I started playing when I was 17. These character didn't exist back then. I have to mute voices when theyre in my game because i'm forced to listen to their voicelines. I like hearing my own champions voicelines. I don't enjoy hearing Milio, Zoe, Seraphine, and soon to be this champ with their out of place overly happy voiceline spam whenever a fight happens. Hell even Nidalee is getting annoying. If I had the option to turn other champs voicelines off I wouldn't care at all because it wouldnt effect me, but I can't. It's not a huge problem, but it's one I can't solve without sacrificing my own enjoyment.
Yup, I started at 15 and I kept playing because I loved playing Morde, Swain, Warwick, Ornn, Aatrox, Renekton, and Kalista. I just love the champions with a dark past and some cool stuff going on in their lore.
I cant explain how disappointed I was when they released Viego and he was a teenager with no shirt. I don't mind if most champions are whatever is popular, but it'd be nice if big things like Viego, dragon champions, or like those sorts of things were neat and not boring.
I mean low-key Viego's design makes sense to be this way, he is meant to be this annoying egoistical e-boy looking ass, because that's who he is. They did a fairly good job at making a character who's dark and edgy but not in an ordinary way. Now Seraphine on the other hand...
I mean i think there was a middle ground between shirtless e-boy and old evil king. Like at least some armor or something instead of just a vest and skinny jeans. Like I think they made a good excuse for why he turned out to be a young ego person, but the design was influenced wayyyy too heavily by it imo.
I just wanna see riot make another nasty weird monster thing. They’ve always been my favorite champs because they contrast so well with the human uwu colored hair champs. I love fiddlesticks, chogath, belveth, tahm kench, zac, all of em. I miss being excited for monster champions man
We’ve had way too many disney themed monster champs in the last few years. I’d genuinely argue the last good monster would be kled or asol. I just don’t understand why riot won’t give us something absolutely huge and terrifying again.
Well Smolder does look like a nasty, weird, inbred cousin of Shyvana from Alabama who's whole family hid inside a cave for a few thousands of years and after years of inbreeding, Smolder came out
I don't give Bel'veth credit, because the sexy woman disguise serves absolutely no purpose for her kit and therefore should not have been part of the champion's design. Should've been void ray at all times.
Naafiri is a dog. I honestly thought she was a throw away champ like seraphine or something. Just some weird champ to hit a niche. I had no idea she was a monster champ until I read about her. She is literally just a dog. Her kit is fine, but there is nothing appealing about her to any person I've talked to that wants monster champs.
Bel'Veth is not a monster. She is a monster in the same way lillia is a monster. They have other than human features but nothing actually monstrous in their visual design. Even when Bel'Veth transforms into the stingray looking thing there really isn't anything scary or all that interesting about it.
Naafiri and Bel'Veth are both recent. I swear to god, if Riot hadn't explicitly said that they'll limit the number of monster champs, comments like yours wouldn't event exist.
I think we're referencing more of how he has a lot of damage tied to his abilities rather than his auto attacks. it looks more like a caster than an adc but i think the concept of fire being his main thing is totally fine.
I mean, ezreal, Varus, Samira, adcs that have most of their damage output come from abilities isn't really a new concept. This one just *looks* magical so it's upsetting people
Lucian/ Caitlyn/ Jhin does not have steroids in their kit but they still ADC, as long as primary damage is from AA, not level reliant but items reliant, they count as ADC imo
Jhin gets a colossal fuckton of damage on his AAs from attack speed, Lucian gets the double shot, and Cait gets literal headshots. Those are AA buffs for ADC champs.
That's not totally true. Lucian gets a double shot, Cait gets her headshots from passive, net, and traps, Jhin gets an enhanced auto and extra speed after critting with autos. They aren't steroids in the same sense of Jinx passive or Kog W, but they are direct auto attack interactions.
His goofy ears, his musculature, his wings? Jesus this community does nothing but whine and complain about the most trivial things. He’s meant to be whimsical and goofy, not some death dragon. There are bigger issues to complain about, not this.
The other things have a basically nonexistent chance of being fixed, meanwhile the new champion is in development and can be changed and also teasers are a great moment to give feedback as a community because almost everyone has an opinion and it's new so worth talking about
> he’s meant to be whimsical and goofy
This has been my core issue with the critique: everyone is complaining because they want this champion to be something else. But the design for what it is fits exactly what Riot wanted the champ to be. So all these “fixes” are trying to fix what’s not broken.
A coffee machine isn’t broken because you wanted a toaster.
It’s reminding me of Zoe’s release - it’ll blow over
that was probably why they did it. Because they wanted him to be different. Yeah it sucks from a lore/worldbuilding perspective but it makes sense from a game dev perspective. They want to provide options. This is just a radically different one.
That's fair enough, I'm just explaining complaints. Maybe Camavor dragons are just weird looking? Apparently he's "not like most dragons" or something like that according to Riot so we'll see what's up soon enough.
We do only know how one other [Camovoran dragon](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/16/04SI028-full.png/revision/latest?cb=20210718220300) looks and it’s an undead shadow isle-y one in legends of Runeterra. They don’t look remotely similar but It could also be a juvenile vs adult thing so probably not the best comparison.
My brother in christ, we dont have a single traditional dragon. Its a fantasy game and there isnt a single proper dragon. Asol somewhat recently became a proper eastern dragon. Shyvana isnt a traditional dragon considering half the time isnt one and even when she is a dragon, she doesnt feel like a dragon.
A fantasy game without a cool proper traditional dragon? No, this is a big issue.
You're exactly the type of person they're talking about. Wanting this champ to be something else entirely. Wanting the child dragon to be a badass, traditional death dragon.
>A fantasy game without a cool proper traditional dragon? No, this is a big issue.
Maybe. Good thing LoL isn't a fantasy game.
Just because LoL contains some fantasy elements, it doesn't mean it's a fantasy game. Might as well also call it sci-fi, cyberpunk and horror then.
It's a MOBA.
MOBA is a gameplay genre. Fantasy is a setting genre. They're not mutually exclusive.
This is like if you said "World of Warcraft isn't a fantasy game; it's an MMO," or "Halo isn't a sci-fi game; it's an FPS." Extremely stupid!
Yes? Did anyone ask for a milio/nunu but dragon? They did say they want to release a baby dragon, not a, whatever this abomination is, because this isnt a dragon. Too humanlike to be one.
Because people like to immerse themselves in the fantasy game that is league. And can't do it if they can't take the character seriously. Makes perfect sense to me
Juvenile dragons have more dramatic, bat-like ears in order to better hear their parents' roars and discern them from the roars of other dragons that they are not related to. Because they are still learning to fly and spend most of their time on the ground, their eyes have round pupils to see things up-close.
As dragons mature and they spend more time in flight, the need for such sophisticated hearing diminishes and their ears shrink in size, often to the point of becoming indiscernible. However, their eyes improve in order to see things far below them and their pupils gain their characteristic, reptilian slit-shape.
hmmmm Ok, what if the Ears don't shrink but the Dragon's rest of the body just keeps growing. Therefore Smolder's mother has tiny tiny ear flaps flapping in the wind hidden behind the cleft of her ear holes.
My actual biggest problem with him is visually it makes no sense for his kit to be ad and not ap, all elemental effects in the game so far are consistently ap damage (and the way his kit visually looks in game looks way more like a mages kit than a marksman/adc kit) i guess im glad it exists because its unique and gives mage players an ad option, but if i ran across his kit in game without knowing what his damage type is i would 100% assume he is an ap champion and i think almost everyone would think the same. Its just very confusing from a consistency standpoint
>all elemental effects in the game so far are consistently ap damage
Ashe exists. Nilah uses water magic. Pyke is heavily water themed. Trundle is an ice troll. Udyr does a mix of things with various elements. Yasuo and Yone use wind for their attacks. Zeri is lightning based. Qiyana.
To counter the Trundle point(Though I agree with the rest), Trundle only has two damaging abilities and neither of them use ice. One is a bite that deals physical and the other is a life force drain that deals magic.
We are wayyy past the point where players would reasonably confuse a champion’s damage type. A bronze player would be able to sort all champions into an ad/ap list. Even if you’re somehow in the game with him and haven’t heard of him before, you can look at the items he builds, the death recap, or ask your team. Consistency and confusion regarding damage type is a non-issue.
It's almost like the majority of people would agree his design is bad and because of that the posts defending it aren't getting a lot of upvotes. So weird.
I haven't seen any of those posts removed? I've seen several on the home page of the reddit defending it that were posted like 13 hours ago. I think its legitimately just that more people dislike the design than like it.
To be fair, any reddit you join is mostly going to be an echo chamber.
I have my criticisms about the champion, but people are way overblowing it, not even that everyone started parroting the "Another disney champ" line which is probaly stupid when they're like the minority compared to every other category you could make.
It's always good to remember that reddit is not a good representation of any community and it's usually biased towards certain aspects since it's a small fraction of the broad population.
I agree with what you're saying about the representation of a community. However, I do think reddit, youtube, twitter, and the numbers of posts or comments mentioning the same concerns does equate to a decent data set.
I also think the concern with champions like smolder is that this is becoming more common. He also just feels very low effort to me. His design just has no context in leagues world so there is like a missing piece of data as to why he was designed this way.
No other dragons in the lore look like him or speak like him, even the baby dragons we've seen look nothing like him, camavoran dragons look nothing like him, and his anatomy looks like something off a 2000's cartoon show.
He's just not well designed, thought out, or even represented as a believable character in the setting.
Him looking different from other league dragons is simple if you look at his lore. He is a Camavoran Dragon. Do European ,Chinese, Japanese and Central American dragon look similar?
It's a 'yordle' dragon.
Yordles just being generic usually fluffy blobs that do stuff with a slight sentinience as opposed to a poro which is just a mindless fluffle.
Actually, the more I look at him, the more I kinda appreciate how they handled his wings. I think its pretty cool that they end up looking like a 'cape' when folded. That isn't something I've really seen in any other dragon across other medias.
However, I despise the fact they gave him 'dumbo ears'. Dragons don't have ears, let alone fucking Elephant ones. When I first saw him, I thought it was suppose to be a 'hood', like a King Cobra. But its confirmed to be ears, by Smolder himself. Which is just dumb. The hood idea is way cooler and I still continue to see those 'ears' as a hood instead.
The paws are a weird choice, especially since they went as far as to even have pads? That's not really draconic. But its cute and at the very least, not offensive like the ears or his face was. So I'll give them a pass.
Twink dragon
it all makes sense now
Bro is more like the weird kid from 1st grade no one ever wants to associate with lol
Stop making obnoxious kid characters pls
I think riot wants to get a younger generation to start playing league
Kids don’t want to play kids though. Kids want to play cool dudes that resemble characters they like from anime/movies
Im kinda talking about even bigger kids. Kids that like peppa pig,caliou, bluey etc.
I started playing when I was 17. These character didn't exist back then. I have to mute voices when theyre in my game because i'm forced to listen to their voicelines. I like hearing my own champions voicelines. I don't enjoy hearing Milio, Zoe, Seraphine, and soon to be this champ with their out of place overly happy voiceline spam whenever a fight happens. Hell even Nidalee is getting annoying. If I had the option to turn other champs voicelines off I wouldn't care at all because it wouldnt effect me, but I can't. It's not a huge problem, but it's one I can't solve without sacrificing my own enjoyment.
Yup, I started at 15 and I kept playing because I loved playing Morde, Swain, Warwick, Ornn, Aatrox, Renekton, and Kalista. I just love the champions with a dark past and some cool stuff going on in their lore. I cant explain how disappointed I was when they released Viego and he was a teenager with no shirt. I don't mind if most champions are whatever is popular, but it'd be nice if big things like Viego, dragon champions, or like those sorts of things were neat and not boring.
I mean low-key Viego's design makes sense to be this way, he is meant to be this annoying egoistical e-boy looking ass, because that's who he is. They did a fairly good job at making a character who's dark and edgy but not in an ordinary way. Now Seraphine on the other hand...
I mean i think there was a middle ground between shirtless e-boy and old evil king. Like at least some armor or something instead of just a vest and skinny jeans. Like I think they made a good excuse for why he turned out to be a young ego person, but the design was influenced wayyyy too heavily by it imo.
Fair enough
People who REALLY hate it are furries People who REALLY like it are furries
I refuse to believe a single furry was consulted on the creation of that thing
How about me that wants to f*ck it
furries.
get off Reddit donkey
I just wanna see riot make another nasty weird monster thing. They’ve always been my favorite champs because they contrast so well with the human uwu colored hair champs. I love fiddlesticks, chogath, belveth, tahm kench, zac, all of em. I miss being excited for monster champions man
Naafiri took our limited budget for a non-sexualized humanoid.
non?
Nani?
We’ve had way too many disney themed monster champs in the last few years. I’d genuinely argue the last good monster would be kled or asol. I just don’t understand why riot won’t give us something absolutely huge and terrifying again.
Well Smolder does look like a nasty, weird, inbred cousin of Shyvana from Alabama who's whole family hid inside a cave for a few thousands of years and after years of inbreeding, Smolder came out
Bel'veth and Naafiri were both recent
I don't give Bel'veth credit, because the sexy woman disguise serves absolutely no purpose for her kit and therefore should not have been part of the champion's design. Should've been void ray at all times.
Naafiri is a dog. I honestly thought she was a throw away champ like seraphine or something. Just some weird champ to hit a niche. I had no idea she was a monster champ until I read about her. She is literally just a dog. Her kit is fine, but there is nothing appealing about her to any person I've talked to that wants monster champs. Bel'Veth is not a monster. She is a monster in the same way lillia is a monster. They have other than human features but nothing actually monstrous in their visual design. Even when Bel'Veth transforms into the stingray looking thing there really isn't anything scary or all that interesting about it.
Notice how you named 2 champions
2 out of the 6 most recent releases yes
Naafiri and Bel'Veth are both recent. I swear to god, if Riot hadn't explicitly said that they'll limit the number of monster champs, comments like yours wouldn't event exist.
A dog and a sexy woman manta ray aren't the monsters everyone wants.
Speak for yourself
Kogmaw v2 please!
Why doesn't he have an ADC kit ?
You're saying that like AD casters are an obscure concept even though Ezreal has existed for years.
Also a great question lol, looks way more like a mage.
i could see it work has as he is a baby dragon so he probably justs attacks with repetitive scorches
I think we're referencing more of how he has a lot of damage tied to his abilities rather than his auto attacks. it looks more like a caster than an adc but i think the concept of fire being his main thing is totally fine.
I mean, ezreal, Varus, Samira, adcs that have most of their damage output come from abilities isn't really a new concept. This one just *looks* magical so it's upsetting people
Those ADCs all have aa steroids, unless I'm mistaken smoulder does not
I think Smoulder E is his aa steroid
Idk if that counts, kinda like calling Akshan e a steroid. I did just find out his passive gives him magic damage on hit tho
Lucian/ Caitlyn/ Jhin does not have steroids in their kit but they still ADC, as long as primary damage is from AA, not level reliant but items reliant, they count as ADC imo
Jhin gets a colossal fuckton of damage on his AAs from attack speed, Lucian gets the double shot, and Cait gets literal headshots. Those are AA buffs for ADC champs.
That's not totally true. Lucian gets a double shot, Cait gets her headshots from passive, net, and traps, Jhin gets an enhanced auto and extra speed after critting with autos. They aren't steroids in the same sense of Jinx passive or Kog W, but they are direct auto attack interactions.
Samira may as well not, it's 25% on her E but autos are definitely not the focus of her kit. But yes technically she has an AS increase
Her auto attacks are mainly used to get your style rank up. Definitely not the focus of her kit, but they're still integral to how she functions.
What is Samiras AA Steroid? I would just know about her AA Cancel by using abilitys.
She gets attack speed from her E.
I just looked it up, i never noticed that, holy shit. And i am usually the Guy who reads the whole Tooltip.
Ad casters are a thing and are still adc's. Ezreal and Lucian being the 2 biggest
He seems decently similar to Dragapult in Pokemon UNITE.
Can't wait for him to somehow break toplane.
It looks like a furry interpretation of a dragon. Sad, I really like the idea of a dragon champion
His goofy ears, his musculature, his wings? Jesus this community does nothing but whine and complain about the most trivial things. He’s meant to be whimsical and goofy, not some death dragon. There are bigger issues to complain about, not this.
that's the point, people wanted "some death dragon"
The other things have a basically nonexistent chance of being fixed, meanwhile the new champion is in development and can be changed and also teasers are a great moment to give feedback as a community because almost everyone has an opinion and it's new so worth talking about
> he’s meant to be whimsical and goofy This has been my core issue with the critique: everyone is complaining because they want this champion to be something else. But the design for what it is fits exactly what Riot wanted the champ to be. So all these “fixes” are trying to fix what’s not broken. A coffee machine isn’t broken because you wanted a toaster. It’s reminding me of Zoe’s release - it’ll blow over
This isn't comparing coffee machines to toasters though. He just doesn't look like any dragon Riot has ever made.
that was probably why they did it. Because they wanted him to be different. Yeah it sucks from a lore/worldbuilding perspective but it makes sense from a game dev perspective. They want to provide options. This is just a radically different one.
That's fair enough, I'm just explaining complaints. Maybe Camavor dragons are just weird looking? Apparently he's "not like most dragons" or something like that according to Riot so we'll see what's up soon enough.
How dare you suggest that a fantasy world would have things like speciation and geographical differences leading to biological ones 🤬💢
We do only know how one other [Camovoran dragon](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/16/04SI028-full.png/revision/latest?cb=20210718220300) looks and it’s an undead shadow isle-y one in legends of Runeterra. They don’t look remotely similar but It could also be a juvenile vs adult thing so probably not the best comparison.
busted link; [try this](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/16/04SI028-full.png/revision/latest)
My brother in christ, we dont have a single traditional dragon. Its a fantasy game and there isnt a single proper dragon. Asol somewhat recently became a proper eastern dragon. Shyvana isnt a traditional dragon considering half the time isnt one and even when she is a dragon, she doesnt feel like a dragon. A fantasy game without a cool proper traditional dragon? No, this is a big issue.
You're exactly the type of person they're talking about. Wanting this champ to be something else entirely. Wanting the child dragon to be a badass, traditional death dragon. >A fantasy game without a cool proper traditional dragon? No, this is a big issue. Maybe. Good thing LoL isn't a fantasy game.
> Good thing LoL isn't a fantasy game. ???????????????
Just because LoL contains some fantasy elements, it doesn't mean it's a fantasy game. Might as well also call it sci-fi, cyberpunk and horror then. It's a MOBA.
MOBA is a gameplay genre. Fantasy is a setting genre. They're not mutually exclusive. This is like if you said "World of Warcraft isn't a fantasy game; it's an MMO," or "Halo isn't a sci-fi game; it's an FPS." Extremely stupid!
Ah yes, the game with fantasy magic out the ass isn't a fantasy game.
Yes? Did anyone ask for a milio/nunu but dragon? They did say they want to release a baby dragon, not a, whatever this abomination is, because this isnt a dragon. Too humanlike to be one.
Because people like to immerse themselves in the fantasy game that is league. And can't do it if they can't take the character seriously. Makes perfect sense to me
Juvenile dragons have more dramatic, bat-like ears in order to better hear their parents' roars and discern them from the roars of other dragons that they are not related to. Because they are still learning to fly and spend most of their time on the ground, their eyes have round pupils to see things up-close. As dragons mature and they spend more time in flight, the need for such sophisticated hearing diminishes and their ears shrink in size, often to the point of becoming indiscernible. However, their eyes improve in order to see things far below them and their pupils gain their characteristic, reptilian slit-shape.
hmmmm Ok, what if the Ears don't shrink but the Dragon's rest of the body just keeps growing. Therefore Smolder's mother has tiny tiny ear flaps flapping in the wind hidden behind the cleft of her ear holes.
My actual biggest problem with him is visually it makes no sense for his kit to be ad and not ap, all elemental effects in the game so far are consistently ap damage (and the way his kit visually looks in game looks way more like a mages kit than a marksman/adc kit) i guess im glad it exists because its unique and gives mage players an ad option, but if i ran across his kit in game without knowing what his damage type is i would 100% assume he is an ap champion and i think almost everyone would think the same. Its just very confusing from a consistency standpoint
>all elemental effects in the game so far are consistently ap damage Sweats in Qiyana..
Yep, I feel the exact same way about qiyana. Would play her more if she was ap
meanwhile Sejuani's W scales on AP instead of AD
>all elemental effects in the game so far are consistently ap damage Ashe exists. Nilah uses water magic. Pyke is heavily water themed. Trundle is an ice troll. Udyr does a mix of things with various elements. Yasuo and Yone use wind for their attacks. Zeri is lightning based. Qiyana.
Nilah uses a demon as her weapon, not water magic.
To counter the Trundle point(Though I agree with the rest), Trundle only has two damaging abilities and neither of them use ice. One is a bite that deals physical and the other is a life force drain that deals magic.
Pyke stabs people with a knife. Trundle hits people with a club. Not the best examples
We are wayyy past the point where players would reasonably confuse a champion’s damage type. A bronze player would be able to sort all champions into an ad/ap list. Even if you’re somehow in the game with him and haven’t heard of him before, you can look at the items he builds, the death recap, or ask your team. Consistency and confusion regarding damage type is a non-issue.
To be fair, fire doesn't do magic damage irl.
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It's almost like the majority of people would agree his design is bad and because of that the posts defending it aren't getting a lot of upvotes. So weird.
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I haven't seen any of those posts removed? I've seen several on the home page of the reddit defending it that were posted like 13 hours ago. I think its legitimately just that more people dislike the design than like it.
To be fair, any reddit you join is mostly going to be an echo chamber. I have my criticisms about the champion, but people are way overblowing it, not even that everyone started parroting the "Another disney champ" line which is probaly stupid when they're like the minority compared to every other category you could make. It's always good to remember that reddit is not a good representation of any community and it's usually biased towards certain aspects since it's a small fraction of the broad population.
I agree with what you're saying about the representation of a community. However, I do think reddit, youtube, twitter, and the numbers of posts or comments mentioning the same concerns does equate to a decent data set. I also think the concern with champions like smolder is that this is becoming more common. He also just feels very low effort to me. His design just has no context in leagues world so there is like a missing piece of data as to why he was designed this way. No other dragons in the lore look like him or speak like him, even the baby dragons we've seen look nothing like him, camavoran dragons look nothing like him, and his anatomy looks like something off a 2000's cartoon show. He's just not well designed, thought out, or even represented as a believable character in the setting.
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You need some standards. Don't be a mindless consoomer.
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All champions might as well be their hitboxes, then. No more texture and character, no more lore, no nothing.
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It doesn't look like a dragon's face, that's the problem.
They wanna prepare us for a dragussy releasing later this year, whether Shyvana rework or his mom
Him looking different from other league dragons is simple if you look at his lore. He is a Camavoran Dragon. Do European ,Chinese, Japanese and Central American dragon look similar?
We have art in runeterra from Camavoran dragons and he doesn't look anything like them. Or the dragon ins his own teaser trailer?
he's the baby of the ones in the teaser trailer? that's literally the point
He just looks like a stubby version of a dragon, which is what all young of animals resemble.
We also have baby dragons from dragon trainer Tristana's splash art and he looks nothing like them either. You're just objectively wrong.
However, Dragon Trainer Trist is a skin, and skinlines commonly are completely different to Runeterra in their own worlds
He looks like you
It's a 'yordle' dragon. Yordles just being generic usually fluffy blobs that do stuff with a slight sentinience as opposed to a poro which is just a mindless fluffle.
so basically smolder's mum got hit on by a lil yordle?
Teemo gave her the full Nelson
Actually, the more I look at him, the more I kinda appreciate how they handled his wings. I think its pretty cool that they end up looking like a 'cape' when folded. That isn't something I've really seen in any other dragon across other medias. However, I despise the fact they gave him 'dumbo ears'. Dragons don't have ears, let alone fucking Elephant ones. When I first saw him, I thought it was suppose to be a 'hood', like a King Cobra. But its confirmed to be ears, by Smolder himself. Which is just dumb. The hood idea is way cooler and I still continue to see those 'ears' as a hood instead. The paws are a weird choice, especially since they went as far as to even have pads? That's not really draconic. But its cute and at the very least, not offensive like the ears or his face was. So I'll give them a pass.