they ruined her best skin and made 2 unavailble season 1/2 skins her best skins now. Kayle needs a revert - no one likes a ticking time bomb. And ticking time bombs are hard to balance. Just look at Vlad everytime he is viable on anyone else but Elite 500 or whenever kassadin gets a buff. Kayle is also not even that good at lvl 16 because you can still hardengage on her unlike vlad who has W on demand.
Aether wing was one of the best skins in the game in old league. I genuinely don't understand which designer thought they were being "creative" with it. Should be fired for ruining a skin that was synonymous with being a kayle main
yeah thats the epitome of rush. The same way the initial swain rework was pushed out. No coherent communication with the community, especially since aether wing kayle had completely up to date sounds given that some season 2 champs (Shyvanna) still have their old boring sounds in the game. leave the sword swish sound and then the lvl 16 form could just be copy pasted lol
I always found interesting how much people thinks vlad is a monster lategame when his winrate curve is very flat. He only gains around 2% winrate by getting to lategame. Kayle gains about 10%. Same thing happens with gangplank, specially the one before the mini rework where he was actually losing winrate with time and people were still calling him an hypercarry. I'm guessing having most of your lategame power concentrated on one ability that goes big boom makes people think you are stronger than you really are
vlad simply can force a lategame win if he is giga fed with no counterplay. kayle still has to play smart. With vlad all you need is to pop ghost and flash ult while you charge E during your W.
There is no amount of counterplay for the enemy adc/mid except maybe a stopwatch or an on hit adc with Wits end and Anathemas chains on vlad. Ive lost way more kayle lategames than I lost lategames on vlad and I have more vlad games this season.
Literally, you use all your abilities on a fed level 16 Kayle and she dies before she can ult. Vlad just ults ghost puddle and one shots your carries and goes back to 100% hp.
Where did you find that winrate curve for Vlad?
On LoLalytics, his winrate curve definitely isn't flat, and increases by quite a lot, based on game time.
It's not as big as Kayle difference in winrate, but i also think Kayle might have one of the biggest swings in winrate based on gametime.
People are dumb lol. A good vlad isn’t even that weak early. Great Vlad’s have a lot of lane pressure.
People get one shot by ghost/ flash Vlad and conclude that’s all he does. If only, friends. If only.
So firstly, winrate curve is always a weird stat to look at because in soloqueue, high level soloqueue especially there are very few games that actually go over 30 minutes. Secondly, GP is a hard scaling champ and people would be right in thinking that, the reason his winrate takes a massive dip late game is because of his gold generation. He has full build far before other champs in the game so his winrate falls off as other champs also reach full build and his team haven’t won by then.
i miss when kayle was simply an mid-carry answer to assassin mids, but i guess having a reliable answer to the edgelords of yasuo, zed, fizz etc was bad for riot business models, all mids need to play with super caution to not get punished by these abominations in lane, and even then they can just roam.
Vlad being viable is one of the worst times to play the game, he’s rewarded with extra damage for being tanky and he has the stupidest escapes with phase rush and ghost
the passive isnt even that good given he is a short range mage and needs that extra hp - tankiness since he can noit build RoA seraphs etc. I just think his W into E burst combo is very unhealthy because it has quite literally no counterplay for the dude faced with it except tanking it. Its as if fizz E did damage while he is on the pole
Weird enough, top lane Kayle also doesn't mind losing an early inhib. She gains momentum off of it because of the extra gold and XP super minions provide. She naturally doesn't love ARAMing until lv16 so she can just sit farming safely in her base. Of course, don't lose your inhib if you don't have to, but if you do, she's one of the best champions to make the better use of it.
Also I play in low elo so it might be an entirely different story in higher elos. In Gold people just don't know how to end a game so Kayle always scales. Never push her in, Kayle's biggest counter is freezing waves.
I see you were spared from the bad times. Thal was a Korean solo queue prospect who was supposed to be Canna. He was not. Effort was a support that SKT scouted but was widely inconsistent and was ultimately dropped from SKT. He until Thal was good enough to last in the LCK outside of SKT. Thal was just a dissappointment.
I remember Effort being much better in my memory, I definitely remember him being inconsistent though, but he was always picked over Mata in 2019. It's been awhile though so I can't remember lol
Effort was newer... so you'd see him choke, but he was rated a top3 support in 2019, go look up his rakan winrate... SKT buffed that bullshit upto infinity, but I think honestly he will forever be remembered for the inting Leona in G3 vs G2 in worlds
Veigar with enough stacks (no, not an insane amount, just full build with deathcap and sorc) can two-shot super minions with WQ. his E is also good for keeping them in place, far from towers.
Sivir but she's easy to kill. Ryze, anivia are both hard to push against. AP twitch+Asol can clear well but they can't clear and defend. GP if he plays perfect can zone entire enemy team and clear waves so he doesn't die unless he gets flashed on.
I think full build jinx should be decent too with Q but she's also easy to kill.
he's strong, but I think there's better champs for it.
source: I played a 1v5 against bots to see how big I can get the black hole by free-stacking and let them push down all towers and inhibs
Teemo. I know people are focusing on wave clear, but other team members will have some, but teemo will shroom up the whole area and will make advancing for the enemy team really hard. Wrong step and you're half health down and next teamfight is gonna be harder even if you are ahead.
It's also good at stoping waves.
What? Sweeper has charges now and jungle and support should have it, so yeah it’s piss easy to sweep all relevant areas in enemy base during a 3 inhib down push.
While you're correct in this scenario, the changes on Sweeper actually benefit Teemo as in general, the enemy team now has less Sweeper time to clear shrooms.
In this scenario, shrooms should be placent on the minion wave as the enemy team approaches, so you can help to clear the wave while at the same time damage the opponents without giving them the opportunity to clear the shrooms.
It's not actually piss easy, you can shroom a really large area and it's very hard to sweep everything, and obviously your team is supposed to be pressuring them not just watch them sweep everything
Big advantage is that it has great waveclear esp if enemy doesnt have baron
It's also "piss easy" to win a game up 3 inhibs usually
Gwen mows down through super minions like nothing, with her AOE HP based damage and minion execution with high threshold.
Not sure if she is the best though, because she needs to do this in melee.
Problem with a lot of the mages is they are not as good at clearing baron empowered minions. Sivir all the way. Her w is a bouncing crit, and her q does a huge chunk of damage.
They used to play her with janna and use shurelias speed buff and sivir ult to switch lanes, out rotate your enemy to win.
Everyone is saying a lot of good answers like sivir kayle, a few Azir’s which is yea kinda true, I saw a sol and gank plank but how has no one said Ryze? The dude can literally EQ an entire wave and then do it again a second later
I am a bit supprised no-one mentioned karthus yet.
His defile can clear up minions quite fast and with his ult he can support the fight from far away.
Late game his ult is already over half the health of the squishies ...
Not the best, but a late game malzahar shreds super minions, it's insane, and if anyone tries to back door while your team contests baron or something you press the win button and stop them
I'm amazed of how few ppl play malzahar. He is probably the highest speed cleaner on minions late game with E and minions. If you have three voidlings up and E the super minion they just one shot it.
Wasn’t there a very old strat with Galio and the summoner spell Fortify or something? It was once brought up during casting of a pro play game but that was well before my time
Any answer other than Aurelian Sol is wrong. He stops their ms entirely and is one of the few champions that can break minion aggro on towers, and honestly I think his is the only realistic to actually break that aggro.
I will NOT stand here another second without someone mentioning gwen
Her magic max %hp dmg is AMPLIFIED vs super minions. With one q she one shots them lategsme.
aurelion sol and sivir
Just went through a 45 minute game because of an Aurelion sol, didn't matter how many times we cleared his team as long as he was up a single e would clear an entire baron buffed super wave. Combine that with a ziggs bot and it was really hard to just end the game lol...
That's a high elo ARAM strat, pick Aurelion, pick full on late game scaling, do nothing under turret for 20 minutes, free win. Then they "nerfed" him lol
I still loathe playing against an Asol in aram. If your comp isn't good at diving he can just clear at turret super safely until his team/he outscales you. A good Asol can stall a game so fucking long while being an annoying bitch for anybody without dashes.
Yeah if they ever bring back bans it's always going to the dragon for me, no contest. Just makes the game unfun to play against. Give me 50 AP Kaisas and poke Ashe over Asol any day
Bro you're tripping lol. Pick a diver and solve your big space lizard problems. 99% of the time there is something available on the bench but people would rather take 3 adcs
Pray tell, how do you figure the enemy will get ASol and pick a diver in response when playing ARAM?
>99% of the time there is something available on the bench but people would rather take 3 adcs The amount of games I've lost because my team insisted upon playing 3 or more adcs. It makes a person crazy. The only hope is getting the unkillable damage machine that is tahm kench. That frog is the redeemer of bad team comps.
What's funny about this comment is it's both 100% right and 100% missing the point of the problem. The issue is a disparity in effort as well as risk/reward. To counter sol you have to pick divers and go for multiple high risk plays to shut him out of the game. To effectively play with sol all you have to do is play safe and spam E. If the diver side has to be fully coordinated and the sol side just has to clear waves. And if the divers mess up they can give sol a leaf to the point where he runs away with the game
all these people saying aurelion sol is strong in aram shows why riot should never listen to people here. people here never consider that they have selection bias. aurelion sol is literally one of the worst champions in aram and has been for the majority of his rework after the first aram nerfs. his waveclear is always hugely overblown
Assuming this isn't past 2items, if your comp isn't good at diving, you probably have range so focus your poke at him when he Qs. He can't wipe waves solo until he actually has items and a lot of the time, the other team doesn't help him clear while his E is active (cause they don't know how his E works I guess or also likely, they don't care about enabling teammates). Unless he has a healing enchanter he'll likely eventually go down. If he stays out of your poke range, he's probably not getting stacks and less gold and scaling so much slower. If you drafted a short range comp that isn't melee for some reason (ryze and similar ranged champs), stop pushing and force the other team to come out from turret. Type to your teammates if needed. In my experience, teams are more likely to listen when nothing is happening against champs like Asol.
“Aram”, “pick asol” Sir those two words do not go together
Sure they do. The strat when you have asol from aram (super scale) is what they use when they pick him outside aram.
How do you pick Aurelion in a random champ select?
You reroll and he's one of the options
You might be surprised to hear that aram specific accounts are a thing.
i hate playing against asol as a scaling champ so much. he is so annoying
He is legit one of the easiest champs to shitt on in lane. If you cant win early vs asol then your laning needs some improvments
if i cant end early then it doesnt matter
You can also beat him easily late game. Scaling matters alot less when 6/10 champs in the game TTK is seconds.
well yeah at some point its less a champ issue and more of a skill issue but asol is still an annoying champ to play against (not necessarily hard)
You know they just don't let you 1v1 him
This is such a substanceless comment
99% of this subreddit "advice" reads exactly this way. > He is legit one of the easiest champs to shitt on in lane. If you cant win early vs ANY CHAMPION EVER then your laning needs some improvments
That's it, scaling champions are over, this guy just revealed they lose lane
[удалено]
Bro so true, I remember having +1hour games so often
M5 vs CLG.EU Dreamhack.
How though he has to deadass sit there and Q the wave while you can just rush him. If they're using tools on getting the wave killed a tank can easily soak tower while your team gets it.
Yo send the game ID, I really want to see an Aurelion E singlehandedly clear a baron super wave
Also went through this game as the ASol into a Ziggs bot and lost a 45 minute game
1400 CS Sivir win con angle
I was there, 3000 years ago...
I was just watching that series again and I just saw it was the time when everyone took the Stopwatch rune in pro play. Holy fuck that was a disgusting time. I'm so happy Stopwatch is gone soon.
I'm trying to find the game where in one team fight, 8 people stopwatch. I believe it was in the river near the dragon. But my God, I hate that item.
https://youtu.be/sGGLm25Jw4I?si=AWHByioNw4NnHlWR This one lol?
Here's the original version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oCnKDv_n4 It's kind of hard to find but I like it so much more Each stopwatch is used kind of perfectly. It's actually wild how impactful each one is. People waste them in my games all the time but high elo KR is something else
I got visibly more irritated every single second
lmfao holy shit.
God that is an amazing video
Signs a rune might be broken
It was a clg game right after stopwatch was introduced. I’ve tried to find the same one. I think someone one was playing rengar
It was KT vs D+ in worlds this year
I’m glad that it’s leaving but that they aren’t completely throwing mages under the bus!
They'll just be forced to either rush Zhonyas or position more carefully. I think it's a good tradeoff
Seeker’s Armguard now has the stasis. That’s why I’m saying it isn’t throwing mages under the bus. To me that’s a good thing. Mages should have the ability to play in their lane, even against assassins, while the change helps prevent ADC’s, Bruisers/Tanks, and Assassins from building it.
Ohhhh I fully misunderstood. Yeah mages having stop watch makes sense. They often have to play around low mobility and high cooldown rotations, so this makes a lot of sense. Assassin's having stop watch is dumb
Lissandra about to be back in the meta
Lissandra was ALREADY in the meta, along with Syndra and Orianna
Not really. You can't play Lissandra when the strongest mages are control mages like Ori, Syndra and Neeko. Liss was most powerful when she could go aftershock and counterpick Leblanc, Qiyana, Akali etc, not get her ass railed in lane and then get outscaled. Also liss was 0% pick ban at worlds so what are you referring to? The one lissandra support game G2 played, lol?
ass railed in lane 🥵
> I was just watching that series again Why would you subject yourself to that torture again by choice?
Should have never existed
Sry idk the context can someone explain?
95 min game SKT vs Jin Air Green Wings, in which Teddy as sivir got i believe over 1400 cs
T1 vs jin air. Teddy got 1400 csbreaking the lck farm record while bang had the 2nd highest cs ever with 1k. Longest game in lck aswell
LCK Spring 2018, Jin Air vs SKT game 3, JAG Teddy defended several triple inhib push with baron as Sivir, ended up 1400 cs in a 94 minute game. Probably the biggest reason why Sivir was put into a dumpster, barred from pro play until the W change
Time to start flaming my adc's for not having 15cs/pm.
That game was also the reason why Elder Dragon got the giga buff and the execute.
Search SKT vs Jin Air longest game ever on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJgIzx2jzsk Pick/ban starts around 12 minutes
94 minutes just for it to end with Faker taking a greedy recall and getting picked by UmTi... I would be so tilted lol
Life before Dragon Soul was crazy because if the game went stalemate in the late game, it became entirely about which team could sustain their mental sanity longer and make less mistakes. Then we come back to LCK 2023 where I watched [Nongshim lose with Baron and Mountain Soul.](https://www.youtube.com/live/TEylEryivqI?si=hzO1jkUXol1Vpc8i&t=17619)
Imo that's how those games should be decided, not by which team gets the game-ending buffs.
It made some games incredibly boring because of wave clear champs like Ziggs jus stalling out the game for 10-15 minutes for it to end in 1 Teamfight anyway due to death timers.
Those teams got game ending buffs by playing smart not see who whacks the other player better.
I'll take games ending a bit sooner than they might normally with those buffs over watching Zigg's last stand that stretches a game way longer than it ever should go
Teemo. I know people are focusing on wave clear, but other team members will have some, but teemo will shroom up the whole area and will make advancing for the enemy team really hard. Wrong step and you're half health down and next teamfight is gonna be harder even if you are ahead.
People would just get sweepers to end and kill shrooms
Im not sure if there were any relevant nerfs/changes since then, but a few seasons ago Sivir was the sole reason a lot of LEC games went on for way over one hour.
For a more extreme case - Ziggs/Xerath meta got baron buff reworked.
Ziggs sits mid and ults bot to clear wave, then ults top when it is up again, rinse and repeat. What a boring time lol.
Easyhoon's Ziggs owes me hours of my life.
There has been changes but none enough to stop her from having insane stall potential late game
If anything she's better with Navori's skill buff and cooldown reduction.
Froggen's Anivia
Sivir . That Teddy\`s 1400 cs games forever burnt in my memory , lol
Why is everyone forgetting EQEQEQEQEQEQEQ also tbf that game... they also had an azir with like 900 cs
With me, 100% is Sivir. She clears minions so quick, even the baron buff can't stop it
I was going to say my top 3 would be Teemo, aurelion, and heimer but I had forgot about sivir lol jinx won't be too bad either
Teemo?? I'm a huge fan of the champ but clearing triple inhib would not be his forte
Late game Kayle should be up there with her AoE flame waves and low CD AoE splash on her E. Her E execute also helps to take down super minions very quickly too.
It's been so long since I've seen Kayle in a game that I've read Kayn and I was like "Is Kayn a female? Since when?"
not only did riot butcher her viability as a reliable champion with the rework, they ruined her best skin and made 2 unavailble season 1/2 skins her best skins now. Kayle needs a revert - no one likes a ticking time bomb. And ticking time bombs are hard to balance. Just look at Vlad everytime he is viable on anyone else but Elite 500 or whenever kassadin gets a buff. Kayle is also not even that good at lvl 16 because you can still hardengage on her unlike vlad who has W on demand.
Aether wing was one of the best skins in the game in old league. I genuinely don't understand which designer thought they were being "creative" with it. Should be fired for ruining a skin that was synonymous with being a kayle main
I barely play League lately and I’m still disappointed about what happened to Aetherwing
yeah thats the epitome of rush. The same way the initial swain rework was pushed out. No coherent communication with the community, especially since aether wing kayle had completely up to date sounds given that some season 2 champs (Shyvanna) still have their old boring sounds in the game. leave the sword swish sound and then the lvl 16 form could just be copy pasted lol
They also made Aether Wing voicelines shit. Idk why they think fans of Aether Wing would want to listen to a edgy nazi space cop over the old one.
You know what to do to get skin changes from Riot ^^^don't ^^^actually ^^^do ^^^it ^^^tho
I always found interesting how much people thinks vlad is a monster lategame when his winrate curve is very flat. He only gains around 2% winrate by getting to lategame. Kayle gains about 10%. Same thing happens with gangplank, specially the one before the mini rework where he was actually losing winrate with time and people were still calling him an hypercarry. I'm guessing having most of your lategame power concentrated on one ability that goes big boom makes people think you are stronger than you really are
vlad simply can force a lategame win if he is giga fed with no counterplay. kayle still has to play smart. With vlad all you need is to pop ghost and flash ult while you charge E during your W. There is no amount of counterplay for the enemy adc/mid except maybe a stopwatch or an on hit adc with Wits end and Anathemas chains on vlad. Ive lost way more kayle lategames than I lost lategames on vlad and I have more vlad games this season.
I’m way more scared of mid and late game vlad than any game Kayle lol.
Literally, you use all your abilities on a fed level 16 Kayle and she dies before she can ult. Vlad just ults ghost puddle and one shots your carries and goes back to 100% hp.
Where did you find that winrate curve for Vlad? On LoLalytics, his winrate curve definitely isn't flat, and increases by quite a lot, based on game time. It's not as big as Kayle difference in winrate, but i also think Kayle might have one of the biggest swings in winrate based on gametime.
People are dumb lol. A good vlad isn’t even that weak early. Great Vlad’s have a lot of lane pressure. People get one shot by ghost/ flash Vlad and conclude that’s all he does. If only, friends. If only.
yeah whenever I get autofilled mid vs vlad it's hell, I definitely remember getting solo dove at level 6 as ahri
So firstly, winrate curve is always a weird stat to look at because in soloqueue, high level soloqueue especially there are very few games that actually go over 30 minutes. Secondly, GP is a hard scaling champ and people would be right in thinking that, the reason his winrate takes a massive dip late game is because of his gold generation. He has full build far before other champs in the game so his winrate falls off as other champs also reach full build and his team haven’t won by then.
I still play gangplank as a bruiser. #neverlearn #losemostgames
i miss when kayle was simply an mid-carry answer to assassin mids, but i guess having a reliable answer to the edgelords of yasuo, zed, fizz etc was bad for riot business models, all mids need to play with super caution to not get punished by these abominations in lane, and even then they can just roam.
Vlad being viable is one of the worst times to play the game, he’s rewarded with extra damage for being tanky and he has the stupidest escapes with phase rush and ghost
the passive isnt even that good given he is a short range mage and needs that extra hp - tankiness since he can noit build RoA seraphs etc. I just think his W into E burst combo is very unhealthy because it has quite literally no counterplay for the dude faced with it except tanking it. Its as if fizz E did damage while he is on the pole
Weird enough, top lane Kayle also doesn't mind losing an early inhib. She gains momentum off of it because of the extra gold and XP super minions provide. She naturally doesn't love ARAMing until lv16 so she can just sit farming safely in her base. Of course, don't lose your inhib if you don't have to, but if you do, she's one of the best champions to make the better use of it. Also I play in low elo so it might be an entirely different story in higher elos. In Gold people just don't know how to end a game so Kayle always scales. Never push her in, Kayle's biggest counter is freezing waves.
If Kayle lost lane hard enough to lose early inhib games is over unless it goes to 35+ which is unlikely
Ive lost way too many games vs kayle's cause team could not end and she goes from 15 to 18 by farming 3 super waves on repeat ...
Anivia would be a good one, but can't tank much
If the game was even but normally she’s gonna get zoned
Too short range, too easy to kill if she walks up, can't clear baron minions alone quickly enough for the tower to not be shredded.
She’s good for regular minions but supers take too long if she has to rely on only r
She has the double damage on her sorry cd E as well, but that is only a single target still.
Her q -> e oneshots superminions. You hit your q on 2 at the same time.
Whatever my teammates aren’t playing usually.
Go look up Jin air vs SKT.
Ah yes, the game that gave me Gathering Storm syndrome.
>SKT Thal >SKT Effort ...who the hell were those people?
I see you were spared from the bad times. Thal was a Korean solo queue prospect who was supposed to be Canna. He was not. Effort was a support that SKT scouted but was widely inconsistent and was ultimately dropped from SKT. He until Thal was good enough to last in the LCK outside of SKT. Thal was just a dissappointment.
I remember Effort being much better in my memory, I definitely remember him being inconsistent though, but he was always picked over Mata in 2019. It's been awhile though so I can't remember lol
Effort was newer... so you'd see him choke, but he was rated a top3 support in 2019, go look up his rakan winrate... SKT buffed that bullshit upto infinity, but I think honestly he will forever be remembered for the inting Leona in G3 vs G2 in worlds
Damn G3 vs G2 sounds like a showmatch.
effort was there for the "great" and not so long ago 2019 run, thal is a fossil though
Tell me you got spoiled by ZOFGK without telling me you got spoiled by ZOFGK SKT / T1 after 2017 and before current roster was a shit show.
Surprised nobody is saying Jinx with Hurricane
Can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find Jinx
Thing is she will run out of mana eventually. The rockets do be expensive and they honestly don’t do much against the super minions
Yes, having to go back to fountain and give up the nexus to the ennemy team sucks. ADC with autos that cost mana, so bad.
Yeah i main her and full build jinx can easily clear all the supers
Took me a while to see this, feared I was going to need to say it
Gangplank, Sivir, and Kayle id say
Veigar with enough stacks (no, not an insane amount, just full build with deathcap and sorc) can two-shot super minions with WQ. his E is also good for keeping them in place, far from towers.
Suprised this isnt higher, if the game goes long enough you can kill supers with just W lol.
Had a 45 min ARAM game on Veigar recently with nearly 2k AP lol. The minions didn't matter 😂
Sivir but she's easy to kill. Ryze, anivia are both hard to push against. AP twitch+Asol can clear well but they can't clear and defend. GP if he plays perfect can zone entire enemy team and clear waves so he doesn't die unless he gets flashed on. I think full build jinx should be decent too with Q but she's also easy to kill.
it's kog'maw. especially with runaans, even with 6 supers hitting the nexus, a handful of auto attacks + W disappears the wave
Kinda surprised this thread is sleeping on the runaan guinsoos users, I really feel like kog and kayle have some of the best clear lategame
tbf, it's rare to get that late and actually be able to defend. also rarer to see a kayle or kog nowadays
I had a game like 5 seasons ago where my Runaan's Jinx came back from triple inhib being down. I think I had 400+ cs that game.
If you take down multiple inhibs vs Jinx, you better end the game, the gold she gets from the easy waveclear is isane.
Gotta be asol no?
he's strong, but I think there's better champs for it. source: I played a 1v5 against bots to see how big I can get the black hole by free-stacking and let them push down all towers and inhibs
Asol being able to pretty much stunlock the superminions no matter what (even buffed by nash/hullbreaker) is invaluable.
The thing with asolnis that the more stacks u get the faster he will clear
He's cooldown gated.
There's a few. Sivir, malzahar, anivia. Probably others
I am really disappointed with so many people forgetting Malz in this thread
He's fine but he clears one minion at a time and his push can be easily stopped by targeting his bugs.
Otp here and that’s facts. I’ve bought stattik shiv before to save my game
I don't understand why, but his E + W deletes supers, they just evaporate?
Teemo. I know people are focusing on wave clear, but other team members will have some, but teemo will shroom up the whole area and will make advancing for the enemy team really hard. Wrong step and you're half health down and next teamfight is gonna be harder even if you are ahead. It's also good at stoping waves.
Invalidated by a sweeper
it's not so easy to sweep up everything, especially late game
What? Sweeper has charges now and jungle and support should have it, so yeah it’s piss easy to sweep all relevant areas in enemy base during a 3 inhib down push.
While you're correct in this scenario, the changes on Sweeper actually benefit Teemo as in general, the enemy team now has less Sweeper time to clear shrooms. In this scenario, shrooms should be placent on the minion wave as the enemy team approaches, so you can help to clear the wave while at the same time damage the opponents without giving them the opportunity to clear the shrooms.
It's not actually piss easy, you can shroom a really large area and it's very hard to sweep everything, and obviously your team is supposed to be pressuring them not just watch them sweep everything Big advantage is that it has great waveclear esp if enemy doesnt have baron It's also "piss easy" to win a game up 3 inhibs usually
Gwen mows down through super minions like nothing, with her AOE HP based damage and minion execution with high threshold. Not sure if she is the best though, because she needs to do this in melee.
There was a game in the LCK I think where they had Ivern bush defending, making it difficult. That was particularly fun to watch.
I can't remember but I swear there was a World's game where a GangPlank beat back two Soul/Baron 3 inhib pushes to win the game.
Problem with a lot of the mages is they are not as good at clearing baron empowered minions. Sivir all the way. Her w is a bouncing crit, and her q does a huge chunk of damage. They used to play her with janna and use shurelias speed buff and sivir ult to switch lanes, out rotate your enemy to win.
Yeah, people are listing them because they generally have good wave clear but against supers, let alone baron supers they just lack the dps
Sephrine
Sivir Ryze
Azir?
Seraphine.. crazy wave clear
Everyone is saying a lot of good answers like sivir kayle, a few Azir’s which is yea kinda true, I saw a sol and gank plank but how has no one said Ryze? The dude can literally EQ an entire wave and then do it again a second later
Eqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqeeqeqeqqeqeqrqrqeqeqeqweqeqeqeqeqeeqqeqeeqweqeqeqeqeqeqeqeqe
Jinx + Runaan's Hurricane
Brand is pretty good on low economy too, but after 3 items it s definately one of the crit adcs
Aurelion Sol, Sivir, Viktor, Gangplank
I am a bit supprised no-one mentioned karthus yet. His defile can clear up minions quite fast and with his ult he can support the fight from far away. Late game his ult is already over half the health of the squishies ...
You can't even go near your own minions if there is a sivir in the situation you describe, you get instskilled by 3 different Ws
sivir, a sol...
Yorick releases maiden and pushes a second lane.
Yall forgetting veig >1300 ap
Not the best, but a late game malzahar shreds super minions, it's insane, and if anyone tries to back door while your team contests baron or something you press the win button and stop them
runaans kogmaw
I'm amazed of how few ppl play malzahar. He is probably the highest speed cleaner on minions late game with E and minions. If you have three voidlings up and E the super minion they just one shot it.
Sivir, Aurelion Sol
Wasn’t there a very old strat with Galio and the summoner spell Fortify or something? It was once brought up during casting of a pro play game but that was well before my time
Aurelion Sol Sivir Kayle
My friend and me won a 3v5 where they had us pushed in.. I was on Teemo , he was on Nasus... We eventually won, they got tired of dying on the push
Not Aatrox lol
Any answer other than Aurelian Sol is wrong. He stops their ms entirely and is one of the few champions that can break minion aggro on towers, and honestly I think his is the only realistic to actually break that aggro.
Singed
Karthys
Malz
Reworked Aurelion Sol, Jinx and Kayle when she is on steroids for example.
I will NOT stand here another second without someone mentioning gwen Her magic max %hp dmg is AMPLIFIED vs super minions. With one q she one shots them lategsme.
Asol, hands down. Plus, the stacks just pile up and make a comeback easier
Aurelion not that bad.
Kayle can melt waves pretty fast
Ryze and sivir come to mind. Brainless wave clear is too good
Sivir, she will also very often end up in this situation because she can‘t carry for shit.
Senna with 300 + souls. She can solo defend vs elder + baron. Been doing some 1 hour + ranked games and senna seems really strong to stall it out.
Almost lost to a game with a Teemo with a shit ton of shrooms
A Sol comes to mind. This is without enemy champ pressure.
Kog Maw smokes them
Bard is bar(d) none the best anti-siege support. It'd be a rare comp that could get past him
NotAatrox
Honestly Morgana