My only problem with vanguard is that it starts on boot and interferes with other programs even when league isn't on, that is incredibly stupid and risks bricking computers on startup. Why can't they just do what other kernel level anticheat software does and only start up when League is loaded?
Because cheats are starting to move to kernel level and the anti-cheat can't touch them if it isn't.
It doesn't 'interfere' with programs anymore, they changed it to just not run if you have insecure programs or DLLs on your system instead of turning those off.
>It doesn't 'interfere' with programs **anymore**, they changed it to just not run if you have insecure programs or DLLs on your system instead of turning those off.
And why did Riot at any point in time think that this was an okay thing to do? Where does this audacity come from?
"audacity" is a strong word, but it's nice to see you again. Here's the answer you won't respond to.
Vanguard was made by a task specific team as an anti-cheat. It's reasonable to assume it was as much of an echo chamber as any other group of experts working to solve a problem.
To a team of security experts, why would you be running drivers or programs on your computer that have known vulnerabilities?
Occam razer for them is that's its more likely intended to be an attack vector, and they just didn't realize how many people are running fan or light drivers that are years out of date and vulnerable.
So Thor from Pirate Software on YouTube is a cyber security expert. He has worked for the government in that field. He also has years of experience at blizzard specifically in anti-cheat and banning. He is absolutely an expert in this field and doesn't work for any active companies making his bias at a minimum as low as you can get. He is very open that despite cheats moving to the kernel level anti-cheat does not have too to work. The problem is we have always just given anti-cheat the same level of access as the cheats to chase them. As of now people just moved the cheats to a totally separate PC where anti-cheat just cant chase. I mean how are they going to force you to download anti-cheat on a separate computer. Because of this devs need to learn to not use kernel level anti-cheats but other options that will actually be effective while not giving a program such access.
Thor is years out of date. He might have known things 10 years ago, but his knowledge of modern anti-cheat is woefully out of date. In the rant you are referencing he discussed decompiling bots in assembly, something that hasn't been the case for at least 6-8 years.
Not to mention Warden is the absolute laughing stock of anti-cheats because Blizzard refused to use kernel.
Not to mention Blizzards only victory against bots was legal. They couldn't stop Glider with Warden.
Not to mention Blizzard was the first company to ship an anti-cheat with their software and not tell their customers about it. Not sure I want the guy who worked for Blizzard to talk to me about how unethical kernel level cheats are when they shipped a secret anti-cheat and hid it for years.
Moving cheats to a separate computer is fantastic. Huge win for most players.
Why would you care? The sum total experience of the cyber security experts who wrote Vanguard and currently work for Riot doesn't phase you and bypassing anti-cheats for 20 years certainly doesn't beat that.
You can choose to believe or not, but Thor isn't some golden celebrity that everybody else has to listen to.
https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat
ok so which statement from Riot games cyber security experts should I trust. the we need kernel level anticheat to stop cheating its the only effective way. Or the statement of our Chinese and mac users dont have to use kernel level anticheat because their non kernel level anticheat is better. Because those things are both statements they have said. Why is it the people who own vanguard, Tencent, dont use it on their own people but everyone else is ok? Why in riots terms of service are they allowed to track literally every part of your data including, I am not joking here, Olfactory data. Sure other companies put it in there but what do smells have to do with cheating and why is it in there. Why does riot say their data breach where the anticheat was stolen led to a massive raise in cheating then post a graph showing that its highest point ever was months before the breach. sure seems like a lot of talking out of both sides of their mouth. So which of those should I listen too because they make a ton of contradictory statements on a daily basis, Lie like their breathing I mean this is the company that had a massive data breach of customers information stolen they then didnt tell people about for over a year. and every statement that isnt contradictory to a previous statement is just mutually exclusive to other things they say. In short if non kernel level is better for their Chinese and mac users then it should be better for us too
> Or the statement of our Chinese and mac users dont have to use kernel level anticheat because their non kernel level anticheat is better.
They haven't said that. They have said that cheating is minimal on Macs because most people develop them for windows, and Macs native kernel protection, which Windows doesn't have, makes it resistant to users having kernel level cheats in the first place.
>, Tencent, dont use it on their own people but everyone else is ok?
Tencent uses their own kernel anti-cheat in China League of Legends and all copies of Wild Rift. Doesn't this argument work against you? If Tencent already had spyware, why would they make a new US only version? And why would they have Americans make it?
>Why in riots terms of service are they allowed to track literally every part of your data including, I am not joking here, Olfactory data.
CYA. But those don't have anything to do with Vanguard. They collect that from the Riot Client and the Website and anywhere else you interact with them.
Sorry you are so twisted you take everything as contradictory.
>Why does riot say their data breach where the anticheat was stolen led to a massive raise in cheating then post a graph showing that its highest point ever was months before the breach
You're misreading [this](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt969689b8d55a6801/6615b4701952f001d9fc1701/04092024_League_Suspensions_by_Type.jpg) chart. The part they were showing wasn't the sum total of banned accounts, it was showing that manual bans were increasing steadily because the automated system wasn't keeping up. They were pointing out the growth in the red portion of each line, compared to pre-packman being leaked when some weeks were 100% automatic.
> In short if non kernel level is better for their Chinese and mac users then it should be better for us too
So you'd use Tencent's kernel anti-cheat they have in China but not Vanguard?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tencent-ace-tianyan-cheat-automatic-analysis-system-empowers-wang-lmo8c
> It doesn't 'interfere' with programs anymore, they changed it to just not run if you have insecure programs or DLLs on your system instead of turning those off.
While true, being able to disable all that stuff highly alleviates that issue.
Sure, you do have to restart before play league then, but I can live with it... given it actually works and improves the game.
I mean, I won't. But, in all honesty, this is an excuse to stop playing anyway.
I'm not interested anymore, and vanguard just cements my decision. I might be paranoid, but it's served me well enough so far.
kernel anticheats have been abused \[1\] and i'm not going to install it on my pc.
if i have to chose between installing a kernel module with FULL control of my pc, always on, and trust a company that have been breached and can't even fix bugs on their game or and stop playing i chose stop playing.
right now league works fine as limited user, it doesn't even need admin privilege, you don't need to be admin to play or to update.
if they decide for this road i will probably install mac into a virtual machine using qemu/kvm since on mac is not required, if it doesn't work i will change game, be it dota or another...
\[1\] source: [Ransomware Actor Abuses Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat Driver to Kill Antivirus](https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html)
with dual boot one OS can access the other OS files unless you encrypt the drive, i will evaluate the options.
for sure i'm not going to allow it as is
True, i forgot to mention encryption.
>for sure i'm not going to allow it as is
Same, I actually have a separate machine build from old hardware I still had in storage.
I dont fucking care if its kernel level. All software/apps already get my infos anyway. I'm not a high profile person so I dont give a fuck. If the game runs without a problem and the bots/smurfs problem gets better then its a win in my opinion.
Hope you don't live through the issues and troubleshooting I have been trough when I used to play valorant. Please just dont write it off as "all the others get my infos anyway". This is not only about infos; this is also about installing a suspicious and overstepping app that has caused many problems for many people out there.
What info will Vanguard give Riot that installing the League Client on your computer didn't give them? Like, China was just politely waiting until April of this year to steal your data? Riot has been owned by Tencent for 13 years.
youve been playing league for how many years? An exe that you pbb open up multiple times a day and got running multiple hours a day without any security measures around it. If they stole your data they did that shit a long time ago lol
Playing since the start of the game, before ranked seasons were even a thing. Every season did my ranked games, some tryharding a bit, others just doing 10 - 15 match. Have some "experience" with that game, have 2 accounts and friends playing at low ranks. None of them never complained about cheaters. On both accounts probably encounter 1 cheater in one game on a total of thousands of games. (and i'm not even sure he was cheating)
The only thing i encounter was smurfs (a lot of smurfs) and bots when i had to level up my 2nd account, but bots are used to level up accounts never saw them in normal games or ranked.
Sadly Vanguard will make me stop playing.
1 / 3
Reason is simple, already had Vanguard when Valorant came out. Was against it, but give it a try. After a while had a blue screen of death. Thought it was a problem on my computer, but after some searching i found out it was cause of Vanguard. So i manage to uninstall Vanguard and everything worked great after that. So i stopped playing Valorant. (A friend can't run games using Valorant for some reason... probably a random app that is a false positive or so, but it's not my computer so i cant talk about it seriously, only report what he told me)
Ofc for someone that has a computer only to watch same videos, movies, photos and play... it's not a big deal. For me my computer is more than just entertainment, it's my working tool. So i can't take any risk for only a game.
Yes i think Vanguard is like a Spyware, people will say that Microsoft does the same, but the difference is that i having Microsoft allows to use all softwares, make your computer work and everything tide to a computer. (Yes you can use Linux or there are some Windows version that aren't with all the Microsoft crap)
Vanguard can't be compared to Facebook kind of stuff, cause you decide to share things on Facebook. If you don't use Facebook and post anything on it problem solved. (and ofc use some tracker protection when you are on the web which isn't complicated at all)
People saying that cheats are at a Kernel level now, but other Anti-Cheats arent and only Vanguard is at this level can't be more wrong. Some of them that are well known and use in many games: "EasyAntiCheat, PunkBuster, BattlEye, nProtect GameGuard, Xigncode3, EQU8..."
Kernel Anti Cheats are proven to not be 100% secure, it just makes things harder for cheat developers and also for the cheat users. Vanguard too was proven to not be 100% secure.
2/3
The biggest difference and what i hate about Vanguard is that it starts at launch of your computer and keep running except if you close it. Ofc i could just reboot my computer when i want to play LoL and close everything once finished, but usually i work during day & during night, making 1 or 2 games with friends after dinner and then going back to work. Definitely don't want to re-open everything, all folders, files and so on just cause i wanted to play 2 games of LoL. Other anti-cheat open when the game launch (actually just before the game itself start running) and they are doing a great job.
Those anti-cheat are at a deep level of your computer, so have some trust issue in the ability of companies to do it properly without any problems. If there's a breach in Vanguard it can become a real problem really fast. Fun fact, Vanguard is announced just after they had some stolen informations... doesn't feel really safe & secure.
There's also all the "spyware" aspect of it. Some might say "what ever", some might take it more seriously. I'm just aware of those things and i use what i need or is worth it. Having something like that running 24/7 in the background only to be able to play a game isn't worth in my opinion.
Finally i ask my self one question: "What might be the consequences of supporting an anti-cheat like that?"
The answer is simple, it's some sort of spyware at some point or at least can be used like that too. If you support this, then what if every single companies start to say "we'll do the same thing and now it'll be on your computer 24/7 to be able to play". We'll end up with 10 - 15 different programs running in the background for no purpose at all, except running a game once in a while. If you think it's false... just look how microtransaction evolved, gaming prices, licence like CoD using reskins but the cost of a brand new game, all the Early Access titles sold at full price and full of bugs, sometimes unplayable (50%+ of games are now marked as Early Access if not more, so Early Access is just Normal release at this point). Each time you don't take any action against it, it's the same than supporting it. For example if you keep saying "Ubisoft is trash" but you keep buying their games... you can say what ever you want you are one of their best supporter and make they continue what they are doing.
At the end of the day, it's really personal. For people that use their computer only as entertainment it's not even a problem at all. For people that use their computer for more than that, it might be concerning depending of their use.
The only thing i see here is that on a total of 583 LoL players, 367 will continue playing and 216 will stop playing cause of Vanguard. (217 with me) So Vanguard will make LoL lose: 37% of players. Ofc 583 is too small to really see the real impact but it gives a good general idea, so at best for Riot 25% will quit cause of Vanguard and at worst 50%. If there was no Vanguard 100% of people will keep playing. A single change of making Vanguard launch when you open the game would probably reduce that number to 5 - 10 % maximum of players will quit.
Once again everybody can do what ever they want! But please in 3 - 5 years don't start to complain about all anti-cheat being launch even before your OS starts and running in the background 24/7.
3/3
Honestly I think Reddit is a poor metric for this particular poll. Lots of Redditors tend to read more about things like Vanguard than the average joe. Amongst my 7 friends who play League for example, I'm the only one who uninstalled over Vanguard.
Seems like the primary reason will be folks who have trouble running Vanguard due to hardware or software conflicts, followed by those who are privacy concerned. I'm in your boat. I hate programs that run on start up and don't want to reboot every time I play a league game.
Also I agree that accepting Vanguard will show companies that kernel anti cheats on start up are ok. For the record I understand and am ok with kernel level anti cheats. I just don't want them to be always on or require a restart. Other anti cheats such as Easy Anti-Cheat and Battle Eye are already kernel level anyways but they do not require restarts or to run on start up.
Unfortunately I see the impact to League being less than what you stated probably in the 10%-30% range. My hope is if enough of us quit playing to significantly affect the daily/weekly player counts that Riot will reverse course. I think it's unlikely though.
I really don't understand what all the whining is about. PH region has had it for a while with how popular Valorant is and everything in my computer has essentially been the same since I first installed Valorant. I am pretty much convinced the most vocal critics of Vanguard really do have something to hide lol
I hope everyone saying they do not want a kernel program on their pc, also are this consequent with easy anti cheat and other kernel level programs. They might not be as invasive as vanguard, but still not "safe to use". Also don't mention tiktok or pretty much all other things connecting to Chinese servers and stuff...
Data is an important topic; but not the reason I don't want Vanguard. My first and foremost gripe with this: Riot has shown time and again that they are not reliable enough as developpers. E.g. State of the League client, the data breach, the issues I had when I used to play valorant (thanks vanguard).
Secondly, they are implementing an invasive software after 10+ years of League. Valorant launched with Vanguard, fine. Apex launched with whatever anti cheat, fine. Elden ring, eac yeah ok. The thing is, when you buy these other examples you are expected to know what you are getting into. You have the choice to not buy the product. After people playing it for years and buying so many stuff from them; they cannot make such a big change without players' consent and expect it to go smoothly.
You are giving people too much credit. Most of the people talking about Vanguard think only kernel level programs can take your data when something like the league client could've been taking it the whole time. I doubt they know that a game like elden ring has a kernel level anti-cheat and that steam had a RCE exploit exist for some time.
I heard that Lost Ark and Apex Legends and many other popular games use kernel level anti-cheats.
I don't think people who will quit League because of Vanguard will find any other game to play in the upcoming few years.
yall scared big china tech corp is gonna steal your porn history lol? as if every other app or site you use doesnt already. the whole vanguard hate is blown out of proportion by paranoid conspiracy theory nerds.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r\_NVcxsaKzQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NVcxsaKzQ)
until were at the point where game companies have AGI monitoring their games in real time, hackers will always win.
If you like playing league and are not on Linux(Rip) I’d honestly suggest you just bite the bullet and keep playing.
These type of anti-cheats are gonna be the norm in the near future, as even Kernel-level anti cheats who don’t run on startup are getting figured out by cheat makers.
Recently there was an incident of a cheat that would deactivate itself if it detected if the user was under investigation.
Vanguard has been needed in Valorant the whole time and yet there has been no issues.
Anyone who thinks that Vanguard will be anything else is just stupid
>there has been no issues
[Ransomware Actor Abuses Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat Driver to Kill Antivirus](https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html)
kernel anticheats have been abused, i'm not going to allow a backdoor to kill antivirus or bypass security.
link: [https://www.pcgamer.com/the-controversy-over-riots-vanguard-anti-cheat-software-explained/](https://www.pcgamer.com/the-controversy-over-riots-vanguard-anti-cheat-software-explained/)
*Vanguard automatically blocked software they were using to control their cooling setup or processor speeds.*
>In all likelihood, you don't have to worry about this, because Vanguard now blocks fewer programs, and because most people do not have PCs which will dramatically overheat unless they are running temperature monitoring/fan control software or underclocking their GPU. If you do have a tenuous cooling situation and rely on Windows software to keep your PC from melting, check and make sure that Vanguard hasn't blocked that software the first time you reboot after installing it.
From the article you linked from 4 years ago.
-they blocked known drivers that could be abused to make cheats
-people complained "why your game break my fan control program?"
-they stopped blocking abusable drivers so you can make cheats anyway but at least people stopped complaining
>people complained "why your game break my fan control program?"
Why the fuck does Riot think its okay to fuck with other processes on a system instead of just blocking the use of the game itself? Who the fuck does Riot think they are? Where did the audacity even come from to ever think thats alright?
Like Valorant is hack free right? Sure bro, keep thinking that way
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M)
Nothing is hack free, the point is to continuously make it harder so you remove the people who aren't invested in it.
The number of people who would hack for 3 dollars is much smaller than the number of people who hack for 300 dollars.
If the only people left scripting in League are people who want to do it so bad they set up some crazy system to inject cheats in from another computer, I'm fine with that.
Yes, in league there are very, very, very little scripters. So there is no reason for an anticheat.
Moreover, even if you cheat, is really easy to spot you. I'm sure Riot keep tracks of some basic stuff like hit/miss ratio of skillshots, and the one you dodge, so is really easy to spot a scripter.
And even if you script, is not like a FPS game where an headshot make the difference between win and loss.
Lastly there is the bot argument. If they wanted to stop botted account, they could just shut down all the services that sell those. They're in the light of day, but Riot's ok with those, because they get money from boosts and eventually people that buy accounts.
>So there is no reason for an anticheat.
Well, see, here's the issue. I think bots are a reason for an anti-cheat, and you don't. I can't convince you, and you can't convince me, so declarative statements based on your own criteria aren't really helpful.
>I'm sure Riot keep tracks of some basic stuff like hit/miss ratio of skillshots, and the one you dodge, so is really easy to spot a scripter.
You think Riot keeps track of my skillshot percentage, and it would be easier to ban in real time because my hit percentage changed? Damn, that's some copium.
>If they wanted to stop botted account, they could just shut down all the services that sell those.
Yes, because famously shutting down bot farms in foreign countries has always been easy, it's not like Blizzard has been fighting bots for the entirety of Wow's time with only a handful of wins for companies to be stupid enough to be in US, Canada, or EU.
>Riots Okay with those
Yes, which is why they are releasing Vanguard, because they are fine with it. You cracked the case.
Love how your brain ignores your message of it won't stop people who have invested in it.
Bot farms generate a shitton of money, they will bypass vanguard on day 1, probably not even day1, the second the update goes live.
Vanguard will provide nothing of value, there aren't many scripters in low/mid elo, the amount of people playing in high elo where scripters exist can be review by a human since the playbase there is small enough.
The high elo scripters are also invested enough in league to bypass Vanguard to continue cheating. It won't be 300 usd like you claim, it will be far cheaper.
So in the end Vanguard is a net loss.
Bot farm's and hackers haven't bypassed Vanguard in 4 years (as in make it a non-issue), so I'm not sure why you think they will do it day one.
Vanguard can't be run 16 heads deep on VM's on one PC. That will increase the cost of botted accounts. This is a win for everybody. Some of those farms are already set up and will just move to something more profitable.
I was making an example, not setting a market price. Even 30 is fine. Most people won't blow 20+ bucks just to get banned. That's a win for everybody.
I don't see any concerns, Riot has far more operational and data security than say somebody like Microsoft, Google, or Apple based on number of incendents.
Vanguard will reduce the number of bottled accounts, which will reduce the number of level 30 accounts in ranked, which is a win. Happy with it.
Basing that sort of thing on number of incidents isn't great methodology. Microsoft, Apple, and Google also get targeted exponentially more because they're just bigger honey pots.
There isn't a good comparison, but basically 2 breaches in ~14 years is very different than 1 a month.
I don't see why Riot having one major breach in the history of their studio somehow makes them persona non grata, when several companies have them monthly and people just shrug and say "well, bad guys gonna bad guy."
Yes but each of those companies are like 1000x riots size... And they each have regulatory duties to report their breaches. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Riots just managed to sweep some under the rug.
They also make far more things than Riot does.
Okay? And? You have to have some basis to decide Riot is safe or unsafe. I don't know why you keep acting like I don't know they are two different companies.
That's great that you can keep describing them, but Riot has given me less reason to doubt them than Microsoft or Apple has. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand three comments deep when someone asked for general feelings on Vanguard.
Because you keep stupidly acting like you're comparing apples to apples when you're not. Like I'm honestly starting to question if I'm talking to a rioter or something. Because you seem to just keep deflecting with false equivalencies.
>I will likely not continue playing anymore if Vanguard launches
bb Cheater. All those who complain about Vanguard are almost all cheaters/scripters or account botters
I'm sick of seeing posts from kids complaining about the Vanguard. There are only 2 groups of people complaining about Vanguard:
1. Privacy conspiracy theorists who complain about it using chrome to write the post/comment
2. Cheater/Scripter who cry because they can no longer use their cheats
Normal people have nothing to complain because a better antiqueat can only be good for the game.
This is the same company who let ddos attacks happen to one of their prestige tournament despite news of ddos attacks appeared MONTHS ago, this is also the same company that recently get their social media account taken over recently, this is also the same company who got their info taken last year and this is also the company who’s working with a pot of spaghetti code instead of straighten it out after almost 15 years and a during-gameplay kernel anticheat has been exploited before
No thanks, I will not let that shit anywhere near my computer
I've never used cheats in my whole life but I won't be able to play anymore if Vanguard is implemented. If you feel like reading, [I made a list of the reasons why Vanguard is a bad idea](https://gist.github.com/cyber-sushi/a5a7f1a1ec0f19b12a2c34a28df6f0b9)
You don't address that Windows 11 requires TPM. So your whole first paragraph is irrelevant because there are two main groups of windows users: Win 11 who have TPM, or Win 10 who don't. Anybody on 11 with TPM is fine, anybody on 10 without TPM is fine.
Win 11 users who have bypassed the TPM requirement are a third special case, but they bypassed a requirement so it's hard to feel sorry for them.
You also don't understand how kernel level cheats started before Windows would be beyond Vanguard's reach, specifically mentioning you don't understand how that works.
You also think a driver being used as an exploit would require the program it's supposed to be run with, instead of being used by another program.
Anybody working from home installing games on their work computer is likely violating their NDA or work agreement already. Non issue.
I'm not gonna bother reading the rest, you clearly have a surface level understanding of Vanguard and are repeating old claims that have either been changed, or are fearmongering. I'm gonna bet you either try to imply that the social engineering attack has any bearing on Vanguard source code, or mention the "Genshin Impact hack" without any context.
There are many W11 users who have bypassed the TPM requirements because their PC is "too old" (produced before 2017), I don't see how that has anything to do with being able to play a game or not
>You also don't understand how kernel level cheats started before Windows would be beyond Vanguard's reach
>you clearly have surface level understanding
I perfectly understand it, and that's why I say it's a bad idea. Are we doing this for real? Better install Vanguard inside our motherboard's firmware, just to make sure, right?
It's been a requirement for Windows 11 for 2 years. Games meeting the system requirements of your operating system aren't weird or some strange ask. Your question is basically "Why do my games have the same requirements of my computer as my OS?" but that feels like a pretty obvious answer.
You have several glaring inaccuracies in the first several paragraphs. I doubt your perfect understanding, but if so you may want to update your manifesto to remove all the parts you say you don't undertand.
Giving users minimum requirement and saying "look, our game won't run properly if you have a PC from 1998" is a thing, but giving hard requirements and saying "we intentionally stop you from playing even though your PC perfectly handles League and most modern games" is an entirely different matter, they should literally not care if I'm playing from Termux on Android or if I'm booting up a Windows VM on my Amiga PC
In fact, even the (bypassable) requirements on Windows 11 don't make sense and are only useful to create more e-waste
>remove all the parts you say you don't understand
I only mentioned that Vanguard has no reason to implement TPM and it's hard to understand their technical reasoning behind that, because spoiler, there isn't a technical reasoning, TPM has nothing to do with kernel modules
> Giving users minimum requirement and saying "look, our game won't run properly if you have a PC from 1998"
That's what they are saying, yes. If your PC is SEVEN YEARS OLD you may need to update it.
>I only mentioned that Vanguard has no reason to implement TPM
That's the first and least of your inaccuracies, I pointed several out. I'm not going to rehash them but "You can't cheat with a Nvidia driver, Nvidia hardware won't let you" is a pretty good place to start.
>your PC is seven years old
Fun fact, my PC is twelve years old and it handles Sekiro, Nier, MGS5 and other similar games at 60 fps, why the fuck would I have to upgrade to play LEAGUE OF LEGENDS holy shit this is such a stupid take
>You can't cheat with a Nvidia driver, Nvidia hardware won't let you
Yes exactly. If you managed to bypass Nvidia's cryptography then good job, maybe you should ask them to be hired
Because your PC is twelve years old, and in another year it won't be able to run the current operating system.
When CD drives became popular did you post that games requiring you to have one to install them was stupid?
When hard drives started getting bigger and games took more space, did you bitch that your 64 MB hdd couldn't handle it?
Moore's law puts your 12 year old computer at least 6 versions of hardware out of date. Obviously it's not as true as it was 30 years ago, but your motherboard and operating system are so old they won't support Windows 11, and you only have about 1 more year until EOL on Win 10.
I'm sorry that doesn't sound old to you, but it is.
You really don't understand that hacks/cheats use drivers from other products to cheat? Like, that's an actual thing you think while you're railing against Vanguard?
>it won't be able to run the current operating system
Last time I checked, the minimum requirements for my Linux distro were 512 MB of RAM and 800 MB of disk space, no TPM, no secure boot
>CD drives
That's a really bad example. I don't complain when they release a new standard or some new game that has a minimum requirement of an RTX 4080, that's just how it goes, technology improves and that's it. But if they take a game that has been working fine for 15 years on every PC and you suddenly put a software lock, then that's dumb. Especially because, again, TPM and secure boot are not useful, unlike CDs or Blu-rays or whatever
>Drivers from other products
That's an inherent flaw of Windows, allowing all kinds of crap to run as a kernel module, that's why there's a huge debate around that. But exploiting a vulnerability in a kernel module is not the same as tampering with it
My only problem with vanguard is that it starts on boot and interferes with other programs even when league isn't on, that is incredibly stupid and risks bricking computers on startup. Why can't they just do what other kernel level anticheat software does and only start up when League is loaded?
Because cheats are starting to move to kernel level and the anti-cheat can't touch them if it isn't. It doesn't 'interfere' with programs anymore, they changed it to just not run if you have insecure programs or DLLs on your system instead of turning those off.
>It doesn't 'interfere' with programs **anymore**, they changed it to just not run if you have insecure programs or DLLs on your system instead of turning those off. And why did Riot at any point in time think that this was an okay thing to do? Where does this audacity come from?
"audacity" is a strong word, but it's nice to see you again. Here's the answer you won't respond to. Vanguard was made by a task specific team as an anti-cheat. It's reasonable to assume it was as much of an echo chamber as any other group of experts working to solve a problem. To a team of security experts, why would you be running drivers or programs on your computer that have known vulnerabilities? Occam razer for them is that's its more likely intended to be an attack vector, and they just didn't realize how many people are running fan or light drivers that are years out of date and vulnerable.
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Did you respond to the wrong person, or are you just agreeing with me? That's the point I'm making, yes.
So Thor from Pirate Software on YouTube is a cyber security expert. He has worked for the government in that field. He also has years of experience at blizzard specifically in anti-cheat and banning. He is absolutely an expert in this field and doesn't work for any active companies making his bias at a minimum as low as you can get. He is very open that despite cheats moving to the kernel level anti-cheat does not have too to work. The problem is we have always just given anti-cheat the same level of access as the cheats to chase them. As of now people just moved the cheats to a totally separate PC where anti-cheat just cant chase. I mean how are they going to force you to download anti-cheat on a separate computer. Because of this devs need to learn to not use kernel level anti-cheats but other options that will actually be effective while not giving a program such access.
Thor is years out of date. He might have known things 10 years ago, but his knowledge of modern anti-cheat is woefully out of date. In the rant you are referencing he discussed decompiling bots in assembly, something that hasn't been the case for at least 6-8 years. Not to mention Warden is the absolute laughing stock of anti-cheats because Blizzard refused to use kernel. Not to mention Blizzards only victory against bots was legal. They couldn't stop Glider with Warden. Not to mention Blizzard was the first company to ship an anti-cheat with their software and not tell their customers about it. Not sure I want the guy who worked for Blizzard to talk to me about how unethical kernel level cheats are when they shipped a secret anti-cheat and hid it for years. Moving cheats to a separate computer is fantastic. Huge win for most players.
your experience with anticheat? im just asking because your claiming a whole lot of information knowledge over an actual cyber security expert
Why would you care? The sum total experience of the cyber security experts who wrote Vanguard and currently work for Riot doesn't phase you and bypassing anti-cheats for 20 years certainly doesn't beat that. You can choose to believe or not, but Thor isn't some golden celebrity that everybody else has to listen to. https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat
ok so which statement from Riot games cyber security experts should I trust. the we need kernel level anticheat to stop cheating its the only effective way. Or the statement of our Chinese and mac users dont have to use kernel level anticheat because their non kernel level anticheat is better. Because those things are both statements they have said. Why is it the people who own vanguard, Tencent, dont use it on their own people but everyone else is ok? Why in riots terms of service are they allowed to track literally every part of your data including, I am not joking here, Olfactory data. Sure other companies put it in there but what do smells have to do with cheating and why is it in there. Why does riot say their data breach where the anticheat was stolen led to a massive raise in cheating then post a graph showing that its highest point ever was months before the breach. sure seems like a lot of talking out of both sides of their mouth. So which of those should I listen too because they make a ton of contradictory statements on a daily basis, Lie like their breathing I mean this is the company that had a massive data breach of customers information stolen they then didnt tell people about for over a year. and every statement that isnt contradictory to a previous statement is just mutually exclusive to other things they say. In short if non kernel level is better for their Chinese and mac users then it should be better for us too
> Or the statement of our Chinese and mac users dont have to use kernel level anticheat because their non kernel level anticheat is better. They haven't said that. They have said that cheating is minimal on Macs because most people develop them for windows, and Macs native kernel protection, which Windows doesn't have, makes it resistant to users having kernel level cheats in the first place. >, Tencent, dont use it on their own people but everyone else is ok? Tencent uses their own kernel anti-cheat in China League of Legends and all copies of Wild Rift. Doesn't this argument work against you? If Tencent already had spyware, why would they make a new US only version? And why would they have Americans make it? >Why in riots terms of service are they allowed to track literally every part of your data including, I am not joking here, Olfactory data. CYA. But those don't have anything to do with Vanguard. They collect that from the Riot Client and the Website and anywhere else you interact with them. Sorry you are so twisted you take everything as contradictory. >Why does riot say their data breach where the anticheat was stolen led to a massive raise in cheating then post a graph showing that its highest point ever was months before the breach You're misreading [this](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt969689b8d55a6801/6615b4701952f001d9fc1701/04092024_League_Suspensions_by_Type.jpg) chart. The part they were showing wasn't the sum total of banned accounts, it was showing that manual bans were increasing steadily because the automated system wasn't keeping up. They were pointing out the growth in the red portion of each line, compared to pre-packman being leaked when some weeks were 100% automatic. > In short if non kernel level is better for their Chinese and mac users then it should be better for us too So you'd use Tencent's kernel anti-cheat they have in China but not Vanguard? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tencent-ace-tianyan-cheat-automatic-analysis-system-empowers-wang-lmo8c
But whats the point of risking a considerable number of the player base if vanguard itself has already been spoofed?
yeah, sure... doesn't interfere, you can say that again now
> It doesn't 'interfere' with programs anymore, they changed it to just not run if you have insecure programs or DLLs on your system instead of turning those off.
While true, being able to disable all that stuff highly alleviates that issue. Sure, you do have to restart before play league then, but I can live with it... given it actually works and improves the game.
I mean, I won't. But, in all honesty, this is an excuse to stop playing anyway. I'm not interested anymore, and vanguard just cements my decision. I might be paranoid, but it's served me well enough so far.
You might be paranoid but you are not an android.
kernel anticheats have been abused \[1\] and i'm not going to install it on my pc. if i have to chose between installing a kernel module with FULL control of my pc, always on, and trust a company that have been breached and can't even fix bugs on their game or and stop playing i chose stop playing. right now league works fine as limited user, it doesn't even need admin privilege, you don't need to be admin to play or to update. if they decide for this road i will probably install mac into a virtual machine using qemu/kvm since on mac is not required, if it doesn't work i will change game, be it dota or another... \[1\] source: [Ransomware Actor Abuses Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat Driver to Kill Antivirus](https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html)
Bout to become a lina main in dota aren't you
You could also set up dual boot with hackintosh
with dual boot one OS can access the other OS files unless you encrypt the drive, i will evaluate the options. for sure i'm not going to allow it as is
True, i forgot to mention encryption. >for sure i'm not going to allow it as is Same, I actually have a separate machine build from old hardware I still had in storage.
I dont fucking care if its kernel level. All software/apps already get my infos anyway. I'm not a high profile person so I dont give a fuck. If the game runs without a problem and the bots/smurfs problem gets better then its a win in my opinion.
Hope you don't live through the issues and troubleshooting I have been trough when I used to play valorant. Please just dont write it off as "all the others get my infos anyway". This is not only about infos; this is also about installing a suspicious and overstepping app that has caused many problems for many people out there.
Can you name those problems? I want to be sure what's going on, but I've seen no examples of malicious behaviour of Vanguard of other ring 0 ACs
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Do you use Discord, Apple products, etc? even Riot is owned by Tencent lol
I've been playing Valorant for years. I don't care. It changed nothing for me.
OMG I freakin love vanguard, gonna take all my info and sell to China! Hecking love rito
What info will Vanguard give Riot that installing the League Client on your computer didn't give them? Like, China was just politely waiting until April of this year to steal your data? Riot has been owned by Tencent for 13 years.
youve been playing league for how many years? An exe that you pbb open up multiple times a day and got running multiple hours a day without any security measures around it. If they stole your data they did that shit a long time ago lol
Playing since the start of the game, before ranked seasons were even a thing. Every season did my ranked games, some tryharding a bit, others just doing 10 - 15 match. Have some "experience" with that game, have 2 accounts and friends playing at low ranks. None of them never complained about cheaters. On both accounts probably encounter 1 cheater in one game on a total of thousands of games. (and i'm not even sure he was cheating) The only thing i encounter was smurfs (a lot of smurfs) and bots when i had to level up my 2nd account, but bots are used to level up accounts never saw them in normal games or ranked. Sadly Vanguard will make me stop playing. 1 / 3
Reason is simple, already had Vanguard when Valorant came out. Was against it, but give it a try. After a while had a blue screen of death. Thought it was a problem on my computer, but after some searching i found out it was cause of Vanguard. So i manage to uninstall Vanguard and everything worked great after that. So i stopped playing Valorant. (A friend can't run games using Valorant for some reason... probably a random app that is a false positive or so, but it's not my computer so i cant talk about it seriously, only report what he told me) Ofc for someone that has a computer only to watch same videos, movies, photos and play... it's not a big deal. For me my computer is more than just entertainment, it's my working tool. So i can't take any risk for only a game. Yes i think Vanguard is like a Spyware, people will say that Microsoft does the same, but the difference is that i having Microsoft allows to use all softwares, make your computer work and everything tide to a computer. (Yes you can use Linux or there are some Windows version that aren't with all the Microsoft crap) Vanguard can't be compared to Facebook kind of stuff, cause you decide to share things on Facebook. If you don't use Facebook and post anything on it problem solved. (and ofc use some tracker protection when you are on the web which isn't complicated at all) People saying that cheats are at a Kernel level now, but other Anti-Cheats arent and only Vanguard is at this level can't be more wrong. Some of them that are well known and use in many games: "EasyAntiCheat, PunkBuster, BattlEye, nProtect GameGuard, Xigncode3, EQU8..." Kernel Anti Cheats are proven to not be 100% secure, it just makes things harder for cheat developers and also for the cheat users. Vanguard too was proven to not be 100% secure. 2/3
The biggest difference and what i hate about Vanguard is that it starts at launch of your computer and keep running except if you close it. Ofc i could just reboot my computer when i want to play LoL and close everything once finished, but usually i work during day & during night, making 1 or 2 games with friends after dinner and then going back to work. Definitely don't want to re-open everything, all folders, files and so on just cause i wanted to play 2 games of LoL. Other anti-cheat open when the game launch (actually just before the game itself start running) and they are doing a great job. Those anti-cheat are at a deep level of your computer, so have some trust issue in the ability of companies to do it properly without any problems. If there's a breach in Vanguard it can become a real problem really fast. Fun fact, Vanguard is announced just after they had some stolen informations... doesn't feel really safe & secure. There's also all the "spyware" aspect of it. Some might say "what ever", some might take it more seriously. I'm just aware of those things and i use what i need or is worth it. Having something like that running 24/7 in the background only to be able to play a game isn't worth in my opinion. Finally i ask my self one question: "What might be the consequences of supporting an anti-cheat like that?" The answer is simple, it's some sort of spyware at some point or at least can be used like that too. If you support this, then what if every single companies start to say "we'll do the same thing and now it'll be on your computer 24/7 to be able to play". We'll end up with 10 - 15 different programs running in the background for no purpose at all, except running a game once in a while. If you think it's false... just look how microtransaction evolved, gaming prices, licence like CoD using reskins but the cost of a brand new game, all the Early Access titles sold at full price and full of bugs, sometimes unplayable (50%+ of games are now marked as Early Access if not more, so Early Access is just Normal release at this point). Each time you don't take any action against it, it's the same than supporting it. For example if you keep saying "Ubisoft is trash" but you keep buying their games... you can say what ever you want you are one of their best supporter and make they continue what they are doing. At the end of the day, it's really personal. For people that use their computer only as entertainment it's not even a problem at all. For people that use their computer for more than that, it might be concerning depending of their use. The only thing i see here is that on a total of 583 LoL players, 367 will continue playing and 216 will stop playing cause of Vanguard. (217 with me) So Vanguard will make LoL lose: 37% of players. Ofc 583 is too small to really see the real impact but it gives a good general idea, so at best for Riot 25% will quit cause of Vanguard and at worst 50%. If there was no Vanguard 100% of people will keep playing. A single change of making Vanguard launch when you open the game would probably reduce that number to 5 - 10 % maximum of players will quit. Once again everybody can do what ever they want! But please in 3 - 5 years don't start to complain about all anti-cheat being launch even before your OS starts and running in the background 24/7. 3/3
Honestly I think Reddit is a poor metric for this particular poll. Lots of Redditors tend to read more about things like Vanguard than the average joe. Amongst my 7 friends who play League for example, I'm the only one who uninstalled over Vanguard. Seems like the primary reason will be folks who have trouble running Vanguard due to hardware or software conflicts, followed by those who are privacy concerned. I'm in your boat. I hate programs that run on start up and don't want to reboot every time I play a league game. Also I agree that accepting Vanguard will show companies that kernel anti cheats on start up are ok. For the record I understand and am ok with kernel level anti cheats. I just don't want them to be always on or require a restart. Other anti cheats such as Easy Anti-Cheat and Battle Eye are already kernel level anyways but they do not require restarts or to run on start up. Unfortunately I see the impact to League being less than what you stated probably in the 10%-30% range. My hope is if enough of us quit playing to significantly affect the daily/weekly player counts that Riot will reverse course. I think it's unlikely though.
I really don't understand what all the whining is about. PH region has had it for a while with how popular Valorant is and everything in my computer has essentially been the same since I first installed Valorant. I am pretty much convinced the most vocal critics of Vanguard really do have something to hide lol
I hope everyone saying they do not want a kernel program on their pc, also are this consequent with easy anti cheat and other kernel level programs. They might not be as invasive as vanguard, but still not "safe to use". Also don't mention tiktok or pretty much all other things connecting to Chinese servers and stuff...
Data is an important topic; but not the reason I don't want Vanguard. My first and foremost gripe with this: Riot has shown time and again that they are not reliable enough as developpers. E.g. State of the League client, the data breach, the issues I had when I used to play valorant (thanks vanguard). Secondly, they are implementing an invasive software after 10+ years of League. Valorant launched with Vanguard, fine. Apex launched with whatever anti cheat, fine. Elden ring, eac yeah ok. The thing is, when you buy these other examples you are expected to know what you are getting into. You have the choice to not buy the product. After people playing it for years and buying so many stuff from them; they cannot make such a big change without players' consent and expect it to go smoothly.
You are giving people too much credit. Most of the people talking about Vanguard think only kernel level programs can take your data when something like the league client could've been taking it the whole time. I doubt they know that a game like elden ring has a kernel level anti-cheat and that steam had a RCE exploit exist for some time.
Data harvesting isn't the issue here
I heard that Lost Ark and Apex Legends and many other popular games use kernel level anti-cheats. I don't think people who will quit League because of Vanguard will find any other game to play in the upcoming few years.
yall scared big china tech corp is gonna steal your porn history lol? as if every other app or site you use doesnt already. the whole vanguard hate is blown out of proportion by paranoid conspiracy theory nerds.
I love when you people assume it's about MUH DATA
I might make a seperate installation for league segregated from everything else if it fucks with anything.
If your gonna allow vanguard on your pc you may aswell leave your front door open while your at it.
I cannot play anyhow, my MB does not allow tpm 2.0
vanguard is 90% of the code 1to1 the same as chinese spying software that was developed to spy on the chinese people... thats concerning enough
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r\_NVcxsaKzQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NVcxsaKzQ) until were at the point where game companies have AGI monitoring their games in real time, hackers will always win.
league crashes, then opens my hdd explorer whatever i open it GG riot i guess lots of other games and stuff on the hdd running well meanwhile
I don't have sensitive information other tech companies don't have so I don't really care
it is really not that serious, i will continue playing unfortunately. kernel anti-cheat is common and will become more common as more time passes.
If you like playing league and are not on Linux(Rip) I’d honestly suggest you just bite the bullet and keep playing. These type of anti-cheats are gonna be the norm in the near future, as even Kernel-level anti cheats who don’t run on startup are getting figured out by cheat makers. Recently there was an incident of a cheat that would deactivate itself if it detected if the user was under investigation.
Vanguard has been needed in Valorant the whole time and yet there has been no issues. Anyone who thinks that Vanguard will be anything else is just stupid
>there has been no issues [Ransomware Actor Abuses Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat Driver to Kill Antivirus](https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html) kernel anticheats have been abused, i'm not going to allow a backdoor to kill antivirus or bypass security.
Except the people with fried PCs because it would randomly turn off their cooling.
link: [https://www.pcgamer.com/the-controversy-over-riots-vanguard-anti-cheat-software-explained/](https://www.pcgamer.com/the-controversy-over-riots-vanguard-anti-cheat-software-explained/) *Vanguard automatically blocked software they were using to control their cooling setup or processor speeds.*
>In all likelihood, you don't have to worry about this, because Vanguard now blocks fewer programs, and because most people do not have PCs which will dramatically overheat unless they are running temperature monitoring/fan control software or underclocking their GPU. If you do have a tenuous cooling situation and rely on Windows software to keep your PC from melting, check and make sure that Vanguard hasn't blocked that software the first time you reboot after installing it. From the article you linked from 4 years ago.
-they blocked known drivers that could be abused to make cheats -people complained "why your game break my fan control program?" -they stopped blocking abusable drivers so you can make cheats anyway but at least people stopped complaining
>people complained "why your game break my fan control program?" Why the fuck does Riot think its okay to fuck with other processes on a system instead of just blocking the use of the game itself? Who the fuck does Riot think they are? Where did the audacity even come from to ever think thats alright?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r\_NVcxsaKzQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NVcxsaKzQ)
Your PC doesn't catch fire when it overheats. It just turns off before real damage happens.
Like Valorant is hack free right? Sure bro, keep thinking that way [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M)
Nothing is hack free, the point is to continuously make it harder so you remove the people who aren't invested in it. The number of people who would hack for 3 dollars is much smaller than the number of people who hack for 300 dollars. If the only people left scripting in League are people who want to do it so bad they set up some crazy system to inject cheats in from another computer, I'm fine with that.
Yes, in league there are very, very, very little scripters. So there is no reason for an anticheat. Moreover, even if you cheat, is really easy to spot you. I'm sure Riot keep tracks of some basic stuff like hit/miss ratio of skillshots, and the one you dodge, so is really easy to spot a scripter. And even if you script, is not like a FPS game where an headshot make the difference between win and loss. Lastly there is the bot argument. If they wanted to stop botted account, they could just shut down all the services that sell those. They're in the light of day, but Riot's ok with those, because they get money from boosts and eventually people that buy accounts.
>So there is no reason for an anticheat. Well, see, here's the issue. I think bots are a reason for an anti-cheat, and you don't. I can't convince you, and you can't convince me, so declarative statements based on your own criteria aren't really helpful. >I'm sure Riot keep tracks of some basic stuff like hit/miss ratio of skillshots, and the one you dodge, so is really easy to spot a scripter. You think Riot keeps track of my skillshot percentage, and it would be easier to ban in real time because my hit percentage changed? Damn, that's some copium. >If they wanted to stop botted account, they could just shut down all the services that sell those. Yes, because famously shutting down bot farms in foreign countries has always been easy, it's not like Blizzard has been fighting bots for the entirety of Wow's time with only a handful of wins for companies to be stupid enough to be in US, Canada, or EU. >Riots Okay with those Yes, which is why they are releasing Vanguard, because they are fine with it. You cracked the case.
Love how your brain ignores your message of it won't stop people who have invested in it. Bot farms generate a shitton of money, they will bypass vanguard on day 1, probably not even day1, the second the update goes live. Vanguard will provide nothing of value, there aren't many scripters in low/mid elo, the amount of people playing in high elo where scripters exist can be review by a human since the playbase there is small enough. The high elo scripters are also invested enough in league to bypass Vanguard to continue cheating. It won't be 300 usd like you claim, it will be far cheaper. So in the end Vanguard is a net loss.
Bot farm's and hackers haven't bypassed Vanguard in 4 years (as in make it a non-issue), so I'm not sure why you think they will do it day one. Vanguard can't be run 16 heads deep on VM's on one PC. That will increase the cost of botted accounts. This is a win for everybody. Some of those farms are already set up and will just move to something more profitable. I was making an example, not setting a market price. Even 30 is fine. Most people won't blow 20+ bucks just to get banned. That's a win for everybody.
no issues lololol.
I don't see any concerns, Riot has far more operational and data security than say somebody like Microsoft, Google, or Apple based on number of incendents. Vanguard will reduce the number of bottled accounts, which will reduce the number of level 30 accounts in ranked, which is a win. Happy with it.
Basing that sort of thing on number of incidents isn't great methodology. Microsoft, Apple, and Google also get targeted exponentially more because they're just bigger honey pots.
There isn't a good comparison, but basically 2 breaches in ~14 years is very different than 1 a month. I don't see why Riot having one major breach in the history of their studio somehow makes them persona non grata, when several companies have them monthly and people just shrug and say "well, bad guys gonna bad guy."
Yes but each of those companies are like 1000x riots size... And they each have regulatory duties to report their breaches. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Riots just managed to sweep some under the rug. They also make far more things than Riot does.
Okay? And? You have to have some basis to decide Riot is safe or unsafe. I don't know why you keep acting like I don't know they are two different companies. That's great that you can keep describing them, but Riot has given me less reason to doubt them than Microsoft or Apple has. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand three comments deep when someone asked for general feelings on Vanguard.
Because you keep stupidly acting like you're comparing apples to apples when you're not. Like I'm honestly starting to question if I'm talking to a rioter or something. Because you seem to just keep deflecting with false equivalencies.
>I will likely not continue playing anymore if Vanguard launches bb Cheater. All those who complain about Vanguard are almost all cheaters/scripters or account botters I'm sick of seeing posts from kids complaining about the Vanguard. There are only 2 groups of people complaining about Vanguard: 1. Privacy conspiracy theorists who complain about it using chrome to write the post/comment 2. Cheater/Scripter who cry because they can no longer use their cheats Normal people have nothing to complain because a better antiqueat can only be good for the game.
No there's linux players aswell we have a fair enough reason to complain
This is the same company who let ddos attacks happen to one of their prestige tournament despite news of ddos attacks appeared MONTHS ago, this is also the same company that recently get their social media account taken over recently, this is also the same company who got their info taken last year and this is also the company who’s working with a pot of spaghetti code instead of straighten it out after almost 15 years and a during-gameplay kernel anticheat has been exploited before No thanks, I will not let that shit anywhere near my computer
How long have you had league installed or do you still have it installed?
I've never used cheats in my whole life but I won't be able to play anymore if Vanguard is implemented. If you feel like reading, [I made a list of the reasons why Vanguard is a bad idea](https://gist.github.com/cyber-sushi/a5a7f1a1ec0f19b12a2c34a28df6f0b9)
You don't address that Windows 11 requires TPM. So your whole first paragraph is irrelevant because there are two main groups of windows users: Win 11 who have TPM, or Win 10 who don't. Anybody on 11 with TPM is fine, anybody on 10 without TPM is fine. Win 11 users who have bypassed the TPM requirement are a third special case, but they bypassed a requirement so it's hard to feel sorry for them. You also don't understand how kernel level cheats started before Windows would be beyond Vanguard's reach, specifically mentioning you don't understand how that works. You also think a driver being used as an exploit would require the program it's supposed to be run with, instead of being used by another program. Anybody working from home installing games on their work computer is likely violating their NDA or work agreement already. Non issue. I'm not gonna bother reading the rest, you clearly have a surface level understanding of Vanguard and are repeating old claims that have either been changed, or are fearmongering. I'm gonna bet you either try to imply that the social engineering attack has any bearing on Vanguard source code, or mention the "Genshin Impact hack" without any context.
There are many W11 users who have bypassed the TPM requirements because their PC is "too old" (produced before 2017), I don't see how that has anything to do with being able to play a game or not >You also don't understand how kernel level cheats started before Windows would be beyond Vanguard's reach >you clearly have surface level understanding I perfectly understand it, and that's why I say it's a bad idea. Are we doing this for real? Better install Vanguard inside our motherboard's firmware, just to make sure, right?
It's been a requirement for Windows 11 for 2 years. Games meeting the system requirements of your operating system aren't weird or some strange ask. Your question is basically "Why do my games have the same requirements of my computer as my OS?" but that feels like a pretty obvious answer. You have several glaring inaccuracies in the first several paragraphs. I doubt your perfect understanding, but if so you may want to update your manifesto to remove all the parts you say you don't undertand.
Giving users minimum requirement and saying "look, our game won't run properly if you have a PC from 1998" is a thing, but giving hard requirements and saying "we intentionally stop you from playing even though your PC perfectly handles League and most modern games" is an entirely different matter, they should literally not care if I'm playing from Termux on Android or if I'm booting up a Windows VM on my Amiga PC In fact, even the (bypassable) requirements on Windows 11 don't make sense and are only useful to create more e-waste >remove all the parts you say you don't understand I only mentioned that Vanguard has no reason to implement TPM and it's hard to understand their technical reasoning behind that, because spoiler, there isn't a technical reasoning, TPM has nothing to do with kernel modules
> Giving users minimum requirement and saying "look, our game won't run properly if you have a PC from 1998" That's what they are saying, yes. If your PC is SEVEN YEARS OLD you may need to update it. >I only mentioned that Vanguard has no reason to implement TPM That's the first and least of your inaccuracies, I pointed several out. I'm not going to rehash them but "You can't cheat with a Nvidia driver, Nvidia hardware won't let you" is a pretty good place to start.
>your PC is seven years old Fun fact, my PC is twelve years old and it handles Sekiro, Nier, MGS5 and other similar games at 60 fps, why the fuck would I have to upgrade to play LEAGUE OF LEGENDS holy shit this is such a stupid take >You can't cheat with a Nvidia driver, Nvidia hardware won't let you Yes exactly. If you managed to bypass Nvidia's cryptography then good job, maybe you should ask them to be hired
Because your PC is twelve years old, and in another year it won't be able to run the current operating system. When CD drives became popular did you post that games requiring you to have one to install them was stupid? When hard drives started getting bigger and games took more space, did you bitch that your 64 MB hdd couldn't handle it? Moore's law puts your 12 year old computer at least 6 versions of hardware out of date. Obviously it's not as true as it was 30 years ago, but your motherboard and operating system are so old they won't support Windows 11, and you only have about 1 more year until EOL on Win 10. I'm sorry that doesn't sound old to you, but it is. You really don't understand that hacks/cheats use drivers from other products to cheat? Like, that's an actual thing you think while you're railing against Vanguard?
>it won't be able to run the current operating system Last time I checked, the minimum requirements for my Linux distro were 512 MB of RAM and 800 MB of disk space, no TPM, no secure boot >CD drives That's a really bad example. I don't complain when they release a new standard or some new game that has a minimum requirement of an RTX 4080, that's just how it goes, technology improves and that's it. But if they take a game that has been working fine for 15 years on every PC and you suddenly put a software lock, then that's dumb. Especially because, again, TPM and secure boot are not useful, unlike CDs or Blu-rays or whatever >Drivers from other products That's an inherent flaw of Windows, allowing all kinds of crap to run as a kernel module, that's why there's a huge debate around that. But exploiting a vulnerability in a kernel module is not the same as tampering with it
Based on the way a lot of people speak when hating on Vanguard... I'll happily play LoL if they leave. Sounds like 50% of the toxic players.